General Trades Discussion

[Baam]

How is Hayward a pipe dream for anyone with room to give him the max...

[Richie]

Seems like this move gives them a shot at two middle tier free agents rather than just one.

I've been saying Deng to the Hawks for ages, makes perfect sense and I think it makes them the 2nd best team in the East. With Horford coming back its like signing two all stars.

[Baam]

Hm with Bud being the 3pt fanatic that he is, I think Ariza is much more likely than Deng...

[Mel_13]

How is Hayward a pipe dream for anyone with room to give him the max...

He's a restricted free agent and Utah will match any offer sheet. Any team signing Hayward to an offer sheet accomplishes nothing except to tie up a huge chunk of cap space for 72 hours.

[Drom John]

From Peachtree Hoops
Hawks opened $6,918,900 in cap room with this trade and the best guess was the Hawks would go after two biggish names.
Supposedly the Hawks first target is Luol Deng.
Also, supposedly the Hawks think Nogueira and Tavares are fungible.

[Drom John]

Speaking of Salmons, in the 2002 draft the Spurs selected Salmons at #26, Scola at #55 and Holcomb at #56.
By win shares Scola has been the 9th best pick, Salmons the #11 best pick and Holcomb the #53 best pick.

On draft day, we traded Salmons and Holcomb for Speedy Claxton.
In 2007 we traded Scola and Butler for Spanoulis and De Colo.

[biskvito]

Bebe was very immature and cocky when was young. Maybe that hasn't changed.

Hawks are definitely selling him low here. They give up a young Center, former 1st round pick to save what ? 4m ?

this realgm post sums up a few events

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40295036#p40295036

[elemento]

this realgm post sums up a few events

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40295036#p40295036

Good find :tu

[Godbama]

Rumors that the Pacers are trying to move Roy Hibbert, now at his lowest value...could Hibbert be had now? I think it'd be a great move, what with his friendship/workouts with Timmy and his immense potential, sure he had a breakdown that has (luckily) hurt his trade value but if anyone could fix him and turn him into the force of nature he's shown glimpses of then it's the Spurs and Timmy.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Rumors that the Pacers are trying to move Roy Hibbert, now at his lowest value...could Hibbert be had now? I think it'd be a great move, what with his friendship/workouts with Timmy and his immense potential, sure he had a breakdown that has (luckily) hurt his trade value but if anyone could fix him and turn him into the force of nature he's shown glimpses of then it's the Spurs and Timmy.

i think that's too big of a move. I like Splitter, Baynes, Diaw.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Rumors that the Pacers are trying to move Roy Hibbert, now at his lowest value...could Hibbert be had now? I think it'd be a great move, what with his friendship/workouts with Timmy and his immense potential, sure he had a breakdown that has (luckily) hurt his trade value but if anyone could fix him and turn him into the force of nature he's shown glimpses of then it's the Spurs and Timmy.

If the pacers are willing to dump him for Ayers and a 1st, maybe.

[dochay]

So. Just as a curiosity. Is the scenario in the NBA that you can sign your own free agents even if you are over the cap?
I wonder because let's say that the Spurs hadn't inked the deals on Diaw and Mills could they potentially take on a Hibbert contract, fill in a backup small forward and then sign them? Say they trade a few contracts (Ayers, Bellini, Daye) to like Detroit for instance, Detroit sends Josh Smith to Indiana and the Spurs get Hibbert.
Then they still have the MLE and Bi annual to work with?

Just curious on if this is a possibility with the rules the way they are. Not thinking Detroit or Indiana would do this or that is has a possibility to be a reality.

[Baam]

487893270295371776

I always said that Capela had no intention of staying in Europe...

[FireMicoHalili]

If anyone's wondering, YES I spent a few minutes of my life trying to find landing spots for scrubby Ayres:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=obrgs5r
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l6lbheg
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=olbrmu3
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n3jaysm
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n2om7sw

[DrunkTXLabrat]

If anyone's wondering, YES I spent a few minutes of my life trying to find landing spots for scrubby Ayres:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=obrgs5r
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l6lbheg
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=olbrmu3
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n3jaysm
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n2om7sw

i really like that Harkless one. I've been preaching Siva like crazy, but i like that Austin Rivers one too.

[Chinook]

Apparently, the Spurs could probably have moved Jeff for Austin Rivers, since the Pels couldn't pay a team to take him. Dunno how I would have felt about an Ayres/second for Rivers swap. He'd fill a need, but he's not worth his contract, especially in 2015.

[FireMicoHalili]

More Ayres trades:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mb9s2zg
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mtpk2fp
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ox9fqkc
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=q5zsb2g
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l7l5mp5

[FireMicoHalili]

LAST:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m5bn2nk

[Mel_13]

LAST:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m5bn2nk

That's the one I came here to suggest.

[Richie]

That's the one I came here to suggest.

No thanks, Mbah a Moute's shooting makes him unplayable in the playoffs. I'd rather waive Ayres and Daye and sign Marion for the a year at the MLE

[Mel_13]

No thanks, Mbah a Moute's shooting makes him unplayable in the playoffs. I'd rather waive Ayres and Daye and sign Marion for the a year at the MLE

I'd rather have Marion for a year at the MLE as well. I'm not sure what that has to do with the conversation about possible targets for an Ayres/Daye trade.

[Baam]

I really like Austin Rivers idea, don't think the Pelicans would go for Dayres tho...

[FireMicoHalili]

No thanks, Mbah a Moute's shooting makes him unplayable in the playoffs. I'd rather waive Ayres and Daye and sign Marion for the a year at the MLE
Well...this swap is exchanging two players that marginally or never played in the playoffs, so I don't think there would be a problem.

[FireMicoHalili]

Just in case you're browsing: hi Project Spurs staff your website sucks. You're the Jeff Ayres of Spurs fansites. Please don't exist. Thanks.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I really like Austin Rivers idea, don't think the Pelicans would go for Dayres tho...

lol! i don't know how to set the picture like you did. I want to use Morello!

Siva is my "guy in the sweater" Mills injury dream signing. I liked what i saw from Cotton. But Rivers is also a very intriguing "sweater guy" signing.

[Chinook]

So the Clips had to pay the Bucks a first so they would take Dudley's contract off their hands. I wondering if the people here would have been willing to do a Dudley/first for Ayres/Daye swap.

On one hand, the Spurs would be adding 2015 salary, which isn't a good thing at all. But on the other hand, that 2017 Clips pick is likely to be decent, since that team is salary locked despite having some major flaws. I could see the being a seventh-seed type of team by then. Also, Dudley would probably gain his value back in the Spurs' system, enough so that he would either exercise his ETO next June or be very tradeable. Finally, Dudley would provide some decent depth at small-forward, which is still a weak spot on the team, and would also allow for potential Beli deals if the Spurs decided to go in that direction.

I'd've considered it, honestly. I see little downside and a lot of potential upside.

[Seventyniner]

So the Clips had to pay the Bucks a first so they would take Dudley's contract off their hands. I wondering if the people here would have been willing to do a Dudley/first for Ayres/Daye swap.

On one hand, the Spurs would be adding 2015 salary, which isn't a good thing at all. But on the other hand, that 2017 Clips pick is likely to be decent, since that team is salary locked despite having some major flaws. I could see the being a seventh-seed type of team by then. Also, Dudley would probably gain his value back in the Spurs' system, enough so that he would either exercise his ETO next June or be very tradeable. Finally, Dudley would provide some decent depth at small-forward, which is still a weak spot on the team, and would also allow for potential Beli deals if the Spurs decided to go in that direction.

I'd've considered it, honestly. I see little downside and a lot of potential upside.

I take it that it would be a salary dump on the part of the Bucks. Why would they give up the pick? They seem to be in the asset-accumulating mode like other tankers and the Ayers/Daye pu pu platter isn't nearly enticing enough to lose the pick.

It would be good for the Spurs, both in getting a supposedly capable backup SF and that the Spurs are extraordinarily good with late first-round picks. It comes with the opportunity cost of not being able to package Beli along with Ayers and Daye for a bigger salary. I don't see the Spurs trading Beli unless it's a slam dunk, though.

[Chinook]

I take it that it would be a salary dump on the part of the Bucks. Why would they give up the pick? They seem to be in the asset-accumulating mode like other tankers and the Ayers/Daye pu pu platter isn't nearly enticing enough to lose the pick.

It would be good for the Spurs, both in getting a supposedly capable backup SF and that the Spurs are extraordinarily good with late first-round picks. It comes with the opportunity cost of not being able to package Beli along with Ayers and Daye for a bigger salary. I don't see the Spurs trading Beli unless it's a slam dunk, though.

The idea was an alternate-reality trade with LA rather than a possible trade with Milwaukee.

[Seventyniner]

The idea was an alternate-reality trade with LA rather than a possible trade with Milwaukee.

I see. I wonder if the Clips, or even the Spurs, are the type of team who would never trade with a rival when both teams have championship aspirations.

[Chinook]

I see. I wonder if the Clips, or even the Spurs, are the type of team who would never trade with a rival when both teams have championship aspirations.

I was mentioning in the NBA Forum that there seemed to be much better candidates out there for this trade than the Bucks. Some team would have not had to send back any salary. Some had such poor wing depth that they may not have required a first-round pick back. It's just very strange all around that Los Angeles did THIS deal, unless insurance would indeed cover Delfino's entire salary.

[Seventyniner]

I was mentioning in the NBA Forum that there seemed to be much better candidates out there for this trade than the Bucks. Some team would have not had to send back any salary. Some had such poor wing depth that they may not have required a first-round pick back. It's just very strange all around that Los Angeles did THIS deal, unless insurance would indeed cover Delfino's entire salary.

Is injury insurance negotiated on an individual basis? I saw a graphic on ESPN just after the Paul George injury saying that his contact was only 50% insured, and I wondered if that was league standard.

[Chinook]

Is injury insurance negotiated on an individual basis? I saw a graphic on ESPN just after the Paul George injury saying that his contact was only 50% insured, and I wondered if that was league standard.

Insurance is a league thing. From what I recall, the insurer gets a 41-game deductible before they start paying. So either they will pay all of the remaining George salary, or they'll end up only paying a quarter of it (half of 41 games worth). Delfino should have already passed his deductible phase, so if he's insured, the insurer will pay LA immediately (whether that's all or half).

However, ElNono points out that Mikwaukee signed Delfino when he was already injured. So he may not be insured at all.

[Seventyniner]

Insurance is a league thing. From what I recall, the insurer gets a 41-game deductible before they start paying. So either they will pay all of the remaining George salary, or they'll end up only paying a quarter of it (half of 41 games worth). Delfino should have already passed his deductible phase, so if he's insured, the insurer will pay LA immediately (whether that's all or half).

However, ElNono points out that Mikwaukee signed Delfino when he was already injured. So he may not be insured at all.

I guess Ballmer isn't Prokhorov West after all.

[Chinook]

I guess Ballmer isn't Prokhorov West after all.

We don't know. The Clips are hard-capped this season, so he couldn't spend more if he wanted to.

[Seventyniner]

We don't know. The Clips are hard-capped this season, so he couldn't spend more if he wanted to.

But to perhaps trade a 1st for insurance money...that's a non-cap decision.

[Chinook]

How would folks feel about this trade idea:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyxq4nr

The deal is Martin and Dieng for Ayres, Beli, a first-rounder and maybe the rights to a non-LJC or Bertans prospect.

Seems far-fetched, because Minny is giving better players, including Dieng, who looks like a great center prospect. But the Spurs would be eating more than $20 Million over the next three years, and one or two assets should be more than enough to off-set the talent disparity in light of that.

