General Trades Discussion

[yavozerb]

If bulls are trying to move Gibson, I'd be happy w/ parting w/ Hill, Neal, Anderson or Butler (in that order) for him. Gibson has length, athleticism and can play defense.

The Spurs have 5, count them 5 SGs (I don't care what anyone says, Butler is an SG). Losing one of the above would be of little impact.

Why the heck would anybody want Butler? Right now Butler holds 0% value to other teams and maybe 1% value to the spurs. I would not even pencil him for a roster spot yet for next season....

[jesterbobman]

In any Bulls trade, realise they have two shitty first rounders this year but a future pick fom the Bobcats that has value. I'd guess they'd rather move those than Taj Gibson, and would have value to other teams, possibly enough to move to 10 or so and snare Alec Burks or Klay Thompson.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Why the heck would anybody want Butler? Right now Butler holds 0% value to other teams and maybe 1% value to the spurs. I would not even pencil him for a roster spot yet for next season....

Butler is injured but won't stay that way forever. He was a lottery pick until he got hurt according to many.

[Russo21]

Parker and McDyess to Boston for Rajon Rondo and Jermaine O'neal

Why San Antonio do it

We get perhaps the best distributer in the nba at 11 assists per game and perhaps the best defensive PG with 2.3 steals per game. Rondo could help out our perimeter D and get RJ involved better then tony (if RJ is not traded which i hope he is) and he would probably make life a lot easier for Tim having an old school PG passing the rock to him in positions to score instead of tony looking to score first and Tim trying to clean up. Jermaine was hurt most of last year but the previous year he averaged 13pts 7reb and 2blocks, by far and away better then any big not named Tim Duncan on our roster. Yes i know he's a bit old and busted but whatever.

Why boston do it

Boston get a legit all star PG to make a nasty quartet of parker, allen, pierce and garnett and as they are about 20 million over the cap, yes 20 million, they save a fair chunk of $$ with McDyess retiring while still remaining strong contenders in the east.

Boston.......................San Antonio
C ..............................C Jermaine O'neal
PF Kevin Garnet ...........PF Tim Duncan
SF Paul Pierce .............SF RJ or F/A SF or RJ trade partner
SG Ray Allen ...............SG Manu Ginobili
PG Tony Parker ............PG Rajon Rondo

Both lineups would be pretty freakin nasty

[EricD]

Parker and McDyess to Boston for Rajon Rondo and Jermaine O'neal

Why San Antonio do it

We get perhaps the best distributer in the nba at 11 assists per game and perhaps the best defensive PG with 2.3 steals per game. Rondo could help out our perimeter D and get RJ involved better then tony (if RJ is not traded which i hope he is) and he would probably make life a lot easier for Tim having an old school PG passing the rock to him in positions to score instead of tony looking to score first and Tim trying to clean up. Jermaine was hurt most of last year but the previous year he averaged 13pts 7reb and 2blocks, by far and away better then any big not named Tim Duncan on our roster. Yes i know he's a bit old and busted but whatever.

Why boston do it

Boston get a legit all star PG to make a nasty quartet of parker, allen, pierce and garnett and as they are about 20 million over the cap, yes 20 million, they save a fair chunk of $$ with McDyess retiring while still remaining strong contenders in the east.

Boston.......................San Antonio
C ..............................C Jermaine O'neal
PF Kevin Garnet ...........PF Tim Duncan
SF Paul Pierce .............SF RJ or F/A SF or RJ trade partner
SG Ray Allen ...............SG Manu Ginobili
PG Tony Parker ............PG Rajon Rondo

Both lineups would be pretty freakin nasty


Full blown retarded post. :tu

[Big P]

I laughed.

[Russo21]

Full blown retarded post. :tu

And why do you two say that? At least give a reason why

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Jermaine Oneal is washed up. Rondo is a better fit for the Celtics than the Spurs.

[Russo21]

Yeah like i said o'neal is a bit busted. He hardly played this year but i can't remember what his injury was and why he missed so much time?

Positives for San Antonio

1. 2010 jermaine averaged 13 7 and 2, not bad at all if he could stay healthy and do that again. He is still younger then tim at 32 and bigger stronger and longer then blair splitter and bonner.

2. Rondo would help with perimeter D which is badly lacking for san antonio and his passing abilities could help Tim out and even help RJ return to some form of respectability.

A big if, but if jermaine could stay healthy it could be a nice lineup. High risk high reward trade.

Negatives for San Antonio

1. Jermaine could get injured at any moment and miss the season.

2. Simple, Rondo can't shoot. Opposing defenses could leave him open and collapse on tim and manu and make life harder for them instead of easier.

This is the think tank. No need to be politically incorrect and calling people retarted for voicing an oppinion.

[Russo21]

Heard Utah are looking to deal Millsap and Harris if they can get a reasonable deal done.

Parker and Bonner/ Parker and Dice for Millsap and Harris would work out.

Duncan
Milsap 17pts 8 rebounds 1 block 1.5 steals
RJ/FA SF
Ginobili
Harris 16pts 7 assists 1 steal

Would be quite nice additions.

[TimmehC]

^ not bad. I'd still worry about the D, but that's an immediate PF upgrade.

[ernest787]

No thanks

Wed have 2 Dejuan Blairs on the roster. Doesn't help with our size issues or defensive issues in the middle

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I must admit, I'm new to this site but find it much like everywhere else - quite a few people w/ honestly good opinions that are based on knowledge of the game, study of prospects and at least a modicum of understanding of how contracts, salary caps, bird rights, etc. work. Other opinions seemed to be more based out of emotion for one particular player or another, wishful desires or just plain lopsided deals that put the Spurs near the finals next year while dessimating the trade partner.

I think Spurs fans, all of us, need to realize that TP was right in his assessment - the Spurs are just about good enough to compete during the regular season (when you don't have to play the same team back to back to back) but aren't built to contend for a Championship (when your most expensive player is about 60% of what he used to be, you have no real defensive front line due to size/age and one injury keeps you from succeeding).

You can hate on me if you want, but the truth is the truth. Outside of trading for Dwight Howard, no one else is realistic possibility that might put the Spurs in the position to contend.

So, the only true WIN NEXT YEAR trade is:

Tony Parker, James Anderson, Tiago Splitter, this year's 1st round pick, next year's 1st round pick for Dwight Howard

There would probably be 3rd team involved for the Magic to offload Jameer nelson to make the cap #s right.

[Big P]

:wow

[Buddy Holly]

Far stretched but:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=44al2qr

[Buddy Holly]

Another piper:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ozxll7

[Russo21]

^ not bad. I'd still worry about the D, but that's an immediate PF upgrade.

After that they could try trade RJ for a better defensive SF to fix the D. Ron Artest and Trevor Ariza come to mind. All three of them earn similar $ but artest and ariza's defense are light years better then RJ's.

and or

Boris Diaw and Kwame Brown are both free agents. If we snagged them they could fortify the defense inside and on the wing and add much needed size and bulk to the roster.

Duncan/ Kwame
Milsap/Splitter
Ariza or Artest/Diaw
Manu/Neal
Harris/Hill

Not a bad 10 man rotation :toast

Something like that:flag:

[Big P]

Diaw is on the books for $9 mil this year..he is not a fa.

[Russo21]

Diaw is on the books for $9 mil this year..he is not a fa.

My bad. I thought he was an unrestricted F/A. cheers:toast

[ace3g]

Knicks, T-Wolves Discussing Trade Involving Douglas, Flynn

The Knicks have had preliminary discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves about a trade for point guard Jonny Flynn.

No formal deal is in place, but the Knicks are debating whether Flynn, the sixth overall pick of the 2009 draft would be a viable option to back up Chauncey Billups for at least one season. Flynn has become expendable now that the Wolves have signed Spanish guard Ricky Rubio, who was taken one pick ahead of Flynn.

Toney Douglas would likely be the player traded for Flynn. However, Douglas is coming off major shoulder surgery, which in theory would make him tough to deal. But Flynn is a similar medical risk. The 6-foot guard out of Syracuse had hip surgery last July and was limited to 53 games in his second year, not including a stint in the D-League.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214188/Knicks_T_Wolves_Discussing_Trade_Involving_Douglas _Flynn#ixzz1Pm4mJ4by

[DirkDoesWork]

Knicks, T-Wolves Discussing Trade Involving Douglas, Flynn

The Knicks have had preliminary discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves about a trade for point guard Jonny Flynn.

No formal deal is in place, but the Knicks are debating whether Flynn, the sixth overall pick of the 2009 draft would be a viable option to back up Chauncey Billups for at least one season. Flynn has become expendable now that the Wolves have signed Spanish guard Ricky Rubio, who was taken one pick ahead of Flynn.

Toney Douglas would likely be the player traded for Flynn. However, Douglas is coming off major shoulder surgery, which in theory would make him tough to deal. But Flynn is a similar medical risk. The 6-foot guard out of Syracuse had hip surgery last July and was limited to 53 games in his second year, not including a stint in the D-League.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214188/Knicks_T_Wolves_Discussing_Trade_Involving_Douglas _Flynn#ixzz1Pm4mJ4by

Should've picked Brandon Jennings

[jesterbobman]

Should've picked Stephen Curry

[Russo21]

Elton Brand + Andre Iguodala + Jrue Holiday
for
Tony Parker + Richard Jefferson + Matt Boner + Antonio McDyess

Duncan
Brand 15pts 8reb 1.3 block 1.1 steals 51%
Iguodala 14 + pts 6reb 6 ast 1.5 steals 34% 3PFG
Ginobili
Holiday 14pts 4 reb 7 ast 38% 3PFG 1.5 steals

Duncan and Brand would make an all round fantastic tag team at C and PF with size and muscle, offense and defense, inside and outside game. One of the best interior combos in the game.

Ginobili and Iguodala would create havoc together offensively and defensively at SF and SG. Also one of the best wing combos in the game.

Holiday is young and steady coming into his 3rd year. Would have experienced options all around him to pass to or for defences to leave him open. Can shoot the three at a pretty good clip and be a pain in the ass on defense.

Our defense would be light years better then it was last year. Youth and experience. Offense and Defense. Outside and inside game. No holes or weaknesses anywhere that i can see.

Would be nice to see

NOTE: Yahoo reports that the 76ers want to deal Iguodala this week and the Clippers are the frontrunners with a Chris Kamaan swap.

[Russo21]

3 team trade

Portland San Antonio and Utah

Portland get........... Utah Get..................San Antonio get
Tony Parker .............Richard Jefferson........Marcus Camby
Antonio McDyess ......Dejuan Blair...............Gerald Wallace
..............................Rudy Fernandez...........Devin Harris

That leaves San Antonio with

C Marcus Camby
PF Tim Duncan
SF Gerald Wallace
SG Manu Ginobili
PG Devin Harris

Not too bad. Portland get an all star PG and cap relief. Utah get a starting SF to replace AK47 if he leaves and a decent backup PF and SG. Spurs get bigger and better, more defensive and an adequate starting PG.

[Russo21]

Anyone know when the trading period and free agency begin?

[Vic Petro]

Trades can happen right now but CBA expires June 30 so owners/players must have a new deal before free agency can begin.

[Russo21]

Thanks Vic Petro. Peace

[Ditty]

Russo, the only way the Spurs get rid of Jefferson is if they take another bad contract, and get the same value back(unless an owner is stupid enough to think a bad player can help).

Brand>>Bonner,Mcdyess
Iggy>>Jefferson(very similiar offensive players but Iggy is actually a great defender)
Parker>Jrue but Jrue is younger, and 6ers love Jrue also, and them acquiring Parker would make them a win now team which there 3 or 4 years from being.

If we threw in Splitter except Bonner that could interest them a little bit more, but in the past the 76ers only wanted to trade Iggy if it meant the team taking Brand. I think Kaman is more of an need for the 76ers, then a point guard, and Brand is starting to fit in a little bitter. If RJ was an expiring contract, of course the sixers would be all over this trade even if meant giving Iggy for a worse player.

[TDMVPDPOY]

3 team trade

Portland San Antonio and Utah

Portland get........... Utah Get..................San Antonio get
Tony Parker .............Richard Jefferson........Marcus Camby
Antonio McDyess ......Dejuan Blair...............Gerald Wallace
..............................Rudy Fernandez...........Devin Harris

That leaves San Antonio with

C Marcus Camby
PF Tim Duncan
SF Gerald Wallace
SG Manu Ginobili
PG Devin Harris

Not too bad. Portland get an all star PG and cap relief. Utah get a starting SF to replace AK47 if he leaves and a decent backup PF and SG. Spurs get bigger and better, more defensive and an adequate starting PG.

this is what i dont get with the blazers owner, wanting to shred salary....dude ur a fkn billionaire with net assets of what ? 20b? just interest payments alone from that is enough to buy a few NBA teams...

[Russo21]

Yeah the dick co-founded microsoft and is totally loaded. He also owns an NFL and MLS team. Crazy how rich some people are.

He has a yacht which is equipped with two helicopters, two submarines, a swimming pool, a music studio and a basketball court. All that shit in a freakin yacht! The list goes on and on. Rich bastard.

Our very own Peter Holt on the other hand is worth about 80 million. Peanuts compared to what the Cuban's and Allen's of the NBA make. It's amazing how the Spurs have been so good for so long!

[Buddy Holly]

Elton Brand + Andre Iguodala + Jrue Holiday
for
Tony Parker + Richard Jefferson + Matt Boner + Antonio McDyess

Duncan
Brand 15pts 8reb 1.3 block 1.1 steals 51%
Iguodala 14 + pts 6reb 6 ast 1.5 steals 34% 3PFG
Ginobili
Holiday 14pts 4 reb 7 ast 38% 3PFG 1.5 steals

Duncan and Brand would make an all round fantastic tag team at C and PF with size and muscle, offense and defense, inside and outside game. One of the best interior combos in the game.

Ginobili and Iguodala would create havoc together offensively and defensively at SF and SG. Also one of the best wing combos in the game.

Holiday is young and steady coming into his 3rd year. Would have experienced options all around him to pass to or for defences to leave him open. Can shoot the three at a pretty good clip and be a pain in the ass on defense.

Our defense would be light years better then it was last year. Youth and experience. Offense and Defense. Outside and inside game. No holes or weaknesses anywhere that i can see.

