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101A
04-23-2009, 09:47 AM
I don't think things will go as far as the author suggests...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124044375842145565.html



Presidential Poison

His invitation to indict Bush officials will haunt Obama's Presidency.


Mark down the date. Tuesday, April 21, 2009, is the moment that any chance of a new era of bipartisan respect in Washington ended. By inviting the prosecution of Bush officials for their antiterror legal advice, President Obama has injected a poison into our politics that he and the country will live to regret.


Policy disputes, often bitter, are the stuff of democratic politics. Elections settle those battles, at least for a time, and Mr. Obama's victory in November has given him the right to change policies on interrogations, Guantanamo, or anything on which he can muster enough support. But at least until now, the U.S. political system has avoided the spectacle of a new Administration prosecuting its predecessor for policy disagreements. This is what happens in Argentina, Malaysia or Peru, countries where the law is treated merely as an extension of political power.
If this analogy seems excessive, consider how Mr. Obama has framed the issue. He has absolved CIA operatives of any legal jeopardy, no doubt because his intelligence advisers told him how damaging that would be to CIA morale when Mr. Obama needs the agency to protect the country. But he has pointedly invited investigations against Republican legal advisers who offered their best advice at the request of CIA officials.
"Your intelligence indicates that there is currently a level of 'chatter' equal to that which preceded the September 11 attacks," wrote Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee, in his August 1, 2002 memo. "In light of the information you believe [detainee Abu] Zubaydah has and the high level of threat you believe now exists, you wish to move the interrogations into what you have described as an 'increased pressure phase.'"
So the CIA requests a legal review at a moment of heightened danger, the Justice Department obliges with an exceedingly detailed analysis of the law and interrogation practices -- and, seven years later, Mr. Obama says only the legal advisers who are no longer in government should be investigated. The political convenience of this distinction for Mr. Obama betrays its basic injustice. And by the way, everyone agrees that senior officials, including President Bush, approved these interrogations. Is this President going to put his predecessor in the dock too?
Mr. Obama seemed to understand the peril of such an exercise when he said, before his inauguration, that he wanted to "look forward" and beyond the antiterror debates of the Bush years. As recently as Sunday, Rahm Emanuel said no prosecutions were contemplated and now is not a time for "anger and retribution." Two days later the President disavowed his own chief of staff. Yet nothing had changed except that Mr. Obama's decision last week to release the interrogation memos unleashed a revenge lust on the political left that he refuses to resist.
Just as with the AIG bonuses, he is trying to co-opt his left-wing base by playing to it -- only to encourage it more. Within hours of Mr. Obama's Tuesday comments, Senator Carl Levin piled on with his own accusatory Intelligence Committee report. The demands for a "special counsel" at Justice and a Congressional show trial are louder than ever, and both Europe's left and the U.N. are signaling their desire to file their own charges against former U.S. officials.
Those officials won't be the only ones who suffer if all of this goes forward. Congress will face questions about what the Members knew and when, especially Nancy Pelosi when she was on the House Intelligence Committee in 2002. The Speaker now says she remembers hearing about waterboarding, though not that it would actually be used. Does anyone believe that? Porter Goss, her GOP counterpart at the time, says he knew exactly what he was hearing and that, if anything, Ms. Pelosi worried the CIA wasn't doing enough to stop another attack. By all means, put her under oath.
Mr. Obama may think he can soar above all of this, but he'll soon learn otherwise. The Beltway's political energy will focus more on the spectacle of revenge, and less on his agenda. The CIA will have its reputation smeared, and its agents second-guessing themselves. And if there is another terror attack against Americans, Mr. Obama will have set himself up for the argument that his campaign against the Bush policies is partly to blame.
Above all, the exercise will only embitter Republicans, including the moderates and national-security hawks Mr. Obama may need in the next four years. As patriotic officials who acted in good faith are indicted, smeared, impeached from judgeships or stripped of their academic tenure, the partisan anger and backlash will grow. And speaking of which, when will the GOP Members of Congress begin to denounce this partisan scapegoating? Senior Republicans like Mitch McConnell, Richard Lugar, John McCain, Orrin Hatch, Pat Roberts and Arlen Specter have hardly been profiles in courage.
Mr. Obama is more popular than his policies, due in part to his personal charm and his seeming goodwill. By indulging his party's desire to criminalize policy advice, he has unleashed furies that will haunt his Presidency.