If the Wolves insist, then Turiaf could be substituted for Dieng. But in that case, Daye would have to be added, and I wouldn't want the team to give up a pick. Such a deal essentially closes the cap-space route next summer, so the team can't afford to give up picks for nothing.

[Baam]

Would do it even without Dieng.

[jyra]

Dieng is playing really well at the World Cup, averaging over 20/10. He just led Senegal to a historic win over Croatia.

[Chinook]

Yeah. Dieng isn't going anywhere, although he probably should, because Minny will find some way to ruin his career.

[Richie]

How would folks feel about this trade idea:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyxq4nr

The deal is Martin and Dieng for Ayres, Beli, a first-rounder and maybe the rights to a non-LJC or Bertans prospect.

Seems far-fetched, because Minny is giving better players, including Dieng, who looks like a great center prospect. But the Spurs would be eating more than $20 Million over the next three years, and one or two assets should be more than enough to off-set the talent disparity in light of that.

If the Wolves insist, then Turiaf could be substituted for Dieng. But in that case, Daye would have to be added, and I wouldn't want the team to give up a pick. Such a deal essentially closes the cap-space route next summer, so the team can't afford to give up picks for nothing.

No way Minni gives up Dieng to dump Martin, even with a first round pick added on.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i'm not a huge martin fan, but scoring dieng would be epic.

[elemento]

How would folks feel about this trade idea:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyxq4nr

The deal is Martin and Dieng for Ayres, Beli, a first-rounder and maybe the rights to a non-LJC or Bertans prospect.

Seems far-fetched, because Minny is giving better players, including Dieng, who looks like a great center prospect. But the Spurs would be eating more than $20 Million over the next three years, and one or two assets should be more than enough to off-set the talent disparity in light of that.

If the Wolves insist, then Turiaf could be substituted for Dieng. But in that case, Daye would have to be added, and I wouldn't want the team to give up a pick. Such a deal essentially closes the cap-space route next summer, so the team can't afford to give up picks for nothing.

Easily, but Minny would never add Dieng. In the last 20 games of the season, he started plenty of games and he was averaging 12 ppg / 11 rpg @ 57%TS as a rookie.

He is a very good prospect. I don't see Minny letting him go. Now that Love is gone, I am sure that they'd rather trade Pekovic instead of Dieng.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Eric Bledsoe isn't drawing near as much buzz as i think he should. I think he would make an interesting addition for the Spurs.

[FlAVaK]

Eric Bledsoe isn't drawing near as much buzz as i think he should. I think he would make an interesting addition for the Spurs.

Kind of a fail post...

AP Source: Suns, Bledsoe making progress in talks (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-suns-bledsoe-making-progress-talks-042425752--nba.html)

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Kind of a fail post...

AP Source: Suns, Bledsoe making progress in talks (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-suns-bledsoe-making-progress-talks-042425752--nba.html)

not at all. I'm saying i think Bledsoe shoulda been one of the hottest free agents this summer. He's barely made a blip on the radar, his own team seems to hardly want him back. If he can have a healthy season, all the talking heads will be hyping how much of a bargain he is.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

and speaking of suns trade possibilities. the spurs missed out on Bogdan Bogdanovic. If a Baynes sign and trade deal goes down, i'd like to see it include the rights to Bogdan.

[Mel_13]

not at all. I'm saying i think Bledsoe shoulda been one of the hottest free agents this summer. He's barely made a blip on the radar, his own team seems to hardly want him back. If he can have a healthy season, all the talking heads will be hyping how much of a bargain he is.

The Suns offered him 4yrs/48M, so they clearly want him back. He turned it down and made it known that he's seeking the max. That's why he attracted little interest from the rest of the league.

It's also why he makes no sense as a trade target for the Spurs. They're not making Bledsoe the highest paid player on the team and they're not giving up the assets that they'd be required to part with to make a trade work.


and speaking of suns trade possibilities. the spurs missed out on Bogdan Bogdanovic. If a Baynes sign and trade deal goes down, i'd like to see it include the rights to Bogdan.

No way that Baynes brings back the rights to a first round pick in a S&T. At best, they get the sort of return they got for Nando, a small TE and a protected second round pick or a fringe NBA player.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i think Baynes value now is higher than De Colo's value at the time of the Daye trade. De Colo was a little younger, with about the same amount of faith from Pop, but not the time under the system and ring that Baynes has. So Baynes is worth something like a 1st round, young guy with potential and question marks. Bogdan is a 1st round young guy with potential, who isn't nba ready. Or at least, isn't Suns basketball ready.

i think a sign and trade Baynes deal for Bogdan is more plausible than you realize.

[Mel_13]

Not at all plausible. Baynes is a fringe NBA player himself, thus his current dilemma.

[Chinook]

How would folks feel about trying to acquire one of New York's bad contracts for a pick (2018 or swap in 2015)? As far as I can see, the only "bad" contracts they have on the books after this season are Calderon and Smith. Both deals are for about the same APY, though Jose's has an extra year pinned on. Both could be acquired for only Beli's and Ayres' contracts. They idea behind picking up either would be that the Spurs sell their potential cap space now instead of gambling next summer. They would still have enough room to offer a very good contract (starting at more than $10 Million probably), just not a max deal. Either deal would expire by the next cap window in 2017, so neither affects that plan.

I think I'd definitely do a the trade for Calderon and a lottery-protected first-swap. Jose has his problems, but he's a great shooter and a decent distributor. He's a bigish PG, so he could probably play the two in Beli's place while really being able to take some of the load off Manu (which Beli was projected to do but really couldn't). He'd also provide the depth at PG the team needs. He could start for Parker when Tony rests, which would allow the Spurs to sub in Anderson as the backup three and give Manu his current spot back. There'd be no need for Cotton, either.

The first problem I see is that he, Mills/Joseph and Manu would be undersized on the perimeter. But them coming off the bench would hopefully mitigate that. And Calderon and Ellis made it work last season for Dallas. Manu would be tasked with defending small-forwards, though. While he's capable or doing it, I don't know if it's something Pop would want him doing night in and night out. The bigger problem is that I'm not sure Jackson wants to trade Calderon, and I am even less sure that he'd be willing to send Jose to the Spurs for anything other than a lopsided offer in their favor. While the old Knick brass would probably attach a pick to Calderon in a heartbeat, I feel that Phil is too smart to dump a pick that'll likely be in the teens just for the chance to have more money in free agency. I could accept a trade in which NY dumped in a smaller asset than a first (Early, seconds or whatever they can get for redirecting Shumpert).

Not much to say on a Smith trade. I'd need the swap to want to make that trade. I also don't see him being dealt, as his deal expires in 2016 when all the good FAs are going to be available. Obviously, if Smith played up to his potential and kept his head on straight, he'd actually be a strong fit in SA. But that ship has sailed at this point, and I think it would be likelier for JR to get DNPs. In short, I just don't see it happening.

tl;dr: The underlined part is what's important. The rest is just pros and cons.

[Chinook]

and speaking of suns trade possibilities. the spurs missed out on Bogdan Bogdanovic. If a Baynes sign and trade deal goes down, i'd like to see it include the rights to Bogdan.

The irony of this is that if I had had my druthers, the Spurs would have owned the pick the Suns used on Bogdanovic. I wanted the team to trade Bonner's partially guaranteed deal to Indiana for Gerald Green and either Plumlee or the Pacers' first. They ended up dumping both in the Scola trade, which I'd imagine they'd really like to undo right now. The Spurs would have had a bona fide back up to Kawhi while also having a decent prospect. I'd personally prefer Plumlee to Bogdan, but either would have been better than spending money on Beli/Ayres.

I guess it's hard to complain about last off-season when Beli provided key minutes in the regular season, Ayres filled in for injured bigs and Bonner made a difference in the WCF. But from a talent standpoint, the team really missed out on that opportunity.

[Uriel]

I'm curious to learn whether RC Buford would'vr drafted Bogdan Bogdanovic if he had been availability instead of Kyle Anderson with the 30th pick of the first round.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I'm curious to learn whether RC Buford would'vr drafted Bogdan Bogdanovic if he had been availability instead of Kyle Anderson with the 30th pick of the first round.

if you can find out, i bet you 5$ he says he would have.

[ace3g]

big trade...

Chris Haynes @ChrisBHaynes
(https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes)Can confirm Cavs to acquire Keith Bogans from Boston in exchange for Erik Murphy, Malcolm Thomas, John Lucas. @ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/) first.


Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Sources say Cavs are expected to package their three non-guaranteed deals (Erik Murphy, John Lucas and Malcolm Thomas) in trade for KBogans

[Uriel]

Why would the Cavs be interested in acquiring the Centerpiece? :lol

[Chinook]

Why would the Cavs be interested in acquiring the Centerpiece? :lol

He may well start for the Cavs next season, since they need someone who can at least pretend to be a three-and-D player. However, I think they want his contract more than anything. He has a dust-chip deal this season and next, which means that the Cavs can use him to acquire players from teams who don't want to take on salary. With Keith and Brendan on the roster, Cleveland now has the ability to take back a max player next summer if they so desire.

[Andthentherewas21]

He may well start for the Cavs next season, since they need someone who can at least pretend to be a three-and-D player. However, I think they want his contract more than anything. He has a dust-chip deal this season and next, which means that the Cavs can use him to acquire players from teams who don't want to take on salary. With Keith and Brendan on the roster, Cleveland now has the ability to take back a max player next summer if they so desire.

I think this could be a prelude to a Dion Waiters or Tristan Thompson trade mid-season. Any team that would want cap relief (which is what Bogans/Haywood are at this point) could just as easily trade with Philly in exchange for a 2nd. But if someone like Brooklyn decides to blow it up, Waiters/Thompson + Haywood for B. Lopez might make sense.

[exstatic]

Why would the Cavs be interested in acquiring the Centerpiece? :lol

Both he and Brenda Haywood are non-guaranteed next season, for a total of $16M. That's one hell of a deadline/summer trade chip.

[szkorhetz]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235150/Rockets-Parting-With-Robert-Covington

I really like Covington and I believe he would be a good 3&D player with athleticism. I know we can't really offer much for Houston, but still..

[Andthentherewas21]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235150/Rockets-Parting-With-Robert-Covington

I really like Covington and I believe he would be a good 3&D player with athleticism. I know we can't really offer much for Houston, but still..

They don't need to offer anything to Houston, the article says they are going to release him either way. However given the Spurs don't have a roster spot open, and the fact he is a tweener forward that doesn't have the speed to guard SFs in the NBA means that its unlikely they go after him, especially with Daye on the roster. Maybe a D-league contract but unlikely to ever get called up.

[ace3g]

Sources: Timberwolves shopping forward Chase Budinger
By Adrian Wojnarowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/author/adrian-wojnarowski/) 4 hours ago Yahoo Sports

(http://sports.yahoo.com/)




The Minnesota Timberwolves (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/min/) are shopping forward Chase Budinger in trade talks, league sources told Yahoo Sports. Among talks with several teams, the Detroit Pistons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/det/) and Houston Rockets (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/hou/) have shown an interest, league sources said.

[Chinook]

Don't care about Chase. Can't believe Minny traded the 15th pick for him a couple of years ago.

[Baam]

Maybe I'm crazy but could the explanation for Beli playing so many minutes in preseason be that they're actively showcasing him :toast? If so what kind of dumb GM would go for it?

[exstatic]

Maybe I'm crazy but could the explanation for Beli playing so many minutes in preseason be that they're actively showcasing him :toast? If so what kind of dumb GM would go for it?

Uh, Kawhi's out and Manu's sucking.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

how much would it take to steal kg from brooklyn? i think the spurs would be an excellent place for him. He could win a ring, or at least be among ring winners. He shouldn't mind strictly monitored minutes. His mentor capabilities would be appreciated. He's still got some game. he's kinda a bargain pau gasol.