Would be nice to see

NOTE: Yahoo reports that the 76ers want to deal Iguodala this week and the Clippers are the frontrunners with a Chris Kamaan swap.

This works:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3vae7xw

[Russo21]

Bout the same as i suggested. But we wouldnt really need or want Nocioni like you included. Especially for 6.8 million:toast

[MaNu4Tres]

This works:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3vae7xw

:lol

[ace3g]

KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
by sam_amick
You can wipe the Pau Gasol-to-Minnesota rumor from your memory banks. "Not happening," says a source. #NBA #draft

[Pistons < Spurs]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Cleveland's trying to get a 3rd first round pick -- in the 20's -- dangling its two second rounders (32 and 54) and maybe cash, sources say.

[ernest787]

^^^

This kinda interest me. You could probably get Parsons at 32 and then use the other 2 late second rounders to take some projects or flyers on some guys

Its not like we are getting a game changer at 29 anyone and then we don't have to guarante money to someone who probably isn't going to get PT anyway

[TheProfessor]

Saw something on rotoworld that the Bucks might have interest in Brandon Rush and that his time in Indiana may soon be through. Could be worth it to pick up the phone and see what the Pacers would want in exchange. Shoots the three well and has defensive potential.

[ace3g]

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
The Atlanta Hawks are gauging interest around the league in Josh Smith, sources confirm. They did the same at the trade deadline last year.

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
Dwight Howard wants Josh Smith in Orlando, but we'll see if the Magic have the pieces to get a deal done.

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
Josh Smith has always wanted to reunite with Howard. He told me as much last year (bottom of page): http://tinyurl.com/ybmofrd

[5in10]

First, Can Toronto absorb Tonys contract from the Bosh Trade exception? Second, If they could wouldn't that make sense to get like maybe Amir Johnson or Ed Davis, and the # 5 Pick, for Tony make sense? Maybe draft a SF or PG with the #5. With that available cap space could we make like a run at Greg Oden, Nene, or Chandler? If possible I would do that in a heartbeat.

[ace3g]

SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Lakers have no interest in trading Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum, source said.

SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Clipps still looking for starting SF. Would trade anyone other than Blake or Gordon unless AllStar offered. Expiring deals, picks,trade bait

[Russo21]

As ace3g just reported. If the Clippers are looking for a starting SF how about

RJ and Bonehead for Chris Kamaan?

They get the starting SF they want and we get the starting C we so desperately need

[Russo21]

Total bullshit. Why would the spurs trade tony for a freakin draft pick? That's pretty much slapping the great tim duncan in the face and saying we cant win. A freakin draft pick? They can friggen well do better then that. We have 1 more year left to possibly win. What the fuck is trading tony for a draft pick gonna do for the last year or so of the tim duncan era.

[MaNu4Tres]

Total bullshit. Why would the spurs trade tony for a freakin draft pick? That's pretty much slapping the great tim duncan in the face and saying we cant win. A freakin draft pick? They can friggen well do better then that. We have 1 more year left to possibly win. What the fuck is trading tony for a draft pick gonna do for the last year or so of the tim duncan era.

They wouldn't trade Parker for just a draft pick.

It would have to be a package of a good young prospect(s) and a draft pick(s).

[Russo21]

I've noticed Washington don't have a single SF on their roster. I wander if the silly pricks would do a RJ for Andray Blatche swap.

For us: He's young and huge at 6'11 260lbs and averaged 17pts 8reb 1.5stl and 1block. An instant starting big next to timmeh to bring back the twin towers.

For Washington: They get the SF they need and although RJ has been shithouse the last two years maybe the fantastic young PG John Wall could get him involved the way JKidd did back in the jersey days and help RJ turn back the clock.

[Mr. Body]

They wouldn't trade Parker for just a draft pick.

It would have to be a package of a good young prospect(s) and a draft pick(s).

Or Parker + getting rid of RJ's contract.

[Buddy Holly]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6hjvs6m

'Sota sends number two to Suns.

[DPG21920]

Why would Minny give up the number 2 for TP when they have Rubio and Flynn?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

@DraftExpress
Jonathan Givony
Heard from more than one team that Ersan Ilyasova is available in exchange for a 1st rounder (even late) or a 2012 1st.http://twitter.com/#!/DraftExpress/status/83626556341235712

[objective]

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftExpress/status/83626556341235712

I've read on Bucks forums that Spanish media outlets are reporting that Ilyasova wants to buyout his contract to return to Europe.

[ace3g]

Philly, Lakers talk Iguodala for Odom, and Minnesota in play for Iguodala too. At SI.com - http://bit.ly/l4dy8E

[tdunk21]

Philly, Lakers talk Iguodala for Odom, and Minnesota in play for Iguodala too. At SI.com - http://bit.ly/l4dy8E

damn the lakers....they are trying to reload and we aint doing shit

[Mr. Body]

damn the lakers....they are trying to reload and we aint doing shit

Yeah. Gee, too bad no Spurs are being mentioned in trade talks about now...

[wildbill2u]

Re all the recent TP trade rumors. We just got an all-star and finals MVP to resign for four years when he could have gone to the bright lights in a bigger market. He got a nice contract but he wanted to stay with the Spurs.

I know this is a business, but hey FO, where's the love and the loyalty?

[Mr. Body]

I know this is a business, but hey FO, where's the love and the loyalty?

It fucked Erin Barry.

[Russo21]

It fucked Erin Barry.

Damn right. Cheated on his super hot wife with his teammates/ex teammates super hot wife, fuck you tony parker. We really don't need tony on the roster. This is the age of the PG in the NBA. Tony is not even top 10 in the NBA. Maybe not even top 15!!

Let's see

Point Guards better then Tony Parker that i can think of

Mike Conley Jnr (owned Tony in the playoffs)
Stephen Curry
Tyreke Evans
Raymond Felton
Brandon Jennings
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
Derrick Rose
John Wall
Deron Williams
Russell Westbrook

Devin Harris and Jrue Holiday aren't far behind tony, maybe even on par with him. Baron Davis is old but nearly just as good. Aaron Brooks? I am sure i missed a few names in that list aswell if anyone here can add more names. Tony is far from being a top 10 PG, and i mean very very far from being a top 10 PG.

I hope we trade his ass soon and get something sweet in return somehow.

[jesterbobman]

S-Jax is apparently off the market, 3 Team Deal between Bucks, Bobcats and Kings

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6697545

Bucks get Jackson, Beno, Livingston and 19th pick(For Maggette, Salmons & 10)
Kings get Salmons and 10(For Beno and 7)
Bobcats get Maggette & 7th pick(For Jackson, Livingston and 19)

[Big P]

SJax could be moved again.

[CGD]

So now that Hill is gone, what do our trade assets look like? Clearly we can't move TP anymore.

Wonder what Blair could fetch; plus, doesn't Leonard essentially duplicate Blair's main skill (rebounding)?

[jesterbobman]

I'd guess that we could use some combination of Dyess's contract, Blair and Jefferson to trade, if that's indeed the method we're using to improve. At most, I'd say we're aiming for a starting SF. Probably look at teams with no small forward, a system that suits RJ and a good backup PF, or a team that needs rebounding and wants to cut salary.

[MaNu4Tres]

Varejao, Kaman, Bass, Tyrus Thomas should be potential targets.

Blair/McDyess for Bass/min. addition works and is something I'd consider.

Blair/RJ and next years 1st for Varejao is another I'd obviously consider with the signing of Grant Hill or Battier happening right after.

[Isitjustme?]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20103

Korver is really good at backpedaling and getting impregnated by Le Bron on a fast break And-1 though

[outmap]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=62nu9yq
for next years draft:
we'd also get the wiz and sacs 1st rd pick.
sac would get our 1st rd pick.
wiz will get our 2nd rd pick.

[elemento]

Thank god we did not trade Parker for that garbage trade purposes.

We still need a big and we still have to get rid of Dick Jefferson.

[Duncan2177]

This trade

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6eachv7

[ace3g]

For CBA experts out there, do you expect teams to make more trades than usual prior to July 1st (when old CBA expires)?

[spurs10]

Thank god we did not trade Parker for that garbage trade purposes.

We still need a big and we still have to get rid of Dick Jefferson.
:toast

[CGD]

I'd be for an RJ/SJX straight up swap. SJax said not to be happy about the trade to Bucks, and the trade works money wise. Sure the Buck take on 1 extra year of contract, but at least it'll be a valuable expiring at that point. Worse case, toss the Buck a 2nd rounder next year.

Plus they save themselves dealing with a disgruntled player they'd potential have to move/buyout. For the Spurs, Jax would bring back some much needed swagger.


SJax could be moved again.

[yavozerb]

I'd be for an RJ/SJX straight up swap. SJax said not to be happy about the trade to Bucks, and the trade works money wise. Sure the Buck take on 1 extra year of contract, but at least it'll be a valuable expiring at that point. Worse case, toss the Buck a 2nd rounder next year.

Plus they save themselves dealing with a disgruntled player they'd potential have to move/buyout. For the Spurs, Jax would bring back some much needed swagger.

:lol, Its gonna take alot more than a late 2nd to make the Bucks think about doing this trade..

[Spurtacus]

:lol, Its gonna take alot more than a late 2nd to make the Bucks think about doing this trade..

I agree. Perhaps they would be interested in taking McDyess' contract in addition to a 2nd rounder.

[CGD]

:lol, Its gonna take alot more than a late 2nd to make the Bucks think about doing this trade..

I don't think it's that far fetched. A disgruntled SJax, who earns nearly an identical salary as RJ in both 2011-12 and 2012-13? Plus, by 2013-14 Bucks will have a 10M expiring contract.

Bad Contract for Bad Contract probably the only way we move RJ. At this point we'd just be hoping the received contract is a better fit...


I agree. Perhaps they would be interested in taking McDyess' contract in addition to a 2nd rounder.

Think your right about Dice. He'll help offset some of the 10M in the last year of RJ's deal, albeit, the saving will be front-loaded. Not a bad thing heading toward the cap uncertainty this summer.

[elemento]

I think the Bucks might consider if we offer Jefferson + Dice for S-Jax and Gooden.

They will not get the adicional 11m year of RJ last year for a 2nd round pick.

[benefactor]

Gooden is basically the PF version of RJ and is paid a year longer. Spurs would have to get a lot better player than Jack to make that palatable.

[MaNu4Tres]

IMO- Three of the most realistic/possible deals to find a 3rd quality big man to go with Duncan/Splitter:

1) Blair + Jefferson + 1st for Anderson Varejao+ Joey Graham

2) Jefferson + Blair + McDyess for Tyrus Thomas + Diop or Carroll + Najera

3) Blair + McDyess for Brandon Bass +minimum filler

[elemento]

Gooden is basically the PF version of RJ and is paid a year longer. Spurs would have to get a lot better player than Jack to make that palatable.

I know that and i do not want any part of Gooden with the Spurs uniform.

My point was: The Bucks will not get the aditional 11m year of RJ for a 2nd round pick. They got rid of 2 bad contracts and I am sure they do not want any part of RJ's 30m contract.

[EricD]

IMO- Three of the most realistic/possible deals to find a 3rd quality big man to go with Duncan/Splitter:

1) Blair + Jefferson + 1st for Anderson Varejao+ Joey Graham

2) Jefferson + Blair + McDyess for Tyrus Thomas + Diop or Carroll + Najera

3) Blair + McDyess for Brandon Bass +minimum filler

Very nice possibilities :tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

IMO- Three of the most realistic/possible deals to find a 3rd quality big man to go with Duncan/Splitter:


2) Jefferson + Blair + McDyess for Tyrus Thomas + Diop

Would be all over that.

[CGD]

I know that and i do not want any part of Gooden with the Spurs uniform.

My point was: The Bucks will not get the aditional 11m year of RJ for a 2nd round pick. They got rid of 2 bad contracts and I am sure they do not want any part of RJ's 30m contract.

I agree the 11M is a hard sell. What I am saying that we're likely only moving RJ for an equally "bad" contract and that the following factors may help mitigate that 11M cost:

(1) By that points its an expiring contract that Bucks can package
(2) SJax is not happy about being in Milwaukee
(3) A 2nd pick adds some some value (next year's draft is projected good)
(4) If Spurs can include Dice, you front load savings on some of that 11M in a year where there is cap uncertainty.

[Mel_13]

(4) If Spurs can include Dice, you front load savings on some of that 11M in a year where there is cap uncertainty.

So you are suggesting that the Spurs take back Gooden in the trade?

[CGD]

So you are suggesting that the Spurs take back Gooden in the trade?

Ideally no, but obviously if we include Dice we have to take something back. The thing to watch for is what the Bucks do with Redd. If they resign him, that may put Defino's 3.5M contract in play.

Dice+RJ+2nd round pick for Jax+Defino works: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine. Bucks immediately shed Defino's 3.5M and save $$ on Dice's partially guaranteed deal. What's the net saving, roughly 1.5M this year?

The other thing to watch for is how obnoxious SJax is going to be about the trade to the Bucks. If he's going to be a punk, then the value from some sort of pick, in addition to the front loaded savings discussed above, may work. Don't underestimate the front-loaded savings with the prospect of a hard cap.

[Mel_13]

Ideally no, but obviously if we include Dice we have to take something back. The thing to watch for is what the Bucks do with Redd. If they resign him, that may put Defino's 3.5M contract in play.

Dice+RJ+2nd round pick for Jax+Defino works: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine. Bucks immediately shed Defino's 3.5M and save $$ on Dice's partially guaranteed deal. What's the net saving, roughly 1.5M this year?

The other thing to watch for is how obnoxious SJax is going to be about the trade to the Bucks. If he's going to be a punk, then the value from some sort of pick, in addition to the front loaded savings discussed above, may work. Don't underestimate the front-loaded savings with the prospect of a hard cap.

Delfino's contract is for 3.5M, only 500K of which is guaranteed. If they wanted to save money on his contract, they would just cut him. If you include Dice in the deal to create cost savings for the Bucks, it means taking Gooden's awful contract back.

It's entirely possible that Jackson forces the Bucks to trade him, much as he forced the Warriors. It's much less likely that RJ would be the best offer they could get for him.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Delfino's contract is for 3.5M, only 500K of which is guaranteed. If they wanted to save money on his contract, they would just cut him. If you include Dice in the deal to create cost savings for the Bucks, it means taking Gooden's awful contract back.

