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MaNu4Tres
04-29-2009, 01:00 AM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gi43XF88LfbG/340x.jpg

With the Spurs owning many expiring contracts, the spurs front office may question the " 2010 plan" because of many teams having cap space for the summer of Le'Bron.

With that the Spurs may not want to waste another year with 66 percent of the big 3 slowly deteriorating as Manu and Tim will ride off into the sunset after the year 2012 or maybe sooner. Therefore the FO may push all in ASAP instead of waiting and gambling on signing a big name free agent 2010, which may be very unlikely.

If we are able to sign a capable athletic back up such as Carney/ Moon/ Barnes/ Jones with the LLE. And sign Sheed with the MLE. I think it would make the most sense to package up Mason/ Bonner/ Oberto/ Bowen to Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson.
They were on the cusp on trading Richard Jefferson to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz and Travis Outlaw for financial reasons. That makes me believe this could be a realistic possibility.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/richard_jefferson/

EricB
04-29-2009, 01:01 AM
I'm for it.

Defensive wing, can slash to the basket and make the occasional open three. Good character guy.

Has Spur written all over him.


Ownership and the FO probobly won't let it happen.

Manufan909
04-29-2009, 01:01 AM
I think he'd be a great pickup, especially for Bonner+Fin+KT.:hat

Spur|n|Austin
04-29-2009, 01:02 AM
I think he'd be a great pickup, especially for Bonner+Fin+KT.:hat

That'd be more of a fantasy than a dream. Bring it on!

fusionjazzman72
04-29-2009, 01:03 AM
Null!!! I'd rather have Edgar Jones.

HarlemHeat37
04-29-2009, 01:04 AM
The Bucks tried to trade him away for expiring contracts at the deadline, so we'll see..

Spursmania
04-29-2009, 01:08 AM
:tu:wow

loveforthegame
04-29-2009, 01:18 AM
Too good to be true. I know the expiring contracts would be attractive but it's hard to believe that a combination of Oberto, Finley, Bonner, Thomas, Bowen, picks, cash, whatever could get it done.

024
04-29-2009, 01:20 AM
i don't know what the spurs can offer. portland could give the bucks travis outlaw, someone full of talent and length at SF. with vaughn leaving, spurs' only promising player, george hill, will be needed.

NewJerSpur
04-29-2009, 01:21 AM
I'd rather have Travis Outlaw.

DAF86
04-29-2009, 01:27 AM
Too good to be true. I know the expiring contracts would be attractive but it's hard to believe that a combination of Oberto, Finley, Bonner, Thomas, Bowen, picks, cash, whatever could get it done.

It should get it done if the Bucks aren't a playoff team next season. Another posibility is, if Manu continues with the pattern of this last season (injured and not at his level), to use his expiring contract.

timtonymanu
04-29-2009, 01:37 AM
Im for it, but could we afford him?

DPG21920
04-29-2009, 01:39 AM
The only chance the Spurs have is if the Bucks are looking for a straight salary dump. If that is the case there are plenty of options.

Bruno
04-29-2009, 01:42 AM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:

holcs50
04-29-2009, 01:44 AM
Still rather have VC, but at this point anyone that has any all-star appearences ill take

Ditty
04-29-2009, 01:44 AM
rather have michael redd

DPG21920
04-29-2009, 01:47 AM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:

That is pretty much my ideal scenario that I outlined. If the Spurs could get Richard Jefferson, then it would mean the Bucks are looking for straight salary dump and really have no interest in Hill. So you can do Mason+Bowen+Oberto (which works) for RJ.

Then you could go after Sheed.

Sheed/Duncan/RJ/Manu/TP
KT/Ian or Bonner/Bowen (bought out)/Mason/Hill

MaNu4Tres
04-29-2009, 01:47 AM
rather have michael redd

Redd is a chucker who just came off tearing his ACL and is very very limited defensively.

NO THANKS

Ditty
04-29-2009, 01:51 AM
Redd is a chucker who just came off tearing his ACL and is very very limited defensively.

NO THANKS

well he just has to stand there and make 3's something the spurs couldn't do against the mavs

MaNu4Tres
04-29-2009, 01:55 AM
well he just has to stand there and make 3's something the spurs couldn't do against the mavs

That's our problem we have too many players outside our big 3 that can do that and that only even if they didn't fall against the mavs.

HarlemHeat37
04-29-2009, 01:57 AM
Jefferson hasn't been a good defender in 2 years, but he CAN play D, he's shown it in the past..he's also a slasher that we need..

Redd doesn't fit here..

Manufan909
04-29-2009, 02:06 AM
That is pretty much my ideal scenario that I outlined. If the Spurs could get Richard Jefferson, then it would mean the Bucks are looking for straight salary dump and really have no interest in Hill. So you can do Mason+Bowen+Oberto (which works) for RJ.

Then you could go after Sheed.

Sheed/Duncan/RJ/Manu/TP
KT/Ian or Bonner/Bowen (bought out)/Mason/Hill

I'd prefer Ian/Duncan/Jefferson/Mason/TP
KT/Gist/Hairston/Manu/Hill/Bowen/Bonner

I hope Ian, Hill, Gist, and Hairston prove they deserve to be in Pop's 9-man rotation come the '10 playoffs.

crc21209
04-29-2009, 02:07 AM
Ive always like RJ's game...he can slash to the basket and is somewhat of a good defender.

lurker23
04-29-2009, 02:10 AM
We have to remember that trade targets like this and "the 2010 plan" aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Many of us have suggested that "the 2010 plan" is in fact a plan to build up expiring contracts and take a sure-thing trade for a star rather than risk dealing with the 2010 free agent market.

NewJerSpur
04-29-2009, 02:10 AM
Still rather have Outlaw, but Jefferson's going to get to the line A LOT, though his jumper's still a bit inconsistent. Very athletic too. Would be a good teammate and is very competitive.

TDMVPDPOY
04-29-2009, 02:12 AM
remaining contract
08/09 13.2m
09/10 14.2m
10/11 15m

this guy is fkn overpaid....i look somewhere else...we can get like fringe players for around the MLE whose waiting to burst on teh scene....if we going to absorb a few contracts, that team better throw in a few draft picks....

MaNu4Tres
04-29-2009, 02:14 AM
remaining contract
08/09 13.2m
09/10 14.2m
10/11 15m

this guy is fkn overpaid....i look somewhere else...we can get like fringe players for around the MLE whose waiting to burst on teh scene....

