So is George Hill done for the season?

[GSH]

I'm seriously interested in hearing what the rest of you think. Has Pop settled on Mason as the backup PG? Is Hill going to get any minutes in the playoffs, other than garbage time, or maybe a 2-4 minute defensive stint? I know the injuries have forced Pop to be playing with rotations this late in the season, but it looks to me like George is in the basement of the doghouse.

So the question isn't whether you think Hill should be getting minutes at the point, but "Do you think Pop will give him any minutes from here on out?"

[HarlemHeat37]

no..I don't see any reason to think he'll get anything more than spot minutes once in a while..

[lefty]

I'm seriously interested in hearing what the rest of you think. Has Pop settled on Mason as the backup PG? Is Hill going to get any minutes in the playoffs, other than garbage time, or maybe a 2-4 minute defensive stint? I know the injuries have forced Pop to be playing with rotations this late in the season, but it looks to me like George is in the basement of the doghouse.

So the question isn't whether you think Hill should be getting minutes at the point, but "Do you think Pop will give him any minutes from here on out?"
Fuck !

You scared me with that title :bang

[timvp]

Only way Hill gets back into the rotation is if Pop gets desperate and the Spurs are about to get eliminated.

[DPG21920]

Only way Hill gets back into the rotation is if Pop gets desperate and the Spurs are about to get eliminated.

So you're telling me there's a chance!

[justinandimcool]

It's a shame. He would've really bolstered our bench. He went from being a great back-up PG to a specialist 4th quarter stopper for a few games. Now he's treated like garbage. He must've had some really awful practices to deserve this.

[jason1301]

Yeap, I don't see him having any significant role this year, but I am very excited to see him next year.

I say he goes:

Pts 11
Reb 4
Ast 3

:downspin:

[superbigtime]

Like it or not, it looks like Mason is the backup PG and Hill's minutes are gonna be spotty. The offense is at a disadvantage with Mason as backup because we have no one who can penetrate and kick out; he's also not the best ball handler.

Mason had a great game tonight though, and he's not struggling as much as earlier in the season. However, I think Hill has the ability to get to the rim and either score or find the open man. When Tony finds Roger in this manner, he is highly effective and we saw that happen alot tonight.

Spurs need RMJ to have more games like this. Hill has been relegated to spot minutes. He's not 'done' but he isn't at the level he should be IMO for a host of reasons.

[EricB]

He might get minutes tommarow night.

Doubtfull though.


Beno Udrih ruined George Hill's chances.

[HarlemHeat37]

Mason has actually looked good as the backup PG in every game since Manu returned..

the only thing I want Hill for is his D, because it would be a huge asset..

at least we got to see his potential this year..very nice for a guy still learning how to convert to the PG position in the NBA..

[ElNono]

You could tell midway through March when he got yanked out of the usual rotation that he was gonna warm up the bench. Now, if I'm George, I have no regrets and nothing to feel bad about. I thought he had a very good rookie season. And everything he experiences during the playoffs is going to be great for him.

[ElNono]

Mason has actually looked good as the backup PG in every game since Manu returned..


I disagree. I actually thought he was pretty horrible tonight.

[Libri]

I don't think Hill will get significant minutes in the playoffs.

[pjjrfan]

Hill is done, and I don't know why really, the guy played some solid D and aside from not looking for his shot played well, not great but held his own. Does anyone know what exactly he did so wrong to have gone from a promising backup to a DNP-CD regular.

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree. I actually thought he was pretty horrible tonight.

it depends what you mean..

he's NEVER going to look good as a pure PG..he can't make passes, and he doesn't penetrate well enough..

I didn't mean he looked good as a PG, I meant he's been playing well since Manu's been out, even when he's been playing the PG position..

[ElNono]

it depends what you mean..

he's NEVER going to look good as a pure PG..he can't make passes, and he doesn't penetrate well enough..

I didn't mean he looked good as a PG, I meant he's been playing well since Manu's been out, even when he's been playing the PG position..

He's just been having more minutes... about 10 more minutes, and the ball in his hands more. He's been taking more shots too, obviously. He's still a good shooter, there's no denying that. But as a playmaker, whenever Tony goes to the bench there's a major drop. Like you said, he can't penetrate or make passes, which are the main functions of a PG. We're basically reduced to a pick n roll offense and three point shots when he's running the show. The moment some team realizes they can pressure him and get the ball out of his hands, we're done offensively.