It's entirely possible that Jackson forces the Bucks to trade him, much as he forced the Warriors. It's much less likely that RJ would be the best offer they could get for him.

gooden was the only player that showed up for them last season, dunno why they thinkn of trading or dumpin his contract

jax + delfino but i prefer at leasts a big to be included....

[CGD]

Delfino's contract is for 3.5M, only 500K of which is guaranteed. If they wanted to save money on his contract, they would just cut him. If you include Dice in the deal to create cost savings for the Bucks, it means taking Gooden's awful contract back.

It's entirely possible that Jackson forces the Bucks to trade him, much as he forced the Warriors. It's much less likely that RJ would be the best offer they could get for him.

Good catch, didn't realize Delfino was partial-guaranteed but see it now. Hmm... Since it's about taking something back to make a work, we could accept Dooling's 2.2M expiring instead (deal works). Bucks still save some cash this year (about 500K) from the net difference.

I agree that it may not be the best offer they receive for Jax, but don't think Jax would command to much more either...

[Tyrone Jenkins]

It's been posted that the Spurs talked to quite a few teams about trading TP before the draft. Part of the conversation from Buford was that they would entertain any offer as long as the offer included RJ being part of the package.

As you can see, both TP and RJ are still Spurs. Noone wants RJ and his $30 mil over the next 3 years - no matter who you package w/ him.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6fmc4oe

Spurs

C Duncan
PF Odom
SF Leonard or F/A SF
SG Manu
PG Davis

Parker to the Lakers.
Jefferson and Walton can be happy together in cleveland lol

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6yjfbjq

Duncan
Odom
Ariza
Manu
Harris

[Mel_13]

Someone needs to stop playing with the Trade Machine..

[Russo21]

Yes sir big boss man

[Russo21]

It's a widely known fact the spurs are actively shopping Jefferson and your precious Tony Parker included. Anything could go down any day now.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

you realise that trade involves a straight up swap of Richard Jefferson for Devin Harris?...

[yavozerb]

Someone needs to stop playing with the Trade Machine..

:lol, maybe ESPN will shut that down when the season goes away, lets hope at least...

[Mel_13]

It's a widely known fact the spurs are actively shopping Jefferson and your precious Tony Parker included. Anything could go down any day now.

:lol

[yavozerb]

It's a widely known fact the spurs are actively shopping Jefferson and your precious Tony Parker included. Anything could go down any day now.

:rolleyes, Tp's not going anywhere..

[Russo21]

you realise that trade involves a straight up swap of Richard Jefferson for Devin Harris?...
yeah i do. they may need a SF if AK47 doesnt resign

[Russo21]

And seriously. The Luke Walton and RJ thing i put in to cleveland. That was a joke. Surely you knew that. The happy couple cloud thrive in the same team and locker room lol

[Russo21]

:rolleyes, Tp's not going anywhere..
Dont be in denial to long.They put him out there for bait. Its a matter of time before some other team bites.

[Mel_13]

yeah i do. they may need a SF if AK47 doesnt resign

You're really reaching now.

They have Hayward, Miles, and Evans to cover the SF position. There's just no way that they trade their only legit PG to add 30 million dollars of RJ to a position that they already have well-manned.

[Russo21]

never heard of those clowns so i dont know if they are any good? if they are then no they wouldnt want to do that trade. i thought theyd have nothing at SF if AK47 left. My bad

[Russo21]

San Antonio get
Devin Harris
Tyrus Thomas
Antawn Jamison

Utah get
Baron Davs to offset losing Harris

Bobcats get
Bonner McDyess and Raja Bell

Cleveland get
Parker Jefferson, Najera

Trade machines link failed on me but that sums it up

Leaves us with
C: Tim Duncan
PF: Tyrus Thomas
SF: Antawn Jamison
SG: Manu Ginobili
PG: Devin Harris

Fuck yeah

[Mel_13]

San Antonio get
Devin Harris
Tyrus Thomas
Antawn Jamison

Utah get
Baron Davs to offset losing Harris

Bobcats get
Bonner McDyess and Raja Bell

Cleveland get
Parker Jefferson, Najera

Trade machines link failed on me but that sums it up

Leaves us with
C: Tim Duncan
PF: Tyrus Thomas
SF: Antawn Jamison
SG: Manu Ginobili
PG: Devin Harris

Fuck yeah

Spurs do that trade, Cleveland thinks about it, and Utah is laughing so hard that they forget to hang up the phone. The only thing funnier than BDavis in Cleveland is BDavis in Salt Lake City.

[Biggems]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6fmc4oe

Spurs

C Duncan
PF Odom
SF Leonard or F/A SF
SG Manu
PG Davis

Parker to the Lakers.
Jefferson and Walton can be happy together in cleveland lol

are you a Lakers fan in Spurs clothing?

[Biggems]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6yjfbjq

Duncan
Odom
Ariza
Manu
Harris

Again, are you a Lakers fan in Spurs clothing? SHEESH

[Biggems]

San Antonio get
Devin Harris
Tyrus Thomas
Antawn Jamison

Utah get
Baron Davs to offset losing Harris

Bobcats get
Bonner McDyess and Raja Bell

Cleveland get
Parker Jefferson, Najera

Trade machines link failed on me but that sums it up

Leaves us with
C: Tim Duncan
PF: Tyrus Thomas
SF: Antawn Jamison
SG: Manu Ginobili
PG: Devin Harris

Fuck yeah

Jamison sucks now....he has an occasional good night, but he is definitely on the downside of his career. BTW, even with James, Jamison was playing like donkey feces.

[Biggems]

I have heard rumors that Josh Smith may be on the trading block....what would it possibly take to get him. I love his rebounding, shot blocking, and athleticism....not to big on his shot selection though. Still, just curious what the Spurs would have to potentially offer to try and get him. I doubt we honestly have a chance in Hell, though.

[Spurtacus]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess retirement contract
2nd round pick

We get our starting center and backup PG for the season. Cavs could do this to clear some payroll and pick up a SF they need. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a Center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). I think the Cavs will be looking to deal a big (Varejao or Hickson) and also a PG (Davis or Sessions).

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

[Ditty]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess retirement contract
2nd round pick

We get our starting center and backup PG for the season. Cavs could do this to clear some payroll and pick up a SF they need. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a Center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). I think the Cavs will be looking to deal a big (Varejao or Hickson) and also a PG (Davis or Sessions).

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

I like that one. If Spurs could go after a Prince or Battier in free agency, Spurs will be back in business.

[mountainballer]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess retirement contract
2nd round pick

We get our starting center and backup PG for the season. Cavs could do this to clear some payroll and pick up a SF they need. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a Center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). I think the Cavs will be looking to deal a big (Varejao or Hickson) and also a PG (Davis or Sessions).

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

will at least take another 1st rounder from the Spurs. I would still do it.
question is, why do the Cavs do it? just to get a veteran SF? (who is on the downside and on a bad contract). Blair duplicates what Hickson already delivers. they want to get rid of Sessions, sure, but first they will try to move Davis. so, nice trade for the Spurs, but not really attractive for the Cavs. so, not realsitiy IMO.

[Spurtacus]

will at least take another 1st rounder from the Spurs. I would still do it.
question is, why do the Cavs do it? just to get a veteran SF? (who is on the downside and on a bad contract). Blair duplicates what Hickson already delivers. they want to get rid of Sessions, sure, but first they will try to move Davis. so, nice trade for the Spurs, but not really attractive for the Cavs. so, not realsitiy IMO.

I was looking at it as a salary dump and picking up a vet SF. But the salary part isn't really much. Something like this might work better for Cleveland if the Cavs were looking to unload Gibson.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5t6xtq2

Cavs instantly free up some room with McDyess. They also get a better contract in RJ (instead of Varejao) and a scoring wing. Spurs would have to flip Sessions or Gibson though.

[TimmehC]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess retirement contract
2nd round pick

We get our starting center and backup PG for the season. Cavs could do this to clear some payroll and pick up a SF they need. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a Center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). I think the Cavs will be looking to deal a big (Varejao or Hickson) and also a PG (Davis or Sessions).

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

Excellent.

[elemento]

The Cavs do not do it because Andy is the only guy that can play C in their roster. And his contract is decent for a good defensive big man like him.

We should target Minny if we want a big. They have so many guys in the frontcourt that will not get minutes. They have 2 PF/SF tweeners (Beasley and Williams), Anthony Randolph, Kevin Love, Darko Milicic, Nikola Pekovic, Anthony Tolliver and Brad Miller. I think they will keep Beasley, Williams, Love and Randolph.

Darko, Pek, Tolliver and Miller would be our cheap options using Dice's expiring. Any preferences?

[TD 21]

The Cavs do not do it because Andy is the only guy that can play C in their roster. And his contract is decent for a good defensive big man like him.

We should target Minny if we want a big. They have so many guys in the frontcourt that will not get minutes. They have 2 PF/SF tweeners (Beasley and Williams), Anthony Randolph, Kevin Love, Darko Milicic, Nikola Pekovic, Anthony Tolliver and Brad Miller. I think they will keep Beasley, Williams, Love and Randolph.

Darko, Pek, Tolliver and Miller would be our cheap options using Dice's expiring. Any preferences?

The problem is three of those four are C's (and plodding ones at that) and given that Buford has made it clear that they view Duncan and Splitter as their C's, there's no fit. Tolliver would be a decent fifth big, but he's not starters material and the Spurs are searching for a starting PF.

The Cavs have the cap space to go and sign a stop gap at C, such as Brown. Or they could go and trade for Biedrins or R. Lopez, or drastically overpay Jordan or Gasol and hope one of their teams doesn't match. They also have Hollins and Erden under contract, so they're not completely bare, as far as bodies go.

[elemento]

The problem is three of those four are C's (and plodding ones at that) and given that Buford has made it clear that they view Duncan and Splitter as their C's, there's no fit. Tolliver would be a decent fifth big, but he's not starters material and the Spurs are searching for a starting PF.

The Cavs have the cap space to go and sign a stop gap at C, such as Brown. Or they could go and trade for Biedrins or R. Lopez, or drastically overpay Jordan or Gasol and hope one of their teams doesn't match. They also have Hollins and Erden under contract, so they're not completely bare, as far as bodies go.

Yeah, but Pop gave an interview and he said he will consider moving TD to the PF position if he starts TD and Splitter. TD can still play PF offensively. Defensively, they just switch positions and Splitter guards PFs. We have done it before when we had TD and Fabs. And I think Pop doesn't want to play Bonner with Blair again and he is right of course. One of Minny's big could help the Spurs to fill this hole. Not to best option, but considering our situation and our assets, it's a good option.

Yeah, the Cavs could get a C in the offseason but they could get none. Why would they risk losing the only C in their roster to get Richard Jefferson and another PF ? And it's much easier to get a SF in the free agency than a C. They could make an offer for Tayshaun Prince, Caron Butler, Wilson Chandler, Jeff Green, Shane Battier, Wilson Chandler and Mbah a Moute, all better players than Jefferson. And they still keep Andy.

[TD 21]

Yeah, but Pop gave an interview and he said he will consider moving TD to the PF position if he starts TD and Splitter. TD can still play PF offensively. Defensively, they just switch positions and Splitter guards PFs. We have done it before when we had TD and Fabs. And I think Pop doesn't want to play Bonner with Blair again and he is right of course. One of Minny's big could help the Spurs to fill this hole. Not to best option, but considering our situation and our assets, it's a good option.

Yeah, the Cavs could get a C in the offseason but they could get none. Why would they risk losing the only C in their roster to get Richard Jefferson and another PF ? And it's much easier to get a SF in the free agency than a C. They could make an offer for Tayshaun Prince, Caron Butler, Wilson Chandler, Jeff Green, Shane Battier, Wilson Chandler and Mbah a Moute, all better players than Jefferson. And they still keep Andy.

They made it clear they want a shooting four to replace McDyess. It can't just be a one dimensional type, such as Bonner, it needs to be someone who can at least hold their own defensively and on the glass. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad option, it just doesn't sound as if it's the route they'll go.

With their cap space and willingness to spend, they could definitely get one. It just depends, if they want Chandler, Dalembert, Jordan or Gasol, it's going to take a drastic overpayment. If they want a stop gap, they could easily sign Brown or trade for R. Lopez, etc. They already have two C's under contract. Who cares if neither is close to starting caliber? The goal should be to be as bad as possible for the next few seasons, give themselves the best possible chance at high picks and form a core that can amount to something resembling decent.

[Spurtacus]

Yeah, but Pop gave an interview and he said he will consider moving TD to the PF position if he starts TD and Splitter. TD can still play PF offensively. Defensively, they just switch positions and Splitter guards PFs. We have done it before when we had TD and Fabs. And I think Pop doesn't want to play Bonner with Blair again and he is right of course. One of Minny's big could help the Spurs to fill this hole. Not to best option, but considering our situation and our assets, it's a good option.

Yeah, the Cavs could get a C in the offseason but they could get none. Why would they risk losing the only C in their roster to get Richard Jefferson and another PF ? And it's much easier to get a SF in the free agency than a C. They could make an offer for Tayshaun Prince, Caron Butler, Wilson Chandler, Jeff Green, Shane Battier, Wilson Chandler and Mbah a Moute, all better players than Jefferson. And they still keep Andy.

What was your trade proposal with Minny?

Granted, but alot of teams will be after those guys. Butler and Green could get close to 10 million a year and I don't believe the Cavs are going to rebuild with an overpaid SF, Davis, and Varejao on their payroll. I can't really see them making a big splash on someone this offseason. I don't see them spending big until Jamison comes off in 2011. Then Davis in 2012. They have to be targeting a young budding star with their cap room.

Right now. SF is a greater need then PF/C. That's why I believe a RJ for Varejao has some worth. Its basically a wash, but the Spurs would throw in McDyess contract and maybe a first round pick instead of Blair. We can also take back the contracts of Sessions and Gibson. Cleveland gets a SF and cap relief.

[elemento]

They made it clear they want a shooting four to replace McDyess. It can't just be a one dimensional type, such as Bonner, it needs to be someone who can at least hold their own defensively and on the glass. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad option, it just doesn't sound as if it's the route they'll go.