It's only for 2 more years. What do we have to lose? If he doesn't work out we can use his money for the Summer of 2011 and Duncan will still have another year left.

HarlemHeat37
04-29-2009, 02:15 AM
taking bad contracts is the whole point of this..this team needs to milk Duncan's last years as much as they can..

MaNu4Tres
04-29-2009, 02:18 AM
taking bad contracts is the whole point of this..this team needs to milk Duncan's last years as much as they can..

Agreed 100 percent

There's no guarantee a top tier free agent in 2010 will come here anyway. To be realistic it's almost certain it won't happen. Why gamble then when we can get a for sure thing now and for 2009/ 2010 season. Instead of wasting one of Duncan's last years.

HarlemHeat37
04-29-2009, 02:20 AM
I'm completely against taking a risk for a guy like Bosh or whoever..wasting another year of Duncan in 2009-2010 would be a huge gamble..

Manufan909
04-29-2009, 02:24 AM
I'm completely against taking a risk for a guy like Bosh or whoever..wasting another year of Duncan in 2009-2010 would be a huge gamble..

If the Spurs do land Bosh, we'll all have to eat crow. I don't anyone approves of that plan, myself included..:p:

Ditty
04-29-2009, 02:26 AM
If the Spurs do land Bosh, we'll all have to eat crow. I don't anyone approves of that plan, myself included..:p:

i want bosh and aldridge to come play in san antono

mattyc
04-29-2009, 07:03 AM
I can't stand Jefferson from his days at the Nets, but he would be an outstanding player in San Antonio on both ends.

Thomas82
04-29-2009, 09:18 AM
RJ was a very good defender a few years ago, so I think he can still play D when he's focused..so that shouldn't be a problem..

His D would get better in our system.

Thomas82
04-29-2009, 09:20 AM
taking bad contracts is the whole point of this..this team needs to milk duncan's last years as much as they can..

+1

BG_Spurs_Fan
04-29-2009, 09:25 AM
If we trade for him it means we're most likely waving goodbye to Manu after 2010. No thanks. Good player though.

SenorSpur
04-29-2009, 10:58 AM
Spurs are not going to be in the running for anyone in 2010. If the FO believes they're gonna be players a year from now, dream on. Assuming the FO believes the championship window truly is not closed, the Spurs must act quickly, in order to keep it propped open.

Because of Duncan's limited shelf-life and because there could be a lot of teams looking to move players, the Spurs should become players in the 2009 market. RJ represents a player that is as good as anything they could get in 2010, that fills a direct need.

Mel_13
04-29-2009, 11:36 AM
It's only for 2 more years. What do we have to lose? If he doesn't work out we can use his money for the Summer of 2011 and Duncan will still have another year left.

Only the ability to use that 29.2M for several other players at several positions of need over the course of the next two years.

MaNu4Tres
04-29-2009, 11:46 AM
Only the ability to use that 29.2M for several other players at several positions of need over the course of the next two years.

U mean 14.6 million?

Like in 03? when we signed Rasho/ Horry/ Anthony Carter/ And traded for Turkoglu and Mercer?


Several other positions?

If we were to trade for him it would take us Oberto/ Bowen/ Mason/Bonner and they would be able to save 4 million dollars by Oberto and Bowen's contract being optional. Once they would cut Bowen I'd resign him. Therefore we would have:

Parker/ Hill
Manu/ Finley/
Richard Jefferson/ Bowen/ Gist
Tim/ Mahimni/ Vet minimum ( Malik Rose/ Melvin Ely)
Free Agent Signing ( Sheed)/ Kurt Thomas

And we would still have our League Level exception to add a wing player like Carney or a big man.

In other words I rather use that 14.6 million on a STUD than use that 14.6 million on 2 more Oberto's and 2 more Udoka's.

Mel_13
04-29-2009, 11:56 AM
U mean 14.6 million?

Like in 03? when we signed Rasho/ Horry/ Anthony Carter/ And traded for Turkoglu and Mercer?


Several other positions?

If we were to trade for him it would take us Oberto/ Bowen/ Mason/Bonner and they would be able to save 4 million dollars by Oberto and Bowen's contract being optional. Once they would cut Bowen I'd resign him. Therefore we would have:

Parker/ Hill
Manu/ Finley/
Richard Jefferson/ Bowen/ Gist
Tim/ Mahimni/ Vet minimum ( Malik Rose/ Melvin Ely)
Free Agent Signing ( Sheed)/ Kurt Thomas

And we would still have our League Level exception to add a wing player like Carney or a big man.

In other words I rather use that 14.6 million on a STUD than use that 14.6 million on 2 more Oberto's and 2 more Udoka's.

Congratulations, you're at least 7-10M over the lux tax line and have, therefore, exceeded the team's likely budget by 14-20M. Not gonna happen. And please, before you launch another rant, actually check your numbers. I assure you I've checked mine.

xtremesteven33
04-29-2009, 12:03 PM
My name is Xtremesteven,

and I approve this trade :tu

TDomination
04-29-2009, 01:41 PM
Hmm...would be interesting.

Put me in the "would love to have him" list.

jdev82
04-29-2009, 03:40 PM
RJ + Sheed + TP + Manu + Resigning Bowen = RING

jdev82
04-29-2009, 03:40 PM
oh and TD of course

Spurs Brazil
04-29-2009, 04:07 PM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:

Agree 100%.
Just a question. When the deadline on Bruce and Oberto? I think the Spurs can make this trade happen on draft night
RJ is my target number 1 this offseason. I hope the Spurs can fina a way to trade for him.
I think the Bucks may ask for Mason instead of Thomas, but I'd still would do it

Bruno
04-29-2009, 04:09 PM
Agree 100%.
Just a question. When the deadline on Bruce and Oberto?

The deadline (when their contracts got to 50% guaranteed to 100% guaranteed) is on July 1st for Oberto and on August 1st for Bruce.

Spurs Brazil
04-29-2009, 04:16 PM
The deadline (when their contracts got to 50% guaranteed to 100% guaranteed) is on July 1st for Oberto and on August 1st for Bruce.

So if the Spurs are going to do something with them it's going to be on draft night

FlAVaK
04-29-2009, 04:22 PM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:

I like the idea of RJ to the Spurs, but I could see Milwaukee wanting more than just cap space and veterans, so the Spurs maybe would have to include Mason.