[Baam]

how much would it take to steal kg from brooklyn? i think the spurs would be an excellent place for him. He could win a ring, or at least be among ring winners. He shouldn't mind strictly monitored minutes. His mentor capabilities would be appreciated. He's still got some game. he's kinda a bargain pau gasol.

I love the fit on paper especially with the frontline being the thinest position on the roster... But there's so many reasons that make it almost impossible : Duncan putting his veto, Brooklyn being in win now mode by default, and the fact that the Spurs don't have the pieces to take back that much salary...

The tradable assets are Beli and Mills and picks imo, the other scrubs can be used as filler...

Looking around I don't see many options tbh, guys that are not good enough don't have a chance to crack the rotation, guys that are good enough like KG have salaries that are too big...

But imo there's one intriguing option out there to reinforce the frontline, someone who has a lot of experience playing next to Boris, who has a small expiring salary : Alexis Ajinça who is the odd man out of the Pelicans frontline tbh...

Something like : Ajinça + Salmons + second rounder for Beli + Ayres (or Baynes)

They won't do it tho, they don't have the balls to trade Beli imo...

[exstatic]

how much would it take to steal kg from brooklyn? i think the spurs would be an excellent place for him. He could win a ring, or at least be among ring winners. He shouldn't mind strictly monitored minutes. His mentor capabilities would be appreciated. He's still got some game. he's kinda a bargain pau gasol.

You need to understand two things.
1) Tim fucking HATES KG.
2) KG has no more game left than David Robinson. He just looked sad last year. Honestly, KG at the minimum isn't even a good fit.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

You need to understand two things.
1) Tim fucking HATES KG.
2) KG has no more game left than David Robinson. He just looked sad last year. Honestly, KG at the minimum isn't even a good fit.

i understand 1, and i forgot. so good point there, but i'm not so sure about 2. I think KG's sad year was more ugly team situation and less ugly player deterioration.

how about prince? i've been noticing, through fantasy league diligence, that prince might be an easy dump for the grizz. He would surely have a few pointers for kawhi, and generally be that much more championship caliber mentor-ship on the roster. as much as i hate the idea of a bargain player taking up Anderson development time, prince would be a hell of a bargain player.

[exstatic]

i understand 1, and i forgot. so good point there, but i'm not so sure about 2. I think KG's sad year was more ugly team situation and less ugly player deterioration.

how about prince? i've been noticing, through fantasy league diligence, that prince might be an easy dump for the grizz. He would surely have a few pointers for kawhi, and generally be that much more championship caliber mentor-ship on the roster. as much as i hate the idea of a bargain player taking up Anderson development time, prince would be a hell of a bargain player.

You really need to fall OUT of love with supporting players way on the wrong side of 30. The Spurs have. The last new rotation player of that type that was signed to the team was Dice in 2009.

[Baam]

Boris was over 30, I don't think it's that clear cut even tho there's a clear focus on upside... But the bottom line is value...

I was checking Mirotic stats and he went from 28min to 5min in 5 games : http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6459/nikola-mirotic

Could be interesting if the trend continues...

I think the Spurs should look very hard at bigs, especially 4th bigs who are the odd man out of their team like Ajinça and Mirotic... The problem is that the Bulls really only need one thing and that's a good SG, a thing that's super rare today, and if a bad team had that they'd probably want Mirotic for themselves...

Maybe the Wolves would do it since they already have 2 PFs (Bennett and Young) :

Bulls get Kmart + Spurs pick
Spurs get Mirotic + Snell
Wolves get Beli + Ayres + Ŝpurs picks

[Baam]

Another 5 min game for Mirotic... Seems like he's in Thibs dog house... Imo there's def something to be tried... Not the same position but Mirotic is way better than Splitter...

[Mel_13]

Someone needs to learn to read a box score. The reason for Mirotic's drop in minutes is perfectly obvious even after a cursory look.

[benefactor]

Someone needs to learn to read a box score. The reason for Mirotic's drop in minutes is perfectly obvious even after a cursory look.
Consider the source.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Boris was over 30, I don't think it's that clear cut even tho there's a clear focus on upside... But the bottom line is value...

I was checking Mirotic stats and he went from 28min to 5min in 5 games : http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6459/nikola-mirotic

Could be interesting if the trend continues...

I think the Spurs should look very hard at bigs, especially 4th bigs who are the odd man out of their team like Ajinça and Mirotic... The problem is that the Bulls really only need one thing and that's a good SG, a thing that's super rare today, and if a bad team had that they'd probably want Mirotic for themselves...

Maybe the Wolves would do it since they already have 2 PFs (Bennett and Young) :

Bulls get Kmart + Spurs pick
Spurs get Mirotic + Snell
Wolves get Beli + Ayres + Ŝpurs picks

I like Mirotic and Snell. If I was rc, id be shopping the hell out of my 2016 draft picks. Manu and Tim gone, Parker old. Those picks could fetch enough talent to make sure those picks aren't very high.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Post 2013 GM rule #1 : Don't trade away your first round picks.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Post 2013 GM rule #1 : Don't trade away your first round picks.

have you ever heard of a trojan horse?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I like Mirotic and Snell. If I was rc, id be shopping the hell out of my 2016 draft picks.Manu and Tim gone, Parker old. Those picks could fetch enough talent to make sure those picks aren't very high.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I like Mirotic and Snell. If I was rc, id be shopping the hell out of my 2016 draft picks.Manu and Tim gone, Parker old. Those picks could fetch enough talent to make sure those picks aren't very high.

hell, those picks don't even have to fetch enough talent. Make leonard happy, bring over the developing players to develop. forget bonners and dayes. the picks won't be very high anyway.

[TD 21]

It's unlikely they do anything and if they do, it's more than likely going to be something minor. Somebody who's on an expiring contract and if they're a possible fringe rotation type, someone with a high enough IQ that they think could pick up the basics of the system quickly enough to not look out of place.

Add it all up and Ayres and Daye for Kirilenko checks every box. He's out of their rotation and obviously not in their plans, so saving some money and ridding themselves of a probable malcontent would probably appeal to them. Sure, he's had back issues since signing with them and might be on his last legs, but this would be no risk, potential minor reward.

[venitian navigator]

Sorry I posted something like this in the wrong section...I also see Kirilenko like an ideal fit to our team so early in the season.
If we decide to go full with IQ instead of developing young people, trade for Kirilenko and then signing Lorbeck could be an early, immediate chance to grow the chance of a real deep rotation for bigs.

[elemento]

AK is totally out of BK's rotation.

If SA could grab him, it would be awesome, especially if they can get rid of Ayres + Daye in the process. BK has no reason to trade him for a pile of shit like Ayres + Daye though. Saving 400k is nothing for them. SA would have to include something to entice them. I wouldn't include a 1st round pick at this point of AK's career, but I would be ok with a couple of 2nds or the rights of some stashed players.

[Uriel]

AK is totally out of BK's rotation.

If SA could grab him, it would be awesome, especially if they can get rid of Ayres + Daye in the process. BK has no reason to trade him for a pile of shit like Ayres + Daye though. Saving 400k is nothing for them. SA would have to include something to entice them. I wouldn't include a 1st round pick at this point of AK's career, but I would be ok with a couple of 2nds or the rights of some stashed players.
That 400K would be multiplied several times over, though, considering all the luxury tax penalties Brooklyn is paying. Plus, it's better to have young pieces that can actually contribute than a past-his-prime vet who isn't even with the team.

[elemento]

That 400K would be multiplied several times over, though, considering all the luxury tax penalties Brooklyn is paying. Plus, it's better to have young pieces that can actually contribute than a past-his-prime vet who isn't even with the team.

Yeah, but they still have no reason to do it without a better incentive. They have no room for 2 scrubs like Ayres and Daye.
If they can find a taker for a TPE, they save more than 10m in tax money and it's way better than taking both Ayres and Daye.
I think that the best case for SA is AK going to the 76ers for a TPE + something and the 76ers buying him out. SA sign him for the min for the rest of the season, just like they did with Boris.

There's absolutely no downside about it.

[Chinook]

I brought this idea up a couple of months ago, but what do people think about a trade for Jose Calderon? I'm pretty sure that Calderon and Early for Beli and Ayres works financially.

For the Knicks, it would actually save them a ton of money when you account for what they'd save in taxes this year and what they'd save in cap space over the next two years. They'd also be able to either keep or flip Beli later in the year for some slight value. Probably worth giving up Early for that.

For the Spurs, they'd get a legit backup PG who's big enough to play the two next to Mills. He doesn't turn the ball over while getting a decent number of assists, and he's a knock-down shooter. In other words, he can play both on and off the ball rather well. They'd also get a decent SF prospect to go with their gut of potential backups for Leonard. Cleathony would be the scoring specialist of the group, and such a player is probably needed next to Anderson and Mills (and whoever wins out of LJC and Bertans). I'm not high on Early, but he's not guaranteed, so if he doesn't work out he can be cut rather easily.

[exstatic]

I brought this idea up a couple of months ago, but what do people think about a trade for Jose Calderon? I'm pretty sure that Calderon and Early for Beli and Ayres works financially.

For the Knicks, it would actually save them a ton of money when you account for what they'd save in taxes this year and what they'd save in cap space over the next two years. They'd also be able to either keep or flip Beli later in the year for some slight value. Probably worth giving up Early for that.

For the Spurs, they'd get a legit backup PG who's big enough to play the two next to Mills. He doesn't turn the ball over while getting a decent number of assists, and he's a knock-down shooter. In other words, he can play both on and off the ball rather well. They'd also get a decent SF prospect to go with their gut of potential backups for Leonard. Cleathony would be the scoring specialist of the group, and such a player is probably needed next to Anderson and Mills (and whoever wins out of LJC and Bertans). I'm not high on Early, but he's not guaranteed, so if he doesn't work out he can be cut rather easily.

Calderon makes almost $8M, is 6'3" (not big enough to play with Mills), is 33 years old with two more years left on his contract, and plays no defense at all.

The Spurs system doesn't require a "true PG" in any real sense, either starting or on the bench unit. Taking on an old, expensive, no defense one is a bad idea.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i'm not high on calderon, either. i think cojo is gone, either by free agency or trade. mills will still be around as a veteran point guard. i think the next point guard to come to town will be a young fella.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

calderon might be an interesting piece to have behind Rose?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Bonner, Cojo, one of those post Tim, Manu 2nds for Marcus Smart? Whatever cap filler to square that up be what it would.

[Mel_13]

Bonner, Cojo, one of those post Tim, Manu 2nds for Marcus Smart? Whatever cap filler to square that up be what it would.

Every bit as unrealistic as Cojo for Lavine. Teams, especially rebuilding teams, aren't going to give up players that they just drafted, and have under rookie contracts for 4 years, for one that is about to be a free agent

[Mel_13]

I brought this idea up a couple of months ago, but what do people think about a trade for Jose Calderon? I'm pretty sure that Calderon and Early for Beli and Ayres works financially.

For the Knicks, it would actually save them a ton of money when you account for what they'd save in taxes this year and what they'd save in cap space over the next two years. They'd also be able to either keep or flip Beli later in the year for some slight value. Probably worth giving up Early for that.

For the Spurs, they'd get a legit backup PG who's big enough to play the two next to Mills. He doesn't turn the ball over while getting a decent number of assists, and he's a knock-down shooter. In other words, he can play both on and off the ball rather well. They'd also get a decent SF prospect to go with their gut of potential backups for Leonard. Cleathony would be the scoring specialist of the group, and such a player is probably needed next to Anderson and Mills (and whoever wins out of LJC and Bertans). I'm not high on Early, but he's not guaranteed, so if he doesn't work out he can be cut rather easily.

