Monroe: Pop Says To Get Over Ginobili

[duncan228]

Pop says to get over Ginobili (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Pop_says_to_get_over_Ginobili.html)
Mike Monroe

Though Manu Ginobili remains a supportive presence in the locker room and cheers for his teammates from behind the bench during the games, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich has admonished his players to eliminate Ginobili from their thinking during the Spurs' playoff run.

“We have to be of the mind-set that Manu Ginobili is almost not part of the team, in a crazy sort of way,” Popovich said before Game 1 of the Spurs' first-round playoff series against the Dallas Mavericks. “If we spent any time thinking about Manu, it's going to take away from our group-think, and what we have to do.

“We can't have him in our minds at all. At this point, unfortunately, he has nothing to do with this except support off the court, and that type of thing, which he will do.”

Ginobili was declared out for the season, including the playoffs, after being diagnosed on April 7 with a stress fracture of the right distal fibula. Though the injury is expected to heal with rest and treatment, rather than surgery, Popovich said there was no possibility he would be activated for this year's playoff run, even were it to extend into June.

Popovich stressed that Ginobili is still part of the Spurs' family, but warned that wishful thinking that he might be able to come back for the playoff run would be dangerous.

“We don't want anybody thinking about Manu, or possibilities of (his) coming back, or that sort of thing,” he said. “That's sort of silly.”

3-pointers wasted: The Spurs made an amazing 11 of 14 3-point shots in Saturday's game, more accurate than in any of their 82 regular-season games, but were done in by defensive lapses in the second half.

Michael Finley, the former Mav who made all five of his 3-point attempts, said he had been involved in such games in the past.

“Yeah, during my days in Dallas,” Finley said. We're a team that doesn't put a lot of emphasis on the offensive end. We know in order to win games, especially a series against a good team, it's going to be on the defensive end.”

Roger Mason Jr. made 4 of 7 3-point attempts, but was the only Spur to miss from long range. Both Bruce Bowen and Tony Parker made their lone 3-point attempts.

Quick hook: Ime Udoka was the first Spurs player off the bench Saturday, but he didn't stay on the court for long. Assigned to defend Mavericks super-sub Jason Terry, Udoka lost Terry at the 3-point line on the Mavericks' first possession after he entered the game.

Terry made the 3-pointer, and at the next dead ball opportunity, Popovich replaced Udoka with Bowen. Total time on the court for Udoka's first shift: 50 seconds.

Udoka got back in the game later in the first period. He logged 16 minutes and 14 seconds, scoring three points and grabbing five rebounds.

New-old voice: Kevin Brock, who began the season as the public-address announcer at AT&T Center before suffering two knee injuries while playing basketball on Dec. 20, returned to the microphone.

[braeden0613]

Players to Pop: Get Over Bonner

[timvp]

I hate to say it but ducks has been mentioning that for a while and how continuing to talk about Ginobili when he's out could harm the team's psyche . . . .

[Obstructed_View]

O_V to Pop: Get over thinking your team's success has been a result of the cleverness of your coaching.

[peskypesky]

O_V to Pop: Get over thinking your team's success has been a result of the cleverness of your coaching.

:toast

[Spursmania]

FYI: Get over Bonner Pop.

[sammy]

Players to Pop: Get Over Bonner

:toast

[Ice009]

I hate to say it but ducks has been mentioning that for a while and how continuing to talk about Ginobili when he's out could harm the team's psyche . . . .

And I agreed with Ducks when he said it.

Pop was the idiot that kept going on and on about how we need Manu to win in the playoffs. At the time he was saying it I kept saying he needs to stop saying that shit because his players will lose confidence if he says it all the time. It is true, but Pop should have said what he is saying now about 4-5 weeks ago.

Now Pop is saying not to think about him? Good work Pop.

[Warlord23]

Pop needs to get over himself first.

[poop]

i like how he's calling out his team when this loss is entirely his own fault. douchebag

[ElNono]

i like how he's calling out his team when this loss is entirely his own fault. douchebag

He said this BEFORE the game. Did you actually read the article?

[poop]

doesnt change anything....

[Creation88]

Pop STFU and get over Bonner.

[SenorSpur]

Pop needs to recite his own motto and "get over himself."

Stop bristling at the notion that your team is "too old" and accept the fact that THEY ARE.

