barry= 0 points with manu back

[ducks]

:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[ducks]

B. Barry misses a 23-foot three-pointer from the left corner
come on barry!

[baseline bum]

Barry prob can't even hit the bowl when he takes a shit.

[whottt]

He's taken 3 freaking shots...he's also getting guys easy baskets.

[ChumpDumper]

he's also getting guys easy baskets.
Yeah.....


....Prince....

[ducks]

spurs got barry to make baskets
for his shotting
his assist are just extra if he gets any
he is not performing well

[whottt]

Yeah.....


....Prince....

Yeah...like Prince wasn't/isn't lighting up everyone we put on him.

Just fuck off and eat shit chump, I am not in the mood for a stroll down stupidity lane with you today.

[whottt]

spurs got barry to make baskets
for his shotting
his assist are just extra if he gets any
he is not performing well

Hey, I am as sick of hit slump as anyone(including he) is...but how the hell can you tell if he's slumping off 3 shot attempts...You act like's he's gone 0-10. He may be in a scoring slump but our bigs score better with him in the game...

[ducks]

brown>>>>>barry today without question

[Nikos]

Prince has little to do with why the Spurs are losing this. Fouling every man, and not boxing out is whats killing them.

[ChumpDumper]

Here come the excuses.

[whottt]

brown>>>>>barry today without question

I agree.

[ChumpDumper]

Perhaps he should take more than 2 shots in 17 minutes.

He's making Bowen look like Antoine Walker.

[ZStomp]

I'm so disappointed with Barry.

I'm not bashing him...just disappointed.

[baseline bum]

Barry and Horry are giving this team nothing in games that matter.

[whottt]

Perhaps he should take more than 2 shots in 17 minutes.

He's making Bowen look like Antoine Walker.LMAO that is funny...

He's not a shot chucker...dude is used to playing with Gary Payton...He looks to pass first and create...and he's good at it and only a hater can't see it. If you want him to shoot more try running some plays for him.

If you want to prove some stupid point about fitting the system(and be a worse team because of it) then go right ahead and be stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

He's afraid.

[whottt]

Afraid for the entire fucking season? Even against lottery teams?

Stupid logic.

The dude is not afraid to take a big shot...he's beaten us with a last second shot before...the year we won the title.

And the previous year the Sonics took us to 5 games when Duncan's dad died.

[exstatic]

When Manu is 100%, they need to put Barry on the IR, and give his minutes to Devin. Really, he probably needs a new purse, or something. He can go shopping.

Get him the fuck off my team this summer, RC.

[ChumpDumper]

Is is a good thing that Barry is so afraid to shoot when Duncan is out and everyone needs to look for more offense.

Tell me how it's good.

[ChumpDumper]

He looks to pass first and createSo does Beno.

12 shots in 18 minutes.

[whottt]

I don't think he's afraid to shoot, I think he just looks to take good shots...I look at the way the team performs with him in there and he gets to handle the ball...and they perform well, and they have all season...

You call it fear and I call you stupid...look the Phoenix...a choker does not shoot like that...Barry is shooting shitty no matter who we play.

And it's got nothing to do with coming off the bench or starting either.

I know a choker when I see one(Hedo>Manu)...and I don't think Barry is a choker. You don't choke for an entire season game in and game out and it's not like he's being asked to carry the load....actually he's played better when asked to do more.

But go ahead...keep up your lazy analysis...I'll show you a choker...your boy Bobby Sura is a choker, hide and watch.

[ducks]

glover>>>>>barry

[ChumpDumper]

He's shooting almost 30% fewer shots per minute than 01-02.

What's the difference?

[whottt]

He's shooting almost 30% fewer shots per minute than 01-02.

What's the difference?

He's got a hell of a lot more scorers around him than he had in Seattle and they are shooting better than he is, if they are open why wouldn't a smart player go to the better shooting guys, plus he is now plays with an MVP bigman and plays for an inside out team. Is it that hard to figure out?

I want to see him shoot better too...but chokes don't last for an entire freaking season.

He shot shitty against fucking bobcats...he's choking against the bobcats? Get fucking real.

[ChumpDumper]

but chokes don't last for an entire freaking season.
Slumps can.

Sucking can.

Being afraid can.

Is this really the number of shot attempts you expected from Barry in this situation?

Yes or no?

[exstatic]

...look the Phoenix...

Get off his fucking jock. He had ONE FUCKING GOOD GAME, and you keep waving it like a surrender flag. Every blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while. Phoenix was Barry's acorn.

[whottt]

Slumps can.

Sucking can.

True.


Being afraid can.

Shooters that are afraid aren't shooting 667% from the field and 1000% from the FT line in clutch situations.

I think it's more than he doesn't want to force shots because he knows he sucks right now...what you fail to notice is that he is effective even when his shot isn't falling...


Is this really the number of shot attempts you expected from Barry in this situation?

Yes or no?

I expected his shot attempts to go down...who shots down't go down on a team with Tim Duncan?

I didn't expect him to shoot at this shitty of a PCT though...did anyone?

I just don't think he sucks as badly as everyone else does...and I am 3 pointer freak remember?

It's got nothing to do with choking...choking is done in moments. Choking is performing well and then underperforming when it matters most...Barry has been an equal opportunity player all season...he's played good in big games and he's sucked bad against shitty teams...and vice versa.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll take that as a no, asshole.

[picnroll]

Whott there is a reason Barry wasn't on the floor in the fourth when the Spurs almost pulled it out. There's a reason Pop had his ass planted on the bench. Pop knows it. All of SA save one person knows it. "It" is that Barry sucks. Guess who doesn't know it.

[whottt]

No to some of it...I didn't expect him to shoot this shitty for the entire season. But I am not surprised his shot attempts are down. I think you are pretty much ignorant of how the Spurs offense works if you expected his shot attempts PCT to stay the same...

I guess David Robinson choked when Duncan became the offensive focal point too then.

[ChumpDumper]

2 shots today is a joke. You can't spin that at all.

DRob would've taken more than 2 shots today and you shit on his memory for thinking that would be alright.

[whottt]

Whott there is a reason Barry wasn't on the floor in the fourth when the Spurs almost pulled it out. There's a reason Pop had his ass planted on the bench. Pop knows it. All of SA save one person knows it. "It" is that Barry sucks. Guess who doesn't know it.



