You can’t expect the Spurs to be the same forever,

[Yogurt210]

:flag:

It is very clear after last post-season, and this whole season, that Spurs are on their way down the hill.
The dynasty stood strong for a very firm ten years. The Duncan-era is now coming to a slow close.
Granted, the Spurs are not completely in the dark hole of the abyss yet, we can still compete, but we don’t have what it takes to be a very consistent and solid contender for another ring. The Spurs are very off from what they have been a couple years back. I’m in no way jumping off the ledge or calling quits for my team, I’m just realizing that great things don’t last forever. It’s reality. Spurs fan have become very spoiled and very laid-back, we expect our team to win, we expect them to do great every game and if they don’t we become very upset. Given our lack-luster energy at homegames. We want this to last forever with little or no change. Time and age kicks everybody in the butt and it seems it has finally crept up on the Spurs whether you like it or not. Manu’s body can only take so much after playing all those season/post-seasons/Olympics etc. Duncan knee’s have always posed a small problem and as he becomes older it gets harder for him to fully rest them up and recover. Out of our big three, Tony is the only one that is still in great condition. Out of our big three we are a below average team. Without our big three fully operational, we don’t stand a great chance with the other top contenders, Maybe we need to get some players to compliment Tony. Come 2010 I expect the Spurs organization to make some changes, some of those changes will probably include letting go of players we loved for so long. It’s all part of the business, expect it. So to shorten this up, enjoy and love Spurs for who they are and all the great times the players in the Duncan-era have given us. You never know, you might see them on another team in a few years.

:flag:

[SenorSpur]

I agree with your post for the most part. The only way to have staved off this decline was a gradual infusion of young talent. We thought this was happening. However, that's not the case. It's not surprising considering how little Pop trusts rookies and how much he relys on vets - almost to a fault. Now with his stubborn insistence on relying on those end-of-career vets, and with health issues of both Duncan and Manu, for now it would seem the Spurs are primed for a premature playoff exit.

The one thing I would disagree with is the wait for 2010. This organization cannot wait that long. They MUST get younger and more athletic at certain positions. It's long overdue. There will be gradual changes needed immediately at the conclusion of this season. I expect some mild roster changes, with at least 2-3 new spots, possibly even 4.

Unless the do what should have been done about 2 seasons ago, they will continue an inevitable decent down the standings and end up like PHX and DAL - fighting for an 8th seed in the playoffs.

[Yogurt210]

^ very true

[Bukefal]

Good post, I agree with players getting older, their times as superstars getting over. But I don't think this is the end, nor do I think we are on the hill down yet. As for this season, spurs were on 2nd spot long time and still can grab it. Spurs do have a chance in the playoffs, so long we get in (which we did) everything can happen in the playoffs. And yes it's going to be time for the spurs to focus on young talented players to strengthen the team along side TP, but changes are good!

[TampaDude]

While other teams are getting younger, the Spurs are getting older...experience is great, especially in the playoffs, but sooner or later, youth and athleticism will prevail. The Spurs don't need to blow up the team, they just need to get a few different pieces and they'll be back in top form. Just gotta make the right moves, Pop!

[Borosai]

We can and should expect a proven system to continue working by replenishing it. How? By developing young talent who fit the system. Right now, it would be really nice to have guys such as Hill, Hairston, and even Gist in the mix - as true parts of the team - but that's not the case. Instead, the Spurs are in the same situation as last year (inconsistent offense), but with more injuries and less defense. And that won't change until they develop new players.

[xtremesteven33]

While other teams are getting younger, the Spurs are getting older...experience is great, especially in the playoffs, but sooner or later, youth and athleticism will prevail. The Spurs don't need to blow up the team, they just need to get a few different pieces and they'll be back in top form. Just gotta make the right moves, Pop!


Rasheed Wallace and a young wing player

[TampaDude]

Rasheed Wallace and a young wing player

Knowing the Spurs' proclivity for grabbing veteran players, I expect to see Sheed in a Spurs uniform next season. What he'll bring to the team remains to be seen, but he is a force on the basketball court.