Stop wearing the "experience" label as some badge of honor and try earning your
genius" label by opting to develop better roster balance and depth. You're wearing out your star players.

Stop hazing promising players by banishing them to the bench, when they've shown evidence of productivity. Try trusting them enough to give them playing time.

Stop thinking that players who have are athletic skill cannot fit into your system.

[NewJerSpur]

Sounds like a Doc Rivers interview I heard not to long ago.

[Thompson]

Hill on Terry or Barea.

Can Gooden guard Nowitzki? The one time I can remember them matching up, Gooden seemed to pester him pretty well and Dirk missed.

Bowen on Howard or Dirk if Gooden can't handle him.

[Brutalis]

You get over Manu, Pop.

[ElNono]

Can Gooden guard Nowitzki? The one time I can remember them matching up, Gooden seemed to pester him pretty well and Dirk missed.

The question is, can Nowitzki guard Gooden?... You make Dirk work hard on one end, and he gets both tired and in foul trouble. Bonner ain't gonna make that happen.

[Obstructed_View]

The question is, can Nowitzki guard Gooden?... You make Dirk work hard on one end, and he gets both tired and in foul trouble. Bonner ain't gonna make that happen.

You'd better hope for a different officiating philosophy if you're expecting Dirk to get into foul trouble. He could have stabbed Timmy in the neck after he picked up his third foul and tonight's crew wouldn't have called it, and the Spurs were at home with a lead official who's got a history of being home court friendly.

[Typhoon]

Well Manu is the ace of the team, without him nothing can be accomplish, so it's hard to not mention him.

[Typhoon]

.

[ElNono]

You'd better hope for a different officiating philosophy if you're expecting Dirk to get into foul trouble. He could have stabbed Timmy in the neck after he picked up his third foul and tonight's crew wouldn't have called it, and the Spurs were at home with a lead official who's got a history of being home court friendly.

I know. I don't even wanna go there, because I also think we were not physical enough on our end. Going back to my previous point, I'll just take the make him work part. And probably the extra scoring and rebounding. I mean, Dirk didn't even had to try guarding Bonner. Just stick near him to make sure he doesn't get the ball and that is it.

[Budkin]

Pop has been an awesome coach for us over the years no doubt but he's really starting to break down mentally now. I'm not sure what the fuck is going on.

[SenorSpur]

On top of everything else, Pop has the nerve to be a pompous ass to anyone in the media, who asks him a question. Another example of him arrogantly posturing as though he is the "smartest guy in the room" Of course, he usually is, but he needn't act like it.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

On top of everything else, Pop has the nerve to be a pompous ass to anyone in the media, who asks him a question. Another example of him arrogantly posturing as though he is the "smartest guy in the room" Of course, he usually is, but he needn't act like it.

There comes a point when the people who value being a "class act" and cherishing the "code" they operate on, stop being humble, and start to get arrogant themselves.
Pop is pretty arrogant this season.

There's a Galileo quote that applies, "I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."

One of his response/demeanor to the reporter wondering why Gooden and Thomas were limited in minutes, seemed pretty arrogant.

[SA210]

Pop needs to recite his own motto and "get over himself."

Stop bristling at the notion that your team is "too old" and accept the fact that THEY ARE.

Stop wearing the "experience" label as some badge of honor and try earning your
genius" label by opting to develop better roster balance and depth. You're wearing out your star players.

Stop hazing promising players by banishing them to the bench, when they've shown evidence of productivity. Try trusting them enough to give them playing time.

Stop thinking that players who have are athletic skill cannot fit into your system.

:tu


Pop needs to get over himself first.

:tu


O_V to Pop: Get over thinking your team's success has been a result of the cleverness of your coaching.

:tu

[kace]

well, what is pretty hard to admit, is that we have so few players able to create their own shot.

we usually have Tim, tony, manu. that's all. with manu out, we have ONLY ONE player in the whole roster able to drive to the rim.
we can hope that gooden will be the third man able to be an offensive threat by himself against the Mavs but that's still 3 men.

Mavs have Dirk, Terry, Howard, bass, barea and even Kidd. i expect bass and barea to be inconsistent. but you could also expect dirk and terry, even Kidd to have less quiet games.

they have a lot of players to respect. We have two.

the value of perimeter players able to penetrate is huge in the current NBA. without manu, we have only Tony. and Tim seems fucking alone sometimes in the paint.

i still believe though.

