Free Agent: Charlie Villanueva

[Bruno]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_charlie_villanueva.jpg

Charlie Villanueva | F
Born: Aug 24, 1984
Height: 6-11 / 2,11
Weight: 232 lbs. / 105,2 kg.
College: Connecticut
Years Pro: 3

info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/charlie_villanueva/index.html)

He will be a RFA if Bucks extend a $4.6M QO.

[DPG21920]

Thanks Bruno. To me he is an interesting prospect for the Spurs. He is a much youger, more athletic, better offensive, better rebounding version of Bonner. He has size and skill and seems like the "Horry" replacement type.

[Mel_13]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_charlie_villanueva.jpg

Charlie Villanueva | F
Born: Aug 24, 1984
Height: 6-11 / 2,11
Weight: 232 lbs. / 105,2 kg.
College: Connecticut
Years Pro: 3

info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/charlie_villanueva/index.html)

He will be a RFA if Bucks extend a $4.6M QO.

Bruno,

If you have the time. What would be the limitations/restrictions on a trade for CV before and after they extend the QO. Also, can you do a S&T for a RFA and would that lead to BYC complications. Thanks

[Bruno]

Bruno,

If you have the time. What would be the limitations/restrictions on a trade for CV before and after they extend the QO. Also, can you do a S&T for a RFA and would that lead to BYC complications. Thanks

Bucks must decided to make a QO before July 1st. Between now and July 1st, they aren't allowed to trade or to a S&T with CV.

After July 1st, Spurs can decide to work a S&T with Bucks about CV. The fact that is restricted or unrestricted doesn't change the BYC mechanic.
For CV, if the starting salary of his new contract is above $4.1M, he will be a BYC. When you do a trade with a BYC, it's more complicated to match salaries.

If you want to learn how it works, you can read questions 73 to 75 of Larry Coon CBA FAQ : http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q73

[Mel_13]

Bucks must decided to make a QO before July 1st. Between now and July 1st, they aren't allowed to trade or to a S&T with CV.

After July 1st, Spurs can decide to work a S&T with Bucks about CV. The fact that is restricted or unrestricted doesn't change the BYC mechanic.
For CV, if the starting salary of his new contract is above $4.1M, he will be a BYC. When you do a trade with a BYC, it's more complicated to match salaries.

If you want to learn how it works, you can read questions 73 to 75 of Larry Coon CBA FAQ : http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q73

Thanks for increasing my knowledge of this stuff for about the 89th time.
:toast

[urunobili]

I think he is a gr8 fit for the Spurs

[DPG21920]

I think he is a gr8 fit for the Spurs

Me too. He is like what we wish Bonner was. You can live with his limitations on defense because that is a lot of talent for not a lot of money.

[exstatic]

I think he is a gr8 fit for the Spurs

He's a good guy, but like Gooden has the rep for coasting along at about 85%. That's not really what I consider "Spurs material". He's had two pretty tough defensive minded coaches in Sam Mitchell and Scott Skiles and hasn't put it together in terms of effort.

[Biggems]

I like Chuck V......he has a fire in his belly at times. Usually he seems so happy go lucky out there, but once he gets upset or something, the beast comes out.....and he plays like a man possessed.

I wish we would have included Beno in the Rasho trade.....perhaps we could have gotten Chuck V as well as Bonner.

[Bruno]

Villanueva has a good chance of being unrestricted :

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/bucks/46136062.html


After they sign their first-round draft choice this summer, the Bucks' player payroll will be around $67 million. No one knows for sure what the luxury-tax threshold (based on a formula relating to the league's basketball-related income) will be when it is announced in early July, but media reports have speculated it will be at about $70 million.

In order to maintain the rights to Villanueva, the Bucks will have to present him with a qualifying offer (determined by a formula based on the player's previous salary and where he was drafted) of $4.5 million. Unless the luxury tax turns out to be higher than anticipated, paying Villanueva that kind of money would take the Bucks into tax territory, which means the Bucks would not make him a qualifying offer. Villanueva would then become an unrestricted free agent and would be able to go to any team with no compensation to the Bucks.

[mountainballer]

for the MLE he is at least worth a thought. his offensive production is good, in fact his per minute production is fantastic. of course you could also think about signing Frye, who might be even cheaper. for the same money I would take him over Gooden. just because he seems to be smarter. so there is a chance that he one day starts to play decent team defense. his mobility and range make him intriguing for the Spurs, this for sure.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I would go for it.