Did someone hack Chinook's account?

Seriously, you made the case for months that the Spurs shouldn't extend Kawhi in order to maximize cap space for the summer of 2015. The Spurs did exactly that. Acquiring Calderon sucks up all or most of the potential cap space saved by delaying a Leonard signing.

[DPG21920]

I think Chinook is probably thinking the cap space plan may be delayed..But cap space aside, I wouldn't bail the Knicks out for that cheap. Plus, with Mills/CJ/Manu I don't see the need to add another questionable defender just because he's better off the ball than CJ. He's a better player than CJ no doubt, but when combined the cap space issue, I wouldn't do that.

[Chinook]

Did someone hack Chinook's account?

Seriously, you made the case for months that the Spurs shouldn't extend Kawhi in order to maximize cap space for the summer of 2015. The Spurs did exactly that. Acquiring Calderon sucks up all or most of the potential cap space saved by delaying a Leonard signing.

I am also considering a (very likely) scenario in which the Spurs aren't able to land a star in free agency and instead have to settle for multiple mid-tier FAs. To that end, I've proposed several trades over the past couple months for players (Kevin Martin and Ilyasova for example) who have two more years on their deals. Those players would expire in 2017 when the next cap window would be open. The team may end up having to sign guys of that caliber anyway. The benefit of trading for one of them this season is that it would help now as well as in the future.

Maximizing cap space was the right move, but that doesn't mean that the team has to go all out a max player if they can get some really good players for less. Also, I'm not sure the Spurs will even have a max slot next summer. Most of our old calculations did not account for Green at more than $6 Million or so. It's possible the Spurs won't even be able to join the sweepstakes next summer.

[Chinook]

Calderon makes almost $8M, is 6'3" (not big enough to play with Mills), is 33 years old with two more years left on his contract, and plays no defense at all.

Calderon's contract is why he'd be available in the first place. I don't see much of a reason why he would be worse on defense than Beli. He plays the two-guard a lot in New York, and in Dallas he played next to a much smaller guard and checked twos often. 6-3 in today's NBA is decent SG height. As far as contract length goes, he'd expire in 2017, so it's really not a big deal. The Spurs could probably afford Jose and Millsap, for example. The only concern is his age, but since I see the team kinda going through a retooling rather than rebuild, it's not really a big deal. The Spurs will be an older team in 2015 than a lot of people anticipate.


The Spurs system doesn't require a "true PG" in any real sense, either starting or on the bench unit.

Of course it does. There are times where the offense just runs itself, but the extent to which that happens and the frequency at which it works is overstated. If you think the bench doesn't need Ginobili's play-making, I don't know what games you've been watching. In any event, Calderon is an elite shooter, so he'd benefit from a free-flowing offense as much as anyone would. Also, when he does run an offense, he's great at it, which is important.

[Chinook]

I think Chinook is probably thinking the cap space plan may be delayed..But cap space aside, I wouldn't bail the Knicks out for that cheap. Plus, with Mills/CJ/Manu I don't see the need to add another questionable defender just because he's better off the ball than CJ. He's a better player than CJ no doubt, but when combined the cap space issue, I wouldn't do that.

My first proposal was Calderon and swap of firsts this year for Beli/Ayres. But Jose has better value than that. I don't think the Knicks will have to give up all that much to get rid of him, especially now that Jackson is at the helm. As far as small assets go, I'd probably prefer Acy to Early, since I love the way Quincy plays. But Early has more years under team control and is therefore the better asset.

[Mel_13]

I am also considering a (very likely) scenario in which the Spurs aren't able to land a star in free agency and instead have to settle for multiple mid-tier FAs. To that end, I've proposed several trades over the past couple months for players (Kevin Martin and Ilyasova for example) who have two more years on their deals. Those players would expire in 2017 when the next cap window would be open. The team may end up having to sign guys of that caliber anyway. The benefit of trading for one of them this season is that it would help now as well as in the future.

Maximizing cap space was the right move, but that doesn't mean that the team has to go all out a max player if they can get some really good players for less. Also, I'm not sure the Spurs will even have a max slot next summer. Most of our old calculations did not account for Green at more than $6 Million or so. It's possible the Spurs won't even be able to join the sweepstakes next summer.

1. I was going for humor with the bit about a hacked account. Hopefully that came through.

2. I was saying that rolling the cap window over until 2017 was a strong possibility months before the Diaw, Mills, and Parker deals so you know that I fully understand everything you just said. Max cap space in 2015 always has seemed to be a mirage to me.

3. Given that they made the decision to delay the Leonard signing, I'd want any trade that significantly impacts 2015 cap space to bring back a better deal than Calderon at 2yrs/15M.

[DPG21920]

1. I was going for humor with the bit about a hacked account. Hopefully that came through.

2. I was saying that rolling the cap window over until 2017 was a strong possibility months before the Diaw, Mills, and Parker deals so you know that I fully understand everything you just said. Max cap space in 2015 always has seemed to be a mirage to me.

3. Given that they made the decision to delay the Leonard signing, I'd want any trade that significantly impacts 2015 cap space to bring back a better deal than Calderon at 2yrs/15M.

Yup - The main reason I believe cap space in 2015 to be serious thing is because of the delay with Leonard. That to me shows it's more than a pipe dream (although, regardless of cap space, I personally believed letting him hit RFA was the smart thing to do).

[DPG21920]

But, getting the Knicks first round pick may be worth it. That should be a very good pick and with a rebuild coming up, that lottery level cheap talent could be huge.

[Chinook]

1. I was going for humor with the bit about a hacked account. Hopefully that came through.

2. I was saying that rolling the cap window over until 2017 was a strong possibility months before the Diaw, Mills, and Parker deals so you know that I fully understand everything you just said. Max cap space in 2015 always has seemed to be a mirage to me.

3. Given that they made the decision to delay the Leonard signing, I'd want any trade that significantly impacts 2015 cap space to bring back a better deal than Calderon at 2yrs/15M.

1 - Totally came through.

2 - Yep, I realize that as well.

3 - Again, delaying Leonard's signing can be beneficial even if the Spurs don't get a max player. Think of it this way: The Spurs would have about the same amount of 2015 cap space after trading for Calderon than they would if they extended Leonard. So the team would essentially be getting Jose for free. There may be better $8M/year players out there, but the logic of signing or trading for any of them is the same.

[Chinook]

Yup - The main reason I believe cap space in 2015 to be serious thing is because of the delay with Leonard. That to me shows it's more than a pipe dream (although, regardless of cap space, I personally believed letting him hit RFA was the smart thing to do).

I'll totally have to finish my draft of the salary thread, but I'm almost positive the Spurs don't have a max slot available next summer under current assumptions. That's especially true if Green continues to play above what most people had estimated for this next contract. No way the team should let Danny walk to chase FAs.

[DPG21920]

I'll totally have to finish my draft of the salary thread, but I'm almost positive the Spurs don't have a max slot available next summer under current assumptions. That's especially true if Green continues to play above what most people had estimated for this next contract. No way the team should let Danny walk to chase FAs.

Doesn't have to be max for me to still care about the cap space though (IMO). Even if it's below max and even if Danny plays his way into a 9M a year deal, they can still have a nice chunk of cap space they will neeed if Tim/Manu retire. Calderon would eat up a nice chunk of that and he's just not worth it at any level.

I'm on board with not having to spend a max deal even if you have the space and getting quality players, but Calderon to me isn't worth it.

Plus, an added wrinkle: Spurs have never been able to really win out on getting FA's to take paycuts to come to SA, but that was always mid-tier (MLE) money guys. With having close to max money, I wonder if that level of FA with the promise of a huge role plus playing for Pop/with TP/Tiago/Kawhi/Danny would be willing to come. Especially if they have had some big contracts before.

[Mel_13]

3 - Again, delaying Leonard's signing can be beneficial even if the Spurs don't get a max player. Think of it this way: The Spurs would have about the same amount of 2015 cap space after trading for Calderon than they would if they extended Leonard. So the team would essentially be getting Jose for free. There may be better $8M/year players out there, but the logic of signing or trading for any of them is the same.

I understand the logic of your point, but I would much rather have the 8M in cap space than have Calderon and I'd hate to give up even the remote possibility of landing a major free agent for him. (Full disclosure- I've been arguing against any acquisition of Calderon for years before you started posting, so I am biased against the guy)

[Mel_13]

I'll totally have to finish my draft of the salary thread, but I'm almost positive the Spurs don't have a max slot available next summer under current assumptions. That's especially true if Green continues to play above what most people had estimated for this next contract. No way the team should let Danny walk to chase FAs.

Amen.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Would Cojo re-sign affect space to sign Green?

[Mel_13]

Would Cojo re-sign affect space to sign Green?

In practical terms, there's no way that the Spurs will risk losing Green in order to keep Joseph.

In terms of the rules, it depends. If the Spurs use cap space to sign a free agent, then they'll have to fit all their resigning players under the salary cap, with only the room exception and vet minimum exception available to exceed the cap. So every dollar spent on one player is a dollar that can't be spent on another. If, however, the Spurs do not use cap space to sign a free agent, then they'll have the MLE and BAE for free agent signings and they can use Bird Rights to bring their own players back while exceeding the salary cap.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

So a raise for not-Parker and not-Mills point guard doesn't really affect a raise for Green, as much as it affects what free agents could replace Ayers, Bonner, Baynes, and maybe Timmy?

[Richie]

I'll totally have to finish my draft of the salary thread, but I'm almost positive the Spurs don't have a max slot available next summer under current assumptions. That's especially true if Green continues to play above what most people had estimated for this next contract. No way the team should let Danny walk to chase FAs.

Green only has a $7.5m cap hold so his contract is unlikely to be a factor in holding us back if Tim and Manu retire. Also it's very tough to predict what will happen to the cap over the next couple of years. Including roster cap holds we've got $51m committed going in to next summer, we won't have a 10 year vet max but if the final cap figure trends towards $70m we will be close enough to Gasol or Aldridge's max to be in the conversation.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Every bit as unrealistic as Cojo for Lavine. Teams, especially rebuilding teams, aren't going to give up players that they just drafted, and have under rookie contracts for 4 years, for one that is about to be a free agent

i think you're probably right. but that's so wierd. the spurs can afford to jettison a contributor for a friendly contract dice roll. i'd expect the celtics and twolves to be looking for home town discount, championship caliber contributors.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i think you're probably right. but that's so wierd. the spurs can afford to jettison a contributor for a friendly contract dice roll. i'd expect the celtics and twolves to be looking for home town discount, championship caliber contributors.

for the purpose of simplicity, i use home town discount very loosely. the player may not necessarily be playing at home, but close to or with stars/potential stars from home.

[FireMicoHalili]

Victor Claver available. Could be had for a 1-1 swap for either Daye or Ayres (doubt they want their own garbage though). Has bad overall career stats compared to Daye, but the same was said of Casspi, and the latter has been performing better than the former.

[Richie]

Looks like Draymond Green could be getting $10m+ in the summer, if the Warriors pay him then they'll end up with a huge luxury tax bill.

If the Warriors need to get rid of Lee we could absorb his contract in the summer. What would we be willing to give up for him? If Timmy retires a first rounder is probably too valuable to give up, but if Timmy wants to come back and therefore we don't have the space for a max player I'd consider Lee for a pick that will likely be #28-30

[Uriel]

Looks like Draymond Green could be getting $10m+ in the summer, if the Warriors pay him then they'll end up with a huge luxury tax bill.

