10 R(S)easons to question the R.C. Buford

[BadOne]

Not to overlook the current playoffs or anything like that, the Spurs are as resilient now as they've ever been before. There breakdown this season and post season is not at all at the fault of their players. not when you look at the bigger picture.

With an aging unit and injury plagued season, these San Antonio Spurs may look like the least talented group of Spurs we’ve seen since before Tim Duncan was drafted. Taking nothing away from Five 'O, Avery and Sean, but this doesn't look like the championship team we're all familiar with. With all that said, it’s still not panic time in San Antonio. Yes, Tim is injured, but he’s still Tim Duncan, the greatest power forward to ever play the game. Once he’s healed, he’s a dominant force. That unfortunately may not fully occur until the off season. Manu Ginobili is still this team’s X factor, but with him out indefinitely, also due to injury, it makes some wonder if they can even win in the first round of the playoffs. His off season recovery will also be vital to next season. Tony Parker is in his prime. He is one of the best point guards in the league, and aside from Derek Fisher, has more rings than any other point guard in the league. Greg Popovich is one of the greatest coaches in league history. Many claim it is only because of the talent his team has had with the Admiral, and then the Big Fundamental. Greg himself makes this same modest disagreement when publicly praised. This however is what makes him so great. He’s an all win, no excuse making coach. In a decisive game 4 during the 2008 Western Conference Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, an obvious foul was made on then Spurs reserve SG Brent Barry during the closing seconds. The referees [Danny Crawford in particular] completely ignored the foul, waiving it off and ending regulation with the Lakers winning the game and grabbing momentum from the then defending champ Spurs, ultimately closing out the series in, what appeared to be, an easy 5 games. Greg made no argument, and even credited the refereeing staff that night…clearly a humble response. What of, then, the supporting cast. How can the bench and role players be summarized?

Age alone cannot be to blame for their inconsistencies, can it? If it were simply a matter of their offense being absent, then the same ol’ “too old” argument would not be an adequate explanation. Sometimes, the ball just won’t go in the hole. This is, however, not the case since both their offense and defense have significantly plunged this season. The losses last season and this season alike cannot be blamed on shoddy officiating alone. With the exception of a hobbled Manu Ginobili, the team’s stars were playing as their usual selves. It was their supporting cast that was clearly out matched against the Lakers, and in some games the Hornets. There is no question that in their youth and early 30’s, the likes of a Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto, Jauque Vaughn Robert Horry and a Kurt Thomas were formidable players as teammates. The fact, however, is that all of these players are beyond their prime time years. Well beyond. Half of these guys are knocking on the door to 40. Bowen used to be the prime Kobe stopper in 03, even in 04, however he was barely in his early 30’s then. There is no disputing that for men at their ages, they are athletic, finely tuned hard working basketball players. Their basketball intelligence alone is superior to many. But they are up against, younger, faster, and sometimes more stronger players.

So why is it that a perennial team whose standard of winning is almost always expected, never evolves? When people say the Spurs are done, its clear exaggeration, typically spoken out of frustration by the passionate or fair weathered fan, or by those who have a sense of satisfaction in saying so since the Spurs have competed with or in some cases dominated their teams so often . This is still a good basketball team. They are still playoff contenders, and when all healthy, you can never count them out in any playoff series. Unfortunately the one reason that the Spurs have been so great for the past decade, is the same reason they are declining…the front office. As General Manager, R.C. Buford has brought in some of the best role players this team has known to help out the big 3, and earlier on, the twin towers. The off season addition of Roger Mason Jr. is clearly a gamble he won. There have been many other role players in this teams past that have made the difference during their time in S.A. When you look at, however, what Buford has given to obtain these role players, one can’t help but wonder if it was worth it all. Yes the Spurs have 4 championships. Heck, had it not been for bad calls made down the stretch, they might have had 7 by now. Yet it is reckless in my opinion to only build a team around the veteran free-agent market, and not the draft. With the exception of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, the Spurs have made nothing of their prospects from their drafts within this past decade since they drafted Duncan in 97. Why is it, that Buford and Pop only seek those who are seasoned [some over-seasoned] in their careers? They freely trade away invaluable picks every season of what could eventually become well proven leaders and all stars during the long run. And for what? 2-3 years MAX of consistent contributions as opposed to 1-2 years of serious molding and up to 10 years of consistent contributions. Could it be that Pop has grown too impatient with molding players and chooses to win now? Any and all true contingency plans in draft picks this team has had in the past 10 years, might have been traded if not given away to other teams. Other draft picks were spent on foreign players who were likely under contract with their respective overseas teams. Some of which may never play in an NBA game despite being drafted. These opinions are my own, but one can’t help but wonder if R.C. Buford traded away what could have been a very deep and dangerous bench that would’ve rivaled or even trumped that of the Lakers today. As we look back, you’ve gotta wonder what could’ve been had it not been for the whole Jason Kidd free agent fiasco in 03-04. Even now, the Spurs 08 draft pick, George Hill, sees very limited playing time. [Although he’s seen a lot more than expected thanks to earlier injuries to Parker and Ginobili] Patience is truly a virtue, but it’s one we all know Pop has very little of. So what’s Buford’s excuse?

A look back on what some might consider wasted opportunities…
--------------------

San Antonio Spurs Draft Picks within the past 10 years

2009
25. [1st Round Pick Traded pick to Seattle/OKC for Kurt Thomas in ‘08]
37.
53.
54.