[Biggems]

Charlie V plays with a chip on his shoulder, or least he did this year. We need that with our bigs.

[urunobili]

Charlie V>>>> Sheed

[MoSpur]

I have always been a fan of his, but to me he is unconsitent. He shows flashes of just how good he can be, but then there are times where he just sucks.

[DPG21920]

Does anyone know if the Spurs have ever shown interest in CV? If he does not receive a QO I would imagine he would become a much more attractive target. Although, if the Spurs could send out someone in a sign and trade it might be better for the Spurs and the Bucks instead of CV just taking a direct offer.

Maybe something such as: Oberto+Bonner for CV if CV makes about 5M. Then, the Bucks get Bonner to replace the roster spot and Oberto is bought out to save money.

[Bruno]

Does anyone know if the Spurs have ever shown interest in CV? If he does not receive a QO I would imagine he would become a much more attractive target. Although, if the Spurs could send out someone in a sign and trade it might be better for the Spurs and the Bucks instead of CV just taking a direct offer.

Maybe something such as: Oberto+Bonner for CV if CV makes about 5M. Then, the Bucks get Bonner to replace the roster spot and Oberto is bought out to save money.

The reason why Bucks will maybe let him go is that they are in luxury tax trouble for next year.
Adding Bonner and Oberto salary is the exact opposite of Bucks plan.

If they don't make a QO, CV will simply sign with another team as a FA.

[DPG21920]

The reason why Bucks will maybe let him go is that they are in luxury tax trouble for next year.
Adding Bonner and Oberto salary is the exact opposite of Bucks plan.

If they don't make a QO, CV will simply sign with another team as a FA.

I understand that is why they would let him go, but I was saying would it work in my scenario in a S&T to keep them under the Luxury Tax while keeping the roster spots the same?

They are not over the tax with CV's salary now correct? If they have Bonner+Oberto, then buy out Oberto's partially guaranteed contract, that will be less money on the books than now and they fill the void with a body?

Am I correct, or will the trade for Bonner+Oberto's partially guaranteed contract = more than 4M?

[Mel_13]

I understand that is why they would let him go, but I was saying would it work in my scenario in a S&T to keep them under the Luxury Tax while keeping the roster spots the same?

They are not over the tax with CV's salary now correct? If they have Bonner+Oberto, then buy out Oberto's partially guaranteed contract, that will be less money on the books than now and they fill the void with a body?

Am I correct, or will the trade for Bonner+Oberto's partially guaranteed contract = more than 4M?

Right now the Bucks have 9 players under contract (not include CV and Sessions) for about 64M. They have to fill the rest of their roster for about 6M to avoid the tax. Until they tender the QO, they have zero obligations to CV or Sessions.

If they traded for Oberto and Bonner, they would assume Bonner's 3.2M and the 1.9M buyout for Oberto and would effectively be paying 5.1M for one year of Matt Bonner. They would then also only have about 1M left for three players and would have to let Sessions go as well. This scenario is lose-lose for the Bucks.

[benefactor]

He might not be a bad idea as a backup plan if other things that I would like to see happen don't work out(Gortat). I like him better than Gooden.

[DPG21920]

Right now the Bucks have 9 players under contract (not include CV and Sessions) for about 64M. They have to fill the rest of their roster for about 6M to avoid the tax. Until they tender the QO, they have zero obligations to CV or Sessions.

If they traded for Oberto and Bonner, they would assume Bonner's 3.2M and the 1.9M buyout for Oberto and would effectively be paying 5.1M for one year of Matt Bonner. They would then also only have about 1M left for three players and would have to let Sessions go as well. This scenario is lose-lose for the Bucks.

Ah, I see, I was forgetting that the buyout still stayed on the books against the cap.

[Tully365]

I like him and even at the full MLE he is still a good trade asset if he doesn't fit in the system.

[DPG21920]

The more I think about it, the more I want CV. I really hope he does not receive the QO from the Bucks. Even though it looks they won't extend him the offer, I have not seen the Bucks make good decisions and you do not see people let talent like his go for nothing very often.

[DPG21920]

Bruno, would you be happy if the Spurs got CV?

[Bruno]

Bruno, would you be happy if the Spurs got CV?

Yes.
I like CV. He is a damn talented player. I think that playing for a winning team with a great mentality will significantly help him. He is also a good fit to play with Tim (he is mobile and has a perimeter game).