If the Warriors need to get rid of Lee we could absorb his contract in the summer. What would we be willing to give up for him? If Timmy retires a first rounder is probably too valuable to give up, but if Timmy wants to come back and therefore we don't have the space for a max player I'd consider Lee for a pick that will likely be #28-30
But, but... we already have a better player than Lee in the form of Boris Diaw. :cry

[Chinook]

Would much rather sign O'Quinn and another player or two than give up a first for Lee, Tim or no Tim.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i'd rather the spurs just go for Draymond in free agency.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Curry, thompson, iggy, and lee should take up a pretty big chunk. I think green is gonna be in for a big contract. I smell a harden style trade in golden state.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

:lol I like Draymond a lot, but in no way is he in a similar position to Harden's a couple of years ago. He's in line to get less than the MLE unless a team is stupid. In any event, the Warriors aren't really capped out. They're projected to be under the cap the year Green becomes an RFA. They'd definitely be able to keep him and stay under the tax unless they hand out a big contract to anyone besides Thompson. It's not impossible for Green to go to another team, but it wouldn't be because Golden State can't afford him.

also, this.

[Chinook]

also, this.

I don't think Green's going anywhere. If he does, it'll be because Klay got $17 Million a year.

[exstatic]

i'd rather the spurs just go for Draymond in free agency.

If they want that player, they have him in Europe already. His name is DeShaun Thomas. He can shoot and score, but he's too short to play the 4 and too chunky and immobile to check wing players. They're twin sons from different mothers.

One thing that you need to understand, though. There are players who get rotation minutes, or even start for other teams that could never play for the Popovich Spurs. Draymond is one of them. He makes Beli look like Bowen on D.

[Richie]

:lol I like Draymond a lot, but in no way is he in a similar position to Harden's a couple of years ago. He's in line to get less than the MLE unless a team is stupid. In any event, the Warriors aren't really capped out. They're projected to be under the cap the year Green becomes an RFA. They'd definitely be able to keep him and stay under the tax unless they hand out a big contract to anyone besides Thompson. It's not impossible for Green to go to another team, but it wouldn't be because Golden State can't afford him.

Under the cap? You need to check again, they have $81m committed to players next year not including Draymonds contract. Lets say they bring back Speights (the only team option, $3.8m) and Draymond gets $9m (and I wouldn't be surprised if he got more), that puts them at $90m.

Assuming the tax starts around $80m, they'd be liable for $16.25m in tax, meaning their roster costs them $106m. Draymond Green effectively becomes a $26m player which is crazy, they will either let him go or trade Lee/Iggy so they get back under the tax.

[Richie]

Another alternative might be giving up a first for Iguodala, who I'd prefer over Lee. Again there would be a worry about shot blocking as we'd play a lot of minutes very small.

[Richie]

Would much rather sign O'Quinn and another player or two than give up a first for Lee, Tim or no Tim.

O'Quinn is a restricted free agent, there's no way we could get him away from the Magic for anything approaching good value. Also, we'd have to commit to him for 4 years, losing any hope of cap space in the future.

I like O'Quinn, and I agree I'm not sure I'd want to give up a first for David Lee, but I'd rather have Lee for $15m/1yr than O'Quinn for the $50m/4yr it'd take for the Magic not to match.

[Richie]

If they want that player, they have him in Europe already. His name is DeShaun Thomas. He can shoot and score, but he's too short to play the 4 and too chunky and immobile to check wing players. They're twin sons from different mothers.

One thing that you need to understand, though. There are players who get rotation minutes, or even start for other teams that could never play for the Popovich Spurs. Draymond is one of them. He makes Beli look like Bowen on D.

Draymond has a great defensive reputation. I don't know where you're getting the idea he's a liability on D.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Exstatic, do you play in any nba fantasy leagues?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

In Pitino and Izzo products, I trust. I still swear by Siva. If the spurs bring him in over the summer instead of Cotton, Cojo would be George Hill trade 2.0

[exstatic]

Exstatic, do you play in any nba fantasy leagues?

Nope. I don't care about fantasy sports. They have little connection with championship sports play, and downplay or ignore defense, other than counting steals and blocks.

[Chinook]

Under the cap? You need to check again, they have $81m committed to players next year not including Draymonds contract. Lets say they bring back Speights (the only team option, $3.8m) and Draymond gets $9m (and I wouldn't be surprised if he got more), that puts them at $90m.

Assuming the tax starts around $80m, they'd be liable for $16.25m in tax, meaning their roster costs them $106m. Draymond Green effectively becomes a $26m player which is crazy, they will either let him go or trade Lee/Iggy so they get back under the tax.

Context is important. First, that post Lab quoted is months old. Secobd, by the context, it should be clear that I meant "over" and mistyped.

[Chinook]

O'Quinn is a restricted free agent, there's no way we could get him away from the Magic for anything approaching good value. Also, we'd have to commit to him for 4 years, losing any hope of cap space in the future.

I like O'Quinn, and I agree I'm not sure I'd want to give up a first for David Lee, but I'd rather have Lee for $15m/1yr than O'Quinn for the $50m/4yr it'd take for the Magic not to match.

The Magic owe $20 Million a season to Frye and Vuc. They won't automatically break the bank on a third big, especially with Gordon and Harris in the mix (and Harkless). Anyway, even on a $50M/4 deal (which is at least $10 Million more than I see him getting), the team will have plenty of 2017 cap space with Tiago and Patty expiring and Boris being completely non-guaranteed. If O'Quinn is worth the money next year, he'll almost certainly be worth it in three years.

[Richie]

The Magic owe $20 Million a season to Frye and Vuc. They won't automatically break the bank on a third big, especially with Gordon and Harris in the mix (and Harkless). Anyway, even on a $50M/4 deal (which is at least $10 Million more than I see him getting), the team will have plenty of 2017 cap space with Tiago and Patty expiring and Boris being completely non-guaranteed. If O'Quinn is worth the money next year, he'll almost certainly be worth it in three years.

Im still unsure why we wouldn't target 2016 free agency if we strike out this summer. We have $34m committed, plus $7m to Green and $18m to Kawhi is $59m. There is a chance (although I think it is slim) that there will be some cap smoothing next summer but even if there isn't we could still expect to have $10m+ to play with in a very deep free agent class.

There's simply so many questions about the cap over the next couple years to plan the next couple of summers. We'll almost certainly have huge cap room in 2017 either way, even if we bring back Tiago and bring in someone like O'Quinn or a $10m(ish) free agent in 2016.

I like O'Quinn but I'm not sure he's worth what he'd cost to get him away from Orlando.

[Chinook]

Im still unsure why we wouldn't target 2016 free agency if we strike out this summer. We have $34m committed, plus $7m to Green and $18m to Kawhi is $59m. There is a chance (although I think it is slim) that there will be some cap smoothing next summer but even if there isn't we could still expect to have $10m+ to play with in a very deep free agent class.

There's simply so many questions about the cap over the next couple years to plan the next couple of summers. We'll almost certainly have huge cap room in 2017 either way, even if we bring back Tiago and bring in someone like O'Quinn or a $10m(ish) free agent in 2016.

I like O'Quinn but I'm not sure he's worth what he'd cost to get him away from Orlando.

Who's a FA in 2016 who's worth $10 Million while also making a difference? I don't think anyone better than O'Quinn.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Nope. I don't care about fantasy sports. They have little connection with championship sports play, and downplay or ignore defense, other than counting steals and blocks.

There are many ways to credit stats in fantasy leagues. There are leagues that give the same wieght to turnovers, ft, fg, and 3 pt % as points, and the rest of the typical stats. In such leagues, you would see how your take on draymond is so disagreeable.

[Godbama]

supposedly the entire Nets roster is available? Could we actually get get Joe Johnson with just a first round pick/Daye or so? Can you imagine him as the killer cold Spurs starting SG in the Pop system?

[Chinook]

Dude...

[exstatic]

supposedly the entire Nets roster is available? Could we actually get get Joe Johnson with just a first round pick/Daye or so? Can you imagine him as the killer cold Spurs starting SG in the Pop system?
Do you understand the salary cap at all?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

supposedly the entire Nets roster is available? Could we actually get get Joe Johnson with just a first round pick/Daye or so? Can you imagine him as the killer cold Spurs starting SG in the Pop system?

Not sure which part is more ridiculous tbh.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

supposedly the entire Nets roster is available? Could we actually get get Joe Johnson with just a first round pick/Daye or so? Can you imagine him as the killer cold Spurs starting SG in the Pop system?

Yeah yeah, I bet he doesn't even know who the babe is either.

[100%duncan]

supposedly the entire Nets roster is available? Could we actually get get Joe Johnson with just a first round pick/Daye or so? Can you imagine him as the killer cold Spurs starting SG in the Pop system?

Why Joe Johnson? Dream big, Lebron James.

[Ditty]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-12-15/nba-trade-rumor-greg-monroe-detroit-pistons-celtics-suns

Ayers, Bonner, Daye and 1st rounder for Monroe

[DrunkTXLabrat]

J Green seems better than Monroe.

[exstatic]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-12-15/nba-trade-rumor-greg-monroe-detroit-pistons-celtics-suns

Ayers, Bonner, Daye and 1st rounder for Monroe

Why pay for Monroe when you can sign him outright this summer?

[Ditty]

Why pay for Monroe when you can sign him outright this summer?

Too play him over Bonner :lol

[exstatic]

Too play him over Bonner :lol

Would Pop even?

[Mr Bones]

A couple of sources now have said Ainge doesn't plan on keeping Brandan Wright and is looking to trade him for a first round pick...

[Chinook]

Trade idea with Orlando: Ayres and a first for O'Quinn and Marble. Waive Daye to make room. Would you do it? Ideally, the Spurs would include Daye and enough cash to waive him, since that would create a TE of almost $2 Million.

For me, it'd be a no-brainer, as I'm an O'Quinn homer and am intrigued by Devyn. Think getting two young players is great use of a first, especially since it doesn't require movinga rotation player.

As far as Orlando goes, I'm not sure they're going to pay O'Quinn, so getting a pick is pretty decent. Doubt they care about Devyn much at all.

[Andthentherewas21]

Trade idea with Orlando: Ayres and a first for O'Quinn and Marble. Waive Daye to make room. Would you do it? Ideally, the Spurs would include Daye and enough cash to waive him, since that would create a TE of almost $2 Million.

For me, it'd be a no-brainer, as I'm an O'Quinn homer and am intrigued by Devyn. Think getting two young players is great use of a first, especially since it doesn't require movinga rotation player.

As far as Orlando goes, I'm not sure they're going to pay O'Quinn, so getting a pick is pretty decent. Doubt they care about Devyn much at all.

I'd be all for it as long as they could resign him to something reasonable (mid-level range maybe a little over) after the season. He is young enough that he could be a nice component of the post-duncan era to pair with Leonard and has good range for a bigman (sans a 3pt shot).

[Mr Bones]

Trade idea with Orlando: Ayres and a first for O'Quinn and Marble. Waive Daye to make room. Would you do it? Ideally, the Spurs would include Daye and enough cash to waive him, since that would create a TE of almost $2 Million.

For me, it'd be a no-brainer, as I'm an O'Quinn homer and am intrigued by Devyn. Think getting two young players is great use of a first, especially since it doesn't require movinga rotation player.

As far as Orlando goes, I'm not sure they're going to pay O'Quinn, so getting a pick is pretty decent. Doubt they care about Devyn much at all.

If O'Quinn agreed beforehand to resign at a reasonable price... Yes.

[Chinook]

Well as I've said before, I think O'Quinn is worth a $40M/5 deal, but the Spurs could probably get him for a $30M/5. What's great is that he's an RFA.