With their cap space and willingness to spend, they could definitely get one. It just depends, if they want Chandler, Dalembert, Jordan or Gasol, it's going to take a drastic overpayment. If they want a stop gap, they could easily sign Brown or trade for R. Lopez, etc. They already have two C's under contract. Who cares if neither is close to starting caliber? The goal should be to be as bad as possible for the next few seasons, give themselves the best possible chance at high picks and form a core that can amount to something resembling decent.

If they only consider a shooting 4 that can defend and rebound i just cannot find a reasonable option in the market considering our situation and our assets. Unless the FO is considering to trade another young asset, like Anderson or Neal, we will not get this type of 4.

:toast

[TD 21]

If they only consider a shooting 4 that can defend and rebound i just cannot find a reasonable option in the market considering our situation and our assets. Unless the FO is considering to trade another young asset, like Anderson or Neal, we will not get this type of 4.

:toast

Exactly. That's why it's going to have to come via trade and as far as I can tell, Thomas is the best realistic option.

I don't think the Cavs not having a starting C at the moment would be a deal breaker. With Varejao/Erden injured, they played the bulk of last season with Hickson/Holllins at C anyway.

They'd get a potential future lottery pick, a quality, inexpensive young asset that they could flip for help on the wings, such as Rush or, if they added Gibson, potentially Mayo. It gives them options. The difference between doing this and doing what you propose is that they wouldn't add a ton of salary and they'd plug a hole even more glaring than C.

It may take the Spurs throwing in one more quality asset to close the deal, such as Anderson (the Cavs could send back a future 2nd). Then, the Spurs could sign Battier/Watson and end up with this . . .

Thomas/Bonner/Samuels
Battier/Leonard/Butler
Duncan/Splitter
Ginobili/Neal
Parker/Watson/Joseph

They could keep Green or go with a more offensive third SG to round out the roster.

[elemento]

What was your trade proposal with Minny?

Granted, but alot of teams will be after those guys. Butler and Green could get close to 10 million a year and I don't believe the Cavs are going to rebuild with an overpaid SF, Davis, and Varejao on their payroll. I can't really see them making a big splash on someone this offseason. I don't see them spending big until Jamison comes off in 2011. Then Davis in 2012. They have to be targeting a young budding star with their cap room.

Right now. SF is a greater need then PF/C. That's why I believe a RJ for Varejao has some worth. Its basically a wash, but the Spurs would throw in McDyess contract and maybe a first round pick instead of Blair. We can also take back the contracts of Sessions and Gibson. Cleveland gets a SF and cap relief.

I did not make one. I just said we could use Dice's expiring + something to sweeten the deal to get one of those guys.

You just gave us all the points that make this trade unreasonable. If they don't want to overpay to get one of those SF options in the free agency, why would they get Jefferson, a guy that makes 30m in the next 3 years? And if they won't make a big splash on someone in the next 2 seasons (knowing that they will suck with this lineup and they will just tank to get nice picks), why should they worry so much about their starting SF ? If the Cavs have the intention to suck, they could let anyone play in the SF position. They would not pay 30m to a SF just to suck.
If they want a good improvement in the SF position, Jefferson is not the answer.

Andy will receive 26m in the next 3 years and the last year of his contract is only partially guaranteed (4m to be exact). He makes the same amount of money of Jefferson, he has a good value around the league and he is a fan favorite. Jefferson has negative value, his contract is awful and he plays in a position much easier to find a player.
As i said in the other thread, this trade only helps the Spurs. It does not help the Cavs in any way.

:toast

[TD 21]

I did not make one. I just said we could use Dice's expiring + something to sweeten the deal to get one of those guys.

You just gave us all the points that make this trade unreasonable. If they don't want to overpay to get one of those SF options in the free agency, why would they get Jefferson, a guy that makes 30m in the next 3 years? And if they won't make a big splash on someone in the next 2 seasons (knowing that they will suck with this lineup and they will just tank to get nice picks), why should they worry so much about their starting SF ? If the Cavs have the intention to suck, they could let anyone play in the SF position. They would not pay 30m to a SF just to suck.
If they want a good improvement in the SF position, Jefferson is not the answer.

Andy will receive 26m in the next 3 years and the last year of his contract is only partially guaranteed (4m to be exact). He makes the same amount of money of Jefferson, he has a good value around the league and he is a fan favorite. Jefferson has negative value, his contract is awful and he plays in a position much easier to find a player.
As i said in the other thread, this trade only helps the Spurs. It does not help the Cavs in any way.

:toast

It's not about Jefferson (I just added a few reasons why acquiring him wouldn't be all bad for them). It's about getting 2-3 quality young assets and despite taking an albatross, not adding a ton of payroll. If the Spurs throw in Anderson and the Cavs send back Gibson, it goes from debatable to a no brainer for them.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Again, people...

Any team willing to take on RJ at this point is not a smart franchise. Would you buy a 8 year old Honda Civic w/ no A/C and the check engine light on for $30k? What makes you think any reasonable team would trade anyone worthwhile for RJ?

[Russo21]

I have heard rumors that Josh Smith may be on the trading block....what would it possibly take to get him. I love his rebounding, shot blocking, and athleticism....not to big on his shot selection though. Still, just curious what the Spurs would have to potentially offer to try and get him. I doubt we honestly have a chance in Hell, though.

i think they should at least pick up the phone and see if we have anything atlanta would want in exchange for him. Sure he's a bit of a bonehead with an attitude problem but whatever. He's worth the cost of a phone call to see what they'd want:wakeup

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5udvqk4

i like that. Fucked if i know why they reckon we'd be -10

Marcus Camby - career 10 rebounds and 2.5 blocks
Tim Duncan
Trevor Ariza- 11points 5 rebounds long body excellent defense
Manu Ginobili
Raymond Felton- 15points 8 assists 2 steals, somehow undervalued

Solid, long, defense would be night and day compared to this years team

[EricD]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5udvqk4

i like that. Fucked if i know why they reckon we'd be -10

Marcus Camby - career 10 rebounds and 2.5 blocks
Tim Duncan
Trevor Ariza- 11points 5 rebounds long body excellent defense
Manu Ginobili
Raymond Felton- 15points 8 assists 2 steals, somehow undervalued

Solid, long, defense would be night and day compared to this years team

You're the biggest joke of this thread.

Get a clue.

[Russo21]

And you are the second biggest asshole on this forum. Pure loser

[EricD]

And you are the second biggest asshole on this forum. Pure loser

Rather be an asshole than a typical forum idiot, who has no clue about the game of basketball.

So thank you.

[Russo21]

If we can't get rid of RJ, which i hope we still can, a good way to get RJ to stop sucking so bad would be to help him out by getting one of the best distributers the NBA has ever seen.

Tony Parker for Steve Nash. Straight up.

Why Phoenix do it: Get a younger decent PG at the start of a contract to offset Steve Nash's impending retirement in the next few years

Why San Antonio do it: They go balls out for one more ring. Nash would make Duncan's life a lot easier, Stevie would never miss an opportunity for a teammate to get an easy score, which Parker quite often does. RJ played his best ball with Jason Kidd. I'm sure he'd go back to being a respectable NBA player with Nash sending the rock his way in positions to score constantly.

Duncan and Nash have mad respect for each other and they could most likely retire together. It would not solve our deffensive issues obiously. We'd have to figure that out via free agency i suppose. But Nash sure will solve the RJ suckage and TD's ageing issues.

TD= Legend
Nash= Legend

[Russo21]

Start the hating fuckas:toast

[Tyrone Jenkins]

RJ played his best ball with Jason Kidd. I'm sure he'd go back to being a respectable NBA player with Nash sending the rock his way in positions to score constantly.

You actually have a point - however...

What do you do w/ Nash after next year when TD is gone? Nash isn't the answer. The answer is a PG like Nash who is pass 1st and shoot 2nd.

I say trade TP AND RJ (there simply shouldn't be a trade TP option w/o trading RJ - the only reason to trade TP IS to get rid of RJ) to New York for Chancey Billups. A 3rd team might have to get involved, like Detroit or Dallas to pick up RJ.

Trading TP w/o trading RJ for another PG makes no sense.

[Russo21]

To me it doesn't really matter what happens after TD is gone. It is really hard to win championships, realistically it could take generations to get back on top. Like i said, all out to win 1 more championship next year, after TD and Nash retire together, then rebuild. Nash isn't the answer for the future, just could be the answer for one more title run with Timmeh next season.

Hey i'd love to trade RJ and know that we'd have to include Tony to deal him, but so far this offseason nobody wants anything to do with RJ even with Tony involved in the deal unfortunately. I just think if worse comes to worse and we are stuck with RJ yet again, Steve Nash is the man to get him back on track and revitalize tim at the same time:-) Kindof a plan B you know.

But here's to hoping they can swing some sort of deal to get RJ out of town.

[Mel_13]

4 more days..

[tdunk21]

4 more days..

for what?

[Mel_13]

for what?

The lockout begins and no trades will be possible until after a new CBA is signed.

[Bruno]

It's doubtful a trade will happen before the lockout. Teams don't do trades between the draft and the July moratorium. There is less than one trade per year during that period. This year could be different because of the lockout but I won't bet the farm on it.

[ace3g]

I've heard Biedrins name be mentioned a few times, here is a trade the rockets offered for him; and in terms of what pieces are reasonable to ask for him; if the Spurs went that route.

Rockets Want Biedrins, Offer Hill and Thabeet


I’ve been told the Rockets have offered Hasheem Thabeet and Jordan Hill. Haven’t confirmed if they were offered as a package, but the figures add up. Thabeet, a former No. 2 overall pick, is widely regarded as someone who simply not good enough to play in the NBA and probably won’t be. There is still some hope for Jordan Hill, but he’s got a Post-It note on his back that says “stiff.”



http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2011/06/25/warriors-arent-just-giving-away-biedrins/

[spurs10]

It's doubtful a trade will happen before the lockout. Teams don't do trades between the draft and the July moratorium. There is less than one trade per year during that period. This year could be different because of the lockout but I won't bet the farm on it.
While you seem to be the voice of reason on this issue, I wonder if Pop and RC's apparent enthusiam in doing a trade for someone to help Tim might hasten things along. Guess we'll know by Thursday.
After that, and the CBA is resolved, how do you see it panning out trade wise as far as a timeline. You certainly want to start training camp with a plan.
I guess we all can dream, but some of the scenarios that TD21 was talking about make a lot of sense and would make my summer more worry free.
:flag:

[Bruno]

While you seem to be the voice of reason on this issue, I wonder if Pop and RC's apparent enthusiam in doing a trade for someone to help Tim might hasten things along. Guess we'll know by Thursday.
After that, and the CBA is resolved, how do you see it panning out trade wise as far as a timeline. You certainly want to start training camp with a plan.

Spurs will likely be one of the team that will try the most to a trade before the lockout. The main reason is that one of their best trade asset is Dice partially guaranteed contract and this trade asset must be used before July. IMO, a lot of team are waiting the new CBA to make moves and that's why the draft day featured very few trades.

When there will have a new CBA, it will be followed by a trade and signing period before the start of training camps.

[tdunk21]

Spurs will likely be one of the team that will try the most to a trade before the lockout. The main reason is that one of their best trade asset is Dice partially guaranteed contract and this trade asset must be used before July. IMO, a lot of team are waiting the new CBA to make moves and that's why the draft day featured very few trades.

When there will have a new CBA, it will be followed by a trade and signing period before the start of training camps.

so teams can still trade after july 1st when the lockout officially begins?

[Tyrone Jenkins]

To me it doesn't really matter what happens after TD is gone. It is really hard to win championships, realistically it could take generations to get back on top. Like i said, all out to win 1 more championship next year, after TD and Nash retire together, then rebuild. Nash isn't the answer for the future, just could be the answer for one more title run with Timmeh next season.

Hey i'd love to trade RJ and know that we'd have to include Tony to deal him, but so far this offseason nobody wants anything to do with RJ even with Tony involved in the deal unfortunately. I just think if worse comes to worse and we are stuck with RJ yet again, Steve Nash is the man to get him back on track and revitalize tim at the same time:-) Kindof a plan B you know.

But here's to hoping they can swing some sort of deal to get RJ out of town.

Ya know, I'd be interested in someone doing the research (not me, I'm too lazy) to see when the last time any team that had a PF or C that WASN'T drafted in the top 5-10 pics win a championship. Along w/ that, when was the last time a team had any player who wasn't drafted in the top 5 win one. I think back to the Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Spurs...all have players drafted 1 or 2.

Point I'm making, the best way to win a championship is to either draft or trade for a franchise PF or C. PGs, SGs and even elite SFs come and go...you've GOT to have an elite player on the front line to go deep. And sometimes, that isn't even enough (ask the Magic).

[Bruno]

so teams can still trade after july 1st when the lockout officially begins?

No, teams can't do trades or sign players during a lockout. At the end of the lockout, teams will be able to do trades and sign free agents before the start of a new season. For most of the teams, it doesn't make sense to their move now just before the lockout. It is easier to wait the end of a lockout when the new CBA will be known.

[spurs10]

Spurs will likely be one of the team that will try the most to a trade before the lockout. The main reason is that one of their best trade asset is Dice partially guaranteed contract and this trade asset must be used before July. IMO, a lot of team are waiting the new CBA to make moves and that's why the draft day featured very few trades.

When there will have a new CBA, it will be followed by a trade and signing period before the start of training camps.
Thank you. After July 1st do we have to pay Dice his partial guarantee before he retires?

[bluebellmaniac]

Thank you. After July 1st do we have to pay Dice his partial guarantee before he retires?

Before july 1st, Dice is only guaranteed a portion of his salary. After July 1st the entirety of his salary is guaranteed. This is why the FO would want to trade him before July 1st. He loses his trade value after that date (actually Nov 1st, but the NBA could still be in the lockout then and trades can't happen during the lockout.). A team can save a lot of luxury tax $ if they trade for Dice then cut him, thus only owing a portion of his salary.

[wildbill2u]

Hear me out on this idea. With Hill gone, the possibility of trading TP probably disappeared too. I was never crazy about trading him, but hey, no one is untouchable in this business. So what if we got a pretty good PG to replace him for virtually nothing in the way of tearing up the roster or draft choices?

That guy Spanoulis is supposed to be available according to several posted sources. I know there are lots of folks who just don't like his attitude about going back to his home country, but isn't he supposed to be one of the best PGs in Europe?

