compassion.

[MannyIsGod]

Ken Rodriguez: Atlanta hostage saga revives memories of San Antonio case

Web Posted: 03/16/2005 12:00 AM CST


San Antonio Express-News

The male suspect wanted in a quadruple murder had a gun. The female hostage had a Bible.

Out of that confrontation in Duluth, Ga., over the weekend came a story that has prompted at least four book offers and one movie proposal.

The hostage, 26-year-old Ashley Smith, subdued an alleged killer. Over seven hours, she spoke kindly to her captor, read to him, cooked for him and talked him into letting her go, unharmed.

In the end, Smith succeeded where a police dragnet had failed. She led authorities to Brian Nichols, the most wanted man in Georgia.

Journalists in Atlanta are astonished. After one on CNN called the story "a miracle," I knew I had to satisfy 24 years of curiosity. I had to find the San Antonio woman who survived an abduction and led police to a serial killer, Stephen Peter Morin.

In December 1981, I saw a local TV news report about a hostage who had escaped after driving for hours with Morin in her car. I always wondered what took place inside that vehicle. The account is not found in Express-News computer archives. A search of microfilm also proved fruitless.

But at a men's breakfast over the weekend, a woman named Sandy Ross, unaware of events unfolding in Atlanta, told us the story. The following day, Ashley Smith gave an account that paralleled Margy Palm's abduction here almost a quarter century ago.

Initially fearful, Smith and Palm found peace. They shared their faith. They disarmed their captors. They were asked, "Are you an angel?"

"I'm no angel," Palm says she told Morin. "Just ask my husband."

Palm shared that anecdote with me on Tuesday. I checked this detail and others in her story against an audiotaped account she gave to a local church several years ago. What she told me is consistent with what she told the church, and is consistent with the public record of Morin's capture.

Her story begins in a Kmart parking lot on the city's North Side. As Palm recalls, Morin shoved a .38-caliber gun in her side and said, "I'm the guy that killed the girl at Maggie's. I cut out a man's heart in prison, and if you don't listen, I will kill you."

At Morin's direction, Palm climbed into her blue Chevy suburban and placed her hands under her legs. "I'm going to die," she recalls thinking.

Palm prayed. She says a vision of scriptures appeared. A picture of her hands resting on Morin's head followed. She sensed God leading her to touch Morin and quote the Bible, but she balked.

"I thought, how could God ask me to do that? Stephen told me he would kill me if I moved, and I could feel this gun pushing into my rib cage."

Finally, Palm summoned the courage to say, "I'm going to pray for you." Morin said, "No you're not."

Palm said, "Yes, I am," and placed her hands on his head. "I said, 'In Jesus name, I take authority over every demonic power in this man and every spirit trying to kill him and destroy me.' I was screaming it."

After she finished praying, Palm says, her fears vanished. Morin said, "Oh, no, I'm in the car with a religious freak."

Over the next several hours, a "freak" touched a felon's heart. As Smith did with Nichols in Atlanta, Palm showed Morin compassion. She bought him cigarettes, beer and a newspaper. She took him to a drive-through restaurant. She listened as he described how he hated himself.

Finally, Palm took Morin — a fugitive who had eluded the FBI for years — to a bus station in Kerrville and bought him a ticket to Fort Worth. Morin, Palm says, wanted to visit an evangelist whose tapes he had listened to in Palm's car.

At one point, Morin said he didn't know why, but he didn't feel like raping Palm. "I said, 'What you are feeling is God's love, and it's too powerful for your hate.'"

On the way to Kerrville, Palm recalls, Morin raised his hands and asked Jesus to forgive him. He began weeping and emptied the bullets from his gun into her purse.

Later that night, after Morin boarded the bus, Palm told police where to find him. She also gave them the bullets.

Morin was executed by injection in 1985. He once asked Palm, "Do you know why I didn't kill you? Because you weren't afraid."

Perfect love, Palm says, quoting the Scriptures, drives out all fear. It led to Morin's capture 24 years ago. And last weekend, it led to the arrest of an alleged killer.

[Useruser666]

Two quick questions.

Do you think anyone else has turned to religion in these types of situations and been killed anyway?

Do you think Morin should have been executed?

[NeoConIV]

On the way to Kerrville, Palm recalls, Morin raised his hands and asked Jesus to forgive him. He began weeping and emptied the bullets from his gun into her purse.

