General Trades Discussion

[Chinook]

Gay talks are heating up: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8891818/rudy-gay-subject-active-trade-discussions-toronto-raptors-memphis-grizzlies-sources

I don't think the Raptors have what the Grizzlies want. However, they have some pieces that other teams may like in a mega-trade. It's possible that the Spurs with their expirings and young players can make a small trade or two if they feel like they need to improve still.

[Paranoid Pop]

I don't get how Gay with his bad contract generates so much interest. Toronto making Davis available is surprising...

[Chinook]

I don't get how Gay with his bad contract generates so much interest. Toronto making Davis available is surprising...

A contract is only bad if it precludes you from doing something you want to do. The Raptors have a huge void at the three and can definitely afford to overpay for a player like Gay. I'd see it as a good investment for them.

[Paranoid Pop]

A contract is only bad if it precludes you from doing something you want to do. The Raptors have a huge void at the three and can definitely afford to overpay for a player like Gay. I'd see it as a good investment for them.

Good point but giving young assets for him sounds counterproductive at best, if they get him for Bargnani and Calderon I could see the point but if they send Davis and/or picks, it sounds extremely bad.

[Chinook]

Good point but giving young assets for him sounds counterproductive at best, if they get him for Bargnani and Calderon I could see the point but if they send Davis and/or picks, it sounds extremely bad.

Honestly, if the Raptors can get Gay for Ed Davis, then they have to do it. They can't afford to sit around and watch people develop nowadays. If they get Arthur back as well (or maybe Sullinger from Boston for Lowery), then they have a better starting lineup than they do now. Despite what people think, Gay is a good player. If anything, Davis shouldn't be enough to get him since the Grizzlies are under the tax now.

[elemento]

Funny that TOR can't find any takers for Calderon (strange that Boston did show any interest so far considering what happened to Rondo).

Still, I wonder if ST fans would be willing to trade Jack straight up for Calderon to fix our backup PG problem (the biggest problem for SA so far this season).

[Seventyniner]

Funny that TOR can't find any takers for Calderon (strange that Boston did show any interest so far considering what happened to Rondo).

Still, I wonder if ST fans would be willing to trade Jack straight up for Calderon to fix our backup PG problem (the biggest problem for SA so far this season).

What would the Spurs do with the 4 other backup PGs on the roster?

I would much rather flip Jax + CoJo + Blair (+ Nando if they insist) for Kirilenko and Ridnour. Minnesota wouldn't do it, though. Maybe for Williams, Ridnour, and Amundson (filler).

[elemento]

The problem is that SA doesn't really have 4 backup PGs, at least not reliable ones. Neal is a SG. Nando is a rookie combo guard, who showed great passing skills, but turns the ball over too much to be a reliable PG. Mills is a SG in a PG body and Cojo doesn't belong to the rotation. I am not saying I would do it but it's not like It doesn't make any sense.

Still, I think the Grizz and Tor might want to find a 3rd team to give them an asset for Calderon (the asset would go to the Grizz)

I would prefer your trade easily, but I don't think Minny would entertain it as you said.

Anyway, it's just a thought. It would be nice to get a great backup PG once again, even though losing Jack would hurt the team, especially in the playoffs.

[TD 21]

I could see this going down . . .

To Mavericks: Calderon

To Grizzlies: Davis, Ross, Kleiza, Carter, (Dahntay) Jones, future 1st round pick (via Mavs)

To Raptors: Gay, Arthur, Beaubois


Mavs deplete their wing depth (they can bring back Douglas-Roberts for some scoring punch on the wing and/or just wait until Maggette inevitably get's bought out post deadline), but get an upgrade at PG, while not adding salary past this season

Grizzlies get two quality prospects, a 1st (which they're looking for), replace some of the outgoing scoring punch on the wing and shed significant long term salary

Raptors get a pseudo star and player they've long coveted, who also fills a longtime positional need, while plugging would be holes as well

[Mel_13]

The problem is that SA doesn't really have 4 backup PGs, at least not reliable ones. Neal is a SG. Nando is a rookie combo guard, who showed great passing skills, but turns the ball over too much to be a reliable PG. Mills is a SG in a PG body and Cojo doesn't belong to the rotation. I am not saying I would do it but it's not like It doesn't make any sense.

Still, I think the Grizz and Tor might want to find a 3rd team to give them an asset for Calderon (the asset would go to the Grizz)

I would prefer your trade easily, but I don't think Minny would entertain it as you said.

Anyway, it's just a thought. It would be nice to get a great backup PG once again, even though losing Jack would hurt the team, especially in the playoffs.

Woj says that finding a third team to take Calderon is the final hurdle that must be cleared to move Gay to Toronto. The Spurs could be that team if they were willing to see Jack wind up on the Grizz. I don't think they would.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bhlme2k

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--grizzlies--raptors-looking-for-third-team-to-facilitate-rudy-gay-trade-033758281.html

[manufan10]

Woj says that finding a third team to take Calderon is the final hurdle that must be cleared to move Gay to Toronto. The Spurs could be that team if they were willing to see Jack wind up on the Grizz. I don't think they would.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bhlme2k

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--grizzlies--raptors-looking-for-third-team-to-facilitate-rudy-gay-trade-033758281.html

I'd prefer them not trading Jack to a team the Spurs could face in the playoffs. He'd be a Spurs killer.

[Mel_13]

I'd prefer them not trading Jack to a team the Spurs could face in the playoffs. He'd be a Spurs killer.

I agree and I think the Spurs FO would also agree.

[MaNu4Tres]

Funny that TOR can't find any takers for Calderon (strange that Boston did show any interest so far considering what happened to Rondo).

Still, I wonder if ST fans would be willing to trade Jack straight up for Calderon to fix our backup PG problem (the biggest problem for SA so far this season).

His name is Manu.

Probably the best back up point guard in the league, tbh. Spurs don't need a pure point guard if Manu's coming off the bench. They need to find a defensive (good 3 point spot up shooting) 6'1"- 6'4" guy that can play with Manu and defend opposing point guards (defending the back-up point guard is the Spurs weakness; not necessarily offensive point guard play).

I honestly think Corey Joseph has the tools to be that guy but we won't really find that out til next year.

[elemento]

His name is Manu.

