Simple Poll Question - Should Bruce Start

[PeterBurns]

Working on a idea, want to get some #'s to back it up.
Simple Poll Question. Should Bruce Bowen Start?

[Muser]

Rotation
Parker/Hill
Mason/Ginobili
Bowen/Finley
Duncan/Gooden
Thomas/Oberto

Bonner/Vaughn/Udoka get garbage minutes

Yes Bruce should start.

[kace]

start or not, he should see more minutes.

[SA210]

Yes, he should start.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121778

[PeterBurns]

TP, Manu, Duncan, Bowen, Thomas

Bench: Finley, Mason, Bonner, Gooden, Hill

Break in case of Emergency: Vaughn/Udoka/Oberto

Backup PG. 1) Manu, 2)Hill 3)Mason

Finley, Bonner, and Mason are heat check guys, either they have it or don't. Rotate them in and see who's the hot hand.

[bbarry]

Not play at all: until the playoffs that is.

[Old School 44]

The thing about Bruce, is even if he's lost a step, he's still an irritating defender.
Guys might go for 30+ on him, but to me the beauty in his defense isn't so much of a stopper as it is to take a guy off his game. Get in their head, so they take it personal and start playing one on one vs. a team game. He's the closest thing we have to a goon/enforcer. I think you need someone with that edge on your team getting significant minutes. I also think his defensive intensity inspires others. I'd like to see him and G. Hill on the floor at the same time.

[PeterBurns]

Got to realize the TV people aren't going to say anything.
We've been very critical of the decision that last 2 weeks on my show.

Newspaper and radio people are the only thing. On TV, if Pop makes an announcer look stupid, there's evidence..... :)

Spurs run a very tight ship. Part of the reason for their success, is that they are there to play basketball, not be a media darling.

[Indazone]

Only problem with playing Bowen is that he can't score much. Against the Lakers who can score from every position, that is a hinderance. Be that it may, Bowen being a great defender, if you take the Lakers who also play good defense and score in boatloads, at the end of the day you still have to put more pts on the board. That being said, I do think that you have to put Bowen on Kobe Bryant for lots of minutes.

[SA210]

The thing about Bruce, is even if he's lost a step, he's still an irritating defender.
Guys might go for 30+ on him, but to me the beauty in his defense isn't so much of a stopper as it is to take a guy off his game. Get in their head, so they take it personal and start playing one on one vs. a team game. He's the closest thing we have to a goon/enforcer. I think you need someone with that edge on your team getting significant minutes. I also think his defensive intensity inspires others. I'd like to see him and G. Hill on the floor at the same time.

[Dex]

One of Bowen's best attributes used to be the fact that he could come out at the start of the game, blanket one of other team's best players, and keep them from getting a rhythm. That would cause teams to start stepping outside their comfort bubble, and usually affected the rest of the opponent's offense.

Bruce can't do that if he's not even coming into the game until the 2nd quarter. If you let a guy like James or Bryant get rolling, not even elite perimeter defenders can stop that momentum. You've got to get them out of their groove from the beginning, and Finley is allowing the exact opposite to happen.

[honestfool84]

there should have been an option that said : "Bench, more than 20 minutes."

that would be my personal preference.

[EricB]

Start 20 + especially against Portland, Utah, or new Orleans in the first round...

[Marcus Bryant]

Pop is prepping for life after Bruce at this point. He's gone, people.

[xtremesteven33]

Pop is prepping for life after Bruce at this point. He's gone, people.



If thats the case its a dumb choice. What happened to preparing to win now??

He knows this is the last year we have a chance to compete as the same unit but he wants to bench Bowen who IMO gives us the best chance to compete if hes a starting player??


BullShit

[z0sa]

there should have been an option that said : "Bench, more than 20 minutes."

that would be my personal preference.

bowen coming off the bench is almost worse than just not playing him. He's older and needs to immediately play after pregame warmups. Additionally, allowing the most potent offensive players in the universe anything easy (which is exactly what Finley does) feeds their confidence and gets them rolling, so that its nigh impossible for Bowen to do his thing anymore.

You'll notice back when Pop wasn't a raging alcoholic, Bruce generally stuck like glue from the getgo to their best scorer, being switched about to other players he generally doesn't guard should they get going. This is the only scenario, in my opinion, when Bowen not guarding their best perimeter scorer is the right decision - when he already has the best scorer out of rhythm, and another player is stepping up in his place. Otherwise, Bowen coming off the bench or in spot minutes to 'cool down' opposing scorers is futile. Defense must be applied in great pressure from the opening tip for a guy like Kobe or LeBron.

[superbigtime]

TP, Manu, Duncan, Bowen, Thomas

Bench: Finley, Mason, Bonner, Gooden, Hill

Break in case of Emergency: Vaughn/Udoka/Oberto

Backup PG. 1) Manu, 2)Hill 3)Mason

Finley, Bonner, and Mason are heat check guys, either they have it or don't. Rotate them in and see who's the hot hand.