Time will tell...

Bruno
04-29-2009, 04:37 PM
So if the Spurs are going to do something with them it's going to be on draft night

Yes or even maybe before it.
The Rasho for Bonner trade was made few days before the draft.

Mal
04-29-2009, 04:49 PM
Landing here RJ would be great, but it won`t help. He is earning too much. With 4 guys earning over 10 mln, and no will to pay taxes, Spurs must have 11 guys with minimum contracts. That`s scary

objective
04-30-2009, 05:27 AM
if the Spurs are going to overpay someone drastically to play the wing, much better Vince Carter than Richard Jefferson.

exstatic
05-01-2009, 11:26 PM
In other words I rather use that 14.6 million on a STUD than use that 14.6 million on 2 more Oberto's and 2 more Udoka's.

RJ has never been, and will never BE a STUD in the NBA. On most teams, he'd be a complementary 2nd or 3rd option. On the Spurs, you could literally watch his scoring drop to about 12-13 points as the #4 banana. Way too much money for that.

I've always categorized RJ in that Shawn Marion box: he's not a guy who can lead a team or even take over a game. His game is WAY to dependent on other people. He's never going to put a team on his back and win a series for you. He can't create. He literally needs to be spoonfed his offense. With that in mind, 14.6 million is WAY too much cap money to spend on him. He's not a difference maker, but he's making difference maker money. That's slow cap death. There's a reason NJ dumped him and MIL is looking to do the same.

MaNu4Tres
05-01-2009, 11:49 PM
RJ has never been, and will never BE a STUD in the NBA. On most teams, he'd be a complementary 2nd or 3rd option. On the Spurs, you could literally watch his scoring drop to about 12-13 points as the #4 banana. Way too much money for that.

I've always categorized RJ in that Shawn Marion box: he's not a guy who can lead a team or even take over a game. His game is WAY to dependent on other people. He's never going to put a team on his back and win a series for you. He can't create. He literally needs to be spoonfed his offense. With that in mind, 14.6 million is WAY too much cap money to spend on him. He's not a difference maker, but he's making difference maker money. That's slow cap death. There's a reason NJ dumped him and MIL is looking to do the same.

Milwaukee is looking to dump him because of the economy, not because of his play. He had the best year out of anyone on that team. And 14.6 million for 2 more years isn't exactly cap death. Maybe if his deal was for another 4-5 years yes. But it isn't.

Jefferson is a stud. Maybe not a star. But he's a stud for sure. He'd fit in perfectly as a Spur.

baseline bum
05-02-2009, 05:25 AM
Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million :lmao

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.

MaNu4Tres
05-02-2009, 12:00 PM
Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million :lmao

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.

59.7 million plus

George Hill 1.08
Ian Mahimni 1.08
Kurt Thomas 3.80 ( which could be traded in a sign and trade to bring in Sheed or McDyess)
Finley's 2.5
Gist/Hairston/ Williams won't make more than a million
Bowen for the minimum after he is bought out by Milwaukee.
Add in a couple of minimum deals.

In other words it can happen, if they aren't concerned with the 11-15 players that are on our roster.

MaNu4Tres
05-02-2009, 12:08 PM
Bowen 4.0 million
Oberto 3.5 million
Mason 3.78 million
Bonner 3.24 million
14.52 million

So we are spending 14.52 million on Oberto, Bonner, Bowen, Mason

So you are telling me you rather have these 4 players than Richard Jefferson?

The best of that bunch is Mason and he is about as valuable as Michael Finley since their skills are pretty much identical except for the fact that Mason can dribble the ball up the court better. I'd even have to say Finley is a better defender than Mason :lol.

And with this trade Milwaukee would most likely cut Bowen and Oberto, so we could resign them both for the minimum.

So basically we could be trading Bonner and Mason for Richard Jefferson.

It's not a Spurfan masturbation thread, Milwaukee is in trouble financially and were willing to trade Jefferson to Portland for Lafrentz and a throw in last year at the deadline.

Mel_13
05-02-2009, 12:44 PM
59.7 million plus

George Hill 1.08
Ian Mahimni 1.08
Kurt Thomas 3.80 ( which could be traded in a sign and trade to bring in Sheed or McDyess)
Finley's 2.5
Gist/Hairston/ Williams won't make more than a million
Bowen for the minimum after he is bought out by Milwaukee.
Add in a couple of minimum deals.

In other words it can happen, if they aren't concerned with the 11-15 players that are on our roster.

You're still over the tax and your depth chart looks like this.

TD/Gist/Minimum Guy
KT/Ian/Minimum Guy
RJ/Bowen/Hairston
Manu/Finley/Williams
Parker/Hill/Minimum Guy

That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

MaNu4Tres
05-02-2009, 01:26 PM
You're still over the tax and your depth chart looks like this.

TD/Gist/Minimum Guy
KT/Ian/Minimum Guy
RJ/Bowen/Hairston
Manu/Finley/Williams
Parker/Hill/Minimum Guy

That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

Who would u rather have?

Bonner and Mason or Richard Jefferson?

Mel_13
05-02-2009, 05:46 PM
Who would u rather have?

Bonner and Mason or Richard Jefferson?

What difference does it make? This is about the simple math, not about the indisputable fact that RJ is a better player than everyone on the Spurs not named Tim, Tony or Manu.

You cannot add RJ's contract to the Big 3, fill out the rest of the roster, AND stay under the luxury tax unless you are going to have a Big 4 and 9-11 players on minimum deals.

The only way the Spurs will consider adding a 14-16M contract to TD, TP, and Manu will be for an all-star level big. You think Toronto will give up Bosh for our extra contracts? I didn't think so, either.

There is just no way the Spurs add a perimeter player that makes more money than TP unless they deal Manu.

You can contemplate a trade for a perimeter player on a contract the size of Caron Butler or Corey Maggette and possibly make it work, but RJ and VC won't work

You can have Tim, Tony and RJ on the Spurs. You cannot have Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ. That is, in the real world

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Marcus Bryant
05-02-2009, 06:36 PM
Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million :lmao

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.

Well, it was $10 Mil, but I agree.

baseline bum
05-02-2009, 06:39 PM
Well, it was $10 Mil, but I agree.