You also had to look at the whole picture. Getting CV makes few sense if he doesn't enter in a whole offseason plan. A plan, where Spurs get CV with the MLE, should also have a trade for a defensive minded SF.

[DPG21920]

Yes.
I like CV. He is a damn talented player. I think that playing for a winning team with a great mentality will significantly help him. He is also a good fit to play with Tim (he is mobile and has a perimeter game).

You also had to look at the whole picture. Getting CV makes few sense if he doesn't enter in a whole offseason plan. A plan, where Spurs get CV with the MLE, should also have a trade for a defensive minded SF.

Well it still makes sense to get talent when you can, even if it comes in phases. Ideally you would like the Spurs to make over all the positions of need at once, but if you can grab a player like CV, then next year get your SF, you will be in good shape going into the 2010 season which still gives you good shot at #5.

[Bruno]

Well it still makes sense to get talent when you can, even if it comes in phases. Ideally you would like the Spurs to make over all the positions of need at once, but if you can grab a player like CV, then next year get your SF, you will be in good shape going into the 2010 season which still gives you good shot at #5.

If you start hurting the 2010 cap space by signing a player like CV, the best choice is to use Spurs expiring contracts' to get player(s).

[DPG21920]

If you start hurting the 2010 cap space by signing a player like CV, the best choice is to use Spurs expiring contracts' to get player(s).

I agree, I am just saying you cannot always get the players you want right away. You cannot make other teams trade with you.

In fact I think trading and getting players now is the best course of action anyways, regardless if the Spurs use the MLE this year or not.

[Bruno]

http://twitter.com/RicBucher/status/2249594152


They're in a tough spot. Need to improve, need to save $. Might have to let Villanueva walk. (SA would snap up.)

There are some rumors that Ersan Ilyasova will go back with Bucks. Add to that Bucks' luxury tax situation and Villanueva will likely play with another team next year.

[bigdog]

Hmmm.....I would not mind CV AT ALL, but if you're going to get him with the MLE, I would rather get a SF (If we don't get one in the draft), or a big man(if there is one available). If not, then we'd have to pull a nice trade out of our asses.

[DPG21920]

It seems between Gist and the draft, there are more SF's than bigs, so grabbing Charlie would be nice.

[DPG21920]

Also, is it safe to say the Spurs will not be making any trades until after July first (unless it is very minor)? It sounds like they want to see who shakes loose in FA.

[lcroock]

The Spurs have to make a trade, otherwise they'll be paying luxury tax. If they stand pat and sign Villenueva and some other cheap contracts they will be over the $69M Luxury Tax threshold ($69M is the current estimate). This is under the assumption that Finley does not retire/opt out. If Oberto is not dealt before July 1 (deadline for his deal being guaranteed) then it's highly doubtful that we'd package him and Bruce later in the summer.

[Blackjack]

http://twitter.com/RicBucher/status/2249594152



There are some rumors that Ersan Ilyasova will go back with Bucks. Add to that Bucks' luxury tax situation and Villanueva will likely play with another team next year.

Interesting...

I'm not sure how I feel about Villanueva, though.

I mean, one part of me says he's just a really talented player who's yet to realize his full potential, and another part of me thinks he's kind of in the Gooden boat.(The talent to entice but a game that doesn't necessarily translate into winning)

I'm not sure the Spurs could really do any better this year, at that position, but I'd be cautious with how much I'd be willing to spend, and for how long.

[DPG21920]

I think you cannot compare Gooden and CV with regards to talent. CV is much more versatile and has a greater range. It is interesting that Ric would mention the Spurs specifically in his tweet.

[Blackjack]

I think you cannot compare Gooden and CV with regards to talent. CV is much more versatile and has a greater range. It is interesting that Ric would mention the Spurs specifically in his tweet.

I'm not comparing them in depth of talent, just in how it translates.

It's not suprising that the Spurs would have interest, he brings youth and some Horry-like skills offensively, but that's only one end of the court.

Again, you're probably not going to find a better talent out there and the price (due to the economy and the upcoming '10 free-agency) might be too tempting to pass up. (I'm just not convinced he's one of those guys that helps to put you over the top and if he's not one of those guys, I'm not sure how you commit significant salary and years.)