IT's unfortunate...because Barry was on the court for the virtually the entire 4th quarter of not one but our two biggest comebacks wins of the season...Really the only two chances he's gotten in that situation.

I don't expect the basketball challenged IQ's I am arguing with to pick up on that second one though...because Barry didn't shoot well that game.

Tell you what...tell me what the score was the last time Barry was in the game and what our final margin of loss was...for this game.

How'd you boys non chokers do?

We got pulled away from didn't we?

[T Park]

Barry is making Carl Herrera look like a successfull signing.

Pop has got to be disgusted.

BTW, I think he has missed 41 of 43 of his last three point attempts.


Absolutely pathetic.

[ChumpDumper]

At least they tried.

[whottt]

At least they tried.


Taking bad shots equals trying?

Hmmm why aren't you upset about the Malik Rose trade? Douchebag.

[Gerryatrics]

Whott there is a reason Barry wasn't on the floor in the fourth when the Spurs almost pulled it out. There's a reason Pop had his ass planted on the bench. Pop knows it. All of SA save one person knows it. "It" is that Barry sucks. Guess who doesn't know it.

Yeah, and what a stunning success that was. Good thing Pop put in Tony "3/4" Parker to bring the offense to a screeching hault instead of having Barry and Beno push the ball, and at least give Barry the chance to hit a big shot. Bones' 3pt% sucks, but the rest of his game is still solid. Maybe if he got some touches and was allowed to get in to the flow of the offense, his shooting would fall in line with the rest of his game.

[picnroll]

Pop has said he's disappointed in Barry's play this year. Barry has said he's disappointed in Barry's play. Parker has said he's disappointed in Barry's play. Duncan has said Barry will come around. What does this translate to? To date Barry sucks. He's had multiple chances. Today no TD. A token Manu. A big game. The guy is worked like a $2.00 whore by Prince and takes two frickin shots. What a gamer. About time to put him on the shelf and move his ass this summer. I count on nothing from Barry in the playoffs.

[whottt]

PicNRoll...if it makes you feel any better Barry has disappointed me too this season :)

But Gerryatricks nailed it...he hasn't played as badly as people say and when called up to do something he's pretty much done it...including hit big shots.

You boys are being blined by the stats...the guys who miss shots when it gets tight and with games on the line are Devin and Beno....not Barry.

Open your eyes and you will see why I don't want Barry out of the rotation.

I rip guys who can't shoot mercilessly...why you think I hate AJ? I ripped Smitty and Hedo and if Barry chokes I will rip him worse than anyone because I hate freaking chokers...I just don't think that's what Barry is.

And this isn't some preseason take I am trying to defend...I wanted Jack back...when we first signed Barry I said I would have rather had Jon...but the ripping on Barry is way overblown...

Case in point...TPark called him wild...this is the guard with the best Assist to TO ratio on the team, and the one with fewest TO's per game...and TPark calls him wild.

Want to say Barry is shooting shitty? Go ahead, it's pretty much indefensivle...want to say he totally sucks? That's false, he doesn't.

[boutons]

The non-Barry Spurs sure missed their open shots in crunch time. I call it choking.

[baseline bum]

I'm sick of hearing how misused Barry is. This offense doesn't fit Parker or Ginobili in the slightest and they excel in it. If Barry can't find a way to contribute then he's not a good player.

[Ginofan]

Pop has said he's disappointed in Barry's play this year. Barry has said he's disappointed in Barry's play. Parker has said he's disappointed in Barry's play. Duncan has said Barry will come around. What does this translate to? To date Barry sucks. He's had multiple chances. Today no TD. A token Manu. A big game. The guy is worked like a $2.00 whore by Prince and takes two frickin shots. What a gamer. About time to put him on the shelf and move his ass this summer. I count on nothing from Barry in the playoffs.

Great post! I think it would be great in a signature lol

[picnroll]

Barry was brought in for one main thing. Same reason Ferry was here. Same reason Kerr was here. Same reason Hedo was here. To hit the open shot from the outside. The rest, the passing, the transiton, the backup PG is nice but the Spurs have penetrators, Spurs have passers, Spurs have guys that can run the transition. They needed a guy that was deadeye from outside to keep the D honest, to spread the floor, to hit open looks created by doubles on Duncan and kickouts from penetrating Parker and Manu. That's why Barry's here to hit the open shot and he's failed. That's what the Spurs spent their last few dollars to shore up because they new it was their achilles heel. Now we can pray by some miracle that when crunch time comes in the playoffs Barry will show up. Good luck.

[whottt]

I'm sick of hearing how misused Barry is. This offense doesn't fit Parker or Ginobili in the slightest and they excel in it. If Barry can't find a way to contribute then he's not a good player.

Steve Kerr's stats from his first season with the Spurs:


YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
98-99 SAS 44 0 16.7 .391 .313 .886 .10 .90 1.00 1.1 .52 .07 .50 .60 4.4

It took the brilliant Greg Poppovich and Spurs Fans to show the world that Steve Kerr sucks and that Phil Jackson was an idiot for adjusting his team to Steve Kerr's skill set and giving him important minutes(3 championships in a row)...

Stephen Jackson's stats from the season we won the title:


YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
02-03 SAS 80 58 28.2 .435 .320 .760 .80 2.80 3.60 2.3 1.56 .38 2.20 2.50 11.8


How dare Stephen Jackson put up better numbers every year since leaving here...doesn't he know the Spurs and their fans are offensive geniuses?

Why did Jackson leave? I think he said something along the lines of...I got sick of people saying my numbers were because of Tim Duncan(a point Jack is going to shove far up our asses in about 2 games).

[T Park]

yeah and where is he now, on 2 straight lottery teams.

Yup fantastic move Stephen.

Kerr stunk in 99 fact, and they won a ring convincingly, loosing twice.


hilarious, just hilarious.

Pop should change whats working, to accomidate this clown.

[whottt]

yeah and where is he now, on 2 straight lottery teams.

Yup fantastic move Stephen.

Kerr stunk in 99 fact, and they won a ring convincingly, loosing twice.
And Steve Kerr has two rings on his asswiping hand and 3 on the other.




hilarious, just hilarious.

Pop should change whats working, to accomidate this clown.