Didn't the team have an option on the final year of Butler's contract? They already paid the first of that 3-year deal.

MaNu4Tres
05-02-2009, 08:38 PM
What difference does it make? This is about the simple math, not about the indisputable fact that RJ is a better player than everyone on the Spurs not named Tim, Tony or Manu.

You cannot add RJ's contract to the Big 3, fill out the rest of the roster, AND stay under the luxury tax unless you are going to have a Big 4 and 9-11 players on minimum deals.

The only way the Spurs will consider adding a 14-16M contract to TD, TP, and Manu will be for an all-star level big. You think Toronto will give up Bosh for our extra contracts? I didn't think so, either.

There is just no way the Spurs add a perimeter player that makes more money than TP unless they deal Manu.

You can contemplate a trade for a perimeter player on a contract the size of Caron Butler or Corey Maggette and possibly make it work, but RJ and VC won't work

You can have Tim, Tony and RJ on the Spurs. You cannot have Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ. That is, in the real world

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Then why were the Spurs rumored in about every reliable source on the web about trading for Vince Carter.

Mel_13
05-02-2009, 08:43 PM
Then why were the Spurs rumored in about every reliable source on the web about trading for Vince Carter.

and no trade took place

MaNu4Tres
05-02-2009, 08:55 PM
and no trade took place

You didn't answer my question. You claim it would be virtually impossible, yet it was everywhere on the web and news saying it was close to happening.

Mel_13
05-02-2009, 09:12 PM
You didn't answer my question. You claim it would be virtually impossible, yet it was everywhere on the web and news saying it was close to happening.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? How can I possibly account for why a rumor did not come true. There is no way to know the exact parameters of whatever deal was discussed.

There were rumors of talks. If there were talks, the obstacles proved too great to reach an agreement. The lack of a deal would indicate that it was unacceptable to at least side. I have no idea which side or why. Do you have some spycam info you would like to share?

Are you saying that trade rumors are somehow proof that the Spurs are willing to exceed the lux tax?


Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

MaNu4Tres
05-02-2009, 09:19 PM
Are you being deliberately obtuse? How can I possibly account for why a rumor did not come true. There is no way to know the exact parameters of whatever deal was discussed.

There were rumors of talks. If there were talks, the obstacles proved too great to reach an agreement. The lack of a deal would indicate that it was unacceptable to at least side. I have no idea which side or why. Do you have some spycam info you would like to share?

Are you saying that trade rumors are somehow proof that the Spurs are willing to exceed the lux tax?


Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

I love you too Mel 13, when I get home at around 3 a.m I will be happy to figure out a scenario. Unfortunately due to women and alcohol, I will not be able to accommodate you at this time. But I will figure out a scenario. GO SPURS GO

Mel_13
05-02-2009, 09:25 PM
I love you too Mel 13, when I get home at around 3 a.m I will be happy to figure out a scenario. Unfortunately due to women and alcohol, I will not be able to accommodate you at this time. But I will figure out a scenario. GO SPURS GO

good luck with the women and the alcohol, I trust you'll have a greater chance of success with that. Sounds like more fun, too.

:toast

TheSpursFNRule
05-03-2009, 02:28 AM
good luck with the women and the alcohol, I trust you'll have a greater chance of success with that. Sounds like more fun, too.

:toast

Mel 13 who will we land this summer if anyone?

Ditty
05-03-2009, 02:32 AM
this trade will not happen

financial reasons

guarnteed

thread closed

MaNu4Tres
05-03-2009, 03:45 AM
SpursOWn Texas= Ms. Cleo

angelbelow
05-03-2009, 04:04 AM
im personally a fan of RJ. his contract isnt very nice though..

Bruno
05-03-2009, 06:07 AM
I haven't look closely at the financial side but it will be damn hard to get RJ, have a good team and not go significantly over the tax.

Filling the perimeter won't be a problem. In the playoffs, Parker will play 36mpg, Ginobili 32mpg and RJ 38mpg.
Hill and his $1.1M contract can play the backup PG spot and some minutes a the SG.
To play the 10mpg behind RJ and some minutes at the SG spot, you can re-sign Bruce for the min and a shooter like Wally Szczerbiak for the min.

The true problem will be to get cheap and efficient bigs. It's even problematic that Spurs can't count on Mahinmi, who is a huge question mark, and Splitter, who will stay in Spain.

Mel_13
05-03-2009, 06:15 AM
Mel 13 who will we land this summer if anyone?


Too many variables to know or even have a good guess.

But with the Spurs having 45.5M committed to the Big 3 and lux tax of around 71M, that leaves about 25.5M for the rest of the roster.

If the Spurs make a trade for a proven NBA starter, I believe the upper salary limit for that player will 9-10M. That leaves 15-16M for 9-10 players. Once you go much higher, the rest of the roster must be filled primarily with rookies and vet minimum contracts.

Mel_13
05-03-2009, 06:20 AM
I haven't look closely at the financial side but it will be damn hard to get RJ, have a good team and not go significantly over the tax.

Filling the perimeter won't be a problem. In the playoffs, Parker will play 36mpg, Ginobili 32mpg and RJ 38mpg.
Hill and his $1.1M contract can play the backup PG spot and some minutes a the SG.
To play the 10mpg behind RJ and some minutes at the SG spot, you can re-sign Bruce for the min and a shooter like Wally Szczerbiak for the min.

The true problem will be to get cheap and efficient bigs. It's even problematic that Spurs can't count on Mahinmi, who is a huge question mark, and Splitter, who will stay in Spain.

And thus my contention that if the Spurs do trade for a 10M+ player, it will be for a big, not a perimeter player. It seems much more likely to find someone cheap for the perimeter, like Houston did with Wafer and Denver did with Jones, than to find a rotation quality big off the scrap heap.

intlspurshk
05-03-2009, 03:44 PM
SPURS need to give up Manu for RJ and then use MLE to sign a young center. To re-energize the team, it's good to try this route. A heathy Manu can't help SPURS to get past Lakers anyway and I can project more injury for Manu in the coming seasons.

SPURS can include Bonner or Mason in the trade to get a big from Buck too like CV

EricB
05-03-2009, 04:12 PM
SPURS need to give up Manu for RJ and then use MLE to sign a young center. To re-energize the team, it's good to try this route. A heathy Manu can't help SPURS to get past Lakers anyway and I can project more injury for Manu in the coming seasons.