[jesterbobman]

I'm in on that. Suggested the same concept in the Kyle O'Quinn thread (Ayres and a 1 for Kyle) , as it allows us to get a good big man in FA and he only counts for cap hold.

[FireMicoHalili]

trade Daye and Ayres for someone who can provide a spark offensively off the bench. They're worth nothing though, not even second round picks.

[venitian navigator]

Arthur and Harris are in Shaw's doghouse, at the moment...and Mg Gee is out indefinitely. Probably they boyh could be available for something like Ayres + Daye (or Belinelli). I Like both Denver's players, they could bring some athletiticism we surely need...

[exstatic]

Arthur and Harris are in Shaw's doghouse, at the moment...and Mg Gee is out indefinitely. Probably they boyh could be available for something like Ayres + Daye (or Belinelli). I Like both Denver's players, they could bring some athletiticism we surely need...

Darrell Arhur is WAY too dumb to ever be a Spur. He set off the fucking smoke alarm in his room at the rookie symposium smoking Buddha and got kicked out. :lol Harris is a rookie draft pick, and as such, will often move in and out of a coaches doghouse.

[objective]

Bummed about the Josh Smith waiving. Not only will it make a rival better, but now Greg Monroe is likely off the trade block. He'll be able to inflate his stats and increase his price tag.

I hate Stan Van Gundy with a passion now.

[jyra]

547965684115079169
547966165449191424

I would love to see the Spurs go after Capela with their TPE (Yes, I know that it's highly unlikely the Spurs cut someone for him but still..). He wouldn't make any impact this season but on draft day he was the guy I was holding my breath for and it seemed that he had a draft promise from the Spurs.

[Chinook]

547965684115079169
547966165449191424

I would love to see the Spurs go after Capela with their TPE (Yes, I know that it's highly unlikely the Spurs cut someone for him but still..). He wouldn't make any impact this season but on draft day he was the guy I was holding my breath for and it seemed that he had a draft promise from the Spurs.

Hell yeah, I agree with you. Send Ayres and cash along with a couple second/rights to foreign players not named Bertans or Jean-Charles.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Tarik Black seems a decent pick up. Giving up on Daye and getting Black would be worthwhile, methinks.

[szkorhetz]

They don't need to offer anything to Houston, the article says they are going to release him either way. However given the Spurs don't have a roster spot open, and the fact he is a tweener forward that doesn't have the speed to guard SFs in the NBA means that its unlikely they go after him, especially with Daye on the roster. Maybe a D-league contract but unlikely to ever get called up.
So, it seems like we could have pretty much use Covington.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Capela would be nice. Maybe Texas three step with Dallas? Forget Rondo, it's all about RJ and Ayers?

[Andthentherewas21]

So, it seems like we could have pretty much use Covington.

The Spurs could use any SF seeing as the only one on the roster is injured. My point wasn't that they shouldn't have gone after Covington when he was available, it was that given the Spurs picked up Daye's contract and didn't have the roster spot they weren't going to go after him. I wasn't a fan of extending Daye, but given they had him on the roster they had no reason and room to pick him up.

[exstatic]

Capela would be nice. Maybe Texas three step with Dallas? Forget Rondo, it's all about RJ and Ayers?

Uh, this was over days ago when they cut Black. They're no longer looking to dump a contract to open a roster spot.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Matt Bonner to Steve Kerr for 1st swap?

[benefactor]

So with the questions surrounding Leonard and Patty back, when do we start talking about getting something for Joseph instead of letting him walk for nothing?

Joseph/Beli/Daye for Wilson Chandler. Denver is going nowhere and needs a legit option at backup PG...and Chandler has one more year then they have to think about paying him. They could get some assurance that Joseph would re-sign with them. Beli gives them another shooter and Day is filler, obviously. Seems like it takes care of some needs for both teams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=k7lu4h3

[Chinook]

So with the questions surrounding Leonard and Patty back, when do we start talking about getting something for Joseph instead of letting him walk for nothing?

Joseph/Beli/Daye for Wilson Chandler. Denver is going nowhere and needs a legit option at backup PG...and Chandler has one more year then they have to think about paying him. They could get some assurance that Joseph would re-sign with them. Beli gives them another shooter and Day is filler, obviously. Seems like it takes care of some needs for both teams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=k7lu4h3

Nah. You just pay Cory next summer and figure out the rest later. The dude is 23. I honestly think the Spurs made a mistake giving a max extension to Parker. They should have kept him, don't get me wrong, but they would have had a good deal of leverage.

If the Spurs want a SF (and they don't really need one, as Anderson is playing well), they should just get one from Orlando. It'd probably just cost them a pick, and that player plus Cory would still count for less on the cap than Chandler would.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Wilson Chandler has been piss poor this season on both ends of the floor. Would be an overkill to get his carcass for Cory who has been very good in Parker's absence. I think the best thing for the Spurs to do is to not overcomplicate things. Parker looks fragile and the more younger bodies, the more it bodes well for a chance to repeat. The Spurs ought to keep Joseph till the season is over.

If they have to change a thing..they might try to prise someone for the Daye-Ayres combo. And then stay pat for the season.

[Mel_13]

when do we start talking about getting something for Joseph instead of letting him walk for nothing?


Nah. You just pay Cory next summer and figure out the rest later. The dude is 23.

Agree with Chinook. All the Spurs have to do to avoid losing Cory for nothing is extend the QO and make him an RFA.

Also not a Chandler fan. He's a below league average player on a bloated deal.

[Baam]

They have to trade Mills at the end of the season but not sure he's gonna be that easy to move... Shouldn't have resigned Mills in the first place...

[100%duncan]

So with the questions surrounding Leonard and Patty back, when do we start talking about getting something for Joseph instead of letting him walk for nothing?

Joseph/Beli/Daye for Wilson Chandler. Denver is going nowhere and needs a legit option at backup PG...and Chandler has one more year then they have to think about paying him. They could get some assurance that Joseph would re-sign with them. Beli gives them another shooter and Day is filler, obviously. Seems like it takes care of some needs for both teams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=k7lu4h3

Cojo can be signed cheaply for us next summer imho and if you want to get an SF it's not going to be Wilson Chandler.

[cjw]

They have to trade Mills at the end of the season but not sure he's gonna be that easy to move... Shouldn't have resigned Mills in the first place...

If he's recovered from surgery and is 80-90% of the player he was last year, he can be moved in a heartbeat. Not that he's likely to get shipped out.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

If the spurs trade Cojo, I think it'll be to Toronto or Minny. George got to go home to Indiana. I don't see why they'd choose a different route, unless Cojo has a different team he'd want to play for.

[FireMicoHalili]

If the spurs trade Cojo, I think it'll be to Toronto or Minny. George got to go home to Indiana. I don't see why they'd choose a different route, unless Cojo has a different team he'd want to play for.
I was thinking the same thing re: trading him to Toronto, but they've got Lowry and Vasquez at the point so it makes little sense for both sides, esp for Joseph in a contract year. Minnesota has LaVine, Rubio, and Mo Williams so it's a bad fit. Market is saturated with point men so guys like Reggie Jackson and Joseph will have some trouble making bank during free agency. The Lakers could use some help at the point, but none of their assets are desirable, and they aren't willing to part with their picks or young assets.

[CGD]

Back to the Trade with orlando, is there a reason why the magic wouldn't pay oquinn? Do they have to pay someone else at the same time?

[jesterbobman]

With Vucevic, Frye, Aaron Gordon up front, plus Tobias Harris(SF/PF), Fournier, Oladipo and Payton as Smalls, O'Quinn doesn't seem too high on their list. Talent in draft this year also seems to be bigs. While they don't want to be young forever, paying everyone on a developing team eventually gets hard.

They could definitely keep him, just not sure how it fits into a long term plan. They've already given $ to Vuc as their Centre, and paying two guys decent money at the same position is iffy.

[Chinook]

How would people feel about acquiring Thad Young? He's probably available for a first-rounder. I'd probably rather use the team's limited assets on another player and sign Green from the Toros. Undersized energy bigs are not all that hard to find.

[Mel_13]

I like Young, but I don't see how they make the numbers work.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)ESPN sources say Blazers have jumped into the running alongside Mavs, Cavs & Clips for vet big man @jermaineoneal (https://twitter.com/jermaineoneal/) -- espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id… (http://t.co/1W2otwFLaB)

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I was thinking the same thing re: trading him to Toronto, but they've got Lowry and Vasquez at the point so it makes little sense for both sides, esp for Joseph in a contract year. Minnesota has LaVine, Rubio, and Mo Williams so it's a bad fit. Market is saturated with point men so guys like Reggie Jackson and Joseph will have some trouble making bank during free agency. The Lakers could use some help at the point, but none of their assets are desirable, and they aren't willing to part with their picks or young assets.

True, but I think Lowry and Rubio are pretty injury prone. How about this, Milwaukee or Brooklyn? Hear me out. These teams look playoff bound. Knight is known to have some trouble being a legit point. Williams is a known injury risk. Either team with Cojo should expect to be that much more solid for the playoffs. Both are in the Toronto area. Either team could end up falling short, unexpectedly. That's a nice 1st round pick to have. Cojo and 15 1st to whichever team would give their 1st?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

The gap left by a Cojo trade could pretty well be masked by some mad scientist Mills, Beli, Anerdson rotation tweaks. The Spurs could bring in J Green or Cotton. And have a potential lottery pick.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I think Orlando, Charlotte, and Boston could all make turn arounds. Mk and Bk are not playoff locks quite yet.

[FireMicoHalili]

True, but I think Lowry and Rubio are pretty injury prone. How about this, Milwaukee or Brooklyn? Hear me out. These teams look playoff bound. Knight is known to have some trouble being a legit point. Williams is a known injury risk. Either team with Cojo should expect to be that much more solid for the playoffs. Both are in the Toronto area. Either team could end up falling short, unexpectedly. That's a nice 1st round pick to have. Cojo and 15 1st to whichever team would give their 1st?
Mil and Bkn have Bayless (and Wolters and Marshall as well) and Jack, respectively. I've already gone through several trade machine scenarios before and none of the BKN guys attainable with Joseph's salary can be had (Teletovic and Bogdanovic). Dudley may be had, but it's a long shot after they lost Parker to a season-ending injury. I agree with the sentiment that Joseph should be shopped around while his value is at an all-time high but I'm having trouble conceiving where he should end up, a place beneficial for both sides. Unless Lowry and Rubio actually get injured I see no reason for TOR or MIN to go hard after Joseph. Players Joseph can be packaged with (Daye or Ayres) virtually have no value, while packaging him with Belinelli might net something positive, though I doubt Pop would want to part with Belinelli.

[Chinook]

Joseph is better than Mills, and the gap between their on-court value to the Spurs will only continue to grow when Manu retires. It simply doesn't make sense to trade Cory when Mills is on a more attractive contract and is much easier to replace.

[FireMicoHalili]

Joseph is better than Mills, and the gap between their on-court value to the Spurs will only continue to grow when Manu retires. It simply doesn't make sense to trade Cory when Mills is on a more attractive contract and is much easier to replace.
I'm sure you have statistical data to back that up (which I wouldn't mind seeing) but though Mills arguably has a more attractive contract, what do you do about the logjam? Does it make sense to shelf Joseph once Parker is in the pink of health?

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Link to ESPN latest on Grizzlies pursuing trade for either Luol Deng or Jeff Green -- espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id… (http://t.co/HUzwm7r1Vu)

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Celtics talking jeff green trade makes me wanna hit up ebay for james young rookie cards.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Joseph is better than Mills, and the gap between their on-court value to the Spurs will only continue to grow when Manu retires. It simply doesn't make sense to trade Cory when Mills is on a more attractive contract and is much easier to replace.

