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Cry Havoc
04-07-2009, 03:31 PM
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/learn-how-to-invest/The-real-unemployment-rate.aspx?

An 8.5% unemployment rate is unmistakably bad. It's the highest rate since 1983 -- a year that saw double-digit unemployment, nearly 30 commercial bank failures and more than 15% of Americans living below the poverty line.

But the real national unemployment rate is far worse than the U.S. Department of Labor's March figure, announced today, shows. That's because the official rate doesn't include the 3.7 million-plus people who are reluctantly working only part time because of the poor labor market. And it doesn't include the workers who have given up scouring want ads for seemingly nonexistent jobs.

When those folks are added to the numbers, the unemployment rate rises to 15.6%. In March 2008, that number was 9.3%. The Bureau of Labor Statistics began tracking this alternative measure (.pdf file) in 1995.

"The situation out there is very grim," says Heather Boushey, a senior economist at the Center for American Progress, a left-leaning think tank. "We have seen the mounting of job losses faster than any point since World War II. I have never seen anything escalate this bad."

Even the Department of Labor's expanded unemployment measure doesn't fully capture how difficult the job market is for American workers. It doesn't include self-employed workers whose incomes have shriveled. It doesn't look at former full-time staff employees who have accepted short-term contracts, without benefits, and at a fraction of their former salaries. And it doesn't count the many would-be workers who are going back to school, taking on more debt, in hopes that an advanced degree will improve their chances of landing a job.

Here's another way to look at the unemployment figures: More than 5 million people have lost their jobs since the start of the recession in December 2007. And more than 13 million people are unemployed. That's the highest number the U.S. has seen since it began tracking unemployment after World War II. For every job out there, more than four people are competing for it, says Boushey.

Mitch Feldman has seen the results of such intense competition firsthand. As president of New York executive placement firm A.E. Feldman Associates, he has watched lawyers accept paralegal jobs after failing to find any companies that are hiring. He has seen Ivy League-educated financial professionals accept lower-paid contract work after searching in vain for banking jobs.

"When some of the big investment banking firms had layoffs a year ago, those people were looking for permanent jobs," but now they're taking six-month and yearlong contracts, says Feldman. "And they're competing with other contractors who were on contract before. More supply, less demand, and the prices go down."

Some unemployed workers have become so frustrated by the difficulty of landing a job that they're exiting the labor market altogether. Prior recessions saw a spike in the number of women choosing to be stay-at-home moms rather than continue to compete for work. This recession has seen a large spike in the number of laid-off men opting to become stay-at-home dads -- or at least stay at home.

Once people stop looking for work, they're no longer entitled to unemployment benefits.
Unemployment to worsen?
The employment situation on the horizon looks even worse. Typically, unemployment peaks six months to a year after the economy starts to recover, says Rebecca Blank, an economist with the Brookings Institution, a Washington, D.C., public policy think tank. Boushey believes the unemployment rate could reach double digits by the end of the year.

So, even if the recent stock market rally is a harbinger of economic recovery, that doesn't mean that unemployment rates will fall soon. Nor is an economic recovery a guarantee that unemployment will drop below 4%, as it did during the boom in 2000.

The way some economists see it, the U.S. has entered a downward spiral that could result in higher unemployment for the foreseeable future.

Right now, unemployment has helped fuel consumer cutbacks that have, in turn, pinched businesses' revenues. That has forced them to cut jobs in an effort to stem profit losses, continuing the cycle. Eventually, the hope is that government spending will employ more people and give businesses more revenue, leading to more spending and more hiring -- reversing the cycle.

But it might not happen that way. Spooked consumers, still reeling from an attack on all their assets, may simply not spend like they once did -- regardless of how much money the government pushes into the economy. Instead, they might save money in preparation for the tax increases they assume are inevitable or put it in safe assets like long-term Treasury bonds.

Businesses might also curb their spending. Instead of responding to sales increases with hiring, they could invest in relatively cheaper technology to replace eliminated positions.

Economists don't have to go back very far to find an example of a recovery that didn't push unemployment back to its prior lows. The lowest unemployment fell after the 2001 recession was 4.4% in December 2006 (it hit that number again in March 2007). That was significantly lower than the 6.5% high in 2003. But it wasn't close to the sub-4% rates seen in 2000.

That sort of recovery was what economists call a jobless recovery. "We weren't really growing wages and income for people in the bottom half of the economic distribution," says Alan Berube, an economist with the Brookings Institution.