SPURS can include Bonner or Mason in the trade to get a big from Buck too like CV


Manu can't do it, but a lesser player than Manu can?

WTF

duncan228
06-23-2009, 11:47 AM
This is on the Spurs board too.

Spurs discuss trade for Bucks’ Jefferson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-jeffersontrade062309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
By Adrian Wojnarowski

The San Antonio Spurs are in serious discussions with the Milwaukee Bucks for forward Richard Jefferson, league executives told Yahoo! Sports on Tuesday.

The proposed deal would have the Spurs send send veterans Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto to the Bucks, who are looking to shed the remaining two years, $29.2 million on Jefferson’s contract for the Spurs’ expiring contracts.

The deal isn’t completed, but league executives say both teams appear motivated to get it done.

Jefferson is the athletic, scoring forward that Spurs have craved to complement the aging tandem of Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili. The Spurs have been pursuing the New Jersey Nets Vince Carter too, but it appears Jefferson is the deal that they can make now.

After arriving in Milwaukee last summer from New Jersey, Jefferson averaged 19.6 points for the Bucks last season.

Bowen, 38, has been a staple of the past three Spurs championships and one of the NBA’s most dogged defenders.

MaNu4Tres
06-23-2009, 01:31 PM
Where is Mel 13???? I told you so Mel lol

to21
06-23-2009, 01:45 PM
this trade will not happen

financial reasons

guarnteed

thread closed

Sdayi135
06-23-2009, 01:59 PM
100000000X better than acquiring Vince Carter so let the season begin already

Mr.Bottomtooth
06-23-2009, 02:02 PM
this trade will not happen

financial reasons

guarnteed

thread closed

:lmao

Mel_13
06-23-2009, 02:09 PM
Where is Mel 13???? I told you so Mel lol

I said the Spurs could not acquire RJ without exceeding the lux tax or filling out most of the roster with minimum salary players. That remains true. They have apparently decided to exceed the tax. I am happy.

MaNu4Tres
06-23-2009, 02:12 PM
Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million :lmao

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.

LMAO lol oooh i love it

baseline bum
06-23-2009, 02:35 PM
LMAO lol oooh i love it

Man, I love being wrong there too!

Duncan2177
06-23-2009, 04:37 PM
What difference does it make? This is about the simple math, not about the indisputable fact that RJ is a better player than everyone on the Spurs not named Tim, Tony or Manu.

You cannot add RJ's contract to the Big 3, fill out the rest of the roster, AND stay under the luxury tax unless you are going to have a Big 4 and 9-11 players on minimum deals.

The only way the Spurs will consider adding a 14-16M contract to TD, TP, and Manu will be for an all-star level big. You think Toronto will give up Bosh for our extra contracts? I didn't think so, either.

There is just no way the Spurs add a perimeter player that makes more money than TP unless they deal Manu.

You can contemplate a trade for a perimeter player on a contract the size of Caron Butler or Corey Maggette and possibly make it work, but RJ and VC won't work

You can have Tim, Tony and RJ on the Spurs. You cannot have Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ. That is, in the real world

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

We have Tim,Tony,Manu and RJ now. :lol

Buddy Holly
06-23-2009, 04:41 PM
Ownership and the FO probobly won't let it happen.

They will and and they did. :toast

MaNu4Tres
06-23-2009, 04:43 PM
Thank you Pop, R.C and Peter Holt for making me the winner in the debate between me Mel 13 and Baseline Bum.

TheProfessor
06-23-2009, 06:07 PM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:
Bruno 1, KBP 0

Cry Havoc
06-23-2009, 06:37 PM
In fairness to the doubters in this thread, if you told me yesterday that the Spurs would be trading Fabs, Bowen, and KT for Jefferson today, my response would have been, "Go screw yourself for getting my hopes up over an absolute fantasy that will never happen."

Blackjack
06-23-2009, 06:50 PM
Richard Jefferson to San Antonio


Old flames die hard. In February several news outlets reported that the Spurs were in talks with the Nets and Bucks to trade for either Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter. Apparently, those talks never died.

Chad Ford is reporting that the Spurs and Bucks have agreed to a deal that would send Fabricio Oberto, Kurt Thomas and Bruce Bowen to Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson. This is a no brainer for the Spurs, and it puts them right back in the championship hunt. Richard Jefferson is a monster upgrade.

Jefferson’s skill set couldn’t be a better match for San Antonio. He can score going to the hoop, is a capable defender, and shoots nearly .400 from the arc. His 19 ppg give San Antonio the 4th scorer they’ve needed for several seasons. Jefferson averaged a mere 2 TO per game last season as Milwaukee’s best player. It’s hard to imagine a better trade scenario. The Spurs just struck oil.

Relative to his salary, Richard Jefferson may under produce. His career PER is 16.7. That’s a little low for a player owed 14 and 15 million the next two seasons. But he’s only 29. And his production is vastly superior to anything the Spurs have had on the wing since Sean Elliott.

My best guess is that the Bucks will buy out Bruce Bowen and we’ll see him return to San Antonio prior to training camp. If that happens, this trade goes from a homerun to a grand slam. The only downside is that the move leaves the Spurs thin upfront, but one suspects they have a back up plan in the works to replace Kurt Thomas. Oberto’s best play is two seasons behind him, and the Spurs actually win by freeing up his roster spot. By adding Jefferson, the Spurs have converted Roger Mason Jr. into a potent 5th option or valuable trade chip. The ripple effects go from the center to shore, and I’m hard pressed to find a single negative in this move.

Aside from landing Jefferson, the other story here is that the Spurs have moved away from their 2010 cap strategy. Jefferson’s salary eats up everything they had on reserve for a big name free agent run. But Jefferson is probably as good as any player they were likely to land next summer, so in that sense they’ve simply accelerated their rebuild with a player that can help them within Tim Duncan’s window. They’re not waiting on 2010 by sitting out 2009. This also means there is no reason for the team to play cautious with their checkbook. With their 2010 plan on the scrapheap, the team could theoretically make another trade for a player whose salary would push them against the taxline.

As I write this, my head keeps going back to something that might be missed in all this. San Antonio is good to its fans. Here is a team that is committed to winning. After being bounced in the first round, they could have faded from view just as everyone expected them to. But instead, they got off the mat and started swinging. They’re a small market team with a relatively poor ownership group in a bad economy. And they just added a big contract to their books when 1/2 the league is trying to shed cap. Take note.