BTW, how the fuck is JV still on the team??? Does he have incriminating photos of Pop or something??? :lol

[Dr. Gonzo]

Fantastic thread!

:tu

[Yogurt210]

Rasheed Wallace and a young wing player


I’m sorry to say, but going with Rasheed Wallace is pretty much the same direction. He is only good for short term, and he too is getting old.
I say go with the young guys, players like an OJ Mayo, Brandon Roy etc. Players with that kind of potential would be great. J

[Libri]

I.E. get rid of Finley (which they should of done last yr), Udoka (which they should of done last yr), JV (which they should of done last yr), and Bowen. They are over the hill and don't have it anymore (JV never did). MAKE A SHOT ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bang

I have a feeling that Pop might want to keep Udoka, just because he's the youngest of the four.

[xtremesteven33]

I’m sorry to say, but going with Rasheed Wallace is pretty much the same direction. He is only good for short term, and he too is getting old.
I say go with the young guys, players like an OJ Mayo, Brandon Roy etc. Players with that kind of potential would be great. J



:lmao

Realistically dude....haha

[Josepatches_]

What we really need is a new franchise player.We can't win the NBA without one of the best NBA players and right now we are far away to have one of them if TD can't feel better.

Magic,Jordan,Olajuwon,Duncan,O'Neal,Wade.....

Only Detroit and Boston won the NBA the last 20 years without IMO one of the top5 players in the NBA.
Right now we don't have one of those top5 players in the NBA and we are not going to have it next year either

[new_N_town]

duncan is 0nly 33..malone retired when he was 40..and even at that age he was averaging close to 20 ...duncan is fine cant say the same bout manu.....

[new_N_town]

Please don't keep that guy. He is a waste of a roster space. He's had one good game in the 60 or so he's played in. That's a shitty ratio, but knowing Pop he would keep him. He does play JV instead of Hill and Mason at PG when Manu is in the game. MAKE A SHOT SPURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lol u forgot oldburto :blah:blah he needs 2 go aswell

[duncan228]

duncan is 0nly 33..malone retired when he was 40..and even at that age he was averaging close to 20 ...duncan is fine

Duncan is not fine. He's got a chronic problem with his left knee, and tendonosis, which is degenerative, in his right. Neither are going to go away or get remarkably better. The tendonosis might feel better after an off season of rest, but it will be back when he starts playing again next season.

It's a matter of how he feels on any given night, and how well he can play through pain.

[Yogurt210]

:lmao

Realistically dude....haha

anything is possible

manu for roy

it can be done :)

[new_N_town]

Duncan is not fine. He's got a chronic problem with his left knee, and tendonosis, which is degenerative, in his right. Neither are going to go away or get remarkably better. The tendonosis might feel better after an off season of rest, but it will be back when he starts playing again next season.

It's a matter of how he feels on any given night, and how well he can play through pain.

do you really think its time to close the book on duncan?? :wow:wow:wow

now im sad:(

[rascal]

Manu is a broken down player on the downside, now with what seems to be chronic ankle problems. They should have traded him at the end of the 2007 season like I said instead of standing pat with the team they had.

[TMTTRIO]

anything is possible

manu for roy

it can be done :)

Why would they trade an upcoming star in this league for someone who's career is coming close to an end? No way in the world would that happen.

[duncan228]

do you really think its time to close the book on duncan?? :wow:wow:wow

now im sad:(

I'm not closing the book. I just don't think he's going to play until he's 40. IMO this contract is it, he'll retire at the end of it.

Duncan is injured and it's not going to 'heal'. He has proven he can play through pain, but I think the knees have had more impact on his game than the ankles or the Planter Fasciitis did.

I believe in him, if he can rise he will. We'll know soon how much his knees are going to take from his game.