It's working is it? How well is it working lately?

When was the last time we beat a playoff team?

But by damn we'll teach Barry a lesson or lose a championship trying.

Yo go TPark you go.

Hey...Duncan sprained his ankle...shouldn't you be making posts about tanking the season Mr.Balls?

[T Park]

Shouldn't you be making posts about how pop lost this game because Massenburg didn't play his required minutes???


How is it working lately??

The team is 50-16 and they have the first spot in the west, I think they are doin pretty good Coyote Jr.

When was the last time we beat a playoff team??

uhhhhh Chicago??


Whats your fuckin point, now pop should change around the whole offense, for Brent fuckin barry,

because he CANT make an OPEN shot.


But last year Hedo wasn't worth getting more shots, more time, or another contract.


What absolute hypocrisy and a joke.

[T Park]

But by damn we'll teach Barry a lesson or lose a championship trying.

what the fuck??>

He cant make open shots, how the fuck is that teaching Barry a goddamn lessson??

Because they wont take shots away from Parker and Brown??


God you have got to be kidding fuckin me.

[timvp]

Pop has said he's disappointed in Barry's play this year. Barry has said he's disappointed in Barry's play. Parker has said he's disappointed in Barry's play. Duncan has said Barry will come around. What does this translate to? To date Barry sucks. He's had multiple chances. Today no TD. A token Manu. A big game. The guy is worked like a $2.00 whore by Prince and takes two frickin shots. What a gamer. About time to put him on the shelf and move his ass this summer. I count on nothing from Barry in the playoffs.


Barry was brought in for one main thing. Same reason Ferry was here. Same reason Kerr was here. Same reason Hedo was here. To hit the open shot from the outside. The rest, the passing, the transiton, the backup PG is nice but the Spurs have penetrators, Spurs have passers, Spurs have guys that can run the transition. They needed a guy that was deadeye from outside to keep the D honest, to spread the floor, to hit open looks created by doubles on Duncan and kickouts from penetrating Parker and Manu. That's why Barry's here to hit the open shot and he's failed. That's what the Spurs spent their last few dollars to shore up because they new it was their achilles heel. Now we can pray by some miracle that when crunch time comes in the playoffs Barry will show up. Good luck.

Bingo X 2.

Whottt is trying to defend his boyfriend to the end, but even he is having a hard time.

Barry plays like he's afraid. He has no nvts. He's a boy in a man's game.

He's never been a winner and apparently never will be.

[whottt]

TimVP, my comments on Barry haven't changed this entire season...

I'll ask you the same question I asked the others in this thread, and that was never answered...

What was the score the last time Barry was in the game and what was the final score?

I await your subsequent answer and excuse...Please don't be afraid to answer like everyone else was.



BTW...I was one of the guys that complained when we lost Jack the first time around...what was I told then? Trust Pop? I was also the guy who said Jon Barry would probably be a better fit for the role we want Barry to play...What was I told then? Trust Pop? Please let's dig up some of these threads.

Now you guys are asking me to trust Pop because he thinks a player sucks and can't figure out how to use him? Sorry. Can't do it. Obviously it's too mentally challenging to run a couple of plays for Barry to get him cranked up...

So I guess well choke with Beno and Devin instead when things get tight...as we have all season long..

[MannyIsGod]

Barry doesnt' deserve minutes. He just doesn't. He's had more than enough chances, enough is enough.

[timvp]

You look it up. You're on the same internet as me. I'm not the Barry apologist.

Barry was HORRIBLE today offensively and defensively. It's rare you see an NBA player play that bad of defense.

Can you admit that? Barry was horrible and plays afraid.

Right?

Answer me that.

[Kori Ellis]

Whottt -- Face the music, Barry is a wuss. Stop using the "he only got two shot attempts" bull excuse. If Beno Udrih, a rookie, can manage to find a way to get 13 shot attempts off in 20 minutes, then Mr. Veteran High Basketball IQ needs to reach in his shorts and find his balls and take some frickin' shots.

[whottt]

You look it up. You're on the same internet as me. I'm not the Barry apologist.

I already know the answer, I've known it all season long...you obviously don't.


Barry was HORRIBLE today offensively and defensively. It's rare you see an NBA player play that bad of defense.

Can you admit that?

Amazing that we hung with the Pistons while Barry was in the game for the entire game yet got run when he was off the court.

How is that possible? And it's been that way all season long...


Barry was horrible and plays afraid.

His shooting sucks...but I don't think he's afraid or the rest of his game sucks.

A breakdown of our W-L record and team stats bear out everything I have said...that's a big reason I have the opinion on him I do.

[whottt]

Whottt -- Face the music, Barry is a wuss. Stop using the "he only got two shot attempts" bull excuse. If Beno Udrih, a rookie, can manage to find a way to get 13 shot attempts off in 20 minutes, then Mr. Veteran High Basketball IQ needs to reach in his shorts and find his balls and take some frickin' shots.

Barry hasn't been afraid to take a big shot yet this season....it's the rest of the time he doesn't shoot. The guy doesn't like taking bad shots. Those are not open shots that he passes up and if they are it's because someone is closer to the basket than he is and open.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

And Steve Kerr has two rings on his asswiping hand and 3 on the other.


You know, this made me wonder if Kerr wears all those rings when he takes a dump?

Can you imagine? Miss-aim on the reach around wipe and you're scratching your anus with a big-ass diamond. Ouch!

And how do you clean the turds from in between the diamonds on a NBA Championship ring anyway? That could prove difficult.

I'd suspect, that for precautionary reasons, the rings stay in their boxes when it's time to have a stinky.

[Ginofan]

TimVP, my comments on Barry haven't changed this entire season...

I'll ask you the same question I asked the others in this thread, and that was never answered...

What was the score the last time Barry was in the game and what was the final score?

I await your subsequent answer and excuse...Please don't be afraid to answer like everyone else was.



BTW...I was one of the guys that complained when we lost Jack the first time around...what was I told then? Trust Pop? I was also the guy who said Jon Barry would probably be a better fit for the role we want Barry to play...What was I told then? Trust Pop? Please let's dig up some of these threads.

Now you guys are asking me to trust Pop because he thinks a player sucks and can't figure out how to use him? Sorry. Can't do it. Obviously it's too mentally challenging to run a couple of plays for Barry to get him cranked up...