Probably the best back up point guard in the league, tbh. Spurs don't need a pure point guard if Manu's coming off the bench. They need to find a defensive (good 3 point spot up shooting) 6'1"- 6'4" guy that can play with Manu and defend opposing point guards (defending the back-up point guard is the Spurs weakness; not necessarily offensive point guard play).

I honestly think Corey Joseph has the tools to be that guy but we won't really find that out til next year.

When I said backup PG problems, It was essentially pointing out the guys that play with Manu (Neal, Mills, Nando), not Manu. All of them are crap defenders and when SA plays against a team like the Clips with Bledsoe, it's like a living nightmare when he pressures our guys.

I will be honest. I don't like Manu coming off the bench. I understand he has do it because of our personnel, but if SA could get a reliable backup PG (Calderon for example), SA could simply start Manu and pair Calderon with Green, who fits your description of a guy that could guard 1-3 and shoot 3s.

I agree with you that Cory fits our need, but we have to be realistic here because he won't play significant minutes this season.

In the end, it's just an idea. I agree with Mel in a sense that that's not how the FO thinks. They value Jack and they know they can count on him in the post-season, when it matters.

[MaNu4Tres]

When I said backup PG problems, It was essentially pointing out the guys that play with Manu (Neal, Mills, Nando), not Manu. All of them are crap defenders and when SA plays against a team like the Clips with Bledsoe, it's like a living nightmare when he pressures our guys.

I will be honest. I don't like Manu coming off the bench. I understand he has do it because of our personnel, but if SA could get a reliable backup PG (Calderon for example), SA could simply start Manu and pair Calderon with Green, who fits your description of a guy that could guard 1-3 and shoot 3s.

I agree with you that Cory fits our need, but we have to be realistic here because he won't play significant minutes this season.

In the end, it's just an idea. I agree with Mel in a sense that that's not how the FO thinks. They value Jack and they know they can count on him in the post-season, when it matters.

I actually love Manu off the bench. Why? Because it balances out the offensive efficiency throughout the duration of the 48 minutes. With Manu coming off the bench, Spurs will always have Manu or Parker ( or both) on the court at all times. That's huge in the long run.

And yeah I don't see them ever trading Jack to Memphis or any contender or anyone period for a back up point guard. You don't ever trade an important 20-25 mpg proven playoff performer for a player that wont see more than 14 minutes at best come post season ( Parker will play heavy minutes). Makes no sense to.

[MaNu4Tres]

A guy that fits the bill is Avery Bradley. If the Celtics continue regressing, he could be available. But the price for him may be too high for what the Spurs are willing to offer ( De Colo/Neal?).

[elemento]

I actually love Manu off the bench. Why? Because it balances out the offensive efficiency throughout the duration of the 48 minutes. With Manu coming off the bench, Spurs will always have Manu or Parker ( or both) on the court at all times. That's huge in the long run.

And yeah I don't see them ever trading Jack to Memphis or any contender or anyone period for a back up point guard. You don't ever trade an important 20-25 mpg proven playoff performer for a player that wont see more than 14 minutes at best come post season ( Parker will play heavy minutes). Makes no sense to.

In theory what you're saying makes sense and I don't disagree with you. But it's only practical when none of the starting pieces struggle. We all saw the meltdown with SAS offense when Green could not hit an open 3 against OKC. All the offensive balance went the "hell" and Pop had o start Manu in the middle of the WCF, he benched Green for the rest of the series and we saw Neal obligated to run the offense in the 2nd unit, which is always a bad idea.

Not saying that SA should jump all over it or anything, but I don't agree with you that It doesn't make sense. I reliable backup PG always make sense, especially when you have guys like Neal or Mills who can't handle to ball to save their lives.

[elemento]

A guy that fits the bill is Avery Bradley. If the Celtics continue regressing, he could be available. But the price for him may be too high for what the Spurs are willing to offer ( De Colo/Neal?).

Bradley is essentially untouchable, unless you're sending a star to Boston. Neal/De Colo can't get it done. Not even close tbh.

[MaNu4Tres]

We all saw the meltdown with SAS offense when Green could not hit an open 3 against OKC. All the offensive balance went the "hell" and Pop had o start Manu in the middle of the WCF, he benched Green for the rest of the series and we saw Neal obligated to run the offense in the 2nd unit, which is always a bad idea.

That was on Pop's watch, IMO. If you told me before the series started that for games 5-6, the Spurs would be without their 2nd best big man (Pop limited Splitters' minutes to the bare minimum) and without their starting 2 guard, I would have told you Spurs lose both games. And that's exactly what happened. (How good would OKC be those last 2 games without their 2nd best big man and Sefolosha?)

Sure Green couldn't buy a three in the WCF for 4 games, but the guy hit shots all damn year long (44% from three that year in over 234 attempts) and he was shooting 46% from 3 leading up to the OKC series in over 35 attempts (he was money for 8 playoff games in a row). You don't bury your depth because of the output of a small sample size. You don't. If anything you stick to your guns and just keep certain players on shorter leashes. Especially with this Spurs team, where the main 3 horses are up there in age and need to conserve more energy than they've been accustomed to in previous deep runs during their championship years (meaning utilizing the depth is essential to maintaining efficient output of the Big 3) .

[MaNu4Tres]

Not saying that SA should jump all over it or anything, but I don't agree with you that It doesn't make sense. I reliable backup PG always make sense, especially when you have guys like Neal or Mills who can't handle to ball to save their lives.

You're over exaggerating a little too much, tbh. Neal or Mills aren't Pete Maravich with the ball by any means. But they can make due for 14 mpg at most playing with Manu off the bench. The Spurs bringing up the ball and setting up the offense was not a weakness and wasn't the reason they lost last year. The reason they lost is because they were out executed by a younger, quicker, damn good team when it mattered. They couldn't make enough stops and couldn't make enough shots when it mattered.

[MaNu4Tres]

Bradley is essentially untouchable, unless you're sending a star to Boston. Neal/De Colo can't get it done. Not even close tbh.

A star for a back up PG with a PER of 9.5? I disagree. Bradley's value has dropped since last year. And I never said Neal/De Colo could get it done, I said that's what the Spurs would probably offer initially.