Later that night, after Morin boarded the bus, Palm told police where to find him. She also gave them the bullets.

Morin was executed by injection in 1985. He once asked Palm, "Do you know why I didn't kill you? Because you weren't afraid."

Perfect love, Palm says, quoting the Scriptures, drives out all fear. It led to Morin's capture 24 years ago. And last weekend, it led to the arrest of an alleged killer.

Morin's conversion is comforting. This is the kind of contrition if followed through, that will carry him to paradise, no matter how he died. And that is a GOOD thing.
But if Morin was previously a 'serial killer', then again, the death penalty in my opinion is the appropriate punitive measure. Maybe it was a bit tricky for the jury, who surely heard this story, but they still apparently still thought death was appropriate. I wonder how many people Morin killed? I'm sure that was a factor.

[bigzak25]

you know, i don't know what drives people to murder or rape, but i would venture a guess that it could be traced to people not giving a crap about that individual throughout his life......so finally, he runs into a person that seemingly does care....and one that will pray for him even with a gun in their ribcage...and it throws them for a loop.....that's the power of Jesus baby....

but still no gold star or cookie for the guy for NOT killing or NOT raping.

that's like that Chris Rock skit about people being proud about "taking care of their kids". Your supposed to gotdamnit. Your not supposed to kill or rape, you don't get a pat on the back for NOT doing it....and i'm glad the jury agreed.

[Shelly]

Honestly...and I'm not trying to stir up a debate here, but a lot of killers come from a super strict religious backgrounds. Kinda like the mother in Carrie, if you will.

I've read a lot of true crimes books and a lot of times that's their background. And then there are some that just have shitty backgrounds. However, and I may be wrong, I think Jeffrey Dahmer came from a normal background.

[bigzak25]

super strict, or super lenient, religious or atheist....i think these people sprout from households with some serious lack of love and most likely continued degradation.....

[MannyIsGod]

Chris, I NEVER support the death penalty.

And yes, I'm sure people have been killed while doing good things.

[Useruser666]

Chris, I NEVER support the death penalty.

And yes, I'm sure people have been killed while doing good things.

What about the other thread where you changed your mind for a split second?

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't support the death penalty at all. Go back and reread what I posted. Not feeling sorry for someone and supporting something are 2 different things.

[bigzak25]

do you support assisted suicide?

[Clandestino]

Nice.. It only took about 4 years to execute this guy.

[MannyIsGod]

Zak, yes. I believe a person has a right do decide to die, but not have it forced upon them.

[Useruser666]

So if they are given a choice of life in prison or death and they choose death is that ok?

[Clandestino]

this makes no sense...manny is arguing for the lives of these murderers and rapists, but he is PROCHOICE... we all know that it means a mother is given the choice to decide to kill her child or not... despicable manny... where is your compassion?

[bigzak25]

well man, and i'm sure you know where i'm going with this....

it is my belief that when a man chooses to murder or rape someone, they have chosen to die. it is a package deal in my mind. so all our courts do is assist in their suicide.

and frankly, if we could get this message out, and have more people believe in it, I think that WOULD be a very effective deterrent.

[Clandestino]

i'm still happy about the fact the courts only took 4 years to exectue this guy...

[bigzak25]

with today's video and dna technology, proof beyond a reasonable doubt is much more attainable. can people be setup? sure. is it failproof? of course not. do i hate those guys that ask questions in posts just to answer them? sure do.

but i can live with the system. at the end of the day, you cannot save everybody. and the last ones we need to worry about are the ones that don't even give a shit about themselves.....

[MannyIsGod]

You guys need to check out some of the cases reguarding the courts not even wanting to give these guys DNA evidence tests. Messed up shit.

Clandestino, a Fetus isn't a human being.

Sidenote: You wonder why I give you hell? Look at your post. You complain about the way I debate, but YOU are the one who can't keep it on an intelligent level

And I quote "I feel like a bug flew into my mouth"

[Clandestino]

You guys need to check out some of the cases reguarding the courts not even wanting to give these guys DNA evidence tests. Messed up shit.

Clandestino, a Fetus isn't a human being.

Sidenote: You wonder why I give you hell? Look at your post. You complain about the way I debate, but YOU are the one who can't keep it on an intelligent level

And I quote "I feel like a bug flew into my mouth"

sometimes dna evidence isn't necessary...like, nichols...i think his case should be open and shut... death penalty... could be done very quickly...

and how is saying your stances don't match up not being an intelligent post?

