Come N Get it-- All Remaining Games for Western Playoff teams, seeding, tiebreakers !

[Mavs<Spurs]

Okay, my peeps, I got some good stuff all in one place.

This thread has all of the remaining games for all of the Western Conference Playoff teams, it has the seeding for all of them, it has the 2 way and 3 way tiebreaker rules, links, and an article explaining the Spurs, Rockets and Blazers complicated situation.

Make a prediction about seeding and the record for each of these teams for their remaining games.







http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/7164305

The following is an explanation of NBA tiebreaking scenarios.
Determining Ties for Playoff Position
In order to break a tie for playoff positions, if one exists at the end of the regular season, the following criteria will be utilized in the order set forth:
TWO-WAY TIES
1. Results of games against each other.
2. Better winning percentage within own division (only if tied teams are in same division).
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
4. Better winning percentage against playoff opponents in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
5. Better winning percentage against playoff opponents in opposite conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
6. Better point differential between offense and defense.
MORE THAN TWO TEAMS TIED
1. If applicable, division champions must be determined first.
2. Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in same division).
4. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
5. Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including team that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
6. Best point differential between offense and defense.
Note: If a multiple team tie is reduced to a two-team tie at any point using the above criteria, the two-team tie will be resolved in accordance with the existing two-team tie procedure.
http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2009/04/tiebreaker_scenarios_make_for.html

If Portland and Denver end the season with identical records, the Nuggets would win the division title via tiebreaker. The first tiebreaker is head-to-head competition. If the Blazers defeat the Nuggets on Wednesday, both teams will have won two games. The next tiebreaker is each team's record against Northwest Division opponents. The Nuggets have the better record against division opponents, 12-3 vs. the Blazers 9-5, and with only one division game left is assured of maintaining that lead.
Should the Nuggets win the division title and the second seed, the Blazers will probably fight Houston and San Antonio for the third and fourth seeds in the conference.
The Blazers' loss at Houston on Sunday means the Rockets win the tiebreaker if the teams finish tied in the standings. The Rockets won two of three head-to-head games during the season and own the first tiebreaker scenario.
However, if the Blazers and Spurs finish tied in the standings, the Blazers win the tiebreaker for the fourth seed and possibly home court advantage in the first round. The Blazers won three of four games against the Spurs this season.
Had the Blazers lost, the season series would have been tied and the next tiebreaker is each team's record against division opponents. The Blazers have a half-game lead with two division games remaining (San Antonio has one). If the Blazers and Spurs finish with identical division records, the next tiebreaker is conference records, and the Spurs hold a significant advantage.
It gets really complicated if Houston, San Antonio and Portland finish in a three-way tie. The first step to break that tie is determining whether Houston or San Antonio wins the Southwest Division. Since the Spurs and Rockets split four games, division record would be the next tiebreaker. San Antonio has a half game lead now, but if each team wins it remaining division games, they would tie there, too. They also have identical conference records, which would push it to the fifth tiebreaker -- winning percentage against other conference playoff teams.
The Southwest Division winner would get the No.3 seed, and the tiebreakers would be applied to the other two teams for the fourth seed. It would be to Portland's advantage for Houston to be the third seed so the Blazers could earn home court advantage against the Spurs.
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

I am updating these daily ! So, this is current as of tonight, reflecting all of the games played tonight, April 13, 2009.

Los Angeles Lakers 64 wins 17 losses
Currently #1 seed (will stay #1 seed)
Los Angeles April 12 vs Memphis in Los Angeles (LA won this game)
Los Angeles April 14 vs Utah in Los Angeles

Denver current record – 54 wins 27 losses
Currently #2 seed
Denver April 13 vs Sacramento in Denver (Denver won this game)
Denver April 15 vs Portland in Portland

Houston current record 53 wins 28 losses
Currently # 3 seed
Houston April 13 vs New Orleans in Houston (Houston won this game)
Houston April 15 vs Dallas in Dallas

Portland 53 wins 28 losses now 4-13-09 52 wins 28 losses
Currently #4 seed (hold 2 way tiebreaker against San Antonio) changed now to currently #5 seed
Portland April 11 vs LA Clippers in Los Angeles (Portland won this game)
Portland April 13 vs OKC in Portland (Portland won this game)
Portland April 15 vs Denver in Portland

San Antonio 53 wins 28 losses now -4-13-09
Currently #5 seed (below Portland in 2 way tiebreaker)
San Antonio April 12 vs Sacramento in Sacramento (Spurs won this game)
San Antonio April 13 vs Golden State at Golden State (Spurs won this game)
San Antonio April 15 vs New Orleans in San Antonio

New Orleans 48 wins 32 losses now 4-13-09
Currently #6 seed
New Orleans April 12 vs Dallas in New Orleans (New Orleans lost this game)
New Orleans April 13 vs Houston in New Orleans
New Orleans April 15 vs San Antonio in San Antonio

Dallas 49 wins 32 losses now 4-13-09
Currently #7 seed
Dallas April 12 vs New Orleans in New Orleans (Dallas lost this game)
Dallas April 13 vs Minnesota in Dallas (Dallas won this game)
Dallas April 15 vs Houston in Dallas

Utah 48 wins 33 losses - now 4-13-09
Currently #8 seed - Utah must win out and Dallas must go 1 win 1 loss for Utah to get #7 seed
Utah April 11 vs Golden State at Utah
Utah April 13 vs LA Clippers at Utah (Utah won this game)
Utah April 14 vs LA Lakers in Los Angeles

[U][B]
Edited to include all relevant games on 11th and 12th and 13th !



:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

My predictions:

LA 2-0 finishes 65-17 # 1 seed
Denver 1-1 loss to Portland in Portland finishes 54-28 and # 2 seed (own tiebreaker against Spurs)
San Antonio 3 -0 finishes 54 – 28 and # 3 seed
Houston 1-1 loses to New Orleans finishes 53 – 29 and #4 seed (owns 2 way tiebreaker against Portland )
Portland 2 -1 loses to LA Clippers in LA finishes 53 – 29 and # 5 seed
New Orleans 2-1 loses to San Antonio finishes 50 – 32 and # 6 seed
Utah 2-1 loses to LA Lakers finishes 49 – 33 and # 7 seed (holds 2 way tiebreaker against Mavericks)
Dallas 1-2 loses to New Orleans and to Houston finishes 49 – 33 and # 8 seed

:flag:

this would leave:

LA vs Dallas
Houston vs Portland

Denver vs Utah
SA vs New Orleans


LA wins in 5 against Dallas
SA wins in 7 against NO

Denver wins in 7 against Utah
Portland wins in 7 against Houston

LA wins in 6 against Portland
San Antonio wins in 7 against Denver

LA wins in 5 against San Antonio

LA plays the Cavs

Cavs have homecourt. Cavs lost 1 game at home all year.
Cavs win every game at home. Cavs win the series, the Finals, in 7.
LeBron James is an NBA Champion and Finals MVP. LeBron James also wins regular season mvp.


If it is 1. LA 2. Denver 3. Portland 4. SA 5. Houston 6. NO 7. Dallas 8. Utah

(Another reasonably likely scenario)

LA beats Utah in 6
SA beats Portland in 7

Denver beats Dallas in 7
Portland beats NO in 7

LA beats SA in 6
Portland beats Denver in 7

LA beats Portland in 6

LA advances to play Cavs in Finals. Cavs have HCA in Finals. Cavs lost only 1 game at home. Cavs win every home playoff game in the Finals against LA and win the series, then, in 7 games. James is Finals MVP and regular season mvp.


:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

If I'm wrong in my predictions, then probably what happened would be that Portland wins out, goes 3-0 and grabs #3 seed, San Antonio wins fewer games, perhaps losing at New Orleans and becomes # 4 seed.

:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

Dude, no offense, I really like the hard work, but you are thinking way to much into this. Just let the season play itself out. I thought about doing something like this about 6 games left and it was too crazy, I decided then whatever happens happens.

I think we are going to play at Portland for the first game of the playoffs.

no offense taken.

It was a lot of work, but I thought some people might like to see this.
Besides I was kind of interested in it myself.

:toast

[Kori Ellis]

My predictions:

Lakers - 2-0
Denver - 1-1 (losing to Portland)
Houston - 0-2
Portland - 3-0
S.A. - 2-1 (losing to GS)
New Orleans - 2-1 (losing to SA)
Dallas - 1-2 (losing to NO/Hou)
Utah - 2-1 (losing to Lakers)

I have no idea how that will make the seeds end up though :)

[KSeal]

This is all moot. The Blazers are going to win the NBA championship this year because they are just so long, athletic, and skilled. None of this playoff seeding even matters.

[Mavs<Spurs]

My predictions:

Lakers - 2-0
Denver - 1-1 (losing to Portland)
Houston - 0-2
Portland - 3-0
S.A. - 2-1 (losing to GS)
New Orleans - 2-1 (losing to SA)
Dallas - 1-2 (losing to NO/Hou)
Utah - 2-1 (losing to Lakers)

I have no idea how that will make the seeds end up though :)

So, for your seeding,
1. Lakers
2. Denver
3. Portland
4. San Antonio
5. Houston
6. New Orleans
7. Utah
8. Dallas

:flag:

Lakers in 4 against Dallas
Denver in 6 against Utah
Portland in 6 against New Orleans
San Antonio in 7 against Houston

Lakers in 5 against San Antonio
Portland in 7 against Denver

Lakers in 5 against Portland

Lakers vs Cavs, Cavs have home court advantage.

Cavs in 7, win all games at home.

:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

This is all moot. The Blazers are going to win the NBA championship this year because they are just so long, athletic, and skilled. None of this playoff seeding even matters.

tlong II, is that you ?