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not a fan of Villanueva, but I would take him on this team instantly..while he doesn't put us over the top, there isn't one realistic move that can put us over the top..we're going to need multiple moves, like I've said before..we only need 1 known-name though IMO, and Villanueva would be better than expected..

He's still fairly young too, which means he can still learn and improve..

There would also be no concerns with Pop not playing him, because he plays exactly the way Pop likes the guy next to Duncan, which is all the way to the 3-point line..we were successful most of the year with Bonner as the starter..Villanueva is Bonner with much more talent and swag, with more potential to get better..

[SenorSpur]

Does anyone know if the Spurs have ever shown interest in CV? If he does not receive a QO I would imagine he would become a much more attractive target. Although, if the Spurs could send out someone in a sign and trade it might be better for the Spurs and the Bucks instead of CV just taking a direct offer.

Maybe something such as: Oberto+Bonner for CV if CV makes about 5M. Then, the Bucks get Bonner to replace the roster spot and Oberto is bought out to save money.

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but here is a quick tweet from Ric Bucher Twitter, courtesy of Hoopshype rumor section. Looks like Bucher was answering a question regarding CV and the Bucks current situation.

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

@PantherU They're in a tough spot. Need to improve, need to save $. Might have to let Villanueva walk. (SA would snap up.)

[DPG21920]

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but here is a quick tweet from Ric Bucher Twitter, courtesy of Hoopshype rumor section. Looks like Bucher was answering a question regarding CV and the Bucks current situation.

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

@PantherU They're in a tough spot. Need to improve, need to save $. Might have to let Villanueva walk. (SA would snap up.)

Ya, Bruno posted that. Like I said, it is interesting that he mentioned the Spurs specifically in the tweet. Hopefully a sign of something to come.

[bigdog]

Ya, Bruno posted that. Like I said, it is interesting that he mentioned the Spurs specifically in the tweet. Hopefully a sign of something to come.

Maybe Bucher knows something we don't :hat

[Blackjack]

I'm not a fan of Villanueva, but I would take him on this team instantly..while he doesn't put us over the top, there isn't one realistic move that can put us over the top..we're going to need multiple moves, like I've said before..we only need 1 known-name though IMO, and Villanueva would be better than expected..

He's still fairly young too, which means he can still learn and improve..

There would also be no concerns with Pop not playing him, because he plays exactly the way Pop likes the guy next to Duncan, which is all the way to the 3-point line..we were successful most of the year with Bonner as the starter..Villanueva is Bonner with much more talent and swag, with more potential to get better..

:tu

I've got no problem with him on the Spurs, as long as the price is right.

If he doesn't prevent you from getting the right piece/pieces to go along with his addition or prevent you from having the flexibilty in '10 to get the right piece/pieces, it's a no-brainer.

He'd immediately be the second best big on the roster (just like Drew was on arrival) and he wouldn't likely see his court time vanish (unlike Drew did) because of his ability to play the shooting-4 role that only Bonner's left to play.

Would he be an upgrade?

Absolutely.

Would he be the right upgrade?

There's a lot of moving pieces to this puzzle, and I'm just not sure if he's the right (or one of the right) pieces to complete it.

[SenorSpur]

Does anyone here truly believe that CV is better than Gooden? Sure he's got 3-point range, which, as someone said earlier, will make him a Pop favorite. However, I'd be slightly concerned about his rebounding prowess - or maybe the lack thereof. Whatever the case, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Spurs elected to sign him outright, at a reasonable price. Though I admit, I'd like to see Gooden get another crack.

[DPG21920]

Yes, he has much more talent than Gooden imo. Better ball handler, better shooter with more range and more size. He does not seem to have the low IQ Gooden has.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't mind Gooden either..if he's our big, I don't mind it..like I said in the other thread, we need a few things to go our way this year, but it needs to start with signing a legit big to start next to Tim..

my reasoning for choosing Charlie V over Gooden, like I said, is that Pop would have no choice but to play him..with Gooden, we saw him get benched over Bonner, partly due to Matt's ability to stretch out the floor..

Villanueva can stretch out the floor, and he's just obviously a much more talented player than Bonner..

also, he isn't great defensively, but he's better than Gooden(which doesn't say much, but still should be considered)..he's only 25(IIRC), so he also still has room to learn and improve in a good system, which is something he's never had before..

I don't mind getting Villanueva, Gortat, or Gooden..if we get any of those 3 guys, I'll be happy with our big men going into next year..