If so, and we brought him in as TP backup--and he worked out as an NBA talent--this might make it possible to trade TP/RJ or Spanoulis/RJ/Dice for a really good PF by Feb. trade deadline. That way we only carry two PG salaries for half a year.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

There would be only 2 scenarios I can envision for trading TP:

1). It allows the Spurs to rid themselves of RJ and would provide a decent starting PG in his place (like Billups or Bayless or Heinrich) or at least someone w/ somewhat decent decision making and leadership. In other words, no rookies or supposed very good Euros.

2). It somehow brings Dwight Howard to San Antonio.

[Russo21]

I've heard Biedrins name be mentioned a few times, here is a trade the rockets offered for him; and in terms of what pieces are reasonable to ask for him; if the Spurs went that route.

Rockets Want Biedrins, Offer Hill and Thabeet



http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2011/06/25/warriors-arent-just-giving-away-biedrins/

I quite like Biedrins. The Rockets offer of Jordan Hill (5point 4 rebound average) and Hasheem Thabeet (1 point 1 rebound) is piss poor in my oppinion. The Warriors could do much better then that for Biedrins. It definately would be worth a phone call from the spurs front office and see if we have anything the Warriors would like for him. (it's not hard to beat houstons offer)

[spurs10]

Before july 1st, Dice is only guaranteed a portion of his salary. After July 1st the entirety of his salary is guaranteed. This is why the FO would want to trade him before July 1st. He loses his trade value after that date (actually Nov 1st, but the NBA could still be in the lockout then and trades can't happen during the lockout.). A team can save a lot of luxury tax $ if they trade for Dice then cut him, thus only owing a portion of his salary.
:toast

[Bruno]

That guy Spanoulis is supposed to be available according to several posted sources. I know there are lots of folks who just don't like his attitude about going back to his home country, but isn't he supposed to be one of the best PGs in Europe?

If so, and we brought him in as TP backup--and he worked out as an NBA talent--this might make it possible to trade TP/RJ or Spanoulis/RJ/Dice for a really good PF by Feb. trade deadline. That way we only carry two PG salaries for half a year.

Spurs aren't interest in Spanoulis.

[venitian navigator]

One possible trade, before july 1, could be with Toronto as our partner...that's 'cause this trade could involve all their "long term" contracts.
After the Valenciounas choice, maybe they decided to start rebuilding from zero.

Her's the deal :

RJ + Dice contract + Bonner for Bargnani + A. Jhonson + Kleiza

[Mr. Body]

Maybe we can sucker Toronto into taking Spanoulis. But they only seem to draft tall, skinny pale Euro-crackers.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs would be wise to see about getting Anderson from Orlando. Poss sending RJ to Orlando for Anderson and one of their bad contracts Turk, Nelson, Gil ect....

As much as I want R.J gone, I'd keep him over Turkoglu, Nelson or Arenas.

[DPG21920]

As long as you don't move one of the big 3 to get rid of RJ, I don't care who we take back.

[TD 21]

Biedrins makes no sense, both financially and fit wise. Splitter is a similar player, only he's significantly cheaper, more skilled and has a higher upside. And if you've listened to Buford and to a lesser extent Pop, they've made it clear they view Duncan/Splitter as their C's and are focused on replacing McDyess, with a PF who can shoot.

That's why I keep bringing up Thomas, because in addition to his contract being digestible -- if the Spurs can offload Jefferson -- and him being probably attainable for what the Spurs have to offer, he's not a massive liability in any of these three areas: shooting, defending, rebounding. The same can't be said for Splitter, Blair or Bonner.

Two minor trades the Spurs could make using McDyess' contract if they fail to acquire a starting PF . . .

1) McDyess for Dooling. The Bucks have Jennings, Udrih and Livingston at PG. The Spurs could pay the $500, 000 difference in guaranteed salary. Dooling is similar to Hill, in that he's a combo guard, who can defend, is an okay three-point shooter and he's Spurs material. Serviceable backup, with only one year left on his contract. I'd prefer him to Watson.

2) McDyess for Tolliver. Same general reasoning. The Wolves are overloaded with bigs/shooting fours and Kahn recently talked about giving players who there's no longer room for a chance to play elsewhere, like they did with Flynn. The Spurs could pay the 500, 000 difference in guaranteed salary. I like this one less, because Tolliver is not starting material, but he would fill the need for a fifth big/additional shooting four and he only has one year left on his contract.

[jesterbobman]

I think that it'd be worth it to get Ryan Anderson. We know from the lineup numbers that the Spurs have been an offensive juggernaut with Matt Bonner. I'd guess that that's related to having that type of player on the court(Big with a good outside shot), rather than anything magical about Bonner. If we got the same sorts of results, with a slight decrease in offensive efficiency(40% 3pt shooting instead of 48%), but an increase in rebounding %, that lineup could dominate.

Would the Magic give up Anderson and Duhon for Dyess. We dominate the skill/talent stakes by getting Anderson, but the Magic are into the tax, paying Duhon 3.5 million for the next 3 years and he was their 3rd PG, and terrible last year. Though, quite a bit to take on as dead weight with Duhon.

[GSH]

I thought Duhon was going to be the bargain of the offseason, last year. He's a competent distributor of the ball, and I was expecting maybe $5.2M for two years. Then the Magic gave him $14M+ for four years. Now he's no bargain, and I don't trust him for three more guaranteed years.

[Mel_13]

Two minor trades the Spurs could make using McDyess' contract if they fail to acquire a starting PF . . .

1) McDyess for Dooling. The Bucks have Jennings, Udrih and Livingston at PG. The Spurs could pay the $500, 000 difference in guaranteed salary. Dooling is similar to Hill, in that he's a combo guard, who can defend, is an okay three-point shooter and he's Spurs material. Serviceable backup, with only one year left on his contract. I'd prefer him to Watson.

2) McDyess for Tolliver. Same general reasoning. The Wolves are overloaded with bigs/shooting fours and Kahn recently talked about giving players who there's no longer room for a chance to play elsewhere, like they did with Flynn. The Spurs could pay the 500, 000 difference in guaranteed salary. I like this one less, because Tolliver is not starting material, but he would fill the need for a fifth big/additional shooting four and he only has one year left on his contract.

The first trade doesn't work technically since the Bucks are also over the cap, but that's not really the point. I think you're missing something in the consequences of taking on Dice's contract.

In both cases you're sending Dice's contract and 500K for a player making around 2M with just one year left on the contract. The other team still will have to pay the remaining 2.1m to pay off Dice.

The net result is that they're paying 2M to not have the player when they could have kept the player for same 2M. There's no reason for either team to make that trade.

[TD 21]

The first trade doesn't work technically since the Bucks are also over the cap, but that's not really the point. I think you're missing something in the consequences of taking on Dice's contract.

In both cases you're sending Dice's contract and 500K for a player making around 2M with just one year left on the contract. The other team still will have to pay the remaining 2.1m to pay off Dice.

The net result is that they're paying 2M to not have the player when they could have kept the player for same 2M. There's no reason for either team to make that trade.

Yeah, I forgot the total value and was only thinking about the guaranteed part. Ilyasova, Dooling and Brockman for McDyess and Blair works. But the Spurs would have to really be down on Blair to make this trade. I wouldn't do it.

The reason both teams would do those trades I proposed is they'd give a player a chance to play elsewhere, which is always intelligent. You don't want to get a reputation as a place that hordes players just for the sake of it. Neither team has a use for those guys anymore and they'll just rot on the bench and not be re-signed anyway.

[Russo21]

One possible trade, before july 1, could be with Toronto as our partner...that's 'cause this trade could involve all their "long term" contracts.
After the Valenciounas choice, maybe they decided to start rebuilding from zero.

Her's the deal :

RJ + Dice contract + Bonner for Bargnani + A. Jhonson + Kleiza

Yeah that would be nice i reckon. I've thought of the exact same deal.

Bargnani- Really good offensive player at 21ppg, young and can spread the floor lol. Last year averaged 5.2 rebounds and 0.7 blocks. Shithouse for a guy of his size playing his minutes. We dont really need help offensively. And from what i know about him, he is totally ratshit at defense so he might not help us that much. So pass. But that being said. I'd take him over Bonner any day.

Johnson- I like his game. 10pts 6reb 1 block 1 steal type of guy. 4 fouls per game in just 25 minutes. So he seems like a guy that could be pushed around a little bit being just 210lbs. Not to bad really. I'd take him over Bonner and Blair and lock him in the weight room all summer.

Kleiza- Same production as RJ at about half the price. 11pts 4reb 30 odd % from three. Not great but i'd take him over RJ as he is far younger and far cheaper and if i remember correctly, probably marginally better then RJ defensively.

So to sum up. Our offense probably gets better. But i dont know if our rebounding, interior defense or wing defense would improve which are our main concerns.

So although it wouldnt really improve us that much, i'd do it just for the sake of Bonner and RJ getting the hell out of San Antonio:toast

[DesignatedT]

No idea why Toronto would agree to that.

[CGD]

Before july 1st, Dice is only guaranteed a portion of his salary. After July 1st the entirety of his salary is guaranteed. This is why the FO would want to trade him before July 1st. He loses his trade value after that date (actually Nov 1st, but the NBA could still be in the lockout then and trades can't happen during the lockout.). A team can save a lot of luxury tax $ if they trade for Dice then cut him, thus only owing a portion of his salary.

I'm thinking that the Spurs are going to keep the saving for themselves...

[CGD]

Kaman for Dice+RJ+pick. Before dismissing it read this: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/22/sports/la-sp-clippers-20110623.

Two things stand out:

(1) Clippers are looking for a veteran SF. Consider that Iggy's deal is for the same length as RJ's and for significantly more each year. Not saying RJ is better than Iggy, just a cheaper SF vet option (about 5M/year cheaper). I'm not convinced Iggy is worth the premium... for most of his career he's been the leading scorer on a crap team.

(2) Kaman is coming off an injury, and at least one team (Sixers) raised that as a concern in a recent trade proposal. Notwithstanding his expiring contract, the Clippers have a glut of front court players and other teams know that the Clippers are eager trying to move the increasingly disfavored Kaman. In any event, the failed trade involving Kaman for Iggy discussed in the article I think gives some insight on Kaman's value.

[cdcast]

There's not alot of good players in Dice's price range, even if they package him with Blair, there's very few options out there for a Dice trade. For example:

The Suns have Mikael Peatrus' expiring contract, the Suns would save a couple mil in the deal and the Spurs could then use Peatrus' expiring for another trade later on.

The Hornets have Jarett Jack, he's making $5 mil this season and next. Would the Hornets trade Paul's BFF and would the Spurs want a $5 mil backup PG? I think not.

Look for the Spurs to let Dice's contract expire this week and get rid of RJ with the amnesty clause in the new CBA. As good as it's gonna get.

[DesignatedT]

Any chance either NJ or SA would consider a RJ/Outlaw type of swap? I'm not even sure the Spurs would be interested in this but it could definitely match up.

[ace3g]

I've always been intrigued by acquiring Outlaw because he is a 6'9 SF.

Others have mentioned but realistic trades that could happen involving RJ are for either Outlaw or Josh Childress.

[bluebellmaniac]

Look for the Spurs to ... get rid of RJ with the amnesty clause in the new CBA. As good as it's gonna get.

We are a small market team and I doubt that even with an amnesty clause, we'd cut RJ. With an amnesty clause we'd still have to pay him out the next 3 years ($30M) and I don't see this team shelling out money like that. An amnesty clause would just exempt that salary from being computed into the luxury tax. It's made for teams like Dallas, LA, Miami, etc that don't want to pay the tax, but can afford to pay out the contract.

It would be like when Dallas released Finley and we picked him up for cheap, because he was already being paid by Cuban. Same would happen with RJ... probably Cuban would pick him up and we'd have payback.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ofzotg

[DesignatedT]

What about PHX wanting to get rid of Pietrus? Any chance of that?

[TimmehC]

What about PHX wanting to get rid of Pietrus? Any chance of that?

One would think they'd take a straight-up trade for Dice's unguaranteed contract. But, then the Spurs would have too many SF's unless they can somehow dump RJ.

[Duncan2177]

Jefferson+Dice for Camby it works

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3wyk2at

[tdunk21]

Jefferson+Dice for Camby it works

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3wyk2at

blazers are kinda set at SF position with wallace and batum...imo they would not trade for another SF in RJ

[Duncan2177]

blazers are kinda set at SF position with wallace and batum...imo they would not trade for another SF in RJ

Or Bonner+Dice for Varejao


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5wshqab

[DesignatedT]

Gotta find a team who has a need for a SF. Right now, Clippers and Cavs. Holding them back is they probably want to make a run at a free agent SF before taking on RJ's hefty contract. Still seem like the most likely suitors though.

[cdcast]

[QUOTE=TimmehC;5328748]One would think they'd take a straight-up trade for Dice's unguaranteed contract. But, then the Spurs would have too many SF's unless they can somehow dump RJ.[/QUOT

The main reason to trade for Pietrus would be his expiring contract. The Spurs could then package him in a RJ or TP trade.

An RJ/Blair/picks trade isn't very attractive but throw in Pietrus' $5.3 mil expiring contract, maybe a team will bite but then again they probably would still say no. Pietrus would give the Spurs another trade piece regardless.

[Spurtacus]

RJ salary

2011: 9,282,000
2012: 10,164,000
2013: 11,046,000 *player option*
2014: UFA

fyi

[TeKu]

Ah just admit the run is done and blow it all up...

Send Manu & RJ to Chicago for Deng/Brewer/Gibson + Mirotic & 1st rounder. Manu has to go to a contender and on the Bulls would hopefully see them continually pound Miami out East.

Send TP & Blair to G-State in a 3-way trade with the 76ers that sees Monta land in Philly and Williams/Nocioni/Klay Thompson & 2 1st rounders come to the Spurs.

Leaves Timmy (just no way we can ever trade him) to mentor a bunch of decent youngsters while Bonner/Nocionis contracts expire in yr 2 and we play the lottery/capspace game.

Williams/Thompson
Neal/Thompson/Brewer
Deng/Leonard/Brewer
Taj/Timmy/Bonner
Splitter/Timmy

+ picks & stashed Euros

Clearly has zero chance of happening right now but at the end of next season...?