:lol

[Cloud786]

DAMN hornets end with the texas three step to end the season? Wow they might end up 8th seed!!

[djohn2oo8]

DAMN hornets end with the texas three step to end the season? Wow they might end up 8th seed!!

More like 2 and a half....Mavs dont count

[KSeal]

Hornets are going to lose out and then get Chandler, Peja, and Posey fully healthy and upset the Lakers. CP3 and West P&R completely owns the Lakers. They'll run it every time down the floor and score every time down the floor, BOOK IT!

[Rogue]

My predictions:

Lakers - 2-0
Denver - 1-1 (losing to Portland)
Houston - 0-2
Portland - 3-0
S.A. - 2-1 (losing to GS)
New Orleans - 2-1 (losing to SA)
Dallas - 1-2 (losing to NO/Hou)
Utah - 2-1 (losing to Lakers)

I have no idea how that will make the seeds end up though :)
:rolleyes

[Rogue]

More like 2 and a half....
you're describing yourself djohn, right? two legs and a smaller one between them which is very elastic and adjustable. of course no one else is that shameless as you to talk about the very private issues in a public forum.

[Kori Ellis]

:rolleyes

Yeah sorry. That should say (losing to NO/Minny).

[Mavs<Spurs]

:rolleyes

You don't think that Dallas and Houston can both lose when they play each other ? There has to be a winner? Are you serious.

:lmao

Good catch !

I was so stupid, just mechanically giving her the seedings that I didn't even see it !

:lmao

Hope you all beat the Lakers. Not trying to diss your team by my predictions.
After all, I predict the Lakers to beat the Spurs in 5 if / when they play each other and I have serious doubts that the Spurs get out of the second round still alive.

:toast

[Mavs<Spurs]

bump myself because a number of people were asking about the playoff seeding situation at the end of the game tonight !

:flag:

[benefactor]

Tomorrow night is big. We could really use a loss from either Portland or Houston.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm guessing it ends up..

LA vs. Utah
Denver vs. NO
Portland vs. Dallas
SA vs. Houston

[Mavs<Spurs]

Tomorrow night is big. We could really use a loss from either Portland or Houston.

Yeah, tomorrow, April 13, Houston against New Orleans is really important.

If we win against Golden State and Houston loses, then I will feel pretty good about getting the third seed.

:flag:

[Ice009]

Tomorrow night is big. We could really use a loss from either Portland or Houston.

This win tonight puts the pressure on Portland and Houston. I'm sure both those teams would rather be resting than having to go all out to win games at the end of the season.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I'm guessing it ends up..

LA vs. Utah
Denver vs. NO
Portland vs. Dallas
SA vs. Houston

Utah owns the tiebreaker against Dallas and Utah just moved as Dallas lost.

So far, all of my predictions came true, but this was an easy day. The next ones are tougher.

However, Utah is poised to move into the seventh seed.

So, Denver vs Utah is at least as likely at this point with 2 games left for all teams.

[timaios]

I don't think the Spurs can win 1 game against the Lakers without Manu.
Especially the way the Spurs are playing now.

I'm not sure i want the Hornets in 1st round. Paul & West are always playing out of their minds against the Spurs.

I prefer the 4-5 spots for the Spurs & Rockets.
Then if the Spurs beat the Rockets... The Spurs will try to win 1 game against the Lakers.
They can't do nothing more this year.

With all the bad luck the Spurs had this year, i hope the 2009-10 season will be a great one... and healthy one.

:flag::flag::flag:

[Fabbs]

Okay, my peeps, I got some good stuff all in one place.

MORE THAN TWO TEAMS TIED
1. If applicable, division champions must be determined first.
2. Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in same division).
4. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
5. Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including team that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).

What order are they in right here and now tonight with all 3 at 52-28?
ESPN has it
3 Spurs
4 Houston
5 Portland

but that is in error, right? Only way Spurs can move up is Port and Hou loss?

[Ice009]

I don't think the Spurs can win 1 game against the Lakers without Manu.
Especially the way the Spurs are playing now.

I'm not sure i want the Hornets in 1st round. Paul & West are always playing out of their minds against the Spurs.

I prefer the 4-5 spots for the Spurs & Rockets.
Then if the Spurs beat the Rockets... The Spurs will try to win 1 game against the Lakers.
They can't do nothing more this year.

With all the bad luck the Spurs had this year, i hope the 2009-10 season will be a great one... and healthy one.

:flag::flag::flag:

Don't toss in the towel that quick man. We can do it. We still got Tim and Tony.

[Fabbs]

If Portland and Denver end the season with identical records, the Nuggets would win the division title via tiebreaker.
Darn. For the finale of Denver hosting Portland, Denver will just tank if up by 1 game going in. :depressed

[Mavs<Spurs]

What order are they in right here and now tonight with all 3 at 52-28?
ESPN has it
3 Spurs
4 Houston
5 Portland

but that is in error, right? Only way Spurs can move up is Port and Hou loss?


No, it is correct and current, good for ESPN.

all three have records of 52-28, but Spurs are division leader because their division record is 9-6 and Houston's division record is 8-6. Portland isn't winning their divison. So, since division leader (first way to break a 3 way tie) is the Spurs, Spurs are #3 seed.

Houston owns the tiebreaker against Portland because of 2-1 head to head games and this is the first way to break the remaining 2 way tie.

So, all good !

:flag:

[EricB]

If the Spurs play Houston the Spurs will take it in a tough 5 games.

With Yao hurt it totally tips the scales in the Spurs favor.

Plus we could have a Spurstalk roadie to HOuston to watch game 3 or 4.


Bring on Houston :makemyday

[Caltex2]

No, it is correct and current, good for ESPN.

all three have records of 52-28, but Spurs are division leader because their division record is 9-6 and Houston's division record is 8-6. Portland isn't winning their divison. So, since division leader (first way to break a 3 way tie) is the Spurs, Spurs are #3 seed.

Houston owns the tiebreaker against Portland because of 2-1 head to head games and this is the first way to break the remaining 2 way tie.

So, all good !

:flag:

But if Houston wins out, the Rockets get the 3 seed (or two with another Denver loss).

[Mavs<Spurs]

So, what will determine everything is who beats New Orleans. If we beat them and Houston doesn't, then we would win the division.

Houston has to beat New Orleans (but in Houston) and beat Dallas in Dallas.

We must beat Golden State at Golden State and then New Orleans in San Antonio.

I think that Houston has the tougher schedule.

If we both win out, then we will have even division and conference records and so it will go to records against playoff teams in the West, then records against playoff teams in the East, then point differential.

I believe that Houston has the better record against playoff teams in the West.
However, I have not looked at this. And it will take a little time (a lot of school stuff due - end of semester) .

:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

But if Houston wins out, the Rockets get the 3 seed (or two with another Denver loss).

Houston is more likely to lose both games than to win both games.

The most likely scenario is that they win one of the two remaining games.

Chris Paul had 30 something points, 17 assists and around 9 rebounds in their win tonight. And the pick and roll is not something that Yao can defend. On the other hand, it is a back to back on the road (but not a long flight).

And Dallas does not want to play LA in the first round.

I'm not saying that because I'm a Spurs fan (obviously I am), but it appears the more realistic outcome.

:flag:

[Mel_13]

Spurs fans:

Games that matter for the Spurs tonight include the Hornets v. Houston. A Hornet win helps two ways. In addition to the obvious benefit of Houston loss, a win for the Hornets guarantees that they cannot fall to the 8 seed and so would have little or nothing to play for in the last game against the Spurs.

Also root for Cleveland to wrap up HCA thru the NBA finals with a win tonight against Indiana. A Cleveland win tonight makes the Laker season finale tomorrow against Utah a meaningless game for the Lakers. A win by Utah tomorrow makes the Dallas/Houston game on Wednesday critical to the Mavs to avoid the 8 seed. If Utah loses tomorrow, the Mavs will clinch a spot in the 6th or 7th seed and have little to play for against Houston.

[Spursmania]

bump myself because a number of people were asking about the playoff seeding situation at the end of the game tonight !

:flag:

Please bump this thread again after tonight's game as you know we all have our eyes on the seedings now. And thanks for making this thread, very cool:toast


Spurs fans:

Games that matter for the Spurs tonight include the Hornets v. Houston. A Hornet win helps two ways. In addition to the obvious benefit of Houston loss, a win for the Hornets guarantees that they cannot fall to the 8 seed and so would have little or nothing to play for in the last game against the Spurs.

Also root for Cleveland to wrap up HCA thru the NBA finals with a win tonight against Indiana. A Cleveland win tonight makes the Laker season finale tomorrow against Utah a meaningless game for the Lakers. A win by Utah tomorrow makes the Dallas/Houston game on Wednesday critical to the Mavs to avoid the 8 seed. If Utah loses tomorrow, the Mavs will clinch a spot in the 6th or 7th seed and have little to play for against Houston.

I always enjoy your posts too Mel_13:toast

Can't wait for tonight's games!!:flag::flag:

[Indazone]

The worst the Spurs, Rockets and Blazers can do is the sixth seed. One of us has to play each other. unless of course..the Nuggets flame out.

[Laker Lanny]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/RTM-3/kobe-in-bed.gif

[Marcus Bryant]

So long as LA ends up in Portland's bracket for the 1st 2 rounds and the Spurs end up in the other.