So I guess well choke with Beno and Devin instead when things get tight...as we have all season long..



8:40 Dion Glover enters the game for Brent Barry 87-92
end score = 101-110

but also be advised that Rasho came in for Nazr about a minute later and didn't return till 1:48. Taking Brent out didn't lose the game for us.

[Frenchise player]

I know that I am exposing me but playing against Prince doesn't help. This guy is playing increadibly and is one of the best SF in the league today (the best in the east I think).
Barry wasn't playing that bad the last games, seeing that his shot wasn't good, he is trying to create for his teammates and he is good at that. Today against Pistons defense he struggled but was he supposed to shoot more when Beno was hot until late in the game?

[MannyIsGod]

You know, I'm tired of these complicated reasons of why Barry is playing horrible.

Because when it comes down to it, he can't hit wide open shots. He just can't!

He gets at least one wide open look at a jumper, which should be no more difficult than a layup, and he can never hit it. He's shooting an incredibly low percentage as of late, and most of those shots he takes are wide open.

I'm tired of the excuses, Barry needs to be burried on the bench.

[Kori Ellis]

Barry hasn't been afraid to take a big shot yet this season...

Then how come the only time he has ever hit one this season is against Phoenix? We're sixty-some games into the season.

He's the Anti-Clutch.

[ALVAREZ6]

I think Barry isn't hitting his wide open threes because of the fact that he was brought to San Antonio for shooting threes.

He knows his role on the team, and Pop knew he was bringing a 3 point shooter.

So, picture yourself wide open, completely wide open. Barry has extra pressure on him because he is doing exactly what we beg him to do, and he probably feels that if he misses, then everyone will be pissed.

Barry needs to start helping by doing things on the court other than shooting 3's so he can sort of forget that he is a 3 point shooter, then the 3's will come more naturally.

I know it's not a good excuse, Barry should be shooting a higher %, but it's something to think about.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, well he's had a chance to do that. This isn't time to learn anything, this is time to go with the players who are playing the best and develop a solid roation going into the playoffs.

Barry is factoring himself out of that rotation. He does very little better than Devein Brown, and none of it makes him worth of minutes at the expense of Brown.

[whottt]

Prince tore up Glover and Manu too.....don't let them fool you.

I am going to say this one final time...

If you want Barry to approximate the player he was in Seattle...Guess what? He was big part of their offense in Seattle...they ran plays that played to his strengths...

Guess what? Standing up there and jacking 3 pointers and doing little else is not his strength...I wish it was because all our lives would be much more fufilled now if it was his strength...

But it isn't...so we have two choices, run some plays for him or continue to let him suck for 5 million a season...and Pop's strength is not exactly upping the trade value of players he is unhappy with...

I don't care...I just want the team to win a freaking title...I am sorry guys don't see it but Devin and Beno haven't made a big shot in a meaningful game all season...and all those big games Devin had last season were when there was no expectation from him...and we also lost just about all of them.

This team needs Barry, I want to win a title...and sitting here saying he sucks and being stubborn about his role isn't going to win a title.

Brent Barry is not Hedo...Barry doesn't need to start, he doesn't want to start, he isn't worried about getting a big contract, he came here to podunk San Antonio to win a title...His heart is in the right place and his motivations are good enough for me to stick it out with him until he actually does choke...

In my definition of choke.

[ALVAREZ6]

Barry is factoring himself out of that rotation. He does very little better than Devein Brown, and none of it makes him worth of minutes at the expense of Brown.

Barry doesn't do better than Brown at all. Brown is actually a valuable part of the team, I don't see why people bash on him, he's a solid bench player that brings energy.

He helped keep the Spurs in it today.

[MannyIsGod]

If Barry wants to consult someone on what his role on this team will be, he needs to pick up a phone and call Steve Kerr. There is no reason to give him playing time right now, and if he's as much as a professional as people give him credit for being then he will remain ready for action.

[ALVAREZ6]

If you want Barry to approximate the player he was in Seattle...Guess what? He was big part of their offense in Seattle...they ran plays that played to his strengths...

Guess what? Standing up there and jacking open 3 pointers and doing little else is not his strength...I wish it was because all our lives would be much more fufilled now if it was his strength...


I don't care...I just want the team to win a freaking title...I am sorry guys don't see it but Devin and Beno haven't made a big shot in a meaningful game all season...and all those big games Devin had last season were when there was no expectation from him...and we also lost just about all of them.

This team needs Barry, I want to win a title...and sitting here saying he sucks and being stubborn about his role isn't going to win a title.

I said this earlier, Barry shouldn't just be used for jacking threes.

BTW, Devin Brown is more valuable to the Spurs right now. Doesn't matter who hits the big shot in a meaningful game all season, what matters is who is contributing.

When Devin is on the court, he is making jumpers, driving to the whole and either making a lay-up or getting sent to the stripe for 2 shots. Either way, he's bringing energy that helps the Spurs.

In 18 minutes, Barry didn't do anymore more than 2 rebounds and 3 assists. How is he helping?

[whottt]

Then how come the only time he has ever hit one this season is against Phoenix? We're sixty-some games into the season.

Um, because he hasn't been on the court to do that except in about 3 games? Two of which we won? Don't forget the clutch Free Throws he shot in the last Detroit game when everyone was choking at the FT line.

He's always yanked in crunch time so how can you say he hasn't done it?

Tell me...how many big late shots in close games have Devin and Beno hit?

They are the guys that put up numbers when there is no pressure and tighten up and start missing them when it gets tight...not Barry. Barry is an equal opportunity sucker.





He's the Anti-Clutch.

He seemed clutch enough when he hit a game winning 3 pointer against us a few years ago...he seemed good enough in the 02 playoffs when his team beat us every time Duncan was out of the game and pushed us to 5 games.


So you guys say he's the anti clutch, I don't think he is...And I remember doubting Hedo last season when he was shooting good and having everyone tell me it was going to be fine...

[whottt]

If Barry wants to consult someone on what his role on this team will be, he needs to pick up a phone and call Steve Kerr. There is no reason to give him playing time right now, and if he's as much as a professional as people give him credit for being then he will remain ready for action.

There's one major difference...Kerr had 3 rings to fend off Pop's confidence destroying BS....Kerr knew he was good enough to hit a game winning shot in the finals.