-----------------------------------


This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Winehole23
04-07-2009, 03:44 PM
Depression-lite numbers for sure. In January the Fed projected 8.8% unemployment by the end of 2009.

Maybe we're just about to bottom out.

Marcus Bryant
04-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Fun with unemployment #s. And then there's the underemployment...

Cry Havoc
04-07-2009, 04:48 PM
Depression-lite numbers for sure. In January the Fed projected 8.8% unemployment by the end of 2009.

Maybe we're just about to bottom out.

I'd say the bottom out is still a year away.

BonnerDynasty
04-07-2009, 04:49 PM
Get ready for inflation and interest rates :lmao

Winehole23
04-07-2009, 04:50 PM
I'd say the bottom out is still a year away.Smilie-free sarcasm. My bad.

Wild Cobra
04-07-2009, 04:51 PM
Get ready for inflation and interest rates :lmao

Why are you laughing? I see the distinct possibility of troubled times like we had with president Carter.

BonnerDynasty
04-07-2009, 04:53 PM
Because just when these obamaclowns think the clouds have cleared and the light shall shine upon them, the next wave of the tsunami will arrive.

ChumpDumper
04-07-2009, 04:55 PM
Gotta love the board Republicans' glee at the thought of things getting worse.

BonnerDynasty
04-07-2009, 04:55 PM
glee at the thought?

Recognition of the inevitable my friend. Not based solely on the actions of Obama, but failed long-term fiscal responsibility from decades of political officials.

Funny thing about Natural Law and the current system America has set up...no one, not even politicians, can hide the truth and the effects of their actions forever. This is the beauty of life.

ChumpDumper
04-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Glee.

Cry Havoc
04-07-2009, 05:00 PM
glee at the thought?

Recognition of the inevitable my friend.

Funny thing about Natural Law and the current system America has set up...no one, not even politicians, can hide the truth and the effects of their actions forever. This is the beauty of life.

So are you saying it's Obama's fault? Because I stated even before he was elected that this was inevitable, and so did almost every Obama supporter on this site.

Only the repubs/conservative apologists stated that Obama is supposed to make everything better, so they can set him up for failure. Unfortunately, they are the only ones operating under such a black and white assumption.

So, which is it? Obama's fault or going to happen with or without him? Because if it's the latter, you're telling us stuff we already knew.

BonnerDynasty
04-07-2009, 05:02 PM
read the re-edit, of course it is not all obama's fault but he is taking this opportunity to grossly expand government control blah blah blah you've heard this song.

Going to be worse with these radical liberals who could care less about saving the America that once was, just as long as they can continue to craft the America they want.

ChumpDumper
04-07-2009, 05:02 PM
Why are you laughing? I see the distinct possibility of troubled times like we had with president Carter.It was morning in America after Carter killed inflation through Volcker, so I'm looking forward to that time.

BonnerDynasty
04-07-2009, 05:04 PM
It'd be so fucking easy to get the economy going again. That's what is so disgusting about these big government snakes.

Not fix what is coming our way, but help to create jobs and get people working again.

ChumpDumper
04-07-2009, 05:05 PM
It'd be so fucking easy to get the economy going again. That's what is so disgusting.:rollin:downspin::rolleyes:p::lmao

BonnerDynasty
04-07-2009, 05:08 PM
Why does government want to send people checks instead of just letting them not pay fed taxes for 1 year?

Why must they continue printing and fucking up our dollar, instead of letting the people keep their own money.

I know why, Chump will never know why. He will continue living in his big government ignorance faulting conservatives for their very existence as he goes through life blind and dumb.

ChumpDumper
04-07-2009, 05:10 PM
It'd be so fucking easy to get the economy going again.:drunk:spin:sequ:smchode:

Cry Havoc
04-07-2009, 06:43 PM
It'd be so fucking easy to get the economy going again. That's what is so disgusting about these big government snakes.

Not fix what is coming our way, but help to create jobs and get people working again.

By all means, get in there and fix it then.

Where's your doctorate in Economics? I'll be needing to see that now.

angrydude
04-07-2009, 07:24 PM
By all means, get in there and fix it then.

Where's your doctorate in Economics? I'll be needing to see that now.


lol.

The people with the doctorates of Economics are the people who got us in this mess.

Or would you argue that mainstream economic thought has succeeded?

Just because economists have orgasms over monetary policy doesn't mean its the smart thing to do.

Nbadan
04-07-2009, 10:39 PM
The people with the doctorates of Economics are the people who got us in this mess.

..it was unregulated free market capitalism that got us into this mess....choke on that....