[elemento]

That was on Pop's watch, IMO. If you told me before the series started that for games 5-6, the Spurs would be without their 2nd best big man (Pop limited Splitters' minutes to the bare minimum) and without their starting 2 guard, I would have told you Spurs lose both games. And that's exactly what happened. (How good would OKC be those last 2 games without their 2nd best big man and Sefolosha?)

Sure Green couldn't buy a three in the WCF for 4 games, but the guy hit shots all damn year long (44% from three that year in over 234 attempts) and he was shooting 46% from 3 leading up to the OKC series in over 35 attempts (he was money for 8 playoff games in a row). You don't bury your depth because of the output of a small sample size. You don't. If anything you stick to your guns and just keep certain players on shorter leashes. Especially with this Spurs team, where the main 3 horses are up there in age and need to conserve more energy than they've been accustomed to in previous deep runs during their championship years (meaning utilizing the depth is essential to maintaining efficient output of the Big 3) .

I don't think Pop was counting on Green's disappearing at all. In fact, I believe he was totally confident on him considering he had good series against the Jazz and the Clips. Jack, on the other hand, played like shit in the Clips series, barely getting minutes against them. He only got Pop's confidence after hitting big shot after big shot in the OKC series. Pop simply had no choice other than let him play meaningful minutes.

Splitter didn't play a lot of minutes because Pop didn't trust him and in Pop's mind, Splitter was not the 2nd best BIG of the team ,Diaw was, and that was why Boris was starting. Splitter was essentially Duncan's backup and had no confidence whatsoever with his shot, especially at the FT line. He couldn't even post up Fisher and that's pathetic.

What Green does in the regular season doesn't matter if he can't do it during the whole post-season. That's exactly why Spurs fans hate Matt Bonner (the regular season hero) and that's exactly why Spurs fans don't give a shit about Jack's shit numbers in the regular season.

Yeah utilizing depth is essential to this team, but it's worthless if the starters that play big minutes in the playoffs don't deliver. I am not exaggerating about Neal and Mills. We simply can't trust them with the ball, especially facing teams with guys like Bledsoe, Bradley, Shumpert, etc.

The OKC series had a lot of factors. Everything was fine while Parker was getting his buckets, hence 2 great wins at home.

Once they started to switch on the P&R and put Thabo on TP, the offensive flow was destroyed. Green couldn't buy a bucket, Diaw was ignored by OKC's defense and Timmy struggled offensively against Ibaka/Perk. Manu stepped up in that series and so did Jack, but that wasn't enough.

[elemento]

A star for a back up PG with a PER of 9.5? I disagree. Bradley's value has dropped since last year. And I never said Neal/De Colo could get it done, I said that's what the Spurs would probably offer initially.

Bradley isn't a PG, he is an undersized SG. His PER doesn't matter for 2 factors :

1st - PER is not good to measure the defensive impact of player (Bowen was always awful in terms of PER). Bradley is one of the best defensive guards in the league. If you don't believe me, watch a Boston game.

2nd - He is coming back from a serious injury.

Yeah his value may have dropped because of his injury and that's exactly why Boston should sell him low now. It wouldn't make any sense.

[Paranoid Pop]

His name is Manu.

Probably the best back up point guard in the league, tbh. Spurs don't need a pure point guard if Manu's coming off the bench. They need to find a defensive (good 3 point spot up shooting) 6'1"- 6'4" guy that can play with Manu and defend opposing point guards (defending the back-up point guard is the Spurs weakness; not necessarily offensive point guard play).

I honestly think Corey Joseph has the tools to be that guy but we won't really find that out til next year.

Lol at MAnu being able to play PG, you want him to set a turnover record or something?

[Mel_13]

Lol at MAnu being able to play PG, you want him to set a turnover record or something?

Manu's assist to turnover ratio is the second best on the team by a considerable margin and compares favorably with many starting PGs in the NBA, including All Stars such as Westbrook and Holiday.

[Strategic]

Maybe the issue is Pop's penchant for sticking with his gut. When the Griz eliminated the Spurs two years ago he hesitated to use Splitter more even though he showed the ability to help against Memphis. He has stuck with Bonner in the past until..............I just don't know. Now there is Danny Green who is operating with Pop's favor. While often not appearing to do much right, he has a penchant for not doing anything wrong in the offense.

[MaNu4Tres]

Bradley isn't a PG, he is an undersized SG. His PER doesn't matter for 2 factors :

1st - PER is not good to measure the defensive impact of player (Bowen was always awful in terms of PER). Bradley is one of the best defensive guards in the league. If you don't believe me, watch a Boston game.

2nd - He is coming back from a serious injury.

Yeah his value may have dropped because of his injury and that's exactly why Boston should sell him low now. It wouldn't make any sense.

I'm pretty aware of his defensive presence and I probably watch more NBA games (including Boston) than the average die hard NBA fan. I watch just about every game (not just the Spurs).

I'm also aware that PER isn't a good measure of a players defensive presence, but that still doesn't justify your premise that his market value is worthy of an All-Star in return. That's crazy talk, tbh. Only subjective pro-Celtic fans would agree to that, tbh.

Like I said previously, I never said Avery Bradley makes sense for a potential Boston/SA deal, I just simply pointed out how his skill-set would fit a need for the Spurs and that it's obvious that the price for him would be too high for what the Spurs would probably initially offer (De Colo or Neal/Blair).

[Paranoid Pop]

Manu's assist to turnover ratio is the second best on the team by a considerable margin and compares favorably with many starting PGs in the NBA, including All Stars such as Westbrook and Holiday.

Yeah that doesnt change the fact that he's not a PG, he can't bring the ball up the court vs pressure and doesn't have the handles of a PG in general. He's probably the best passing SG in league tho.

[Mel_13]

Yeah that doesnt change the fact that he's not a PG, he can't bring the ball up the court vs pressure and doesn't have the handles of a PG in general. He's probably the best passing SG in league tho.

And all that, aside from moving the goalposts, doesn't change the fact that Manu is the best option for the job on the current roster.

[elemento]

I'm pretty aware of his defensive presence and I probably watch more NBA games (including Boston) than the average die hard NBA fan. I watch just about every game (not just the Spurs).

I'm also aware that PER isn't a good measure of a players defensive presence, but that still doesn't justify your premise that his market value is worthy of an All-Star in return. That's crazy talk, tbh. Only subjective pro-Celtic fans would agree to that, tbh.