[bigzak25]

You guys need to check out some of the cases reguarding the courts not even wanting to give these guys DNA evidence tests. Messed up shit.



agreed. i hate anytime possible conclusive or irrefutable evidence is not allowed. whether it proves innocence or guilt.

[JoeChalupa]

A fetus is a human being in my book..but never mind, let's stay on the subject.

[Useruser666]

And I quote "I feel like a bug flew into my mouth"

HEY!!! What happens at Spurs games stays at Spurs games!!! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

I didn't say a damn thing, exept that.

BTW, Did LJ tell you that we sat about 10 people away from Priest Holmes? The one night I want the camera in my phone to take those 2 pictures and it's dead.

[2pac]

You guys need to check out some of the cases reguarding the courts not even wanting to give these guys DNA evidence tests. Messed up shit.

Clandestino, a Fetus isn't a human being.

So genetic evidence can save a criminal, but not a baby? Use that same DNA evidence on an unborn baby, and you will find out that they are, in fact, a human being. A baby will have its own blood type roughly three weeks after conception and has its own DNA from the moment of conception.

Scientifically, a fetus is a human being, because the most scientific and exact way to measure species is through DNA tests.

I own you Manny.

[MannyIsGod]

Are you telling me that everytime you make a new and unique DNA strand it's human? Becuase then there's a lot of procreation going on in labs.

Try again Tom.

[2pac]

Are you telling me that everytime you make a new and unique DNA strand it's human? Becuase then there's a lot of procreation going on in labs.

Try again Tom.

What defines a human? Scientifically, DNA does.

It isnt about looks or abilities - its about scientifically proving something is human.

Tell me then - what species and order is a fetus?
At what point is a fetus not alive?

[MannyIsGod]

Tom, you can go round and round in circles on this. It's an unwinable debate or it would hav been decided by now. You said that it was alive due to unique DNA. That's false, unique DNA can be created in a lab environment.

What makes a fetus alive? It's as alive as any other part of the body. Being able to survive as it's own being outside of the mother, thats where it gains human rights.

[Shelly]

:lmao

I didn't say a damn thing, exept that.

BTW, Did LJ tell you that we sat about 10 people away from Priest Holmes? The one night I want the camera in my phone to take those 2 pictures and it's dead.


My oldest said his son was in a few of his classes in the beginning of the year. Then he got switched to a different team. (The grades are divided up by teams for those who were thinking otherwise...:spin)

[Nbadan]

What defines a human? Scientifically, DNA does.

Humans share 90% of their DNA strands with dogs, cats, cows, and sheep. Does that make them mostly human and equally worthy of protection from harm? What separates humans is that we are satiate beings able to make competent, complex decisions and not just adhere to our most natural instincts.

[desflood]

Which would mean that we could actually kill babies, under the abortion stance, until 4 or 5 months. Until then, they live by instinct.

[Nbadan]

Which would mean that we could actually kill babies, under the abortion stance, until 4 or 5 months. Until then, they live by instinct.

As the law stands right now, doctors won't do an abortion after the first trimester (12 weeks) unless the woman's life is in danger for fear of getting sued or losing his medicl license.

[2pac]

Tom, you can go round and round in circles on this. It's an unwinable debate or it would hav been decided by now. You said that it was alive due to unique DNA. That's false, unique DNA can be created in a lab environment.

No - I said that DNA proves that a fetus is a human. It is alive due to the fact that it is not dead.


What makes a fetus alive? It's as alive as any other part of the body. Being able to survive as it's own being outside of the mother, thats where it gains human rights.
Not true at all. Someone on lifesupport has all the rights of a human, but they are not capable of life on their own. Life function on your own doesnt make you human or alive, because you can be both without life function on your own.
And a newborn baby cannot survive without outside care anymore than a fetus can. That doesnt make it not a human or not alive.


Humans share 90% of their DNA strands with dogs, cats, cows, and sheep. Does that make them mostly human and equally worthy of protection from harm?
Because something is similar, doesnt make them the same. Pigs are very similar to humans genetically, but they arent humans genetically. A fetus IS a human genetically. There is a huge difference and if you cant see it, it shows the lack of rational critical thought necessary to be a contributing member of society.