[EricB]

While Mason looked bad as the back up point tonight I thought he looked great as the back up point against Utah.

He was just looking for his shot alot tonight wich IMO is a great thing.

Roger Mason Jr is in a good groove right now and hope it keeps goin.

[ElNono]

While Mason looked bad as the back up point tonight I thought he looked great as the back up point against Utah.

He was just looking for his shot alot tonight wich IMO is a great thing.

Roger Mason Jr is in a good groove right now and hope it keeps goin.

Plus short of George Hill (whose defense is great, but playmaking abilities are suspect) and Vaughn (please retire already), we don't really have anybody else. So we really don't have much of a choice.

[Capt Bringdown]

Only way Hill gets back into the rotation is if Pop gets desperate and the Spurs are about to get eliminated.

I don't see how playing Hill would be a mark of desperation. No doubt Pop thinks it is, but completely freezing out player who has performed adequately during the regular season might be seen to be a bit strange, rather than desperate. Hill's not that bad a player to rank as a desperation move.

At any rate, we are desperate. We're firmly in "it's gonna take a miracle" mode. With Manu out, we'll have to depend on folks stepping up. Why limit our options at this point, what have we got to lose?

Hill is not Beno, and will not meltdown in the playoffs...or will he? We'll never get the chance to find out, because Pop seems to be frozen in fear and stubborness.

Fact is, if we've got any chance at the "believe" scenario, we'll need contributions from EVERYONE, including Hill.

[Dex]

I don't think Hill gets a serious role this year, but I have the feeling he will give one go0d spark in this playoff run. Just a hunch.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, if teams in the playoffs really pressure Mason he could end up looking like Udrih v2.0. Let's just hope his shot continues to drop. His shooting was cold-blooded tonight.

Weird observation on Hill - about 30 minutes after the Utah game I saw him standing by himself up in the Mezzanine section. Most players that were still around were talking to fans or friends they knew who had stuck around. Hill was like 30 rows up by himself. Not sure what he was doing. It looked sort of sad, but maybe he was just reflecting on his season so far, or something.

[Capt Bringdown]

Shortening the rotation for the playoffs is a standard move - however, Pop's getting too cute with it.

However, when you don't have a full complement of players, you might just have to go a little bit farther down your rotation - that's also also standard basketball 101, isn't it?

We're going to need some heroics, but Pop has concluded that Hill doesn't deserve a chance. Hope our short-handed veteran squad is up to it. No rookies allowed in Pop's playoff plans, brilliant!

[EricB]

Shortening the rotation for the playoffs is a standard move - however, Pop's getting too cute with it.

When you don't have a full complement of players, you might just have to go a little bit farther down your rotation - that's also also standard basketball 101, isn't it?


Uhm, whats he getting cute with?

Isn't shortening your bench basketball 101 as well?

[Fabbs]

So you're telling me there's a chance!
:lol:lol:lol
You know Hills got a chance with this guy at the helm.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/88-1.jpg

[EricB]

John Lucas > Pop

Yeah Fabbs we got it, you hate pop because he ran over your dog.

Time to move on.

[Spur|n|Austin]

He might get minutes tommarow night.

Doubtfull though.


Beno Udrih ruined George Hill's chances.

I don't think Beno necessarily ruined his chances. Most intelligent coaches will tell you that you can't really rely or trust a rookie in the playoffs.

[Indazone]

Hill is a rookie and Pop likes to go with Vets @ playoff time. I think that Hill will get his minutes next year. Probably in 2011 he will move up when a veteran guard retires, is traded or leaves.

[Mel_13]

Shortening the rotation for the playoffs is a standard move - however, Pop's getting too cute with it.

When you don't have a full complement of players, you might just have to go a little bit farther down your rotation - that's also also standard basketball 101, isn't it?

It looks like this year's playoff rotation will already be longer than Pop has typically used in recent years. He has typically used 7+ man rotation, with 3 players at the 4/5, three players at the 2/3, Tony playing major minutes and a backup pg playing very limited minutes.

This year it looks like he will play 9 deep with TD, Bonner, KT and Drew inside and Tony, Mason, Fin, Bruce and Ime on the perimeter. The 5th big (Oberto) and the 6th/7th perimeter players (Hill/JV) won't get much PT.

[Fabbs]

John Lucas > Pop

Yeah Fabbs we got it, you hate pop because he ran over your dog.