[Yogurt210]

Well, on the goodside.
Pop made Bonner look good, for awhile. Great 3 point shooter big-man. Few teams might want him.
Gooden looks good, maybe because he is the only one on our team that can still dunk lol, so teams may want him.
Mason still has time to freshen up his game and look good before the end of the season, making more teams want him.
Manu needs to stay un-injured, I’m sure plenty teams want him.
TD, which team doesn’t want him? But I’m pretty sure he’s a Spur for life.
TP most likely will stay in SA for another few years. But teams would kill for him.
Finley can still play the vet roll. Couple teams may like him.
Bowen can also play the vet role still and is still a great defender. Def. not in his prime tho.
KT is a vet player still. Not sure who would want him though.
Oberto has a couple of health issues. Very concerning.

But How do we get rid of IME,JV? Haha. Just waive them fools.

We still have good trade value, but in order to get something good back. We will need to trade one of the big three.
Anything is possible

[Yogurt210]

Why would they trade an upcoming star in this league for someone who's career is coming close to an end? No way in the world would that happen.

why would a team trade pau gasol for scrubs?
haha..anything can happen

[tlongII]

You just need to suck bad for a year or two and then make good choices at the top of the draft.

[Yogurt210]

or make really good trades

[George Gervin's Afro]

Assuming this is the beginning of the end, what a hell of a ride!

:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

[Morg1411]

Nice thread, and I agree that we need some changes...maybe not a complete overhaul, but bring in another bigman (we need to steal Al Jefferson from Minnesota or Brooke Lopez from New Jersey) and another young perimeter player.

This has been a crazy year. I'm happy that our team is still competitive. Lots of other teams would kill for our record and our overall stability as a franchise. I've always admired the fact that the Spurs don't rattle, don't shake under pressure and remain consistent. That being said, some change is needed (more change than what Pops is usually comfortable with).

[LongtimeSpursFan]

:flag:

It is very clear after last post-season, and this whole season, that Spurs are on their way down the hill.
The dynasty stood strong for a very firm ten years. The Duncan-era is now coming to a slow close.
Granted, the Spurs are not completely in the dark hole of the abyss yet, we can still compete, but we don’t have what it takes to be a very consistent and solid contender for another ring. The Spurs are very off from what they have been a couple years back. I’m in no way jumping off the ledge or calling quits for my team, I’m just realizing that great things don’t last forever. It’s reality. Spurs fan have become very spoiled and very laid-back, we expect our team to win, we expect them to do great every game and if they don’t we become very upset. Given our lack-luster energy at homegames. We want this to last forever with little or no change. Time and age kicks everybody in the butt and it seems it has finally crept up on the Spurs whether you like it or not. Manu’s body can only take so much after playing all those season/post-seasons/Olympics etc. Duncan knee’s have always posed a small problem and as he becomes older it gets harder for him to fully rest them up and recover. Out of our big three, Tony is the only one that is still in great condition. Out of our big three we are a below average team. Without our big three fully operational, we don’t stand a great chance with the other top contenders, Maybe we need to get some players to compliment Tony. Come 2010 I expect the Spurs organization to make some changes, some of those changes will probably include letting go of players we loved for so long. It’s all part of the business, expect it. So to shorten this up, enjoy and love Spurs for who they are and all the great times the players in the Duncan-era have given us. You never know, you might see them on another team in a few years.

:flag:


Im not sure if I completely agree with your post. Up until a couple of weeks ago the Spurs were the number 2 seed in a very competitive Western Conference. And with numerous injuries we were still able to overcome a slow start.
We have added some new younger players that have made some big contributions this year in Mason and Hill. Next year we can expect even more production from these two and a solid backcourt in both starters and reserves. The one player that really hurt us this year that we had drafted but elected to stay in Europe was Tiago Splitter. He would have provided excellent offensive skills and athleticism that we sorely lack in the middle.
Dont count out this Spurs unit yet. In fact, if I compared this unit to last years' team that made it to the Western Conference Finals I would say this team is more talented. We just havent figured out how to utiltize that talent yet.