[wildbill2u]

My predictions:

Lakers - 2-0
Denver - 1-1 (losing to Portland)
Houston - 0-2
Portland - 3-0
S.A. - 2-1 (losing to GS)
New Orleans - 2-1 (losing to SA)
Dallas - 1-2 (losing to NO/Hou)
Utah - 2-1 (losing to Lakers)

I have no idea how that will make the seeds end up though :)

There was a thread early in the year with predictions for the Spurs final wins/losses. I don't remember if there was a prize attached. It would be interesting to see where everyone who participated stands.

[Fabbs]

defiling picture of StenchBoy with Jessica[/IMG]
Mouse remove this defiling picture. Or put an ashtray or something on Kobmes head.

[Fabbs]

No, it is correct and current, good for ESPN.

all three have records of 52-28, but Spurs are division leader because their division record is 9-6 and Houston's division record is 8-6. Portland isn't winning their divison. So, since division leader (first way to break a 3 way tie) is the Spurs, Spurs are #3 seed.

Houston owns the tiebreaker against Portland because of 2-1 head to head games and this is the first way to break the remaining 2 way tie.

So, all good !

:flag:
As i print this, Houston (now 9-6) just beat New Orleans, Spurs are ahead in the Golden game.
So for the season the Spurs have one one more conference game then Houston, hence if both win out the Spurs will win the Division due to 11-6 being better then 10-6? I'll bet that will fry Houston towards the schedulemaker.

[Mel_13]

As i print this, Houston (now 9-6) just beat New Orleans, Spurs are ahead in the Golden game.
So for the season the Spurs have one one more conference game then Houston, hence if both win out the Spurs will win the Division due to 11-6 being better then 10-6? I'll bet that will fry Houston towards the schedulemaker.

At the end of the season both teams will have 16 division games and 52 conference games.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings

[Mavs<Spurs]

As i print this, Houston (now 9-6) just beat New Orleans, Spurs are ahead in the Golden game.
So for the season the Spurs have one one more conference game then Houston, hence if both win out the Spurs will win the Division due to 11-6 being better then 10-6? I'll bet that will fry Houston towards the schedulemaker.

I think that you are accidentally confusing division and conference. Division is the smaller group of teams.

Our game tonight isn't a division game. So, our record if we beat New Orleans Wednesday night in the division will be 10-6 since our current division record is 9-6.

Houston's last game is against Dallas, an in division opponent. So, if they win that game they will also have a 10-6 division record.

Both teams have identical conference records right now. So, if we both win out, we will have identical conference records at the end of the season.

So, the next tiebreaker would be record against Western Conference Playoff teams. Unfortunately, Houston has the better record against Western Conference Playoff teams.

So, if Portland, San Antonio and Houston win out, the first way to break the 3 way tiebreaker is to find who won their division. Portland didn't win their division. So, it would have to be between San Antonio and Houston. And since all the previous ways of breaking the 2 way tie between San Antonio and Houston didn't resolve the tie, we go to the criteria who has the better record against Western Conference Playoff teams.

And as I just mentioned, the team with the better record against Western Conference Playoff teams is Houston.

So, Houston would be the division leader. Thus, Houston would get the #3 seed.

Then, the tie between Portland and San Antonio would have to be broken according to the 2 way tiebreaker rules. Portland wins that 2 way tiebreaker. Thus, Portland would be the #4 seed. San Antonio would have the #5 seed.

And we would not have home court advantage any round in the playoffs.


:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

Okay, so it is up to Dallas to beat Houston in Dallas on Wednesday night.

If we can beat New Orleans in San Antonio on Wednesday night and Dallas beats Houston in Dallas on Wednesday night, we end up with the number three seed.

If anything else happens, we end up with no better than the fourth seed. The only way for us to get the fourth seed is if we end up with a better record than Portland. So, we must win and they must lose for us to get the fourth seed (presuming Houston wins their last game) since Portland holds the 2 way tiebreaker against us.

Other than that, we end up with the fifth seed.


Dallas does have a strong motive to want to beat Houston. They will have to play the Lakers in the first round if the Jazz win and they lose because the Jazz hold the 2 way tiebreaker against the Mavericks.

Avoiding the Lakers would be a strong motive. Also, in their favor is the fact that this game will be at home and some commentators have said that their recent play has picked it up a level.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Please bump this thread again after tonight's game as you know we all have our eyes on the seedings now. And thanks for making this thread, very cool:toast

Thank you for the kind words !


I always enjoy your posts too Mel_13:toast

Can't wait for tonight's games!!:flag::flag:


:flag:

Beat New Orleans, Spurs !

And _allas must beat Houston in Dallas !

[Budkin]

The Mavs do not want the Lakers in the first round... they will crush Houston on Wednesday.

[timaios]

Okay, so it is up to Dallas to beat Houston in Dallas on Wednesday night.

If we can beat New Orleans in San Antonio on Wednesday night and Dallas beats Houston in Dallas on Wednesday night, we end up with the number three seed.

If that happens it will be Spurs (3) vs Mavs (6) !
I'm not sure i want a healthy Mavs team against the Spurs without Manu.

[Mel_13]

The Mavs do not want the Lakers in the first round... they will crush Houston on Wednesday.

If the Lakers beat Utah tomorrow night, then Dallas will finish 6th or 7th whether they win or lose on Wednesday.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm also expecting a Mavs win..

I want the 4th seed and Houston though..I feel like Dallas would be a tougher matchup for us..

[Russ]

The Mavs do not want the Lakers in the first round... they will crush Houston on Wednesday.

But if the Lakers beat Utah the night before, Dallas can mail it in against the Rockets and still avoid the 8 seed. :(

Let's face it, the great liklihood is that the Spurs won't even get one series with the home court advantage. I'm afraid the Spurs miscalculated ever so slightly but ever so disastrously.

Anyway . . .:flag:

[Bruno]

On Wednesday 3 games will eb important for Spurs future playoff opponent :
Houston at Dallas
New Orleans at San Antonio
Denver at Portland

If Houston win, Spurs will face Blazers. Spurs will only have the HCA if they win and Blazers lost their last game.

If Houston lost and Spurs win, Spurs will face Dallas with HCA.

If both Spurs and Rockets lost, Spurs will face Portland if Blazers also lost. If Blazers win, Spurs will face Houston. Spurs won't have HCA in both cases.

[HarlemHeat37]

Dallas can still get the 6th seed..so they'll be playing hard either way..

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm just hoping for a Houston loss, I don't care what else happens..

[Russ]

Dallas can still get the 6th seed..so they'll be playing hard either way..

The 6 seed means nothing. Dallas might rather finish with the 7 depending upon playoff matchups.

[HarlemHeat37]

The 6 seed means nothing. Dallas might rather finish with the 7 depending upon playoff matchups.

how does it mean nothing? why would they want the 7th seed instead?..

Dallas has owned Portland this year, and they match up well enough against the Rockets, and against us..

[NewJerSpur]

I'm also expecting a Mavs win..

I want the 4th seed and Houston though..I feel like Dallas would be a tougher matchup for us..

The thing I like about the 4th or 5th seed is, if we win we get to face the Lakers early in the 2nd. Although it would be a big series, it wouldn't be a pressure-packed as a WCF matchup with them which would be better for the new guys. On top of that, we would be MUCH fresher playing the Lakers than we would be if we saw them a round later which would be better for the veteran guys. Last year when we faced them, they were peaking and we were on fumes.

[Mavs<Spurs]

By the way, I updated the first post in this thread to include all of games played up to and including tonight's. So, the seedings, records ... are current -- 4-13-09

:toast

So, if you want the current seedings, record, ..., then you can simply look at that first page.

:flag:

Go Spurs !

Go _allas !

Go Spurstalk !

[HarlemHeat37]

The thing I like about the 4th or 5th seed is, if we win we get to face the Lakers early in the 2nd. Although it would be a big series, it wouldn't be a pressure-packed as a WCF matchup with them which would be better for the new guys. On top of that, we would be MUCH fresher playing the Lakers than we would be if we saw them a round later which would be better for the veteran guys. Last year when we faced them, they were peaking and we were on fumes.

I completely agree..

it's the best scenario, but even the 3rd seed wouldn't be so bad compared to usual years..Portland has the best shot to knock off LA, so if we advanced, we could just hope the Blazers give them a tough battle..

nothing we can do though, so let's just see how it plays out..

[NewJerSpur]

I completely agree..

it's the best scenario, but even the 3rd seed wouldn't be so bad compared to usual years..Portland has the best shot to knock off LA, so if we advanced, we could just hope the Blazers give them a tough battle..

nothing we can do though, so let's just see how it plays out..

I could defnitiely see that, though I have a feeling facing the Lakers in a series might prove to be a bit overwhelming for the upstart Blazers. They have proven they certainly have the tools to beat L.A., but it would be interesting to see if they have the championship drive and poise to actually pull it off for 4 games.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't expect them to beat the Lakers, but I'd really be surprised if it ended in less than 6..Portland just matches up with the Lakers in every part of the game..

obviously we don't know how they'll look in the playoffs though..I'd just like to avoid Portland, especially since Oden is starting to play consistently..

[Mavs<Spurs]

Remember, if there is a 2 way tie between Houston and Portland, Houston holds the tiebreaker because they won the series (2-1).

So, Houston would end up ahead (e.g. number 3 seed).

Portland would end up the number four seed.

San Antonio would end up the number five seed.

Then, we wouldn't have hca any round of the playoffs. We would have to play Portland in the first round without hca rather than Houston. LA would be our second round match up if we got that far.

Dallas has a pretty good chance of beating Houston in Dallas.

And we can beat New Orleans in San Antonio if we play well.

So, we have not yet lost the seeding war to Houston.

To get the number three seed, we must win and Houston and Portland must both lose.

To get the number four seed, Houston must win, we must win and Portland must lose.