2008
26. George Hill
45. Goran Dragic [Traded to Phoenix for rights to Malik Hariston] - Malik Hariston just recently waived.
57. James Gist - Not signed...currently "developing" overseas

2007
28. Tiago Splitter – Recently re-signed w/ Tau Cermica in Spain for more money than the NBA could have paid him. [Could have gotten Carl Landry (Rockets)]
33. Marcus Williams - Initially Waived…recently re-signed to Spurs for remainder of 2009 season, but sent back to Austin Toros.
58. Giorgos Printezis [Traded to Toronto for Matt Bonner]

2006
29. Mardy Collins [Traded to New York for Nazr Mohammed in ‘05]
59. Damir Markota [Traded to Milwaukee for cash]

2005
28. Ian Mahinmi – Initially spent rookie season with Austin Toros [D-League]. Currently out indefinitely with injury. [Could have gotten David Lee (Knicks), Salim Stoudemire (Hawks), Brandon Bass (Hornets, now plays for Mavs), Monta Ellis (Warriors)]

2004
28. Beno Udrih – Fell out of favor with Pop. Traded to T-Wolves, waived, now plays for Kings.
[Could have gotten Trevor Ariza (Knicks…now plays for Lakers)]
52. Romain Sato - Waived
57. Sergei Karaulov - Never signed. Still overseas…

2003
28. Leandro Barbosa [Traded to Phoenix for a future first-round pick to save cap space to attempt to sign Jason Kidd. Kidd rejected offer and re-signed with New Jersey Nets]
[Could have gotten Josh Howard (Mavericks)]

2002
26. John Salmons [Traded to 76ers for Speedy Claxton...played for Kings, recently traded to Bulls.]
56. Luis Scola – Scola’s contract with Tau Ceramica was too expensive for Spurs to buy out. In 2007 San Antonio traded Scola to Houston for Vassilis Spanoulis who was immediately waived afterwards.
57. Randy Holcomb [Traded to Philadelphia for Speedy Claxton]

2001
[I]28. Tony Parker – All Star
56. Robertas Javtokas – Never signed. Still overseas…
58. Bryan Bracey - Waived

2000
41. Chris Carrawell - Waived
54. Cory Hightower[Traded to LA Lakers for two future second-round picks]

1999
29. Leon Smith[Traded to Mavericksfor Gordan Giricek…Giriceck then traded to Memphis for a future second-round pick]
57. Emanuel D. Ginobili – All Star

1998
24. Felipe Lopez (immediately traded along with Carl Herrera, to the Vancouver Grizzlies for point guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_guard) Antonio Daniels)
52. Derrick Dial (Played for the Spurs until 2001…pretty much a bust)

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So, it looks like we've done a wonderful job in the draft in the past 10 years, as you've listed, but why are you questioning the FO?

[BadOne]

So, it looks like we've done a wonderful job in the draft in the past 10 years, as you've listed, but why are you questioning the FO?
I respect your opinion, however only 3 major players have been developed since 97 since Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. The thread is about possible missed opportunities in the drafts, which are moves made by the FO.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I respect your opinion, however only 3 major players have been developed since 97 since Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. The thread is about possible missed opportunities in the drafts, which are moves made by the FO.

Name the other teams in the past 10 years who have drafted 2 all stars picking in the late first and second round.

[Josepatches_]

But can you name how many teams drafted 3 all stars last 10 years?? And now how many of them were out of the lottery so they can't pick in the top15?? And now how many of them won 50 games so they picked below the number 20-25.??

Only the San Antonio Spurs did so it's a good work for me.
When we are a lottery team and we pick bad players then this thread will have more sense

[Josepatches_]

Name the other teams in the past 10 years who have drafted 2 all stars picking in the late first and second round.

We wrote the same.:lol:lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Not only have we found 2 gems picking late, but we've also done great job of using the almost useless late 1st round picks in trades to acquire important pieces in championship runs.

[Rogue]

at least the spurs haven't made a nobrain draft like the kwame brown one, or a terrible draft night trade like the jefferson for griffin one that the rockets made in 01.

[Rogue]

Not only have we found 2 gems picking late, but we've also done great job of using the almost useless late 1st round picks in trades to acquire important pieces in championship runs.
the one used in Kurt's trade? :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

the one used in Kurt's trade? :lol

So it would have resulted in drafting which scrub at 25 in this awful draft class? Moreover, adding guaranteed salary before the 2010 summer?

Stick to your Mavs dude, they're doing really well right now.

[timaios]

Name 1 team who won 4 titles in last decade ! :toast

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

[tlongII]

I read the reactions to posts like this and I still can't believe how Spurs fans give their FO such a free pass for their drafts and moves? Everybody keeps falling back on the "Who else has drafted 3 All Stars in the last 10 years card?"! SO WHAT? It's a "What have you done for me lately?" world!

In the last 7 drafts, the Spurs FO has been inept! They've actually drafted some good players like Salmons, Scola, Barbosa, Udrih, and Splitter, but they've signed ZERO of them! Picking George Hill during this last draft was a mistake too. Even if he does develop into a reliable bench player (which I doubt) he still could have been had in the 2nd round.

I just don't get it. You let these pompous fools promote themselves to presidents within the Spurs' organization while they haven't done anything for the past 7 years!