[Tully365]

With CV, the best case scenario is that he works out and averages something like 13-15 ppg and 5-7 rpg. The worse case scenario is he gets packaged mid-season with the likes of Mahinmi, Hairston, Bonner, etc., for something else. One of the biggest problems the Spurs have had for a while now is the complete lack of any tradable assets....

I'm really not a big believer in the "2010 plan" anymore. I just don't think any major stars will be headed to S.A., and besides, with the health of Duncan & Manu looking more fragile with every passing year, I just don't know if it's really practical anymore. I'd rather the Spurs take advantage of the fact other teams that are waiting for the 2010 FA bonanza and therefore less willing to act, and give the Big 3 core a more legitimate chance at another title, i.e., a chance that doesn't include Bonner as a starter.

BTW-- I'm not a Bonner hater. I'm just convinced that he is a respectable bench guy, but not an NBA championship level starter.

[benefactor]

I don't mind Gooden either..if he's our big, I don't mind it..like I said in the other thread, we need a few things to go our way this year, but it needs to start with signing a legit big to start next to Tim..

my reasoning for choosing Charlie V over Gooden, like I said, is that Pop would have no choice but to play him..with Gooden, we saw him get benched over Bonner, partly due to Matt's ability to stretch out the floor..

Villanueva can stretch out the floor, and he's just obviously a much more talented player than Bonner..

also, he isn't great defensively, but he's better than Gooden(which doesn't say much, but still should be considered)..he's only 25(IIRC), so he also still has room to learn and improve in a good system, which is something he's never had before..

I don't mind getting Villanueva, Gortat, or Gooden..if we get any of those 3 guys, I'll be happy with our big men going into next year..
Agreed. Any of those players would be a nice step in the right direction for us. CV could actually help us execute the plan that was attempted with Bonner, which is pulling a big out of the paint to respect his shooting.

[HarlemHeat37]

There's really no argument whether or not Bonner is a starter on a title team..he simply isn't..I do believe the guy can be a good 10 MPG player off the bench though, maybe even more sometimes..rotating between him and Kurt, depending on the matchups, can be very solid for our bench..Bonner was shooting lights out from 3 for most of the year, he was one of the best in the NBA..he obviously can't handle the pressure though, which is why he belongs on the bench, where he could be a good asset..

I also am against the "2010 plan", so I'm on your side there..

I don't believe any rumors involving the Spurs though..we see this every year..other teams and agents use the Spurs to help our their player, it's been like this for a few years..when other teams see that the Spurs are interested, they think it must be good..I love when it doesn't work out for those teams though, like Maggette for instance..

[Blackjack]

With CV, the best case scenario is that he works out and averages something like 13-15 ppg and 5-7 rpg. The worse case scenario is he gets packaged mid-season with the likes of Mahinmi, Hairston, Bonner, etc., for something else. One of the biggest problems the Spurs have had for a while now is the complete lack of any tradable assets....

Great point, and one I wholeheartedly agree with.:tu

As long as his contract allows the Spurs and a potential suitor flexibility, it's a win/win.


I'm really not a big believer in the "2010 plan" anymore. I just don't think any major stars will be headed to S.A., and besides, with the health of Duncan & Manu looking more fragile with every passing year, I just don't know if it's really practical anymore. I'd rather the Spurs take advantage of the fact other teams that are waiting for the 2010 FA bonanza and therefore less willing to act, and give the Big 3 core a more legitimate chance at another title, i.e., a chance that doesn't include Bonner as a starter.

Again, I agree.

The Spurs' best chance at landing a star will most likely come via trade, and this current climate will probably be their best opportunity.(I just find it hard to believe that the Spurs won't end up with another Rasho-type acquisition, only in about 2-3 spots, after striking out on the most coveted free-agents.)



Does anyone here truly believe that CV is better than Gooden? Sure he's got 3-point range, which, as someone said earlier, will make him a Pop favorite. However, I'd be slightly concerned about his rebounding prowess - or maybe the lack thereof. Whatever the case, I wouldn't be disappointed if the Spurs elected to sign him outright, at a reasonable price. Though I admit, I'd like to see Gooden get another crack.

Charlie is the more talented player and a better fit offensively, but he's just as bad of a defender as Gooden. (Charlie's pretty light in the ass, so he can get pretty abused in the post.)

