General Trades Discussion

[SpurNation]

And it was really funny, being a comedian and all. Besides that, why would the Raptors trade Bosh now when they can offer him the most money come 2010 free agency and can do a sign and trade for assets. Why take a lowball offer before the trade deadline?

Yes they could offer more. But Bosh seems to be wanting more than just a salary and he's in the driver's seat next year. If the Raptors want to genuinly get something in value for the return...they might have to do it this year.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/295047-bta-what-about-bosh

Would the Spurs give up the rights to Splitter? Would the Raptors accept that as well. Would the Spurs benefit that much by having Bosh?

February might be very telling of the answers to these questions. But as of now...if needed to help the Spurs win this year...I can't think of another big that could be brought in that would be as available as Bosh.

If there is/would be...I'm open for suggestions.

[Chieflion]

The 76ers suck so bad, some of their guys might be available as well. They are looking for a salary dump because revenue dropped so badly (at least that is what I heard from Sixer fans). Iggy might be available.

Seperate post entirely: Rumor has it that Ramon Sessions may be shipped out. And I like Ryan Gomes from the Wolves. Because Sessions cannot be traded until 3 months after he signed his contract. This deal would need to be done after the timeline.

The Spurs give out Roger Mason ($3,780,000) + Ian Mahinmi ($989,670) + Matt Bonner ($3,256,500) = $8,026,170

The Timberwolves give out Ryan Gomes ($3,892,500) + Ramon Sessions ($3,670,667) = $7,563,167

Don't bother checking this with trade machines because it wouldn't work as I have explained earlier. The numbers work in the CBA.

Explaination for the Spurs: We get a backup PG in Ramon Sessions and shift George Hill to full time SG, he can handle PG duties in sporadic minutes or when there is an injury. George Hill's natural position is the SG, and his potential can be maximised there. he is clearly not a playmaker, he is a slasher though. We also get a competent backup small forward/power forward in Ryan Gomes and get size for the SF spot. You would not want Michael Finley playing minutes, would you? The Spurs also get some tax relief, albeit only a little. Oh ya, Sessions can play some 2 guard for a while too, so you can play both Sessions and Hill together for some stretches when guys like Manu and Tony need some rest.

Explanation for the Wolves: Both Sessions and Gomes do not fit the team's future plan. They have Flynn and Rubio's rights. They are also long contracts. The Wolves have expressed interest in the 2010 FA class (that is what Kahn said), with players like Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay to accompany Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. Our expiring contracts give the Wolves more cap space come 2010. They also get a prospect in Ian Mahinmi, not much, but hey, it is something. If the Wolves don't like him, he is just another expiring contract. The Spurs might add a 1st, though, but the Wolves have too many draft picks or we might give them Malik Hairston. Roger Mason and Matt Bonner are what the Wolves need to stretch the floor. The Wolves lack shooters.

So, do both teams do it? I thought a lot about this and it is certainly not a one-sided trade.

It is now 15 December. This means that any player signed this year can officially be traded.

[RiverwalkParade]

I would be 100% on board with the above post. Love Gomes' game and think we could use Hill at the two more often than at the point.

How about this trade:

Mason/Finley/Bogans to NO
for
Posey/Devin Brown

NO gets to dump some salary now that they are a franchise in trouble and get a poor man's Posey in return along with a seasoned vet for the locker room and a shooter.

We get a clutch player in Posey not to mention a great defender and another scoring threat in Brown who gets to return to SA once and for all.

[Chieflion]

I would be 100% on board with the above post. Love Gomes' game and think we could use Hill at the two more often than at the point.

How about this trade:

Mason/Finley/Bogans to NO
for
Posey/Devin Brown

NO gets to dump some salary now that they are a franchise in trouble and get a poor man's Posey in return along with a seasoned vet for the locker room and a shooter.

We get a clutch player in Posey not to mention a great defender and another scoring threat in Brown who gets to return to SA once and for all.
Posey is done being good and Devin Brown sucks. Sorry, the Spurs would never do this deal because of Posey's shitty contract.

[outmap]

Except for Atlanta and Dallas, I think any superstar from a team with an expiring contract can be had before the trade deadline "IF" the team feels that it can't win a championship this year and, they are certain that their superstar will bolt out after the season.
- So here's to Toronto, Cleveland or Miami to lose a few more games than they are comfortable with.

[RiverwalkParade]

Is there a servicable big man or a defensive wing in the league that we can get in return for Finley/Ian? It seems that they are the most expendable and could possibly give us something in return. Just not sure if there is a team out there that would want those two.

[MaNu4Tres]

Roger Mason, Ian Mahimni, and Michael Finley and a future 1st rounder for

Jared Jefferies and Wilson Chandler

Why would Knicks do it?

Knicks would clear another 6.8 million off the books next year as they prepare for the summer of Le'Bron.

Why would Spurs do it?

Spurs would get an athletic long three in Chandler to come off the bench that can put the ball on the floor and hi

Jefferies has been a bust for the majority of his contract, but has been playing decent as of late. Jefferies contract for another year at 6.8 million would be worth it considering the addition of Chandler off the bench.


This would give the Spurs a lineup as such:

McDyess
Duncan
Jefferson
Bogans
Parker

Bench:

Manu
Hill
Chandler
Blair
Ratliff
Bonner
Jefferies

* Inactive list: Hairston, Haislip


Just a thought..

[Chieflion]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=969821

Spurs get Hedo Turklogu, Kyle Korver and Chris Bosh.
Spurs give up Richard Jefferson, DeJuan Blair, Manu Ginobili and Antonio McDyess.

Raptors get Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko and DeJuan Blair.
Raptors give up Chris Bosh and Hedo Turklogu.

Jazz get Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess.
Jazz give up Kyle Korver, Carlos Boozer and Andrei Kirilenko.

Read the link for more information.

[mountainballer]

first i thought: oh no, not another of those proposals. but it makes some sense for all teams. the downside for the Spurs: if Bosh leaves to play with Wade in Miami or maybe even Lebron in NY, or he goes to Chicago (a very good chance he takes one of those offers), then the Spurs will have traded RJ, Dice, Manu and Blair for Hedo (who is on a huge contract and on the wrong side of 30), but they also won't be a player in the 2010 free agency. (just 8 million cap space).
big big gamble.

[SpurNation]

Hedo's contract would pretty much prevent the Spurs from being legitiment players in keeping Bosh unless they could dump Hedo to another team.

I agree with mountainballer...big big gamble.

[neboat]

Darko Milicic anyone? Seems like he isn't happy and is going back to Europe next year. Maybe we can grab him from the Knicks for 2nd rd pick?

http://www.freep.com/article/20091217/SPORTS03/91217045/1051/SPORTS/Darko-Milicic-going-back-to-Europe-next-season

[Chieflion]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=969812
I actually like it. I was just wondering about Elton Brand's contract and health, but we secure our starting wing and defender in Iggy for years. Philly seems to want the Knicks pick from Utah though.

Spurs outgoing: Richard Jefferson, Manu Ginobili, Antonio McDyess
Spurs incoming: Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, Kyle Korver

Jazz outgoing: Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko, Kyle Korver
Jazz incoming: Richard Jefferson, Manu Ginobili, Antonio McDyess

76ers outgoing: Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala
76ers incoming: Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko


Case for San Antonio: They create the best starting frontcourt in the NBA with Brand and Duncan while reloading with an all-star calibre wing in Iguodala who's just entering his prime. Korver provides some financial flexibility when his contract expires after the season...

Parker
Mason/Finley
Iguodala/Korver
Brand/Bonner
Duncan/Bonner


Case for Utah: They upgrade their SG and SF positions with Ginobili and Jefferson without sacrificing any of their longterm core. McDyess provides solid minutes as well as leadership to the frontcourt. Boozer's departure clears the way for Millsap to take on a significant role...

Williams/Maynor
Ginobili/Brewer
Jefferson/Brewer
Millsap/McDyess
Okur/Millsap


Case for Philly: They give themselves complete and total financial freedom for the summer of 2011 when Kirilenko, Dalembert, Kapono and Willie Green come off the books clearing approx. 40 million. Boozer's expiring could be flipped for longterm assets and picks...

Williams/Holiday
Iverson/Williams/Green
Young/Kirilenko
Boozer/Speights
Dalembert//Boozer/Speights

[HarlemHeat37]

Why does Utah want this though?..

Boozer's contract comes off the books either way, so they're basically just getting Richard Jefferson's bad contract and McDyess for an extra year, in exchange for giving up Kirilenko's large contract that expires before RJ's does?..

If Philly wants their pick from the Knicks, that's even less incentive for them to do it..am I missing something?..

I like it for us..that would still allow us to sign Splitter, we would have to fill the roster with some minimum players at the end though, so using Hairston and re-signing Bogans would be good options..

I don't see why Utah or Philly does it though..

[Chieflion]

Why does Utah want this though?..

Boozer's contract comes off the books either way, so they're basically just getting Richard Jefferson's bad contract and McDyess for an extra year, in exchange for giving up Kirilenko's large contract that expires before RJ's does?..

If Philly wants their pick from the Knicks, that's even less incentive for them to do it..am I missing something?..

I like it for us..that would still allow us to sign Splitter, we would have to fill the roster with some minimum players at the end though, so using Hairston and re-signing Bogans would be good options..

I don't see why Utah or Philly does it though..
For Utah, Kirlenko's contract is shaved off, I think you got the wrong idea, RJ's contract expires in 2011, same as Kirilenko and provides the wing volume scorer for Utah. and Millsap gets some deserving playing time. For Philly, they shave off Elton Brand's contract.

[HarlemHeat37]

Ya, I thought RJ expired later..his contract is similar though, I don't see the point of doing that..it just seems like a lateral move for Utah..if they have to give up their NY pick, why would they do it?..

I understand why Philly would think about it, but is dumping Brand's bad contract worth giving up Iguodala?..I guess it would depend on how high they are on him for the future..

[Chieflion]

Ya, I thought RJ expired later..his contract is similar though, I don't see the point of doing that..it just seems like a lateral move for Utah..if they have to give up their NY pick, why would they do it?..

I understand why Philly would think about it, but is dumping Brand's bad contract worth giving up Iguodala?..I guess it would depend on how high they are on him for the future..
Utah gets Ginobili and Jefferson, two guys who can score when needed to, which Kirilenko does not provide. I don't know whether they will give up the 1st though.

For Philly, I had the same thoughts as you did, but come 2011, the 76ers will have huge cap space after Kirilenko and Dalembert's contracts expire. Sacrificing Iggy would shift Thad Young to ful time small forward, and Marresse Spieghts after his injury would get more playing time.

[SpurNation]

Doing this quick. Gotta run. But...What does Minnesota stand to loose this year? What does Toronto stand to loose next year?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5340337

Opinions?

[HarlemHeat37]

I kind of understand why the Raptors would potentially do it..why would Minnesota though?..Kevin Love is a very good prospect, but they'll trade him AND Sessions just to get back Splitter, a guy that might not even come over AND could be worse than Love?..

[Chieflion]

Doing this quick. Gotta run. But...What does Minnesota stand to loose this year? What does Toronto stand to loose next year?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5340337

Opinions?
Minnesota spits in your face. They should be the one getting Bosh.

[ynh]

No way Minny trades a young prospect at PG and a young double double guy in Love for a guy stuck in Europe who they can only hope would be as good as the player they are giving away (Love) and for a guy that is on his last leg.

[SCdac]

I'd do this trade.

Duncan next to a young, promising center is probably the highest on my wish list. Sell Parker as high as possible, while getting a veteran PG back.

Spurs get:

Al Horford (4.3 mil)
Mike Bibby (6.2 mil)

Hawks get:

Tony Parker (12.6 mil)
Theo Ratliff (league min)

Spurs lineup:

C: Al Horford / DeJuan Blair
PF: Tim Duncan / Antonio McDyess
SF: Richard Jefferson / Keith Bogans
SG: Roger Mason / Manu Ginobili
PG: Mike Bibby / George Hill

[Mal]

Why would Hawks give their core in theirs possibly best franchise season to come ?

[Chieflion]

I'd do this trade.

Duncan next to a young, promising center is probably the highest on my wish list. Sell Parker as high as possible, while getting a veteran PG back.

Spurs get:

Al Horford (4.3 mil)
Mike Bibby (6.2 mil)

Hawks get:

Tony Parker (12.6 mil)
Theo Ratliff (league min)

Spurs lineup:

C: Al Horford / DeJuan Blair
PF: Tim Duncan / Antonio McDyess
SF: Richard Jefferson / Keith Bogans
SG: Roger Mason / Manu Ginobili
PG: Mike Bibby / George Hill
Al Horford arguably has more trade value than Tony Parker.

[admiralsnackbar]

Why would Hawks give their core in theirs possibly best franchise season to come ?

Bingo: most trades Spurs fans suggest care little about how the proposed trades behoove the trade partners.

[venitian navigator]

I agree we should propose trades, at least, possible...but at the some time there are trades out there totally unbalanced just because of salary drops, like the last one that gave to the Thunders Mynor ( a player that would have been important for us 'couse of his play making skills).
Pairing good value players (that we have) with expiring contracts (that we still have) should give us something good in return...just have to wait for the right moment...

[SpurNation]

I kind of understand why the Raptors would potentially do it..why would Minnesota though?..Kevin Love is a very good prospect, but they'll trade him AND Sessions just to get back Splitter, a guy that might not even come over AND could be worse than Love?..

I understand this thought. And as in trade scenarios sometimes a team doesn't benefit immediately but rather looks to the possibility of benefitting in the near future. Minnesota isn't looking very impressive thus far and is looking more like needing to re-evaluate their roster for the near future.

On the other hand, Totonto has new faces getting used to each other as well and would think the least likely to want to do this might be them since it appears they are playing more cohesively than in the beginning of the season.

My thought was if Toronto still believes they could loose out on Bosh they might want to do this now. Minnesota just might want to throw in the towel this season and look to be major players in the draft and free agency next year.

[Mal]

Trade machine links not working. Make a screenshot or just write your proposal.

[Spur-Addict]

Caron Butler would be nice.

[mosdef17]

Word that John Salmons could be available, I wanted this guy a year ago when Kings were looking to trade him... don't know what we could do for the trade though.

[The Franchise]

Caron Butler would be nice.

To injury prone.

[mystargtr34]

Tony Parker with Joe Johnson would give you the Brandon Roy - Andre Miller effect. Parker becomes an average player when he isnt the primary creator, and both those guys need the ball in their hands to be effective.

But, i like Al Horford so i like the thinking... just dont think the Hawks would do that one..

[Duncan2177]

Roger Mason Matt Bonner Theo Ratliff for Marcus Camby?

[Johnny RIngo]

Roger Mason Matt Bonner Theo Ratliff for Marcus Camby?

Why would the Clippers trade ONE expiring contract for THREE expirers? Might as well keep Camby. Clips won't trade him unless they get some young players/draft picks back.

[tomtom]

How bout Finley for Ryan Hollins. He's still pretty young and might develop a bit more. But at worst he's a 7 footer that plays with a lot of energy and only 2 years on his contract.

[FeZZy]

I've wanted Brendan Haywood for some time...he's cheap and effective 6 mil on the last year of his contract :downspin:

How about

Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, and Finley for Brendan Haywood and Randy Foye

Washington get some cap relief and starts over while having the option to sign Mason in the summer and him to get back to the place where it all started while Matt Bonner can be effective on the open court and Washington ultimately saving 2.5 mil by waiving Finley.

San Antonio we get a real Center wit and expiring contract and a promising young player in Randy Foye who would complete well as a combo guard

[FeZZy]

Another Washington Trade

Antawn Jamison for Matt Boner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, and Ian Mahinmi

Washington: Same as before just another EC with Ian

San Antonio: Matt Bonner version 2.0 not only can he shoot from three but he has an amazing post game and has good size at 6-9 and can match with the Rashard Rasheed and Odom while also being one of those no ego type players I really would like to see this guy in a Spurs uniform the only thing that's a killer is his contract, 3 years left

[Chomag]

Another Washington Trade

Antawn Jamison for Matt Boner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, and Ian Mahinmi

Washington: Same as before just another EC with Ian

San Antonio: Matt Bonner version 2.0 not only can he shoot from three but he has an amazing post game and has good size at 6-9 and can match with the Rashard Rasheed and Odom while also being one of those no ego type players I really would like to see this guy in a Spurs uniform the only thing that's a killer is his contract, 3 years left

I have allways liked Antawn Jamerson and his game ever since I got to watch him play with Vince Carter in the Final 4 here at the Alamo Dome. From everything that I have read he has allways been a grade A class guy.