Pop made it harder on Kerr to do what he did in the 03 playoffs, not easier...and if it hadn't been for Duncan Kerr probably would not have got off the bench in those playoffs.

[Kori Ellis]

Whottt, you are really missing something in regards to Barry. Nobody wants him to just jack up three's. But hitting some outside shots is a big part of why he's here. He knows that -- he acknowledge it in the E-N article last night. He is befuddled why he can't knock down an open shot. And Pop has repeatedly said that it's primarily because he's putting too much pressure on himself ... well if he can't handle the pressure in game 2 of the season, game 32, game 52 ... you get the picture. How is he going to handle playoff pressure.

Aside from outside shooting, when Manu was out, Barry managed to dish and rebound (he had season highs in each) even when his shot wasn't falling. So now that he's back on the bench two days later, where did that go? What did he bring to the table today? He didn't hit the boards .... he didn't pass that well.

And he's a horrible defender. I'm not talking about in today's game, but in general. And not because he doesn't have some skills. He has the speed to stay in front of someone; he has the athleticism to jump and even block some shots some times. But many, many times, he gives up on D -- and that pisses me off. And as a Spurs fan, it should piss you off too. Steve Kerr sucked as a defender... but he didn't give up like Barry does a lot of the time.

Like you, every Spurs fan wants Barry to succeed. And the Spurs have given him every opportunity to do so. They've had games where they run plays for him, they've had games where they have begged him to shoot. But it gets tiresome to watch him NOT perform. I thought the Barry signing was good. timvp thought it was great. But everyone was skeptical if he would be able to step up and find a role on a good team. Devin Brown is finding ways to contribute. Beno is finding ways to contribute. Barry needs to do whatever he can to do the same. It's not on Pop. It's not about running plays for him. It's about reaching inside yourself and finding ways to be a winner. He hasn't found that yet.

[picnroll]

Pop just said in an interview he's telling Barry to just shoot, just be aggressive, not worry about the consequences. Yeah, I see your point. Pop's really undermining Barry's confidence.

[picnroll]

Can we do a S&T Barry for Daniels to Seattle after he pulls a Hedo on us in the playoffs. I take it back, that's an insult to Hedo. Hedo at least D'd up.

[Kori Ellis]

after he pulls a Hedo on us in the playoffs

I'm still hoping that doesn't happen. I really want to have faith in Barry. But there are too many parallels -- each of them having January as their biggest month of the season.

[whottt]

8:40 Dion Glover enters the game for Brent Barry 87-92
end score = 101-110

This is wrong...the last time Barry was in the game the score was 84 - 87.



but also be advised that Rasho came in for Nazr about a minute later and didn't return till 1:48. Taking Brent out didn't lose the game for us.

Be advised...we lost ground from about the two minute mark of this game on, I generally define that as crunchtime..Barry wasn't the guy choking...obviously the guys on the court didn't get it done.

[picnroll]

Spurs scored 101 points. How many of those was Barry responsible for?

[whottt]

What makes you guys think Barry is going to pull a Hedo in the playoffs, he isn't pulling one in the regular season :smokin

They are different.

Hedo took the $$$$ to go play for the worst team in the NBA....I think his motivations are just a tad different than Brent Barry's...

And PicNRoll...I just hope Devin Brown isn't Antonio Daniels Part 2...

Antonio put up monster numbers when the Lakers were kicking our butts in the 01 WCF and no one was paying attention to him, something like 20 points a game...the next year when we needed him in a much more competitive series he choked...

[timvp]

The sad thing is Whotttt will be rooting for Devin Brown to choke so that he can be "proven" right.

[picnroll]

Don't know if Brown will choke or not but at least he'll show up for the game.

[whottt]

Whottt, you are really missing something in regards to Barry. Nobody wants him to just jack up three's. But hitting some outside shots is a big part of why he's here. He knows that -- he acknowledge it in the E-N article last night. He is befuddled why he can't knock down an open shot. And Pop has repeatedly said that it's primarily because he's putting too much pressure on himself ... well if he can't handle the pressure in game 2 of the season, game 32, game 52 ... you get the picture. How is he going to handle playoff pressure.

That's just it...he's handled pressure when he given that chance all season long...Why am I the only one that sees that?

When he asked to step for Manu he did so...when he was actually given the opportunity to hit big shots he has done so. When he has been trusted and been left in the game in games we are trailing we have won those games...our biggest come back wins of the season, our biggest win of the season, Barry has done well under pressure when asked to do so.




Aside from outside shooting, when Manu was out, Barry managed to dish and rebound (he had season highs in each) even when his shot wasn't falling. So now that he's back on the bench two days later, where did that go? What did he bring to the table today? He didn't hit the boards .... he didn't pass that well.

His passing has been great all season long...as I have been saying...what's happened is during his starts he gets more time for people to see it rather than brief glimpses...

This guy does not get touches when he comes off of the bench and he does not handle the ball as much now as he did at the beginning of the season.



Like you, every Spurs fan wants Barry to succeed. And the Spurs have given him every opportunity to do so. They've had games where they run plays for him, they've had games where they have begged him to shoot. But it gets tiresome to watch him NOT perform. I thought the Barry signing was good. timvp thought it was great. But everyone was skeptical if he would be able to step up and find a role on a good team. Devin Brown is finding ways to contribute. Beno is finding ways to contribute. Barry needs to do whatever he can to do the same. It's not on Pop. It's not about running plays for him. It's about reaching inside yourself and finding ways to be a winner. He hasn't found that yet.

Kerr sucked his first year here too...it was the worst season of his career and he'd just come off of winning a title playing alongside Micheal Jordan in the 4th quarters of the finals...Was he doubting if he was a winner too?

[whottt]

The sad thing is Whotttt will be rooting for Devin Brown to choke so that he can be "proven" right.

Why do you say this to me TimVP?

Go find your start Devin Brown thread...

I want to win a title and what have I done to ever indicate otherwise?

I am just being honest...

Are you rooting for the Spurs to lose because you support Devin Brown?

The only guy that has truly choked on this team this entire season was Devin Brown in that Houston game...I am just being honest..he doesn't hit shots in crunchtime, he gets shaky...and neither does Beno.

