What has cost us the most? Manu's injury or Pop's coaching?

[lefty]

Although we are missing Manu big time, that wouldn't have prevented Pop from giving too many minutes to Finley and Bonner, and benching Hill most of the time

[TheProfessor]

Manu's injury. A healthy Manu changes everything.

[itzsoweezee]

even when manu came back popovich was coaching batshit crazy

manu's injury didn't require giving boner a ton of minutes in the most important quarter of the season

[jack sommerset]

Actually it's Duncans age. But out of the two....Pop.

[clambake]

manu.

[VaSpursFan]

combination of both.

[sook]

manu

[ehz33satx]

Pop's stubbornness. Yes it brought us 4 NBA Championships, but it cost us also.

[TampaDude]

Manu...without him, TP gets gassed by the 4th quarter...he's got nothing left. A healthy Manu would have this series the other way around right now, with the Spurs headed back to SA to close it out, 4-1.

[Chomag]

Pop, we should still be able to win in the first round without Manu. Having Manu would of course give us an edge above any top team in the NBA, but to say we need Manu to beat every team even the bottom dwellers(which we saw all season) is crazy.

This team is underachieving because of Pop's very questionable coaching this season.
Pop has been a very good coach if not the best. However this year be it his old age, or his stubborn ego. Pop has lost touch with coaching the Spurs.

[Indazone]

Down 3-1 I'm betting Pop pulls out all the stops and will play Gooden and Hill a lot more minutes. He's got nothing to lose.

But in terms of winning or losing, I'm taking Pop as the reason. Manu would have added offensive firepower but looking at that stat line last night, you needed a lot more points spread around. In fact, I would be playing Oberto over Bonner because Oberto is a proven and battle tested playoff veteran. Gooden can back up Duncan and play some minutes at PF and Duncan can shift to center. Still I would go with a lot more size down low.

[clambake]

why isn't "kori and timvp going to mavs home games" in the poll?

[ElNono]

The real question is, could have we competed better in this series without Manu? And to me the answer is a resounding yes. I think having Manu around would have masked some of the current deficiencies, like Mason not being able to play point, Bonner being a complete waste, etc. We would have won more games and everything mostly gets swept under the rug when you win. Not having Manu, however, magnifies all these personnel problems. When all is said and done, it might be a blessing in disguise. I don't like to lose any more than anybody else, but we were not winning a championship without Manu anyways, so might aswell get these chokers exposed.

[Thomas82]

down 3-1 i'm betting pop pulls out all the stops and will play gooden and hill a lot more minutes. He's got nothing to lose.

But in terms of winning or losing, i'm taking pop as the reason. Manu would have added offensive firepower but looking at that stat line last night, you needed a lot more points spread around. In fact, i would be playing oberto over bonner because oberto is a proven and battle tested playoff veteran. Gooden can back up duncan and play some minutes at pf and duncan can shift to center. Still i would go with a lot more size down low.


the real question is, could have we competed better in this series without manu? And to me the answer is a resounding yes. I think having manu around would have masked some of the current deficiencies, like mason not being able to play point, bonner being a complete waste, etc. We would have won more games and everything mostly gets swept under the rug when you win. Not having manu, however, magnifies all these personnel problems. When all is said and done, it might be a blessing in disguise. I don't like to lose any more than anybody else, but we were not winning a championship without manu anyways, so might aswell get these chokers exposed.


+1

[braeden0613]

I think Manu's injury is the main reason Pop has fallen off the deep end as of late.

[Rapper]

The half healthy Timmy

[E20]

If you notice Manu on the bench he really wants to play. It looks like it's just killing him just sitting there.

Why not fuckign play him? Fuck it.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Both.

Awful coaching and an untimely injury to a player that didn't do anything to avoid it.

[SpursDynasty]

It's not Manu's injury, and it's not Pop's coaching. Injuries are a part of the game. Pop knows what he's doing.

Oh, and last time I checked, this series was best of 7, not best of 5. The first round has been that way since 2003. You have to win 4 games to win a series, so why anyone is already declaring Dallas a winner is beyond me.

IF the Spurs lose this series (which they won't), it will be because of Game 3. The Spurs have competed very well in this series. Game 1 and Game 4 could have very well been W's for the Spurs, we just missed a couple of key shots. Not much you can do about it. This series could be 3-1 Spurs right now. But like 2006, we'll just have to do an uphill climb here. The series isn't over. If we are able to stretch the series out to 7 games, 2 of the remaining 3 games are at home. Dallas hasn't necessarily done anything impressive. Sure, they blew us out by 21, but we blew them out by 21. So we're even there. The other 2 games, Dallas just got some bounces and calls to go their way, end of story.