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2009/06/23/richard-jefferson-to-san-antonio/

EricB
06-23-2009, 07:06 PM
As I write this, my head keeps going back to something that might be missed in all this. San Antonio is good to its fans. Here is a team that is committed to winning. After being bounced in
the first round, they could have faded from view just as everyone expected them to. But instead, they got off the mat and started swinging. They’re a small market team with a relatively poor ownership group in a bad economy. And they just added a big contract to their books when 1/2 the league is trying to shed cap. Take note


Another reason to be proud to be a Spurs fan.

Instead of blowing it up, they are smart, and pull off a doozy of a trade.

Great job FO and ownership group.

Brazil
06-23-2009, 07:44 PM
Man, I love being wrong there too!

:lol it was a good call bb !

congrat Bruno you had it right

Tully365
06-23-2009, 08:09 PM
As I write this, my head keeps going back to something that might be missed in all this. San Antonio is good to its fans. Here is a team that is committed to winning. After being bounced in


Another reason to be proud to be a Spurs fan.

Instead of blowing it up, they are smart, and pull off a doozy of a trade.

Great job FO and ownership group.

:toast Nice post.

lefty
06-24-2009, 12:32 AM
SPURS need to give up Manu for RJ and then use MLE to sign a young center. To re-energize the team, it's good to try this route. A heathy Manu can't help SPURS to get past Lakers anyway and I can project more injury for Manu in the coming seasons.

SPURS can include Bonner or Mason in the trade to get a big from Buck too like CV

Wasn't necessary :downspin:

Blackjack
06-24-2009, 12:36 AM
Great call, Bruno.:toast

MaNu4Tres
06-24-2009, 12:38 AM
Great call, Bruno.:toast

Hey I started the thread. Not Bruno. I know Bruno brings out some of the best insight on this board, but give some kudos to the unknown posters every now and then. Geeze

Not that it matters, but be right about the kudos.

lefty
06-24-2009, 12:42 AM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:
:wow:wow:wow:wow:king

kbrury
06-24-2009, 12:51 AM
Hey I started the thread. Not Bruno. I know Bruno brings out some of the best insight on this board, but give some kudos to the unknown posters every now and then. Geeze

Not that it matters, but be right about the kudos.

Well he got the trade right.

Blackjack
06-24-2009, 01:05 AM
Hey I started the thread. Not Bruno. I know Bruno brings out some of the best insight on this board, but give some kudos to the unknown posters every now and then. Geeze

Not that it matters, but be right about the kudos.

Of course, you get props.:toast

Had you no started this glorious thread, that could surely never be duplicated, Bruno never would have had the vehicle to make the great call on the trade that he did.(It's really a wonder why Bruno didn't thank you before posting. Quite shameful, really. :hat)

Ed Helicopter Jones
06-24-2009, 01:21 AM
Considering how little the Spurs had to give up to get RJ, I'd say this was a great move. Basically like a FA acquisition that only entails a 2 year commitment. Not too bad.

MaNu4Tres
06-24-2009, 01:38 AM
That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

Blackjack
06-24-2009, 01:59 AM
^^ It's going to be be quite the sight seeing LeBron in the silver and black.:smokin

Bruno
06-24-2009, 02:54 AM
Thanks to all. :toast

And props to MaNu4Tres. ;)

bdictjames
06-24-2009, 03:06 AM
Manu4Tres should get a trophy or something for this one.

Danny.Zhu
06-24-2009, 04:09 AM
Amazing thread.

Mal
06-24-2009, 04:37 AM
Don`t tell me that RC and Pop don`t read Spurstalk.

They only have to send e-mail to Bucks and trade was completed.

Gj Bruno :)

Blackjack
06-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Some Thoughts on the Jefferson Trade



Ed. Note: I apologize for my recent absence. I began graduate school on Monday so, needless to say, my life has been a bit hectic the last few days. Once I get a better sense of my schedule, I’ll be back in full force. But I couldn’t let yesterday’s events pass without offering some comment.

As you know, yesterday the Spurs acquired Richard Jefferson for Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto. I agree with the general consensus: The Spurs have made a smart move and have firmly placed themselves back into the hunt for a 5th title. According to our friendly neighborhood Bucks blogger, this isn’t such a bad move for Milwaukee either. But there have been a few naysayers, and rightfully so. Few trades are all reward and no risk. That being said, I think some of the criticisms that have popped up are misguided and I want to take this opportunity to respond. I also want to raise a few concerns of my own:


Some questions have been raised regarding Richard Jefferson’s attitude. He has developed a reputation as a problem in the locker room, and in some people’s mind his acquisition has put the Spurs much-heralded chemistry at some amount of risk. Personally, I am not that concerned. Jefferson went from a devolving situation in New Jersey to a dead end situation in Milwaukee (Yes, the Bucks were in striking distance of the playoffs but, as Jeremy Schmidt himself admitted, A Jefferson-Redd led team was never going beyond the first round). Few players would survive such a transition without some negative press about their “attitude.”

In all honesty, I think there are plenty of reasons to be quite optimistic about the attitude and energy Jefferson will bring: Jefferson has his best, and what may be last, opportunity to win a ring this next season. And he didn’t have to sacrifice a dime to get it. I see no reason why we can’t expect 82 games of ear-to-ear grins from number 24.

You know the interesting thing about this speculation regarding Jefferson and his attitude? For one man it isn’t speculation: Gregg Popovich. Popovich served as an assistant coach on the 2003 FIBA U.S. Men’s National Team and on the 2004 Olympic Team, both of which Jefferson played on. Popovich hasn’t merely scouted Jefferson; he has coached him directly. No one in the organization is in a better position to judge Jefferson’s attitude than Coach Pop. And if Popovich is a believer than I am as well.

On a similar but slightly different note, take a look at the elite small forwards the Spurs have targeted in the last 12 months: Corey Maggette, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson. Jefferson is easily the least established “head case” of the three.

Aaron Stampler of Pounding the Rock pointed out that Jefferson had a rather poor +/- this past season. In fact, with -104 he had the second worst +/- on the team. I think this is an excellent opportunity to point out the fundamental problem with the +/- metric: There are always 4 other guys in your same jersey with you on the court. And every time one of those guys allows a basket or fails to score, that affects your +/-. When you are Matt Bonner, and you start alongside Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, you could accidentally end up with the highest +/- on the team. When you are Richard Jefferson and you not only start alongside Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric but also primarily play against other team’s starting 5, you may end up with a terrible +/-. I’ll readily admit his PER this last season (15.45) was low considering his salary but I think his +/- is a misleading stat.