Time to move on.
Suggesting Parker gets proper rest is a bad idea to you. Stoopid.
Already one poster stated Duncan was seen seriously looking at Parkers ankle near games end.

Your and Humps oversensitivity and jumping to the defense of anything any poster writes which is less then glittery and glowing for Lord Poppycock is what's time to move.

Nice of you to take a break and post tho.

[EricB]

Suggesting Parker gets proper rest is a bad idea to you. Stoopid.
Already one poster stated Duncan was seen seriously looking at Parkers ankle near games end.

Your and Humps oversensitivity and jumping to the defense of anything any poster writes which is less then glittery and glowing for Lord Poppycock is what's time to move.

Nice of you to take a break and post tho.


When you decide to write like an adult let me know.

Second, Parker was gonna play a shit load of minutes because Duncan and Ginobili were out tonight.

Get a fucking clue.

[EricB]

Hill is a rookie and Pop likes to go with Vets @ playoff time. I think that Hill will get his minutes next year. Probably in 2011 he will move up when a veteran guard retires, is traded or leaves.


I see Hill taking the combo guard role that Mason has now starting next year.

Hopefully this offseason he works on his jumper, gets it more consistent and plays great in summer league.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Didn't we work this out about 2 weeks ago?

[Capt Bringdown]

I don't think Beno necessarily ruined his chances. Most intelligent coaches will tell you that you can't really rely or trust a rookie in the playoffs.

Under normal circumstances, yes. But the Spurs are far from their normal playoff shape and are extremely shorthanded with Manu out.

Extreme times call for risk-taking and creativity. Playing it safe will not produce a miracle run.

Relying on a rookie to play at least specialist spot minutes in the playoffs seems to be a reasonable enough risk at this point.

[Thomas82]

Only way Hill gets back into the rotation is if Pop gets desperate and the Spurs are about to get eliminated.

It's just too bad that Pop just doesn't trust his young players.

[EricB]

It's just too bad that Pop just doesn't trust his young players.


Yeah I wish he'd let Mason and Parker shoot more...

[Fabbs]

When you decide to write like an adult let me know.

Second, Parker was gonna play a shit load of minutes because Duncan and Ginobili were out tonight.

Get a fucking clue.
yes, it was neccessary for Hill to be taken down to zero minutes.
Get a clue, watch the 1st 60 games of the season.
Get more of a clue, watch Parker go down with an injury and the Spurs title chances vs Kings in 2006. Left in with a 20 point lead late 3rd qtr.

When you decide to comprehend like an......nevermind.

[exstatic]

It looks like this year's playoff rotation will already be longer than Pop has typically used in recent years. He has typically used 7+ man rotation, with 3 players at the 4/5, three players at the 2/3, Tony playing major minutes and a backup pg playing very limited minutes.

This year it looks like he will play 9 deep with TD, Bonner, KT and Drew inside and Tony, Mason, Fin, Bruce and Ime on the perimeter. The 5th big (Oberto) and the 6th/7th perimeter players (Hill/JV) won't get much PT.

??? Pop never plays a 7+, more like an 8+ or 9


last year
4 Tim/Horry
5 Oberto/KT
2/3 Bruce/Manu/Fin/Barry
1 Tony + 8 minutes from JV

[EricB]

yes, it was neccessary for Hill to be taken down to zero minutes.
Get a clue, watch the 1st 60 games of the season.
Get more of a clue, watch Parker go down with an injury and the Spurs title chances vs Kings in 2006. Left in with a 20 point lead late 3rd qtr.

When you decide to comprehend like an......nevermind.


Ah so George Hill is the saviour.

I thought it was Drew Gooden?

[Austin_Toros]

This is part of Pop's plan to crush Hill's spirits

[Mel_13]

??? Pop never plays a 7+, more like an 8+ or 9


last year
4 Tim/Horry
5 Oberto/KT
2/3 Bruce/Manu/Fin/Barry
1 Tony + 8 minutes from JV

Guess it depends on how you look at it. If you check the average minutes over the course of the entire playoffs, you are right. There were, however, an inordinate number of blowouts last year. 5 of the 7 games against the Hornets were blowouts, everyone gets minutes in those games.