But I guess we'll learn that whottt is right again...the hard way. I wasn't the one on Hedo and Anthony Carter and Charlies Ward's jocks last season. Make fun of my pics and liking Mercer and Heal over Hedo and Carter/Ward all you want, but they weren't the ones that choked. The TRUST POP guys choked.

And no... I won't be happy about it if it happens and we choke again...did I seem happy about it last season?

[Frenchise player]

Everyone is asking Barry to be traded?
And the problem will be resolved?
We bring him here because this team has a problem with his outside shot, we all acknowledge that Barry was one of the best shooters when he came to this team last season, who can we bring that can be better than him???
There aren't great shooters today in the NBA, if we really want a great shooter there are 3: Stojakovic, Redd and Allen. All the Hoiberg, Richardson, Korver guys are good today but can suck next year. In order to get a great shooter we have to hand out Manu or Parker.

If we all agree the biggest need of this team is an outside shooter then we should give to Barry all he needs to succeed, including playing time and systems he likes.
In my opinion, you won't get much more than Barry if you keep Manu, Tp and Duncan, I think that with these three we can win a championship every year and if we have only one weakness we can cope with it.

[Kori Ellis]

our biggest win of the season, Barry has done well under pressure when asked to do so.

First half of the season. It's crunch time now, baby. Bring you balls or go home.


...when he was actually given the opportunity to hit big shots he has done so.

One game against the Suns.


His passing has been great all season long...as I have been saying

No, it hasn't. He's made quite a few low IQ passes and been pulled from games because of it.


This guy does not get touches when he comes off of the bench and he does not handle the ball as much now as he did at the beginning of the season.

He hasn't done much with his touches, so they decline. It's cause and effect. Did you miss all the games where Barry has passed up wide open shots (not just 3's) and looked like a scared rabbit as he passes the ball to a teammate with the shot clock expiring and they have to hoist up a bad shot? Why would you want the ball in his hands if he doesn't want to do anything with it?


Kerr sucked his first year here too...it was the worst season of his career and he'd just come off of winning a title playing alongside Micheal Jordan in the 4th quarters of the finals...Was he doubting if he was a winner too?

Don't compare Barry's playoff track record to Kerr's.

[Kori Ellis]

and neither does Beno.

Bullshit. Beno has hit 3's that have been momentum changers many, many times this season.

[whottt]

By the way TimVP....for someone to root for their team to lose just so they could be proven right, that would be a person who wants to be right out of desperation...

In case you haven't noticed...I am right about 97.3% of the time...Being right is my natural state of being...

What I am desperate for is for my team to win an NBA title while Tim Duncan is in his prime and all the key pieces are in place...because this is a once in a lifetime dynastic opportunity for our little team. And I don't want to squander it because of a superficial and sensationalistic type analysis of players. Not to mention a stubborn refusal to utilize players strenghts because he doesn't play "Spurs Ball". Spurs Ball meaning perimeter chokes and 4th quarter collapses as much as it means champion.

[Gerryatrics]

Whottt -- Face the music, Barry is a wuss. Stop using the "he only got two shot attempts" bull excuse. If Beno Udrih, a rookie, can manage to find a way to get 13 shot attempts off in 20 minutes, then Mr. Veteran High Basketball IQ needs to reach in his shorts and find his balls and take some frickin' shots.

Who was handling the ball when Beno was tearing Detroit apart? Who was handling the ball when Beno was on the floor but didn't do shit? Who was handling the ball the majority of the time Barry was playing? I'll give you a hint, the answer to the last two are the same person, and he doesn't seem to understand the concept of perimeter passing or ball movement if it doesn't focus on Manu or Duncan. Beno played just as bad as Barry when Parker was handling the ball, when Parker went to the bench and Beno handled the ball, he tore it up. The Spurs ran, moved without the ball and kicked it out to open shooters. Barry's offense excels in that kind of offense.

What he doesn't do well is stand in the corner watching Duncan pump-fake for 20 seconds before he figures out whether or not he should shoot or pass, or watching TP dribble in to the quadruple-team in the paint and either hurling the ball at the basket or tossing the ball in the general direction of the three point line hoping someone is there. Beno is invisible out there when Parker runs the point, Barry is invisible when Parker runs the point, they both kick ass when they play together or when either one of them is running the point.

Why is it so hard to sub in Beno and Brent at the same time? Parker plays well with Manu and Duncan, while Beno, Barry and Rasho/Nazr play better together. Instead of trying to limit Barry to one dimension with this "He's just here to hit three's" crap, why don't the Spurs try actually getting him involved in the offense? He ran the entire freakin' offense in Seattle, he handled the ball, called the plays, spaced the floor, directed traffic and still found time to throw down a monster dunk, tear through the paint before the defense had a chance to get set and lay it up, and hit some big three's. Now his role is limited to standing in the corner and hitting the occasional three whenever Parker remembers he's out there? And we're wondering why he's struggling?

[whottt]

First half of the season. It's crunch time now, baby. Bring you balls or go home.

Ok...and Barry sucked before it was crunchtime by that definition, which means what ever his problem is it's not choking.




One game against the Suns.

The big FT's against the Piston's, the heady guard play against the Nets...The only choke I've seen him make late in a game was that pass to Devin recently...watch that play again and you'll see Devin freeze...just like he did in the Houston...that ball was right in front of Devin and Barry had just sucked Devin's defender in...Barry was looking Devin the entire time he was setting that up...Devin had to take one step and shoot...instead he ran behind Barry after Barry passed the ball, then froze and watched it go by him without ever moving his feet.




No, it hasn't. He's made quite a few low IQ passes and been pulled from games because of it.

Clear double standard here...statistically provable.

Barry is transition specialist...if you think those are bad or risky passes...be glad Jason Kidd was never on this team and be glad Pop holds Manu back.

Barry is the best passer on the team period. And it's not even close.




He hasn't done much with his touches, so they decline. It's cause and effect. Did you miss all the games where Barry has passed up wide open shots (not just 3's) and looked like a scared rabbit as he passes the ball to a teammate with the shot clock expiring and they have to hoist up a bad shot? Why would you want the ball in his hands if he doesn't want to do anything with it?

No I don't see Barry pass up that many open shots...and if he does he's usually passing the ball to some who is open closer to the basket....or someone he is in position to screen.