Before moving on to my criticisms, I want to propose an idea which I have yet to do the appropriate research for: One legitimate point of concern many commentators have noted is how dangerously close this move puts the Spurs to the luxury tax. If the Spurs are going to finish rounding out this roster (after yesterday’s events, the the frontcourt is certainly in need of a little depth), they will most likely have to head north of the cap. For many this has come as a surprise given how closely associated the Spurs are with the ethic of frugality. (Although, as R.C. Buford said during an interview yesterday afternoon, “this won’t be the first time we’ve been a luxury tax paying team.”)

I have a theory. This past season the Spurs experienced an uncommon financial shock. They received the revenue from only two home playoff games. By some estimates, a franchise can make close to $1 million per playoff home game. Although it would be an enormous gamble, the Spurs may be preparing to defy our expectations and absorb the luxury tax in the hopes that the excess revenue from a deep playoff run will offset the costs. I will do some research and try to find out how much the team made in ‘07, ‘08, and ‘09. If there was a significant drop in the Spurs ‘09 revenue, there may be some truth to this idea. (I’m hardly the first person to propose that this business strategy may work for an NBA team, but I have never seen hard numbers that prove its validity.)


At this point, my primary concern is our frontcourt depth. Matt Bonner is unacceptable as a starting center. With players like James Gist and Ian Mahinmi in the pipeline, we are in an excellent position to pad the end of the bench but, if we legitimately intend to compete this season, we need a frontcourt contributor we don’t currently possess. As Tim said to me late yesterday evening, “We have roster spots 1 through 6 and 9 through 12. We need 7 and 8.”

We also still need some depth at the small forward position (Who will backup Jefferson? Udoka?), but that can be more readily solved by the draft. If we do choose a small forward, Jefferson’s acquisition does take a fair amount of pressure off of that young man: Instead of praying that he will grow into a semi-legitimate starter by mid-season, he can contribute 10-15 minutes off of the bench and develop comfortably and calmly.

At the end of yesterday, there were some questions that still hung in the air. But all in all, this is a trade I am excited about. Had we allowed those contracts to expire and waited for the 2010 free agent class, we would have quietly suffered last season’s fate while Duncan and Ginobili grew a year older. Add on the fact that the 2010 FA market would be a free-for-all full of attractive buyers, giving us no assurances the Spurs would land the caliber of player we sought. We had an opportunity to compete now and we took it. Given the ages of Duncan and Manu, I’m glad we did.


http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2009/...ade/#more-3287

Spursmania
06-24-2009, 01:28 PM
:tu:wow

I can't believe almost 2 months later, the Spurs have now acquired Richard Jefferson. Some thought it would never happen. Wow oh wow:wow

Spursmania
06-24-2009, 01:29 PM
Manu4Tres should get a trophy or something for this one.

Seriously...
+1

Yuixafun
06-24-2009, 07:45 PM
Thank you Pop, R.C and Peter Holt for making me the winner in the debate between me Mel 13 and Baseline Bum.


Took me till today to come into this thread, but I started from page 1 (already knowing the outcome) and watched as lines were drawn (chuckling) comments cracked (giggling), impossible proclaimed (smile).. and then the trade announced and crow being served.

Then I read that and laughed like Santa Clause. Hohoho

Blackjack
06-24-2009, 08:56 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gi43XF88LfbG/340x.jpg

With the Spurs owning many expiring contracts, the spurs front office may question the " 2010 plan" because of many teams having cap space for the summer of Le'Bron.

With that the Spurs may not want to waste another year with 66 percent of the big 3 slowly deteriorating as Manu and Tim will ride off into the sunset after the year 2012 or maybe sooner. Therefore the FO may push all in ASAP instead of waiting and gambling on signing a big name free agent 2010, which may be very unlikely.

If we are able to sign a capable athletic back up such as Carney/ Moon/ Barnes/ Jones with the LLE. And sign Sheed with the MLE. I think it would make the most sense to package up Mason/ Bonner/ Oberto/ Bowen to Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson.
They were on the cusp on trading Richard Jefferson to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz and Travis Outlaw for financial reasons. That makes me believe this could be a realistic possibility.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/richard_jefferson/

I thought you were being facetious when asking for props the first time, thus my post of sarcasm.(Probably should've read the OP:lol)

Nice post.:toast

Brazil
06-24-2009, 09:02 PM
Props to Manu4tres and to all the good contributors of this awsome forum !!!!!

Spursmania
06-24-2009, 09:27 PM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:

You hit it on the head as well Bruno. Great job. I am just so damn happy with this trade. Getting Bowen back would be icing on the cake.

mystargtr34
06-24-2009, 09:35 PM
Jefferson is actually 6'7.25" without shoes. Making him about 6'8"-6'9" in NBA height. Thats pretty damn big, even for a SF. He's got a 7'0" wingspan which is pretty good, and a standing reach of 8'7" which is about average for his size.

Impressive for a guy that size to be the athlete that he is.

rascal
06-25-2009, 04:43 AM
I said the Spurs could not acquire RJ without exceeding the lux tax or filling out most of the roster with minimum salary players. That remains true. They have apparently decided to exceed the tax. I am happy.


You were wrong. You said there was no chance of this happening.

rascal
06-25-2009, 04:46 AM
Thank you Pop, R.C and Peter Holt for making me the winner in the debate between me Mel 13 and Baseline Bum.

Great call on this one.
:toast

will_spurs
07-08-2009, 10:29 AM
You were wrong. You said there was no chance of this happening.

Read again, every time he gave the context and every time one condition was that the Spurs wouldn't go over the luxury tax threshold, which they have always been reluctant to do, so it was a fair assumption.

Of course when the owners decide to open the pocketbook anything can happen (e.g. Shaq going to Phoenix - and Sarver isn't really Mark Cuban).

Still a good call by Manu4Tres, I really didn't see that one coming at all - way under the radar at the time.

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 02:56 AM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gi43XF88LfbG/340x.jpg

With the Spurs owning many expiring contracts, the spurs front office may question the " 2010 plan" because of many teams having cap space for the summer of Le'Bron.