[ElNono]

Hindsight is 20/20... You don't know any of those guys would develop the way they did.
This thread is :sleep

[BadOne]

Sorry folkz, didn't mean to cause a ruckus...the post isn't saying that the FO doesn't find talent. There is no arguement there. The problem is them not utilizing or molding it.
I still say it loud and proud peeps! GO SPURS GO.
I just can't help but wonder what a difference it'd be right now if our starting team was this:

PG: G. Hill
SG: R. Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: T. Ariza
PF: T. Duncan
C: D. Lee or Carl Landry

[ElNono]

Sorry folkz, didn't mean to cause a ruckus...the post isn't saying that the FO doesn't find talent. There is no arguement there. The problem is them not utilizing it.
I still say it loud and proud peeps! GO SPURS GO.
I just can't help but wonder what a difference it'd be right now if our starting team was this:

PG: G. Hill
SG: R. Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: T. Ariza
PF: T. Duncan
C: D. Lee or Carl Landry

Wonder away. I would take this team all day over that one:

PG: Parker
SG: Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: Bowen
PF: Duncan
C: Gooden

[Agloco]

I read the reactions to posts like this and I still can't believe how Spurs fans give their FO such a free pass for their drafts and moves? Everybody keeps falling back on the "Who else has drafted 3 All Stars in the last 10 years card?"! SO WHAT? It's a "What have you done for me lately?" world!

In the last 7 drafts, the Spurs FO has been inept! They've actually drafted some good players like Salmons, Scola, Barbosa, Udrih, and Splitter, but they've signed ZERO of them! Picking George Hill during this last draft was a mistake too. Even if he does develop into a reliable bench player (which I doubt) he still could have been had in the 2nd round.

I just don't get it. You let these pompous fools promote themselves to presidents within the Spurs' organization while they haven't done anything for the past 7 years!


Except win 3 Championships.....

Oh, I forgot. Drafting busts like Sam Bowie and Greg Oden should be the priority for any FO right? Say what you want to about the past 7 years, the results speak for themselves.

[tlongII]

Except win 3 Championships.....

Oh, I forgot. Drafting busts like Sam Bowie and Greg Oden should be the priority for any FO right? Say what you want to about the past 7 years, the results speak for themselves.

Typical response. I expected as much. The FO didn't win those championships. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili did.

[ploto]

Parker was drafted in 2001. It is now 2009. You realize that the person most credited with the drafting of Tony does not even work for the Spurs anymore.

[tmtcsc]

Let' see...Here are the last 10 NBA Champions:

1. Boston Celtics (2008)
2. San Antonio Spurs (2007)
3. Miami Heat (2006)
4. San Antonio Spurs (2005)
5. Detroit Pistons (2004)
6. San Antonio Spurs (2003)
7. LA Lakers (2002)
8. LA Lakers (2001)
9. LA Lakers (2000)
10. San Antono Spurs (1999)

Which of the teams listed above drafted 3 All Stars ?

It's very clear that a team's success is not built in the draft but rather through free agency and trades. In fact, it could be argued that the Spurs were the only Championship team to draft its own studs and its not even close.

The Lakers got Shaq through FA

The Pistons got Rasheed, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups through trades

The Celtics got Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Posey and Rondo through trades

Miami got Shaq and Alonzo through trades and Free Agency

Your theory actually shows how fortunate the Spurs were and how good they were at drafting championship caliber players. -- Duncan, Parker and Ginobili.

In addition, the Front office has done an outstanding job of acquiring FA's that have turned out to be difference makers.

I don't think we passed up on any player listed that went on to either win rings or become All Star. Did Josh Howard or Ellis ever become All Stars ? I'm not sure.

[Harry Callahan]

Please name me a team that can replenish it's roster drafting in the bottom five or six picks for the last freaking decade.

I love Mr Trail Blazer chiming in about the Spurs front office when that team has not been a serious threat for ten years and has had a bunch of chances to draft in the 1st five picks recently. What has Portland accomplished in the playoffs since 1999? Anyone? Anyone? And that prized pick Oden (Bowie, Jr) will not accomplish half of what Kevin Durant will as an NBA player.

Drafting year after year after year in the 24 spot or worse makes it next to impossible to replenish a championship level squad when the core ages. It does not matter who is in the front office - it is impossible. A team gets to be great (almost without exception) by drafting in the top five picks and building around great players.

The Spurs filled in around Robinson and moreso Duncan pretty well. Manu and Parker obviously helped tremendously. Few players drafted as low as they were drafted have achieved so much.

[mrspurs]

Looks like a list of overseas scrubs. And as long Pop is coaching. Thats all this team will find. Buy American and watch how fast things start to shine. If your gonna waste time with non American then send them to Austin. Wait thats what we always do. Tim Duncan should do the city of San Antonio a favor and retire himself. He cant make a layup or block a shot. Whats his PO average so far. Something like 14 points per game. Wow what a beast. hahahahahahaha

[rascal]

The front office sucks. No significant trades for an all star or even borderline star, no free agent difference makers. You hand Robinson and Duncan to any other front office to build around and they would win.

The Lakers won 3 titles during Robinson and Duncans prime years together. The spurs are a pitiful front office getting handed Robinson and Duncan thru lottery luck and still getting outdone by the Lakers during Robinson and Duncans prime years together.

[rascal]

Please name me a team that can replenish it's roster drafting in the bottom five or six picks for the last freaking decade.

I love Mr Trail Blazer chiming in about the Spurs front office when that team has not been a serious threat for ten years and has had a bunch of chances to draft in the 1st five picks recently. What has Portland accomplished in the playoffs since 1999? Anyone? Anyone? And that prized pick Oden (Bowie, Jr) will not accomplish half of what Kevin Durant will as an NBA player.

Drafting year after year after year in the 24 spot or worse makes it next to impossible to replenish a championship level squad when the core ages. It does not matter who is in the front office - it is impossible. A team gets to be great (almost without exception) by drafting in the top five picks and building around great players.

The Spurs filled in around Robinson and moreso Duncan pretty well. Manu and Parker obviously helped tremendously. Few players drafted as low as they were drafted have achieved so much.