Compare those averages with the distrubution of minutes in the close games to see how Pop prefers to operate in the postseason. Especially with regard to 4/5 rotation. Check out the box scores for games 1,2, and 5 against PHX, games 3 and 7 against the Hornets and games 1,4 and 5 against the Lakers. Every other game was decided by at least 16 points. In those 8 closest games, the 4th bigs combined for a grand total of 25 minutes or just over 3mpg.

You'll see the same concentration of minutes among the top 4 perimeter players in the close games. JV's minutes in those 8 games:1,0,3,5,1,5,0,0 for a total of 15 in 8 games.

So in the close games, the 4th big played 3 mpg and the 5th perimeter guy played 2 mpg. Kinda like a 7+ rotation.

[NewJerSpur]

He would be nice to see (especially defensively) against a young, athletic team like the Blazers, but with limited playing time down the stretch it's tough to imagine. I do however look forward to him starting with TP at some point in the near future as the jumper gets more accurate and he becomes acclamted enough with the team/system to look for his own offense which would give them the added dimension they lack when Manu is out.

[Chris]

Pop will use him as a shooting guard most likely. With Manu out you're going to have to go to him at some point in the playoffs.

It all depends on how the games go when it comes down to it. If we're down by 10 and Pop wants to throw some random lineup of guards and a power forward, Hill could thrive in that situation and see some serious minutes. Look at Udoka last year against the Hornets.

With Pop it's a "What have you done for me lately?" thing.

[AussieFanKurt]

fuck i want to see george in there and with the same confidence at the start of the season, pity thats gone

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It's just too bad that Pop just doesn't trust his young players.


fuck i want to see george in there and with the same confidence at the start of the season, pity thats gone

Can we just call it Benophobia already, or what?

:lmao

[MoSpur]

So you're telling me there's a chance!

:lmao
Classic Jim Carey line from Dumb and Dumber.

[rascal]

Guess it depends on how you look at it. If you check the average minutes over the course of the entire playoffs, you are right. There were, however, an inordinate number of blowouts last year. 5 of the 7 games against the Hornets were blowouts, everyone gets minutes in those games.

Compare those averages with the distrubution of minutes in the close games to see how Pop prefers to operate in the postseason. Especially with regard to 4/5 rotation. Check out the box scores for games 1,2, and 5 against PHX, games 3 and 7 against the Hornets and games 1,4 and 5 against the Lakers. Every other game was decided by at least 16 points. In those 8 closest games, the 4th bigs combined for a grand total of 25 minutes or just over 3mpg.

You'll see the same concentration of minutes among the top 4 perimeter players in the close games. JV's minutes in those 8 games:1,0,3,5,1,5,0,0 for a total of 15 in 8 games.

So in the close games, the 4th big played 3 mpg and the 5th perimeter guy played 2 mpg. Kinda like a 7+ rotation.

Great post to win the argument against exstatic.

[poop]

Hill is a better PG than mason. he can penetrate, finish and pass, bottom line hes a better playmaker than Mason,not using him as backup PG is simply a dumb decision and thers no really no justification for it other than pop's stubborness.

[DaBears]

Who has been the best spurs player all yr long...

[urunobili]

who has been the best spurs player all yr long...

tp

[EricB]

Hill is a better PG than mason. he can penetrate, finish and pass, bottom line hes a better playmaker than Mason,not using him as backup PG is simply a dumb decision and thers no really no justification for it other than pop's stubborness.


He can pass and penetrate but like Mason, can't finish.

[Bruno]

Pop has been a NBA coach for 13 years. In these 13 years only 3 rookies have played more minutes than Hill. These 3 rookies were Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker.

Even if Pop went away of Hill after the ASB, Hill has played a lot of minutes all things considered. And if Hill isn't a mental midget, being benched at the end of his rookie season won't hurt his career. I fully expect Hill to be a good backup PG next year and Pop sticking with him the whole year.

[Rebounds]

My first post here and I don't mind using it to comment on how Hill is going to contribute in the PO's. I think once he handles the ball better and doesn't get intimidated by a pressuring defense, Pop will use him more. It seems like after his PT was shortened he didn't transition well and lost his rhythm and flow so he ends up forcing much of his game. I sure hope he can like all of a sudden feel confident again because of his young athleticism and no fear of attacking the rim. He just struggles so much getting there with the ball still in his hand.