Like I said previously, I never said Avery Bradley makes sense for a potential Boston/SA deal, I just simply pointed out how his skill-set would fit a need for the Spurs and that it's obvious that the price for him would be too high for what the Spurs would probably initially offer (De Colo or Neal/Blair).
I never said his market value is worth an all-star. I simply said that Boston has no reason to trade him, unless it's for a star. And a package of Neal/Nando won't get it done, even though I do agree with you that he would be a good fit with Manu. Yeah, Boston fans usually overrate him like crazy (we used to do it with Hill as well), but ask any Boston fan If the would entertain the idea of a Neal-Nando/Bradley swap.

In the end, we simply disagree in the sense that for you, the PG situation is OK, but for me It is not. I never said that a Jack/Calderon swap is a no-brainer or anything. I would simply understand if it happens considering how I see the backup PG situation overall.

I respect your opinion and I simply disagree with it. No problem at all to disagree. The important thing is to discuss it in a civil manner tbh.

[Paranoid Pop]

Manu's assist to turnover ratio is the second best on the team by a considerable margin and compares favorably with many starting PGs in the NBA, including All Stars such as Westbrook and Holiday.

Also Boris has a better assist to turnover ratio and Westbrick and Holiday average about 4 TOs a game...

[Paranoid Pop]

And all that, aside from moving the goalposts, doesn't change the fact that Manu is the best option for the job on the current roster.

Well the thing is, the magical player that's not a PG but can bring the ball up the court doesn't really exist I think. Players like Tyreke Evans and Mills might be the closest to that mold...

[Mel_13]

Also Boris has a better assist to turnover ratio and Westbrick and Holiday average about 4 TOs a games...

I was only looking at the guards, but point taken on Boris. As to the numbers you cite for the two All Star PGs, they rather help to make my case. Thanks.

[Mel_13]

Well the thing is, the magical player that's not a PG but can bring the ball up the court doesn't really exist I think. Players like Tyreke Evans and Mills might be the closest to that mold...

I agree that Manu/Mills while Tony rests is the best that the Spurs can do with their current assets.

[Paranoid Pop]

Feels like Beasley is looking better and better, I remember Chinook wanted him earlier in the season...

[therealtruth]

Eric Maynor is out of the rotation in OKC. He would be a decent backup PG that looks to pass first and can knock down big shots. I remember he was big for them two seasons ago. It would allow us to start Manu and move Green to the bench and get Neal out of the rotation.

[ace3g]

The Warriors would love to get their hands on Denver's Timofey Mozgov, or even San Antonio's DeJuan Blair. But acquiring worthy help would require the Warriors to part with someone they like.http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/50295/warriors-would-love-to-land-mozgov-or-blair.html

[Mel_13]

Eric Maynor is out of the rotation in OKC. He would be a decent backup PG that looks to pass first and can knock down big shots. I remember he was big for them two seasons ago. It would allow us to start Manu and move Green to the bench and get Neal out of the rotation.

2.1 assists per 36 minutes
29.1% FG %

There are real truth reasons he's fallen out of the rotation.

[Paranoid Pop]

The Raptors need another PG, we got a Canadian kid who probably deserves to be in the NBA fulltime now...

[Paranoid Pop]

2.1 assists per 36 minutes
29.1% FG %

There are real truth reasons he's fallen out of the rotation.

Agreed may as well go after Fisher if we're that desperate.

[ace3g]

Also Glen Davis broke his left foot last night, so they might be in the market for another big

[Chinook]

Feels like Beasley is looking better and better, I remember Chinook wanted him earlier in the season...

I did. But it looks to be like he's playing well because a buddy of his is the coach there now. While the Spurs' players love Pop, he's not a buddy-buddy coach, especially with new young players. I'd be worried about Beasley's response to Pop's coaching.

No question he's looking better now. He's even been decently efficient recently. He's shooting over 50 percent and averaging a whopping 27/8 per 36 over the last five games. If he played the four, his numbers could be even better. But I don't think he brings much consistent effort on defense. That wouldn't fly in San Antonio.

Would I trade Jack for him? I'm not sure. Beasley is obviously a matchup nightmare on offense, but I don't think he'd really help the team unless he really buys in. If the Spurs actually did acquire him, I'd feel good about it, because it would mean that Pop feels comfortable with the fit.

Now would I trade Splitter and Jack for Gortat and Beasley (the en vogue trade idea at the time)? Hell no.

[Chinook]

The Raptors need another PG, we got a Canadian kid who probably deserves to be in the NBA fulltime now...

But they have nothing the Spurs should want. Ed Davis was the closest thing, and he's gone.

[tp2021]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=awkhpcn
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aayqlkj

Because I'm bored at work and have nothing better to do than play with the Armchair GM toy.

[CGD]

The Warriors would love to get their hands on Denver's Timofey Mozgov, or even San Antonio's DeJuan Blair. But acquiring worthy help would require the Warriors to part with someone they like.

http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/50295/warriors-would-love-to-land-mozgov-or-blair.html

Really? I dont think the Spurs would be looking to take anyone back. GSW's 1st rounder, which projects to be in the early 20s, would be more than enough. Get it done!

[Chinook]

Really? I dont think the Spurs would be looking to take anyone back. GSW's 1st rounder, which projects to be in the early 20s, would be more than enough. Get it done!

The Warriors owe Utah that pick. The soonest the Spurs could get one from them would be 2015.

[td4mvp2k]

The Warriors owe Utah that pick. The soonest the Spurs could get one from them would be 2015.

Its more then to let Blair go with no pick.

[Chinook]

Its more then to let Blair go with no pick.

I don't really agree. I'd rather take a second or two and a prospect like Tyler.

[td4mvp2k]

I don't really agree. I'd rather take a second or two and a prospect like Tyler.

A pick and a prospect is alot for a player who gets no PT.

[Bruno]

I don't really see why Warriors would be interested in Blair. They have a lot of quality at PF/C with Bogut, Lee and Landry. They have enough depth with Ezeli, Biedrins and Draymond Green.

To me, the team that would be maybe the best fit for Blair is Portland. Their bench sucks, they have a trade exception big enough for Blair and they have small assets Spurs should like (second round pick, rights to Papanikolaou).