The lakers reloaded quickly. I don't care if its through trades or free agency a good front office will use all the necessary tools to get the players and trades and free agency are great ways to reload a team. The spurs have a bad track record getting players through trades and free agency.

[Trimble87]

You have to take the good along with the bad when it comes to these decisions. We have made some amazing pick ups like Tony and Manu that no one else saw, and missed some opportunities like Howard and Scola etc etc etc. No FO is perfect, and no team wins every time. We, as a fanbase, are unbelievably spoiled by the success of this team. We should all take a breath and enjoy it before its gone.

[Trimble87]

The lakers reloaded quickly. I don't care if its through trades or free agency a good front office will use all the necessary tools to get the players and trades and free agency are great ways to reload a team. The spurs have a bad track record getting players through trades and free agency.

the lakers are a 4-8 seed and not in contention for the title if not for the Gasol give-away. This would have been the fourth first round loss in a row if not for the grizzlies imho.

[tlongII]

the lakers are a 4-8 seed and not in contention for the title if not for the Gasol give-away. This would have been the fourth first round loss in a row if not for the grizzlies imho.

Well the fact of the matter is that they DID get Gasol. San Antonio hasn't done anything as far as acquiring top level talent in the last 7 years. I agree that you should enjoy the team you have, but giving the FO a free pass is a joke. Do you think we gave our FO a free pass during these recent 5 years that we didn't make the playoffs? HELL NO! We pay good money for tickets to the games and these guys make MILLIONS of dollars! It's the job of the FO to stay competitive at all times.

[Mel_13]

The lakers reloaded quickly. I don't care if its through trades or free agency a good front office will use all the necessary tools to get the players and trades and free agency are great ways to reload a team. The spurs have a bad track record getting players through trades and free agency.

Well if four years is quickly, then OK. Following the Shaq trade the Lakers went:

04-05 34-48 (Lottery, selected Bynum)
05-06 45-37 (1st round exit)
06-07 42-40 (1st round exit)

Do you remember the summer of 2007 and Kobe going on every talk show in the country criticizing the Laker FO and demanding to be traded? They only returned to the top of the NBA after acquiring Fisher and Gasol without having to give up any talent in return.

The Spurs have won 50 games (or the '99 equivalent) for 12 straight years.

You should at least give them the same timeframe to rebuild from this disastrous 54 win season that you appear to give the Lakers such credit for.

[Trimble87]

Well the fact of the matter is that they DID get Gasol. San Antonio hasn't done anything as far as acquiring top level talent in the last 7 years. I agree that you should enjoy the team you have, but giving the FO a free pass is a joke. Do you think we gave our FO a free pass during these recent 5 years that we didn't make the playoffs? HELL NO! We pay good money for tickets to the games and these guys make MILLIONS of dollars! It's the job of the FO to stay competitive at all times.

The lakers front office was smart enough to know A. How to answer a phone and B. how to say "OMG YES PLEASE!" They were doing nothing to "keep comptetitive" until then. They were headed for another mid 40 win season and Kobe Bryant demanding another trade.

We dont give our FO a pass, but that same FO that everyone is dogging also picked up Roger Mason Jr and Drew Gooden. Two of the most influential pick ups of any team this year.

They missed some opportunities in the draft, but you know what so did 90% of the other teams. It isnt a science and we cant get it right every time.

[poop]

The front office sucks. No significant trades for an all star or even borderline star, no free agent difference makers. You hand Robinson and Duncan to any other front office to build around and they would win.

The Lakers won 3 titles during Robinson and Duncans prime years together. The spurs are a pitiful front office getting handed Robinson and Duncan thru lottery luck and still getting outdone by the Lakers during Robinson and Duncans prime years together.


this is a good point.

also they made incredibly good picks with Parker and Ginobili but after that, their decisions have been overwhelmingly stupid. giving lots promising young guys away for nothing or flat out waiving them, because they arent grizzled 35 yr old veterans :rolleyes

[Mel_13]

Well the fact of the matter is that they DID get Gasol. San Antonio hasn't done anything as far as acquiring top level talent in the last 7 years. I agree that you should enjoy the team you have, but giving the FO a free pass is a joke. Do you think we gave our FO a free pass during these recent 5 years that we didn't make the playoffs? HELL NO! We pay good money for tickets to the games and these guys make MILLIONS of dollars! It's the job of the FO to stay competitive at all times.

Help me out here. You didn't give your front office a free pass during the 4 years your team missed the playoffs. Before that your team made the playoffs for 21 straight years. If I follow you, 21 straight years met your standard of competitiveness.

Now the Spurs have made the playoffs in 19 of the last 20 years, with only one season with less than 47 wins or its '99 equivalent. Please tell me how the Spurs FO have failed to, in your words, "do the job of the FO to stay competitive at all times"?

[pjjrfan]

There can only be one champion every year, so for the last 10 years the Spurs, Lakers, Detroit, Miami and Boston can lay claim to being the lone survivor and the Spurs have done it 4 times without the benefit of high draft picks, perennial losers who have a wealth of talent haven't done squat, the draft has not produced a true blue chip player except for the 2003 trio of James, Wade and Carmelo and Paul and Williams in 2005. No other rookies have made a drastic change on any team. I think the track record is good and for the fact that when Tim retires this team regardless of how well Tony is playing will become just another good team that will contend but won't win anything. I can't argue with the Spurs current or past philosphy because they have those 4 titles. While 29 other teams don't.

[Trimble87]

We have a lot of work to do this off season, and I mean a lot. But the fact is this is the first year since 99 that we arent serious contendors for the title, and thats only because of injuries (Duncan and Ginobili). Even 100% healthy the lakers would have been tough, but it would have been competitive. We wont be competitive with this same team next year imo, but if not for injuries we would be right where we want to be in this years playoffs.