[Obstructed_View]

Parker can create his own shot. Mason can create his own shot. Gooden can create his own shot. Duncan can create his own shot. Finley can create his own shot. Each can create from a different place on the floor. That said, the Spurs should never be relying on individual players creating their own shots. The reason they shot lights-out from three point range tonight is because they didn't create their own shot, instead creating shots for teammates through good ball movement, good screens and good rotations.

[Bruno]

Spurs season has ended in Cleveland when Manu broke his fibula.
Whoever disagrees is either a blind fan or seriously underestimate both Manu's level and other NBA teams level.

[SA210]

Spurs season has ended in Cleveland when Manu broke his fibula.
Whoever disagrees is either a blind fan or seriously underestimate both Manu's level and other NBA teams level.

It's so sad, because while I believe this, I can't stop watching and rooting for my team. I feel what you say to be true, but for some reason I don't give up hope. We can't pack up and go home. We gotta go with what we got.


:depressed :depressed




:flag:

[kace]

Spurs season has ended in Cleveland when Manu broke his fibula.
Whoever disagrees is either a blind fan or seriously underestimate both Manu's level and other NBA teams level.

this team is built around three guys. and whoever of them is missing (insert "manu") would really hurt us, that's true.

but i still believe that this team can make some noise in PO. i mean pass one round or two. at least, i hope.

:flag:

[boutons_deux]

I think the season was over, maybe the Pop/Duncan era was over, when Pop quit insisting on defense, and started thinking he had enough offensive power.

Think where we'd be now if the Spurs defense was able to carry on even without Manu.

Is this the too-frequent Spurs-first-PO-game-loss or something different?

It doesn't matter. What's different is that the Spurs can't stop anybody.

[SenorSpur]

I'll never understand Pop's "all or else" philosophy about certain things.

1. For about a decade, his drafting strategy was all Euro, all the time. All the while, ignoring domestic talent.

2. For about a decade now, he has seen the value of adding experienced players to his roster. The value of that strategy has proven very effective and has been instrumental in helping the team win 4 titles. As good as that strategy has been, it has had it's flaws. Especially when your coach blindly and completely "sells out" to said strategy, at all costs. Occasionally, Pop has been guilty of recruiting older players, whose declining skills put them at a disadvantage when going up against their younger, quicker, counterparts - especially during back-to-back game scenarios. With age usually comes the greater risk for potential injury. At other times, he's simply invested in these olders players for 1 or 2 seasons too long.

3. This team is no longer gets stops at crucial moments and has lost the ability to limit the opposition to one-shot possessions. Coincidence? I think not. It appears he's actually willing to sacrifice his long-respected, defensive strategy, in favor of slow-footed, perimeter players who cannot keep their man in front of them.

4. Unlike other Spurs team, this team is actually a good free-throw shooting team. However, they're ranking near the bottom in FT attempts. Why? Pop elected to surround his star players with 3-point shooters. Most of whom do not possess the ability to slash to the basket and get to the line.

Rather than put all of his "collective eggs" in the same basket, Pop would be better served if he would balance out his strategies and philosophies.

1. As of last year, he finally opted to spend his top draft choice on a domestic player. Good move. Of course, it took about 10 years and a plummeting global economy for him to get the message.

2. Instead of complete trust and total reliance on older players, mix in a young guy into the rotation. A player that can provide the necessary jolt needed to change a game's momentum. Perhaps Hill is such a player. Perhaps Hairston can be such a player next year.

3. See preceeding comment #2. Get back to your basics. This team desparately needs another defensive stopper or two, out on the perimeter. Fielding a roster of slow-footer perimeter players does nothing to help your bigs and simply leaves your best big (Duncan) hanging out to dry.

4. It's great to have specialty players, but too many players who mirror the same skill. Add another slasher or two. Get some cheap points and get your opponent into foul trouble.

[ducks]

I hate to say it but ducks has been mentioning that for a while and how continuing to talk about Ginobili when he's out could harm the team's psyche . . . .

thanks for the props

[Bruno]

And while I've given up on Spurs for this year, I haven't given up on Spurs' chances to get another title in the Duncan era.