[Chinook]

A pick and a prospect is alot for a player who gets no PT.

Not that much when you think about it. The pick would be in the 50s, so it has little short-term value. And the player (Tyler) doesn't really play at all. If the Warriors were to trade for Blair, he'd probably be firmly in the rotation. So essentially, they're send two players who will probably never become significant contributors for one who will be. That's a pretty good deal for them. If anything, it doesn't help the Spurs enough.

[Chinook]

I don't really see why Warriors would be interested in Blair. They have a lot of quality at PF/C with Bogut, Lee and Landry. They have enough depth with Ezeli, Biedrins and Draymond Green.

To me, the team that would be maybe the best fit for Blair is Portland. Their bench sucks, they have a trade exception big enough for Blair and they have small assets Spurs should like (second round pick, rights to Papanikolaou).

Their second should also be a lot higher than Golden States, high enough to perhaps catch an international player whom teams were afraid to draft in the first round due to contract issues. It'd also make for interesting ammo for trading up or moving Bonner's contract for a good player.

[elemento]

POR also has the MIN 2nd round pick. It will be a decent 2nd round pick.

Blair, even with all his flaws, is better than all the bench BIGs that POR has. I would take that MIN 2nd + the rights of Papaniko for Blair in a heart beat.

[Bruno]

296749757467082752

That's DeJuan's brother. It quite indicates DeJuan's wish to go elsewhere.

[Chinook]

Interesting. With Baynes on board, the Spurs probably feel fine with their big man depth. In the worst case, they could sign a d-leaguer to be the six big. If they can get a first-rounder, I think they should go for it. A second and some rights also looks pretty good right now.

[therealtruth]

2.1 assists per 36 minutes
29.1% FG %

There are real truth reasons he's fallen out of the rotation.

I added the caveat if he can regain his form from 2 years ago.

[Strategic]

I don't really see why Warriors would be interested in Blair. They have a lot of quality at PF/C with Bogut, Lee and Landry. They have enough depth with Ezeli, Biedrins and Draymond Green.

To me, the team that would be maybe the best fit for Blair is Portland. Their bench sucks, they have a trade exception big enough for Blair and they have small assets Spurs should like (second round pick, rights to Papanikolaou).

Doesn't make sense for the Dubs to be looking at Blair, unless RJ reminded them of Blair's performances against the Thunder couple years ago. May be able to get more for DeJuan but I don't see Jeremy Tyler getting any PT on this Golden State team. He's younger and more athletic than Blair, plus 6'10". Spurs might have a better chance of developing him in Austin. His price is right also.

[Spursfanfromafar]

296749757467082752

That's DeJuan's brother. It quite indicates DeJuan's wish to go elsewhere.

A possible trade that I would like is to exchange Blair & Neal for Prigioni and Ronnie Brewer. Prigioni has upped his play in the past few games being scorching hot in his shooting and generally doing a good job of backing up Jason Kidd & Felton, but I suspect the Knicks will bite if they are offered Neal, who I think has flattered to deceive this season for the Spurs and is replaceable by Mills. DeJuan will also be a decent PF option for the Knicks who have Camby & Rasheed Wallace hurt plus the ageing Kurt Thomas as backup. Plus because of his offensive flaws, they aren't playing Brewer at all. I think Brewer will be a good defensive addition to the Spurs and will help in playing good spot minutes and assignments.

Besides uniting Ginobili with Prigioni will add more ballast to the Spurs' United Nations.

[Paranoid Pop]

The Spurs almost have to unload some players more than getting some new ones.

I'd send CJ, Neal and Blair for picks at this point.

We don't really have the pieces to trade for a real upgrade at any position anyways unless they are willing to send Green or Tiago.

[Strategic]

The Spurs almost have to unload some players more than getting some new ones.

I'd send CJ, Neal and Blair for picks at this point.

We don't really have the pieces to trade for a real upgrade at any position anyways unless they are willing to send Green or Tiago.Yep. I would like to see Spurs unload someone also. Even though Blair's production last week was positive I still think he is a good candidate. The one I most would like to see traded is Neal. He still has a unknown ceiling and the Spurs have people on the bench behind him. Neal just doesn't seem to have enough patience to run the Spurs offense.

[CGD]

I don't really see why Warriors would be interested in Blair. They have a lot of quality at PF/C with Bogut, Lee and Landry. They have enough depth with Ezeli, Biedrins and Draymond Green.

To me, the team that would be maybe the best fit for Blair is Portland. Their bench sucks, they have a trade exception big enough for Blair and they ?have small assets Spurs should like (second round pick, rights to Papanikolaou).?


This is interesting. Until the Lorbek saga last year, I really didn't consider the idea of trading for other teams' drafted international prospects. Do you know who else is out there at this point that is gettable and who has has emerged since being drafted by an NBA team? Sergio Llull is out there, but I don't think the Rockets trade his rights any time soon.

[Bruno]

Do you know who else is out there at this point that is gettable and who has has emerged since being drafted by an NBA team? Sergio Llull is out there, but I don't think the Rockets trade his rights any time soon.

Llull doesn't want to join the NBA. He recently signed a long term contract extension. The best draft rights hold player in Europe is likely Nikola Mirotic but Bulls likely won't let him go.

[Bruno]

I don't really have an issue with Blair staying with Spurs. As long as he stays quiet at the end of the bench, he will do no harm. I wish him being traded more for him than for Spurs. Spurs will get very little for him because he has a low trade value and it will be nice for him to get a new opportunity with another team.

However, I'm' having more and more an issue with Neal staying with Spurs because he is hurting the team. Neal at PG will never work. Right now, instead of using the backup PG minutes to develop a player that might work at that spot like Mills, De Colo or even Joseph, Pop is just wasting these minutes by giving them to Neal. If nothing changes, it will end in the playoffs will Neal failing at the backup PG spot with no alternatives because Mills/De Colo/Joseph won't have received enough playing time during the regular season. Spurs are inexorably heading into a disaster.

[Spursfanfromafar]

However, I'm' having more and more an issue with Neal staying with Spurs because he is hurting the team. Neal at PG will never work. Right now, instead of using the backup PG minutes to develop a player that might work at that spot like Mills, De Colo or even Joseph, Pop is just wasting these minutes by giving them to Neal. If nothing changes, it will end in the playoffs will Neal failing at the backup PG spot with no alternatives because Mills/De Colo/Joseph won't have received enough playing time during the regular season. Spurs are inexorably heading into a disaster.