There must be a lot of tired people on this board, what with all the hopping on and off the bandwagon.

[ProjectGSX]

Drafting late is a crap shoot, at best. Its very easy to look in the rear view mirror 2 or 3 years later and say 'hey, should have picked that other guy instead'. I think the real issue here is that the Spurs FO got an overblown reputation for picking Tony and Manu with late draft picks. It was good scouting, sure, but it was also a bit of luck that no one else picked them.

[spurspokesman]

I agree with some points you make. It sickens me when people talk about tim tony and manu winning rings.( Though they are the prime reason) The last time I checked it's five players on the court at A time. And in the winning years the role players were significantly better than those playing now.( Claxton. S jax antonio daniels,steve smith/Kerr rose barry horry just to name A few. I remember beind down to dallas 14 going into the fourth quarter when stephen jackson and steve kerr shot us back in. ( A time when the big three really couldn't get going.) If dallas had won that game who knows. But its the role players who often don't get the glory that make or break A team and our role players this year have let us down. This can be the reason for the tims decline. You can only put so much on A person and tim tony and manu cant do it alone. We won rings when we had real good role players. As much as the spurs have my loyalty I gotta face reality. They need help.

[BadOne]

I agree with some points you make. It sickens me when people talk about tim tony and manu winning rings.( Though they are the prime reason) The last time I checked it's five players on the court at A time. And in the winning years the role players were significantly better than those playing now.( Claxton. S jax antonio daniels,steve smith/Kerr rose barry horry just to name A few. I remember beind down to dallas 14 going into the fourth quarter when stephen jackson and steve kerr shot us back in. ( A time when the big three really couldn't get going.) If dallas had won that game who knows. But its the role players who often don't get the glory that make or break A team and our role players this year have let us down. This can be the reason for the tims decline. You can only put so much on A person and tim tony and manu cant do it alone. We won rings when we had real good role players. As much as the spurs have my loyalty I gotta face reality. They need help.

This, my friends was my ultimate point here. It's always gonna be :flag: till the day I die. But the team must evolve with the rest of the league. The big 3 will always be untouchable in my eyes and yes, Mason and Gooden were great pick ups, but their other players have become obsolete.


ALSO...


Sorry folkz, didn't mean to cause a ruckus...the post isn't saying that the FO doesn't find talent. There is no arguement there. The problem is them not utilizing or molding it.
I still say it loud and proud peeps! GO SPURS GO.
I just can't help but wonder what a difference it'd be right now if our starting team was this:

PG: G. Hill
SG: R. Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: T. Ariza
PF: T. Duncan
C: D. Lee or Carl Landry

My bad on that. I totally meant Tony Parker as the starter. not George Hill. :bang

Before my coffee intake for the morning. Forgive me.

[SenorSpur]

Not to overlook the current playoffs or anything like that, the Spurs are as resilient now as they've ever been before. There breakdown this season and post season is not at all at the fault of their players. not when you look at the bigger picture.

With an aging unit and injury plagued season, these San Antonio Spurs may look like the least talented group of Spurs we’ve seen since before Tim Duncan was drafted. What of, then, the supporting cast. How can the bench and role players be summarized? Age alone cannot be to blame for their inconsistencies, can it?
Oh, but HELL YES!

If it were simply a matter of their offense being absent, then the same ol’ “too old” argument would not be an adequate explanation. Sometimes, the ball just won’t go in the hole. This is, however, not the case since both their offense and defense have significantly plunged this season. The losses last season and this season alike cannot be blamed on shoddy officiating alone. With the exception of a hobbled Manu Ginobili, the team’s stars were playing as their usual selves. It was their supporting cast that was clearly out matched against the Lakers, and in some games the Hornets. ]
I harped on this fact after the conclusion of last year's WCF. The Ginobili injury was a convenient excuse for many, but it masked the truly relevant issue - their supporting cast is simply overmatched from a skills, age and athleticism perspective. There's no question that Ginobili's injury and absence are HUGE. His greatness and contributions cannot be replaced. However, the fact that he is absent exposes this team for what they really are: OLD, SLOW and TALENT POOR. It's a sobering realization, but one that many Spurs fans, and the FO, need to realize.

There is no question that in their youth and early 30’s, the likes of a Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto, Jauque Vaughn Robert Horry and a Kurt Thomas were formidable players as teammates. The fact, however, is that all of these players are beyond their prime time years. Well beyond. Half of these guys are knocking on the door to 40. Bowen used to be the prime Kobe stopper in 03, even in 04, however he was barely in his early 30’s then. There is no disputing that for men at their ages, they are athletic, finely tuned hard working basketball players. Their basketball intelligence alone is superior to many. But they are up against, younger, faster, and sometimes more stronger players.
That is the key right there. We see evidence of this several times during the past two regular seasons, against teams like Philly, Orlando, OKC and Portland, who basically destroy the Spurs with a devastating blend of quickness, rebounding and athleticism. We saw it again in last year's playoffs versus the Hornets and Fakers. The Spurs have devolved into a team that routinely gets outquicked, outhustled and outrebounded by younger, quicker, healthier teams. Case in point: The Celtics and the Mavs ARE and older teams. However, they're not as old as the Spurs. The Spurs have gone too far on the other side of the bracket and have become a team that has a 3 bonafide superstar players, but one with a poor supporting cast.