Having the big 3 healthy will greatly help Spurs to reach that goal but I fear it won't be enough. Spurs will need to add some quality to their team. It would be nice if Spurs FO could do it this summer rather than wait the 2010 summer. I guess Spurs ability to improve the team this summer will highly depend on how Spurs are attached to the 2010 plan and if Holt is ready to pay some luxury tax for the 2009-2010 season.

[biba]

Bruno, didn't you see it? thread: Spurs' Parker Bears Up In Taxing Season

17/04/2009
Basket - NBA - Tony Parker fait le bilan

Tony Parker, sur la lancée d'une superbe saison, a livré à L'Equipe son sentiment sur les chances de San Antonio pour les play-offs. Un question-réponse dont voici un petit résumé, avant le premier tour des Spurs face à Dallas.

«Tony Parker, comment les Spurs abordent-ils ces play-offs sans Manu Ginobili ?
C'est clair que Manu va nous manquer. Il est une grosse partie de ce que l'on fait. Mais on a aussi pris l'habitude de jouer sans lui cette saison... Maintenant, on a deux choix. Soit on relève le challenge, ou alors on sera en vacances super tôt.

C'est le message que votre coach Gregg Popovich a aussi passé dans la presse...
Oui, c'est ça. Il n'y a que ça de toute façon. Il ne faut pas se voiler la face : il y a de très bonnes équipes à l'Ouest. Cela aurait été difficile avec Manu. Sans lui, on doit travailler deux fois plus et être encore plus concentré. On va devoir jouer à la perfection si on veut passer des tours dans ces play-offs.

Est-ce la première fois depuis que vous jouez pour les Spurs que le titre vous semble hors de portée ?
On ne peut dire ça, sinon, ça ne sert à rien de jouer. Maintenant, c'est vrai qu'on ne sait pas du tout où on va. En sept ans à San Antonio, je n'ai jamais connu une situation pareille. Jusqu'à ce jour, chaque année on a abordé les play-offs en ayant une chance d'être champion. Une réelle chance d'être champion NBA. Parce que les équipes qui disent on peut être champion, il y en a. Mais celles qui peuvent vraiment, c'est plus limité. Là, sans Manu, ça paraît compliqué... difficile en tout cas. On n'a aucune marge. On peut battre tout le monde, mais on peut aussi perdre contre tout le monde ! Et il nous faudra donc jouer parfaitement pour gagner. Manu, c'était notre marge.

Est-il temps de parler de la fin d'une époque ?
Oui... au-delà des play-offs. On sait que cette saison et la prochaine sont les dernières de ce groupe. Après, l'été 2010 sera celui de tous les changements. Cela n'est pas nouveau.

Pour la première fois de votre carrière NBA, vous ne pouvez plus vous permettre de faire un match moyen si les Spurs veulent avoir une chance de gagner ?
C'est clair que du moyen à 18 points, 7 passes, ça ne suffit plus. Je dois produire et être à mon maximum tout le temps.

Les Lakers sont-ils imbattables à l'Ouest ?
Personne n'est imbattable. C'est clair que les Lakers ont une marge. Mais ils ne sont pas imbattables».

[Bruno]

Bruno, didn't you see it? thread: Spurs' Parker Bears Up In Taxing Season


Yep, I see this interview. It's an extract of a bigger one he made in french newspaper "L'équipe". When TP make interview in french, he said way more interesting things than in the ones made in english.

I'm sure Spurs FO has nothing set in stone for the moment. They will look at the economical situation of the team, at what other teams offered in trades and at what they can get in the 2009 and 2010 FA, before deciding what road to take.

[rayray2k8]

What the hell? Get over Manu??
We did!!
He needs to get over himself and bench Bonner
and give more minutes to Gooden and insert Hill
to the lineup.
It makes sense since the mavs are playing 3 PG's!

[angel_luv]

New-old voice: Kevin Brock, who began the season as the public-address announcer at AT&T Center before suffering two knee injuries while playing basketball on Dec. 20, returned to the microphone.

It was great to have him back!

[completely deck]

You get over Manu, Pop.

Easy there, tiger.

None of you know whats going on behind closed doors. He probably heard someone mention something about Manu and wanted to put an end to it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

O_V to Pop: Get over thinking your team's success has been a result of the cleverness of your coaching.

/thread

Oh, and get over any idea that Bonner is your Horry replacement.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop has been an awesome coach for us over the years no doubt but he's really starting to break down mentally now. I'm not sure what the fuck is going on.

