Trade Idea

[Rob123]

Disclaimer: This is a trade Manu thread.

Let me start by saying, I think Manu still has some good years left in him, and this injury is a minor set back. However, I dont think he's right for the Spurs anymore. I appreciate what he's done for this organization, and I even have one of his jerseys, he's one of my favorite players.

Unfortunately I dont think Manu is right for the Spurs anymore. He's a big contract, and someone we depend way to much on, and over the past two years he's been far too fragile to be that guy.

Just because he's of no use to the Spurs doesnt mean he has lost his value though. Young teams are in dire need of a veteran presence like Manu, and I'm sure he can still be effective on the court, where he has young athletic backups to give him a breather. The Spurs are just too old. Manu is the only athletic Wing we've got, and he's not getting any younger, he cant be THE solution for our wing situation. On a young team though, he can be part of the solution, providing experience, discipline, and talent, working with up and coming wings.

So down to business. The Wizards have openly said if they dont win the lottery they're going to trade their pick away. We wont have a great spot in the draft, so why not trade Manu to the Wizards for that pick if it's top 5? Having a young guy like Thabeet, or Monroe, whose athletic and eager to prove something would be great for this team, and even though it's not certain, they could make us a contender if they can produce right away. We still have Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, if we could get a young athletic guy with a lot of talent next to them I think we'd be in good position.

Obviously I know that this all rides on the talent that can be found in the top 5 of the draft, and this draft kind of sucks, but we might be pleasantly surprised.

[mexicanjunior]

I would rather trade Manu for proven young players...doubt we could get all that much in return though.

[DPG21920]

http://www.fmylife.com/

[Rob123]

http://www.fmylife.com/

that was deep dude, thanks

[TheSpursFNRule]

We really need to fucking stop with the trade manu threads. Manu is our boy. People get injured fuck off!

[Rob123]

We really need to fucking stop with the trade manu threads. Manu is our boy. People get injured fuck off!

Damn, fuck me for having an opinion. My bad bro

[anonoftheinternets]

We really need to fucking stop with the trade manu threads. Manu is our boy. People get injured fuck off!

its all the same posters with new ids :rolleyes. Notice most of these chumps have < 20 posts.

[DPG21920]

Look, everyone has trade ideas, but you really have to think them through. Why would the Spurs trade Manu? For who? Do salaries work? Why would the other team want Manu? There is a lot of things to consider and trading Manu for a draft pick is not possible. There would have to be other players involved.

Not a big deal, but people around here are sensitive, especially after learning just yesterday that Manu is done for the year.

[Rob123]

its all the same posters with new ids :rolleyes. Notice most of these chumps have < 20 posts.

I feel like Im in the twilight zone. Is everyone here that retarded? This is a logical thought out post, not a TRADE MANU NOW thread. I've been a member here for a year.

I understand my idea may be wrong, but it's at least something to think about.

[VI_Massive]

I'm not completely opposed to trading Manu, but for a pick in one of the worse drafts in years? NFW.

[mexicanjunior]

I feel like Im in the twilight zone. Is everyone here that retarded? This is a logical thought out post, not a TRADE MANU NOW thread. I've been a member here for a year.

I understand my idea may be wrong, but it's at least something to think about.

Don't sweat it man...alot of people are in "SUPPORT MANU OR GTFO!!! BELIEVE!!!" mode...sometimes reality doesn't set in...

[DPG21920]

I feel like Im in the twilight zone. Is everyone here that retarded? This is a logical thought out post, not a TRADE MANU NOW thread. I've been a member here for a year.

I understand my idea may be wrong, but it's at least something to think about.

It is not that well thought out because you cannot trade Manu for a draft pick to the Wizards. It legally cannot be done.

This topic has been beat to death. That is why people act like they do. Do not take offense to it. It is extremely hard to think up logical and legal trade moves. That goes double for Manu.

[TheProfessor]

I'm not completely opposed to trading Manu, but for a pick in one of the worse drafts in years? NFW.
Exactly. Players like Thabeet or Harden don't excite me very much. If anything, Manu will be traded as an expiring contract to give a rebuilding team cap relief and give us a healthier option on the wing.

And people should stop jumping on posters that suggest this. If you don't think the Spurs' FO isn't considering it, you're just being naive. He's been out two consecutive seasons come playoff time, they may be ready to transition to another core of players around Duncan in his "twilight" years with Parker playing the more central role.