To get the number five seed, anything else happens.

[Russ]

What order are they in right here and now tonight with all 3 at 52-28?
ESPN has it
3 Spurs
4 Houston
5 Portland

but that is in error, right?

Here's the bad news up to the minute.

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

[HarlemHeat37]

so if the Spurs and Blazers win, but Houston loses...?..

[NewJerSpur]

True. The NBA playoffs always seem to mess with a young team's confidence though. If this was the MLB they'd probably be a threat to go all the way. Still, I too would at least expect them to push it to 6.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Current seedings:

1. Lakers
2. Nuggets
3. Houston
4. Portland
5. San Antonio
6. New Orleans
7. Dallas
8. Utah

:flag:

[Russ]

To get the number three seed, we must win and Houston and Portland must both lose.

I could be wrong, but I think if the Spurs win and the Rockets lose, SA gets the 3 seed regardless.

[Mel_13]

so if the Spurs and Blazers win, but Houston loses...?..

3 Spurs
4 Blazers
5 Rockets

[Mavs<Spurs]

so if the Spurs and Blazers win, but Houston loses...?..

Portland would get the number 3 seed, we would get the number 4 seed, Houston would get the number 5 seed.

(Portland owns the 2 way tiebreaker between us).

:flag:

[Mel_13]

I could be wrong, but I think if the Spurs win and the Rockets lose, SA gets the 3 seed regardless.

yes

[Mavs<Spurs]

yes

No. It would be a 2 way tie in overall record between Portland and San Antonio, but Portland owns the 2 way tiebreaker.

So, we would be the number 4 seed and Portland would be the number 3 seed. Houston would fall to fifth seed because their overall record would be worse than the Spurs.

:flag:

[timvp]

Portland would get the number 3 seed, we would get the number 4 seed, Houston would get the number 5 seed.

(Portland owns the 2 way tiebreaker between us).

:flag:
The new rule this year states that if two teams are tied, if one of the two teams is a division winner, they automatically get the higher seed.

[timvp]

The new rule this year states that if two teams are tied, if one of the two teams is a division winner, they automatically get the higher seed.

And this actually sucks this year because I'd rather the Spurs play the Rockets than the Mavs.

[HarlemHeat37]

I just checked to make sure..

Dallas is 0-4 vs. Denver..they're 3-0 vs. Portland..

they'll be playing hard for that 6th seed..

[Mavs<Spurs]

However, if the Blazers and Spurs finish tied in the standings, the Blazers win the tiebreaker for the fourth seed and possibly home court advantage in the first round. The Blazers won three of four games against the Spurs this season.

That's from the first post in this thread. It is a direct quote from the article I posted.


So, the reason why the Blazers would win the 2 way tiebreaker if both the Spurs and the Blazers finish with identical records, but Houston falls behind them because of a loss is that the Blazers won the regular season series against the Spurs 3 to 1.



:flag:

[Road Warrior]

The new rule this year states that if two teams are tied, if one of the two teams is a division winner, they automatically get the higher seed.

Exactly so bottom line is if the Spurs win AND the Rockets lose Spurs get the third seed no matter what Portland does.

[Mavs<Spurs]

And this actually sucks this year because I'd rather the Spurs play the Rockets than the Mavs.

This applies to the 3 way tiebreaker.

:flag:

[Mel_13]

Portland would get the number 3 seed, we would get the number 4 seed, Houston would get the number 5 seed.

(Portland owns the 2 way tiebreaker between us).

:flag:

Spurs as Division winner get the three seed in a tie with a non Division winner.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/04/spurs-are-in-th.html

[Mavs<Spurs]

Spurs as Division winner get the three seed in a tie with a non Division winner.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/04/spurs-are-in-th.html

If there is a 3 way tie, this is true.

[Mavs<Spurs]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/7164305

The following is an explanation of NBA tiebreaking scenarios.
Determining Ties for Playoff Position
In order to break a tie for playoff positions, if one exists at the end of the regular season, the following criteria will be utilized in the order set forth:
TWO-WAY TIES
1. Results of games against each other.
2. Better winning percentage within own division (only if tied teams are in same division).
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
4. Better winning percentage against playoff opponents in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
5. Better winning percentage against playoff opponents in opposite conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
6. Better point differential between offense and defense.
MORE THAN TWO TEAMS TIED
1. If applicable, division champions must be determined first.
2. Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in same division).
4. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
5. Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including team that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
6. Best point differential between offense and defense.
Note: If a multiple team tie is reduced to a two-team tie at any point using the above criteria, the two-team tie will be resolved in accordance with the existing two-team tie procedure.

Hope this helps. It is a link and a direct quote.
And I just verified (by following my own link) that this was written 2009.

:flag:

[Mel_13]

If there is a 3 way tie, this is true.

Read McDonald's article. Says that in a two way tie between a division winner and a non-division winner, the division winner gets the higher seed regardless of head-to-head outcomes. Says it is a new tweak to the tiebreaker rules added this year. Of course, if he's wrong, I'm wrong.

[Road Warrior]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/7164305

The following is an explanation of NBA tiebreaking scenarios.
Determining Ties for Playoff Position
In order to break a tie for playoff positions, if one exists at the end of the regular season, the following criteria will be utilized in the order set forth:
TWO-WAY TIES
1. Results of games against each other.
2. Better winning percentage within own division (only if tied teams are in same division).
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
4. Better winning percentage against playoff opponents in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
5. Better winning percentage against playoff opponents in opposite conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
6. Better point differential between offense and defense.
MORE THAN TWO TEAMS TIED
1. If applicable, division champions must be determined first.
2. Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
3. Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in same division).
4. Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
5. Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including team that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
6. Best point differential between offense and defense.
Note: If a multiple team tie is reduced to a two-team tie at any point using the above criteria, the two-team tie will be resolved in accordance with the existing two-team tie procedure.

Hope this helps. It is a link and a direct quote.


:flag:

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/04/spurs-are-in-th.html#more


UPDATE: There is one fairly plausible scenario in which the Spurs could wind up third. If the Spurs win out, and the Rockets lose at least one of their final two games, they are the No. 3 seed -- regardless of what happens to Portland.

If Portland also loses one or more games, the Spurs obviously take the third seed outright.

If Portland also wins out, it would create a two-way tie with the Spurs for third and fourth. The Spurs would win that tiebreaker based on an NBA rule, new for this season, that gives division winners an automatic tiebreaker over non-division winners. As such, the Spurs would gain third place over Portland, despite the fact the Blazers took three of four from them this season.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Read McDonald's article. Says that in a two way tie between a division winner and a non-division winner, the division winner gets the higher seed regardless of head-to-head outcomes. Says it is a new tweak to the tiebreaker rules added this year. Of course, if he's wrong, I'm wrong.

Read the tiebreaking rules which I conveniently posted.

They are quoted in the post below yours and above mine (presuming I guess this in quickly).

And it is 2009.

The Oregon sportswriter said the opposite.

But most importantly, of course, the rules which I directly quoted in full say the opposite and that posting was written 2009.

(btw, you all frequently note that McDonald gets things wrong. So, it wouldn't be the first time that he is incorrect.)

:flag:

[Russ]

I just checked to make sure..

Dallas is 0-4 vs. Denver..they're 3-0 vs. Portland..

they'll be playing hard for that 6th seed..

Now we're talking. Dallas remembers their end-of-season screwup that stuck them with a bad matchup (GS) in '07.

[Mel_13]

Read the tiebreaking rules which I conveniently posted.

They are quoted in the post below yours and above mine (presuming I guess this in quickly).

And it is 2009.

The Oregon sportswriter said the opposite.

But most importantly, of course, the rules which I directly quoted in full say the opposite and that posting was written 2009.


:flag:

I did read them, in fact I posted them in another thread before this thread started. I understand and agree with you that according to those rules the Spurs would be 4th in a tie with Portland if Houston loses. That is how I understood things until McDonald's article today which stated otherwise.

So with McDonald saying one thing and CBS Sports and an Oregon sportswriter saying the opposite, I looked on NBA for official rules on the official site of the NBA.

Guess what? Unless this new rule McDonald speaks of is not included in the rules below, McDonald is wrong



I stand corrected. In the event of Spurs win, Rockets loss, and Blazer win, the seedings will be:

Blazers
Spurs
Rockets

Rules from NBA.com

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html#tbb

[ElNono]

I guess I have to thank McDonalds for making me look like fool too. Thanks for nothing Jeff!

[Mavs<Spurs]

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/04/spurs-are-in-th.html#more


UPDATE: There is one fairly plausible scenario in which the Spurs could wind up third. If the Spurs win out, and the Rockets lose at least one of their final two games, they are the No. 3 seed -- regardless of what happens to Portland.

If Portland also loses one or more games, the Spurs obviously take the third seed outright.

If Portland also wins out, it would create a two-way tie with the Spurs for third and fourth. The Spurs would win that tiebreaker based on an NBA rule, new for this season, that gives division winners an automatic tiebreaker over non-division winners. As such, the Spurs would gain third place over Portland, despite the fact the Blazers took three of four from them this season.


The list of rules posted for 2 way and 3 way was copyrighted 2009.

So, unless these changes were made in the middle of the season sometime after January, then it is current.

I have directly and fully quoted a 2009 listing of the rules for breaking 2 and 3 way ties.

There was no article, no commentary. It was simply the rules quoted in full and it was written 2009.

Unless somehow the people who wrote down the rules did not copy them correctly, then this would be right.

After all, I am not going by a list of the rules written in 2008 (ie. this is current, 2009 copyright). I am not interpreting anything incorrectly. This is clearly the plain meaning of the list of rules. It is simply the rules and thus, it would seem to be less likely to be in error than an article by a sportswriter.