We've taken Dirk and Terry out of the series. JJ Barea has had his 5 minutes of fame as well as Brandon Bass. The Spurs know they need to concentrate on Josh Howard, but don't count on Howard to play consistent in the remaining games of the series.

The series isn't over last time I checked, not sure about everybody else.

[Quiet Strength]

Manu being injured is obviously a big loss for the spurs and timmy being injured hurts the team also but I have to go with pop's coaching. He doesn't seem to know what to do anymore.. Not trusting in hill in this series against dallas and having mason play backup pg has been idiotic from pop.

[DAF86]

Manu would have made up for Pop's coaching.

[SA210]

The real question is, could have we competed better in this series without Manu? And to me the answer is a resounding yes. I think having Manu around would have masked some of the current deficiencies, like Mason not being able to play point, Bonner being a complete waste, etc. We would have won more games and everything mostly gets swept under the rug when you win. Not having Manu, however, magnifies all these personnel problems. When all is said and done, it might be a blessing in disguise. I don't like to lose any more than anybody else, but we were not winning a championship without Manu anyways, so might aswell get these chokers exposed.

:tu I agree.

We may have lost to the Lakers or someone else down the road beacause we don't have Manu, but the question is who hurt us most? Since we haven't gone into a round that we would really NEED Manu to win it, I blame POP 150%.

It's Pop because what hurt us the most so far is that POP has lost his damn mind and sold out his own damn beliefs. This is a very winnable series against the Mavs without Manu, Manu is VERY important to this team, but with Pop's stupid decisions and rotaions, we have just about lost this series.

:bang:pop:

[pogo1231]

The Celtics seem to have other players pick up the slack after Garnett went down. For some reason, no one on the Spurs is able to make a basket. There is no way we deserve to win if only 2 players are responsible for the majority of the scoring.

[DeltaCharlie1]

I picked pop screwed up because there have been plenty of games with and without Manu that were well within our reach and we failed to execute for the win. Another part of the problem this year and just yesturday was Ime fuckin up on the rotation and fouling Jason Kidd on the three point line, didnt really go for the block but bulldozed him then acted like it was a good play on his part. That guy Jacq Vaghn, Finley need to go next year and I hope Pop and and his staff are looking at this years draft for at least one guy that can contribute for us next year.

[BUMP]

"we just suck" isn't an option?

[HarlemHeat37]

The Celtics have picked up the slack? they're struggling against an average Bulls team in this series..

Manu would clearly make a huge difference..our system is entirely based on our big 3..Manu would be the primary ballhandler for the 2nd unit, and he showed a lot of promise playing a 2-man game with Gooden..

Manu is also our only guy on D that can play the passing lanes at a high level, leading to fast break poins..

Our record with Manu in the lineup speaks for itself..

[kace]

this forum is becoming crazy about Pop. what's hurting us the most: Pop coaching or manu's injury ? really.

Having one of our big 3 out is a HUGE disadvantage. I think it's "better" to miss manu rather than Tim or Tony though. but it's still a big hole that left Manu. and no one seem able to just fill it up a little bit.

The bigger mistake of Pop as a coach and a GM isn't his rotations anyway. It's the supporting cast he put aroung the big 3 that is failing at the biggest stage.

[NFGIII]

Manu's injury - this is a no brainer from my viewpoint. With Manu healthy then Pop's coaching decisions whould change, too. Those Mavs runs we've been privy too most likely get cut short and we probably win game 1. Manu has a tendency to change the game and put pressure on the opposing team IIRC. Though Pop would have still put Hill in the doghouse and played Finley and Bonner way too much anyway.

But overall I think with a healthy Manu things wouldn't be so gloom and doom around here right now.

[rascal]

Manu...without him, TP gets gassed by the 4th quarter...he's got nothing left. A healthy Manu would have this series the other way around right now, with the Spurs headed back to SA to close it out, 4-1.

No way. Manu has not been that good this year even when he was playing.

[DAF86]

No way. Manu has not been that good this year even when he was playing.

Weren't you the one that wanted to trade Manu for expiring contracts? I guess you know by now how important Manu's to this team.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

How can you say Manu hasn't been very good this year even when he has been playing? He's actually been really, really good when he's played. San Antonio is 32-12 with Manu and 22-16 without him. He averaged 15.5 points 4.5 rebounds and 3.6 assists per game in only 26.8 minutes. Per 40, that's 23.1, 6.7, and 5.3. If you like PER, his was 22.93. Compare that to Parker's 23.47, and Parker had a career year.