[Rob123]

It is not that well thought out because you cannot trade Manu for a draft pick to the Wizards. It legally cannot be done.

This topic has been beat to death. That is why people act like they do. Do not take offense to it. It is extremely hard to think up logical and legal trade moves. That goes double for Manu.

That's all I wanted to know. What else would the wizards have to give up to make this feasible? Nick young?

[DPG21920]

Exactly. Players like Thabeet or Harden don't excite me very much. If anything, Manu will be traded as an expiring contract to give a rebuilding team cap relief and give us a healthier option on the wing.

And people should stop jumping on posters that suggest this. If you don't think the Spurs' FO isn't considering it, you're just being naive. He's been out two consecutive seasons come playoff time, they may be ready to transition to another core of players around Duncan in his "twilight" years with Parker playing the more central role.

Manu does no good for a rebuilding team, unless they are just trying to acquire expiring contracts. Manu, basketball wise, only helps teams that are on the cusp of being contenders. Which is not very many.

[TheProfessor]

Manu does no good for a rebuilding team, unless they are just trying to acquire expiring contracts. Manu, basketball wise, only helps teams that are on the cusp of being contenders. Which is not very many.
I think it would happen around the deadline anyway, especially if he's having difficulties again. Really, giving him the first half of the season to test his ankle would be the best way to go.

[DPG21920]

That's all I wanted to know. What else would the wizards have to give up to make this feasible? Nick young?

This is a good site to test out trades (at least from a salary cap standpoint): http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Then you have to also piece together why both teams would want to do it.

[Texas_Ranger]

It's fucking april and you want a trade...Pathetic.

[Rob123]

It's fucking april and you want a trade...Pathetic.

Yeah I know right... I'm retarded for thinking about the future of the franchise. Im just gonna go kill myself.

[Austin_Toros]

I knew Ginobili's ankle injury would get a thread like this.

[DPG21920]

I knew Ginobili's ankle injury would get a thread like this.

It is not a big deal, he just picked a bad time.

[Mal]

Trade Manu for one guy from this week draft ? Wizards won`t trade for #1, so other trades are retarted. This draft is Blake Griffin and nothing else.

They are possible steal in late 1 rnd or early 2nd like Pitt`s Sam Young or Wayne Ellington. But Spurs give Thunder pick and then Thunder make this pick even better by winning series with Spurs.

[Mel_13]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the salary cap, luxury tax and all things related to the Collective Bargaining Agreement can be found here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

As to your scenario, when two teams are both over the salary cap (like the Spurs and Wizards), the value of the contracts traded must be within 125% plus $100K. So with Manu making 10.7M next year, the Wizards would have to send between 8.4 and 13.5M in contracts back to the Spurs. Caron Butler would work, but why would the Wizards trade Butler and a top 5 draft pick to get Manu?

[Rob123]

I knew Ginobili's ankle injury would get a thread like this.

That's awesome, thanks for the contribution to the thread, I hope you use your clairvoyant powers more often, stop by anytime.

[J.T.]

Shitty thread.

[DPG21920]

That's awesome, thanks for the contribution to the thread, I hope you use your clairvoyant powers more often, stop by anytime.

Rob, I will tell you from experience it is not worth quoting and defending yourself to everyone and everything that is said. It really is just pointless. Do not take things personally. Some people will talk trash and it is good to go back and forth if someone is really laying it on thick, but it always leads to no where.

Get in, throw a few punches, then get out. :toast

[SenorSpur]

There's nothing to believe that Manu cannot recover and come back full strength next year. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with thinking about the future of the franchise. However, I don't believe trading Manu is the answer. Even if they wanted to, he has no value right because he's injured.

No, trading Manu isn't the answer. The FO simply needs to do a MUCH better job of filling in the gaps around what's left of the Big Three. This cannot be done by way of signing old players, who are at the end of their careers or spending draft picks on guys Euros that will never see the inside of an NBA arena.

[Rob123]

Rob, I will tell you from experience it is not worth quoting and defending yourself to everyone and everything that is said. It really is just pointless. Do not take things personally. Some people will talk trash and it is good to go back and forth if someone is really laying it on thick, but it always leads to no where.

Get in, throw a few punches, then get out. :toast

Haha, you're a good guy.

I just took 3 scoops of NO Xplode and am waiting to go to the gym, so I'm all fired up, I kind of like using logic against all these other posters, im just passing some time.