So, the only way for me to be wrong in this case is if the writers simply copying/recording exclusively the rules for 2 and 3 way tiebreakers got it completely wrong.

But I am just going by what the list of rules listed at the website gave.


My apologies if this is wrong.


:toast

[timvp]

Looks like Mavs<Spurs was right. Props and props on keeping this thread updated. :tu

McDonald just needs to retire from writing about the NBA. He needs to go back to writing about the Longhorns or whatever.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I guess I have to thank McDonalds for making me look like fool too. Thanks for nothing Jeff!

Not your fault.

McDonald makes mistakes.

But it is his job to get it right.

And you should be able to count on him to do his job well.

So, no worries.

You all completely have my respect because I don't fault you all in any way.

But here we are.

:flag:

[Mugen]

I guess I have to thank McDonalds for making me look like fool too. Thanks for nothing Jeff!

does that mean i'm right ElNono?! haha you can't ever trust McDonald to get his facts straight.

did he really just make up that rule from nowhere w/o any basis??

i still dont see the logic of a divsion winner winning the tie breaker over a team that had a better head to head record.

im even more confused now.

just start the damn playoffs.

[ElNono]

Actually, here's the rub: If Portland wins, San Antonio wins and the Rockets lose, there would be a 3 way tie between Denver-Portland-San Antonio... that's why the multi team tie rules apply...

[Mavs<Spurs]

Looks like Mavs<Spurs was right. Props and props on keeping this thread updated. :tu

McDonald just needs to retire from writing about the NBA. He needs to go back to writing about the Longhorns or whatever.

Thanks for the kind words.

I am looking forward to your thoughts on the game!

:toast

[timvp]

So if the Spurs win, the Blazers win and the Mavs beat the Rockets, then what will the standings look like? Would it be my perfect scenario?

:smokin

[ElNono]

The thing is that if we have a muti-team tie, we would have to apply the 'determine the division champs' as the first rule. That would be San Antonio and Denver...

[Mel_13]

So if the Spurs win, the Blazers win and the Mavs beat the Rockets, then what will the standings look like? Would it be my perfect scenario?

:smokin

yes, you would get your wish

Lakers
Denver
Blazers
Spurs
Rockets
Hornets
Dallas
Utah

[timvp]

yes, you would get your wish

Lakers
Denver
Blazers
Spurs
Rockets
Hornets
Dallas
Utah

Sweet.

Let's go Mavs :cheer

http://www.spurstalk.com/2006-champion.jpg

[alchemist]

If the Trail Blazers win and the Rockets and Spurs lose, then it's Rockets versus the Spurs in the first round.

If Portland and San Antonio win and the Rockets lose, the Rockets would be fifth and open in Portland.

If Denver and San Antonio win, and the Rockets lose, the Rockets would open against Portland in Houston.


http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2009/04/on_a_roll_the_rockets_will_ope.html


there you go. hopefully anyone of those combos happen.

[NewJerSpur]

Damn my head hurts.

[Frenzy]

man the play offs in the west will be alot more heart attack worthy than the east. Cant wait!!

[Mavs<Spurs]

Actually, here's the rub: If Portland wins, San Antonio wins and the Rockets lose, there would be a 3 way tie between Denver-Portland-San Antonio... that's why the multi team tie rules apply...

However, all 3 teams currently are 53 wins and 28 losses.

So, if Portland wins, San Antonio wins and Houston loses, then San Antonio has a record of 54 wins 28 losses, Portland has a record of 54 wins 28 losses and Houston has a record of 53 wins 29 losses.

So, there would be a 2 way tiebreaker which Portland would win.

Then, we would become the fourth seed.

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

:flag:

[ElNono]

If Portland and San Antonio win and the Rockets lose, the Rockets would be fifth and open in Portland.


See? That means the Spurs would get the #3 seed

[Mavs<Spurs]

yes, you would get your wish

Lakers
Denver
Blazers
Spurs
Rockets
Hornets
Dallas
Utah

that's what I got also. Check.

:flag:

Go Spurs !

Go _allas for one game !

Go Spurstalk !

[alchemist]

See? That means the Spurs would get the #3 seed
yep, all this seeding bullshit made my head hurt though :lol

[ElNono]

However, all 3 teams currently are 53 wins and 28 losses.

So, if Portland wins, San Antonio wins and Houston loses, then San Antonio has a record of 54 wins 28 losses, Portland has a record of 54 wins 28 losses and Houston has a record of 53 wins 29 losses.

So, there would be a 2 way tiebreaker which Portland would win.

Then, we would become the fourth seed.

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

:flag:

You forget that if Portland wins, Denver also falls to 54-28, making it a 3 team tie...

[kobyz]

yes, you would get your wish

Lakers
Denver
Blazers
Spurs
Rockets
Hornets
Dallas
Utah

i think the spurs will be 3 seed cause they will be division champion

[Mugen]

You forget that if Portland wins, Denver also falls to 54-28, making it a 3 team tie...

if portland beats denver then what is their head 2 head record?

edit: just checked it, if portland beats denver then they split their season series. do you know who would win the division if this happens??

im so damn confused

[ElNono]

if portland beats denver then what is their head 2 head record?

Denver has more wins against the Division, so they win that tiebreaker...

[Mavs<Spurs]

See? That means the Spurs would get the #3 seed

But this is incorrect.

We have agreed that the rules posted are current and accurate.

According to those rules, if Portland and San Antonio win and Houston loses, then Portland is the number three seed because of the head to head 3 to 1 regular season series that they won against us.

San Antonio would have a better record than Houston. Thus, San Antonio would be the fourth seed.

This would leave Houston as the fifth seed.

This is simply an application of those rules in order.

And the fourth seed plays the fifth seed. So, that means that San Antonio would play Houston and San Antonio would have hca.


:toast

:flag:

[NewJerSpur]

Denver has more wins against the Division, so they win that tiebreaker...

So again, would that mean if SA win, Portland wins, and Houston loses that we get the #3 seed?

[ElNono]

There's nothing incorrect. The trick here is that if there's a three way tie, and there will be in that scenerio, you need to apply the alternate rules, whose first tie breaker go to division champs.

[ElNono]

So again, would that mean if SA win, Portland wins, and Houston loses that we get the #3 seed?

I think so, because you would need to apply the three way tie rules. Furthermore, we now have the San Antonio, Houston and Portland guys all confirming this.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Denver has more wins against the Division, so they win that tiebreaker...

That is a true statement.

Denver has a 12-3 record in Division.

Portland has a 10-5 record in Division.

A Portland loss to Denver would mean that Denver would have a 12-4 division record and Portland would have an 11-5 division record.

So, Denver would still have the better division record even if they lose to Portland in their last game.

Basically, Denver keeps the number two seed if they win against Portland.
However, Houston has the tiebreaker if Houston and Denver are in a 2 way tie. I have confirmed this. Houston won the regular season series 2 to 1. Thus, if Houston and Denver have identical records at the end of the season, Houston gets the better seed, providing that it is only a 2 way tie.

:flag:

:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

There's nothing incorrect. The trick here is that if there's a three way tie, and there will be in that scenerio, you need to apply the alternate rules, whose first tie breaker go to division champs.

But Houston losing while Portland and San Antonio winning would leave Houston at 53 wins 29 losses and San Antonio and Portland would both have records of 54 wins 28 losses.

Thus, there would not be a 3 way tie. Rather, there would be a 2 way tie which Portland would win.

The current record of all 3 teams is 53 wins 28 losses.

:toast

:flag:

[Mel_13]

Thanks to McDonald, I've got the same headache others have when looking at this stuff. But, I'm going to take one more shot at making the various scenarios easier to digest.

First off, forget about Denver. They have clinched their division and there is one, and only one, scenario in which they fall from second seed to the third seed. In a 4-way tie, the seeds are Houston, Denver, Blazers, Spurs. In every other scenario, Denver is the 2 seed.

If the Spurs lose, they are the 5 seed. Period.

If the Spurs, Blazers, and Rockets all win, the Spurs are 5th and play the Blazers

If the Spurs win, and the Rockets and Blazers both lose, the Spurs are 3rd and play the Mavs.

If the Spurs and the Rockets win while the Blazers lose, the Spurs are 4th and play the Blazers

If the Spurs and the Blazers win while the Rockets lose (the TIMVP scenario), the Spurs are 4th and play the Rockets.

Thanks for your work here Mavs<Spurs

[Mavs<Spurs]

I think so, because you would need to apply the three way tie rules. Furthermore, we now have the San Antonio, Houston and Portland guys all confirming this.

But there would not be a 3 way tie.

There would only be a 2 way tie with Portland and San Antonio having records of 54 wins 28 losses and Houston having a record of 53 wins 29 losses.

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

That's the official NBA.com listing of standings and records. It is updated to include the most recent results.

:flag:

[ElNono]

But Houston losing while Portland and San Antonio winning would leave Houston at 53 wins 29 losses and San Antonio and Portland would both have records of 54 wins 28 losses.

Thus, there would not be a 3 way tie. Rather, there would be a 2 way tie which Portland would win.

The current record of all 3 teams is 53 wins 28 losses.

:toast

:flag:

Portland winning implies Denver losing. Now go take a look at Denver record and see what it would look like if they lost one more game. Now compare against the Portland and Spurs record, adding one win to them. The three way tie would be between Denver-Portland-San Antonio. Houston doesn't enter the picture here.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Thanks to McDonald, I've got the same headache others have when looking at this stuff. But, I'm going to take one more shot at making the various scenarios easier to digest.