Having sayed that I have allways dreamed of Spurs somehow landing on the team.

[Mal]

Can`t see Spurs with 5 over 10 mln contracts, just can`t

[ace3g]

The 2 Centers I would like the Spurs to look at during the trade deadline are Brad Miller and Brendan Haywood

Brendan Haywood for obvious reasons: Wizards basically will have a firesale, he is a long true Center that can block shots and grab rebounds, someone that you could place next to Duncan in the starting lineup and have two 7 footers.

Brad Miller: like I mentioned with Nocioni earlier, Miller hasn't gotten many minutes this season with the Bulls, he is someone the Spurs have looked at in the past, although he has a similar skill set to Dice, he is a true 7 footer and would help with our lack of length at the C position (especially if Pop won't give Mahinmi minutes to develop)

If we were able to acquire either of these 2 players I would like our chances, finishing the season and heading into the playoffs

[venitian navigator]

deadline is appraching and here are some possible trades for teams looking to eliminate long term salaries for (our) expiring (or semi expiring) contracts :

1) trade for Maggette (my favourite) : for Ratliff, Finley, Bonner, Bogans works (then G.S can cut one, two, three or all of them which we can re-sign at the minimum...works for everybody if G.S is the the mind mode of clearing space for next season, players included 'cause they make more money)

trade for Prince and Hamilton : Jefferson, Finley, Bonner works (Detroit want trade both of them...thought is if they both are still phisically o.k.)

trade for Nocioni : Finley, Bonner, Ratliff works (like before, sac can then cut all of them and we can re-sign them)


G.S. and Detroit are probably already thinking to next season so a trade like that could be easier to make...

I don't see a valueble big coming to us this season (for Haywood, Murphy etc etc there will be better offers than ours) but a player that can play the guard/forward position a la Maggette or Nocioni (both of them more than decent defenders and good rebounders) imho could definitely halp our team..

[lmbebo]

What about Brand and T. Young for Jeffersion and FInley

[tomtom]

What about Brand and T. Young for Jeffersion and FInley

That actually makes some sense for the Spurs. Brand has a pretty bad contract but he's playing much better as of lately and Young is very good young talent. Young isn't so hot with the Sixers this year and they definitely wanna move Brand. Not sure if Spurs want to commit to Brand and if Sixers are willing to give up Young.

[Patrick Davis]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yktnzaw

[JR3]

What about Brand and T. Young for Jeffersion and FInley

I wouldn't do this if i were the sixers.

[RiverwalkParade]

How about next year we move TP for Al Jefferson and RJ for CP3?

Maybe we can make something of those expirings.

[AFBlue]

If it's not too early to start discussing the draft or free agents, then it's not too early to discuss potential trades. Here's a trade idea suggested by Bruno in another thread...


When I look at Heat situation, there is a trade opportunity that strikes me for Spurs with Daequan Cook.

Cook has been horrible this year and he has a $2.2M salary next year. Heat will likely try to dump to create more cap space.

Spurs can absorb Cook salary by trading 3 of their 4 players with a non guaranteed contract (Jerrels, Temple, Hairston and Gee). They were also very high on Cook during the draft and they need a shooter with Mason gone.

What asset Heat is ready to give up to create this cap space? They have the 18th pick in the draft. This pick will also take some cap space. Could they package Cook and #18 for some players with non guaranteed contracts? This trade will cost some money to Spurs, are they ready to spend it?

Everything Bruno said is true, from the fact that the Spurs will need to replace a bunch of role players to the fact that they rated him highly as a draft prospect in '07. In fact, I seem to recall timvp giving some inside information that Cook was their top-rated target from that draft, with Splitter being second.

The accumulation of multiple non-guaranteed contracts makes this deal extremely plausible. I really appreciate the insight from Bruno as to how something like this could go down. It's something outside of the usual "trade RJ" or "trade Parker" ideas. :tu

My thoughts...the mid-second round pick and some cash would be enough to get the Spurs to take on his salary.

[jesterbobman]

I think that Cook trade makes sense, though I think the Spurs getting one of their second round picks(41, 42, 48) is more likely than the 18th pick. Salmons for expirings resulted in a swap of picks, and Salmons is a better player(though with a bigger contract). I think a 20 for 18 swap, or that +49 for 41 is more likely than getting the 1st outright. I'd do any of the scenarios, though I think I'd prefer if it resulted in keeping Temple.

[mountainballer]

Cook is an enigma, but might be worth the risk, if he could be had for cheap. I agree that the Heat are likely willing to dump him to get more cap space, but I doubt it will take an added 1st rounder to find a team that takes him.

as said, Cook is an enigma. it reminds me a bit about the Beno situation in his 3rd year. fans and team seem to have lost patience in him.
he was really really bad this year. I seems, that he never recovered from his shoulder injury.
he strained his shooting shoulder at the beginning of last season, he returned after two weeks, but it might have been way to early. (he said it feels tight and it affects his shot). from there on he struggled to find his shot, as a consequence lost his minutes and obviously also his confidence.
however, a new situation and (most of all) a new shooting coach might do wonders.
Cook is a shooter, without his shot he is just only a borderline NBA player. he is a better defender than given credit, though. limited by his size, but pretty good against SGs in the 6-3 to 6-6 range. this alone would be an upgrade over Mason. at just 23 he might still be able to improve his ball handling.
(in the combo role he would be as miscasted as Mason)

[Bruno]

If Heat doesn't want to add a first round pick to unload Cook, I wouldn't to the trade unless Heat send a lot of cash. Spurs could do better than Cook via FA and their LLE (like Raja Bell). Spurs should have a good incentive to go with Cook. A mid second round pick and/or swapping #20 with #18 isn't enough to me.

[pad300]

Question: Is it time to start looking a new FO? There have been a series of greviously poor decisions:

1) Trading for Jefferson
2) Not resigning Bruce
3) Gutting our front line to 2 semi-trustworthy bodies; Blair being a rook -(Trading Ratliff for nothing, letting Haislip go )
4) Not dumping either of the chokers: Bonner, Mason
5) Not getting anything of value for Finley's expiring

Not to mention all the opportunity costs (no development of Mahinmi, Not going after John Salmons)

(and in retrospect, Hill for Dragic looks REALLY bad right now...).

[jesterbobman]

With the statistically likely possibility that we lose this round(Say 60% of winning at home, 25% chance winning on the road ~2% Chance of winning series), are there realistic trades where we could add more talent and/or a better fit for our system?
Just as examples what would it take to make the following trades make sense from our end, Jeffersons expiring contract For:
Peja(and What else, Draft pick? Of course, they may make a Peja + Collison offer to someone else)
Dalembert(Depending on where the Sixers draft and who they pick, mainly an option if they go with a Big)
ATL(Marvin Williams and a resigned Childress)
DET(Villanueva and 1 other long term deal(Hamilton?)
GS(Maggette and Resigned Morrow)
TOR(Bargnani and pick or Derozan or Jack)

I'm thinking of the Fact that RJ fits best in a running Style with a Pass first PG, and maybe the experiment hasn't worked. I don't know about how realistic those trades are(eg I doubt TOR trades Bargnani, I'm just putting it out there), but I think it's quite possible that a move is made that involves a change to the construction of the team and RJ's contract is the easiest way to do that.

[yavozerb]

We all know the spurs will be looking for shooting this offseason. Could Turkolgu be an option this offseason and would the spurs be willing to take on 40+ mil left on his contract? A package of Turk + Belinelli for RJ isnt sounding to bad right now and would seem to help out with 3 pt shooting, but that contract for turk is tricky.

[Darkwaters]

(and in retrospect, Hill for Dragic looks REALLY bad right now...).

No - it wasn't Hill for Dragic. It was Hairston, Blair and 500k for Dragic.

[FeZZy]

I know this sounds nearly impossible but is there anyway we could do a sign-and-trade with toronto for bosh? Would you give george hill for him along with RJ?

[AFBlue]

We all know the spurs will be looking for shooting this offseason. Could Turkolgu be an option this offseason and would the spurs be willing to take on 40+ mil left on his contract? A package of Turk + Belinelli for RJ isnt sounding to bad right now and would seem to help out with 3 pt shooting, but that contract for turk is tricky.

Thought about Turkoglu and his ability to shoot from all over the floor, but I think the Spurs would be repeating the mistake of not getting a player with the "killer instinct".

My preference for an RJ trade would be...

1) Stephen Jackson - killer instinct and ability to hit Js
2) Corey Maggette - killer instinct and ability to hit Js...but no 3pt threat
3) Hedo Turkoglu - ability to hit Js and facilitate...but no killer instinct
4) Rip Hamilton - killer instinct and ability to hit Js...but old
5) LeBron...j/k

[HarlemHeat37]

Hell no on Turkoglu and Hamilton..

Not necessarily pointing at you, but a lot of people here like Turkoglu for some reason..he's one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, his work ethic is gone, he's already on the decline and can barely create his own offense..his game was severely inflated by Orlando's system and by playing with Dwight Howard..

Andre Iguodala is my favorite semi-realistic option for Jefferson, although I don't think the Spurs FO would take his contract back..Maggette might be the most realistic though..

[MaNu4Tres]

Hell no on Turkoglu and Hamilton..

Not necessarily pointing at you, but a lot of people here like Turkoglu for some reason..he's one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, his work ethic is gone, he's already on the decline and can barely create his own offense..his game was severely inflated by Orlando's system and by playing with Dwight Howard..

.

Full of win.

Don't understand the infatuation some people have with Turkoglu or Hamilton.

I wouldn't mind a Jefferson for Iggy deal in the short term perspective. That's if Philly was desperate to get rid of his contract. I just don't like the long-term perspective in taking on that long of a contract.

Another one which I wouldn't mind is Jefferson for Curry and Wilson Chandler (Bruno mentioned it).

Or Jefferson for Maggette/Azubuike. I just don't see Holt taking on Maggette's contract.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would love getting Ill Will, but I don't think the Knicks move him for that package..they're still very high on him, and he's probably the 2nd most popular Knicks player in NY next to Gallo..

He would be perfect for the Spurs though..he has all-star potential with the right surroundings and coaching, and he has also shown that he can guard perimeter bigs, which has been a problem for the Spurs..

I don't see any reason for the Knicks to make that trade..what do you guys think is the logic behind that potential move from the Knicks' side of things?..

[AFBlue]

Hell no on Turkoglu and Hamilton..

Not necessarily pointing at you, but a lot of people here like Turkoglu for some reason..he's one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, his work ethic is gone, he's already on the decline and can barely create his own offense..his game was severely inflated by Orlando's system and by playing with Dwight Howard..

Andre Iguodala is my favorite semi-realistic option for Jefferson, although I don't think the Spurs FO would take his contract back..Maggette might be the most realistic though..

I forgot about Iguadola...he'd have to be at the top of the list given his youth, athleticism and all-around game. While you're right to say "semi-realistic", I actually think it's for another reason. Given his youth and upside, I don't see the Sixers giving him up simply for an expiring contract.

As for Turkoglu and Hamilton, they are as unattractive as the rest I suppose. For one reason or another teams for these players are likely willing to get rid of them for an expiring contract...that's tells you what kind of value they're actually bringing relative to their contract.

[MaNu4Tres]

I would love getting Ill Will, but I don't think the Knicks move him for that package..they're still very high on him, and he's probably the 2nd most popular Knicks player in NY next to Gallo..

He would be perfect for the Spurs though..he has all-star potential with the right surroundings and coaching, and he has also shown that he can guard perimeter bigs, which has been a problem for the Spurs..

I don't see any reason for the Knicks to make that trade..what do you guys think is the logic behind that potential move from the Knicks' side of things?..

If they strike out on any marquee free agent targets I think Jefferson could have significant value for an offense coached by D'Antoni.

What makes it even more attractive to New York is that it wouldn't be much of a gamble for the fact that his contract expires after next year.

Now if Knicks are completely sold on Chandler and have plans to resign him after the 2011 season, then I don't think it's possible this situation could play out without the Spurs giving up a pick.

[AFBlue]

If they strike out on any marquee free agent targets I think Jefferson could have significant value for an offense coached by D'Antoni.

What makes it even more attractive to New York is that it wouldn't be much of a gamble for the fact that his contract expires after next year.

Now if Knicks are completely sold on Chandler and have plans to resign him after the 2011 season, then I don't think it's possible this situation could play out without the Spurs giving up a pick.

No way RJ nets Chandler, with or without a pick. A swing-for-the-fences type deal that could bring Chandler to the Spurs though...

Spurs trade:
Tony Parker
Richard Jefferson

Knicks trade:
David Lee (S&T)
Wilson Chandler

[MaNu4Tres]

No way RJ nets Chandler, with or without a pick. A swing-for-the-fences type deal that could bring Chandler to the Spurs though...

Spurs trade:
Tony Parker
Richard Jefferson

Knicks trade:
David Lee (S&T)
Wilson Chandler

With all due respect AFBlue, Spurs would be beyond retarded to make such a move.

[024]

i've been wondering, should the spurs lay low next year and make a final push during duncan's final year or do a similar all in move again. by that i mean taking on a crippling contract like okafor and/or posey in exchange for richard jefferson's expiring $15 million.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

what are the chances of getting rudy fernandez or travis outlaw

[Bruno]

The idea behind a RJ for Curry+Chandler is that it isn't a simple trade but that it's an extend and trade.

The deal should happen before July:
RJ opt out with the promise of getting a $40M/5 years extension with a $5M starting salary. He is then traded to NY for Curry and Chandler.

For Knicks, they swap Chandler for Jefferson and creates $8.4M in cap space (Jefferson 2011 salary would be $5M, Curry+Chandler one is $13.4M). For example, if they use that cap space on David Lee, this trade is for Knicks Curry+Chandler for Lee+Jefferson. not bad...

For Spurs, they basically paid $1.8M less to have Chandler instead of Jefferson in 2011. If they like him, they can re-sign during the 2011 summer when he will be a RFA.

[jesterbobman]

If Jefferson is resigned and traded at 5 million a year, We couldn't take on more than 6.35 million, Which a Curry+Chandler combo exceeds. They could take on more Salary, being under the cap, but we couldn't as even with RJ opting out we don't have enough room to take on that money.
I think RJ is most valuable to teams that have a great Pass first PG and need an upgrade at SF(eg, New Orleans with Paul) or to teams that are looking to create 2011 cap space(Indy, Milwaukee, Philly etc) as his EC creates a ton of room for them.

[Bruno]

If Jefferson is resigned and traded at 5 million a year, We couldn't take on more than 6.35 million, Which a Curry+Chandler combo exceeds. They could take on more Salary, being under the cap, but we couldn't as even with RJ opting out we don't have enough room to take on that money.


Nope.
You do the trade before July and so it's RJ's 2009-2010 salary that counts.

[YamaSama]

Has anyone discussed RJ for Richard Hamilton?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5515569

Spurs get a scrappy defender and automatic shooter who would fit right into the system.

Pistons get an expiring contract, and a slashing, run-and-gun player who would fit in nicely with the nucleus of Gordon, Villanueva, Prince and Stuckey.

Spurs save some salary the first year, but then take on two additional years. RH's contract ends the same year Manu's does.

Seems like a win-win trade if the Spurs are serious about making a run next year.

[hoopdreams11]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5516289


What about RJ for Troy Murphy and Brandon Rush. It works then pop can have a 4 that can truly spread the floor.

[AFBlue]

With all due respect AFBlue, Spurs would be beyond retarded to make such a move.

Didn't advocate it...just suggested that RJ wasn't enough to get Chandler and that the Spurs would have to include some other pieces to get it done.