Won't say they are headed toward disaster, but certainly not an optimal situation. Neal, I think, is well liked by the Spurs squad and the coaching staff for coming from a obscure location and doing relatively well. And I think that is why Pop is trying to carve a niche for him as a backup PG in the team despite his redundancy. But considering that Mills is more of a spot up shooter (who can pass but not run the PG show), De Colo is atleast for now a Turnover machine learning the NBA ropes and Joseph is still not ready (and too late for him to be tried out in the coaching staff's opinion), I think Neal can be traded for a stopgap PG for the playoffs.

[Russo21]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a5y37nq

do it! do it do it do it do it!!

[NickiRasgo]

A possible trade that I would like is to exchange Blair & Neal for Prigioni and Ronnie Brewer. Prigioni has upped his play in the past few games being scorching hot in his shooting and generally doing a good job of backing up Jason Kidd & Felton, but I suspect the Knicks will bite if they are offered Neal, who I think has flattered to deceive this season for the Spurs and is replaceable by Mills. DeJuan will also be a decent PF option for the Knicks who have Camby & Rasheed Wallace hurt plus the ageing Kurt Thomas as backup. Plus because of his offensive flaws, they aren't playing Brewer at all. I think Brewer will be a good defensive addition to the Spurs and will help in playing good spot minutes and assignments.

Besides uniting Ginobili with Prigioni will add more ballast to the Spurs' United Nations.

Liked this one.

[SpursIndonesia]

Forcing Neal to be the designated post season backup PG IS a DISASTER guaranteed to happen in my book.

[Bruno]

Won't say they are headed toward disaster, but certainly not an optimal situation. Neal, I think, is well liked by the Spurs squad and the coaching staff for coming from a obscure location and doing relatively well. And I think that is why Pop is trying to carve a niche for him as a backup PG in the team despite his redundancy. But considering that Mills is more of a spot up shooter (who can pass but not run the PG show), De Colo is atleast for now a Turnover machine learning the NBA ropes and Joseph is still not ready (and too late for him to be tried out in the coaching staff's opinion), I think Neal can be traded for a stopgap PG for the playoffs.

Mills paired with Ginobili is likely the best option Spurs have when Parker is on the bench. I think it would work well and a trade isn't necessary.

And De Colo should play SG.

[tp2021]

Backup PG

The Timberwolves have 4 point guards on their roster.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=avuscaz

I think Ridnour would be great in the backup PG role. Bonner's contract is necessary for the numbers to match up, along with one or both of Blair's and Neal's contracts. Trading all three helps get rid of the deadweight in the frontcourt as well as relieving the logjam at the guard spots. In a perfect world, we could keep Gary for one more playoff run, but if the T'wolves want his talents then we have to give something up to get something in return.

Cheap trades for a SF

DeShawn Stevenson
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkm3zr6

Jimmy Butler
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=belrawx

Omri Casspi
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=am9myvc

[elemento]

I wouldn't mind Ridnour and I think Bonner + Neal + Blair is overpaying for him. They have Rubio and Barea, they don't need a 3rd string PG making 4m/year this season and the next. Bonner + Dejuan or Neal is more than fair IMO. We could keep Neal as an insurance for Green/Manu.

As for the SFs, I don't see CHI moving Butler. He is a solid young player, very good defensively. Stevenson is a thug and his size is not good for a SF, I'd pass on him.

As for Omri, I think he is available for little to nothing. I like him. In the right environment, like ours, he could easily be Leonard's backup. But he would only make sense if Jack is traded, something that probably won't happen.

Anyway, not bad ideas at all.

[MaNu4Tres]

There's teams interested in Blair but Spurs are smart to wait it out to the very last minute of the trading deadline. That time is when the Spurs will have the most leverage in a possible trade for Blair (even if what their offered is insignificant to a degree; that moment is when teams get desperate for a player they covet).

So expect Blair to be here til the day of the deadline.

[Mel_13]

He needs to go by the deadline, even if they have to pay some team with cap space to take him. That will open a roster spot and create some breathing room under the tax to go after a vet that is bought out by his team or to sign a project for the SL and next year's training camp.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Celtics rookie Jared Sullinger will miss the rest of the season with a back injury, league sources tell Y! Sports. He will need surgery.

[Chinook]

He needs to go by the deadline, even if they have to pay some team with cap space to take him. That will open a roster spot and create some breathing room under the tax to go after a vet that is bought out by his team or to sign a project for the SL and next year's training camp.

Not to mention allowing the Spurs to take back more salary on draft night.

[Chinook]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Celtics rookie Jared Sullinger will miss the rest of the season with a back injury, league sources tell Y! Sports. He will need surgery.

Interesting. I think that really hurts the Celtics' ability to get back a quality player. He was one of their three value contracts. I can't see them making a significant reloading-type trade now.

[Paranoid Pop]

Wonder what the Celtics will do now.

They still have a lot of bad contracts on their hand that'd make rebuilding hard but at the same time I'm not sure there's a quick fix out there that can save their season.

I think Garnett for Bledsoe+Jordan+pick could be a good way to starting the rebuilding but I'm not sure Garnett would be ok with that.

[look_at_g_shred]

There's teams interested in Blair but Spurs are smart to wait it out to the very last minute of the trading deadline. That time is when the Spurs will have the most leverage in a possible trade for Blair (even if what their offered is insignificant to a degree; that moment is when teams get desperate for a player they covet).

So expect Blair to be here til the day of the deadline.

True. Didn't the Jackson deal happen on deadline day?

[elemento]

Well Sullinger did have back issues back in the draft and that's why he fell. Getting a good talent late because of injuries has its pros and cons. Still a good prospect though.

[Strategic]

Well Sullinger did have back issues back in the draft and that's why he fell. Getting a good talent late because of injuries has its pros and cons. Still a good prospect though.

Sort of like DeJuan Blair falling in the draft.

[Uriel]

The Warriors would love to get their hands on Denver's Timofey Mozgov, or even San Antonio's DeJuan Blair. But acquiring worthy help would require the Warriors to part with someone they like.

http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/50295/warriors-would-love-to-land-mozgov-or-blair.html
A late first round pick would be nice, thank you very much.