First off, forget about Denver. They have clinched their division and there is one, and only one, scenario in which they fall from second seed to the third seed. In a 4-way tie, the seeds are Houston, Denver, Blazers, Spurs. In every other scenario, Denver is the 2 seed.

If the Spurs lose, they are the 5 seed. Period.

If the Spurs, Blazers, and Rockets all win, the Spurs are 5th and play the Blazers

If the Spurs win, and the Rockets and Blazers both lose, the Spurs are 3rd and play the Hornets

If the Spurs and the Rockets win while the Blazers lose, the Spurs are 4th and play the Blazers

If the Spurs and the Blazers win while the Rockets lose (the TIMVP scenario), the Spurs are 4th and play the Rockets.

Thanks for your work here Mavs<Spurs

Perfect !

Thanks for the encouragement!

Go Spurs !

Go _allas ! * (for one game only)

Go Spurstalk !

and Mavs are still less than the Spurs !

:flag:

[timvp]

Thanks to McDonald, I've got the same headache others have when looking at this stuff. But, I'm going to take one more shot at making the various scenarios easier to digest.

First off, forget about Denver. They have clinched their division and there is one, and only one, scenario in which they fall from second seed to the third seed. In a 4-way tie, the seeds are Houston, Denver, Blazers, Spurs. In every other scenario, Denver is the 2 seed.

If the Spurs lose, they are the 5 seed. Period.

If the Spurs, Blazers, and Rockets all win, the Spurs are 5th and play the Blazers

If the Spurs win, and the Rockets and Blazers both lose, the Spurs are 3rd and play the Hornets

If the Spurs and the Rockets win while the Blazers lose, the Spurs are 4th and play the Blazers

If the Spurs and the Blazers win while the Rockets lose (the TIMVP scenario), the Spurs are 4th and play the Rockets.

Thanks for your work here Mavs<SpursNice. I don't see any Spurs vs. Mavs matchup so that's good news at least.

[HarlemHeat37]

how is that possible though?..

if the Rockets lose, that would mean the Mavs won..and if we won, that would mean New Orleans lost..

so that would put us at 3rd, and Dallas at 6th..

[ElNono]

Lol guys... Lets do it a bit more clear:

Denver: 54-27 => LOSE => 54-28
Portland: 53-28 => WIN => 54-28
Spurs: 53-28 => WIN => 54-28

See te 3 team tie now? And if we apply the three team tiebreaker...

[Longley]

Oh man, its sick. After 81 games and its still open every way.:D

[Mel_13]

how is that possible though?..

if the Rockets lose, that would mean the Mavs won..and if we won, that would mean New Orleans lost..

so that would put us at 3rd, and Dallas at 6th..

You're right. I give up. I'm going to edit my post and get some sleep. Sorry TimVP, we can play the Mavs.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Portland winning implies Denver losing. Now go take a look at Denver record and see what it would look like if they lost one more game. Now compare against the Portland and Spurs record, adding one win to them. The three way tie would be between Denver-Portland-San Antonio. Houston doesn't enter the picture here.

I thought that you were thinking of Houston.

Denver would be hold the 2 way tiebreaker against Portland.

Now, a question I have is this: Denver would ultimately get the tiebreaker against Portland. So, Denver would win its division. So, Denver would be considered a division winner like San Antonio. When does this placement take place ?

My answer would be after the first clear division winner has been placed at the top.

In that case, San Antonio would be the number 2 seed.
Denver would be the # 3 seed.
Portland would be the #4 seed.
Houston would be the #5 seed.

However, I am far from certain about this. I want to be clear when I am not certain about the results. And this is one of those times.

Good catch about the Denver/San Antonio/Portland 3 way tie. As we had been talking about that so much, I simply made an incorrect assumption that you were continuing to think about Houston.

:toast

:flag:

[Mavs<Spurs]

Lol guys... Lets do it a bit more clear:

Denver: 54-27 => LOSE => 54-28
Portland: 53-28 => WIN => 54-28
Spurs: 53-28 => WIN => 54-28

See te 3 team tie now? And if we apply the three team tiebreaker...

This is correct.

There would be 3 teams Denver, Portland and San Antonio with records of 54-28.

Since you mentioned Houston losing and we had been posting so much about Houston being involved in these tiebreakers, I made an unwarranted assumption.

Houston would not be part of a 3 way tie in that scenario.
However, I was incorrect when I said that there would not be a 3 way tie in that scenario. There would be but with the teams of Denver, Portland and San Antonio like you wrote !

Good work !


:flag:

[ElNono]

I'm fairly sure that the tie breaker says that division winners must be determined, so that would mean that Denver and SA are the winner and you apply the rest of the tie breaker against eachother. Denver wins out on that. So it would be as McDonalds reported:

2 - Denver
3 - San Antonio
4 - Blazers

That said, there's one other tricky scenerio: If HOU, SA and POR all win, then we would end up like this:

2 - HOU
3 - DEN
4 - POR
5 - SA

That would be a 4 team tie right there...

[HarlemHeat37]

before reading all this, I was hoping we play Houston..so Spurs win, Blazers win, and Rockets lose..simple enough, right? if I'm wrong, I give up..

[Longley]

I hope also we will play with Houston.:)

[Mavs<Spurs]

I'm fairly sure that the tie breaker says that division winners must be determined, so that would mean that Denver and SA are the winner and you apply the rest of the tie breaker against eachother. Denver wins out on that. So it would be as McDonalds reported:

2 - Denver
3 - San Antonio
4 - Blazers

That said, there's one other tricky scenerio: If HOU, SA and POR all win, then we would end up like this:

2 - HOU
3 - DEN
4 - POR
5 - SA

That would be a 4 team tie right there...

I agree with you about both of these scenarios.

Excellent !

:toast

:flag:

My apologies for my mistake about a 2 way when you were right that it would be a 3 way. Thanks for pointing that out and catching it.

[024]

i just noticed something already mentioned. spurs can end up playing dallas in the first round, which would be kind of bad. if the spurs get the 3rd seed, they would have to beat NO and the mavs would have to beat the rockets. this in turn will give the mavs the 6th seed and the spurs the 3rd seed.

[024]

now that i think about it again, i rather the spurs face dallas in the first round than face the lakers in the second. i want either houston or portland to play the lakers in the second round. so.. spurs win and dallas win ought to do it? unless there interference from portland beating the nuggets.

[crc21209]

i just noticed something already mentioned. spurs can end up playing dallas in the first round, which would be kind of bad. if the spurs get the 3rd seed, they would have to beat NO and the mavs would have to beat the rockets. this in turn will give the mavs the 6th seed and the spurs the 3rd seed.

Correct.

1. Spurs win, Rockets loss= 3 seed Spurs vs. 6 seed Dallas (regardless of what happens with Portland)

2. Spurs win, Rockets win, Blazers win= 4 seed Blazers vs. 5 seed Spurs

3. Spurs win, Rockets win, Blazers loss= 4 seed Spurs vs. 5 seed Blazers

4. Spurs loss= 5th seed.

[TheDarkSide.]

i'm willing to take the risk of playing dallas for sure, i want houston or portland playing LA in round 2 and maybe a miracle can go down having either portland or houston beating them. Then spurs would have HCA vs either 4 or 5. my hopes.

[024]

Correct.

1. Spurs win, Rockets loss= 3 seed Spurs vs. 6 seed Dallas (regardless of what happens with Portland)

2. Spurs win, Rockets win, Blazers win= 4 seed Blazers vs. 5 seed Spurs

3. Spurs win, Rockets win, Blazers loss= 4 seed Spurs vs. 5 seed Blazers

4. Spurs loss= 5th seed.

fuck it. i didn't like the spurs playing dallas at first but if the spurs can't beat the mavs, they won't be beating any other team in the playoffs. spurs at #3 seed against mavs at #6 is my view as the best option. this lets the blazers or rockets challenge the lakers and also gives the spurs an even matchup against the nuggets.

[ElNono]

I agree with you about both of these scenarios.

Excellent !

:toast

:flag:

My apologies for my mistake about a 2 way when you were right that it would be a 3 way. Thanks for pointing that out and catching it.

Please, no apologies necessary. This thing is mind-boggling. I went to sleep after my last post with a headache.

One neat tidbit about the #3 seed scenario is that we would actually could have been the #2 seed if we didn't tank that game against Denver. But then we would need to play NO instead of Dallas, so I'm not sure it's really a plus.

[Mel_13]

There was much discussion in the wee hours over whether a new tiebreaker rule reported by McDonald actually existed or not. Under the rule he reported, if the Spurs and Portland finished tied at 54-28, with Houston at 53-29. The Spurs would get the 3 seed while Portland would the 4 seed despite Portland having won the season series 3-1.

Among others, I concluded that McDonald was wrong. I could not find any mention of this new tiebreaker on NBA.com or any source more reliable than the man who reported that TP was only the 26th guard in NBA history to reach 10000 points, as well as numerous other factual inaccuracies.

But, this morning I found this on NBA.com

TIEBREAKER BASIS:
(-) Tie breaker not needed (better overall winning percentage)
(1) Division leader wins tie from team not leading a division
(2) Head-to-head won-lost percentage
(3) Division won-lost percentage
(4) Conference won-lost percentage
(5) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, own conference
(6) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, other conference
(7) Net Points, all games

So there it is, McDonald was right

If the Spurs and Blazers win while the Rockets lose:
1 Lakers
2 Nuggets
3 Spurs
4 Blazers
5 Rockets
6 Mavs

7 Hornets (if lakers beat Jazz)
8 Jazz

7 Jazz (if Jazz beat Lakers)
8 Hornets

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

[Agloco]

Spurs fans:

Games that matter for the Spurs tonight include the Hornets v. Houston. A Hornet win helps two ways. In addition to the obvious benefit of Houston loss, a win for the Hornets guarantees that they cannot fall to the 8 seed and so would have little or nothing to play for in the last game against the Spurs.