And while I don't trading Tony is the right move, the Spurs could do worse than a guy who will be top-5 in rebounding for the next 5 years and is coming off a 20ppg season along with a versatile forward that can shoot, slash, defend and distribute.

[TDMVPDPOY]

isnt heat lookin towards dealing beasley?

[Mr. Body]

Yikes, didn't realize Rip Hamilton had that many years left on his contract. Ouch. But I might do it.

[DesignatedT]

Yeah rip's contract is a no-no. Although his type of player would fit in better than RJ IMO. he is already 32. Look somewhere else...

[mogrovejo]

There's no way NY does that deal.

Jefferson + Splitter for Garnett or Pierce.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would do Jefferson + Blair for Garnett, doubt the Cs would do it though..I can't imagine them trading KG, you don't think they'll ride it out for these last few years? I imagine they will just let Ray Allen go and try to get younger, but stay competitive, no?..

Duncan and Garnett playing together is my NBA fan dream though, even though they're both past their primes..

[AFBlue]

If LeBron leaves the Cavs and they start out slowly, I could definitely see Jamison becoming available for expiring contracts. Something like:

Spurs trade:
RJ
Dice

Cavs trade:
Jamison
Moon

[mountainballer]

simple question:
(yeah cool down friends, it's just a question)

Spurs trade the #20 pick for Rudy Fernandez?

why?
there is (again) some talks about offers from Spanish teams for him. (reportedly Barca would pay slightly less than 10 million $ for 3 years). can't see how such things happen, he has a contract with Blazers for next year. (they would need to just waive him. could they take money from Barca? don't know about this)

but fact is, he isn't happy in Portland and he (likely his agent) is working on an escape plan.
I'm pretty sure, if the Spurs offer the pick, Pritchard pulls the trigger.
(something he wouldn't do with Batum)
so questions.
is he worth a #20 pick? IMO yes.
would he fill a need? yes.
does he have upside left? likely yes.
could he help more than a rookie immediately? yes. (more than a #20 rookie anytime)
would he be less unhappy in SA? difficult question. the international environment, Manu, maybe Tiago surly would be somehow attractive for him.

[admiralsnackbar]

simple question:
(yeah cool down friends, it's just a question)

Spurs trade the #20 pick for Rudy Fernandez?

why?
there is (again) some talks about offers from Spanish teams for him. (reportedly Barca would pay slightly less than 10 million $ for 3 years). can't see how such things happen, he has a contract with Blazers for next year. (they would need to just waive him. could they take money from Barca? don't know about this)

but fact is, he isn't happy in Portland and he (likely his agent) is working on an escape plan.
I'm pretty sure, if the Spurs offer the pick, Pritchard pulls the trigger.
(something he wouldn't do with Batum)
so questions.
is he worth a #20 pick? IMO yes.
would he fill a need? yes.
does he have upside left? likely yes.
could he help more than a rookie immediately? yes. (more than a #20 rookie anytime)
would he be less unhappy in SA? difficult question. the international environment, Manu, maybe Tiago surly would be somehow attractive for him.

You paint a very plausible win/win scenario, MB, but I'm just not sold on RF having the defensive tenacity to really be the answer to our problems at the wing.

Do you think he's capable of developing that side of his game faster than a younger, more-aggressive rook would be? Or are you just framing him as an offensive player for us?

[Darkwaters]

simple question:
(yeah cool down friends, it's just a question)

Spurs trade the #20 pick for Rudy Fernandez?

why?
there is (again) some talks about offers from Spanish teams for him. (reportedly Barca would pay slightly less than 10 million $ for 3 years). can't see how such things happen, he has a contract with Blazers for next year. (they would need to just waive him. could they take money from Barca? don't know about this)

but fact is, he isn't happy in Portland and he (likely his agent) is working on an escape plan.
I'm pretty sure, if the Spurs offer the pick, Pritchard pulls the trigger.
(something he wouldn't do with Batum)
so questions.
is he worth a #20 pick? IMO yes.
would he fill a need? yes.
does he have upside left? likely yes.
could he help more than a rookie immediately? yes. (more than a #20 rookie anytime)
would he be less unhappy in SA? difficult question. the international environment, Manu, maybe Tiago surly would be somehow attractive for him.

With all my heart yes.

[5in10]

Would anyone be interested in a magette Randolph for Jefferson trade? If they get favors it might Make ar more expendable for them.

[DesignatedT]

Would anyone be interested in a magette Randolph for Jefferson trade? If they get favors it might Make ar more expendable for them.

I am not sure. although I think maggette and jefferson are very similiar players.The downfall is Maggettes contract having so many years left. Randolph would be nice off the bench though.

[Blackjack]

Would anyone be interested in a magette Randolph for Jefferson trade? If they get favors it might Make ar more expendable for them.

No-brainer; I've discussed this with friends since the beginning of the year.

I don't expect it to happen or know if Holt would really be willing to take on the salary with the upcoming CBA but . . .

No-brainer.

[HarlemHeat37]

If they would be stupid enough to throw in Anthony Randolph, it's a no-brainer for sure..

[DesignatedT]

If they would be stupid enough to throw in Anthony Randolph, it's a no-brainer for sure..

Harlem,

Who's on your shortlist of draft prospects? Who would you like to see the spurs draft or fall to us?

[MaNu4Tres]

No-brainer; I've discussed this with friends since the beginning of the year.

I don't expect it to happen or know if Holt would really be willing to take on the salary with the upcoming CBA but . . .

No-brainer.

[scottspurs]

If spurs get Anthony Randolph/anyone else for Richard Jefferson number 5 will come easily.

[Blackjack]

I wouldn't go that far, but Randolph has talent that rivals Odom and Bosh. Plus, he's displayed the actual want-to to be a great player.

Whether he can fulfill his promise and reach his potential has yet to be determined but if you find a player with those attributes, you nab him the minute he's made available to you -- he's got potential to bridge the gap for the Spurs the way Duncan did for Robinson, even if to a smaller extent.

He's a potential second-tier max-player.

[HarlemHeat37]

Harlem,

Who's on your shortlist of draft prospects? Who would you like to see the spurs draft or fall to us?

I don't really have any preferences TBH..

I criticize the Spurs for a lot of their FA signings and Pop's rotations, but I'm usually cool with the draft picks, I'll be happy with it no matter the pick TBH..

Personally, I don't believe they're going to draft anybody in the 1st round, unless it's somebody to stash, or unless somebody like George falls..

[Buddy Holly]

RJ for Anthony Randolph, Maggette, first round pick (top 5).

[mountainballer]

with Sixers likely drafting Turner, Igoudala looks even more expendable.
unless Sixers think they can play together. but I guess they want a better shooter alongside Turner. (and Holiday does many things well, that Igoudala provides. for 10 million less). IMO now they will try harder to get rid of Igoudala for an expiring contract and become a major player in the 2011 free agency.

[Bruno]

Sixers will also face luxury tax troubles. With the 2nd pick salary, they will have a team payroll of $70.7M next year with 12 players under contract. I can see them doing trade(s) to lower their payroll of $2.5M-$3M to go under the tax threshold.

Spurs 4 players with unguaranteed contracts could be a nice trade asset with Sixers. The only problem is that Spurs are also in luxury tax troubles and maybe won't have the green light to add more salary.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

with Sixers likely drafting Turner, Igoudala looks even more expendable.
unless Sixers think they can play together. but I guess they want a better shooter alongside Turner. (and Holiday does many things well, that Igoudala provides. for 10 million less). IMO now they will try harder to get rid of Igoudala for an expiring contract and become a major player in the 2011 free agency.

Mountainballer,Bruno, do you think the Spurs FO would take on Iggy's contract if a possible deal for RJ ( + picks/whatever ) is on the table?

IMO, Iggy and possibly Granger are the two best case scenarios, talent-wise, that could eventually be available to us, obviously only because they're overpaid. From a fan's perspective it'd be a no-brainer but for the FO it'd be a huge commitment, especially after the RJ fiasco.

Also, do you think they ( Philly ) could find suitors if they try throwing Brand's contract in any Iggy deal, as this is what I'd expect from them to try first, most likely fruitless, but who knows.

[megamanu]

Has anyone discussed RJ for Richard Hamilton?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5515569

Spurs get a scrappy defender and automatic shooter who would fit right into the system.

Pistons get an expiring contract, and a slashing, run-and-gun player who would fit in nicely with the nucleus of Gordon, Villanueva, Prince and Stuckey.

Spurs save some salary the first year, but then take on two additional years. RH's contract ends the same year Manu's does.

Seems like a win-win trade if the Spurs are serious about making a run next year.

I was thinking... Do you think the pistons would do Jefferson + a pick for Hamilton + Austin Daye?

This deal would at least net the Spurs a long small forward in the trade.

[Bruno]

^^

Brand's contract is nearly untradable. It's one of worst in the league and Sixers won't be able to dump him even in a package with Iguodala.

I don't think Spurs are ready to take on Iggy contract. The RJ trade shows that some players won't fit with Spurs roster. Iguodala, like RJ, isn't a natural fit with Spurs (ball dominant player without a good 3 point shoot) and good turn as a not so good player for them.

[yavozerb]

^^

Brand's contract is nearly untradable. It's one of worst in the league and Sixers won't be able to dump him even in a package with Iguodala.

I don't think Spurs are ready to take on Iggy contract. The RJ trade shows that some players won't fit with Spurs roster. Iguodala, like RJ, isn't a natural fit with Spurs (ball dominant player without a good 3 point shoot) and good turn as a not so good player for them.

What about a turk+belinelli for RJ trade bruno? Toronto would save alot of $ and the spurs get their outside shooting. I realize turk's contract is not the greatest with 4 years left but his outside shooting (and also throw in marco's outside shooting) would be great with TD+splitter down low.

[Bruno]

What about a turk+belinelli for RJ trade bruno? Toronto would save alot of $ and the spurs get their outside shooting. I realize turk's contract is not the greatest with 4 years left but his outside shooting (and also throw in marco's outside shooting) would be great with TD+splitter down low.

I want nothing to do with Turk's contract, even more that he has a 15% trade kicker.
I don't think that trading RJ for a player with a long term big contract is the way to go. It will maybe help a little Spurs in the short term but not in the long term. I'm not sure Spurs could re-sign Parker next summer if they trade RJ for Turkoglu or Iguodala. Spurs would also have a hard time to rebuild/reload with these overpaid players on their payroll.

[yavozerb]

I want nothing to do with Turk's contract, even more that he has a 15% trade kicker.
I don't think that trading RJ for a player with a long term big contract is the way to go. It will maybe help a little Spurs in the short term but not in the long term. I'm not sure Spurs could re-sign Parker next summer if they trade RJ for Turkoglu or Iguodala. Spurs would also have a hard time to rebuild/reload with these overpaid players on their payroll.

Thanks...Didnt realize he had the trade kicker as well, what was toronto thinking when they added that?

[DesignatedT]

whats going on with yao in houston? are they going to trade him or what.

[RiverwalkParade]

If we are going to be a player on the trade market, I can only see us working out a small deal around draft time including the non-guaranteed contracts on Hairston, Gee, Jerrels and Temple

OR

Working as a third team to help facilitate a sign and trade for Bosh or Lebron to go elsewhere

Moving RJ is not a realistic in the offseason, but becomes more feasible at deadline time, which means, however that the new guy won't integrate in the system for the whole season and will ultimately be considered a bust by the fan base until the next season when he has time to get "corporate knowledge"

How's this for a trade?

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5523333

[HarlemHeat37]

Well, there goes any chance of a trade for Wilson, even though it was unlikely:lol..

[lurker23]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I figured this was as good a place as any, since there was some 76ers/Brand discussion here.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16106/sixers-shopping-no-2-pick

A number of teams have already looked into the availability of the Philadelphia 76ers' No. 2 pick in the June 24 draft.

The asking price? Several sources said they were told that the Sixers want their trade partner to take Elton Brand off their hands. Good luck with that. With Brand set to earn $51 million over the course of the next three years, he's virtually impossible to trade.

As much as teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, for instance, love Evan Turner, I don't think they love him that much.

[RiverwalkParade]

Did not see anything about this posted already, sorry if I missed it...

But who (of interest) could we get with the Hairston, Gee, Jerrels (Temple if needed) trade chip? I think those young guys, non-guaranteed, will be a big time chip come draft time. Who has a salary that would match?

[admiralsnackbar]

Did not see anything about this posted already, sorry if I missed it...

But who (of interest) could we get with the Hairston, Gee, Jerrels (Temple if needed) trade chip? I think those young guys, non-guaranteed, will be a big time chip come draft time. Who has a salary that would match?

They make so little already that any trade would have to be rookies for rookies, and considering we chose them out of the NBDL, we must already be happy (or at least optimistic) with them.

[mogrovejo]

Anthony Randolph has the potential to be a top-15 player in the NBA.

Good chance he won't reach it the way things are going, but the upside is there and it's so massive there's no way I'd pass on it.

[DesignatedT]

Tony Parker + 2010 20th pick + 2011 first rounder for Devin Harris + Terrance Williams + 2010 #3 Pick.

[mountainballer]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I figured this was as good a place as any, since there was some 76ers/Brand discussion here.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16106/sixers-shopping-no-2-pick

A number of teams have already looked into the availability of the Philadelphia 76ers' No. 2 pick in the June 24 draft.

The asking price? Several sources said they were told that the Sixers want their trade partner to take Elton Brand off their hands. Good luck with that. With Brand set to earn $51 million over the course of the next three years, he's virtually impossible to trade.

As much as teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, for instance, love Evan Turner, I don't think they love him that much.

hm. if taking Brand is the price, I can see Cuban (once more) jump in. as far as I understood it the Dampier contract didn't become guaranteed for the next season. (some complicated minutes played clause).
Mavs even have a possible trade sweetener in Beaubois.
Dampier/Haywood didn't get it done. as much as Brand disappointed in Philly, he still is an upgrade over the Mavs current post players. and money has never bees an issue. plus Turner (or Favors) as the real deal. wow.

[lmbebo]

I think Cuban would have to throw in Beabouis...

From what I heard Philly wants someone to take Brand and to give them something good talented young pieces in return.

[FeZZy]

Is there anyway we can get Rudy Fernandez? He wants a trade.......

[yavozerb]

Is there anyway we can get Rudy Fernandez? He wants a trade.......

No...The blazers would rather see him go to europe probably before trying to trade him to the spurs.

[Bruno]

Turkoglu really wants to leave Toronto, I wonder if Spurs can work something with him.

His contract is:
10-11: $9.8M
11-12: $10.6M
12-13: $11.4M
13-14: $12M (player option)

Maybe Turkoglu can agree to renounce his player option to be traded. It won't be a $12M loss since he will get back $4.8M in a trade bonus and he should pay less taxes in Texas than in Toronto. He will also be a FA one year sooner and could get some money with a new contract.

After the trade, his contract could be:
10-11: $11.4M
11-12: $12.2M
12-13: $13M

That's a lot of money but it's less horrible than the original contract. A trade like Turkoglu + Bellineli + #13 for Jefferson + #20 could be tempting. It could even be more tempting if Spurs can do it without adding the #20 pick. At #13, Spurs could really get a player they like George or maybe even Henry.

[Buddy Holly]

That's what I was thinking.

Turk, Belinelli and #13 for Jefferson.

Since we'd be taking on the contracts of both Turk and Belinelli and they're getting an expiring contract in Jefferson I wouldn't give up our 20 pick.

We'd end up with two good first round picks plus a capable player in Turk who's played here before.

[Blackjack]

Maybe Turkoglu can agree to renounce his player option to be traded. It won't be a $12M loss since he will get back $4.8M in a trade bonus and he should pay less taxes in Texas than in Toronto. He will also be a FA one year sooner and could get some money with a new contract.

After the trade, his contract could be:
10-11: $11.4M
11-12: $12.2M
12-13: $13M

That's a lot of money but it's less horrible than the original contract. A trade like Turkoglu + Bellineli + #13 for Jefferson + #20 could be tempting. It could even be more tempting if Spurs can do it without adding the #20 pick. At #13, Spurs could really get a player they like George or maybe even Henry.