So why is it that a perennial team whose standard of winning is almost always expected, never evolves? Unfortunately the one reason that the Spurs have been so great for the past decade, is the same reason they are declining…the front office. As General Manager, R.C. Buford has brought in some of the best role players this team has known to help out the big 3, and earlier on, the twin towers. The off season addition of Roger Mason Jr. is clearly a gamble he won. There have been many other role players in this teams past that have made the difference during their time in S.A. When you look at, however, what Buford has given to obtain these role players, one can’t help but wonder if it was worth it all. Yes the Spurs have 4 championships. Heck, had it not been for bad calls made down the stretch, they might have had 7 by now. Yet it is reckless in my opinion to only build a team around the veteran free-agent market, and not the draft.
Personally, I don't think "all eggs should be in a single basket". I think you need both. Solid veteran players, that still have some years of remaining shelf-life, can provide the necessary bench contributions needed to win championships. We've seen that. The operative words there are remaining shelf-life", rather acquiring them when they are past their prime. Additionally, there is value in having 2-3 younger players that can provide the much-needed, end-of-the-bench energy and productivity to offset the tired, veteran legs. In that way, you are building your next round of core contributors, which can help mitigate the type of sudden dropoff that we are apparently seeing now, in addition to helping extend the championship window.

With the exception of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, the Spurs have made nothing of their prospects from their drafts within this past decade since they drafted Duncan in 97. Why is it, that Buford and Pop only seek those who are seasoned [some over-seasoned] in their careers? They freely trade away invaluable picks every season of what could eventually become well proven leaders and all stars during the long run. And for what? 2-3 years MAX of consistent contributions as opposed to 1-2 years of serious molding and up to 10 years of consistent contributions.
Pop and RC continue to live and reap the benefits (and kudos) of the Manu and Tony drafts - and rightfully so. However that was 10 years ago. That's a long time without having infused at least one single contributor from a previous draft. I'm not counting Ian, because he's been injured and still a question mark. Beno's and Scola also don't count because both are both gone, so it was as though they were never here.

Could it be that Pop has grown too impatient with molding players and chooses to win now? Any and all true contingency plans in draft picks this team has had in the past 10 years, might have been traded if not given away to other teams. Other draft picks were spent on foreign players who were likely under contract with their respective overseas teams. Some of which may never play in an NBA game despite being drafted.
A good GM keeps one eye on the present, the other on the future. Pop the coach, certainly wants to win now. It's unclear what Pop the GM wishes to do. Perhaps we're seeing one of the disadvantage of having one individual with those dual roles.

As we look back, you’ve gotta wonder what could’ve been had it not been for the whole Jason Kidd free agent fiasco in 03-04. Even now, the Spurs 08 draft pick, George Hill, sees very limited playing time. [Although he’s seen a lot more than expected thanks to earlier injuries to Parker and Ginobili] Patience is truly a virtue, but it’s one we all know Pop has very little of. So what’s Buford’s excuse?
My personal rant on the Jason Kidd flirtation, and the subsequent passing over of Josh Howard, are well-documented. The effects and end result of that combined decision, in my opinion, is unquestionably the biggest blunder of the the Pop/RC era. I will give the FO credit for taking some small steps in trying to get younger over this past offseason. However, it's painfully apparent that they've not done enough. Some hard decisions will need to be made this offseason.

[spurspokesman]

:toast Cheers +1

[rascal]

There can only be one champion every year, so for the last 10 years the Spurs, Lakers, Detroit, Miami and Boston can lay claim to being the lone survivor and the Spurs have done it 4 times without the benefit of high draft picks, perennial losers who have a wealth of talent haven't done squat, the draft has not produced a true blue chip player except for the 2003 trio of James, Wade and Carmelo and Paul and Williams in 2005. No other rookies have made a drastic change on any team. I think the track record is good and for the fact that when Tim retires this team regardless of how well Tony is playing will become just another good team that will contend but won't win anything. I can't argue with the Spurs current or past philosphy because they have those 4 titles. While 29 other teams don't.


Why do you say the spurs win without the benefit of high draft picks. Why do you fail to include Robinson and Duncan as high draft picks?

[Spursmania]

hindsight is 20/20.

[Kori Ellis]

Sorry folkz, didn't mean to cause a ruckus...the post isn't saying that the FO doesn't find talent. There is no arguement there. The problem is them not utilizing or molding it.
I still say it loud and proud peeps! GO SPURS GO.
I just can't help but wonder what a difference it'd be right now if our starting team was this:

PG: G. Hill
SG: R. Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: T. Ariza
PF: T. Duncan
C: D. Lee or Carl Landry

Why would you want Hill starting over Parker?
:wtf
(never mind, I just saw your later post)

[EricB]

Parker was drafted in 2001. It is now 2009. You realize that the person most credited with the drafting of Tony does not even work for the Spurs anymore.


RC Buford works somewhere else?

[Johnny RIngo]

I agree that the FO has been inept the past few years(standing pat after '07/letting Scola go). Buford and Pop must have been out of their minds when they thought they could make another playoff run with garbage like Bonner, Udoka, Vaughn, Finley, and Oberto on the team.

[Johnny RIngo]

The F.O. sucks. Still can't believe they'd thought the team would have a shot at a championship with the crap that's cluttering the Spurs bench.

[Marcus Bryant]

What's missing from this analysis is any mention of the fact that the Spurs are generally reluctant to pay the Luxury Tax and prefer to receive the payments instead. That kind of puts a crimp in the wheeling and dealing, no matter how much the armchair GMs want to pretend otherwise. Of course, it also forces bad basketball deals such as the Rose and Scola trades which were salary dumps. If you want to find fault in the FO, start with ownership.

How many deals have the Spurs had set up in which someone was willing to gift them talent for nothing?

And tlong, shut the fuck up. The Spurs aren't owned by one of the wealthiest men on Earth who regards his sports franchises as hobbies he's willing to blow $ on.