MannyIsGod
04-07-2009, 10:58 PM
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad to watch some on the board (and those in the public eye as well) ask for the policies advocated by Herbert Hoover.

Nbadan
04-07-2009, 11:07 PM
Are you talking about the Reconstruction Finance Corporation?

Winehole23
09-09-2013, 11:12 AM
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2013/09/why-the-real-unemployment-rate-is-nine-or-ten-per-cent.html

boutons_deux
09-09-2013, 12:06 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gkqmyUv0FOk/Ui3owLZOcjI/AAAAAAAAb5o/SLAbtGKdsf4/s1600/EmployProjSept92013.jpg

boutons_deux
09-10-2013, 01:21 PM
Think the Job Market Still Stinks? You’re Right


The JOLTS data are a regular reminder that there is always a great deal of “churn” in the labor market.… Over the last year, an average of 4.3 million workers were hired every month and an average of 4.2 million workers either left their jobs voluntarily or were laid off every month. These hires and separations numbers, however, are currently very low; when the labor market is stronger, there is much more churn. For example, in 2006 and 2007, there were 5.3 million people being hired and 5.1 million people separating from their jobs (i.e., leaving their jobs or being fired) each month on average.


The reason the rate is so low? People are afraid to quit their jobs, and employed people looking for greener pastures are having trouble finding them. So the churn stalls.


In 2006 and 2007, nearly 3 million workers voluntarily quit their jobs each month. That dropped to a low of 1.6 million in September 2009. It has since increased somewhat, but is still extremely low. In June, 2.2 million workers voluntarily quit their jobs, a decline of 73,000 from May. Because leaving a job for a better opportunity can be an important way for workers to advance, this persistent depressed rate of voluntary quits represents millions of lost opportunities.


The new number for July: 2.3 million quit their jobs, a slight uptick but still well below the pre-recession rates. According to EPI, another section of the JOLTS report reveals a frustrating truth. “In today’s economy, unemployed workers far outnumber job openings in every major sector. … This demonstrates that the main problem in the labor market is a broad-based lack of demand for workers—not, as is often claimed, available workers lacking the skills needed for the sectors with job openings.”

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/think_the_job_market_still_stinks_youre_right/

boutons_deux
09-10-2013, 01:25 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Z92LVyD9DY8/Ui8sN7pkCjI/AAAAAAAAb64/R4WsSPosP2s/s1600/JOLTSJuly2013.jpg

angrydude
09-10-2013, 01:52 PM
http://www.shadowstats.com/imgs/sgs-emp.gif?hl=ad&t=1378475281


http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts

boutons_deux
09-10-2013, 03:29 PM
... but the Repugs say the Welfare Queens mooching of public assistance, living high, are lazy, even criminal, and won't go get one of those Ms of jobs widely available for the asking, so the Repugs plan to cut public assistance.

Winehole23
01-10-2014, 10:30 AM
http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/2014/01/10/Main-vs-U6-jobs.png
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101326426

Drachen
01-11-2014, 03:11 PM
Good trend

TDMVPDPOY
01-12-2014, 03:24 AM
how do you know the real rate when people cant even get benefits?

then there are clowns who cant qualify cause they have excess savings till its nil, then they can qualify for benefits..

how about those with plenty of investments making them money when they are unemployed, they cant access the benefits...

Big Empty
07-15-2016, 11:18 AM
so in Feb the unemployment rate was 4.9%. Libs will credit Obama and right wingers will say that the it false because one only has to work 15 hours a week to be considered employed vs 30 hours a week when Bush was in office. Did the full time hours change?

TDMVPDPOY
07-15-2016, 12:05 PM
30hrs is full time in america? wtf

thought it was 38hrs-40hrs...

Winehole23
12-30-2016, 09:38 AM
A striking implication of these estimates is that all of the net employment growth in the U.S. economy from 2005 to 2015 appears to have occurred in alternative work arrangements. Total employment according to the CPS increased by 9.1 million (6.5 percent) over the decade, from 140.4 million in February 2005 to 149.4 in November 2015. The increase in the share of workers in alternative work arrangements from 10.1 percent in 2005 to 15.8 percent in 2015 implies that the number of workers employed in alternative arrangement increased by 9.4 million (66.5 percent), from 14.2 million in February 2005 to 23.6 million in November 2015. Thus, these figures imply that employment in traditional jobs (standard employment arrangements) slightly declined by 0.4 million (0.3 percent) from 126.2 million in February 2005 to 125.8 million in November 2015.https://krueger.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/akrueger/files/katz_krueger_cws_-_march_29_20165.pdf

Winehole23
12-30-2016, 09:38 AM
via: https://economicfront.wordpress.com/2016/12/28/the-devastating-transformation-of-work-in-the-us/

CosmicCowboy
12-30-2016, 10:31 AM
30hrs is full time in america? wtf

thought it was 38hrs-40hrs...