JoeChalupa
04-23-2009, 09:52 AM
I agree. Need to look forward.

Lebowski Brickowski
04-23-2009, 09:59 AM
I agree. Need to look forward.

"We need to move FORWARD, not BACKWARD! UPWARD, not DOWNWARD! And always twirling, TWIRLING TOWARDS FREEDOM!!!!!"

clambake
04-23-2009, 10:04 AM
let the law run it's course.

there's always presidential pardons.

ElNono
04-23-2009, 10:08 AM
You broke the law, you SHOULD be judged. I hate how if you're a politician, you get a pass, in the name of 'bipartisan respect'.

DarrinS
04-23-2009, 10:12 AM
As smart as Obama is and with as much as he has on his plate, I was surprised that he made such a stupid decision. Oh well. The box is open and now you can't close it.


My guess is that he was trying to appease the more rabid mouth-breathing wing of his base -- people that think Dick Cheney is more evil than Osama bin Laden.

clambake
04-23-2009, 10:16 AM
My guess is that he was trying to appease the more rabid mouth-breathing wing of his base -- people that think Dick Cheney is more evil than Osama bin Laden.

good point. if they were to pin the whole thing on dick, count me in.

DarrinS
04-23-2009, 10:20 AM
good point. if they were to pin the whole thing on dick, count me in.


Mav fan has love/hate relationship with dick.

Extra Stout
04-23-2009, 10:21 AM
This will set a lovely precedent for persecuting political liberals when there is a right-wing backlash in the U.S. government or one of its regional successor states (think the South).

Great long-term thinking, Mr. President. Way to use that brain. :tu

clambake
04-23-2009, 10:24 AM
Mav fan has love/hate relationship with dick.

why do you guys go straight for the junk?

i don't think the right would really care if dick got busted on something, and the left would throw a party. it would bring the sides together, even if it's only fleeting.

JoeChalupa
04-23-2009, 10:25 AM
As smart as Obama is and with as much as he has on his plate, I was surprised that he made such a stupid decision. Oh well. The box is open and now you can't close it.


My guess is that he was trying to appease the more rabid mouth-breathing wing of his base -- people that think Dick Cheney is more evil than Osama bin Laden.

I concur. Obama is not going to be perfect and on this I disagree with his decision.

DarrinS
04-23-2009, 10:30 AM
why do you guys go straight for the junk?

i don't think the right would really care if dick got busted on something, and the left would throw a party. it would bring the sides together, even if it's only fleeting.


I was just screwing with you.

clambake
04-23-2009, 10:31 AM
I was just screwing with you.

i know. :toast

ChumpDumper
04-23-2009, 11:07 AM
Nothing is going to happen with this.

Winehole23
04-23-2009, 11:11 AM
My guess is that he was trying to appease the more rabid mouth-breathing wing of his base -- people that think Dick Cheney is more evil than Osama bin Laden.More evil? No.

More dangerous to traditional American liberties? Without any doubt whatsoever, yes.

MannyIsGod
04-23-2009, 11:13 AM
Somehow everyone misses this was never Obama's decision to make and he should never have acted like it was. The President does not, and should not, get to decide who is above the law and who it applies to.

Since when is the GOP wanting to be anything but tough on crime anyway?

Winehole23
04-23-2009, 11:17 AM
Nothing is going to happen with this.You mean the principals will skate, right?

I see a possible (though powerless) Truth Commission, and Holder hasn't ruled out going after the OLC lawyers who gave us the torture policy. Do you see all this as improbable too?

ChumpDumper
04-23-2009, 11:22 AM
I see some hearings and more document releases -- but really, what are you going to charge these people with? War crimes? The attorneys may be dragged through the mud a bit, but they'll end up being legal analysts for Fox News.

Extra Stout
04-23-2009, 11:24 AM
Somehow everyone misses this was never Obama's decision to make and he should never have acted like it was. The President does not, and should not, get to decide who is above the law and who it applies to.