[HarlemHeat37]

This front office HAS fucked up many times..they have a big task this off-season, and we'll see how they respond..

most of you are idiots though..you guys don't realize how tough it is to succeed in the NBA..the Spurs have the NBA all-time record for most consecutive 50 win seasons in a row..4 titles during that time span..do you guys realize how tough that is? do you realize how tough it is to continue that kind of success without having ANY good draft picks?..

Rascal is a Lakers fan, so ignore him..

David Robinson was washed up in 2001 and 2002..so why would it be surprising that a Spurs team with 1 superstar in Duncan, couldn't beat a Lakers team with 2 superstars and a similar supporting cast? Just because you drop the name David Robinson, it doesn't mean it's the same guy from the 90's..

The Lakers front office has rarely had to do too much..they've benefited heavily from the location and attraction of Los Angeles..from Kareem to Kobe..

how did the Lakers get Gasol? they got him from MISSING the playoffs, being eliminated early, and from Shaq signing due to location of the city..they traded Shaq and got Caron Butler..they traded Butler for Kwame Brown's big contract..they traded Brown, a prospect, and expirings for Pau Gasol..the Lakers paid their dues by missing the playoffs, and they benefited from their location, as usual..

where was the love for the Lakers front office when Kobe was asking for a trade? when they missed the playoffs in 2005? sorry, but the Lakers in 2002-2003 were in the same position that we are now..

the Celtics had to have multiple years of being horrible so they could stock up on prospects and picks, and they traded it for KG and Ray Allen..before last year, they were mediocre for a long time..

the Blazers have now just finally built a good team, after many years of mediocrity..

every front office is criticized..this team had an excuse last year with Manu, even if a lot of us don't believe it would have made a difference..they don't have an excuse for being eliminated in the 1st round this year, so we'll see how they respond..if we have a mediocre off-season, then I'll join all of you..

[Marcus Bryant]

Anyways, the Spurs struck gold early with international picks necessitated by the fact that they were working with low 1st and 2nd round picks. The rest of the league caught up with them in that department, based partly on the success the Spurs had with Ginobili and Parker (recall Auerbach or whoever laughing at the notion of drafting a French point guard).

Further, Duncan wanted them to chase Kidd in '03. Considering that he was also a free agent then, the Spurs did what they had to do.

Signing Scola when he was available would have cost the Spurs something like $13 mil in the 2007-08 season, between his salary, Butler's salary, the Lux Tax on both of their salaries, and Lux Tax distributions foregone. That's why we saw that dumb trade go down.

Then, of course, we have the fact that Pop basically wants experienced players on his team who can be counted on to perform. Yes, that can certainly create a situation in which you are stuck with an over the hill supporting cast and not much young talent in the wings waiting to take over. And then we had them put in the spot of having to replace David Robinson when he retired. As if that was easy. And, of course, people need to realize that high profile free agents may not find playing in the shadow of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili that appealing in small market San Antonio.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs gave up 3 picks due to them giving Duncan what he wanted ('03 with the Kidd chase and the two 1st rounders in the Rose trade - TD wanted him re-signed in 2002 & considering he was a free agent the following year, the Spurs did it. Then they dealt his contract when they found a taker and TD wasn't going to be a free agent soon). Ultimately, the Beno pick was a bust due to Pop's treatment of Beno and Beno's own douchebaggery. But he's still in the league. I don't know if that's necessarily a failure on the part of the GM. Plus the Spurs had to deal him when his value was at its absolute lowest.

I think the trouble fans have is that they look back over the FO's history without any context and through the lens of simply what would create the largest collection of raw talent. Restrictions on payroll set in place by ownership and demands of the coach seem to be forgotten. If you want to find someone to criticize, start with the ownership. Then move on to Pop and criticize him for the formula that has brought home 4 Larry O'Briens.

[rascal]

The Spurs gave up 3 picks due to them giving Duncan what he wanted ('03 with the Kidd chase and the two 1st rounders in the Rose trade - TD wanted him re-signed in 2002 & considering he was a free agent the following year, the Spurs did it. Then they dealt his contract when they found a taker and TD wasn't going to be a free agent soon). Ultimately, the Beno pick was a bust due to Pop's treatment of Beno and Beno's own douchebaggery. But he's still in the league. I don't know if that's necessarily a failure on the part of the GM. Plus the Spurs had to deal him when his value was at its absolute lowest.

I think the trouble fans have is that they look back over the FO's history without any context and through the lens of simply what would create the largest collection of raw talent. Restrictions on payroll set in place by ownership and demands of the coach seem to be forgotten. If you want to find someone to criticize, start with the ownership. Then move on to Pop and criticize him for the formula that has brought home 4 Larry O'Briens.

No doubt ownership is a problem. if they are too cheap to acquire young talent they need to step aside and get some owners in who have the money and are willing to pay to get the necessary talent.

The window has closed with assembling a team of over the hill players that will be successful enough to win another title for the spurs anymore.

[BadOne]

Sometimes I wonder if they could scrap the whole 2010 plans and use the money they've saved so far to make an offer to Carlos Boozer this offseason. Maybe work out a sign and trade deal with Toronto to get Shawn Marion too.

[Ocotillo]

I try (unsuccessfully) to restrain myself from getting into personnel and internet GMing until the Spurs are done with the playoffs but I am going to jump in here.

The Spurs by and large in the last decade have tried to use international leagues for development of younger players and signed free agent vets to fill out their roster. By having a roster of aging vets rather than having a mix of young'uns and vets, it is more difficult to make trades as well. George Hill is an exception this season.

Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Jacque Vaughn, Fab Oberto and Kurt Thomas are not going to fetch you much in the trade market. Now if you had put Hairston, Gist, Hill and an injured Mahinmi on the roster, they may bust and have zero trade value but if they show improvement and the ability to play in the league, all of a sudden, you have an asset for a trade if you deem one of the younger players is not a good fit for your team. Or at best, you have a future player developing within the system that will be a solid role player or maybe even starter down the road.

Bonner might be tradeable but his stock (never that high) is dropping and I hope the Spurs don't get caught the way they were with Beno and selling while he was a penny stock.

It is time to see what the "furiners" can offer to the team. If possible, in addition to Gist and Mahinmi in training camp, we need to do what it takes to get Javtokas and Sankidze in for a look. Splitter needs to feel some serious love in 2010 when he can opt out of Tau's deal.

As much as Roger Mason Jr. has done for the team, him and Bonner (plus prospects or picks) are our most tradeable assets. The front office has to make a hard choice about whether he is going to develop into a post-season performer. Based on the 4 games we have seen of him thus far, you have to trade him if the right deal comes along.

I'm at work, so I am just rambling and once the off-seaons starts, will put together a better post regarding my thoughts on what we should or should not do.

[Yuixafun]

Wow we could have had Monta Ellis instead of Ian.

[jdev82]

everyone who agrees with me repost this:

SPURS TO THE DEATH

[K-State Spur]

Sorry folkz, didn't mean to cause a ruckus...the post isn't saying that the FO doesn't find talent. There is no arguement there. The problem is them not utilizing or molding it.
I still say it loud and proud peeps! GO SPURS GO.
I just can't help but wonder what a difference it'd be right now if our starting team was this:

PG: G. Hill
SG: R. Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: T. Ariza
PF: T. Duncan
C: D. Lee or Carl Landry

Unless Duncan were 100% and Pop was willing to play him 40+ minutes/night, that line-up would have been battling Utah & Phx for the 8 seed.

[K-State Spur]

Well the fact of the matter is that they DID get Gasol. San Antonio hasn't done anything as far as acquiring top level talent in the last 7 years.

When you have 3 stars, you don't try to keep acquiring top level talent. There's only one ball + a salary cap (the last time I checked).

They have done a good job of surrounding those 3 guys with players who fill a role both on the court and in the clubhouse...some years better than others obviously.

[Duncan2177]

The lakers reloaded quickly. I don't care if its through trades or free agency a good front office will use all the necessary tools to get the players and trades and free agency are great ways to reload a team. The spurs have a bad track record getting players through trades and free agency.

:tu

[BadOne]

Spurs to the death

[BadOne]

Unless Duncan were 100% and Pop was willing to play him 40+ minutes/night, that line-up would have been battling Utah & Phx for the 8 seed.

I did make a correction to the G. Hill error. I did intend to have T. Parker as the starting PG. While you're entitled to your opinion, and I respect it...I'm really just curious here...do you actually believe that T. Ariza would've been a worse option than Udoka once Bowen hit the bench? Or that Landry a worse center than Bonner?

Thanks for the reply man. :toast

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why is it everyone continues to want to blame R.C. for everything?

You all act like Pop and Holt have nothing to do with the front office failures over the past several years...

[iilluzioN]

2001
28. Tony Parker – SUPERSTAR
56. Robertas Javtokas – Never signed. Still overseas…
58. Bryan Bracey - Waived


fixed...



and the answer to all your questions.... is we should build around Tony now.... instead of Timmy

[024]

this will all be solved when gist returns.

[ploto]

RC always gets more credit for things than he deserves but likewise also more blame for some things, as well. Holt pulls more strings than people realize when it comes to mandating trades to save money.

[BadOne]

I agree that Pop has alot of say about these things, but with Buford being the G.M. the responsibility is his for roster moves. I do however also agree that Peter Holt deserves a share of blame as well. When you have an owner that doesn't want to even risk coming close to the salary cap if it cuold help his team win, that does hurt. I suppose though, that the "small market" in an uncertain economy could affect Mr. Holt's decisions.

[Mel_13]

I agree that Pop has alot of say about these things, but with Buford being the G.M. the responsibility is his for roster moves. I do however also agree that Peter Holt deserves a share of blame as well. When you have an owner that doesn't want to even risk coming close to the salary cap if it cuold help his team win, that does hurt. I suppose though, that the "small market" in an uncertain economy could affect Mr. Holt's decisions.

This statement is not true. The Spurs have exceeded the salary cap by at least $10M for the last 4 seasons. They have tried to avoid the punitive luxury tax, as nearly every team in the NBA has. In the last 4 seasons, the Spurs exceeded the luxury tax in 05-06 and 06-07, and spent nearly every dollar up to the lux tax line in 07-08 and 08-09.

Number of luxury taxpaying teams:
05-06: 6 out of 30(Spurs paid)
06-07: 5 out of 30(Spurs paid)
07-08: 8 out of 30(Spurs narrowly averted)
08-09: 8/9 out of 30(Spurs narrowly averted)

Thru the first three years of the lux tax, 17 teams have never paid the tax even once, the Spurs have paid it twice.

You can make all the arguments you like about how the Spurs have decided to allocate their resources, but statements like yours above are completely unsupported by the facts.

[ploto]

I agree that Pop has alot of say about these things, but with Buford being the G.M. the responsibility is his for roster moves.

IIRC: Pop was GM when Tony and Manu were drafted.

[BadOne]

IIRC: Pop was GM when Tony and Manu were drafted.










There are no complaints about Tony and Manu. Kudos to Pop on those 2. We still reap those benefits. :toast