If Manu hadn't played the games he did, the Spurs may not even have made the playoffs, so I don't see how Pop's coaching has had anywhere near the impact as Manu's injury.

[DMX7]

Its manu, not even close.

[SA210]

No way. Manu has not been that good this year even when he was playing.


:lol What a joke

[Duncan2177]

It's Pops coaching and Manu being hurt.

[Bukefal]

manu of course, although i think even with manu, it would not be very different than it is now, so we should not blame everything on his injury. Pop is just pop, doing his thing he knows and does best. POP is the best we have!!!

[EVAY]

Manu's injury hurt us the most because he is the 4th quarter man. He is our best clutch player, and he is the guy who can force the other team to foul him and then actually MAKE the free throws that he gets from them. He is the guy who has the hustlein the final minutes of any game.

Having said all that...Pop has killed us in the absence of Manu. BTW, his military background is Air force, not Army. But regardless, his stubborn usage of his personnel in the face of empirical evidence that his plan is not working is pure arrogance. I don't think that's necessarily a function of military training. I think it is personality. Remember, he was unimpressed with Parker at first, and the assistant coaches had to convince him to take another look at Parker. Remember that Pop loved the two Serbs...Nesterovich and Beno...remember that Pop didn't want to make some of the offensive changes that Carlesimo and others talked him into for all of our benefit.
Pop is a terrrific coach...but he is not infallble, and he has hurt us this season and post season.

[Horse]

You can't replace what a healthy Manu gives you or Timmy for that matter. But after yesterdays game I believe Pop is throwing in the towel.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Pop being so damn hardheaded. Too many coaches and players have figured him and his style out and Pop won't change. I'm hoping the game isn't passing him by but, even Rick Carlisle is out coaching him. It's bad enough when Phil Jackson out coaches him but, Rick Carlisle???

Trading for LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Howard and Durant to go with Tim & Tony will solve all our woes.

[timvp]

I don't know why Manu Fan has to continuously point out "See, look how important Manu is!" as if the vast majority of Spurs fans don't realize how important a healthy Manu is to the Spurs. Obviously the Spurs would be much better off with Manu. You take away any individual out of the Big Three and the Spurs would either be in this hole or would have been swept.

With the Big Three intact, the Spurs would probably beat Dallas. But not for sure. If Pop had Vaughn as the backup point guard, Bowen and Hill at the end of the bench and Mason buried behind Finley, the Spurs would likely still lose to the Mavs. Even with Manu, the Mavs are a horrible matchup and Pop would likely be riding the wrong horses into the playoffs.

[ElNono]

There's no reason that you could say we had no chance in this series with Manu out. You could argue the series would be a breeze if Manu would be playing, but you can't say this was not a winnable series, even without Manu. It's been a bunch of boneheaded decisions that got us in the hole we are, and if we keep the course our season will be done real soon now. That one is on Pop.

[DAF86]

I don't know why Manu Fan has to continuously point out "See, look how important Manu is!" as if the vast majority of Spurs fans don't realize how important a healthy Manu is to the Spurs. Obviously the Spurs would be much better off with Manu. You take away any individual out of the Big Three and the Spurs would either be in this hole or would have been swept.

With the Big Three intact, the Spurs would probably beat Dallas. But not for sure. If Pop had Vaughn as the backup point guard, Bowen and Hill at the end of the bench and Mason buried behind Finley, the Spurs would likely still lose to the Mavs. Even with Manu, the Mavs are a horrible matchup and Pop would likely be riding the wrong horses into the playoffs.

I wasn't pointing that out to Spurs fans, I was pointing that out to rascal, 'cause he wanted to trade him for expiring contracts.

[ElNono]

With the Big Three intact, the Spurs would probably beat Dallas. But not for sure. If Pop had Vaughn as the backup point guard, Bowen and Hill at the end of the bench and Mason buried behind Finley, the Spurs would likely still lose to the Mavs. Even with Manu, the Mavs are a horrible matchup and Pop would likely be riding the wrong horses into the playoffs.

I disagree on this point. We have had a good handle on Terry and Dirk. You could argue Manu can play JHo a lot better than Fin, and also provide the scoring. There's also no secret that Manu not only scores, but gets other people involved. I think if Manu is playing, this series isn't close. Maybe he couldn't have done anything on Game 3, but that's about it.
Then again, as you mentioned, there has been poor choices as far as who's playing and where they're playing. These are not new decisions, and we've been bitching about it well before the playoffs started.