Easy, he has a bunch of yes men sitting on the bench next to him now that PJ is gone.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Spurs season has ended in Cleveland when Manu broke his fibula.
Whoever disagrees is either a blind fan or seriously underestimate both Manu's level and other NBA teams level.

I don't think anyone disagrees that we won't be able to get past LA without Manu.

But we should still be able to get past Dallas without him, and you're really pulling a TPark by trying to defend Pop's coaching last night by pointing out the obvious that Manu wasn't suited out...

[E20]

I will say what needs to be said again for the 1000th time.

If Bonner can't hit those threes early on then take him out. Incorporate Bowen and Hill into the rotation, doesn't matter if it is too late to keep on tinkering with rotations. Spurs have been doing it all season.

[Bruno]

I don't think anyone disagrees that we won't be able to get past LA without Manu.

But we should still be able to get past Dallas without him, and you're really pulling a TPark by trying to defend Pop's coaching last night by pointing out the obvious that Manu wasn't suited out...

I'm not trying to defend Pop's coaching, I have found him quite bad last night.

I disagree with you about Spurs being to beat Dallas (even with Pop doing a good job). I've said before the start of the series that Mavs were favorite with a 70/30 edge.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not trying to defend Pop's coaching, I have found him quite bad last night.

I disagree with you about Spurs being to beat Dallas (even with Pop doing a good job). I've said before the start of the series that Mavs were favorite with a 70/30 edge.

This is the first year that the Spurs are going to need some seriously lucky breaks if they want a chance to win the title. The Spurs have plenty there to beat Dallas if the coach doesn't hamstring the rotation. If they can beat Dallas, they can hang with anyone in the west that isn't LA, and you never know what can happen between now and the WCF. Part of getting lucky is sticking around long enough to take advantage of your breaks. You sit there and trot out three point shooters with no defense, ride your two stars into the ground and refuse to make adjustments, and you might as well get them out of the playoffs and start thinking about the draft.

[SenorSpur]

This is the first year that the Spurs are going to need some seriously lucky breaks if they want a chance to win the title. The Spurs have plenty there to beat Dallas if the coach doesn't hamstring the rotation. If they can beat Dallas, they can hang with anyone in the west that isn't LA, and you never know what can happen between now and the WCF. Part of getting lucky is sticking around long enough to take advantage of your breaks. You sit there and trot out three point shooters with no defense, ride your two stars into the ground and refuse to make adjustments, and you might as well get them out of the playoffs and start thinking about the draft.

:toast and :tu

Pop's lame-brain decisions are just as big of a deterrent to this team, as any opponent they could face in the playoffs. The Spurs struggles are bigger than just the absence of Ginobili. At a time, where coaching ingenuity, experience and innovation are badly needed to give the team a better chance to win, Pop has come up woefully short.

[Bruno]

I'll never understand Pop's "all or else" philosophy about certain things.

The reason why you don't understand it, is because you think that it is a philosophy.
Most of what you think are choices, aren't.



1. For about a decade, his drafting strategy was all Euro, all the time. All the while, ignoring domestic talent.

You are acting like Spurs have spend multiple lottery picks on foreigners. Spurs picks were at best late first round pick and it's damn hard to get a good player that late in the draft.

Spurs have spend 4 late first round picks on international players :
- Parker : 3 time all star.
- Udrih : it didn't worked with Pop/Spurs but he is still a starting PG paid more than $5M.
- Mahinmi : Call him a bust if you want, I will still wait before doing that.
- Splitter : one of the best player in Europe. I don't see how you can blame Spurs for Splitter changing his mind about his priorities (money over NBA).



2. For about a decade now, he has seen the value of adding experienced players to his roster. The value of that strategy has proven very effective and has been instrumental in helping the team win 4 titles. As good as that strategy has been, it has had it's flaws. Especially when your coach blindly and completely "sells out" to said strategy, at all costs. Occasionally, Pop has been guilty of recruiting older players, whose declining skills put them at a disadvantage when going up against their younger, quicker, counterparts - especially during back-to-back game scenarios. With age usually comes the greater risk for potential injury. At other times, he's simply invested in these olders players for 1 or 2 seasons too long.

It isn't a strategy. It's just that getting a good 25 years old player is damn hard.