From a basketball standpoint, I really like this proposal. You get shooting and size on the wing, another playmaker that could share point guard responsibilities with Hill and you're adding a Hedo that's both played in the Spurs' system and blossomed into a player the Spurs never saw in the Black and Silver -- Hedo was a bit of a reclamation project upon entering San Antonio and was struggling both with the system and the ability to find and develop his game as a young player that was just given up on at his last stop, Sacramento.

So that's for the here and now. Turkoglu is an upgrade over Jefferson (even if not the perfect fit still) and Belinelli could fill Mason's void.

But having the ability to acquire the #13 without losing the #20 could really be a godsend to this team. Sure, there's a great possibility one or both could really help you now but it gives you the opportunity to find two more building blocks for the future that will be on rookie-scale contracts for the next 4 years. You'd also be able to draft the best player available basically because your wing will basically be set -- the defensive wing is still a question mark but it may already be on your roster or you could use one of the 2 first-rounders or your second-rounder on a player if you believe he's up to the challenge; my guess is that's a role more suited to a veteran or player that's been in the Spurs' system for a while.

The huge question mark is the added salary and if the organization feels this is a strong enough move for the here-and-now and sets them up for the future in a way that the expense could be tolerated. I'm just not sure how an owner like Holt can keep ponying up the dollars if he's losing money at the gate and not sitting on the mound of cash Cuban, Allen and especially the new kid on the block, Prokhorov have.

Call me crazy but I think with this current group and the way they fit ... the system won't be as detrimental to Turk as it was the first go-around. I'd bite, if offered. :tu

[Ginobili2Duncan]

I don't like it, Turkoglu is overrated mostly because of his carrer year in 08, but he really isn't that good. He is not a good finisher at the rim. He can shoot over his defenders because of his height, but he isn't very quick. He is also worse than Jefferson on defense, he has no lateral quickness and he is a terrible rebounder. It is only going to get worse as he ages(think Peja Stojakovic today).


The reason why the Magic traded for Carter is because they didn't want to overpay Turkoglu. 4 years $52 million is an awful lot for a slightly above average player. I also think Turkoglu got a little lazy after he signed that contract, and now he would rather be clubbing out in Toronto than trying to win games.

[Mel_13]

Turkoglu really wants to leave Toronto, I wonder if Spurs can work something with him.

His contract is:
10-11: $9.8M
11-12: $10.6M
12-13: $11.4M
13-14: $12M (player option)

Maybe Turkoglu can agree to renounce his player option to be traded. It won't be a $12M loss since he will get back $4.8M in a trade bonus and he should pay less taxes in Texas than in Toronto. He will also be a FA one year sooner and could get some money with a new contract.

After the trade, his contract could be:
10-11: $11.4M
11-12: $12.2M
12-13: $13M

That's a lot of money but it's less horrible than the original contract. A trade like Turkoglu + Bellineli + #13 for Jefferson + #20 could be tempting. It could even be more tempting if Spurs can do it without adding the #20 pick. At #13, Spurs could really get a player they like George or maybe even Henry.

Intriguing possibility. The increase in future financial obligations is significant, but those are some decent assets in return.

When the Parker to NY rumors bubbled, there was a tweet by Adrian Wojnarowski where he shot down the rumors by saying that David Lee wouldn't fit into the Spurs' salary structure. I wonder if that means the Spurs simply aren't interested in Lee at 10M+ for several years into the future or if it means that they're not interested in adding any large future contracts.

It would seem that the Spurs want to retain the possibility of extending Parker's contract. When you look at major obligations for 2011-12, they have Tim and Manu for about 34M, the buyout of Dice's last year, and the second year of Splitter's deal. That's around 40-42M for three players under the, as yet unknown, terms of the 2011 CBA.

Ownership has authorized greatly increased spending for 2009-10 and 2010-11. Almost any RJ trade would mean extending that increased spending into one or more years beyond 2011-12.

If they add another 10M+ player to the 2011-12 payroll, have they spent themselves out of the ability to afford to keep Parker?

[TD 21]

For those of you who barely saw Turkoglu play last season and are just assuming it was a down year by looking at the stats, I can't begin to describe to you just how bad he was. Even if he were motivated (which he wasn't and won't be), what athleticism/quickness he once had has vanished, he can't finish at the rim, is a sub par spot up shooter, an abysmal defender and brings no intangibles to the table. Basically, his one true strength is as a 6-9 (I know he's listed at 6-10, but he's 6-9) passer, who can see over the defense while making passes off the pick and roll.

With Parker/Ginobili, he wouldn't be playing with the ball in his hands on this team. I'd much rather have Jefferson for multiple seasons than have Turkoglu for four more seasons, but the fact that Jefferson is an expiring contract makes this even easier. Turkoglu is NOT an upgrade over Jefferson and would be an even worse fit on this team.

Belinelli, I don't mind. Good shooter and a good ball handler/passer for a two guard. Similar to Redick, only he handles better. But he's very hot and cold.

I can't imagine the Spurs even considering this trade. Overall, I'd be stunned if they took on a major long term contract. Particularly for an out of shape player, who lacks intensity, is on the downside and has no real motivation for the rest of his career since this is obviously the last big contract. If the Spurs could get Bosh, they'd take on a major long term contract. Iguodala, maybe. But even him I'd think would be unlikely. Turkoglu, not a chance. Not even a consideration. With the possible exception of Brand, I can't think of a worse contract in the league off the top of my head.

Here's the thing with Jefferson: Even if he's not better next season (I assume he will be), he at least seems like he genuinely cares and I presume is going to go hard because he's playing for the final lucrative contract of his career and his play next season will play a big part in determining just how lucrative that contract is going to be. With Turkoglu, you won't even get that.

[outmap]

Dream off-season scenario:
-DeJuan Blair, Richard Jefferson, Antonio McDyess, Malik Hairston, Roger Mason (S&T) for Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert, 2nd pick.
-Draft Favors @ 2, George/Babbit @ 20, Pittman @ 49.
-Sign Splitter for the MLE, Sign McGrady for the LLE, sign Dorell Wright for the minimum, re-sign Matt.

C - Dalembert, Splitter, Pittman
PF- Duncan, Favors, Bonner
SF- McGrady, George/Babbit, Wright
SG - Iguodala, Ginobili, Gee
PG - Parker, Hill, Temple

It's free to dream. :D

[kobyz]

no way Sixers do this but the idea of signing McGrady is very interested, he is well behind is prime but maybe he could do what Grant Hill did after his injuries - become great veteran role player!

[Darkwaters]

I'm still curious why people think we could do a S&T with Mason. I mean, really?

[mountainballer]

Turkoglu really wants to leave Toronto, I wonder if Spurs can work something with him.

His contract is:
10-11: $9.8M
11-12: $10.6M
12-13: $11.4M
13-14: $12M (player option)

Maybe Turkoglu can agree to renounce his player option to be traded. It won't be a $12M loss since he will get back $4.8M in a trade bonus and he should pay less taxes in Texas than in Toronto. He will also be a FA one year sooner and could get some money with a new contract.

After the trade, his contract could be:
10-11: $11.4M
11-12: $12.2M
12-13: $13M

That's a lot of money but it's less horrible than the original contract. A trade like Turkoglu + Bellineli + #13 for Jefferson + #20 could be tempting. It could even be more tempting if Spurs can do it without adding the #20 pick. At #13, Spurs could really get a player they like George or maybe even Henry.

disagree here. the numbers are still beyond horrible and neither Belinelli nor the #13 pick would be enough to compensate. (jury is still out if Belinelli can ever become more than a 9th-12th man on a good NBA team).
people have been head-shaking about proposals with lower numbers and better players involved (Maggette, Hamilton, even Igoudala), so going for Hedo in his current shape and his several other issues can't be a good option by any stretch. I guess I would rather go for Brand, before going for Hedo.
(this doesn't mean I would ever go for Brand, this just means that I rank Hedo on this contract as an even worse option.)

[TD 21]

Just thought this one up. I think it's doable, but at the same time unlikely. Haven't read through the thread, so maybe someone's brought this up, but...

If George, Babbitt and Henry aren't available at twenty (and it's sounding more and more like the former two won't be, while the latter was never likely to be), then the Spurs should offer the twentieth pick for Anderson.

He'd be a perfect fifth big, because he's a stretch four, young, affordable through 2013 and really, he's better than a fifth big; he's a fourth big with the chance to be a third big. An ideal replacement for Bonner next season and a solid replacement for McDyess two seasons from now. He'd give the Spurs three young, quality bigs to put around Duncan. Plus, assuming Splitter were signed, the Spurs would have the deepest front court in the league next season, which would allow Duncan and McDyess the rest they need to make it through the regular season as fresh and spry as possible.

But as I alluded to, it's unlikely because he's a perfect fit in the Magic's system and unlike a lot of their players, he's young and affordable. The Spurs only hope would be that the Magic were enamored with a player available at twenty and like said player enough to part with Anderson.

[TD 21]

The 20th pick in and of itself isn't likely to be all that appealing to the Magic (though they could use a young backup PG; maybe they're a fan of Bledsoe and would do this trade if he's available at twenty? The blow would be softened by moving Anderson because they already have a capable backup PF in Bass, though he lacks the shooting range of Anderson), but if they had the 20th pick in addition to their own pick, 29th, they could package the two together and potentially move into the back end of the lottery, or the mid teens.

Again, maybe they're a fan of Bledsoe, but have to move up to get him? Maybe they go with a young big, like Orton or Whiteside, which frees them up to move Bass or Gortat? Maybe they go with a wing who can shoot, like Henry, Babbitt or George, so that they don't have to overpay to keep Redick? All kinds of possibilities, but it's predicated on them being enamored with a specific player.

[Bruno]

Anderson has had a Bonneritis this year. He has disappeared in the playoffs. He is still young and it was his first playoffs, so it could be understandable but I don't think he is worth giving up #20 after that.

Anderson could be interesting but more in a trade like #20 + non-guaranteed fillers for #29 + Anderson. At #29, Spurs could draft someone like Pondexter.

[TD 21]

Keep in mind that in '08 Anderson was the 21st pick, so why exactly would he not be worth giving up the 20th pick for? If this were a loaded draft where the Spurs were virtually guaranteed to get a player of clear cut higher value than Anderson, then I'd agree with you, but I don't see that. He's 22 and just had his first playoffs in his second season. Sure, he didn't play great, but he also only played for two rounds. The sample size is nowhere near big enough to even begin to draw any conclusions.

As I said, I'd only do this trade from the Spurs perspective if George, Babbitt and Henry weren't available at 20. Look at the other options available around the Spurs pick and tell me one that would be a better fit than Anderson?

This would also allow the Spurs to not bury Hairston, Gee and to a lesser extent, Temple. They could sign Jones, have Temple active (which is underrated because this is a team that potentially could blowout a lot of teams next season; no need to further tax Hill in those situations and they won't have to if Temple is active regularly), Hairston, if not fully in the rotation, then on the fringe of it and have Gee primarily in the D-League, but not buried so far on the depth chart that there's virtually no chance that he plays next season barring a rash of injuries.

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Jefferson, C- Splitter, SG- Hill, PG- Parker

Bench: SG- Ginobili, PF- McDyess, PF- Blair, SF- Jones, SG/SG- Hairston, PF- Anderson, SG/PG- Temple

Inactive/D-League: SF/SG- Gee

[Mel_13]

This would also allow the Spurs to not bury Hairston, Gee and to a lesser extent, Temple. They could sign Jones, have Temple active (which is underrated because this is a team that potentially could blowout a lot of teams next season; no need to further tax Hill in those situations and they won't have to if Temple is active regularly), Hairston, if not fully in the rotation, then on the fringe of it and have Gee primarily in the D-League, but not buried so far on the depth chart that there's virtually no chance that he plays next season barring a rash of injuries.

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Jefferson, C- Splitter, SG- Hill, PG- Parker

Bench: SG- Ginobili, PF- McDyess, PF- Blair, SF- Jones, SG/SG- Hairston, PF- Anderson, SG/PG- Temple

Inactive/D-League: SF/SG- Gee

Two of the DLeaguers would have to accompany the 20th pick to make it work under the CBA. So, the 29th pick going back with Anderson makes sense in this scenario.

Orlando has some major holes to fill this offseason and they are about 10M over the luxury tax for just eight players and that doesn't include Reddick, Barnes, Williams, or Johnson (or their replacements). They're moving into a new arena, so there will presumably be increased revenue. If their owners, however, do push for some measures of cost control, they'll have to find a partner who can absorb some of their salary while sending something useful back in return.

The Thunder come to mind as one possible partner. Gortat for Mullens and the 21st pick, for example. For the price of Gortat, Orlando gets a project center, the 21st pick, and the salary savings to keep Reddick. The Thunder get a good, young center who fits in their salary structure.

[TD 21]

Two of the DLeaguers would have to accompany the 20th pick to make it work under the CBA. So, the 29th pick going back with Anderson makes sense in this scenario.

Orlando has some major holes to fill this offseason and they are about 10M over the luxury tax for just eight players and that doesn't include Reddick, Barnes, Williams, or Johnson (or their replacements). They're moving into a new arena, so there will presumably be increased revenue. If their owners, however, do push for some measures of cost control, they'll have to find a partner who can absorb some of their salary while sending something useful back in return.

The Thunder come to mind as one possible partner. Gortat for Mullens and the 21st pick, for example. For the price of Gortat, Orlando gets a project center, the 21st pick, and the salary savings to keep Reddick. The Thunder get a good, young center who fits in their salary structure.

I'm all for that, but I doubt the Magic would be.

I'm aware of their situation. Like I said, this move would be predicated on them being enamored with a specific player. I doubt the 20th pick in and of itself is all that appealing to them.

If you're the Spurs and Henry, George and Babbitt are gone, do you make this trade? I definitely would.

[DesignatedT]

:td turkoglu

[Mel_13]

The notion of exchanging the 20th pick for an established player on a rookie contract makes sense. Especially one that would fill a role that presumably will be vacant.

[Big P]

:td turkoglu

This

[pauls931]

What are you hoping for Spurs fans? I read where Parker is perhaps on the trading block. I always thought Ginobili would be the one that made the most sense strategically, but perhaps not fan wise to trade...

(don't worry, I'll head back to the basement after this)

[DesignatedT]

Okay here is a draft day trade I had in mind.

Tony Parker for Devin Harris+ third pick.

Here is where the trade get's tricky. That won't work straight up so depending on what happens with the first and second picks the third part of New Jersey's trade is curious. If the draft goes 1. Wall, 2. Favors: then I think the Spurs should go for Yi to fill that needed 3 million-ish dollars and draft Turner. The Spurs have a Matt Bonner replacement in Yi and Turner to play the 1/2/3.

Assuming (and more realistic option) the draft is 1. Wall and 2. Turner then the Spurs just draft Favors and Dooling could be that filler. Nets would likely throw in the 500k for the waiving of Dooling, if not, then the Spurs shouldn't mind paying it themselves.

Still I feel like no matter what I say it won't happen.

If we could somehow land terrrance williams from new jersey it would be even more of a plus. that guy can straight up ball.

Tony+#20+Blair for Harris+Williams+#3?

[RiverwalkParade]

could RJ be a part of a draft day trade? or does that have to wait until July 1st?

[yavozerb]

If we could somehow land terrrance williams from new jersey it would be even more of a plus. that guy can straight up ball.

Tony+#20+Blair for Harris+Williams+#3?

I think it would take more than just TP to get the 3rd and harris. I think the offer of TP+Blair for #3 (only if favors is still on the board)+ harris would benefit both teams. You then sign Splitter + Ian and you have a great young frontline for the future and with #20 you pick a SF if one is available or elliott williams to back up at pg. All of a sudden the spurs are very athletic and a good mixture of youth and vet players.

[Mel_13]

Okay here is a draft day trade I had in mind.

Tony Parker for Devin Harris+ third pick.

Here is where the trade get's tricky. That won't work straight up

Actually, it will. NJ has more than enough cap space to absorb the difference in salaries between Harris and Parker. The Spurs can't take back 4M more in salaries than they send out, but NJ can. The trade you outline would generate a Trade Exception of approximately 4.2M, an asset that could prove quite valuable as well.