[Yogurt210]

Im not sure if I completely agree with your post. Up until a couple of weeks ago the Spurs were the number 2 seed in a very competitive Western Conference. And with numerous injuries we were still able to overcome a slow start.
We have added some new younger players that have made some big contributions this year in Mason and Hill. Next year we can expect even more production from these two and a solid backcourt in both starters and reserves. The one player that really hurt us this year that we had drafted but elected to stay in Europe was Tiago Splitter. He would have provided excellent offensive skills and athleticism that we sorely lack in the middle.
Dont count out this Spurs unit yet. In fact, if I compared this unit to last years' team that made it to the Western Conference Finals I would say this team is more talented. We just havent figured out how to utiltize that talent yet.

It has been more than two weeks that Spurs have been looking bad. Inconsistency kills us. We now live and die by the three point shot. We hit more than 45% we win. We miss them, we lose. Not much more dimension to our jump shooting game, besides Tony slashing. Coaching and rotations have been horrible, line-ups jacked. Defensively we have not been there or pose a threat like the old days. Especially with Bonner as our Center. We may have been number 2, but we are not top contenders. Just a piece or two out of it. I’m not counting the Spurs out, anything can happen. But I am being realistic.

[Yuixafun]

Dallas was fun but Dirk should move to San Antonio. (a man can dream)

[sananspursfan21]

I’m sorry to say, but going with Rasheed Wallace is pretty much the same direction. He is only good for short term, and he too is getting old.
I say go with the young guys, players like an OJ Mayo, Brandon Roy etc. Players with that kind of potential would be great. J

if you want to shell out the money for those guys from your own budget, by all means, let's get brandon roy or o.j. in here. in the mean time, youth to us would mean somebody like andray blatche, ryan gomes, rashad mccants maybe ben gordon :toast

[HarlemHeat37]

wow, some of these ideas are ridiculous..

OJ Mayo, Brandon Roy, Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez LOL..how are we supposed to get these impact players?..

this team needs TWEAKING..not an overhaul, just TWEAKING..

Parker is in his prime, and Duncan will still be a top 5 big man next year..Ginobili is iffy, but he'll also be trade bait with his expiring contract..Bowen, JV, Oberto, and Ime will all be gone next year, since they're all non-guaranteed, or expire in the off-season..

if we don't trade Manu, our big 3 is still good enough to get it done..they just need help around them..

Hill will be more useful, since he won't be a rookie that Pop doesn't trust..Kurt will be a solid backup big man, Bonner will be a bench big man for offense..Finley will still be here sadly, but hopefully he won't play much(doubtful)..

this team has 2 glaring needs..an athletic SF, and another big man next to Duncan..

acquiring Rasheed Wallace would be great, but we would NEED a young big man off the bench to provide energy and athleticism to give our old bigs(Duncan, 'Sheed, KT) some rest..that's the only way signing 'Sheed would work..hopefully that big man comes in the form of Ian Mahinmi, if he can ever stay healthy..

the SF is going to be huge..Hairston is already lined up IMO..the fact that Pop actually give him opportunities in his rookie season is great for us, and he's already familiar with the system..an improved J should guarantee him a spot in the rotation IMO..if that doesn't work out, Gist is a possibility, or signing an athletic SF is a possibility..maybe a minor signing like a Matt Barnes or somebody(IIRC, he's a FA, but I could be wrong)..

this team needs health(Duncan, Manu, Ian) and a little tweaking, and we'll be fine..

[ploto]

When the Spurs decided not to bing back Horry and Barry, people thought it meant they would give some young guys the chance to develop in game situations, but that has not happened very much.

The Spurs organization has become content in knowing they will make the play-offs with Tim, Manu, and Tony.

[lakersuck]

a trade for stoudemire (sp?) for tim and manu?

I think it would be a good move for both teams, but i dont know if it is possible with no trade clauses and such, or if phoenix would entertain it, i thought they were looking to ship amare earlier this season?
The spurs could build around tony and stoudemire, two dominant players coming into the prime of their career.
& fans in phoenix could get hard thinking of a backcourt with duncan and shaq.
i know ill prolly catch a lot of shit for this especially considering it is the first time i post on here, but i just dont think that the big three have another championship in them and while i love timmy and manu, i think it might be better for the spurs as an organization to gamble for another chance at greatness then to start the slide into mediocrity, and eventually crap when tim is gone

[Yuixafun]

As long as who we pick up can defend.