Also root for Cleveland to wrap up HCA thru the NBA finals with a win tonight against Indiana. A Cleveland win tonight makes the Laker season finale tomorrow against Utah a meaningless game for the Lakers. A win by Utah tomorrow makes the Dallas/Houston game on Wednesday critical to the Mavs to avoid the 8 seed. If Utah loses tomorrow, the Mavs will clinch a spot in the 6th or 7th seed and have little to play for against Houston.

:toast

Well thought out. Forget all of those other scenarios. This neatly sums up who we should be rooting for.

[Agloco]

There was much discussion in the wee hours over whether a new tiebreaker rule reported by McDonald actually existed or not. Under the rule he reported, if the Spurs and Portland finished tied at 54-28, with Houston at 53-29. The Spurs would get the 3 seed while Portland would the 4 seed despite Portland having won the season series 3-1.

Among others, I concluded that McDonald was wrong. I could not find any mention of this new tiebreaker on NBA.com or any source more reliable than the man who reported that TP was only the 26th guard in NBA history to reach 10000 points, as well as numerous other factual inaccuracies.

But, this morning I found this on NBA.com

TIEBREAKER BASIS:
(-) Tie breaker not needed (better overall winning percentage)
(1) Division leader wins tie from team not leading a division
(2) Head-to-head won-lost percentage
(3) Division won-lost percentage
(4) Conference won-lost percentage
(5) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, own conference
(6) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, other conference
(7) Net Points, all games

So there it is, McDonald was right

If the Spurs and Blazers win while the Rockets lose:
1 Lakers
2 Nuggets
3 Spurs
4 Blazers
5 Rockets
6 Mavs

7 Hornets (if lakers beat Jazz)
8 Jazz

7 Jazz (if Jazz beat Lakers)
8 Hornets

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

You're also right about this. The Spurs by having won the division would get the higher seed. But interestingly enough, if the Blazers and Spurs were to meet in the playoffs under those seedings, the Blazers would have HCA due to the original tiebreaker win. A higher seeding DOES NOT imply HCA.

[ElNono]

There was much discussion in the wee hours over whether a new tiebreaker rule reported by McDonald actually existed or not. Under the rule he reported, if the Spurs and Portland finished tied at 54-28, with Houston at 53-29. The Spurs would get the 3 seed while Portland would the 4 seed despite Portland having won the season series 3-1.

Among others, I concluded that McDonald was wrong. I could not find any mention of this new tiebreaker on NBA.com or any source more reliable than the man who reported that TP was only the 26th guard in NBA history to reach 10000 points, as well as numerous other factual inaccuracies.

But, this morning I found this on NBA.com

TIEBREAKER BASIS:
(-) Tie breaker not needed (better overall winning percentage)
(1) Division leader wins tie from team not leading a division
(2) Head-to-head won-lost percentage
(3) Division won-lost percentage
(4) Conference won-lost percentage
(5) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, own conference
(6) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, other conference
(7) Net Points, all games

So there it is, McDonald was right

If the Spurs and Blazers win while the Rockets lose:
1 Lakers
2 Nuggets
3 Spurs
4 Blazers
5 Rockets
6 Mavs

7 Hornets (if lakers beat Jazz)
8 Jazz

7 Jazz (if Jazz beat Lakers)
8 Hornets

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

That's funny. That was the page I was reading last night, and the bolded part you included was only in the case of a multi-team tie. Not anymore I guess. It's not really important anyways because we already determined that there would be a 3 team tie in the scenario where the Spurs would get the #3 seed, so that rule was applying already.

[Mel_13]

You're also right about this. The Spurs by having won the division would get the higher seed. But interestingly enough, if the Blazers and Spurs were to meet in the playoffs under those seedings, the Blazers would have HCA due to the original tiebreaker win. A higher seeding DOES NOT imply HCA.


:lol And the plot thickens.

In the battle to avoid the the Lakers, Utah owns the tiebreakers over both Dallas and NO. So while we may root for the Jazz to win tonight to provide motivation for the Mavs to beat the Rockets Wednesday and avoid the Lakers, that same additional motivation would apply to the Hornets.

[Mavs<Spurs]

There was much discussion in the wee hours over whether a new tiebreaker rule reported by McDonald actually existed or not. Under the rule he reported, if the Spurs and Portland finished tied at 54-28, with Houston at 53-29. The Spurs would get the 3 seed while Portland would the 4 seed despite Portland having won the season series 3-1.

Among others, I concluded that McDonald was wrong. I could not find any mention of this new tiebreaker on NBA.com or any source more reliable than the man who reported that TP was only the 26th guard in NBA history to reach 10000 points, as well as numerous other factual inaccuracies.

But, this morning I found this on NBA.com

TIEBREAKER BASIS:
(-) Tie breaker not needed (better overall winning percentage)
(1) Division leader wins tie from team not leading a division
(2) Head-to-head won-lost percentage
(3) Division won-lost percentage
(4) Conference won-lost percentage
(5) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, own conference
(6) W-L Percentage vs. Playoff teams, other conference
(7) Net Points, all games

So there it is, McDonald was right

If the Spurs and Blazers win while the Rockets lose:
1 Lakers
2 Nuggets
3 Spurs
4 Blazers
5 Rockets
6 Mavs

7 Hornets (if lakers beat Jazz)
8 Jazz

7 Jazz (if Jazz beat Lakers)
8 Hornets

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

However, this is from your source. It shows that McDonald is wrong about division leader being a tiebreaker for 2 way ties. So, McDonald is wrong.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

a. Two Teams Tied
(1) Better winning percentage in games against each other.
(2) Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if tied teams are in same division).
(3) Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
(4) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
(5) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in opposite conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
(6) Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents (“point differential”).

b. More Than Two Teams Tied
(1) Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
(2) Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in the same division).
(3) Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
(4) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
(5) Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents (“point differential”).

Since this is from that source, is current, then it appears that the 2 way tiebreaker is not broken through one team being a division leader.

:flag:

[ElNono]

Since this is from that source, is current, then it appears that the 2 way tiebreaker is not broken through one team being a division leader.

:flag:

That's my understanding, and that's what the Portland reporter wrote in his article. A 3 team tie involving Denver and San Antonio automatically makes Portland the #4 seed.

[Mel_13]

However, this is from your source. It shows that McDonald is wrong about division leader being a tiebreaker for 2 way ties. So, McDonald is wrong.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html

a. Two Teams Tied
(1) Better winning percentage in games against each other.
(2) Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if tied teams are in same division).
(3) Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
(4) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
(5) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in opposite conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
(6) Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents (“point differential”).

b. More Than Two Teams Tied
(1) Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.
(2) Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in the same division).
(3) Better winning percentage against teams in own conference.
(4) Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position).
(5) Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents (“point differential”).

Since this is from that source, is current, then it appears that the 2 way tiebreaker is not broken through one team being a division leader.

:flag:

The part I bolded is separate and above the part you reference. I now believe that is the correct interpretation. I really want to believe that McD is wrong, but I think he got this one right. Who knows.

I have also concluded that there only one surefire method to get to the truth:

1. Watch the Spurs play the Hornets (go to the game and cheer if possible)
2. After the Spurs game, switch to ESPN and watch the Portland-Denver game
3. Stay tuned for the postgame on ESPN
4. They will tell us what the matchups will be
5. Jon Barry will provide a detailed case proving the Spurs will lose in the first round no matter what the matchup.

:toast

Go Spurs GO

[DPG21920]

Can we get actual clarification on this?

If the Spurs and Mavs win on Wednesday what happens? Does it matter what Portland/Denver do?

[will_spurs]

Regardless of seeding, that means the Spurs will play either the Blazers or Dallas. No way to get another team? Because that's 2 matchups I don't like...

[timaios]

Can we get actual clarification on this?

If the Spurs and Mavs win on Wednesday what happens? Does it matter what Portland/Denver do?

No it doesn't, if the Spurs and Mavs win on Wednesday, then Spurs will be #3 and Mavs #6. Then 1st round : Spurs vs Mavs.


If the Spurs and Mavs win on Wednesday then
Spurs 54-28
Rockets 53-29
The Spurs win the SW division

Case 1 : Blazers beat Nuggets
Spurs, Blazers & Nuggets are tied at 54-28
2 Nuggets 54-28 (division leader)
3 Spurs 54-28 (division leader)
4 Blazers 54-28
5 Rockets 53-29
6 Mavs 50-32

Case 2 : Nuggets beat Blazers
2 Nuggets 55-27
3 Spurs 54-28
4 Rockets 53-29
5 Blazers 53-29
6 Mavs 50-32

[DPG21920]

Well now I do not know what to root for. Do I take HC and avoid the Lakers until the WCF, but have to face the worst possible opponent in round 1 in the Mavs.

Or do I hope we lose, play Blazers in the first round, then if we win, play the Lakers in the second.

[Brazil]

I'm lost.

Previously on Lost...

I need to root for what ?? To sum up mainly Spurs win and Rockets loss ? Maybe I'll simplify the thing Go Spurs and after well nevermind.

[Brazil]

Well now I do not know what to root for. Do I take HC and avoid the Lakers until the WCF, but have to face the worst possible opponent in round 1 in the Mavs.

Or do I hope we lose, play Blazers in the first round, then if we win, play the Lakers in the second.

man you lost me again... so the spurs need to loose : :lol

Anyway I cannot root for my team loosing so Go Spurs and fuck the rest.