Making a trade for the #3 is plenty tricky, but the difference in salaries between Harris and Parker is not an obstacle.

[DPG21920]

Mel, I have a question. Salaries only have to match if both teams are over the cap, correct? So if one team is so far under the cap (NJ for example), would it be possible for a team like CLE to sign & trade Lebron to NJ for just the #3 pick bc they can absorb the salary?

[Mel_13]

Mel, I have a question. Salaries only have to match if both teams are over the cap, correct? So if one team is so far under the cap (NJ for example), would it be possible for a team like CLE to sign & trade Lebron to NJ for just the #3 pick bc they can absorb the salary?

Yes and yes.

Teams over the cap are bound by the 125% + 100K rule. A team with NJ's cap space is not.

For a recent example of a trade similar to the one you suggest we have Rashard Lewis from Seattle to Orlando. Orlando sent no salary back to Seattle. Seattle got a 9M TE that they later used to get KT plus two first rounders from PHX. Then you remember what they got for KT.

[DPG21920]

I really wonder why you don't see more trades like that? I know it is not often where teams have all that cap space and I know teams usually want assets, but if you can get a top 3 pick and maximize the cap space you will get, why not?

[Mel_13]

I really wonder why you don't see more trades like that? I know it is not often where teams have all that cap space and I know teams usually want assets, but if you can get a top 3 pick and maximize the cap space you will get, why not?

I don't think we've ever had a summer with so many teams so far under the cap. So situations where a team simultaneously has a huge amount of cap AND a top 3 pick are pretty rare occurrences.

Not to stir the TP pot any further, but if Splitter doesn't come over and the Spurs want to jump start a rebuilding effort, an unbalanced trade of this sort becomes more likely.

[DPG21920]

I wonder if the Wiz would do something crazy like the number 1 pick + Arenas to NJ? I don't see NJ doing that, but if you are WAS do you make that offer?

[DesignatedT]

I wonder if the Wiz would do something crazy like the number 1 pick + Arenas to NJ? I don't see NJ doing that, but if you are WAS do you make that offer?

I dont think its worth getting rid of john wall. he is the clear #1 pick and the talent level drops off a bit after him.

Im sure they're doing everything possible to ship arenas though or they at least should be.

[Mel_13]

I wonder if the Wiz would do something crazy like the number 1 pick + Arenas to NJ? I don't see NJ doing that, but if you are WAS do you make that offer?

I wouldn't.

Washington cleared the decks except for Gil's contract. If they don't resign Foye, then Blatche at 3.2M is their next largest contract. So they have a nice chunk of cap space as it is, but I don't see them going after a big name FA.

Draft Wall, maybe use some of that cap space to peel off some young talent from teams that really do want more cap space, and start building a team from the bottom up.

Give Gil a chance to prove he can be a useful part of the team. If it doesn't work out, start negotiating a buyout rather than mortgaging the team's future by trading off young players and draft picks.

[DPG21920]

It will be interesting to see how this summer goes for the Spurs. I don't know if they have ever been in this position before (Franchise player fading, no real successor, some key player decisions (TP), the CBA negotiations...). I really have no idea what is going to happen just because there are so many factors.

[Mel_13]

It will be interesting to see how this summer goes for the Spurs. I don't know if they have ever been in this position before (Franchise player fading, no real successor, some key player decisions (TP), the CBA negotiations...). I really have no idea what is going to happen just because there are so many factors.

Yep, there is more uncertainty than anytime in recent memory.

It really all starts with Splitter. If he comes over, then I think the Spurs dig in and try to take their best shot at contending.

If Splitter doesn't come over, things could get real interesting.

[MaNu4Tres]

I really have no idea what is going to happen just because there are so many factors.

That's the beauty of it. No one does.

Although I believe everyone has collaborated in coming up with different scenarios; leaving no rocks unturned.


Don't be surprised if one of them actually pans out.

[DPG21920]

:lol or none of them. There are always great ideas on here, but I am shocked at how few actually pan out. That is just the nature of the NBA though. Many things are logical, but things are so much more complex in real life that things rarely happen.

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol or none of them. There are always great ideas on here, but I am shocked at how few actually pan out. That is just the nature of the NBA though. Many things are logical, but things are so much more complex in real life that things rarely happen.

:lol

Can we all just go to bed tonight and wake up in the middle of August. It can save us a lot of time, don't you think?

[DPG21920]

I think about that all the time. I wish I could just fast forward to important dates.

[Mel_13]

I think about that all the time. I wish I could just fast forward to important dates.

:lol

That's because you're young.

[Mel_13]

I'm curious then. How about this 3 way trade

Spurs Trade:
Tony Parker
20th pick
Spurs Get
Devin Harris
Michael Beasley
Third pick in the 2010 deaft.

Nets Trade
Harris
Third pick
Nets get
Tony Parker
Heat Trade
Michael Beasley
Heat get
20th pick

Assuming the Dooling for Beasley rumors are true, could this trade not very easily go down? I really think it would help the Spurs too much actually.

That should work under the rules.

[Chieflion]

I'm curious then. How about this 3 way trade

Spurs Trade:
Tony Parker
20th pick
Spurs Get
Devin Harris
Michael Beasley
Third pick in the 2010 deaft.

Nets Trade
Harris
Third pick
Nets get
Tony Parker
Heat Trade
Michael Beasley
Heat get
20th pick

Assuming the Dooling for Beasley rumors are true, could this trade not very easily go down? I really think it would help the Spurs too much actually.
Nets don't do this trade because of cap space (to sign 2 max FAs) and they are giving up the 3rd pick (Favors or Cousins). It doens't make sense of NJ to do this deal at all. The Nets turned down the Dooling for Beasley swap for cap space. What this trade accomplishes for the Heat, in particular, is ridiculous and does not fit into the plans of the New Jersey Nets because of the clash in both interests. The Miami Heat would be able to re-sign Dwyane Wade plus 2 other max FAs like Chris Bosh and LeBron James and form a new and decade-lasting most dominant Big 3 if it happens with almost no salary on their cap space. Easily a no deal from the New Jersey Nets.

[Mel_13]

Good! Get her done RC.

But let me ask, what numbers are the trades going by? Because if the Spurs were to trade Parker for Harris at the deadline then that would not have worled straight up. The Net's team salary was around 60 million and that isn't below the cap, so are trades made after the season based off of next season't salaries?

Excellent point. I believe that trades made before June 30th use the 2009-10 salary numbers. So the second trade you proposed probably doesn't work as a draft day deal. I think you were right to begin with and I may have been talking out of my....

Bruno?

Help, please

[Chieflion]

Excellent point. I believe that trades made before June 30th use the 2009-10 salary numbers. So the second trade you proposed probably doesn't work as a draft day deal. I think you were right to begin with and I may have been talking out of my....

Bruno?

Help, please
Only works post-July 1st. That trade, I mean. So, what the Nets could do, is to draft Favors or Cousins, under the promise of both the Miami Heat and the Spurs. The Spurs would then have to draft for the Heat, then consummate the deal on July 1st. But for reasons stated above, the Nets would never do this deal.

[Chieflion]

In all honesty that Russian guy likes Tony Parker and his goal is to bring in really exciting players. Small forward is the position that franchise needs to fill and I heard from a very reliable Nets source that the new owner is looking to bring exciting players in(and he really like Rudy Gay as a plan B). Tony Parker is better than Davin Harris and is better than a lot of players they can get for max contracts right now.

So the perfect Nets' off-season would be:
Trade for Tony Parker
Sign LeBron James
Use the rest of that money to bring in a back up point guard (Chris Duhon maybe?) and a solid power forward(Al Harrington, Udonis, Warrick).

A big 3 of Tony, LeBron and Lopez is better than anything leBron has had in Cleveland. And the Nets were not that terrible this year, they just didn't have the player to close out games (basically a lot of role players). Both LeBron and TP can do that.

That's a turrible idea. Do you really think the Miami Heat with 3 max or close to max FAs would be a more alluring team for LeBron to go to than the New Jersey Nets? Dwyane Wade is easily a better player than both Parker and Lopez combined.

[RiverwalkParade]

How about something like this for the offseason:

Trade #1

Spurs trade TP/Blair to NJ for Harris/T. Williams and the #3 pick

Draft:

Draft with the #3- D. Favors
Draft with the #20- Best Big Available

Trade #2

Spurs trade RJ/McDyess/Hairston/Gee/Jerrels/Favors to Philly for Iggy/Kapono/and Sign&Trade Elson/2011 1st


Free Agency:

Sign Splitter with most of MLE
Use LLE for Matt Barnes
Resign Bonner

PG: Harris/Hill/Temple
SG: Hill/Manu/Williams
SF: Iggy/Kapono/Barnes
PF: Duncan/Bonner/20th
C: Splitter/Elson/20th

[Cane]

Avery Johnson is going to be the coach for the Nets so I wonder how that affects the potential Devin Harris and Tony Parker trade scenarios.

[RiverwalkParade]

Would Minnesota go for this:

TP/Blair/#20 for Gomes/Sessions/Love/#4

That Syracuse kid is sick

[mountainballer]

Avery is the new head coach of the Nets!

I guess this puts a damper on all trade speculations involving Devin Harris.
(I mean, he is pretty much his product. don't know if they had troubles before Harris was traded though)

pure speculation on my side: reportedly Dirk is leaning towards an opt out. hm. can anyone see a scenario with Dirk going to NJ to reunite with Avery? when this decisions are made, the draft will be done.
imagine this scenario: Sixers pick Favors, so Nets get Turner. they sign Dirk, who would form a scary twin tower with Lopez.
Harris-Lee-Turner-Dirk-Lopez
bench: Williams-Yi-CDR
that's not bad.
and they should still have some money for one or two quality veterans. (about 6-8 million, depending if Dirk takes max or slightly less). Haslem? Josh Howard?? Salmons?

[benefactor]

Wasn't Dirk one of the ones complaining about AJ being too hard on them?

[mountainballer]

you may be right. I don't remember exactly. I guess he complained about to little movement and running in the game. maybe Dirk wasn't that good an idea. on the other hand, it was Avery who finally made him the MVP.

[Bruno]

I know it's fun to talk about big trades but I think that Spurs won't do some big moves this summer. The team is well balanced and trades done will be lateral ones.

The only trade I can see Spurs doing is packaging their first round pick with a future one to move up of a few spots and draft a SF they really like.

[RiverwalkParade]

If the Spurs can package a trade of Blair and the D-Leaguers for another pick (maybe Memphis would entertain at the 12 if we include next years 1st), I say do it.

Blair is a great player, I love his energy, his skill set and that we stole him in the 2nd.

But the fact is that he is undersized for his position and does not have an outside touch. I know that is something that can be developed, but if there is a guy that can provide what he provides and is 6' 10'' or taller, then that is who we need on our team.

[TimDunkem]

^ Worst idea ever.

[lurker23]

Interesting...we'll see if this happens.

@DraftExpress

Something will go down tomorrow or Tuesday but I'm sworn to secrecy. Argh! RT @phillyfanatic84: Are you hearing any pre-draft Trade Chatter?

http://twitter.com/DraftExpress

[lurker23]

For the record, I've never advocated trading Tony Parker. However, if the Spurs FO were so inclined, I wonder if this could play into the equation:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16700/raptors-cleaning-house

Rather, Colangelo is shopping Hedo Turkoglu, Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack with an eye toward making trades before July 1.
The same source told me that a Turkoglu trade was already in the works and could happen by the draft. While the source was confident something would happen, the source didn't disclose the potential destination(s). The Calderon and Jack discussions are moving more slowly, but over the past few days the Raptors have been pressing forward on those fronts as well.
At the same time, the Raptors appear to be closing in on a trade for an additional first-round pick. Colangelo has called every team with multiple picks looking for something in the 20s, according to sources.

---


Spurs have a pick in the 20s, and with Parker could get Jack and/or Calderon. I doubt RJ's contract could get it done. Thoughts from everyone?

[Chieflion]

For the record, I've never advocated trading Tony Parker. However, if the Spurs FO were so inclined, I wonder if this could play into the equation:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16700/raptors-cleaning-house

Rather, Colangelo is shopping Hedo Turkoglu, Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack with an eye toward making trades before July 1.
The same source told me that a Turkoglu trade was already in the works and could happen by the draft. While the source was confident something would happen, the source didn't disclose the potential destination(s). The Calderon and Jack discussions are moving more slowly, but over the past few days the Raptors have been pressing forward on those fronts as well.
At the same time, the Raptors appear to be closing in on a trade for an additional first-round pick. Colangelo has called every team with multiple picks looking for something in the 20s, according to sources.

---


Spurs have a pick in the 20s, and with Parker could get Jack and/or Calderon. I doubt RJ's contract could get it done. Thoughts from everyone?

Who wants those turnstiles on defense on their team?

[Blackjack]

I was gonna ask if that trade Givony alluded to earlier happened to be Toronto acquiring another pick, but it looks like it's something separate after checking the tweets.

I'd consider that Hedo, Belinelli, and an exchange of first-rounders for RJ after I'd seen some more movement and had a better feel of what other kind of trades could be made, but I don't see how getting rid of Parker for that package helps the Spurs now or in the immediate future.

[lurker23]

Who wants those turnstiles on defense on their team?

As I've said before, I don't necessarily advocate a lot of the news stories I post or threads I bump; I mostly post them to get discussion started. In this case, I agree that Jose Calderon will never be a great defender. Jack, however, can play some pretty solid defense at times, and has quick hands. I've always liked the idea of Jarrett Jack as a backup PG, he's very solid. Now, is that worth $5 million per year? That's harder to say.

[Chieflion]

As I've said before, I don't necessarily advocate a lot of the news stories I post or threads I bump; I mostly post them to get discussion started. In this case, I agree that Jose Calderon will never be a great defender. Jack, however, can play some pretty solid defense at times, and has quick hands. I've always liked the idea of Jarrett Jack as a backup PG, he's very solid. Now, is that worth $5 million per year? That's harder to say.

Back up PGs at 5 million are not that bad. When you back up Calderon at PG for 5 million, you are absolutely terrible. Unless Chris Bosh comes along with the sign and trade package, no one is going to take those scrubs.

[DPG21920]

Interesting...we'll see if this happens.

@DraftExpress

Something will go down tomorrow or Tuesday but I'm sworn to secrecy. Argh! RT @phillyfanatic84: Are you hearing any pre-draft Trade Chatter?

http://twitter.com/DraftExpress

Nothing?

[lurker23]

Nothing?

Apparently not. Could be that his source his legit, the trade will happen, etc., but things took longer than expected. Still, putting timelines on stuff like that puts you out on a limb.

[DPG21920]

Apparently not. Could be that his source his legit, the trade will happen, etc., but things took longer than expected. Still, putting timelines on stuff like that puts you out on a limb.

For sure. Putting time lines on these things is a bad way to go about imo. Too many variables.

[Mikesatx]

Be kind... This is the dreamed up trades thread. This is the best I could do and justify both teams finding value. Clippers and their frugal owner unloading Baron's longer term contract in exchange for a younger quicker guard. Jefferson would be the best slashing forward on the team. In addition if he bombs the money comes off the books in a year. They lose Kamen but have Blake Griffin coming in to play the post. We get Kamen who is arguably a top 5 center in the league and Baron who has proven to be a good distributer and money player in the playoffs.


Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.

Due to San Antonio and L.A. Clippers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. San Antonio and L.A. Clippers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


Trade ID
Trade ID #5553903 (http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5553903)

Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario.

Try Another Trade (http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/1/) or visit our Trade Forum (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=2).


San Antonio Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +5.5 ppg, +6.0 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

Incoming Playershttp://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Davis_Baron_lac.jpg Baron Davis
6-3 PG from UCLA
15.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 8.0 apg in 33.6 minutes http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Kaman_Chris_lac.jpg Chris Kaman
7-0 C from Central Michigan
18.5 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.6 apg in 34.3 minutes Outgoing Playershttp://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Jefferson_Richard_san.jpg Richard Jefferson
6-7 SF from Arizona
12.3 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.1 minuteshttp://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Parker_Tony_san.jpg Tony Parker
6-2 PG from France (Foreign)
16.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.7 apg in 30.9 minutes



Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/4/#ixzz0qzBZ9vv5

[DesignatedT]

Lol Baron Davis.