3. This team is no longer gets stops at crucial moments and has lost the ability to limit the opposition to one-shot possessions. Coincidence? I think not. It appears he's actually willing to sacrifice his long-respected, defensive strategy, in favor of slow-footed, perimeter players who cannot keep their man in front of them.

It makes 3 years that Spurs have tried to get a good defensive player.Their first target in last year draft was Batum and Spurs have tried to grow a lot of players as Bruce's successor (James White, Marcus Williams, Bobby Jones, Malik Hairston...).



4. Unlike other Spurs team, this team is actually a good free-throw shooting team. However, they're ranking near the bottom in FT attempts. Why? Pop elected to surround his star players with 3-point shooters. Most of whom do not possess the ability to slash to the basket and get to the line.

Spurs first target this summer was Maggette...



There is a world between noticing a weakness in a team and being able to fix it. If you think that Pop and Spurs FO has decided to keep flaws in their team on purpose, you are just way off.

[tlongII]

I hate to say it but ducks has been mentioning that for a while and how continuing to talk about Ginobili when he's out could harm the team's psyche . . . .

You're the first person I've seen that has actually deciphered a ducks post.

[SA210]

This is the first year that the Spurs are going to need some seriously lucky breaks if they want a chance to win the title. The Spurs have plenty there to beat Dallas if the coach doesn't hamstring the rotation. If they can beat Dallas, they can hang with anyone in the west that isn't LA, and you never know what can happen between now and the WCF. Part of getting lucky is sticking around long enough to take advantage of your breaks. You sit there and trot out three point shooters with no defense, ride your two stars into the ground and refuse to make adjustments, and you might as well get them out of the playoffs and start thinking about the draft.


:toast

[SenorSpur]

The reason why you don't understand it, is because you think that it is a philosophy.
Most of what you think are choices, aren't.

You are acting like Spurs have spend multiple lottery picks on foreigners. Spurs picks were at best late first round pick and it's damn hard to get a good player that late in the draft.

Spare me the "Spurs can't get a good pick because they're perenially drafting at the end of the first round" complaint. While it's true some drafts are deeper or more shallow than others, good players slide to the lower rounds in just about of every draft. Perhaps you remember a guy named Josh Howard?

Spurs have spend 4 late first round picks on international players :
- Parker : 3 time all star.
- Udrih : it didn't worked with Pop/Spurs but he is still a starting PG paid more than $5M.
- Mahinmi : Call him a bust if you want, I will still wait before doing that.
- Splitter : one of the best player in Europe. I don't see how you can blame Spurs for Splitter changing his mind about his priorities (money over NBA).

I'm not knocking the strategy in theory, just the fact that it was not well-balanced. My point is when they did draft, they seemingly sold out to that particular strategy. I admit that having a promising prospect develop on someone else's dime is a good strategy. It is the minimal attention paid to the domestic market, and the fact the FO didn't "hedge" themselves by diversifying their approach, is where I take issue. It's never wise to put all your eggs into any single strategy basket.

It isn't a strategy. It's just that getting a good 25 years old player is damn hard.
You selectively left out the fact that there were several second round picks were spent on international players. Most of which will likely never see the inside of an NBA arena. You've also conveniently forgotten the years in which they traded away their pick or traded out of the round, for whatever reason. So don't try and act as though the Spurs were just "dabbling" in the Euro market. In case you didn't know, getting a good 25 year old player can be had via the draft or through free agency.

It makes 3 years that Spurs have tried to get a good defensive player.Their first target in last year draft was Batum and Spurs have tried to grow a lot of players as Bruce's successor (James White, Marcus Williams, Bobby Jones, Malik Hairston...).

There is a world between noticing a weakness in a team and being able to fix it. If you think that Pop and Spurs FO has decided to keep flaws in their team on purpose, you are just way off.

You can wax poetic about what a great job the FO has done all you want. The fact of the matter is still this: the vulnerabilities with this team are the same as they were 3 years ago. In fact, with the decline of Bowen and the precarious injury situation that has limited Duncan, means this team is considerably worse defensively. The fact that there is nothing in the rotation today to help augment this decline is the result of poor choices and poor planning by the FO. This is a "what have you done for me lately" business. The competition gets better every year. If you're not getting better, you're staying the same or getting worse. Eventually, the competitive cycle catches up with every team. If you think this team is poised to extend its championship window, it is YOU who are just way off.

[mytespurs]

I don't think anyone disagrees that we won't be able to get past LA without Manu.