Mase, Bonner and Good's offensive games with Hill improved (1 year done in the transition to PG hopefully frees his mind so he can use his skills, Bowen and Parker are perfect mentors for him), and our Big 3 healthy should score enough points to win.

The window is still open.

[HarlemHeat37]

a healthy Duncan is better than Stoudemire as a player, and it's not even really questionable, as we saw in the 1st half of the season..

a hobbled Duncan at 70% is a better defensive player than Stoudemire, which speaks volumes on how bad he is as a defensive player..not to mention that he doesn't rebound, he has a huge ego, he doesn't pass, he has no leadership abilities in any way..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

As long as who we pick up can defend.

The window is still open.

It won't matter if who we we pick up can defend or not because Pop isn't going to play them anyway. However, if the Spurs can pick up someone else who can shoot the 3 ball, then congratulations, we'll somehow inexplicably ask them to become our #1 perimeter defender, even if they don't have the tools for it. His sacrificing of offense for defense will be the team's undoing. It would be one thing if he sacrificed offense for defense and the team averaged 110 ppg, but the offense is only marginally better this year (and abandoned the team completely in recent weeks) and the defense has regressed to being the worst of the Popovich era.

The Spurs decline was bound to happen, but I can't help but feel it is happening at a faster rate due to Pop's substitution pattern driving this team into the ground.


The Spurs of 2008 looked VERY iffy going into the playoffs the final week of the season and they ended up going to the WCF despite having the hardest route in recent memory. I just hope Pop wakes up and fixes his rotation, because right now, all we're doing is accelerating our decline by playing all the wrong players at all the wrong times.

[lakersuck]

i agree that a healthy duncan is on a different plataue then stoudemire, but i dont think that we can get a healthy duncan for a whole season. i dont know how consistent amare is, but i remember last yr in the playoffs he was unstoppable.
irregardless, i think there needs to be a pretty big shakeup and trade at least manu for something, as i dont see his value rising in the future.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't disagree with trading Manu, it really depends on how he looks in the playoffs..his contract is going to be valuable, so we can get some good pieces..it would be difficult to see him go, since he's done so much for this franchise..but business is business..

[Yuixafun]

Has the time come so soon to cross that bridge?

[spursfan1000]

I agree, the Spurs can't be a championship contender every year. And for the Fans, yeah they do get upset when they lose (including me) it's just that we are so used to winning, it will take a while just to get used to the Spurs losing. We need to make some big trades this off season to get rid of our veterans and build us a real future. I mean trade Finley,Vaughn,Oberto,Thomas and possible Bowen/Manu. Even though I don't think they wont trade Manu there will always be a possibility.

[spursfan1000]

Also I would hate to see manu in a different jersey, but if it ever comes to that time I would cheer Manu on.

[Harry Callahan]

What a crummy Monday this turned out to be. A Basketball team can be a very fragile thing.

I made a point of seeing the Spurs with TD, MG, and TP on the floor at the same time at least once this year. I'm glad I did in Jan. About a month later, Manu is on the shelf and Duncan's knee's became chronic two weeks later.

The FO may try and give it one more shot with a lot of these guys next year - they deserve the chance given what the core has done. But I think we will see a very different roster in the Fall of 2010. Duncan and Parker may be around still, but everyone else may be gone in a little over a year.

Wow! This is inevitable for just about every squad. The Spurs have been able to play at an extremely high level for twelve years.

I will appreciate this era of Spurs BB for years to come. I NEVER thought the Spurs would win even one NBA title. They have four - that is more than EVERY NBA team outside of three (BOS, LAL. and CHI). That's a lofty spot folks.

May Manu have a restful off season. I know this setback is beyond disappointing and frustrating for a competitor like him. Keep in mind a little over a year ago Manu personnally whipped the Cleveland Cavaliers with a dominating performance in Cleveland. The Cavaliers did not beat a fully functioning Spurs team at all yesterday. Not even close.

My hope is there is another bullet in the chamber in the Fall. This year is now a formality. Too bad.