This guy is a very smart offensive player...maybe the smartest in the NBA and I think that more now than I did before.

As for his quick passes...again, he has played most of his career on transition teams where teams don't have Tim Duncan to pound it inside...quick passing is how those guys get off open shots without a dominant bigman to get them open.

Barry's passes are always fast. And so are Manu's..............







Don't compare Barry's playoff track record to Kerr's.

Why did Kerr suck here his first year? Was Steve Kerr choking too? I mean what was the reason that year?

[Kori Ellis]

In case you haven't noticed...I am right about 97.3% of the time...Being right is my natural state of being...

:lmao

That was seriously one of the funniest things I've ever seen someone post.

I can't wait to meet Whottt one day.

[Gerryatrics]

No, it hasn't. He's made quite a few low IQ passes and been pulled from games because of it.

So in three or four games he got caught in the air and threw a desperation pass that got batted down, and now he's a horrible passer? He did that all the time in Seattle, but Mac-10 didn't throw a hissy fit and pull Barry from the game. He told him to settle down, and he usually did. He had three assists, one steal and no turnovers in tonights game. His A/TO and TO per 48 are still way the heck up there. If you want to bag on his shooting, fine. But don't poke around for every little flaw because you're looking for a scapegoat.

[picnroll]

In case you haven't noticed...I am right about 97.3% of the time...Being right is my natural state of being...
Obviously this post was one of the 2.7% of times you're wrong.

[Kori Ellis]

No, I don't think he's a horrible passer; I think he's generally very good. But I just don't think his passing has been God-like. Sometimes, he makes stupid high-risk passes when a simple one will do. And I've seen him be pulled out of games because of it.

And I'm not looking for a scapegoat. The Spurs lost this game because of defense ... and that was because of no Duncan. That's easy to figure out.

But the Barry apologists need to realize that the majority of Barry's problems are not Pop's fault. They aren't Tony Parker's fault. They are Brent Barry's fault.

[stéphane]

Barry is transition specialist...if you think those are bad or risky passes...be glad Jason Kidd was never on this team and be glad Pop holds Manu back.

Barry is the best passer on the team period. And it's not even close.

....

Barry's passes are always fast. And so are Manu's..............



Passing = know where you teamates are (have a look or know it by heart) + know where your oppon. are + pass the ball...

barry seems to sometimes forget the 2nd step...

his Assist avg is quite low for his PT no?
so where go all those risky pass? It should make assist or you don't attempt them if it's not a pass that can make you score on your possession...

[Kori Ellis]

Who was handling the ball the majority of the time Barry was playing? I'll give you a hint, the answer to the last two are the same person, and he doesn't seem to understand the concept of perimeter passing or ball movement if it doesn't focus on Manu or Duncan.

Barry's best games this season have come as a starter -- and that's when he spends the majority of the time on the floor with Parker. So how do you figure that Parker holds him back?

[Gerryatrics]

And again, that was something he did from time to time in Seattle, just like passing up open shots and passing it to a teammate instead. People got on his case for it all the time, but he still played an overall great offensive game. Sonics fans were calling for him to be a player-coach if Nate got fired. Fans wanted the Sonics to sign him to a four year contract just so he would stay with the organization and could join the coaching staff when he retired. His basketball IQ isn't the problem, I personally think that stripping him of almost his entire game and limiting him to a single role he hasn't done his entire career is. Maybe if he got involved in the flow of the offense, like he did when he started for Manu, his shots would start falling. And no I'm not saying start him over Manu to get his confidence up, I'm just saying use a smart lineup, let him handle the ball or get more touches, and don't get cute with his minutes so he's jolted around.

[Rick Von Braun]

Here are my 2 cents,

I have been dissapointed with Barry's overall performance. I think he has had a difficult time to adapt to the Spurs offense. Most players that join the team do, so this is not surprising. He is shooting 3s at a lower rate than expected at the beginning of the season, and this is undeniable.

While letting him handle the ball more often in offense may help him improve his game and build his confidence (I am in favor of that!), as a professional player you adapt to the circumstances, and he has done a poor job at it. Defense is 70-80% will, and sometimes he just doesn't show it. I think he knows it.

Having said that, I have to agree with Whottt regarding his performances in the clutch. When the game is on the line, Brent's contributions have been very positive. To prove this, 82games.com people have collected statistics of the clutch moments of the game, defined as follows:

"Clutch Moments" defined as the last five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime, where neither team was ahead by more than five points.

The following is a comparative table for the 3 players being discussed in this thread.




Team Player Min PER dPER Diff +/- Rating
SAS Barry 41% 38.0 4.9 33.1 -8 31.2
SAS Udrih 18% 0.8 24.0 -23.2 +15 -14.9
SAS Brown 39% 14.6 35.0 -20.4 -15 -24.2

[stéphane]

was he threaten to come and play for the silver & black...
he knew he wouldn't be a starter. when you sign for a team as he did, you know what your role is gonna be...
the only answer you can make to your future coach is "I will/will not handle the job"...
he said he could and signed, now we're waiting for him to make what he promised to do...
barry is ... dissapointing :(

[Gerryatrics]

Barry's best games this season have come as a starter -- and that's when he spends the majority of the time on the floor with Parker. So how do you figure that Parker holds him back?

Quite simply, Minutes. When Barry starts he gets more minutes, gets more consistant playing time, plays more with the reserves (beno) and plays more in the fourth quarter. His game is still more limited than it was in Seattle, and he still doesn't play *great*, but he does get a chance to get in to the flow of the game and of the offense.

[Guru of Nothing]

I'm with Whott and Gerryatrics on this, from what little I have observed lately. My League Pass seems to have a smaller presence on my TV than Hedo does on the court in May.

Wasn't too long ago the big buzzword in Pop's vernacular was "matchups." Now, with the embarrasment of talent the Spurs have, matchups ought to take a backseat to "combinations."

[picnroll]

Did Barry not understand the Spurs offense when he signed? Seems like a guy with a high BBall IQ would understand how the Spurs play. Were the Spurs supposed to change their entire offense to accomodate Barry? I think Spurs and Barry are both surprised he can't get the job he was supposed to do done.

[Guru of Nothing]

Uhm, the Spurs team has changed dramatically over the past two/three years. I consider them a work of art in progress.