Drew's nothing great but at least when his heads in the game, (which isn't nearly as often as it should) he's a pretty decent post-defender. He's strong enough to at least hold his ground, for the most part, and make the offender make a shot over the top. I can't really say the same for Charlie.

Charlie could, and should, be a better defender out on the floor than Drew but I'm not sure that he is. I didn't get a chance to see much of Charlie this year to see if having Skiles as his coach improved his defense, so I'd love to hear someones thoughts who actually did, but he definitely has the tools to be able to show on the pick-and-roll and hedge well for a big. Hopefully, he's made some strides in that area.

Gooden's a better rebounder, post-defender, (not saying much) and, at least at this point, a better post-scorer.(not overall scorer)

Charlie, I'd say has the edge everywhere else.

[tav1]

I called on the Spurs to make a run at CV two years ago, but they acquired Kurt Thomas instead. Since then, I've actually cooled on him as a Spur. But for the right price, he be a good get.

[SenorSpur]

I called on the Spurs to make a run at CV two years ago, but they acquired Kurt Thomas instead. Since then, I've actually cooled on him as a Spur. But for the right price, he be a good get.

...and for that foolish move, the Spurs paid a 1st round draft pick. One which they would so desparately love to have back. I like KT, it's just the Spurs got him waaay to late in his career. CV would've been a better get.

[Vic Petro]

I'm a Big East basketball fan, so I've watched Charlie Villanueva play for a long time. He is a much better help defender than Gooden particularly in the area of shot blocking. Next to Duncan he can really help defend the rim a lot better than Gooden ever could, and that's an area where the team needs to improve greatly. Rasho wasn't great but he helped protect the rim. I can't remember the last time I saw a Spurs team give up as many layups as this year's team did. Not that CV would be a savior there, but he'd help.

He has been an inconsitent player because he is one of those guys that gets bored and zones out if the team is not winning on a consistent basis. If he's on a good team and has "something to play for" (like a fat contract or a legit chance at a title), he can be an absolute beast in this league. His upside is far higher than Drew Gooden. But if the team is not really a title contender, CV is definitely a guy who will take a few nights off.

[mosdef17]

I think the biggest upside to having someone like Charlie V on our team because of his height and athleticism would be his potential in guarding those tricky power forwards on other teams. Players that often give us trouble because they are too unique, players such as Dirk and Odom. Charlie may come off the bench, but late game I would expect to see Parker, Ginobili, ??, Charlie, Duncan.

[mountainballer]

Villanueva can score, but he needs tons of shots and he is a very inefficent scorer. considering he would be the #4 option with the Spurs, this isn't good news. Spurs need role players, who hit the few shots they get. and he's neither a good rebounder, shot blocker or defender. I don't see how this makes the Spurs a better team overall.

[Spurs Brazil]

There is a growing belief around the league that Charlie Villanueva has moved ahead of Hedo Turkoglu on Detroit's wish list.

Chicago's Ben Gordon remains the backcourt player deeply coveted by the Pistons, but the prospect of a Gordon-and-Villanueva combo likely would be slightly cheaper than trying to sign Gordon and Turkoglu with Detroit's nearly $19 million in projected salary-cap space.

So look for the Pistons to take that approach -- barring another shift in focus to a Gordon-and-Paul Millsap combo -- while they also decide between Doug Collins and Avery Johnson as their next coach.

Gordon could receive an offer as soon as Wednesday, after sources confirmed that Gordon will be making a formal visit to Motown right away.

That has established Portland as the most determined Hedo suitor on the market, which the Blazers made clear by reaching out immediately to Turkoglu's agent Lon Babby in the early, early minutes of Wednesday. Besides Detroit, Toronto (which likely would have to get sign-and-trade creative) and Sacramento (which would have to show an unexpected willingness to spend) also continue to be linked with the Magic's outgoing closer.

Did someone say outgoing? Sorry, Magic Kingdom. Despite Dwight Howard's televised pleas Tuesday night for Turkoglu to stay, pretty much no one I've spoken with has been able to manufacture a realistic scenario that enables Orlando to afford keeping him after the financial commitment it took on in trading for Vince Carter.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=Chatter-090701

[Spurs Brazil]

Gordon, Villanueva meeting with Pistons

Chicago Bulls guard Ben Gordon(notes) and Milwaukee Bucks forward Charlie Villanueva(notes) flew to Detroit on Wednesday morning for a mid-day meeting with team president Joe Dumars and indications are both are moving rapidly toward deals with the Detroit Pistons, league and sources close to the two players told Yahoo! Sports.