[CGD]

RJ salary

2011: 9,282,000
2012: 10,164,000
2013: 11,046,000 *player option*
2014: UFA

fyi

For the sake of comparison, Iguodala, for the same # of years, will earn:

2011-12: $13,531,750
2012-13: $14,718,250
2013-14: $15,904,750 *ETO*
2014-15: UFA

The Clips, who are actively looking for a SF vet, were offering a package centered around Kaman (an expiring contract mind you) for a player slated to earn MORE money per year over the same term. It was Philly, not the Clips, that balked.

Now is Iggy 4-5M "better" than RJ? We can debate that, but I will note this: Iggy was the best scorer on a crap team for a LONG time. My sense is that he'd only be marginally better than RJ in the Spurs system. Put differently, given the right system RJ could be a good (and cheaper) fit on the Clips.

As for Kaman, if he can regain his confidence post injury he would be a solid fit for the Spurs. If he doesn't pan out, well he's off the books in a year anyway (at the same time as TD)... Oh, and by moving RJ you can make a compelling case to a free agent SF (I like Prince) that if he signs with the Spurs the SF position is essential his for the taking...

[lmbebo]

For the sake of comparison, Iguodala, for the same # of years, will earn:

2011-12: $13,531,750
2012-13: $14,718,250
2013-14: $15,904,750 *ETO*
2014-15: UFA

The Clips, who are actively looking for a SF vet, were offering a package centered around Kaman (an expiring contract mind you) for a player slated to earn MORE money per year over the same term. It was Philly, not the Clips, that balked.

Now is Iggy 4-5M "better" than RJ? We can debate that, but I will note this: Iggy was the best scorer on a crap team for a LONG time. My sense is that he'd only be marginally better than RJ in the Spurs system. Put differently, given the right system RJ could be a good (and cheaper) fit on the Clips.

As for Kaman, if he can regain his confidence post injury he would be a solid fit for the Spurs. If he doesn't pan out, well he's off the books in a year anyway (at the same time as TD)... Oh, and by moving RJ you can make a compelling case to a free agent SF (I like Prince) that if he signs with the Spurs the SF position is essential his for the taking...


sounds decent

It would have to be Bonner and Rj for kaman to work.

[DesignatedT]

Jefferson/Bonner for Kaman would be fucking fantastic.

[DesignatedT]

What if LAC wanted RJ and Splitter for Kaman. Would anyone be willing to do that?

[ElNono]

As for Kaman, if he can regain his confidence post injury he would be a solid fit for the Spurs.

Heck, if it's RJ/Bonner we would be unloading, I don't care if he can't play even one game, tbh

[elemento]

What if LAC wanted RJ and Splitter for Kaman. Would anyone be willing to do that?

I would not.

But I would do - Jefferson + Blair for Kaman even if we have to take Gomes contract back.

I actually discussed this trade with some Clippers fans. Some hate the idea of Jefferson, but some actually think it's a decent trade. They add just 10m in salaries overall, fill a need (SF) and get rid of a bad player and get a cheap backup for Blake Griffin.

[CGD]

RJ+Dice would work, and the Clips would even save a small amount of cash this year (about half a million) assuming they cut Dice. Still may not be enough... maybe a pick in next year's deep draft? That said, Kaman is damaged goods in his own right.

It's not ideal bc we'd deplete our front line, but push came to shove I'd offer Blair over Splitter. I love Blairs heart, but since he can't shoot the much taller Splitter makes him redundant (at the very least) in the Spurs' system.

[CGD]

On a separate note: How would folks assess Neal's trade value? Can't imagine his value would get much higher than it is now.

[admiralsnackbar]

On a separate note: How would folks assess Neal's trade value? Can't imagine his value would get much higher than it is now.

He's performing beyond expectations on a small contract and we just traded away Hill, which would mean we have little reason to want to part with Neal, I'd say.

[bluebellmaniac]

On a separate note: How would folks assess Neal's trade value? Can't imagine his value would get much higher than it is now.

I would think Neal has lots of upside still. He hasn't played that many minutes for us really and he is still enormously cheap.

Why would we want to shop him? Who has better upside for the price out there?

Trade ideas? I can't think of a player in his price range that has better upside that anyone would want to give us. Are you thinking of shopping him for a vet backup PG or a C?

[cdcast]

Why would the Clippers trade Kaman's expiring contract for 3 years of RJ?

[tdunk21]

Why would the Clippers trade Kaman's expiring contract for 3 years of RJ?

clippers are desperately looking for a veteran starting SF

[cdcast]

clippers are desperately looking for a veteran starting SF

They can find way better options for Kaman's expiring contract. Too bad Isiah's not the Clippers GM.

The Spurs would have to take back another really bad contract in any RJ trade, not an expiring contract.

[CGD]

I would think Neal has lots of upside still. He hasn't played that many minutes for us really and he is still enormously cheap.

Why would we want to shop him? Who has better upside for the price out there?

Trade ideas? I can't think of a player in his price range that has better upside that anyone would want to give us. Are you thinking of shopping him for a vet backup PG or a C?


He's performing beyond expectations on a small contract and we just traded away Hill, which would mean we have little reason to want to part with Neal, I'd say.

I agree that he's the type of contract that the Spurs want right now. I'm just curious about the impact of including his ridiculously cheap deal in a package to move RJ.

If you tell me that, for next year, 9.2M only buys me RJ, but that if can pony up just under 800K more you'll also throw in Neal, I start thinking about 10M in a different way. My question is how much of that 10M value would you attribute to Neal? 1.5M, 2M, 2.5m, more? Keep in mind that similarly regarded Rookies from Neal's class made about these amounts on the Rookie scale.

If not Neal, same question but with Blair's ridiculously cheap deal? Unclear if Neal is a UFA after the 2011-12 season, but Blair's deal runs for 2 of the 3 years of RJ's deal.

[CGD]

They can find way better options for Kaman's expiring contract. Too bad Isiah's not the Clippers GM.

The Spurs would have to take back another really bad contract in any RJ trade, not an expiring contract.

Clips were going to take on Iggy's contract (same # of years as RJ, AND 4M more per year) from the Sixers, for Kaman's expiring. Sixers, not Clippers, shot that deal down on concerns of Kaman's health.

[cdcast]

:lmao RJ is no Iggy.

It was Iggy's LA based agent that started those Laker/Clippers rumors. He wants Iggy in LA.

:lol the Clipper agreeing to a Kaman-RJ trade.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

God please let this happen

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3vmctck

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

lol this is my real trade idea

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3z4o457

[admiralsnackbar]

I agree that he's the type of contract that the Spurs want right now. I'm just curious about the impact of including his ridiculously cheap deal in a package to move RJ.

If you tell me that, for next year, 9.2M only buys me RJ, but that if can pony up just under 800K more you'll also throw in Neal, I start thinking about 10M in a different way. My question is how much of that 10M value would you attribute to Neal? 1.5M, 2M, 2.5m, more? Keep in mind that similarly regarded Rookies from Neal's class made about these amounts on the Rookie scale.

If not Neal, same question but with Blair's ridiculously cheap deal? Unclear if Neal is a UFA after the 2011-12 season, but Blair's deal runs for 2 of the 3 years of RJ's deal.

Like I said earlier, with Hill gone, I think the Spurs would be more reluctant to move Neal until they could get a healthy season out of Anderson, or could find a third trade partner that could provide an SG able to reasonably fill the void left by Gary. Green certainly couldn't, and nobody knows what Butler is capable of, so I wouldn't count on either to replace Neal.

As for Blair, I think there's a market for him, but it probably isn't as robust and enthusiastic as it was at the end of last season, when his ceiling seemed higher than it does now (to me, at least). His knees and size will always be a question, but there are additional issues like his decision-making, inconsistency from game to game, and difficulty finishing that seem more pronounced now... so I don't know where I would say his stock value was.

[Russo21]

At this point in time i'd just be happy for a change of scenery at SF for us. Just a minor tweak with a trade for RJ for any other SF with a similar contract. No star, just a role player. Unfortunately for us and RJ he came to san antonio with such high expectations, so it might be good to lower our expectations with someone else.

Boris Diaw- 6'8" 235 11pts 5 reb 4 ast 35% 3PTFG much more defensive potential then RJ. 9 million dollar contract compared to RJ's 8.4 million dollar contract. Solid strong all round SF.

Travis Outlaw- 6'9' 207 9pts 4reb career 34% 3PTFG. Nothing impressive but longer with more defensive potential. Jersey may do this to pair Williams with RJ, Derron could bring RJ's swagger back.

Hedo Turkoglu- 6'10" 220lbs. Been there done that. Decent all rounder with massive size for a SF. Good for 14 pts 4reb 4ast 40% 3PFG. Familiar with the system. Surprised we got rid of him after just one year. If it wasnt for Fisher's 0.4 we could have won the title with him here. Bit slow footed but id take him over RJ and orlando might want a change in SF. 2 Million $ more though.

Shawn Marion- Wish we got him when we got RJ. Extremely versatile. Good for 12 pts 7reb and really good defense. 33% 3PTFG for career but that has dipped lately. Great rebounder for SF. Maybe RJ could reunite with JKIDD and be relevant again. We get better rebounding and defense. I don't see a swap with the championship mavs happening though!

Lakers- RJ for Artest straight up. D improves dramatically and so does the crazy!

Minnestoa- Wolves have a bit of cap room. Martell Webster for RJ straight up? Defense doesnt really improve but damn he can shoot. Just 4.8 million compared to RJ's 8.4 million. Lesson the load on Holt's bank account.

New Orelans- RJ for Ariza straight up. Longer, younger, quicker on defense and cheaper. OK 3 point shooter, great stealer and better defender all around. Chris Paul can get RJ into gear in new orleans no worries.

Anyways. Just a few simple, straight up RJ trade partners. Exept for Webster they all earn similar $ to Jefferson so they'd be simple swaps. I'd take any of the aforementioned guys ahead of that douchebag:)

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

At this point in time i'd just be happy for a change of scenery at SF for us. Just a minor tweak with a trade for RJ for any other SF with a similar contract. No star, just a role player. Unfortunately for us and RJ he came to san antonio with such high expectations, so it might be good to lower our expectations with someone else.

Boris Diaw- 6'8" 235 11pts 5 reb 4 ast 35% 3PTFG much more defensive potential then RJ. 9 million dollar contract compared to RJ's 8.4 million dollar contract. Solid strong all round SF.

Travis Outlaw- 6'9' 207 9pts 4reb career 34% 3PTFG. Nothing impressive but longer with more defensive potential. Jersey may do this to pair Williams with RJ, Derron could bring RJ's swagger back.

Hedo Turkoglu- 6'10" 220lbs. Been there done that. Decent all rounder with massive size for a SF. Good for 14 pts 4reb 4ast 40% 3PFG. Familiar with the system. Surprised we got rid of him after just one year. If it wasnt for Fisher's 0.4 we could have won the title with him here. Bit slow footed but id take him over RJ and orlando might want a change in SF. 2 Million $ more though.

Shawn Marion- Wish we got him when we got RJ. Extremely versatile. Good for 12 pts 7reb and really good defense. 33% 3PTFG for career but that has dipped lately. Great rebounder for SF. Maybe RJ could reunite with JKIDD and be relevant again. We get better rebounding and defense. I don't see a swap with the championship mavs happening though!

Lakers- RJ for Artest straight up. D improves dramatically and so does the crazy!

Minnestoa- Wolves have a bit of cap room. Martell Webster for RJ straight up? Defense doesnt really improve but damn he can shoot. Just 4.8 million compared to RJ's 8.4 million. Lesson the load on Holt's bank account.

New Orelans- RJ for Ariza straight up. Longer, younger, quicker on defense and cheaper. OK 3 point shooter, great stealer and better defender all around. Chris Paul can get RJ into gear in new orleans no worries.

Anyways. Just a few simple, straight up RJ trade partners. Exept for Webster they all earn similar $ to Jefferson so they'd be simple swaps. I'd take any of the aforementioned guys ahead of that douchebag:)

really like the diaw trade but since he is an expiring contract and with there current trade to get maggette. they have no reason to trade for RJ.

really like the ariza trade but we would have to take another scrub SF or scrub Center to make the trade happen. unless we try and trade for jack by a throwing in blair.

[BackHome]

Question is for some unknown reason that we miss a whole year of basketball how would this impact the 2012 draft? Would all teams just follow the same draft order the year prior?

[EmantheSpursFan]

Pipe Dream...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3omtvc8

With Minisota taking Derrick Williams, Anthony Randolf seems pretty redundant.

Tony, Ridnour
Manu, Anderson
Webster, Leonard
Anthony, Bonner
Tim, Tiago

throw in some Free agents = championship

[UnWantedTheory]

Clips were going to take on Iggy's contract (same # of years as RJ, AND 4M more per year) from the Sixers, for Kaman's expiring. Sixers, not Clippers, shot that deal down on concerns of Kaman's health.
Iggy is also younger & better.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=44mjjhc

[ace3g]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
Just filed to ESPN.com: Cavaliers and Kings in advanced discussions on a J.J. Hickson-for-Omri Casspi deal. Link on the way
http://es.pn/k3RGQ6

SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Kings finalizing trade sending F Omri Casspi and first-round pick to Cavs for F J.J. Hickson, sources tell Yahoo! Sports

[Bruno]

It's nice to see some move. Hopefully Spurs can do something with Dice contract today.

[DesignatedT]

I dont like that deal for Cleveland.

[Mel_13]

Wonder if Clev would be willing to part with Hickson now that they drafted Thompson.


Yes, but not for RJ.

[MaNu4Tres]

No chance Spurs deal with Cleveland now.

[jjktkk]

Yes, but not for RJ.

Hickson just got traded to Sac.

http://my.si.com/4Z0d68

[ace3g]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
Closest thing to good news heard today: Cavs still very open to making another trade before midnight using their $14.6M trade exception

[DesignatedT]

Yeah. the Cavs trade exception will expire during lockout so they want to use it tonight. Give them fucking RJ.

[admiralsnackbar]

Yeah. the Cavs trade exception will expire during lockout so they want to use it tonight. Give them fucking RJ.
God I wish that would happen.

[Spurtacus]

Rudy Gay to the Cavs? Gives Memphis room to resign Gasol and Battier.

[Vic Petro]

I think a healthy Rudy Gay makes Battier moot. Even with new eventual lockout rules I bet they'll be able to afford re-signing Gasol without having to dump Gay.