[TampaDude]

"we just suck" isn't an option?

Teams that blow a 2-0 lead and get backdoor swept in the Finals suck.

Teams that get bounced by the 8th seed in the first round suck.

The Spurs, on the other hand, are just going through a rough patch right now.

Just so you know the difference... :lol

[portnoy1]

Pop is to blame , what he should do and why.
1- start Parker at point guard , defending Jason Kidd
2- Start Finley guard , defending Josh Howard
3 - Start Bowen at forward, defending Barea
4 - Start Duncan at forward, defending Dampier
5 - start Oberto at Center, defending Nowitzki
-----
Subs
1 - george hill to run point and chase after terry.
2 - roger mason to score from the perimeter
3 - kurt thomas to get rebounds
4 - gooden to score downlow.

The reason the spurs are getting beat on the boards is because matt bonner is trying to deny Dirk the ball and stick to him like glue. While he is doing that barea is getting to middle for layups and dampier is getting O Rbds because all bonner cares about is Dirk. With Oberto guarding Dirk the spurs will have a smarter defender on dirk, who will allow him to catch but stay in front of him and back up tim on the defensive boards. Also instead of waiting for double teams and shooting 3's, the spurs should look at the Toronto raptors offense and take notes. The Raptors have an all-star PF in Bosh ( still no comparison to duncan ) and a decent, underrated point guard in Calderon ( Yes, yes I know parker is better ). The Raptors seek to utilize the other 3 members on the court. They throw the ball down low to Barnagni here and there, and they run Jason Kapono and Anthony Parker off screens for mid-range jumpshots. Instead of waiting for Duncan or Parker to get a double Team; running plays for Finley and Mason jr. to come off screens will get them involved in the offense and make the mavs move around instead of double. This also allows parker and duncan more room to operate if the other team isn't always cheating defensively. This would help parker get more assist without working so hard or turning the ball over ( Jose calderon 8.9 ast/2.1 trns - Raptors ).


Starting Center 2008-2009 Matt bonner = 24 Min / 8.2 pts / 4.8 Rbds / Fg 49%
2007 - 2008 Fabricio Oberto = 20 Min / 4.8 pts / 5.2 Rbds / Fg 60%

the spurs are getting killed on the boards, Oberto gets more rbds in less min than bonner. Oberto Is getting layups ( Fg 60% ) and Bonner is off and on ( Fg 49% ). Bonner had only three 10+ rebound games this season, Oberto had eight 10+ rebound games in less minutes last season.

[lefty]

"we just suck" isn't an option?

That answer applies only to the Mavs when they are facing a healthy contender

[Spursox]

Pops coaching was my vote.

1. Other teams are playing great with out a main player (McGrady & Garnett)
2. No patience for developing the rooks.
3. Going with a broken Okur type center in Bonner.
4. Making the team a "Live and Die by the 3" type team.
5. No backup point guard.

[HarlemHeat37]

Are some of you watching the same playoffs as me? Boston is tied with an average Bulls team right now, how are they playing "great"?..

Houston hasn't done anything yet, so let's hold that off too..

This year's West is very weak..so even with this team's weaknesses, Manu would allow us to EASILY beat Dallas, and allow us to compete with Denver..Lakers? obviously not, but nobody else in the weak West can beat them..

Rascal is a Lakers fan, don't argue with him..

[Spursox]

Both Boston and Houston are playing without their #1 players. It's like us being 2-2 without Duncan...I would call that playing great...

But we both know that we could never pull that off with an injured Duncan.

[DAF86]

Both Boston and Houston are playing without their #1 players. It's like us being 2-2 without Duncan...I would call that playing great...

But we both know that we could never pull that off with an injured Duncan.

I can't bealive there's some people thinking that McGrady can still be the #1 player of something.

[peskypesky]

Fire Pop! Fucking dumbass fucking fuck.

[rascal]

Are some of you watching the same playoffs as me? Boston is tied with an average Bulls team right now, how are they playing "great"?..

Houston hasn't done anything yet, so let's hold that off too..

This year's West is very weak..so even with this team's weaknesses, Manu would allow us to EASILY beat Dallas, and allow us to compete with Denver..Lakers? obviously not, but nobody else in the weak West can beat them..

Rascal is a Lakers fan, don't argue with him..


For your information I dislike the lakers. Think before you make dumb statements.

Because someone thinks a team will win they automatically become a fan of that team? Thats the logic you are using. I must have been a Celtic fan last year.