People in this board think DeJuan Blair has low trade value because that is the general opinion that pervades SpursTalk, but they fail to realize that he is held in high regard around the rest of the NBA. For instance, he was selected to be part of Team USA's Select Team last summer, along with several other rising young stars.

[Chinook]

A late first round pick would be nice, thank you very much.

They don't have a first to give. I think someone could beat a 2015 (at the earliest) first-rounder.

[EmantheSpursFan]

I want JJ Barea, offer Blair/Bonner + Neal

[cdcast]

how bout Blair, Bonner, Neal, and Green for Barea and Williams

In the playoffs:
starters: TP, Kawhi, Williams, Tim, Splitter
bench: Barea, Manu, SJax, and Diaw

With Kawhi and Williams at SG and SF, ballhandling would be the concern but that bench would be awesome.
Or Manu starts and Williams to the bench. Either way, a good bench for the playoffs.

[Paranoid Pop]

Trying to come up with some trade involving Tiago that could make sense.

Tiago + Green + Bonner for Kirilenko+pick could be nice tbh.

[Paranoid Pop]

how bout Blair, Bonner, Neal, and Green for Barea and Williams

In the playoffs:
starters: TP, Kawhi, Williams, Tim, Splitter
bench: Barea, Manu, SJax, and Diaw

With Kawhi and Williams at SG and SF, ballhandling would be the concern but that bench would be awesome.
Or Manu starts and Williams to the bench. Either way, a good bench for the playoffs.

I like the idea as well.

[Paranoid Pop]

From the wolves blog, in the post game comments :


It would seem to me that AK and JJ should join the ranks of Roy’s contract as intriguing trade pieces that the Wolves can offer. Luke as well, I suppose, but RA is so enamored with him I can’t see how he would come to be dealt.
If I’m the Wolves I’m looking for a young big and deadeye shooters in return.

[elemento]

Rumor Press ‏@NBARumorPress (https://twitter.com/NBARumorPress)
Noah's plantar fasciitis and Boozer's hamstring could make the Bulls more urgent to land another big.

Rumor Press ‏@NBARumorPress (https://twitter.com/NBARumorPress)
Most of Bulls recent trade discussions continue to focus on cheap, backup big men.

Blair anyone?

[Chinook]

Rumor Press ‏@NBARumorPress (https://twitter.com/NBARumorPress)
Noah's plantar fasciitis and Boozer's hamstring could make the Bulls more urgent to land another big.

Rumor Press ‏@NBARumorPress (https://twitter.com/NBARumorPress)
Most of Bulls recent trade discussions continue to focus on cheap, backup big men.

Blair anyone?


Jimmy Butler would make some sense here. Also, the Bulls may not want to keep their first-rounder this year, as they're pretty much in cap hell for a while.

[Paranoid Pop]

Would they really give him up for Blair of all people...

[elemento]

Jimmy Butler would make some sense here. Also, the Bulls may not want to keep their first-rounder this year, as they're pretty much in cap hell for a while.

No way CHI would give up Butler for Blair. He has been playing well lately.

A 1st round pick I could see though.

[Paranoid Pop]

No way CHI would give up Butler for Blair. He has been playing well lately.

A 1st round pick I could see though.

Yeah they might want to move Belinelli who has a production very close to Neal looking at the numbers, it's pretty weird, was thinking he was doing much better.

Wonder if they'd send Teague who seems like a nice prospect at PG, yeah we got several of those already but none seems to show much, CJ should be sent to Toronto for his sake.

[tp2021]

Any chance that Jack gets traded and pulls a Brent Barry? Is that still even allowed under the new CBA?

[tp2021]

Jimmy Butler would make some sense here. Also, the Bulls may not want to keep their first-rounder this year, as they're pretty much in cap hell for a while.

I had one proposed trade for a Bulls SF in #2073, but here's a different one!
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bf6ghmk

-The Bulls get rid of the biggest tradeable contract they have (Rose/Noah aren't going anywhere and no one wants Boozer)
-In exchange for 2 expiring contracts
-They already have a young backup SF in Butler, who is producing and is on a cheap 3 year deal
-They get a young backup big
-Maybe they could/would buy out Jack's contract to save more money?

Most likely a fantasy. I doubt Chicago trades Deng.

[Paranoid Pop]

Yeah seems unlikely they pretty much salary dump an all star.

That said Deng is likely to be traded if they like Butler as much as they seem to like him, they may get a nice player back for him.

[timtonymanu]

Any chance that Jack gets traded and pulls a Brent Barry? Is that still even allowed under the new CBA?

Nope. He has to play out the season with whatever team he plays for. If he gets waived, he can't return to the Spurs until the offseason, I think.

[look_at_g_shred]

I like the idea as well.

I really don't see the Spurs moving Green this season. Even with TD and Baynes going down.

[Paranoid Pop]

Any Bledsoe trade idea with the rumors heating up?

Tiago + Bonner + Mills for Odom + Bledsoe?

[ace3g]

Brooklyn has placed forward Andray Blatche on the market, (http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/04/13/NBA-Report-Ferry-all-the-potential-trade/msn_landing.html?blockID=858721&feedID=3725) according to multiple sources. The Nets are looking for a draft pick in return. Portland, looking for ways to shore up its bench, might have an interest
http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/50527/nets-placed-andray-blatche-on-the-market.html

[Chinook]

Brooklyn has placed forward Andray Blatche on the market, (http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/04/13/NBA-Report-Ferry-all-the-potential-trade/msn_landing.html?blockID=858721&feedID=3725) according to multiple sources. The Nets are looking for a draft pick in return. Portland, looking for ways to shore up its bench, might have an interest


http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/50527/nets-placed-andray-blatche-on-the-market.html

Damn. Hopefully, the Nets are asking for an unreasonable price, or else the Blair market is going to shrink.

[Paranoid Pop]

Damn. Hopefully, the Nets are asking for an unreasonable price, or else the Blair market is going to shrink.

Like it wasn't hard enough to unload a undersized scrub with Bynum-like knees...