It was historically 40 until the ACA redefined it as anyone over 30. The actual effect was some employees that had been"part time" getting 30+ hours a week got cut back to 28 hours a week to keep the part time classification. This was especially prevalent in retail jobs.

Winehole23
02-20-2017, 10:56 AM
class war commies at Commentary:



For an apples-to-apples look at America’s 21st-century jobs problem, we can focus on the 25–54 population—known to labor economists for self-evident reasons as the “prime working age” group. For this key labor-force cohort, work rates in late 2016 were down almost 4 percentage points from their year-2000 highs. That is a jobs gap approaching 5 million for this group alone.


It is not only that work rates for prime-age males have fallen since the year 2000—they have, but the collapse of work for American men is a tale that goes back at least half a century. (I wrote a short book last year about this sad saga.2 (https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/our-miserable-21st-century/#2)) What is perhaps more startling is the unexpected and largely unnoticed fall-off in work rates for prime-age women. In the U.S. and all other Western societies, postwar labor markets underwent an epochal transformation. After World War II, work rates for prime women surged, and continued to rise—until the year 2000. Since then, they too have declined. Current work rates for prime-age women are back to where they were a generation ago, in the late 1980s. The 21st-century U.S. economy has been brutal for male and female laborers alike—and the wreckage in the labor market has been sufficiently powerful to cancel, and even reverse, one of our society’s most distinctive postwar trends: the rise of paid work for women outside the household.


In our era of no more than indifferent economic growth, 21st–century America has somehow managed to produce markedly more wealth for its wealthholders even as it provided markedly less work for its workers. And trends for paid hours of work look even worse than the work rates themselves. Between 2000 and 2015, according to the BEA (http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9#reqid=9&step=1&isuri=1), total paid hours of work in America increased by just 4 percent (as against a 35 percent increase for 1985–2000, the 15-year period immediately preceding this one). Over the 2000–2015 period, however, the adult civilian population rose by almost 18 percent—meaning that paid hours of work per adult civilian have plummeted by a shocking 12 percent thus far in our new American century.https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/our-miserable-21st-century/

boutons_deux
02-20-2017, 10:59 AM
link?

Winehole23
02-20-2017, 11:01 AM
In Dreamland, his harrowing and magisterial account of modern America’s opioid explosion, the journalist Sam Quinones (http://www.samquinones.com/books/dreamland/) notes in passing that “in one three-month period” just a few years ago, according to the Ohio Department of Health, “fully 11 percent of all Ohioans were prescribed opiates.” And of course many Americans self-medicate with licit or illicit painkillers without doctors’ orders.

In the fall of 2016, Alan Krueger, former chairman of the President’s Council of Economic Advisers, released a study (https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/Documents/economic/conf/great-recovery-2016/Alan-B-Krueger.pdf) that further refined the picture of the real existing opioid epidemic in America: According to his work, nearly half of all prime working-age male labor-force dropouts—an army now totaling roughly 7 million men—currently take pain medication on a daily basis.

CosmicCowboy
02-20-2017, 08:01 PM
It's much more difficult to legally abuse hydrocodone than it used to be. They have pretty much fixed Dr. shopping with cross check data bases.

Splits
02-20-2017, 08:04 PM
It's much more difficult to legally abuse hydrocodone than it used to be. They have pretty much fixed Dr. shopping with cross check data bases.

Welcome back from rehab

CosmicCowboy
02-20-2017, 08:42 PM
Welcome back from rehab

:lol

Seriously, I go to a pain specialist and we were just discussing last week how the state data base now prevents doctor shopping.

SnakeBoy
02-20-2017, 10:15 PM
:lol

Seriously, I go to a pain specialist and we were just discussing last week how the state data base now prevents doctor shopping.

Did you tell him you like to wash them down with a 6 pack?

CosmicCowboy
02-20-2017, 11:21 PM
Not really a problem with only one or two but thanks for asking.

SnakeBoy
02-20-2017, 11:43 PM
Not really a problem with only one or two but thanks for asking.

I know, was just joking.

baseline bum
02-20-2017, 11:54 PM
Not really a problem with only one or two but thanks for asking.

I always pictured you as a hookers and blow kind of guy CC.