[Spurtacus]

I think a healthy Rudy Gay makes Battier moot. Even with new eventual lockout rules I bet they'll be able to afford re-signing Gasol without having to dump Gay.

Battier/Allen at SF is more beneficial to the team then Rudy Gay.

[dbestpro]

What ever the final numbers become, free agents will be faced with the same low available revenues from team to team.

[spurs10]

God I wish that would happen.
:toast

[Tyrone Jenkins]

In the trading of RJ, you gotta look at which teams need a scoring SF. There are a few. Clippers, Washington Wizards (but they just drafted Chris Singleton), 76ers (who are looking to get rid of Iguodala), Atlanta Hawks or perhaps even the Pistons (who probably won't bring back Prince) or the Lakers.

The next question is of those teams, which ones have parts that they no longer want. Clippers are looking to get rid of Chris Kaman, 76ers of Iguodala and Pistons of Prince. I'm sure there are more...

Lastly, we need to look at how the trade (or sign and trades if applicable) will affect both teams' salary caps. I think the Clippers would be the most willing: something like RJ and 2012 1st round pick and some cash for CK.

But just blindly stating "Trade Richard Jefferson" makes about as much sense as saying "End the lockout."

[admiralsnackbar]

In the trading of RJ, you gotta look at which teams need a scoring SF. There are a few. Clippers, Washington Wizards (but they just drafted Chris Singleton), 76ers (who are looking to get rid of Iguodala), Atlanta Hawks or perhaps even the Pistons (who probably won't bring back Prince) or the Lakers.

The next question is of those teams, which ones have parts that they no longer want. Clippers are looking to get rid of Chris Kaman, 76ers of Iguodala and Pistons of Prince. I'm sure there are more...

Lastly, we need to look at how the trade (or sign and trades if applicable) will affect both teams' salary caps. I think the Clippers would be the most willing: something like RJ and 2012 1st round pick and some cash for CK.

But just blindly stating "Trade Richard Jefferson" makes about as much sense as saying "End the lockout."

Another didactic post.

You do realize that sometimes people just want to express their displeasure with a player without having to articulate a trade scenario that won't happen, however exhaustively reasoned it may be, don't you? But then, by the same token, maybe some people just need to express their sense of superiority, considering you didn't actually put forth any concrete idea yourself.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Another didactic post.

You do realize that sometimes people just want to express their displeasure with a player without having to articulate a trade scenario that won't happen, however exhaustively reasoned it may be, don't you? But then, by the same token, maybe some people just need to express their sense of superiority, considering you didn't actually put forth any concrete idea yourself.

My concrete idea is articulated in a different thread. Didn't see the need to garbage up Spurs Talk everywhere...

But I get your point - and a pretty good one at that. Some posts must be for "entertainment purposes only" and are not really designed for discussion.

But then, what exactly is a blog spot for if not discussion?

[bluebellmaniac]

I miss the good ol days when Isiah Thomas and the Knicks were more than happy to take a bad contract off our hands... sigh!

[Vic Petro]

@STEIN_LINE_HQ PS: Word is Knicks/Spurs still hot for Casspi and checked in to see if they could wedge their way into last trade fun of 2010-11. But ...
6 minutes ago via UberSocial for BlackBerry


@STEIN_LINE_HQ Cavs told 'em they traded for Casspi with intent to keep him. GM Chris Grant says Cavs have liked Casspi since Kings drafted him in 2009
4 minutes ago via UberSocial for BlackBerry

[Spurs da champs]

I would like to see the spurs do a sign and trade for JR Smith and use MLE money if we still can in the next CBA for a big or two.

Use Anderson and Dice's contract to get Smith. Spurs need a young vet who can do what he does and allow Manu to come off the bench.

Love to see Blair sent to Sac for Thompson,

Parker, Smith, Kawhi, TD, Thompson first unit looks nice.

Manu, Neal, RJ, Splitter, Bonner second unit strong as well.

I dont think the Spurs are done shaking things up.

Thompson is no center. As long as Tim is still playing with us he'll always be our center. Thompson is overrated imo.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

TP, Splitter and McDyess to Atlanta for Al Horford and Kirk Heinrich (that should be its own thread)...

[mountainballer]

looking out for possible trades Utha seems to be an interesting option.
(I don't re start the old Tony for Harrison rumor)
Jazz have a dilemma. they pay big bucks to three bigs (Jefferson, Okur, Millsap make 33 million combined), but now have two young #3 picks in Favors and Kanter, who are the cornerstones of their future.
Jazz might be one of the few teams that could be an option for a RJ trade. (if they don't re sign AK). deal could be RJ+Blair for Millsap. the intriguing point for the Jazz could be, that they replace Millsap by a very cheap contract, while RJ brings back similar production like AK.
might take some more teaser from the Spurs to compensate for the financial disadvantage for the Jazz. (take back Raja Bell as well?)

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

I don't see the Spurs getting rid of Blair. Couldn't we do RJ & Bonner for Millsap and someone else?

[mountainballer]

we could. Jazz wouldn't.

[Bruno]

If there is a good offer for Blair, I don't think Spurs will hesitate a single second to trade him. His questionable work ethic combine with a lack of improvement, especially defensively, put him in the trade asset category.

[MaNu4Tres]

If there is a good offer for Blair, I don't think Spurs will hesitate a single second to trade him. His questionable work ethic combine with a lack of improvement, especially defensively, put him in the trade asset category.

With the acquisition of J.J Hickson, I wonder if the Kings view Jason Thompson as somewhat more expendable now. Especially considering the fact that he's entering the last year of his rookie contract. ( I doubt they plan on paying him 4-5 million per w/ Hickson on the team now).

I'd really like to see if Spurs can get him for Blair/Green or Blair/Butler. He has the skills and size to be the starting power forward that Pop has been looking for. He has great size and developed a confident toughness in the paint the 2nd half of last season--which is something the Spurs desperately need outside of Splitter and Duncan. Not to mention, he has a nice mid-range pick and pop game as well.

[admiralsnackbar]

They just traded a pretty good piece for Thompson, so I don't see why the Kings would then trade a solid center who could average a double double for an under-sized PF to sit behind Hickson. They might lose him as an FA, but I'd hold on to him until then.

EDIT:
Don't forget Dalembert it off the books.

[TD 21]

With the acquisition of J.J Hickson, I wonder if the Kings view Jason Thompson as somewhat more expendable now. Especially considering the fact that he's entering the last year of his rookie contract. ( I doubt they plan on paying him 4-5 million per w/ Hickson on the team now).

I'd really like to see if Spurs can get him for Blair/Green or Blair/Butler. He has the skills and size to be the starting power forward that Pop has been looking for. He has great size and developed a confident toughness in the paint the 2nd half of last season--which is something the Spurs desperately need outside of Splitter and Duncan. Not to mention, he has a nice mid-range pick and pop game as well.

I'd be surprised. The move was all about balance. They were overloaded at the three (Salmons/Garcia/Greene/Honeycutt) and thin at the four/five (Cousins/Thompson/Jackson/Whiteside). Even with Hickson, they still only have three rotation caliber bigs under contract and they currently have the second least amount of salary committed for next season. Whether the Maloofs are lying about being willing to spend or not, paying say $5 million annually to Thompson isn't going to hamstring them.

So I don't see the incentive for the Kings to make that trade. They'd go from 6-11 with a jumper to 6-7 without a jumper, just so they could hold off a year on giving a significant raise to their third big? Blair is likely to make in the range of Thompson anyway and it's not like either is likely to break the bank. If they did it, it would be more player preference related than financial.

I also don't see Thompson as a great fit next to Duncan, because of his mediocre athleticism/mobility. He doesn't fit with getting better defensively, which is supposedly the Spurs goal.

[MaNu4Tres]

So I don't see the incentive for the Kings to make that trade. They'd go from 6-11 with a jumper to 6-7 without a jumper, just so they could hold off a year on giving a significant raise to their third big? Blair is likely to make in the range of Thompson anyway and it's not like either is likely to break the bank. If they did it, it would be more player preference related than financial.

I also don't see Thompson as a great fit next to Duncan, because of his mediocre athleticism/mobility. He doesn't fit with getting better defensively, which is supposedly the Spurs goal.

I see an incentive for the Kings if Spurs throw their first next year. They'd receive a big in Blair that's perfect for the 15-20 minutes that will be available at the back up PF spot and at the same time receive a first rounder for next season (which is valuable if they intend to not re-up Thompson--which could be a reality with them trading for Hickson). Not saying it's highly likely, but it's an idea I'd flirt with if I'm the Spurs.

And I actually think Thompson would be a good fit next to TD and Splitter, he doesn't have your implied Amare-like athleticism/mobility but how many quality bigs in the NBA have that type of athleticism? (Less than a handful)

One thing I do know for sure, he definitely would be the Spurs' most mobile and versatile big on the roster. Factor in his great size and his ability to knock down the 12-18 footer and I believe he'd be a great fit with the Spurs.

All in all, attaining a high quality big with elite athleticism to start at the four next year is pretty much impossible. Therefore, the Spurs have to compromise on the desired targets to some degree (which I'm sure they're aware of). That being said, Thompson is one of the few quality/versatile PF's out there that could be attainable for a reasonable trading price. Spurs would be wise to look into the scenario. IMO

[TD 21]

I see an incentive for the Kings if Spurs throw their first next year. They'd receive a big in Blair that's perfect for the 15-20 minutes that will be available at the back up PF spot and at the same time receive a first rounder for next season. Not saying it's highly likely, but it's an idea I'd flirt with if I'm the Spurs.

And I actually think Thompson would be a good fit next to TD and Splitter, he doesn't have your implied Amare-like athleticism/mobility but how many quality bigs in the NBA have that type of athleticism? (Less than a handful)

One thing I do know for sure, he definitely would be the Spurs' most mobile and versatile big on the roster. Factor in his great size and his ability to knock down the 12-18 footer and I believe he'd be a great fit with the Spurs.

All in all, attaining a high quality big with elite athleticism to start at the four next year is pretty much impossible. Therefore, the Spurs have to compromise on the desired targets to some degree (which I'm sure they're aware of). That being said, Thompson is one of the few quality/versatile PF's out there that could be attainable for a reasonable trading price. Spurs would be wise to look into the scenario. IMO

Definitely, if the Spurs throw in their '12 1st, that would more than give the Kings incentive. I wouldn't do it for Thompson, though. I realize the Spurs need a tall big, who can shoot and preferably a young one, who's not overly expensive. Which narrows their options considerably. But Blair had a 17.20 PER last season. Better than Rondo, Marion, M. Gasol and Bogut (though he did play injured), to name a few. Thompson had a 13.59 PER (league average is 15). Sure, it doesn't account for defense, but Thompson is a sub par defender too and he's 3 years older. In other words, Blair is the better player now and has a higher upside. Throw in the 1st and it becomes even more lopsided.

Thompson would be a better compliment to Duncan offensively, but he wouldn't help defensively, which is their supposed goal. It doesn't have to be a big with freakish athleticism, just someone who's at least slightly above league average athletically.

It's not even improbable, much less close to impossible. I'm confident the Spurs have the assets to acquire Thomas if they want to. Is he a "high quality big"? Not quite. But he had an 18.25 PER last season, so he's trending in that direction. And at his age (25 later this year) it's possible there's still upside left, despite him having played five seasons already. He's also the type of athlete/defensive presence that has been lacking next to Duncan.

[MaNu4Tres]

Definitely, if the Spurs throw in their '12 1st, that would more than give the Kings incentive. I wouldn't do it for Thompson, though. I realize the Spurs need a tall big, who can shoot and preferably a young one, who's not overly expensive. Which narrows their options considerably. But Blair had a 17.20 PER last season. Better than Rondo, Marion, M. Gasol and Bogut (though he did play injured), to name a few. Thompson had a 13.59 PER (league average is 15). Sure, it doesn't account for defense, but Thompson is a sub par defender too and he's 3 years older. In other words, Blair is the better player now and has a higher upside. Throw in the 1st and it becomes even more lopsided.

Thompson would be a better compliment to Duncan offensively, but he wouldn't help defensively, which is their supposed goal. It doesn't have to be a big with freakish athleticism, just someone who's at least slightly above league average athletically.

It's not even improbable, much less close to impossible. I'm confident the Spurs have the assets to acquire Thomas if they want to. Is he a "high quality big"? Not quite. But he had an 18.25 PER last season, so he's trending in that direction. And at his age (25 later this year) it's possible there's still upside left, despite him having played five seasons already. He's also the type of athlete/defensive presence that has been lacking next to Duncan.

I wasn't as high on Jason Thompson up until the last 2 months of last season. I watched the Kings quite often (don't ask why) and if you took out the age factor I'd say Thompson was the better prospect than Cousins from the play of the last 5 weeks of the season. He really surprised me on both ends. He totally looked like a different player during this time. (If you didn't watch him during this time, you are cutting this player a little short-- he's underrated.)

As for Thomas, I'd love Tyrus as well. I just don't think Bobcats would want to get rid of their best big on the roster for what the Spurs have to offer.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if theres a center available and 7'0 in size, should take it...we cant do wrong here when we won titles with rasho

[TD 21]

I'd love Tyrus as well, I just don't think Bobcats would want to get rid of their best big on the roster for what the Spurs have to offer.

It's all about money. They're a notoriously cheap organization. They just drafted a similar PF, in Biyombo. Besides Biyombo and Thomas, they have four other PF's (Diaw/White/Cunningham/Najera). So there's quantity, if not quality, at the position. Throw in the fact that their new GM, Cho, talked about potentially having to take one step back to take two steps forward and I could see them being willing to dump Thomas. I'm not saying it won't require value. But the Spurs can give them not only value, but inexpensive value, in Blair. They can give them financial relief, in McDyess. And if that doesn't do it for them, they can throw in one of Butler or Green. With the Bobcats having only Maggette and Cunningham (who's more of a PF) at SF, they could actually use either.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's all about money. They're a notoriously cheap organization. They just drafted a similar PF, in Biyombo. Besides Biyombo and Thomas, they have four other PF's (Diaw/White/Cunningham/Najera). So there's quantity, if not quality, at the position. Throw in the fact that their new GM, Cho, talked about potentially having to take one step back to take two steps forward and I could see them being willing to dump Thomas. I'm not saying it won't require value. But the Spurs can give them not only value, but inexpensive value, in Blair. They can give them financial relief, in McDyess. And if that doesn't do it for them, they can throw in one of Butler or Green. With the Bobcats having only Maggette and Cunningham (who's more of a PF) at SF, they could actually use either.