[DPG21920]

man you lost me again... so the spurs need to loose : :lol

Anyway I cannot root for my team loosing so Go Spurs and fuck the rest.

Basically I do not want the Spurs to play the Mavs in the first round, but I also do not want the Spurs to have to play the Lakers until the WCF if possible.

If the Spurs and Dallas win on Wednesday, the Spurs will be the 3rd seed and the Mavs the 6th. If that happens, Spurs play the Mavs in the first round, but would avoid the Lakers until the WCF.

If the Spurs lose, then they would be the 5th seed and avoid the Mavs in the first round, but would have to play the Lakers in the 2nd round (if the Spurs/Lakers get there).

I guess I am going for the Spurs to win and Dallas to win. Might as well take the HC advantage and lessen the travel and let the chips fall where they may.

[ElNono]

I guess I am going for the Spurs to win and Dallas to win. Might as well take the HC advantage and lessen the travel and let the chips fall where they may.

This is the picture I'm painting as most favorable too. I think ideally we would like to play Dallas, and if we advance, Houston (don't know if this is possible as far as current standings and seeding goes), while the Lakers have to travel and play against Utah/Portland/NO, etc.

[Road Warrior]

I'm hoping for a Utah win tonight and a Spurs, blazers, and mavs win tomorrow. If that happens the match-ups would look like this:

1.Lakers
2.Nugges
3.Spurs
4.Blazers
5.Rockets
6.Mavs
7.Jazz
8.Hornets


If this happens the Spurs would get to play Dallas with HCA (and shorter travel) and we get to avoid the Lakers until the WCF. Also I wouldn't be surprised if Utah knocked off Denver which would mean a second round match with Utah with HCA and the Jazz haven't won in SA in like a million years so you would have to believe we would take care of the Jazz. So potentially the Spurs could play the Mavs and the Jazz with HCA in both series while the Lakers would have to play New Orleans and Portland in the first two rounds which are probably the two teams that give LA the most trouble.

[DPG21920]

This is the picture I'm painting as most favorable too. I think ideally we would like to play Dallas, and if we advance, Houston (don't know if this is possible as far as current standings and seeding goes), while the Lakers have to travel and play against Utah/Portland/NO, etc.

No, if the Spurs were to be the 3rd seed, then in the 2nd round they would play the winner of the NO/Nuggets.

The winner of the Portland/Houston series would play the winner of the Lakers/Utah.

[Brazil]

I guess I am going for the Spurs to win and Dallas to win. Might as well take the HC advantage and lessen the travel and let the chips fall where they may.


Ok deal done Spurs and Dallas Win !

[Trimble87]

Ok. So today at work I have been trying to wrap my head around all the different scenarios for the 2-8 seeds in the west. Where the spurs end up doesnt really bother me, 3-4-5 is all fine. I'm actually coming to like the potential semi-finals match up with the lakers.

What I've become very interested in is the 6-8 spots. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the Jazz win tonight against LA, the Mavs win against Houtston on Wednesday and we beat the Hornets on Wednesday that would put the Hornets in the 8th seed correct?

If so then OMFG Go Mavs/Jazz go!!! We need the Lakers to go through the hardest schedule possible, and it doesent get much harder then NO in the first round.

*edit* just read some of the latest posts to confirm the Hornets being the 8th seed is correct in this scenario.

[ElNono]

No, if the Spurs were to be the 3rd seed, then in the 2nd round they would play the winner of the NO/Nuggets.

The winner of the Portland/Houston series would play the winner of the Lakers/Utah.

Ok then... I would prefer Dallas->Nuggets... I would just rather avoid teams that play too physical or involve lots of traveling early on. Just to have Tim recover those knees a little better in between games.

[DPG21920]

I will officially not be sleeping for the next two nights.

[benefactor]

I will officially not be sleeping for the next two nights.
It started last night for me.....

[sribb43]

I would love a Mavs/Spurs playoff series...even though Spurs will probably come out on top it would still be a closely contested series and this would just add to the history between the teams....Mavs/Nuggs or Mavs/Lakers does nothing for me

GO MAVS and GO SPURS so we can meet in the 1st round

[Josepatches_]

But this is incorrect.

We have agreed that the rules posted are current and accurate.

According to those rules, if Portland and San Antonio win and Houston loses, then Portland is the number three seed because of the head to head 3 to 1 regular season series that they won against us.

San Antonio would have a better record than Houston. Thus, San Antonio would be the fourth seed.

This would leave Houston as the fifth seed.

This is simply an application of those rules in order.

And the fourth seed plays the fifth seed. So, that means that San Antonio would play Houston and San Antonio would have hca.


:toast

:flag:


Fail.
McDonald was wrong.
But that situation can't happen because Portland won so Denver lost

[Mavs<Spurs]

Fail.
McDonald was wrong.
But that situation can't happen because Portland won so Denver lost
**************************************************
Here is my post:

Originally Posted by Mavs<Spurs View Post


But this is incorrect.

We have agreed that the rules posted are current and accurate.

According to those rules, if Portland and San Antonio win and Houston loses, then Portland is the number three seed because of the head to head 3 to 1 regular season series that they won against us.

San Antonio would have a better record than Houston. Thus, San Antonio would be the fourth seed.

This would leave Houston as the fifth seed.

This is simply an application of those rules in order.

And the fourth seed plays the fifth seed. So, that means that San Antonio would play Houston and San Antonio would have hca.

************************************************

So, the question is what is that referring to ? What is the antecedent of that situation ? Is it what I wrote (ie those events) ? Is it the events McDonald wrote ?

What you quoted from me clearly could and did happen. So, that is obviously not an impossible situation. So, hopefully you are not referring to that.


I never read the article by McDonald and have not been an apologist for him. Now, my main contention regarding McDonald is that if McDonald said being the division champ is a way to break a 2 way tie, then he is incorrect.

What others have asserted that McDonald wrote is that if the Spurs won and Houston lost, then San Antonio is guaranteed the number three seed regardless of whether or not Portland wins.

And this actually appears to be a true statement. We begin with our assumption that San Antonio wins and Houston loses. Now, either Portland beats Denver or Denver beats Portland.

Now, remember we are discussing the second, third and fourth playoff seeds.

1. If Portland beats Denver, then there is a 3 way tie between Denver, Portland and San Antonio since all 3 would have a 54 win 28 loss record. Because it is a 3 way tie, then division champ is a way to decide the tiebreak.

Denver holds the tiebreak against Portland even if Portland beat Denver. So, Denver gets the number 2 seed since they are a division champ. The first thing we do is decide the division champs. They are Denver and San Antonio respectively.

Now, Denver also holds the 2 way tiebreaker against San Antonio.

This can only mean that Denver must hold the number 2 seed. And since San Antonio is a division champ and Portland is not, San Antonio must get the very next seed. So, San Antonio gets the third seed.

And since Portland won their game against Denver, their record again is 54 wins 28 losses. However, Houston's record is 53 wins 29 losses. Therefore, Portland is a higher seed than Houston. Thus, Portland is the fourth seed and Houston is the fifth seed.

So in case I, where Portland wins, San Antonio does end up with the third seed. Just like McDonald apparently wrote.

Let us consider case II. We start with our same supposition: San Antonio won and Houston lost. Supposed that Portland lost to Denver. Denver has a 55 win 27 loss record, better than every team's record other than LA in the West. Notice that San Antonio has a record of 54 wins 28 losses. However, since Portland and Houston both lost, they have both have records of 53 wins and 29 losses. Since Denver's record is worse than LA but better than all the other teams in the Western Conference, Denver must hold the number two seed. And since San Antonio's record is not as good as Denver's but is better than Houston and Portland as well as the rest of the West, then San Antonio must hold the number three seed. Next, we are considering who wins the fourth seed. We are only settling a 2 way tiebreak here. In this series of outcomes, there is only a 2 way tiebreak (there is not three way tiebreak).
To break the 2 way tiebreak, next we look at head to head records between Portland and Houston. Houston has the better head to head record. Thus, Houston gets the fourth seed. This means that Portland has the fifth seed since it has a better record than all the remaining teams in the Western Conference.

Now, our objective in considering this case is to see if San Antonio would emerge from that scenario (Portland losing to Denver, San Antonio winning and Houston losing) with the third seed. We just saw that San Antonio would emerge from this scenario with the third seed.

So, in case I and in case II, San Antonio emerges with the third seed. Now, if San Antonio wins and Houston loses, there are only two possibilities: either Portland beats Denver or Portland loses to Denver. Thus, cases I and II comprise all of the possibilities if San Antonio wins and Denver loses.
Yet, in both cases, San Antonio grabs hold of the third seed. Hence, if San Antonio wins and Houston loses, San Antonio is the third seed and note that this is the outcome whether Portland beats Denver or not.

Therefore, if McDonald simply wrote that if San Antonio wins and Houston loses, then San Antonio becomes the third seed irregardless of whether or not Portland beats Denver, then McDonald is correct. For, as we saw in our analysis of the cases, San Antonio does emerge with the third seed no matter what happens with Portland and Dener


Now, I have not read much if any writing by McDonald on this topic. However, again, if McDonald wrote the following syllogism (San Antonio win, Houston loss implies San Antonio wins the third seed, then McDonald is correct as we have seen.

If one wants to disprove what McDonald wrote, then one must quote the mistakes by McDonald and prove that they are errors.You not only failed to do this, it looks as if McDonald is correct.


Therefore, McDonald appears to be correct if his only assertion was that if San Antonio wins, Houston loses means that San Antonio obtains the third seed

Therefore, your assertion that McDonald was wrong appears to be incorrect.