Bruce could definitely start, but Mason has altered has role IMO. I think I would like to see most of Mason's minutes in second half, that's when he seems to play better. I still like Manu coming off the bench. Gooden should play with Manu and/or Tim. bonner is getting too many minutes, would like to see his PT got to Gooden and Fab too if his condition is okay. Manu obviously can play backup point...no idea why Pop has useless JV playing with Manu lately. It just hurts the team.

[SA210]

One of Bowen's best attributes used to be the fact that he could come out at the start of the game, blanket one of other team's best players, and keep them from getting a rhythm. That would cause teams to start stepping outside their comfort bubble, and usually affected the rest of the opponent's offense.

Bruce can't do that if he's not even coming into the game until the 2nd quarter. If you let a guy like James or Bryant get rolling, not even elite perimeter defenders can stop that momentum. You've got to get them out of their groove from the beginning, and Finley is allowing the exact opposite to happen.

[Spursfan092120]

Working on a idea, want to get some #'s to back it up.
Simple Poll Question. Should Bruce Bowen Start?
Pe-ter, Pe-ter, Pe-ter, Pe-ter, Pe-ter

[SA210]

TP, Manu, Duncan, Bowen, Thomas

Bench: Finley, Mason, Bonner, Gooden, Hill

Break in case of Emergency: Vaughn/Udoka/Oberto

Backup PG. 1) Manu, 2)Hill 3)Mason

Finley, Bonner, and Mason are heat check guys, either they have it or don't. Rotate them in and see who's the hot hand.

:toast I agree with this

[DPG21920]

Was there any post game quotes from yesterday's game? Did anyone ask Pop about Bruce?

[Obstructed_View]

It's funny that Ime Udoka has shown that he can't play, but he keeps getting chances. Finley can't play defense, but he keeps getting chances. JV can't do shit if he's not handling the ball, but he gets shooting guard duties, but Bruce Bowen, who has done so much for this team, can't get minutes against the best player in the league because he started out poorly at the beginning of the season??

[SA210]

It's funny that Ime Udoka has shown that he can't play, but he keeps getting chances. Finley can't play defense, but he keeps getting chances. JV can't do shit if he's not handling the ball, but he gets shooting guard duties, but Bruce Bowen, who has done so much for this team, can't get minutes against the best player in the league because he started out poorly at the beginning of the season??

:bang

[PeterBurns]

Pe-ter, Pe-ter, Pe-ter, Pe-ter, Pe-ter

I'd like to get to at least a 100 votes for a sample size.
Bump :wakeup

[SA210]

I'd like to get to at least a 100 votes for a sample size.
Bump :wakeup

I'm on board. Start Bruce 20+ min. :flag:

Did you see the RoundTable? It was ridiculous.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121916

[silverblackfan]

I think this will be an overwhelming, "Yes! He should start."
Bruce played last night and looked fine. He certainly did not look like they had to hook him up to oxygen to be able to play. Bruce is fine. Hopefully his minutes increase now that he PO are approaching.

[lakersuck]

Starting lineup needs to be
TP
TD
Bruce
Gooden
Mason/Finley

& Rounding out the rotation
Manu
Thomas
Hill

Bonner will turn into a useless pussy in the POs & doesnt need to see the floor unless we are in desperate need of a 3
JV has no business on the court in the 1st place, wtf is he ahead of hill?
Udoka... dont think so

[silverblackfan]

TP, Manu, Duncan, Bowen, Thomas

Bench: Finley, Mason, Bonner, Gooden, Hill

Break in case of Emergency: Vaughn/Udoka/Oberto

Backup PG. 1) Manu, 2)Hill 3)Mason

Finley, Bonner, and Mason are heat check guys, either they have it or don't. Rotate them in and see who's the hot hand.

Funny, but this seems to be the popular line up. I wonder why we don't ever see it in all the 'experiments' that Pop has pulled? It seems to be at least one you would try out. Weird, eh?

[SA210]

Funny, but this seems to be the popular line up. I wonder why we don't ever see it in all the 'experiments' that Pop has pulled? It seems to be at least one you would try out. Weird, eh?


Exactly

[MoSpur]

Yes

[ulosturedge]

Sure why not. We can't get any worse then we already are. Honestly we aren't going to win a championship the way we are right now. So I say even rest Duncan rest of season if he is really hobbling which is how it seems and let Gooden get the majority of minutes. I say let Hill backup PG the rest of the way too. I don't care if we drop down to 8th. Its time to take some chances and see what happens. We ain't winning in our current status like I said anyways.

[PeterBurns]

23 more votes to go. Unless Mouse starts voting, and then I'll have a way more than needed

[SPURS50]

Bowen needs to start, anyone think pop has thought about it?

[MaNu4Tres]

All of this is irrelevant with Tim's knee's turning 94 next week.

We go as Tim goes.

[SA210]

23 more votes to go. Unless Mouse starts voting, and then I'll have a way more than needed

:lol I thought of the same thing.