[Mikesatx]

Better assist guy, better rebounder, better steals and a better 3 point shot. Tony has speed, age and health on his side. Am I missing something else?

[HarlemHeat37]

Baron is one of the most inefficient guards in NBA history..he also looks like he no longer has motivation(coming from somebody that has seen a lot of Clipper games the last 2 years), and he still has around 41 mil$ for 3 more years on his contract IIRC, which is horrible..

Kaman is extremely overrated(IMO) and still has 2 years left..also, adding Kaman would kill the Spurs defensively..while it would add another shot blocker, it would make the frontcourt extremely slow..Duncan-Kaman is an incredibly slow combination..

Even if Kaman is wanted, taking back Baron's contract isn't worth it..

[Blackjack]

Baron is one of the most inefficient guards in NBA history..he also looks like

What came to mind when reading up to that point? C'Mon, let's get Mad Libs up in this mug! :downspin:

[admiralsnackbar]

Baron is one of the most inefficient guards in NBA history..he also looks like Mr. T in "Freaked!"
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/snackbar50/freaksmrtasthebeardedlady.jpg

[MaNu4Tres]

What about this trade? Say if Spurs fail to to move up in the draft (which is likely), and most of the players they wanted are gone by 20?


Spurs receive: Tayshaun Prince, Chris Wilcox and Pistons 2011 2nd round pick.

Pistons recieve: Richard Jefferson and the #20th pick.



I know Prince had an injury riddled season last year, but the guy didn't miss one game in 6 consecutive years before last year; which indicates his true durability.

Not only that, but I believe Prince would be a better fit being a career 37% shooter from the distance and he also has a superior basketball mentality on both ends, which makes him much more proficient than R.J. He has been through a championship caliber system as a 4th and 5th option and knows how to efficiently pick his spots; something R.J had never been asked to do before last year.

I also believe his length would help the Spurs out tremendously on the defensive end and he would give the Spurs a lot of versatility, being the best option the Spurs have had as a small-ball four against the teams that go small.

He is also in his contract year, which should help his preparation going into next season.

I'd love this deal. IMO

As for Wilcox, he can be bought out; he is just a filler.

[Chieflion]

What about this trade? Say if Spurs fail to to move up in the draft (which is likely), and most of the players they wanted are gone by 20?


Spurs receive: Tayshaun Prince and Chris Wilcox

Pistons recieve: Richard Jefferson and the #20th pick.



I know Prince had an injury riddled season last year, but the guy didn't miss one game in 6 consecutive years before last year; which indicates his true durability.

Not only that, but I believe Prince would be a better fit being a career 37% shooter from the distance and he also has a superior basketball mentality on both ends, which makes him much more proficient than R.J. He has been through a championship caliber system as a 4th and 5th option and knows how to efficiently pick his spots; something R.J had never been asked to do before last year.

I also believe his length would help the Spurs out tremendously on the defensive end and he would give the Spurs a lot of versatility, being the best option the Spurs have had as a small-ball four against the teams that go small.

He is also in his contract year, which should help his preparation going into next season.

I'd love this deal. IMO

As for Wilcox, he can be bought out; he is just a filler.

I hate this deal. For one, it looks like a lateral swap, with both guys declining. Secondly, both guys are expiring and we give up a 20th pick. No from this guy here. Let us not forget Jefferson is an extremely durable guy himself too.

[MaNu4Tres]

For one, it looks like a lateral swap

Ever heard the term, looks can be deceiving?

Prince would fit into the Spurs' brand of basketball much better IMO for the reasons I discussed in the previous post.



with both guys declining.

Prince may have lost a step in his athletic ability from his first 2-3 years out of college, but the guy has been as consistent as any player year in and year out being a 4th or 5th option. His production has not declined and nothing suggests his production will anytime soon with him only being 30 years old.



Secondly, both guys are expiring and we give up a 20th pick. No from this guy here.

Prince would be a better fit and is the better player in the situation (with the Spurs) and would be worth the 20th pick if the scenario that I proposed in the first sentence of my previous post were to play out . (I'm not sure if you read it.)

[admiralsnackbar]

Prince would be a better fit and is the better player in the situation (with the Spurs) and would be worth the 20th pick if the scenario plays out; which I proposed in the first sentence of my previous post . (I'm not sure if you read it.)

I like Prince, too, but Chieflion's makes a worthy point in that both RJ and Prince are on expiring contracts, so we'd give up the #20th just to rent Prince for a season. I'm all for "win now," but this deal leaves me a bit cold since it shoots our future in the foot and I don't believe we can get no one to help us at the 20.

[MaNu4Tres]

I like Prince, too, but Chieflion's makes a worthy point in that both RJ and Prince are on expiring contracts, so we'd give up the #20th just to rent Prince for a season.


What about this trade? Say if Spurs fail to move up in the draft (which is likely), and most of the players they wanted are gone by 20?


Spurs receive: Tayshaun Prince, Chris Wilcox and Pistons 2011 2nd round pick.

Pistons recieve: Richard Jefferson and the #20th pick.



I know Prince had an injury riddled season last year, but the guy didn't miss one game in 6 consecutive years before last year; which indicates his true durability.

Not only that, but I believe Prince would be a better fit being a career 37% shooter from the distance and he also has a superior basketball mentality on both ends, which makes him much more proficient than R.J. He has been through a championship caliber system as a 4th and 5th option and knows how to efficiently pick his spots; something R.J had never been asked to do before last year.

I also believe his length would help the Spurs out tremendously on the defensive end and he would give the Spurs a lot of versatility, being the best option the Spurs have had as a small-ball four against the teams that go small.

He is also in his contract year, which should help his preparation going into next season.

I'd love this deal. IMO

As for Wilcox, he can be bought out; he is just a filler.

Read the bold part..

Spurs would have to give up something, since they are the ones getting back the player they want.

Either by taking on Maxiell's contract (3 more years for 15 million), or by including the 20th pick or Blair or a future lottery protected 1st round pick. IMO

[TimDunkem]

I'm sure there will be a nice player at #20 this year.

[admiralsnackbar]

Read the bold part..

Yeah, sorry -- I edited myself before you posted for clarity's sake, but it looks like you beat me to the punch.

[lurker23]

@chadfordinsider

Scoop: Sixers agree to trade Dalembert to Kings for Nocioni and Hawes. Link coming shortly ...

http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider

Edit: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5297829

[RiverwalkParade]

@chadfordinsider

Scoop: Sixers agree to trade Dalembert to Kings for Nocioni and Hawes. Link coming shortly ...

http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider

Edit: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5297829

Is this setting up a draft day trade of Parker and the 20 for Nocioni, Kapono and the #2 (Favors)?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

It better not, Kapono sucks. And there's no way we can plug in the hole left behind by Parker.

[TD 21]

Prince wouldn't necessarily have to be a rental. The Spurs could re-sign him to an affordable 2-3 year deal if he shows his back issues are behind him and he's at least close to the player he was a couple of seasons ago.

It would be difficult to give up the 20th pick (in this scenario, the Spurs should try to get the Pistons 2nd round pick back), but worth it if the Spurs were convinced that Prince can do what I just said. There's the long three, who can play defense and knock down the three, that the Spurs need. It might sound like a lateral move, but Prince is (theoretically, at least) a better fit for the Spurs.

Then in free agency, the Spurs could focus solely on acquiring a shooter on the wing. They wouldn't have to look for someone with length, shooting and adequate defense, which is difficult to find in one when all you have to offer is the LLE or the minimum.

[RiverwalkParade]

With the news that splitter is probably coming over, would it be possible to partner his rights with McDyess and the 20 for a big with some success and higher pick in return?

[RiverwalkParade]

Would you pull this trade?

Spurs give:
McDyess/Splitter's Rights/De Colo's too/20th/Next year's 1st unprotected

Memphis gives:
Gasol/Young/12th pick

We get a young NBA experienced 7 footer, a young combo 2/3 and move up in the draft.

[MaNu4Tres]

Would you pull this trade?

Spurs give:
McDyess/Splitter's Rights/De Colo's too/20th/Next year's 1st unprotected

Memphis gives:
Gasol/Young/12th pick

We get a young NBA experienced 7 footer, a young combo 2/3 and move up in the draft.


No

[Chieflion]

No

You are kidding me, right? It does look kind of good, with the exception of the unprotected 1st, it should at least be lottery protected.

[RiverwalkParade]

I would think the Spurs would be all over this, I would just wonder if Memphis would do it.

We could reunite Blair and Young. They would be unstoppable

[kobyz]

what about RJ/Splitter for Garnett?

[TimmehC]

Take out Splitters rights and Gasol and I'm fine with that deal. Marc himself has said that Tiago is much better than he is. Maybe Marc has gotten a lot better since coming into the NBA, but he would know better than anyone else.

Funny, Marc is the guy I would compare Splitter's game to as being the most similar.

[TimDunkem]

Take out Splitters rights and Gasol and I'm fine with that deal. Marc himself has said that Tiago is much better than he is. Maybe Marc has gotten a lot better since coming into the NBA, but he would know better than anyone else.
I'd have a hard time dealing Dice (He's one of my favorite players) , but in the end, that's a great trade for the Spurs.


Funny, Marc is the guy I would compare Splitter's game to as being the most similar.
I dunno, he seems to be a mix of Varejao, and Gasol to me.

[Buddy Holly]

You are kidding me, right? It does look kind of good, with the exception of the unprotected 1st, it should at least be lottery protected.

That trade is moronic beyond belief.

[Buddy Holly]

Take out Splitters rights and Gasol and I'm fine with that deal. Marc himself has said that Tiago is much better than he is. Maybe Marc has gotten a lot better since coming into the NBA, but he would know better than anyone else.

Yeah, that's a little better but still I'd pass. Not worth just 8 spots.

I think subtract Splitter and Colo and keep in Gasol but the Spurs throw in Parker might be better.

Moving 8 spots is worth it now because you keep Splitter, Colo and get Gasol.

[Spurs Brazil]

76ers Still Looking To Make Deals

76ers general manager Ed Stefanski traded center Samuel Damelbert on Thursday, but he's not necessarily done dealing.

"After you come off of a 27-win season, you got to be aggressive," Stefanski said. "We are going to keep looking to see if we can tweak this even more. Yeah, we have to be more active."

He wouldn't name players he is willing to part with or positions he wants to upgrade through a trade.

"I don't know what positions or big needs [need attention], but we will just see the players that we have and what we can get back for them if it makes us better," Stefanski said. "We are not going to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. [Friday], we made a trade that made basketball sense to us."



Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67296/20100619/76ers_still_looking_to_make_deals/#ixzz0rOf74XgE

[ynh]

I hate this deal. For one, it looks like a lateral swap, with both guys declining. Secondly, both guys are expiring and we give up a 20th pick. No from this guy here. Let us not forget Jefferson is an extremely durable guy himself too.


Prince is not declining.. the last half of the season (when he wasn't injured for the first time in his career) was the best bball he has ever played.

Seriously the Pistons would be the ones to balk at this not the other way around. Joe likes Prince much more than Rip (that should say something.. well a little something). Prince is worth more than the 20th pick (really not going to count Jefferson because he is a down grade there) alone.. add the fact that he will be a proven player on an expiring contract at the trade deadline and he is worth much much more.. not even going to mention throwing in a second pick from the pistons is pushing it even more.

The only and.. really only way I would see this happening is if the trade was bigger and involved us getting ride of Max and getting back back more expiring or a good prospect on your end that makes $$ match.

But yea.. Joe right now is using Prince to move up in the draft.. not get jefferson and the 20th pick

[Chieflion]

Prince is not declining.. the last half of the season (when he wasn't injured for the first time in his career) was the best bball he has ever played.

Seriously the Pistons would be the ones to balk at this not the other way around. Joe likes Prince much more than Rip (that should say something.. well a little something). Prince is worth more than the 20th pick (really not going to count Jefferson because he is a down grade there) alone.. add the fact that he will be a proven player on an expiring contract at the trade deadline and he is worth much much more.. not even going to mention throwing in a second pick from the pistons is pushing it even more.

The only and.. really only way I would see this happening is if the trade was bigger and involved us getting ride of Max and getting back back more expiring or a good prospect on your end that makes $$ match.

But yea.. Joe right now is using Prince to move up in the draft.. not get jefferson and the 20th pick

Please keep Prince. You are overrating him. Both players, Jefferson and Prince are of the same age. Prince is now playing on a weak team that is the Detroit Pistons. We give up the 20th pick for a lateral swap. Prince is going to have a lesser role in SA, if he is traded here and his numbers would reflect that. He is putting up numbers on the 7th worst team in the NBA, and not even putting up that much, even though his effiency increased only because he lowered his touches, on a bad team. By my count, Jefferson averaged at least 19 points on the Milwaukee Bucks in the 2008-2009 NBA season, with Bogut out and his team was the 10th worst team. Jefferson will be worth way more at the trade deadline because he is also an expiring contract at 15 million dollars. The only other guy off my head that has a bigger expiring is Kirilenko at 16 million. LOL @ SA taking back Maxiell's contract, or us giving you guys Blair or George Hill. Oh, and where is that Pistons giving SA another pick from? It was definitely not there. Please continue the halluncination that is the Prince + 7th for a higher pick cause it is never going to happen.

[ynh]

Actually it is well published that the pistons and kings were talking about swapping Noccioni and the 5th for Prince and the seventh.

I don't overvalue Prince.. You are talking one side of the ball.. Prince is a proven defender.. Jefferson defends shit.. Jefferson in his role as not being top dog didn't even put up comparable numbers to when Prince was that guy.. I don't care what Jefferson did with the bucks and I'm pretty sure there aren't too many teams out there that do after the crap season that he had.. That's why you got him for nothing.

Seriously you sound like you know absolutely nothing.. your argument is that Prince would have a lesser role in SA and his numbers would reflect that!

When exactly was Prince the second option or go to guy like you are making him out to be.. The highest he's ever been is maybe 3rd.. and that would of been because someone was out with an injury.

why exactly does the fact he is playing on a weak team bring something against prince.. You argue against Prince saying he played on the 6th worse team.. then rave about the numbers that Jefferson put up when he was playing on the 10th worst team.

And at least debate me on what I said.. I never said hill or blair..

And you really aren't paying much attention if you don't even remember what the original trade mentioned said.

"Spurs receive: Tayshaun Prince, Chris Wilcox and Pistons 2011 2nd round pick."

[ynh]

And putting up numbers on the 6th worst team????

Did it even phase you to look at his numbers? His PPG were down.. all that went up was pretty much his FG%.. everything else stayed the same as his past seasons.. which I guess you don't know.. were numbers he had when he was the 4th or 3rd option like he would be on your team.

[Chieflion]

Actually it is well published that the pistons and kings were talking about swapping Noccioni and the 5th for Prince and the seventh.

I don't overvalue Prince.. You are talking one side of the ball.. Prince is a proven defender.. Jefferson defends shit.. Jefferson in his role as not being top dog didn't even put up comparable numbers to when Prince was the that guy.. I don't care what Jefferson did with the bucks and I'm pretty sure there aren't too many teams out there that do after the crap season that he had.. That's why you got him for nothing.

Seriously you sound like you know absolutely nothing.. your argument is that Prince would have a lesser role in SA and his numbers would reflect that!

When exactly was Prince the second option or go to guy like you are making him out to be.. The highest he's ever been is maybe 3rd.. and that would of been because someone was out with an injury.

What exactly does the fact he is playing on a weak team something against prince.. You argue against Prince saying he played on the 6th worse team.. then rave about the numbers that Jefferson put up when he was playing on the 10th worst team.

And at least debate me on what I said.. I never said hill or blair..

And you really aren't paying much attention if you don't even remember what the original trade mentioned said.

"Spurs receive: Tayshaun Prince, Chris Wilcox and Pistons 2011 2nd round pick."