Since when is the GOP wanting to be anything but tough on crime anyway?
The Attorney General doesn't answer to the President anymore?

MannyIsGod
04-23-2009, 11:28 AM
The Attorney General doesn't answer to the President anymore?

Not before the Constitution and the law of the land. They take oaths to that, NOT the President.

clambake
04-23-2009, 11:29 AM
unless you're alberto.

boutons_deux
04-23-2009, 11:32 AM
Condi lied to Congress. Go get her

Extra Stout
04-23-2009, 11:52 AM
Not before the Constitution and the law of the land. They take oaths to that, NOT the President.
You're using weasel words. Obama directed Holder not to pursue prosecution against CIA operatives who carried out torture, while giving him discretion on whether or not to go after the lawyers. That's the plain face of what happened, and the President shared his decision with the public.

I guess since the President apparently decided that CIA operatives are above the law and the law doesn't apply to them, you should be pretty upset with him. I mean, yeah, maybe ultimately they would have a viable defense, since they got legal advice that what they were doing was OK, but why should the President get to make that call? The AG is accountable only to the Constitution, right? Just because Obama is the Chief Executive of the land doesn't mean he should make judgment calls about how to appropriate scarce resources among his subordinates!

And yeah, maybe prosecuting CIA operatives would have a chilling effect on CIA morale and hamper national security, but the President can't make judgment calls about competing priorities or undesirable precedents like that! Nobody is above the law!

Where is your consistency?

Wild Cobra
04-23-2009, 12:19 PM
How many times must I say it. He will go down as one of the worse presidents in history.

ChumpDumper
04-23-2009, 12:32 PM
How many times must I say it. He will go down as one of the worse presidents in history.Bush certainly will. The reasons pile higher every day.

MannyIsGod
04-23-2009, 12:43 PM
You're using weasel words. Obama directed Holder not to pursue prosecution against CIA operatives who carried out torture, while giving him discretion on whether or not to go after the lawyers. That's the plain face of what happened, and the President shared his decision with the public.

I guess since the President apparently decided that CIA operatives are above the law and the law doesn't apply to them, you should be pretty upset with him. I mean, yeah, maybe ultimately they would have a viable defense, since they got legal advice that what they were doing was OK, but why should the President get to make that call? The AG is accountable only to the Constitution, right? Just because Obama is the Chief Executive of the land doesn't mean he should make judgment calls about how to appropriate scarce resources among his subordinates!

And yeah, maybe prosecuting CIA operatives would have a chilling effect on CIA morale and hamper national security, but the President can't make judgment calls about competing priorities or undesirable precedents like that! Nobody is above the law!

Where is your consistency?

My consitency is right here. I'm not sure where I displayed any opinion towards the President's actions concerning CIA operatives so I'm not sure why're you're acting as though I've contradicted myself.

It is not the President's place to make any of these decisions, the above included. Just because he made it and has reasoning for it doesn't mean he should have the right or ability to do so. The defense of following orders did not stand up for the Nazi's yet we see no problems in using it for ourselves.

There would undoubtbly be consequences for such prosecutions but that is something in the future we should think about before breaking the law, not afterwards. The law is not there to be followed only when it suits us and is convient.

And for you to claim I'm using weasle words then turn around and act like Obama did this because of "scarce resources" is incredibly not like you. It has nothing to do with the scarce resources of the Justice Deptarment. What, are they too busy with online gambling and drug prosecutions to actually do important work? Give me a break.

I understand the reasoning for Obama's decision and Holder has the right to presecute whomever he deems he should of course. But I Obama has overextended his power here and I've never said otherwise ES. Please don't act as if I have.

JoeChalupa
04-23-2009, 12:44 PM
How many times must I say it. He will go down as one of the worse presidents in history.

You can say it as many times as you want if it makes you feel better and considering the majority of Obama's history as president hasn't even occurred yet it is clear where you stand.

Marcus Bryant
04-23-2009, 01:46 PM
Obama will be judged historically as Bush will be, by how much he furthered the greatness of the state, and, of course, fit the political predilections of those sitting in judgment.