With that the Spurs may not want to waste another year with 66 percent of the big 3 slowly deteriorating as Manu and Tim will ride off into the sunset after the year 2012 or maybe sooner. Therefore the FO may push all in ASAP instead of waiting and gambling on signing a big name free agent 2010, which may be very unlikely.

If we are able to sign a capable athletic back up such as Carney/ Moon/ Barnes/ Jones with the LLE. And sign Sheed with the MLE. I think it would make the most sense to package up Mason/ Bonner/ Oberto/ Bowen to Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson.
They were on the cusp on trading Richard Jefferson to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz and Travis Outlaw for financial reasons. That makes me believe this could be a realistic possibility.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/richard_jefferson/

Great foresight!:toast

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 02:56 AM
Null!!! I'd rather have Edgar Jones.
:lol

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:01 AM
I'd rather have Travis Outlaw.
:bang

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:04 AM
RJ is almost the perfect fit for Spurs' SF spot.

Bucks will have some luxury tax troubles next year. Spurs with Bowen and Oberto partially guaranteed contracts have the ability to make an offer that will allow Bucks to save money as soon as next year.

Providing Spurs are ready to say goodbye to the 2010 plan and Bucks are ready to nearly salary dump him, it could be interesting.

A trade like Oberto+Bowen+Thomas+picks for Jefferson would be great for SA.

Re-sign Bowen and put Finley in the trash and Spurs have a great perimeter rotation:

PG : Parker/Hill
SG : Ginobili/Mason
SF : Jefferson/Bowen

After that, you spend the MLE on bigs and :lobt2:
Also, great insight.

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:06 AM
It's only for 2 more years. What do we have to lose? If he doesn't work out we can use his money for the Summer of 2011 and Duncan will still have another year left.
:toast

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:07 AM
Spurs are not going to be in the running for anyone in 2010. If the FO believes they're gonna be players a year from now, dream on. Assuming the FO believes the championship window truly is not closed, the Spurs must act quickly, in order to keep it propped open.

Because of Duncan's limited shelf-life and because there could be a lot of teams looking to move players, the Spurs should become players in the 2009 market. RJ represents a player that is as good as anything they could get in 2010, that fills a direct need.
:king

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:09 AM
U mean 14.6 million?

Like in 03? when we signed Rasho/ Horry/ Anthony Carter/ And traded for Turkoglu and Mercer?


Several other positions?

If we were to trade for him it would take us Oberto/ Bowen/ Mason/Bonner and they would be able to save 4 million dollars by Oberto and Bowen's contract being optional. Once they would cut Bowen I'd resign him. Therefore we would have:

Parker/ Hill
Manu/ Finley/
Richard Jefferson/ Bowen/ Gist
Tim/ Mahimni/ Vet minimum ( Malik Rose/ Melvin Ely)
Free Agent Signing ( Sheed)/ Kurt Thomas

And we would still have our League Level exception to add a wing player like Carney or a big man.

In other words I rather use that 14.6 million on a STUD than use that 14.6 million on 2 more Oberto's and 2 more Udoka's.
:hat

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:11 AM
Tim Duncan: $22.2 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Manu Ginobili: $10.7 million
Richard Jefferson: $14.2 million

TOTAL: $59.7 million :lmao

Everyone can get this idea out of their heads real quick. This team GAVE away a guy they had been fighting like dogs for 5 years to sign over a lousy $3 million and all of a sudden they're going to go with a $70+ million payroll? This thread is nothing more than SpursFan masturbation.
:bang

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:13 AM
Bowen 4.0 million
Oberto 3.5 million
Mason 3.78 million
Bonner 3.24 million
14.52 million

So we are spending 14.52 million on Oberto, Bonner, Bowen, Mason

So you are telling me you rather have these 4 players than Richard Jefferson?

The best of that bunch is Mason and he is about as valuable as Michael Finley since their skills are pretty much identical except for the fact that Mason can dribble the ball up the court better. I'd even have to say Finley is a better defender than Mason :lol.

And with this trade Milwaukee would most likely cut Bowen and Oberto, so we could resign them both for the minimum.

So basically we could be trading Bonner and Mason for Richard Jefferson.

It's not a Spurfan masturbation thread, Milwaukee is in trouble financially and were willing to trade Jefferson to Portland for Lafrentz and a throw in last year at the deadline.

Great points.

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:15 AM
Where is Mel 13???? I told you so Mel lol
:rollin:rollin:rollin

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:15 AM
I said the Spurs could not acquire RJ without exceeding the lux tax or filling out most of the roster with minimum salary players. That remains true. They have apparently decided to exceed the tax. I am happy.
:rolleyes

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:16 AM
Man, I love being wrong there too!
:bking

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:20 AM
Hey I started the thread. Not Bruno. I know Bruno brings out some of the best insight on this board, but give some kudos to the unknown posters every now and then. Geeze

Not that it matters, but be right about the kudos.
:lol

poeticism707
07-11-2009, 03:21 AM
^^ It's going to be be quite the sight seeing LeBron in the silver and black.:smokin
:lol

timtonymanu
02-11-2010, 04:52 AM
now it's a sad day. :depressed

What went wrong with RJ?

venitian navigator
02-11-2010, 05:17 AM
Basically, he's no longer the defnsive player he once was...and he took Bowen's place in our system.
However, differently form others and re-visiting his games, also if I agree he's playing bad, I can't see him as our main problem...our main problem is Rebounding, Shot Blocking, Athleticism...expecially with the strongest teams in the league.
Imho, probably McDyess incapability to be our starting PF has a lot do do with that...Dice can still be a good reserve, but he was taken with the (wrong) idea to be the main solution for our front line...and he obviously is too old for that.
We need to start a young, athletic big...and then use veterans.
At this point, considering their actual skills as for now, Jefferson and Mc Dyess are better suited for being the 6th, 7th man than for being starters...

Bruno
02-11-2010, 05:48 AM
I'm not ready to give up on RJ after a half season. He is a too good player to do so. I still have some hope/patience left with him.

DPG21920
02-05-2011, 03:41 AM
Good thread...

Ditty
12-08-2011, 01:23 AM
:lmao

lol doing a lefty bump

210Max
12-08-2011, 03:23 AM
god damn imagine if we gave up manu for him lol