I think Mills having the more appealing contract is the reason to keep Mills.

[FireMicoHalili]

My two cents, and this is entirely based on gut feel, but the Spurs probably need another scoring wing or big, anyone who can put up points on the board. Someone who can shoot, of course. I know the Spurs are devastating when healthy, but they are down on their luck in that aspect this season. Belinelli and Mills used to light it up a season ago, but I'm surprised Marco hasn't done anything notable this season despite the contract year. Mills will take some time getting back into rhythm, and Leonard, while arguably the most important cog, is constantly hurting and still has a shaky jump shot. Green plays at SF, and, while capable, still goes on his icy/hot streaks, despite stellar defensive numbers. I'm not sure who they need, and they probably will wait it out until the roster comes together again.

[Chinook]

I'm sure you have statistical data to back that up (which I wouldn't mind seeing) but though Mills arguably has a more attractive contract, what do you do about the logjam? Does it make sense to shelf Joseph once Parker is in the pink of health?

Not as long as Leonard is out. After that, it's Cory, Patty and Beli vying for two spots. I know the two I want to win, and they're not Beli.

[Chinook]

I think Mills having the more appealing contract is the reason to keep Mills.

Nope. Their contracts shouldn't matter much to the team, since they're already here. If someone is giving up assets for them, though, that's a different story.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Nope. Their contracts shouldn't matter much to the team, since they're already here. If someone is giving up assets for them, though, that's a different story.

Having good contracts always matters, imo.

[Chinook]

Having good contracts always matters, imo.

Only to a point. Cory wouldn't have a bad contract. He's just uncertain, which is why his value would be lower.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

he wouldn't have a bad contract at all. the spurs would just have parkers and mills contracts already.

[Chinook]

he wouldn't have a bad contract at all. the spurs would just have parkers and mills contracts already.

...

They wouldn't have Mills' contract if they traded him. That's the point.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

...

They wouldn't have Mills' contract if they traded him. That's the point.

The Spurs wouldn't have been a team that could sign Mills to the good contract they did, if they were the kind of team that would trade Joseph before losing Joseph for nothing? Is that your point?

[FireMicoHalili]

Jeff Green to MEM
Link: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12143390/jeff-green-memphis-grizzlies-talks-heat-up

[ace3g]

Quincy Pondexter might be involved in the Celtics/Memphis; could be the piece going to mystery 3rd team.

[Johnny RIngo]

Trailblazers close to acquiring Wilson Chandler. Denver just waiting for POR to toss in a 1st rounder. Source - Zach Lowe

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i understand 1, and i forgot. so good point there, but i'm not so sure about 2. I think KG's sad year was more ugly team situation and less ugly player deterioration.

how about prince? i've been noticing, through fantasy league diligence, that prince might be an easy dump for the grizz. He would surely have a few pointers for kawhi, and generally be that much more championship caliber mentor-ship on the roster. as much as i hate the idea of a bargain player taking up Anderson development time, prince would be a hell of a bargain player.

Bump. Bonner. Celtics. Connecticut. Champion. Mentor. Olynyk. 2nd round pick. Ayers or Daye. Room for J Green.

[ace3g]

Dorell Wright hasn't played much for the Blazers this season.

[objective]

Chandler could help the spurs. Hope the blazers don't get him

[Chinook]

Way too big of a trade for the Spurs to even consider, but what do people think about the value of this deal?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nl7umzd with Green being a placeholder for Mills (the trade machine hasn't released him for some reason) and Anderson being a placeholder for Karasev (the machine mistakenly limits De Colo's TE by $100k).

I don't think any picks should change hands. Mills and Baynes are both decent vets who can help groom the team while also not disrupting the tanking Philly's doing. The fact that they're both Aussie NT players should have Brown standing on the table to get the deal done.

The Spurs get Lopez, who should be a lot better when platooned with Tim (this season), Tiago and Diaw. Sims is raw, but he's done some good things this season. Karasev has pretty good upside and could eventually be an upgrade to Beli as the fourth wing. Don't know much about Brown, but perhaps Philly would let the Spurs flip him for JaKarr Sampson.

The Nets get out of Lopez's deal while also getting close to the tax. That's about as much as they could expect. Maybe they can redirect Beli to another team for a small asset (or maybe the Spurs throw in a second-rounder or two) and get under the tax althogether. All that while keeping Plumlee would be impressive.

As mentioned above, Philly gets experienced vets who can compliment their young players while not really adding wins. Brown was supposedly upsets with the Sixers' brass for trading Engles, so he'd probably appreciate Patty and Aron showing up to help install his system. Baynes is good enough to start for a bad team, young enough to grow with them and bad enough to be locked up to a reasonable deal as an RFA this summer.

[Godbama]

Stauskas is on the trade market now, apparently?

[FireMicoHalili]

Way too big of a trade for the Spurs to even consider, but what do people think about the value of this deal?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nl7umzd with Green being a placeholder for Mills (the trade machine hasn't released him for some reason) and Anderson being a placeholder for Karasev (the machine mistakenly limits De Colo's TE by $100k).

I don't think any picks should change hands. Mills and Baynes are both decent vets who can help groom the team while also not disrupting the tanking Philly's doing. The fact that they're both Aussie NT players should have Brown standing on the table to get the deal done.

The Spurs get Lopez, who should be a lot better when platooned with Tim (this season), Tiago and Diaw. Sims is raw, but he's done some good things this season. Karasev has pretty good upside and could eventually be an upgrade to Beli as the fourth wing. Don't know much about Brown, but perhaps Philly would let the Spurs flip him for JaKarr Sampson.

The Nets get out of Lopez's deal while also getting close to the tax. That's about as much as they could expect. Maybe they can redirect Beli to another team for a small asset (or maybe the Spurs throw in a second-rounder or two) and get under the tax althogether. All that while keeping Plumlee would be impressive.

As mentioned above, Philly gets experienced vets who can compliment their young players while not really adding wins. Brown was supposedly upsets with the Sixers' brass for trading Engles, so he'd probably appreciate Patty and Aron showing up to help install his system. Baynes is good enough to start for a bad team, young enough to grow with them and bad enough to be locked up to a reasonable deal as an RFA this summer.
Philly would pull off that deal in a heartbeat...if Brett Brown were GM. Unfortunately Hinkie is a greedy SOB and won't part with any of his assets unless the Spurs FO throws in some picks. First step to finding out the deals the Spurs can pull off is knowing which pieces can be traded away.

As it stands, I feel the following are expendable:
Belinelli (lost his groove this season; might benefit from a change of scenery [taking a shot in the dark here])
Daye (essentially for a salary dump)
Ayres (ditto; might have some value because of his solid play so far this season)
Joseph (although not many teams need a point guard, unless BKN deals Jack away in the purported Lopez trade)
Baynes (falling out of rotation because of Splitter's return)

Not sure if Green is tradeable, but if the Spurs can save some $$$ by trading him to Denver for either Afflalo or Chandler, I think they pull it off mainly because of financial considerations, seeing that Green's having a solid contract season and will easily fetch eight figures in the open market. Afflalo for $8M/season for two years is a bargain, and the Spurs were interested in him last year if I'm not mistaken. The only reason this doesn't fall through is that Green is highly valued in the organization and that there are too many outgoing pieces to put the deal in place.

[exstatic]

I think Orlando, Charlotte, and Boston could all make turn arounds. Mk and Bk are not playoff locks quite yet.

Are you mildly retarded? Boston TRADED their only good player in Rondo over a month ago.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Are you mildly retarded? Boston TRADED their only good player in Rondo over a month ago. Boston is one of the deepest teams in the league, with one of the best up and coming coaches, and a gm with balls. You sir, are blind. The celtics will be absolutely jaw dropping, next year. They should be stomping teams right now.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

And also, if the spurs don't send Ayers back to Portland right now, they show precisely how flawed i've been preaching about.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Ayers to Portland for a 1st swap. Ayers + whatever to Portland for better or more draft and an open spot for Glen Rice Jr.

[exstatic]

Boston is one of the deepest teams in the league, with one of the best up and coming coaches, and a gm with balls. You sir, are blind. The celtics will be absolutely jaw dropping, next year. They should be stomping teams right now.

But they're not! They suck as much as your basketball analysis.

Next year could be a different story. They'll have another lottery pick on their roster, and maybe sign a FA or something. For now, they're trash.

[Mr Bones]

Next year could be a different story. They'll have another lottery pick on their roster, and maybe sign a FA or something.

Would you trade a first round pick for Olynyk? I think he could possibly be as good or better than Greg Monroe for 60% of Monroe's asking price.

[exstatic]

Would you trade a first round pick for Olynyk? I think he could possibly be as good or better than Greg Monroe for 60% of Monroe's asking price.

Nope. For two straight years, he's been a barely above average PER player, and both seasons, his ORtg and DRtg have been identical. He doesn't move the needle enough to give up an asset for.

[Chinook]

Would you trade a first round pick for Olynyk? I think he could possibly be as good or better than Greg Monroe for 60% of Monroe's asking price.

Sure. That's better than the Spurs can hope to draft.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

But they're not! They suck as much as your basketball analysis.

Next year could be a different story. They'll have another lottery pick on their roster, and maybe sign a FA or something. For now, they're trash.

Is stevens a bad coach? Is ainge a bad gm? What is Smart, Bradley, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk, Zeller, Prince, Turner missing?

[exstatic]

Is stevens a bad coach? Is ainge a bad gm? What is Smart, Bradley, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk, Zeller, Prince, Turner missing?

Wins?

[pad300]

Sure. That's better than the Spurs can hope to draft.

Untrue, I suspect that Kaminsky will fall - it's the usual talent vs. overwhelming athleticism thing - just like Anderson last year...

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Wins?

But why are they missing the wins?

[exstatic]

But why are they missing the wins?

Because they suck. Try to follow the dotted lines. Bad players = few wins.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Boston is one of the deepest teams in the league, with one of the best up and coming coaches, and a gm with balls. You sir, are blind. The celtics will be absolutely jaw dropping, next year. They should be stomping teams right now.

Is there anything you base this on other than wishful thinking? The Celtics have an average winning margin of -2.0. They have essentially the same record as the other teams with a -2 to -2.3 except for the Bobcats (which a case can be made that they are overachieving). Nothing indicates that the Celtics are anything other than a lottery team (although they should come in 3rd in their division if you want to hang your hat on that).

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Is stevens a bad coach? Is ainge a bad gm? What is Smart, Bradley, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk, Zeller, Prince, Turner missing?

This

[Mr Bones]

Is stevens a bad coach? Is ainge a bad gm? What is Smart, Bradley, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk, Zeller, Prince, Turner missing?

I'd say the biggest piece that would help would be an upgrade at the small forward position.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I'd say the biggest piece that would help would be an upgrade at the small forward position.

Prince too old, and young is too young. One person offers a real theory. I would point to injuries and the dream rotation not being the actual rotation. So Stevens has some Pop in him. Bass won't go away. Green and Rondo shoulda been traded before preseason. Those would be my little seen diagnosis. I think the 3's are fine.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=347053

[DrunkTXLabrat]

But they're not! They suck as much as your basketball analysis.

Next year could be a different story. They'll have another lottery pick on their roster, and maybe sign a FA or something. For now, they're trash.