But we should still be able to get past Dallas without him, and you're really pulling a TPark by trying to defend Pop's coaching last night by pointing out the obvious that Manu wasn't suited out...

Get past LA???!!! We may not, no make that, probably won't even make it that far!

Back to pops and "get over manu"....Manu mentioned in his blog that he was traveling w/the team during the playoffs. If Pop wants the team to get over Manu, do you think he minds that manu will be w/the team during their road playoff games?

[pjjrfan]

I agree that Pop's timing on not having Manu is way late. He should have said that from the get go and moved on. Still, this team is good enough to beat Dallas, but they have to match the Mav's "hunger" as Carlise called it. Will Hill help? I don't know how badly his confidence has been shaken by Pop's loss of confidence in him. Will sitting Bonner help? I think so, and why not let Gooden play more minutes, and let him try his hand at Dirk.

And really what's sad is that Pop is setting his team for failure by going the "get over Ginobili" rout and setting Manu as the scapegoat. Something that has been building up IMO by Pop and coaching staff since the olympics.

[Bruno]

Spare me the "Spurs can't get a good pick because they're perenially drafting at the end of the first round" complaint. While it's true some drafts are deeper or more shallow than others, good players slide to the lower rounds in just about of every draft. Perhaps you remember a guy named Josh Howard?

Odds to draft a good player are lower with a late first round pick than with a lottery pick. And throwing one name won't change that.



I'm not knocking the strategy in theory, just the fact that it was not well-balanced.

This summer Spurs plan was to draft Batum, an international prospect.
With your logic, Spurs' FO should have follow this logic: "we shouldn't draft him. We have drafted enough international players in the past and we had to balance our draft by taking an American player."

Your whole "balancing" theory makes simply no sense. You draft one player at a time.



You selectively left out the fact that there were several second round picks were spent on international players. Most of which will likely never see the inside of an NBA arena.

Second round picks ? :lol
It's even a more longshot than a late first round pick. Spurs have drafted good international players with late second round picks (Ginobili and Scola).
And Spurs have also drafted American players with second round picks. Sato, Wiliams and Hairston have done nothing in NBA so far.



You've also conveniently forgotten the years in which they traded away their pick or traded out of the round, for whatever reason.

What the link between trading a pick and drafting international ?



In case you didn't know, getting a good 25 year old player can be had via the draft or through free agency.

And it's way more complicated without lottery picks or the financial power to overpay players.



You can wax poetic about what a great job the FO has done all you want.

RIF.
I have never said that Spurs FO has done a great job.




In fact, with the decline of Bowen and the precarious injury situation that has limited Duncan, means this team is considerably worse defensively. The fact that there is nothing in the rotation today to help augment this decline is the result of poor choices and poor planning by the FO. This is a "what have you done for me lately" business. The competition gets better every year. If you're not getting better, you're staying the same or getting worse. Eventually, the competitive cycle catches up with every team.

You're way off.
I don't disagree with the fact that Spurs have troubles.
I wholly disagree with you when you say it's the result of philosophy:
- Not having a successor for Bowen isn't because Pop went away of his defensive philosophy. It's because Spurs haven't been able to get a good one.
- Pop hasn't "elected" to have a team of shooter. Spurs haven't been able to get a good perimeter slasher other than Manu and Tony.
- Not getting young players hasn't been a philosophy. It's just than getting these players isn't easy at all.

The only thing you can call a philosophy is drafting foreign players and Spurs have been quite successful at doing that.

Spurs have weaknesses. I know it, you know it and Spurs' FO know it better than us. Your idea that Spurs' FO has decided to ignore these weaknesses is ridiculous and makes no sense when you look at what Spurs have try to do.

Spurs' have tried to fix these weaknesses and they have mainly failed. Part of the failure is because it was damn hard to do. Part of the failure is because Spurs haven't been lucky lately. Part of the failure is because Spurs haven't been good enough to find the jewel in the rough.



If you think this team is poised to extend its championship window, it is YOU who are just way off.

:rolleyes
I have said in this thread that Spurs will need to add some quality via FA/draft/trade to get another championship.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I agree that Pop's timing on not having Manu is way late. He should have said that from the get go and moved on. Still, this team is good enough to beat Dallas, but they have to match the Mav's "hunger" as Carlise called it. Will Hill help? I don't know how badly his confidence has been shaken by Pop's loss of confidence in him. Will sitting Bonner help? I think so, and why not let Gooden play more minutes, and let him try his hand at Dirk.