I wish I was as optimistic as you when I thought of the likelihood of attaining Thomas, but I just don't see it. Bobcats are paper thin at the 5 spot, and I think Biyombo will spend most of his minutes there. At the same time, Diaw is on his way out of town after this year (along with Najera and White), making Thomas the only PF on the books for the 12'-13' season. Even with Thomas, Bobcats are scheduled to be well under the cap this year and next. The only way I see the Bobcats being interested is if Spurs took back Diop's contract and I don't see the Spurs doing that.

[TD 21]

I wish I was as optimistic as you when I thought of the likelihood of attaining Thomas, but I just don't see it. Bobcats are paper thin at the 5 spot, and I think Biyombo will spend most of his minutes there. At the same time, Diaw is on his way out of town after this year (along with Najera and White), making Thomas the only PF on the books for the 12'-13' season. Even with Thomas, Bobcats are scheduled to be well under the cap this year and next. The only way I see the Bobcats being interested is if Spurs took back Diop's contract and I don't see the Spurs doing that.

I wouldn't say I'm optimistic. Even though I think the Spurs have the assets to acquire him, there's the matter of his contract. The only way I could see the Spurs taking it on is if they're able to rid themselves of Jefferson.

You're probably right about Biyombo playing the majority of his minutes at the five though. Diaw and Najera are definitely not in the future plans and White and Cunningham are filler. Like I said, not much quality, but the point is, they're not completely bare either. Plus, they'd be getting back a PF, in Blair.

Under the cap or not, this is a notoriously cheap team. This trade would allow them to save a ton, while getting back a comparable player (in terms of production), who's three years younger.

[mountainballer]

I doubt that the Kings actively try to trade Thompson after the Hickson acquisition. Cousins, Hickson and Thompson are all still pretty unknown commodities, they should try for at least one year how this pans out.
I think this 3 players do compliment each other pretty well on paper (with the exception that none is a top defender), the Kings might have a very good and versatile 3 men big rotation for years to come.

[Bruno]

The Thompson idea is a good one, MaNu4Tres. He was in the doghouse earlier this year when Landry was playing in Sacramento. JJ Hickson arrival could have a similar effect on him.

[mountainballer]

I really wouldn't call it doghouse. don't forget the Kings had Dalembert on the roster as well and Westphal went with the veterans Dalembert-Landry over the young bigs at the beginning of the season. they might have thought Kings are a PO team already (especially after a 3-1 start), till they learned that they are still far from that level.
however, I didn't want to say that Thompson isn't intriguing as a player, I just think the arrival of Hickson doesn't automatically put him on the block. the quality gap between Cousins, Hickson and Thompson and the next best bigs is huge (Jackson, Whiteside), so they will think twice till they make Thompson available.

[MaNu4Tres]

I really wouldn't call it doghouse. don't forget the Kings had Dalembert on the roster as well and Westphal went with the veterans Dalembert-Landry over the young bigs at the beginning of the season. they might have thought Kings are a PO team already (especially after a 3-1 start), till they learned that they are still far from that level.
however, I didn't want to say that Thompson isn't intriguing as a player, I just think the arrival of Hickson doesn't automatically put him on the block. the quality gap between Cousins, Hickson and Thompson and the next best bigs is huge (Jackson, Whiteside), so they will think twice till they make Thompson available.

With his contract about to expire after next year, I'm pretty sure Thompson is more than available for the right price.

A Blair + Butler or Green + Spurs' 12' 1st for Thompson and their 12' 2nd rounder would be a nice move for the Spurs and the Kings IMO.

Spurs could even offer Bonner and next years 1st for Thompson straight up, but I doubt the Spurs would even consider that unfortunately.

[Bruno]

I really wouldn't call it doghouse. don't forget the Kings had Dalembert on the roster as well and Westphal went with the veterans Dalembert-Landry over the young bigs at the beginning of the season. they might have thought Kings are a PO team already (especially after a 3-1 start), till they learned that they are still far from that level.
however, I didn't want to say that Thompson isn't intriguing as a player, I just think the arrival of Hickson doesn't automatically put him on the block. the quality gap between Cousins, Hickson and Thompson and the next best bigs is huge (Jackson, Whiteside), so they will think twice till they make Thompson available.

Doghouse was a little strong but Kings trading for Hickson isn't a good sign. This trade means that Kings don't see Thompson as starting material since their starting frontcourt will be Hickson and Cousins. Thompson could be a key player from the bench like Odom is with the Lakers but I'm not sold on that because Kings interior defense would be then weak.

[Muser]

Thompson would be sweet if the Spurs could get him, happily give up Blair for him.

[DesignatedT]

I'd trade Blair for Thompson in a heartbeat.

[yavozerb]

Doghouse was a little strong but Kings trading for Hickson isn't a good sign. This trade means that Kings don't see Thompson as starting material since their starting frontcourt will be Hickson and Cousins. Thompson could be a key player from the bench like Odom is with the Lakers but I'm not sold on that because Kings interior defense would be then weak.


Thompson would be sweet if the Spurs could get him, happily give up Blair for him.


I'd trade Blair for Thompson in a heartbeat.

I am not so quick to pull the trigger on a thompson trade and I really dont think the spurs would either unless maybe as a last resort. The primary problem is simple, $. Thompson is due to make 3+ mil and then become a FA the following season. I might make this trade only if the Kings want to dump him for mcdyess's contract but not Blair who is only making a 1mil and is under contract for 2 more seasons. Thompson in my mind really has not proven much in the NBA and I believe he would be no more than a reserve anyways. The primary reason the spurs hinted at moving Hill was becasue they did not want to resign him after the following season for big money, how would the Thompson trade be anything different?

[MaNu4Tres]

I am not so quick to pull the trigger on a thompson trade and I really dont think the spurs would either unless maybe as a last resort. The primary problem is simple, $. Thompson is due to make 3+ mil and then become a FA the following season. I might make this trade only if the Kings want to dump him for mcdyess's contract but not Blair who is only making a 1mil and is under contract for 2 more seasons. Thompson in my mind really has not proven much in the NBA and I believe he would be no more than a reserve anyways. The primary reason the spurs hinted at moving Hill was becasue they did not want to resign him after the following season for big money, how would the Thompson trade be anything different?

Simple, it's all about demand and roster balance. Spurs' deepest position was the shooting guard position and still is. That being said, Spurs weren't going to overpay a player at a position where there's significant depth playing for close the minimum already. (Even if they had the money, they wouldn't have kept Hill, it's not smart basketball business with the way the roster is constructed.)

That is not the same scenario for the power forward position, where the Spurs are relatively thin in terms of talent. Spurs have a need for a player like Thompson in the front-court (length-size-skill-set wise), therefore Spurs would have reason to make a trade for him with the intention in giving him a modest extension. IMO

[yavozerb]

Simple, it's all about demand and roster balance. Spurs' deepest position was the shooting guard position and still is. That being said, Spurs weren't going to overpay a player at a position where there's significant depth playing for close the minimum already.

That is not the same scenario for the power forward position, where the Spurs are relatively thin in terms of talent. Spurs have a need for a player like Thompson in the front-court (length-size-skill-set wise), therefore Spurs would have reason to make a trade for him with the intention in giving him a modest extension. IMO

Agree with the need part, but disagree with Thompson being able to fill that need..I have only seen Thomspn play and handfull of times so I will not pretend to know this guy very well, but when I did see him play he looked like a player who preferred to play outside and quite simply did not like ot play inside with the bigs..Like I said, for mcdyess contract, yes, Blair, hell no..

[MaNu4Tres]

Agree with the need part, but disagree with Thompson being able to fill that need..I have only seen Thomspn play and handfull of times so I will not pretend to know this guy very well, but when I did see him play he looked like a player who preferred to play outside and quite simply did not like ot play inside with the bigs..Like I said, for mcdyess contract, yes, Blair, hell no..

I disagree, this Thompson kid is underrated. No he's not a future All-Star or anything like that, but the kid is solid in many phases and showed nice progress finishing strong and competing in the paint at the end of last season. He is very versatile offensively, being able to not only spot up but put the ball on the floor and go the hole and finish strong. He's not a premier defender or anything like that, but he is more than capable on that end of the floor with this length and athleticism. I watched him quite a bit at the end of last season and he impressed me more so than Cousins.

IMO Thompson would fill in a need and would be the Spurs' second best big behind Duncan and ahead of Splitter IMO. You have to remember as well, Spurs don't have attractive trading assets, nor do they have the money to sign a quality free agent big man in free agency. IMO Thompson could be the Spurs' most realistic and best possible PF target to go after this off-season (considering their trading assets and money).

Spurs should go after this kid, even at the expense of Blair.

[MaNu4Tres]

Agree with the need part, but disagree with Thompson being able to fill that need..I have only seen Thomspn play and handfull of times so I will not pretend to know this guy very well, but when I did see him play he looked like a player who preferred to play outside and quite simply did not like ot play inside with the bigs..Like I said, for mcdyess contract, yes, Blair, hell no..

I disagree, this Thompson kid is underrated. No he's not a future All-Star or anything like that, but the kid is solid in many phases and showed nice progress finishing strong and competing in the paint at the end of last season. He is very versatile offensively, being able to not only spot up but put the ball on the floor and go the hole and finish strong. He's not a premier defender or anything like that, but he is more than capable on that end of the floor with this length and athleticism. I watched him quite a bit at the end of last season and he impressed me more so than Cousins.

IMO Thompson would fill in a need and would be the Spurs' second best big behind Duncan and ahead of Splitter IMO. You have to remember as well, Spurs don't have attractive trading assets, nor do they have the money to sign a quality free agent big man in free agency. IMO Thompson could be the Spurs' most realistic and best possible PF target to go after this off-season (considering their trading assets and money).

Spurs should go after this kid, even at the expense of Blair.

I'm not a big highlight guy, but here's a fairly new highlight video of plays from last season:

wQm5N2KtW-s

[tdunk21]

I disagree, this Thompson kid is underrated. No he's not a future All-Star or anything like that, but the kid is solid in many phases and showed nice progress finishing strong and competing in the paint at the end of last season. He is very versatile offensively, being able to not only spot up but put the ball on the floor and go the hole and finish strong. He's not a premier defender or anything like that, but he is more than capable on that end of the floor with this length and athleticism. I watched him quite a bit at the end of last season and he impressed me more so than Cousins.

IMO Thompson would fill in a need and would be the Spurs' second best big behind Duncan and ahead of Splitter IMO. You have to remember as well, Spurs don't have attractive trading assets, nor do they have the money to sign a quality free agent big man in free agency. IMO Thompson could be the Spurs' most realistic and best possible PF target to go after this off-season (considering their trading assets and money).

Spurs should go after this kid, even at the expense of Blair.

I'm not a big highlight guy, but here's a fairly new highlight video of plays from last season:

wQm5N2KtW-s

:toast

[CGD]

I'm convinced on JT... Blair's biggest asset to the Spurs is his cheap contract. Love the heart, but his size is sadly a liability. If he's the cost for a swap for a big like JT then so be it.

[mountainballer]

once more, if there is a chance to get Thompson for let's say Blair plus 2012 1st rounder, it's a no brainer. but I still doubt that he is available. his expiring contract doesn't mean he isn't affordable for the Kings after 2012. he is restricted anyhow. and they could still trade him at deadline, if the rotation of Cousins-Hickson-Thompson doesn't work.

however, I guess we all agree that the Spurs need a PF. (I wrote in the other thread we should go for Landry, but I'm aware that we likely don't have enough money)
Marreese Speights reportedly is available. ok, he isn't starter material yet, so he isn't the solution. just mention him. would we trade Blair for him? (based on size and upside)

another situation we should watch is Toronto and Valanciunas. word is he won't come over this year, but there were also reports that he has his buy out for 2 million Euro in place. so it could happen, if the lock out doesn't last long. and if he goes to Toronto, Amir Johnson might be available.
Spurs once offered Johnson a pretty nice contract that was matched by the Pistons, that was not without a reason. he has improved a lot since then. still limited on offense, but no longer a non factor on offense. in fact pretty efficient in what he does. and he is the type of mobile big defender and shot blocker the Spurs desperately need. he has a long term contract, the Raptors might be willing to dump him for Dice and Blair. good deal for both sides IMO.

[TD 21]

Blair and the '12 1st for Thompson isn't a no brainer. Blair is a significantly more efficient player, is three years younger and has an extra year before he's due a significant raise. Throw in the '12 1st in what's projected to be a very deep draft and that's not a good trade for the Spurs.

Speights has a higher upside than Thompson. The problem with him is he has a reputation for being lazy and defenseless. Thompson is known for being soft, which is the exact opposite of what this team needs. Neither would help with the Spurs stated goal of getting back to being a top 5-7 defensive team.

Johnson is a name I've thought of before. He's similar to Thomas and unlike Thomas, personality wise, he's Spurs material. The problem with him is he's better suited to being a third big than a starter. Which would be fine if he weren't being paid $7 million annually for the next 4 seasons. The other problem is he's a PF in an SF's body (he weighs 210) and he's extremely foul prone. I could see the Spurs being interested, but only if they're able to dump Jefferson's contract.

[Bruno]

2012 first round pick is Spurs' best trade asset. I wouldn't give it up for Jason Thompson. Blair is the most I would offer for him and if Kings don't like that, they can keep him.

[mountainballer]

The other problem is he's a PF in an SF's body (he weighs 210) and he's extremely foul prone.

the foul troubles are in fact the major issue about Johnson's game. but I don't see his weight as a major issue. btw. I don't think the 210 are still accurate, some players are still listed with the weight they had when they entered the league, even if they obviously have gained some weight. I think he is something like 220-225 right now. but yes, he will always struggle against bigger players in the post, but that's the price for having a PF quick enough to defend the perimeter. much like Tyrus Thomas in this regard and TT did have quite some fans on this board, when there were reports the Spurs are interested in trading for him.

[MaNu4Tres]

Jason Thompson>Amir Johnson> Maurice Speights.

Blair + Butler for Jason Thompson-- Get it done R.C!