[Death In June]

These trade threads are retarded. These people either have selective memories or don't know how to recieve and interpret information. Manu will be back next year, just as good as he was in 2007. The guy had very little time to recover from his ankle injury in the lakers series and that set a chain reaction of injuries that led us here.

[DPG21920]

This is a good site to test out trades (at least from a salary cap standpoint): http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Then you have to also piece together why both teams would want to do it.


Everything you ever wanted to know about the salary cap, luxury tax and all things related to the Collective Bargaining Agreement can be found here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

As to your scenario, when two teams are both over the salary cap (like the Spurs and Wizards), the value of the contracts traded must be within 125% plus $100K. So with Manu making 10.7M next year, the Wizards would have to send between 8.4 and 13.5M in contracts back to the Spurs. Caron Butler would work, but why would the Wizards trade Butler and a top 5 draft pick to get Manu?


Haha, you're a good guy.

I just took 3 scoops of NO Xplode and am waiting to go to the gym, so I'm all fired up, I kind of like using logic against all these other posters, im just passing some time.

Just read through the websites we gave you and it will help you learn. It really is complex stuff, but it is fun and it adds to the experience of being a basketball/Spurs fan.

[Rob123]

There's nothing to believe that Manu cannot recover and come back full strength next year. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with thinking about the future of the franchise. However, I don't believe trading Manu is the answer. Even if they wanted to, he has no value right because he's injured.

No, trading Manu isn't the answer. The FO simply needs to do a MUCH better job of filling in the gaps around what's left of the Big Three. This cannot be done by way of signing old players, who are at the end of their careers or spending draft picks on guys Euros that will never see the inside of an NBA arena.

See I like this, a rational thought.

I didnt post this in reaction to his ankle injury. Manu is a great player, I love watching him play. But he's being called upon to be our whole wing. Without him we dont have any athleticism at the 2 or 3, unless George Hill gets some burn finally. I love Mason, but he's just a shooter.

It makes more sense to me to trade him and get two athletic young wings, or at least someone we can run into the ground, and still be fresh come play offs.

We cant expect a guy to be one of our only athletic scorers, not give him any rest, and then expect him to be 100% come playoffs at his age.

[Josepatches_]

If Manu is healthy next season..how many players can be better than him? (Bryant,Wade,LBJ or superstars like them) And how many of them could be trade for Manu? Nobody.

If Manu is healthy he's better than anyone we can get for him.And if he's not healthy teams are not going to trade for him.

So Manu has to stay here

[Rob123]

These trade threads are retarded. These people either have selective memories or don't know how to recieve and interpret information. Manu will be back next year, just as good as he was in 2007. The guy had very little time to recover from his ankle injury in the lakers series and that set a chain reaction of injuries that led us here.

See I'm a wizards fan as well, I remember saying the same thing when the then 26 year old Arenas went down in 07. He's gonna be back in 08 and tear shit up. Then he went down again in 08, and I was like well damn, he needs more rest, he'll back in 09 to tear shit up. Well here's to hoping that he can come back and do it in '10.

I remember last years play offs when the 30 year old Manu was ineffective against the lakers, and I thought to myself he'll be fine next year, and we'll tear shit up. Now it's this years playoffs and I'm saying this same thing. Deja Vu

[TheProfessor]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the salary cap, luxury tax and all things related to the Collective Bargaining Agreement can be found here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

As to your scenario, when two teams are both over the salary cap (like the Spurs and Wizards), the value of the contracts traded must be within 125% plus $100K. So with Manu making 10.7M next year, the Wizards would have to send between 8.4 and 13.5M in contracts back to the Spurs. Caron Butler would work, but why would the Wizards trade Butler and a top 5 draft pick to get Manu?
They wouldn't trade a top 5 pick. But, it's not impossible that the Wizards absolutely suck again next year. With Arenas' ungodly contract on the books, they may want to dump either Butler or Jamison to free up some cap space for 2010 or to begin rebuilding. Manu's expiring contract suddenly looks pretty good at the trade deadline.

If Manu is healthy during the first half of the season, then it's not an issue. But if he's injured again, and the Spurs intend on making a serious run, it wouldn't surprise me to see a trade like that.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs are just too old. Manu is the only athletic Wing we've got, and he's not getting any younger, he cant be THE solution for our wing situation.

We still have Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, if we could get a young athletic guy with a lot of talent next to them I think we'd be in good position.