[Brutalis]

Some of you need to realize Pop and company did not draft Hill over others for no reason. Sucks he isn't getting the work in this year we would like but let him have a summer under the Spurs, it will work out..

i feelz et

[Spurs Brazil]

The big question for me is:

Is Pop done with Hill at PG and he'll become a combo like AD or he'll try again next season after the summer work

[Manufan909]

Pop has been a NBA coach for 13 years. In these 13 years only 3 rookies have played more minutes than Hill. These 3 rookies were Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker.

Even if Pop went away of Hill after the ASB, Hill has played a lot of minutes all things considered. And if Hill isn't a mental midget, being benched at the end of his rookie season won't hurt his career. I fully expect Hill to be a good backup PG next year and Pop sticking with him the whole year.

+1

Hope the Spurs are up/down 25+ at least 5 games in the POs, Hill will get time for sure. Hope he doesn't have to be sg with JV on point.

[SouthTexasRancher]

I'm seriously interested in hearing what the rest of you think. Has Pop settled on Mason as the backup PG? Is Hill going to get any minutes in the playoffs, other than garbage time, or maybe a 2-4 minute defensive stint? I know the injuries have forced Pop to be playing with rotations this late in the season, but it looks to me like George is in the basement of the doghouse.

So the question isn't whether you think Hill should be getting minutes at the point, but "Do you think Pop will give him any minutes from here on out?"

George Hill is too valuable as a Defensive Ace....much like the roll Bowen has played for so long. Or like Michael Cooper with the Showtime Lakers. With the age of Vaughn (most likely becoming an Assistant Coach with somebody next season (Spurs??? if Bud gets a shot at Head Coach with another team). I'm sure that Pop & RC will be on the lookout for a pure Point Guard that can work behind Tony for 2-3 years. Hill can easily be kept as a Utility player who can give you minutes as a backup PG, Shooting Guard or bring him in when your opponent's guards are lightening up the scoreboard. But, bottom line is Hill stays since Pop loves guys who both understand defense and can play defense. Then again he could actually develop into a good PG in a year or two of learning. Just not sure he has the complete package of a PG but, neither did Tony. Tony is still a shoot first PG and he is damn good doing it his way.

[superbigtime]

Why do people repeatedly talk about JV being an assistant coach with the Spurs? What Spurs ever really talk with him other than scrubs like Ime to give the impression that he has a coach-type relationship in progress with the team? I would rather have Eric Snow as an assistant. I'm so ready to never see JV ever again after this season. Why have him stick around?

[Bender]

how long did we sign hill for? can he go somewhere else next season?
If I was him, I would want out, and get on another team.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Why do people repeatedly talk about JV being an assistant coach with the Spurs? What Spurs ever really talk with him other than scrubs like Ime to give the impression that he has a coach-type relationship in progress with the team? I would rather have Eric Snow as an assistant. I'm so ready to never see JV ever again after this season. Why have him stick around?


Because Vaughn has talked about it. Also Pop has indicated Vaughn would make a good coach.

However, I see that you are an EXPERT in such matters so I suggest that you meet the team plane when it arrives after the Golden State game and walk up to Pop, Vaughn and Peter Holt, and tell them you want Vaughn off the team immediately and that Eric Snow should be hired immediately as Pop's #1 Assistant. Yes, that is the solution but, in reality I don't give a damn what you think so stuff it!!!

[Fabbs]

My first post here and I don't mind using it to comment on how Hill is going to contribute in the PO's. I think once he handles the ball better and doesn't get intimidated by a pressuring defense, Pop will use him more. It seems like after his PT was shortened he didn't transition well and lost his rhythm and flow so he ends up forcing much of his game. I sure hope he can like all of a sudden feel confident again because of his young athleticism and no fear of attacking the rim. He just struggles so much getting there with the ball still in his hand.
The key point.

[BackHome]

The keypoint is that Hill can not and will not ever be a good PG. I don't see why we have to try this again we all know how our last tweener AD did and the same thing is going to happen to Hill.

You just can't take a guy who has played SG his whole life and then say "You are a PG now go play in the NBA" it aint going to happen. The kidd is a small SG who is a great defender nothing more.

Watching the games you can tell he has no clue on what he is doing and the offense dies when he is running the point. He does not have the court vision nor does he have the ability to dribble and dish.

The one thing that could work out is if the Spurs draft Nando De Colo who is a pretty good PG they might work well together. Because Nando is 6'5 and a pure PG but does not have the lateral quickness to guard the PG but could hang with SG.....So then Hill can guard the PG...but he has to work on his shot because he has no offense as of now.