And it didn't happen, for obvious reasons, because it was stupid to do so, Nocioni is then traded for Dalembert and they still keep their 5th. Clearly, you couldn't get the 5th, what about the rest of the top picks? You wanted a young prospect, that is Hill or Blair. I think it is easily defined because it is probably the only 2 we have that are actually good, unless you want fucking James Gist. You also sounded like Prince was the only one who played better at the end of the season when Jefferson also did the same thing, rebound better and played better defense. You also believe that the reason the Bucks traded Jefferson for the package that the Spurs offered is because Jefferson sucks, which clearly isn't the case. They were trying to avoid the luxury tax, and cut payroll, since they were not a playoff team, they got Bowen who they cut and saved 4 million, including luxury tax if they went in it. Further proof was in the pudding when they also refused to match Ramon Sessions' offer sheet of 4 million dollars. Players who put up numbers on scrub teams never had a good reputation of being good players on good teams. Zach Randolph is a prime example of that. And bringing out a 2nd round pick which isn't even in the original post, because it was edited is really good idea to make your point, it isn't there anymore, because it is not included in the proposal in the beginning, simple as that, if you want to complicate things further, go ahead. No one is raving about Jefferson's numbers, by comparison, however, way better than Prince. On the defensive side of the ball, Jefferson is nothing special, but not as bad as you would like to advertise here, so as to overrate one of the 2 Pistons left on the 2004 team, whose defense has clearly declined because he doesn't have Rasheed or prime Ben behind him anymore and his athletic ability has declined. As I have made my point in my previous posts, Prince is not even putting up big numbers on a scrub team. Reiterating the very fact that he is not even a top option on his team and his team sucks, shows how exactly "good" Prince is. Again, I don't like this deal because both contracts are expiring and we give up our 1st rounder. Even if he is better than Jefferson, it is not worth the extra player, which is the 20th pick, that has a chance of making the rotation next year.

You may not like it, but if you actually look at the Defensive Rating of Prince, which is 113, because he doesn't have both prime Wallaces on his team anymore. This shows how good a defensive team the Pistons were in 2004, which Prince was part of. To hype his defensive capabilities up without both Wallaces at this point is ridiculous as he doesn't have the type of defensive impact you are trying to set upon here.

Coming up more, in order to irritate you some more, here is a little tidbit, in the playoff nightmare matchup against LeBron James in 2009, obviously lopsided, Prince got his ass kicked on both defensive side of the ball, and offensive side of the ball. His PER is actually a horrendous -0.4. You got to suck a lot for that to happen.

[ynh]

Ok.

1. It is rumored that it was actually Joe that backed out of it.

2. Young prosect.. Actually I was thinking of the French Point guard that you guys seem to rave about.. Soto or something.. I don't know.. and I guess you don't either.

3. He had 17 good games.. The month of March to be exact.. Do yourself a favor.. Go to yahoo sports and look up Prince and Jefferson and do split stats. After you do that compare month to month.. Then come back to me again with that arguement. Look at Princes numbers from feb to the end of the season (these are the games when he wasn't having back problems) now compare that to Jeffersons last three months.. Then.. if you really want to.. come back and debate it more with me.

4. I'm sorry.. You got him because he is an overrated one way player that had almost the worst contract in the NBA (minus the years left.. but rather pay verse productions towards wins.)

5. The Second round pick was in the original post made by the guy with the back of duncan as his avatar.. If it's too hard to follow I was replying to that post..

Oh and Jesus Christ use a fucking enter key.. this is so damn hard to read.

6. "No one is raving about Jefferson's numbers, by comparison, however, way better than Prince."

Once again see yahoo sports.. please check out this years numbers for both and then come back and tell me again that Jefferson's numbers, by comparison, are way better than prince's"

And if that is not what you were saying sorry.. as I said the wall of text is a bit hard to read and follow.

7. Prince was never about athletic ability.. once again I completely don't think you have ever actually watched him play much of any. Or you wouldn't be saying that.. he is all about lenght and positioning.

8. Prince was injured half the year.. what was he supposed to be scoring while in a suit? He also still wasn't the first or second option.. Yet his numbers were more efficent.. Again.. Being the third or fourth option. Which is what you would be trading for.. Has it never hit you in the head that this is why Jefferson never worked.. cause he didn't spend his career putting up efficent numbers as the 3rd or 4th option?

I would pretty much say.. strongly say.. if the pistons were dumb enough to call the Spurs and say "hey lets do this.. I give you prince.. you give me jefferson and the 20th" they would do it in a heart beat. Prince is exactly what your team needs out of a small forward that is a third of 4th option.

Lastly.. If you reply.. put some enter keys in there.

[MaNu4Tres]

Please keep Prince. You are overrating him. Both players, Jefferson and Prince are of the same age. Prince is now playing on a weak team that is the Detroit Pistons. We give up the 20th pick for a lateral swap. Prince is going to have a lesser role in SA, if he is traded here and his numbers would reflect that.

He is putting up numbers on the 7th worst team in the NBA, and not even putting up that much, even though his effiency increased only because he lowered his touches, on a bad team. By my count, Jefferson averaged at least 19 points on the Milwaukee Bucks in the 2008-2009 NBA season, with Bogut out and his team was the 10th worst team. Jefferson will be worth way more at the trade deadline because he is also an expiring contract at 15 million dollars.

First off how is it a lateral swap?

Prince would be a much better fit for the Spurs than Jefferson. I guess you tend to just look at stats and base your opinion off that, but there's so much more than that. It's the same reason why I'd take Bruce Bowen at the age of 35 instead of Jefferson. Yeah Jefferson may have put up pretty stats on the Bucks, but the way he produced the production doesn't necessarily fit into the Spurs system.



Here are just a few issues I brought to light earlier in the thread:




Not only that, but I believe Prince would be a better fit being a career 37% shooter from the distance and he also has a great basketball IQ on both ends, which makes him much more effective in on both ends. He also has been through a championship caliber system as a 4th and 5th option under a similar system with Larry Brown and knows how to efficiently pick his spots; something R.J had never been asked to do before last year. (TBH Prince has been the 4th option offensively pretty much every year as a Piston; Behind Chauncey, Rip and Sheed in the beginning, and now behind Ben Gordon, Rodney Stuckey and Rip Hamilton; and he's always been able to be much more efficient than RJ was a 4th banana and he understands how to efficiently be effective in such a role.)

I also believe he is a much better defensive player and his length would help the Spurs out in this aspect especially against the Lakers when Odom plays the 4. He would give the Spurs great versatility not only on the defensive end but on the offensive end as well, as he would be the best option the Spurs have ever had as a small-ball four against the teams that go small.

He is also in his contract year, which should help his preparation going into next season.





Joe likes Prince much more than Rip (that should say something.. well a little something).

Pistons have Daye and Jerebko on the cheap for at least 2 more years at small forward. Factor in that with the fact that Prince is on the other side of 30 and with them being in rebuilding mode. That should tell you them trying to retain Prince after this year is highly unlikely and should make Prince very available.


And for those who are worried about Prince's back. Even though the Pistons were out of contention, the guy still played in all but 2 games since December 27th.

Not saying that Prince's back shouldn't be an issue anymore, but him playing in all those games after the fact should help people feel more optimistic about the guy.

[Chieflion]

First off how is it a lateral swap?

Prince would be a much better fit for the Spurs than Jefferson. I guess you tend to just look at stats and base your opinion off that, but there's so much more than that. It's the same reason why I'd take Bruce Bowen at the age of 35 instead of Jefferson. Yeah Jefferson may have put up pretty stats on the Bucks, but the way he produced the production doesn't necessarily fit into the Spurs system.



Here are just a few issues I brought to light earlier in the thread:



I also believe he is a much better defensive player and his length would help the Spurs out in this aspect especially against the Lakers when Odom plays the 4. He would give the Spurs great versatility not only on the defensive end but on the offensive end as well, as he would be the best option the Spurs have ever had as a small-ball four against the teams that go small.

He is also in his contract year, which should help his preparation going into next season.





Pistons have Daye and Jerebko on the cheap for at least 2 more years at small forward. Factor in that with the fact that Prince is on the other side of 30 and with them being in rebuilding mode. That should tell you them trying to retain Prince after this year is highly unlikely.


And for those who are worried about Prince's back. Even though the Pistons were out of contention, the guy still played in all but 2 games since December 27th.

Not saying that Prince's back shouldn't be an issue anymore, but him playing in all those games after the fact should help people feel more optimistic about the guy.
I wanted to reply to you just now, but I wanted to see how much ynh hypes his Tayshaun Prince up. Next year would be Jefferson's 2nd year with the Spurs. If we, in that hypothetical scenario, trade for Tayshaun Prince, which will be the first year he joins the team, so he has to learn the system, unlike Jefferson who already would have known the system.

Secondly, the fit you are talking about is again, a hypothetical scenario, whereby Prince actually is used properly.

Look at Jefferson, same guy who you people were claiming he would be the perfect fit to the Spurs' SF woes. Are you kidding me? Now, people want to trade him away because he doesn't fit in to the offense. QUITE FRANKLY, Tayshaun Prince is a player who creates for his teammates, who in actual reality, sets up his teammates more than Jefferson becuase he has the ball in his hands more. The same people claiming Jefferson was even good to fix our issues will be the same people will say that Prince will be the perfect fit for the system. The very same guy who needs to have the ball in his hands, because he needs it to set up other teammates. HOWEVA, the same reason why you people say he will be a good fit is the same reason why he will fail in a system where Parker, Ginobili and Hill will be the ones dominating the ball, setting up other teammates instead. Prince would then be relegated to spot up 3 point shooting and his defense isn't even as stellar as he was in the past. It would be same old story like Jefferson this past season. And you addressed the same issue I am going to address here. The Pistons have Daye and Jerebko as their small forward next season, so why would they trade Prince for Jefferson, both playing the same position. Is Jefferson going to play point guard with the Pistons?

Oh ya, I posted this way just to create more butthurt from ynh, same guy who blasted the Spurs fans from overvaluing their Spurs, then coming here, and overrating Prince's value.

Regarding 3 point shooting, Prince, although averaged 37% for his career, took only 1.9 per game as an average. Jefferson took 2 per game for his career, but only averaging 35%. In Milwaukee, Jefferson averaged close to 40% in 3s. I am not sure what you are complaining about here.

And now regarding post-ups, Jefferson is a better post-up option on the block than Prince, in my opinion, because he is stronger and has the strength to bang down low with his counterparts.

Not only that, we are practically looking at giving away the 20th pick here. I am not seeing any value here that benefits the Spurs. If we were to package our pick with Jefferson's expiring, even if it means getting a contract back which ends in 2012 or 2013, we will get a better player back than Tayshaun Prince.

Regarding young French point guard, Nando De Colo, he is not going to make major contributions to a team and I am not one of those who hype him up.

[ynh]

Pistons have Daye and Jerebko on the cheap for at least 2 more years at small forward. Factor in that with the fact that Prince is on the other side of 30 and with them being in rebuilding mode. That should tell you them trying to retain Prince after this year is highly unlikely and should make Prince very available.


.

I agree to some extent. Jerebko to me is a very good back up.. Not really starter to me but again things change.

Austin Day could very well be the person to push Prince out.

Thing I don't agree with is that Prince is highly unlikely to be retained after this year (saying of course we don't trade him).. Joe has been quoted quite often in the Detnews and Freep that he sees Prince as the player he would want to keep when moving forward.

Of Course I actually kinda hope he was talking out of his ass.. but he has said that.. And that pretty much is his way of saying he isn't just going to give him away... Which IMO and 99% of Piston fans would have the same reaction as I to the offer. For shits and giggles throw the offer in the piston forum.

[ynh]

Actually I thought it was funny as hell the hype you guys got for picking up Jefferson.. My cousin posts here, Mingus, and I laughed at him all summer telling him that Jefferson doesn't play shit for D and wouldn't work.. So no.. I am not YOU PEOPLE.

God damn stop referring me to me as YOU PEOPLE.. debate with me not what everyother piston fan has said.. I gave you enough material to work with.

Butthurt? Really? Are you 12?

Yea.. so hows that Parker for Harris and the 3rd pick going for.. Yeah that's quite on the same level as me saying Prince is worth more than the 20th.. way to exagerate.

God damnit stop talking about when he played for the bucks.. Who gives a shit.. If what you did two years ago ment anything for today everyone would be talking about McGrady being a great FA target. Stop going to the past when Jefferson was with the bucks to justify why he is a better fit than prince now.

[Chieflion]

Actually I thought it was funny as hell the hype you guys got for picking up Jefferson.. My cousin posts here, Mingus, and I laughed at him all summer telling him that Jefferson doesn't play shit for D and wouldn't work.. So no.. I am not YOU PEOPLE.

God damn stop referring me to me as YOU PEOPLE.. debate with me not what everyother piston fan has said.. I gave you enough material to work with.

Butthurt? Really? Are you 12?

Yea.. so hows that Parker for Harris and the 3rd pick going for.. Yeah that's quite on the same level as me saying Prince is worth more than the 20th.. way to exagerate.

God damnit stop talking about when he played for the bucks.. Who gives a shit.. If what you did two years ago ment anything for today everyone would be talking about McGrady being a great FA target. Stop going to the past when Jefferson was with the bucks to justify why he is a better fit than prince now.

I was replying to Manu4Tres, not sure what you meant here by saying YOU PEOPLE, but I definitely wasn't referring to you. No, I don't believe any other player can just drop off like a rock without a good reason, and since you are too slow to realize it, that means that he had a different defined role, and his production dropped, yet he still maintained decent efficiency scoring the ball and rebounded at a higher level since 2007, for Jefferson. I said Parker for Harris and 3rd was a brilliant deal, are you stupid, because it is clearly recorded, while most posters said it was a bad deal, I said it was fantastic. So, I have not only successfully debated your points about Jefferson not working hard, and I have proven I am not a fuckin homer. Ya, and Tayshaun Prince had a back injury a year ago, obviously it still means shit, no one cares about what he did 2 years ago, when he was the most durable person in the world and playing like the worst player in the league in the last playoffs he played in. You really want to continue this? Jefferson also had his problems last season, which everyone has forgotten that he had a ton of distractions like a called off marriage, back spasms. Again, Jefferson > Prince with his expiring value because his salary is bulky enough to bring back top-tier players as opposed to Prince's expiring value. And we still give up a 20th pick, and you are complaining about your precious 2nd round pick while asking for another stashed prospect. Goddamn, you sure chew off a lot for a "non-homer". Oh, and how is that 5th pick coming? If Joe Dumars backed off on it, he must be a dumber GM than I thought he was. And I have countered so many of your stupid points, yet you completely dismiss them and tell me to look at the stats. I will tell you the main stat. 27-55. Pistons' record in the 2009-2010 season. 4th option on offense: Tayshaun Prince. Tell me how much he sucks now. When you have no other reply than calling out the word "butthurt", with no legitimate Spurs' concerns, and calling us out because Joe Dumars is an idiot, ya, the only reasonable word to describe you would be "butthurt".

[ynh]

Dude I've been mentioning that he had a different role many of times.. "Which is what you would be trading for.. Has it never hit you in the head that this is why Jefferson never worked.. cause he didn't spend his career putting up efficent numbers as the 3rd or 4th option?" There you go.

Yea.. That dumb Gm built a team that went to 6 straight confrence finals, won a championship, and took you guys to game seven.. He's pretty dumb right.

Actually you never did debate my points.. every point I made you backed off on and went to what Jefferson did as a buck as an example of why he would be a better as the 3rd of 4th option on your team...

I have statistical proof that he wouldn't be better than prince in the role that you gave Jefferson last year.. Do you? Or are you going to again tell me how Jefferson put up numbers as the first option on the 10th worst team in the league 2 years ago?

And again.. paragraphs.. use them.. helps out the reader.

Answer that question and only that question.. And do it without telling me how Jefferson did two years ago for the bucks..

[ynh]

Do you have any idea the reason why the pistons were 27 and something?

Just curious cause I've now made it through your wall of text and see that you managed to turned that record (which tay played like half the games of) into an indication as to why tay sucks.