On these points, we're saying the same thing. I strongly believe a young, athletic wing could make a HUGE difference on this squad. Of course, I've thought and said this publically for about 4 years.

The Spurs don't necessarily have to move up to the top five of the NBA draft to get such a guy. He could come via free agency.

Yet instead of actually addressing this issue for the current and long term, Pop keeps closing his eyes and giving his heart and minutes to Finley, every year.

[Mel_13]

They wouldn't trade a top 5 pick. But, it's not impossible that the Wizards absolutely suck again next year. With Arenas' ungodly contract on the books, they may want to dump either Butler or Jamison to free up some cap space for 2010 or to begin rebuilding. Manu's expiring contract suddenly looks pretty good at the trade deadline.

If Manu is healthy during the first half of the season, then it's not an issue. But if he's injured again, and the Spurs intend on making a serious run, it wouldn't surprise me to see a trade like that.

As much as I want to see Manu retire as a Spur, I agree that there are reasonable scenarios this summer and at next year's trade deadline that could have Manu traded. For me, it would really suck if we have seen Manu's last game as a Spur. Let's hope for a different outcome.

[Rob123]

On these points, we're saying the same thing. I strongly believe a young, athletic wing could make a HUGE difference on this squad. Of course, I've thought and said this publically for about 4 years. Yet instead of actually addressing this issue for the current and long term, Pop keeps closing his eyes and giving his heart and minutes to Finley, every year.

Exactly, with tony parker, and tim duncan all that's needed is one or two young athletic players who can play the entire season, and still be fresh in the post season.

Im sorry but Manu is the most expendable of the key players on our team.

[SenorSpur]

Exactly, with tony parker, and tim duncan all that's needed is one or two young athletic players who can play the entire season, and still be fresh in the post season.

Im sorry but Manu is the most expendable of the key players on our team.

Again, he's got no trade value. They can get such a guy without trading Manu.

[Rob123]

Again, he's got no trade value. They can get such a guy without trading Manu.

But with such a fiscal minded team, we'd be going very cheap if we keep Manus contract on the books. We dont need kobe, but we're gonna need something better than Mason as our starter. Mason was a great value, but we had to go cheap.

[rascal]

Exactly, with tony parker, and tim duncan all that's needed is one or two young athletic players who can play the entire season, and still be fresh in the post season.

Im sorry but Manu is the most expendable of the key players on our team.

Agree. Good points. But will manu even play for another team or just leave the nba if threatened to be traded. So that would make him untradeable and an anchor to Duncan's last years if he doesn't regain past form.

[ambchang]

Yes! Let's trade our players when their trade value is at their absolute lowest! I am sure Manu can net a couple of second round picks and cash right now!

[SenorSpur]

But with such a fiscal minded team, we'd be going very cheap if we keep Manus contract on the books. We dont need kobe, but we're gonna need something better than Mason as our starter. Mason was a great value, but we had to go cheap.

Couldn't agree more. However there is no one out there at 10mil that I'd rather have to fulfill the 2/3 spot. There are cheaper, more affordable options. Many of which have been discussed hither and yon on this board.

My issue with the Spurs FO is that they did exactly what I feared they would do. They carelessly played "russian roulette", year-after-year with this position. Just because they were winning, they thought it was ok to wait until Bowen got old, Manu became injury-prone, and Finley became old and an obvious liability. They've done nothing to proactively plan for this occurrence and now they have no choice. The solution will be more difficult.

[Mel_13]

However there is no one out there at 10mil that I'd rather have to fulfill the 2/3 spot. There are cheaper, more affordable options.


Unfortunately, the numbers (players under contract and a decreasing lux tax line) suggest that the only talent the Spurs will be able to add next year will be Hairston, Gist and other minimum salary talent. I don't see how they can use the MLE to upgrade the rotation without a trade that sheds at least 5M in salary.

[wildbill2u]

"The Wizards have openly said if they dont win the lottery they're going to trade their pick away"

That's probably because this draft is so thin they don't want to take a chance on a high draftee player who won't perform like a high draftee.

[SenorSpur]

"The Wizards have openly said if they dont win the lottery they're going to trade their pick away"

That's probably because this draft is so thin they don't want to take a chance on a high draftee player who won't perform like a high draftee.

They would've done better to let Gilbert Arenas walk instead of giving him an max contract.

[Bukefal]

yesterday he was god, today they want him to be traded :bang:sleep