Gordon and Villanueva, both unrestricted free agents, would be significant strikes on the first full day of NBA free agency.

Gordon and Villanueva have history together, and are good friends. They played for the University of Connecticut, although never together. The Pistons have nearly $20 million in salary-cap space and it’s thought that the offers to these two players would come close to expending that money.

Gordon, who scored 20 points a game last season, turned down a $54 million Bulls extension as a restricted free agent last summer.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjMy1RVsi6zRicc164w3_Ng5nYcB?slug=aw-gordonvillanueva070109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Spurs Brazil]

Gordon, Villanueva meeting with Pistons

Chicago Bulls guard Ben Gordon(notes) and Milwaukee Bucks forward Charlie Villanueva(notes) flew to Detroit on Wednesday morning for a mid-day meeting with team president Joe Dumars and indications are both are moving rapidly toward deals with the Detroit Pistons, league and sources close to the two players told Yahoo! Sports.

Gordon and Villanueva, both unrestricted free agents, would be significant strikes on the first full day of NBA free agency.

Gordon and Villanueva have history together, and are good friends. They played for the University of Connecticut, although never together. The Pistons have nearly $20 million in salary-cap space and it’s thought that the offers to these two players would come close to expending that money.

Gordon, who scored 20 points a game last season, turned down a $54 million Bulls extension as a restricted free agent last summer.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjMy1RVsi6zRicc164w3_Ng5nYcB?slug=aw-gordonvillanueva070109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[mountainballer]

I can see why the Pistons want Gordon, but Charlie V? they have a long SF, who can play some PF either, they just drafted Daye, Summers and Jerebko, 3 combo forwards and then they try to add Villanueva????
I mean, yes, many experts call this type of versatile forward the future of the NBA, but I don't think this means to play them at all 5 positions.

[Mel_13]

Person with knowledge of deal: Piston agree to deals with Gordon and Villanueva

Villanueva, the seventh overall pick by Toronto in 2006 who has played all three of his NBA season with the Milwaukee Bucks, also agreed to a five-year deal. His contract is worth at least $35 million.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/wire/sns-ap-bkn-pistons-signings,0,2561066.story

[Slinkyman]

Maybe with Villanueva getting just 7 million per year other players that are alot less talented players will realize they're not getting nor are they worth the full MLE.

[timvp]

Yeah, this deal sets the bar at a reasonable place. If Villanueva is getting 5 years and $35 million, that could knock players like Pachulia and Gooden under the MLE.

[SPURSGOAT]

ESPN is reporting this a done deal too...http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301111

[manustarting2gd]

No brows signs with pisstons

[benefactor]

Defense...you has none.

[4RINGS]

The Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) made the biggest early splash in free agency on Wednesday, agreeing to terms with Ben Gordon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2381) and Charlie Villanueva (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792).


http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3820.jpg Gordon

http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/2792.jpg
Villanueva

Former Bulls guard Gordon will receive a five-year, $55 million deal, while former Bucks forward Villanueva gets a five-year deal for $35 million, sources told ESPN.com's Chris Broussard.
Gordon rejected deals from Chicago in excess of $50 million each of the past two seasons.
The Associated Press first reported the Villanueva signing.
Free agents can't officially sign with new teams until July 8.
Gordon, who was taken third in the 2004 draft by Chicago, led the Bulls in scoring each of the past four seasons. He averaged 20.4 points per game on 45.5 percent shooting last year. For his career, he has a 21.3 points per game average.
Villanueva, the seventh overall pick by Toronto in 2006 who has played the past three seasons with the Bucks, averaged 16.2 points and 6.7 rebounds per game last season.

The Pistons now turn their attention to re-signing forward Antonio McDyess (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=530), but they'll have competition from the Cavaliers, Celtics and Spurs.
Chris Broussard covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301111

[Kindergarten Cop]

Do you think the additions that the Pistons have made improve the chances that McDyess stays in Detroit? IMHO, they have put themselves back into the top 4-5 teams in the East and he has already stated that he would rather not uproot his family. It appears that Detroit wants him back, but do the new additions improve the chances that the feeling is mutual?

[Spurs Brazil]

That was too quick.