[Chieflion]

Dude I've been mentioning that he had a different role many of times.. "Which is what you would be trading for.. Has it never hit you in the head that this is why Jefferson never worked.. cause he didn't spend his career putting up efficent numbers as the 3rd or 4th option?" There you go.

Yea.. That dumb Gm built a team that went to 6 straight confrence finals, won a championship, and took you guys to game seven.. He's pretty dumb right.

Actually you never did debate my points.. every point I made you backed off on and went to what Jefferson did as a buck as an example of why he would be a better as the 3rd of 4th option on your team...

I have statistical proof that he wouldn't be better than prince in the role that you gave Jefferson last year.. Do you? Or are you going to again tell me how Jefferson put up numbers as the first option on the 10th worst team in the league 2 years ago?

And again.. paragraphs.. use them.. helps out the reader.

Answer that question and only that question.. And do it without telling me how Jefferson did two years ago for the bucks.. when he wasn't playing that role.
What statistical proof? The fact that Prince used the ball more than Richard Jefferson last year and yet produced at a relatively similar level when it comes to points?

Prince Usage Rate: 18.9%
Jefferson Usage Rate: 18.3%

Ya, okay. So, which player used the ball more? I would say Richard Jefferson was able to fit in better than Tayshaun Prince. Only people who are bitching about his production are people screaming "14 million, 14 million for this ?" What Tayshaun Prince does as a Piston has absolutely nothing on what he will do as a Spur, since this is what you preached. I mentioned Jefferson's career high for 3 point shooting percentage because QUITE FRANKLY, this is OUTSTANDING.

Spurs fan last off-season: We need someone who can get to the free throw line, and generate points.

Richard Jefferson: 4.1 Free throw attempts per game
Tayshaun Prince: 2.0 Free throw attempts per game

Puh-lease, even with the down year at generating free throws, Jefferson >> Prince at this particular department. So, I don't believe this bullshit about Prince doing better with the Spurs than Jefferson.

What I am seeing here is Jefferson fitting in to the 5th option, because George Hill had a usage rate of 19%. This means that Jefferson is doing better than Prince on a better team than Prince in a similar role.

[ynh]

Hell Jefferson had back spasms.. Put up 20 something points a game 2 years ago as a buck on the 10th worse team (which I guess this applys negatively to prince but has no effect on Jefferson if they were on shitty teams).. Prince had a bad back all last year.. and the fucker still put up better numbers. Your points are hollow.

[ynh]

Holly shit.. 0.6 percent!.. you got me.. this debate is over. You win.

[ynh]

Wow.. Jefferson shot more FTs.. You got me there..

Hey there genious.. You do realize that prince has the same exact number for his OUTSTANDING three point percentage right? Just checking.. (wait for him to come back saying yes but jefferson shot it two more times a game).....

User rating.. Jesus how many websites did you have to look through to find that shit statistic.. Seriously here I thought you had the porn window up on your explorer and that's why it was taking you so long.

Jefferson has a 0.6 higher userrating and as you can see this is why he is better.. and we want fts.. yes.. Why.. because that is the only damn stat that I can find that Jefferson had higher than prince on..

Get out of here.

[Chieflion]

Holly shit.. 0.6 percent!.. you got me.. this debate is over. You win.

Keep crying. You haven't offered a single statistical explanation on why Prince will fit in better than Jefferson. I have said it is a lateral swap and it is pointless doing it. Jefferson will be on the Spurs for a 2nd season, 1 more than Prince if he joins, so Jefferson will know the system better than Prince. You are just being a crybaby now. 0.6% is still a difference.

[Chieflion]

Boo hoo hoo. I can't admit I lost a basketball debate, so I have to resort to stupid shit like sarcasm.

Fixed. Ya, because I can't be reading the PMs I received for a Spurstalk game we are going to be having. And "butthurt" is a very good way to describe you right now, since you can't figure out the meaning of the words "lateral swap".

[ynh]

God that is so fucking childish... lol

Yea I've just gone over and over again saying for you to look at something other than HIS USER RATING.. what ever the fuck that shit is.. look at real stats you know.. I even gave you the sites. Again.. Please tell me what stats.. Other than FT.. Jefferson was so much better at.. What we are comparing here is two people in like positions within their team.. And oddly with likeable injuries.. although I'd beg to say tays was worth.. but I'll be nice and say they were even.

Now.. take into account that this is what tay has done all his career in the role he has had all his career.

Now.. I even told you to tell me what each players stats were from Feb to the end of the year.. beings you retorted me when I said that prince turned it on at the end of the year by saying so did Jefferson.

Don't give me some shitty ass stat that you had to google search shit for.

I don't give a shit about their user rating.. and no one here does.

I swear this is the stupidest fucking debate.. I serious can not believe I'm having it.. from someone that wouldn't trade jefferson and the 20th pick for Prince.. ok.... Cause.. fuck I don't know.. You have a shits chance of getting a role player with that pick and Jefferson is going to land you a Gasol trade in your head.

[Chieflion]

Boo hoo hoo. I can't retort properly because I can't offer a single reason why Prince > Jefferson with the exception of his overrated defensive impact.

Fixed.

[Chieflion]

God that is so fucking childish... lol

Yea I've just gone over and over again saying for you to look at something other than HIS USER RATING.. what ever the fuck that shit is.. look at real stats you know.. I even gave you the sites. Again.. Please tell me what stats.. Other than FT.. Jefferson was so much better at.. What we are comparing here is two people in like positions within their team.. And oddly with likeable injuries.. although I'd beg to say tays was worth.. but I'll be nice and say they were even.

Now.. take into account that this is what tay has done all his career in the role he has had all his career.

Now.. I even told you to tell me what each players stats were from Feb to the end of the year.. beings you retorted me when I said that prince turned it on at the end of the year by saying so did Jefferson.

Don't give me some shitty ass stat that you had to google search shit for.

I don't give a shit about their user rating.. and no one here does.

I swear this is the stupidest fucking debate.. I serious can not believe I'm having it.. from someone that wouldn't trade jefferson and the 20th pick for Prince.. ok.... Cause.. fuck I don't know.. You have a shits chance of getting a role player with that pick and Jefferson is going to land you a Gasol trade in your head.

I am looking at more detailed and advanced stats here. I am guessing you can't comprehend the fact that Jefferson and Prince had similar roles at SA and Detroit respectively and that their production is similar makes it a lateral swap and that RJ's strengths are the ones we need in SA, not Prince's ball handling skills because of our superior guards.

What are real stats? Raw box scores? You know nothing.

[ynh]

jesus.. fine now tell me how they are even..

[ynh]

Ah.. so you are saying you need a better shooter I take it. Pitty Prince isn't better at jefferson than that.

[Chieflion]

I am using sarcasm again.

Fixed. You are so dumb. We needed a player who can get to the line and attack the rim. Prince ain't that, as I have reiterated through the amount of free throw attempts.

[ynh]

What you really want.. Is those 2 more made free throws.. It is a pitty that Prince isn't a better shooter... Oh and I do wish it was a corner three that he shoots all the time.. that probably would help you.. But I'm sure that's what Jefferson does.. along with those 2 more FTs.

[Chieflion]

LOL at yahoo sports being a better site than www.basketball-reference.com

Please just get the fuck out of here.

[ynh]

Really? Cause I could of just swore you were bragging about Jeffersons OUTSTANDING three point shooting..

I would rather those 2 more ft attempts though.. You have a good point.

[ynh]

Let see.. maybe if you actually watched players instead of trying to go by their user rating.. I'm not the one that said Prince creates for his teamates.. is less athletic and relys on that to defend.. has lost a step.. has increased his numbers this year because he is on a worse team.

[ynh]

And Jefferson is a better post player.

[ynh]

But jefferson does shoot 2 more FTS.. and that's what the spurs want.... Spur fans must be happy.

[Chieflion]

38.4% for Jefferson from the corner 3. 32.7% for Prince at the corner 3. Man, another great shooting spot that is used for the Spurs offense, and it is quite apparent that Prince is not that good at it.

LOL @ ynh and his retarded brain. He should be looking for the site where I got this stat. What a dumbass. :lmao

Edit: LOL at user rating. It is usage rating. And all those useless comments were just cop outs because he cannot present a legit statement on why Prince is better for the Spurs, which happens to be the premise of the discussion.

What a dumbfuck.

[ace3g]

Warriors, Wolves No Longer Discussing Randolph Deal

The Warriors and Timberwolves are no longer having trade discussions involving forward Anthony Randolph.

"Not happening," one league source told the San Jose Mercury News. "Dead."

ESPN.com reported earlier this month that the two teams were in talks about Randolph.

Golden State is expected to listen to offers for Randolph.

Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67319/20100621/warriors_wolves_no_longer_discussing_randolph_deal/#ixzz0rWrI2OrT

[kobyz]

big trade idea: Spurs-Raptors-Rockets

Spurs give:
Richard Jefferson
Tiago Splitter
#20 Pick

Spurs gets:
Hedo Turkoglu
Shane Battier
#13 pick
#14 pick

Raptors give:
Chris Bosh(s&t)
Hedo Turkoglu
Jose Calderon
#13 pick

Raptors gets:
Tiago Splitter
Aaron Brooks
Richard Jefferson
Jordan Hill
Jared Jeffries

Rockets give:
Jared Jeffries
Shane Battier
Aaron Brooks
#14 pick

Rockets gets:
Chris Bosh(s&t)
Jose Calderon
#20 pick


Spurs roster after trade:
Tony Parker/George Hill
Manu Ginobili/Paul George or Xavier Henry(#13 pick)
Shane Battier/Hedo Turkoglu
Tim Duncan/DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess/Hassan Whiteside or Ed Davis(#14 pick)

Raptors roster after trade:
Aaron Brooks/Jarrett Jack/Marcus Banks
DeMar DeRozan/Marco Belinelli
Richard Jefferson/Sonny Weems
Andrea Bargnani/Reggie Evans/Jared Jeffries
Tiago Splitter/Jordan Hill

Rockets roster after trade:
Jose Calderon/Kyle Lowry
Kevin Martin/Chase Budinger/Jermaine Taylor
Trevor Ariza/Damion James(#20 pick)
Chris Bosh/Luis Scola
Ming Yao/David Andersen/Chuck Hayes

[Chieflion]

I want to have nothing to do with Hedo Turkoglu's contract.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski WojYahooNBA

Warriors have traded Corey Maggette to Bucks for Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric, league source confirms.

[DesignatedT]

Adrian Wojnarowski WojYahooNBA

Warriors have traded Corey Maggette to Bucks for Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric, league source confirms.

wow.

[mountainballer]

double wow.
that's really what they call pure salary dump.
Bucks now have Maggette AND Delfino. in my books that's one to much of that kind. do they trade Delfino?

[Mel_13]

double wow.
that's really what they call pure salary dump.
Bucks now have Maggette AND Delfino. in my books that's one to much of that kind. do they trade Delfino?

If Delfino is waived before June 30th, the team that holds his contract can pay him 500K and not owe him the other 6.5M remaining on his contract. Interesting trade piece to send to a team looking to create more cap space.

[yavozerb]

double wow.
that's really what they call pure salary dump.
Bucks now have Maggette AND Delfino. in my books that's one to much of that kind. do they trade Delfino?
:toast, one less team who needs to draft a sf...

[DPG21920]

I can't believe the Spurs did not offer RJ for that. Unreal if that was the price. I am not sure how much a Mag for Delfino swap (if Delfino is traded or waived) does for them as Delfino fit well there, but it is still a very good trade because Mag for that price is pretty damn solid.

[DPG21920]

Also, if the rumors of Salmons opting out are true, getting Mags to fill the void is not a bad option at all to remain competitive. It will be interesting to see Mag on a very, very good defensive team.

[TD 21]

I wouldn't automatically assume that the Bucks are not going to draft a wing. Redd is damaged goods and will almost certainly be traded by the '11 trade deadline, while Salmons is most likely gone, Stackhouse probably isn't returning either and they gave up Bell in this trade. So right now, they have Maggette and Delfino on the wings, with Mbah a Moute who can play the three (and technically Ilyasova as well, though they use him strictly as a four). Not exactly loaded on the wings.

Keep in mind, this was not a good three-point shooting team, so don't be surprised if they draft Henry if he falls that far or possibly even Anderson. Granted, they need depth on the front line as well, so don't be surprised if they go with Aldrich if he falls that far or Sanders.

If I were the Bucks, I'd draft Henry if he's there at 15, shift Delfino primarily back to SG (which is his natural position) and go primarily with a three wing rotation of Maggette, Delfino and Henry.

The Bucks need quality players and they're not exactly a prime destination for such players. Delfino is far from a star, but he had a solid season and I doubt they'd look to move him.

As for offering Jefferson for Maggette, I doubt the Spurs wanted to take on the extra two years of Maggette's contract.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, I understand them not wanting to take on the salary, but if they are looking to win now, they have to find a way to upgrade. What they have is not cutting it and we know RJ does not fit.

But it is hard to know what the true plan is because there is probably a lot of different directions they will go depending on how the draft/fa go.

[mountainballer]

If Delfino is waived before June 30th, the team that holds his contract can pay him 500K and not owe him the other 6.5M remaining on his contract. Interesting trade piece to send to a team looking to create more cap space.

interesting!
and now Bucks traded for CDR! (for a 2nd round pick. would be a steal)
pretty sure that Delfino will be traded, or Bucks will waive him to slim down the payroll. they will likely want to re sign Salmons after he opted out, but don't want to get into lux tax territory.
Redd (if healthy), Salmons, Maggette, CDR, Mbah, Iljasova is a nice group to cover the wing spots.

btw. Delfino IS a nice target for the LLE! (don't know if this is enough to get him though)

[Blackjack]

I've done a bit of an about-face with regards to Delfino, as I've never been much of a fan. He just rubbed me the wrong way.

But I've gotta say, he could be a pretty nice get. He's got a lot of what the Spurs need on the wing (size, athleticism and a 3-point shot), he's got a relationship with Manu and he's a vet that's established himself in the league.

I'm not advocating that he be the target or that he's the best option, but he could wind up being a pretty good get.

[Mr Bones]

I read last year where some people thought Delfino was a prima donna, but when I watched him play this season for Milwaukee he seemed like exactly the opposite of that-- a hard-nosed, tough player. But I can't see him signing for the LLE.

[Blackjack]

I read last year where some people thought Delfino was a prima donna, but when I watched him play this season for Milwaukee he seemed like exactly the opposite of that-- a hard-nosed, tough player. But I can't see him signing for the LLE.

I think part of it is that he looks like he was made to play a Commodus-type role.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CjiSVTmjV-k/SrvxbMhLAgI/AAAAAAAAADs/5WCsGmWn8wU/s320/vexed.jpg

He just looks like the epitome of Judas. :lol

[Mr Bones]

I think part of it is that he looks like he was made to play a Commodus-type role.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CjiSVTmjV-k/SrvxbMhLAgI/AAAAAAAAADs/5WCsGmWn8wU/s320/vexed.jpg

He just looks like the epitome of Judas. :lol

:lol True... he's a bit heavy on the hair product and looks like he's wearing mascara... could spurstalk accept an aggressive and productive metrosexual?? Or is that asking too much?

[Cane]

:lol True... he's a bit heavy on the hair product and looks like he's wearing mascara... could spurstalk accept an aggressive and productive metrosexual?? Or is that asking too much?

RJ's not exactly known for being masculine so maybe they can hook up? :lol

[ace3g]

chadfordinsider

Wolves-Grizzlies talking about an Al Jefferson-Zach Randolph swap http://es.pn/cGniri

[Spurs Brazil]

Mo Williams Begs Not To Be Traded
Jun 23, 2010 1:31 PM EST

Mo Williams has been the subject of trade rumors this week, but the point guard wants to remain with the Cavaliers.

"Pls don't trade me," wrote Williams on his Twitter page. "I'm not ready to go. I'm begging. My work ain't done yet. I'm on both knees....pls. I'm serious."



Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67390/20100623/mo_williams_begs_not_to_be_traded/#ixzz0ri1cETWA