And really what's sad is that Pop is setting his team for failure by going the "get over Ginobili" rout and setting Manu as the scapegoat. Something that has been building up IMO by Pop and coaching staff since the olympics.

That's true. Manu shouldn't be singled out. Injuries happen. Suns dealt with injuries better when they were contenders. In 2006 they did not let Amare's season ending injury dispirit the team. To a lesser extent the Lakers both in 2008, and 2009 had a better focus on looking at their assets. It's easy with Kobe. But the Spurs have no excuse because they have Tim frickin' Duncan to look to when the going gets tough. A big man who's won a title at less than 100 percent...

This season proves to me Pop is a great coach for maintaining stability, but still can make mistakes, and errors in respect to that stability. The way he's handled team chemistry despite the team's season record leaves a lot to be desired in 2009.
We've made it past 50, but not since 2007, have we routed teams and built the right momentum at the right time. I think Pop's micromanaged so much, that it's thrown him off his game now that the other shoe stopped dropping for him.

[roycrikside]

That's true. Manu shouldn't be singled out. Injuries happen. Suns dealt with injuries better when they were contenders. In 2006 they did not let Amare's season ending injury dispirit the team. To a lesser extent the Lakers both in 2008, and 2009 had a better focus on looking at their assets. It's easy with Kobe. But the Spurs have no excuse because they have Tim frickin' Duncan to look to when the going gets tough. A big man who's won a title at less than 100 percent...

This season proves to me Pop is a great coach for maintaining stability, but still can make mistakes, and errors in respect to that stability. The way he's handled team chemistry despite the team's season record leaves a lot to be desired in 2009.
We've made it past 50, but not since 2007, have we routed teams and built the right momentum at the right time. I think Pop's micromanaged so much, that it's thrown him off his game now that the other shoe stopped dropping for him.

Pop has a history of making Manu the scapegoat. In '07 the whole mantra was "if not for one stupid foul..." In '09 and '10 the mantra will be "if not for Manu's bad ankles..."

[timvp]

Bruno is right on the money in this thread. The Spurs have been good for a long time, which doesn't allow them the rebuilding tools (lottery picks, cap room, big maneuverable contracts, etc.) to easily retool. And given their situation and looking at it from the broadest sense, the front office has done a fantastic job. Now other team in NBA history completely rebuilt a championship core on the fly like the Spurs did from going from the 1999 team to the 2005 and 2007 teams. That's simply never been done before without having downtime to rebuild.

And in the last ten years, the Spurs drafting has been wildly successful. I don't think Spurs fans realize that getting a halfway decent player late in the first round is a huge longshot. IIRC, 75% of late first round draft picks never get a second contract. Second round draft picks are obviously even longer odds. Going by the odds, the Spurs have had one of the best drafting past decades of any team in history. Yeah they've missed on a few picks as of late but that shouldn't cloud the big picture.

I wish it were as easy as Spurs fans think it is to just find a young swingman who can step in and be a championship quality piece but that is hard. It's even harder to find a young bigman piece with the means the Spurs have at their disposal.

The three-point shooters the Spurs ultimately go with aren't around because they were the top options that the FO went after. The Spurs just know that if they are going to get an attainable specialist role player to fit around their Big Three, a three-point specialist has a good chance of fitting in on at least the offensive end.

Overall, I see nothing wrong with the philosophy by the front office. Individual decisions have been questionable but the fact that they've kept the team at a championship level for so long, while always keeping financial flexibility, has been a first in NBA history.

All that said, the Spurs need to tweak the philosophy in the coming years since the Duncan Era is coming to a close. We've seen some evidence that they'd be willing to adjust but beyond 2010, financial flexibility doesn't hold any value. I think (and hope) that the Spurs front office realizes that. Going the Jerry Krause route and trying to cut the winning years short to usher in a new era would be extremely dumb.

[Obstructed_View]

I have a whole lot more problem with the decisions of the coach than I do the decisions of the front office. The Spurs got three guys that could have contributed this year in the draft. The decisions to send them to Europe, cut them and bench them for no reason are the ones that are questionable.

[Laker-fan-in-SanAnto]

I didn't know manu was gay!
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