[HarlemHeat37]

I've posted this before..Bowen's great games since January..not good or above average games(he's had a bunch of those too), but GREAT games he's had..

vs. Houston: completely shut down Artest after he was dominating us..too bad Pop didn't bring him in until the 4th..his ball denial was a thing of beauty..

vs. Minnesota: played an all-around great defensive game..did a great job on both Gomes and Foye..

vs. Boston: completely shut down Paul Pierce, including a memorable weak side block..

vs. Portland: shut down Brandon Roy, annoyed him all game..

vs. Detroit: vintage Bowen in this game..one of his best of the season..

vs. NJ: shut down Carter, after Vince was dominating our entire D..

vs. NO: played only the entire 2nd quarter, but obviously it ended up being New Orleans lowest point total by quarter and FG% by quarter for the game..

vs. Utah: came in and completely shut down Mehmet Okur, after Okur was dominating us for the first 3 quarters..

vs. LA: played solid D against Kobe, making him go 4-11..Pop doesn't put him on Kobe the rest of the game though..

vs. NJ: shut down VC again..

vs. Indiana: very solid performance against Danny Granger..

vs. Chicago: held Ben Gordon scoreless for the last 10 minutes of the game..

vs. Miami: played great D on Wade, forced a lot of turnovers, got him off his game..

vs. Memphis: played great D on both Mayo and Gay..actually, in all the Memphis games this season, they've managed to dominate all of our defenders outside of Bowen IIRC..

I'll expand it to the rest of the season..

vs. Memphis: played great all-around D on everybody, and completely shut down Rudy Gay..one of his better games this season..

vs. NO: forced 3 turnovers in his 15 minutes of playing time..was by far the best defender on the team during this game..

vs. Dallas: arguably his best performance of the season..he shut down Dirk down the stretch, including a memorable block..he played great D on Terry and Barea..had a +21 impact, which led the team..

vs. Denver: one of the best Bowen performances I've ever seen..he fucked with Carmelo Anthony's head in a major way..he forced Anthony into 5 turnovers, including multiple offensive fouls..Anthony picked up a technical foul out of clear frustration with Bowen's antics..

vs. Chicago: was able to play great D on Derrick Rose..a young, extremely athletic and quick PG..

vs. Memphis: shut down Mayo, forcing him to 3 points in the 1st half..Mayo's stats looked good in the 2nd half, but the game was out of reach when he was able to do his damage..


YES he's had some bad games, particularly against Durant and Joe Johnson..but it's impossible for a defensive player not to have some bad games..he's also playing an extremely difficult role, which is to come in the game and be a fire extinguisher..that's extremely tough to do against great scorers..

sure, he's lost a step..but he's still a good defensive player, and he's certainly better than our other options..I can probably count less than 5 great defensive games from Finley and Udoka combined..

there's absolutely no reason for him not to play..it's not like Ime gives us better offense..the only thing he does better than Bowen is pass the ball..Bowen makes 3s better, and he has much better shot selection..

Finley is obviously a better option offensively, but he's inconsistent as fuck..

I might have made a few mistakes in the research, but I doubt it, so doubters can look it up..I wouldn't make this shit up..I love Bowen, but I'm a Spurs fan before anything..so if I felt like he wouldn't help the team, I wouldn't want him on the floor..he clearly does help the team though..

[SA210]

So far it looks like,

83.95% for Bruce Starting
16.05% not for Bruce starting

[The Great Fantastic]

The thing about Bruce, is even if he's lost a step, he's still an irritating defender.
Guys might go for 30+ on him, but to me the beauty in his defense isn't so much of a stopper as it is to take a guy off his game. Get in their head, so they take it personal and start playing one on one vs. a team game. He's the closest thing we have to a goon/enforcer. I think you need someone with that edge on your team getting significant minutes. I also think his defensive intensity inspires others. I'd like to see him and G. Hill on the floor at the same time.

I agree with this whole heartedly. Bowen is an irritant. He's the RASH!!!! He pokes and prods and kicks and slaps and hits and trips and knees you in the nuts and kicks you in the face and steps on your achilles heel and steps under you when you are taking a jump shot. Even if Bowen has lost a step or two or three....he is better than what you are putting out there. Pop's philosophy has always been that you win a game with defense. What the hell is going on? Put Bowen on the court and let him make it uncomfortable for the premier perimiter player. Whether it's Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Durant, put Bowen on the court and let him slap a bitch around.

I am in no way condoning the slapping of a "bitch." I would never refer to a woman as a "bitch", nonetheless, others might. I just wanted to clarify that.

What I do condone is Bruce Bowen completely getting into the head of the top opposing perimiter player. We didn't lose last year because of Bowen.
At least give us the opportunity to witness for ourselves if he is truly incapable of doing it anymore.

I like Michael Finley. He seems like a great guy. It's truly a disservice to put Finley in this role at this stage in his career. Not only to the team but to the individual. Give him an impossible task and say "Go n get 'em, Tiger!" I don't get it. Bring Finley in off the bench and tell him to fire away. He's not in the game for defense, even though he does give an admirable effort on most nights. He's just not built to stay with most other small forwards.

[Obstructed_View]

And the whole discussion is rendered moot with one press release...

[SA210]

I still say Bruce should start!

[sook]

No. Simple answer, he shouldn't start against the rockets especially