So, to answer your question, yes, I think the Spurs should change, although I think the term evolve is much more appropriate.

[picnroll]

Yeah they've evolved. They post up. They run pick and roll. They play transition. They play the passing game. You'd think in all that Barry would be able to find a couple of shots.

In the playoffs the good teams will take away a lot of post ups and penetration. Transition game will go bye bye. Baryy can't hit the outside shots he was brought here to hit in the playofss Spurs are dependent on Manu, Brown, Horry and could well be fucked.

[ducks]

why should the spurs change their o to fit one guy
what happens if they change their o and all the spur players except barry are off then
barry is paid much more then kerr was
people expect him to live up to his contract
kerr was cheap and he was used for spot minutes
barry was suppose to be a candiate for a 6 man award
the problem with barry is beno is playing better now is not the backup point
but barry also was brought to hit outside shots
he sucks
I would rather have hedo or stephen jackson

[Guru of Nothing]

He has found a couple of shots.

You think Barry sucks - fine.

Me, I think there is work to be done.

[ducks]

he has sucked so far this season
yes their is work to do
but this late in the season you play 8-9 people
and right now barry is playing like a 12 man not a 6 man

[baseline bum]

Why would the Spurs ever want to change Parker's or Ginobili's roles for Barry? They with Duncan form the core of the team and they're performing incredibly together. Asking Pop to change the offense for Barry would be like trading for Carlos Boozer and telling Duncan to move off the block (which is the main reason I'm in shock every time this board gets wet over the thought of landing him). Barry knew exactly what his role was going to be when he signed here. He knew he had to hit open shots first and foremost, and anything else he could bring was a bonus. It's his job to fit into a winning system. There is absolutely no reason to change something that has the team playing so well with Ginobili, Parker, and Duncan ripping the league a new asshole.

[whottt]

Thanks Kori :). It'll probably be disappointing though...I am a pretty low key guy away from this board.

[whottt]

I just noticed that Gerryatrics is a SonicsFan...perhaps he know what he's talking about?

I don't think Parker is the problem though and I don't think it's got anything to do with minutes or starting either...it's just touches. I think he needs to hit an easy shot to get his 3 point shot cranked up...and I think he is getting some of the plays normally ran for Manu when he starts...hence the difference.

And yes, I imagine he thought it would be easier to hit threes on a team with Tim Duncan like we all did....but it's just not the same.

This guy is used to rushing his shots and not getting time to just stand around and measure up a 3 shot...he used to hitting threes under more pressure IMO...without getting much time to think about it...

And I think his passing is indicative of the way he would like be passed too...

I cannot stress enough how much I disagree with the categorization of Barry as a choker though...I thought he kind of might be before this season....but after watching him I have come to the conclusion that he most definitely is not a choker, at least not in the regular season...and RVB's stats back me up on this(97.5% now :) )...


You guys act like he's never been on a good team or been in a playoff chase before...he has...

You want pressure? Try to make the freaking playoffs on the Clippers...That's pressure. He shot 42% the year we played Seattle in the playoffs...

When I look at him I don't think he's afraid...he looks like a pissed off prick to me(like his Dad actually, he is a dead ringer for his Dad, facial expressions and all, and his dad was most certainly not a choker) and it catches me off guard when he says something funny because of his expression...I don't see fear though...his Dad had that same icy stare.

[whottt]

Why would the Spurs ever want to change Parker's or Ginobili's roles for Barry? They with Duncan form the core of the team and they're performing incredibly together. Asking Pop to change the offense for Barry would be like trading for Carlos Boozer and telling Duncan to move off the block (which is the main reason I'm in shock every time this board gets wet over the thought of landing him). Barry knew exactly what his role was going to be when he signed here. He knew he had to hit open shots first and foremost, and anything else he could bring was a bonus. It's his job to fit into a winning system. There is absolutely no reason to change something that has the team playing so well with Ginobili, Parker, and Duncan ripping the league a new asshole.


Geez Base...you act like we gotta tear up the whole offensive playbook just to run a couple of plays for him...how is running plays for him going to hurt Manu and Parker's game? The better Barry scores the easy it will be for them to score...

And that's crap about the Spurs not adjusting for Manu's game either...they have adjusted to his game...and Parker's.

And Duncan is Duncan...nothing fucks up his game except 4 down.

[texbumTHElife]

I think the solution to Barry's problem is to play him at the 3 in back up of Bowen. Give him the corner shots that Bowen gets. He cant do the same things Manu can come in and do (or even Devin Brown) and asking him to do them isnt right. However, give him that one quick screen play Bowen gets and the corner kick out 3's and he would be money. I also think he spent too much time on the bench getting preached too just like Tony did his first couple of seasons. The more he is allowed to be loose the better he will play. Tim thrives under that pressure situation Pop presents but other players dont, Tony Parker for example. Maybe Barry fits into more of a Parker mold.

Just my opinion.

[Gerryatrics]

I don't think Parker is the problem though and I don't think it's got anything to do with minutes or starting either...it's just touches. I think he needs to hit an easy shot to get his 3 point shot cranked up...and I think he is getting some of the plays normally ran for Manu when he starts...hence the difference.

I agree about the touches, and... Barry with Parker running the point equals less touches, Barry with Beno running the Point equals more touches. Not to mention Barry with Barry running the point.

Also, Barry starting equals more minutes which equals more touches. Barry playing more time with Beno and some of the other reserves equals more touches. That's why he plays better when he starts, in my opinion anyway.

Add on Barry with the Spurs actually running a play for him once or twice equals more touches and Barry with a small/fast lineup and pressure defense equals fast breaks which equal more touches...

I'm not saying Barry's shooting problems are because of Parker, they aren't, the only person you can put his shot on is Brent Barry. But he does play better with Beno running the point (remember, Beno = more touches) and he plays better when he gets involved with the offense instead of just standing in the corner watching the game. I don't think it would take a massive overhaul of the entire offense to get him touches, have him slash and attack the basket and give him a chance to make some of those sweet passes he's (in)famous for. He doesn't need to start, just get him involved in the offense and get him more touches. Then maybe, just maybe, when he's able to bring back the rest of his game, he'll feel comfortable with his shot, stop over-thinking and trying to finesse it, and his percentage will start to rise again.

Cheers,

Gerry