[pad300]

Consider the following 3 lines, (per 48)



Rebounds
6.4
8.9
7.8


Assists
8.9
9.5
6.3


Turnovers
4.7
4.2
3.7


Blocks
0.6
0.4
0.6


Steals
2.0
1.8
2.6


Fouls
4.2
3.8
3.7



The first is current Manu. The second is a 26 year old wing, who is not held in exceptionally high regard by his team. The third is Prime (06/07) Ginobili

The obvious point I'm leaving out here is scoring.
So here it is



Pts
22.3
16.5
29.6


FG%
42.6
42.9
46.4


TS%
54.4
48.2
60.9


FGA
17.8
15.8
20.4


3FGA
7.8
2.5
7.7


FTA
6.2
3.0
8.9


% of FG's asst
59
38
59



Again, current Manu, Other player, Prime Manu.

Obviously, our mystery player doesn't score like Manu. He doesn't draw fouls, nor shoot the 3 as much. The other key number, however, is the percentage of fg's assisted. Manu gets 50% more setups; In the Spurs system, it seems likely that Mr. Mystery could get more efficient.

Mr. Mystery is Evan Turner (Boston). He's on an expiring next year (approximately $3.5 million). He's not Manu, but our second unit looks much better with a strongly creative wing sharing PG with our backups. IMO Turner is undervalued, and if we can pick him up halfway cheap, say pick two of three: ( Mills or a Cojo/Baynes S&T ), ( 2015 and 2016 second round picks ), (swap picks 25 & 55 for 33), we should do so. Also, with our ability to get players better looks, his scoring might pick up a fair bit...

[Mr Bones]

One trade target I'd love to see the Spurs pursue: Josh McRoberts. After having the best year of his career in Charlotte, he missed the whole season with Miami because of knee surgery. He's still only 28 yrs old, and the Heat have to re-sign free agents Wade, Dragic, and possibly Deng. Whiteside and Bosh will be the starting bigs next year, so McRoberts might be expendable...

[pad300]

One trade target I'd love to see the Spurs pursue: Josh McRoberts. After having the best year of his career in Charlotte, he missed the whole season with Miami because of knee surgery. He's still only 28 yrs old, and the Heat have to re-sign free agents Wade, Dragic, and possibly Deng. Whiteside and Bosh will be the starting bigs next year, so McRoberts might be expendable...

Don't see the need to take a risk - major knee surgery is something I want to see the results from before I commit to a player. Especially because Jerebko might be a better, cheaper option and is a UFA.

[Mr Bones]

Don't see the need to take a risk - major knee surgery is something I want to see the results from before I commit to a player. Especially because Jerebko might be a better, cheaper option and is a UFA.

I think I agree but in a list of off-season options, it's a good one to add. McRoberts has better court vision and passing skills than Jerebko, which would be nice in the Spurs' system.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I think Timmy is going to announce his retirement the way Robinson did. We'll know all season, that it's his last season. I think it could happen this summer, especially if the Spurs win the championship again. And i absolutely expect a repeat. That said, could a good case be made for trading the 17 1st round pick for a spot in this summers draft where the Spurs could draft Kaminsky? Hear me out.

The pick is going to have appeal. People may expect a post-Timmy tanking, there should be some takers. We know Leonard is the next great Spur. Let's say you don't think Kaminsky is Dirk 2.0, and wouldn't be Pops wet dream. Who else could you get in this years draft, for the Spurs 17 1st rounder? Give that player Timmy's final season, to groom. And don't forget Kawhi. How high is that 17 1st even going to be, without Tim?

[Andthentherewas21]

Consider the following 3 lines, (per 48)



Rebounds
6.4
8.9
7.8


Assists
8.9
9.5
6.3


Turnovers
4.7
4.2
3.7


Blocks
0.6
0.4
0.6


Steals
2.0
1.8
2.6


Fouls
4.2
3.8
3.7



The first is current Manu. The second is a 26 year old wing, who is not held in exceptionally high regard by his team. The third is Prime (06/07) Ginobili

The obvious point I'm leaving out here is scoring.
So here it is



Pts
22.3
16.5
29.6


FG%
42.6
42.9
46.4


TS%
54.4
48.2
60.9


FGA
17.8
15.8
20.4


3FGA
7.8
2.5
7.7


FTA
6.2
3.0
8.9


% of FG's asst
59
38
59



Again, current Manu, Other player, Prime Manu.

Obviously, our mystery player doesn't score like Manu. He doesn't draw fouls, nor shoot the 3 as much. The other key number, however, is the percentage of fg's assisted. Manu gets 50% more setups; In the Spurs system, it seems likely that Mr. Mystery could get more efficient.

Mr. Mystery is Evan Turner (Boston). He's on an expiring next year (approximately $3.5 million). He's not Manu, but our second unit looks much better with a strongly creative wing sharing PG with our backups. IMO Turner is undervalued, and if we can pick him up halfway cheap, say pick two of three: ( Mills or a Cojo/Baynes S&T ), ( 2015 and 2016 second round picks ), (swap picks 25 & 55 for 33), we should do so. Also, with our ability to get players better looks, his scoring might pick up a fair bit...

Turner's career Offensive Rtg is 96 which is terrible, and has never broken 100 for a season. Its not that he doesn't score, its that he does so at an incredibly inefficient rate like many of his stats. His career Defensive rtg is 105 which would be equal to Manu's worst season defensively. There is a reason he is valued at what he is. He would probably be more productive with the Spurs but if your banking on him assuming the Ginobili role, your going to be disappointed, Tyreke Evans is probably the closest thing at this point and its doubtful the Spurs could get him without significantly reducing their depth.

BTW if he is undervalued, the asking price should be far below giving up Mills or Cojo/Baynes + multiple 2nd rounders.

[rudwick]

Trade idea:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ol4ojgz

Phil gets Tony
We get a defensive PG and a Beli replacement
Boston gets a stretch 4

[Chinook]

^Almost bad enough to make me want to close this thread, tbh.

[CGD]

So much turns on whether TD and Manu return, including whether to move Parker. If even one of those guys stays, so does Tony and the only asset outside of KL that would fetch anything meaningful.

[Andthentherewas21]

The Detroit Pistons have acquired forward Ersan Ilyasova from the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for forwards Caron Butler and Shawne Williams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13059724/detroit-pistons-acquire-ersan-ilyasova-milwaukee-bucks-caron-butler-shawne-williams

[CGD]

The Detroit Pistons have acquired forward Ersan Ilyasova from the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for forwards Caron Butler and Shawne Williams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13059724/detroit-pistons-acquire-ersan-ilyasova-milwaukee-bucks-caron-butler-shawne-williams

Nice pickup by Detroit. This all but signals that Monroe is no longer in their future.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

The Detroit Pistons have acquired forward Ersan Ilyasova from the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for forwards Caron Butler and Shawne Williams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13059724/detroit-pistons-acquire-ersan-ilyasova-milwaukee-bucks-caron-butler-shawne-williams

gross.

[apalisoc_9]

^Almost bad enough to make me want to close this thread, tbh.

How is that bad from a team standpoint?

[Chinook]

How is that bad from a team standpoint?

It's bad because it's impossible (Bargs is expiring and cannot be traded) and it's a horrible deal from Boston's perspective. I definitely wouldn't mind swapping out Bradley for Parker, though.

[apalisoc_9]

It's bad because it's impossible (Bargs is expiring and cannot be traded) and it's a horrible deal from Boston's perspective. I definitely wouldn't mind swapping out Bradley for Parker, though.

Didn't really know details of the former, my bad. But yeah my thought process was Bradley for Parker, but as thanks for pointing that out..

[raybies]

Brooklyn is apparently dangling Mason Plumlee for a higher pick. Not sure if their pick is included but I'd trade our first for him.

How high of pick do you think he could net them? And is he more valuable then Splitter in your opinion?

[ace3g]

RealGM @RealGM
(https://twitter.com/RealGM)Clippers Discuss Deal To Aquire Lance Stephenson From Hornets For Spencer Hawes, Matt Barnes: basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/238206… (http://t.co/sxEOyaewhL) pic.twitter.com/qdF2C2rY4t (http://t.co/qdF2C2rY4t)

[benstanfield]

RealGM @RealGM
(https://twitter.com/RealGM)Clippers Discuss Deal To Aquire Lance Stephenson From Hornets For Spencer Hawes, Matt Barnes: basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/238206… (http://t.co/sxEOyaewhL) pic.twitter.com/qdF2C2rY4t (http://t.co/qdF2C2rY4t)



Yuck. Jordan still an idiot GM, Doc still an idiot GM. That trade is like two retards trying to hump a doorknob.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I guess it's not a bad deal for the Hornets. Lance was a disaster, might as well see if you can be the team Hawes redeems himself on.

I don't like it for the Clippers, though. Any player who replaces Barnes needs to stay within that role of 3-and-D, and Lance shot terribly from 3 last year. It's too easy to imagine Lance trying to save the Clippers himself in a playoff game and failing horribly.

[DPG21920]

Brooklyn is apparently dangling Mason Plumlee for a higher pick. Not sure if their pick is included but I'd trade our first for him.

How high of pick do you think he could net them? And is he more valuable then Splitter in your opinion?

Plumlee would likely fetch a higher pick than SA has and he is no where close to Splitter's level.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Hearing that Clippers and Hornets have agreed in principle on a Lance Stephenson trade and on course to proceed with trade call tonight

[palangi]

Plumlee would likely fetch a higher pick than SA has and he is no where close to Splitter's level.

You're right he is far above his level. A much higher ceiling. Much stronger finisher on the pick and roll.

https://youtu.be/JU6zl8MwGII

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)The Clippers have acquired Lance Stephenson in a trade that sends Spencer Hawes and Matt Barnes to Charlotte, league sources tell Yahoo.

[DPG21920]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)The Clippers have acquired Lance Stephenson in a trade that sends Spencer Hawes and Matt Barnes to Charlotte, league sources tell Yahoo.



I have no idea what CHA is doing there. Poor Al Jefferson. I bet he wishes he opted out.

[DPG21920]

Great deal for LAC regardless of Lance's on court play. Another good team just got potentially better and gave up absolutely nothing of value. Damn it.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Sources: Hornets undecided about whether they'll keep Matt Barnes for next season, when he's due $3.5M in the final year of his contract.

[palangi]

Great deal for LAC regardless of Lance's on court play. Another good team just got potentially better and gave up absolutely nothing of value. Damn it.

I wouldn't say that.Stephenson is a big time locker room cancer. I bet he ends up doing way more damage. With the personalities of Paul, Griffin, and Jordan. There just isn't enough basketball.

[exstatic]

Stephenson is an idiot. Guys like that can't help you win the LoB.

[DPG21920]

Stephenson is an idiot. Guys like that can't help you win the LoB.

Neither can Barnes or Hawes. At least if Lance fails, he's gone next year off the books.

[Ocotillo]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Sources: Hornets undecided about whether they'll keep Matt Barnes for next season, when he's due $3.5M in the final year of his contract.



Always heard he was a west coast guy that only wanted to play for west coast teams. I bet Charlotte jettisons him.

[DPG21920]

Always heard he was a west coast guy that only wanted to play for west coast teams. I bet Charlotte jettisons him.

They will waive him. His contract is only 1M guaranteed if they waive him - so they will save 2.5M by doing so and don't really have use for him anyways.

[exstatic]

They will waive him. His contract is only 1M guaranteed if they waive him - so they will save 2.5M by doing so and don't really have use for him anyways.

I think they'll try to trade him, first, and if that doesn't pan out, then they'll waive him. He's not really of use to them, but other teams may throw them a small asset to acquire him.

[ace3g]

Matt Moore CBS @MattMooreCBS
(https://twitter.com/MattMooreCBS)Report: Nuggets looking to trade Ty Lawson for No.6 pick cbsprt.co/1G5jd5T (http://t.co/3eaxy0C0aS) pic.twitter.com/b3sS2sYi9l (http://t.co/b3sS2sYi9l)