Now they can go after McDyess

[wisnub]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_charlie_villanueva.jpg

Charlie Villanueva | F
Born: Aug 24, 1984
Height: 6-11 / 2,11
Weight: 232 lbs. / 105,2 kg.
College: Connecticut
Years Pro: 3

info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/charlie_villanueva/index.html)

He will be a RFA if Bucks extend a $4.6M QO.


I've seen him played since his college days when he was playing with Huskies. He bring energy,got rebound, blocking and explosive plays in Connecticut back in the days..he also young and got plenty energy to dispose in Spurs uniforms. I think its better than Sheed..although if I were in playoffs now I will choose Sheed over him. He's young and he is still developing. He need Spurs coaching to be able to oeprate at his best. I wouldnt mind spending MLE on him. By the way, can we somehow bring Gist from Italy? LLE what its worth?

[raspsa]

Just saw his pic.. amazing, he really doesn't have any eyebrows!

[DAF86]

The Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) made the biggest early splash in free agency on Wednesday, agreeing to terms with Ben Gordon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2381) and Charlie Villanueva (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792).


http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3820.jpg Gordon

http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/2792.jpg
Villanueva

Former Bulls guard Gordon will receive a five-year, $55 million deal, while former Bucks forward Villanueva gets a five-year deal for $35 million, sources told ESPN.com's Chris Broussard.
Gordon rejected deals from Chicago in excess of $50 million each of the past two seasons.
The Associated Press first reported the Villanueva signing.
Free agents can't officially sign with new teams until July 8.
Gordon, who was taken third in the 2004 draft by Chicago, led the Bulls in scoring each of the past four seasons. He averaged 20.4 points per game on 45.5 percent shooting last year. For his career, he has a 21.3 points per game average.
Villanueva, the seventh overall pick by Toronto in 2006 who has played the past three seasons with the Bucks, averaged 16.2 points and 6.7 rebounds per game last season.

The Pistons now turn their attention to re-signing forward Antonio McDyess (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=530), but they'll have competition from the Cavaliers, Celtics and Spurs.
Chris Broussard covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301111

I would never want to have Ben Gordon on my team, unless it is for a Steve Kerr in 03 role, but that's not worth 55 mil over 5 years. I don't like what Dumars did.

[ploto]

Just saw his pic.. amazing, he really doesn't have any eyebrows!

Do you know that he has alopecia?

[ploto]

Yeah, this deal sets the bar at a reasonable place. If Villanueva is getting 5 years and $35 million, that could knock players like Pachulia and Gooden under the MLE.

Another article said 5 years $40M.


The Detroit Pistons made the biggest early splash in free agency on Wednesday, agreeing to terms with Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.

Former Bulls guard Gordon will receive a five-year, $55 million deal, while former Bucks forward Villanueva gets a five-year deal for $40 million, sources told ESPN.com's Chris Broussard.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301111

[Tully365]

With these two signings, the Pistons still have a lower than average payroll. Some reports say they will turn their attention now to resigning Dice.

I almost forgot that Gordon and CV were teammates on that championship team at UConn.

[hsxvvd]

Charlie's giving away free tickets to NBA games.

He's having a Tweet Battle with Chris Bosh, first to get 50k followers get to make the other do a youtube video of the others choice.

Both are spending a lot of time recruiting (probably should spend some more time training?) but I'd personally rather see Charlie win.

So follow CV31 http://twitter.com/CV31

"5 followers will get 2 tickets to a NBA game, which ever city you are from, so Detroit and the city your from game, spread the word"

[hsxvvd]

It's for charity now.... CV31 donating shoes

RETWT THIS: So for every new follower I'll donate a new pair of shoes to needy children, that's 3172 happy kids :) http://tinyurl.com/mogzq7

[jdev82]

Noooooo
as a milwaukeean and a bucks fan second I've seen this selfsh bastard far to much. I know what he brings, and it's not worth the pain.

[exstatic]

Noooooo
as a milwaukeean and a bucks fan second I've seen this selfsh bastard far to much. I know what he brings, and it's not worth the pain.

Dude? Take a chill pill. He agreed to terms with Detroit on 1 July, and signed on signing day. Look one post above yours. It's a link to a charitable Twitter competition. Not the best "re-use" of a thread, I'll admit...

[hsxvvd]

Dude? Take a chill pill. He agreed to terms with Detroit on 1 July, and signed on signing day. Look one post above yours. It's a link to a charitable Twitter competition. Not the best "re-use" of a thread, I'll admit...

Didn't think it warranted it's own thread... my bad.