What separates humans is that we are satiate beings able to make competent, complex decisions and not just adhere to our most natural instincts.
Obviously this is not true, because a invalid vegatable has all the rights as you do. Someone mentally handicapped enough to not be able to make those competent, complex decisions are still considered human and given every right afforded to any other human.


As the law stands right now, doctors won't do an abortion after the first trimester (12 weeks) unless the woman's life is in danger for fear of getting sued or losing his medicl license.
State-by-state basis.

[2pac]

I love shutting you ignorant fools up with the facts.

[MannyIsGod]

You're taking special circumstances and trying to proove something by them. The only thing you are prooving is that there are exceptions to every rule.

Well, thanks Professor Tom.

Now, the million dollar question is that if the facts are so far in your corner as you as you want to believe why is it that the overwhelming majority of the scientific and medical communities are running to congress to declare abortion illegal?

[Nbadan]

Obviously this is not true, because a invalid vegatable has all the rights as you do. Someone mentally handicapped enough to not be able to make those competent, complex decisions are still considered human and given every right afforded to any other human.

Umm...good job. Proving my point.

When a species can make decisions to fight to live, this qualifies them as satient beings and thus represents life, given the choice, even the most handicapped person will fight to live, but as in the case of Terry Siavo, if they are determined to be so criticially brain damaged, with no hope of ever even partially recovering, their legal rights to even continue existing can and should be assigned to the closes living relative - in Siavo's case, her husband.

[2pac]

You're taking special circumstances and trying to proove something by them
No I'm not. I am proving that your definition of alive and human are faulty because they do not work.


Now, the million dollar question is that if the facts are so far in your corner as you as you want to believe why is it that the overwhelming majority of the scientific and medical communities are running to congress to declare abortion illegal?
I can't answer for anyone else. I know plenty of scientists and doctors that disagree with abortion.
The real million dollar question is why havent you been able to dispute any of my facts.


When a species can make decisions to fight to live, this qualifies them as satient beings
Satient is not a word. What are you trying to say? If you mean sentient, it means having sense perception, which a fetus has in the first trimester. If you mean something else that fits, I couldnt figure it out.


and thus represents life, given the choice, even the most handicapped person will fight to live
Are you aware that there are videos of abortion procedures where the fetus is fighting to get away from the suction device?

[MannyIsGod]

Tom, you have no facts. You have your opinion on when a human is actually a human and when it has seperate rights from the mother, but that view is not legaly recognized.


No - I said that DNA proves that a fetus is a human. It is alive due to the fact that it is not dead.

DNA proves that many things come from a human, but that is it.

If you want facts, here is one for you. The fetus is not legaly alive and abortion is not murder.

[MannyIsGod]

The day a 3 week old fetus can survive outside of the womb of the mother is the day I'll consider it a seperate human.

You can compare it to a person on life support, but as far as I know, thats not inside of a mothers womb.

[2pac]

The fetus is not legaly alive and abortion is not murder.
You have to rely on law, because you cant draw your conclusions from the facts.

The facts are there. A fetus is at no point dead. At no point is it anything but human. If you want to disagree with that, tell me what the fetus is scientifically.

Since you have absolutely no logical answer to those, you have to just rely on "it doesnt count because RvW said so."


The day a 3 week old fetus can survive outside of the womb of the mother is the day I'll consider it a seperate human.
A 3 week old new born cannot survive without constant attention either.

Why would you want to be a late adopter? Drag your feet behind in the face of facts? It is entirely possible that someday they will have external incubation tanks for babies, and if they are in those, it wont make them any less human. Sure, its a long stretch, but everything we have now would have never been believed 100 years ago.

You are taking the side of convienence over the side with the facts. Sad.


You can compare it to a person on life support, but as far as I know, thats not inside of a mothers womb.
I compared it for the express stated reason that being a full-functioning human capable of all capacities known by most people is not a pre-requisite for defining them as an alive human and affording them rights as such.

[MannyIsGod]

A 3 week old new born cannot survive without constant attention either.

Not inside the womb.

The fact remains that a first trimester fetus can't do that.

Let me know when thats not a fact.

[2pac]

Not inside the womb.

The fact remains that a first trimester fetus can't do that.

Let me know when thats not a fact.

YOu still havent answered why it matters what stage of development the baby is at. It is still alive, and it is still a human.