[pad300]

Can't see us paying that for Blatche. We'd have a very hard time keeping him (he's on a 1 year contract, so no bird rights). He'd be fighting for 3ed big spot with Diaw. He's got size on Diaw, but Diaw has experience and defence on him. I can't see us paying a draft pick for a rental...

[look_at_g_shred]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=be876o5

[Seventyniner]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=be876o5

Congratulations, you found a trade that neither team would do.

[Bruno]

Spurs might have had some regrets earlier this season to have not signed Blatche this summer but they are now fully gone with the rape case. I'm sure they aren't at all interested in getting him at the trade deadline.

Months ago, Bucks have been identified as a team with a logjam of bigmen that could help Spurs. Aside of players whom Spurs shouldn't be interested like Gooden or Dalembert, the player that is getting less and less minutes is Ekpe Udoh. he will be paid $4.5M next season, so Bucks might be interested in salary dumping him.

[Chinook]

Months ago, Bucks have been identified as a team with a logjam of bigmen that could help Spurs. Aside of players whom Spurs shouldn't be interested like Gooden or Dalembert, the player that is getting less and less minutes is Ekpe Udoh. he will be paid $4.5M next season, so Bucks might be interested in salary dumping him.

I could see that being possible during the draft, but it doesn't seem likely this season. The Spurs would either have to move Bonner and another contract or go into the tax. I don't think they need another big that badly. During the draft, though, it's possible that Udoh may be the best the Spurs find for Bonner's contract, and I doubt they'd have to give up another asset for Milwaukee to give him up if it gets to that point.

[Mel_13]

I could see that being possible during the draft, but it doesn't seem likely this season. The Spurs would either have to move Bonner and another contract or go into the tax. I don't think they need another big that badly. During the draft, though, it's possible that Udoh may be the best the Spurs find for Bonner's contract, and I doubt they'd have to give up another asset for Milwaukee to give him up if it gets to that point.

Bonner's salary is slightly higher than Udoh's. They can do a straight swap and stay under the tax.

[Chinook]

Bonner's salary is slightly higher than Udoh's. They can do a straight swap and stay under the tax.

Thanks for that. I was under the impression that Udoh was making close to $4.5 Million this year. In that case, it may be possible to make that trade, but I don't know if I'd be okay with getting rid of a floor-spacer for another center. Does Udoh have any perimeter skills?

[Paranoid Pop]

Yeah now that we have Baynes I'm not sure about bringing in another big unless it's a clear cut upgrade like Garnett, Bonner is fine with being the 5th big and for a 5th big that's probably one of the most important things.

Udoh is also pretty underwhelming rebounder so I really don't see him moving up to 3rd or 4th big. I liked the idea before getting Baynes tho.

[Mel_13]

Thanks for that. I was under the impression that Udoh was making close to $4.5 Million this year. In that case, it may be possible to make that trade, but I don't know if I'd be okay with getting rid of a floor-spacer for another center. Does Udoh have any perimeter skills?

His shooting numbers aren't good and he doesn't rebound well for his size. I wouldn't trade Bonner for him. I'd rather hold out for something better or just pay him the 1M buyout to go away. Committing 4.5M to Udoh for next season doesn't make any sense to me.

[NASpurs]

299175037313900545

[NASpurs]

:lol not saying the Spurs should pursue him. Just posting the tweet.

[TD 21]

His shooting numbers aren't good and he doesn't rebound well for his size. I wouldn't trade Bonner for him. I'd rather hold out for something better or just pay him the 1M buyout to go away. Committing 4.5M to Udoh for next season doesn't make any sense to me.

Me neither. Chinook, he's more four than five. Think of a poor man's Ibaka. He can make a mid range shot, but not with the range, volume or consistency of an adept mid range shooter.

Given the obsession so many have with him, I can't believe it hasn't been posted, but Ford claims that Ilyasova (among others), are available. He doesn't say anything about the asking price, but given their flexibility going forward, I can't imagine they're looking to salary dump him, which means he's available in the same way almost every player is: for the right price.

[Chinook]

Me neither. Chinook, he's more four than five. Think of a poor man's Ibaka. He can make a mid range shot, but not with the range, volume or consistency of an adept mid range shooter.

Given the obsession so many have with him, I can't believe it hasn't been posted, but Ford claims that Ilyasova (among others), are available. He doesn't say anything about the asking price, but given their flexibility going forward, I can't imagine they're looking to salary dump him, which means he's available in the same way almost every player is: for the right price.

Thanks for the clarification. I saw that he's started a couple of games at the five, which I why I thought he was a center. He doesn't sound terrible, but he also doesn't sound like a good fit. To be playing time on the Spurs, a player needs to have at least one viable offensive skill. If he can't shoot, that already sets him back. It'd help if he was great at the pick-and-roll. I'd rather have Mbah a Moute if I have to deal with a player with limited offense.

I still like Ilyasova, but I think he's more of an off-season target. The Spurs could wait until draft night and then offer a decent package of Bonner's semi-guaranteed, Green (and/or De Colo), and their 2013 and 2014 first-rounders. I can't see that happening unless they decide not to re-sign Splitter, though.

[squiz]

hearing rumors that dallas is looking to move carter/marion. cuban has said that the 'bank of cuban' is open so it makes sense that they'd like to clear some money for a big FA signing, an expiring contract like s-jax could be attractive to them. what are your thoughts? marion's defense on durant and lebron was a key to their 2011 playoffs run/championship and would seem like a great addition for us, carter has also impressed me with his willingness to play a role off the dallas bench and is playing pretty good D at this stage of his career. with jacksons play of late i wouldn't be opposed to the idea of moving him.

[Seventyniner]

I still like Ilyasova, but I think he's more of an off-season target. The Spurs could wait until draft night and then offer a decent package of Bonner's semi-guaranteed, Green (and/or De Colo), and their 2013 and 2014 first-rounders. I can't see that happening unless they decide not to re-sign Splitter, though.

I take it you meant 2013 and 2015.

With this Ilyasova idea and the Spurs' supposed interest in Al Jefferson, let's go whole hog here:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjnjnjp

SPURS
Pros: get two good offensive players to build around post-Duncan (assuming Jefferson is re-signed for 4 or 5 years at a reasonable salary), get a steady hand at backup PG for this season, clear out some of the logjam of guards and big men
Cons: major shakeup to chemistry of a team playing near .800 ball, lose a lot of depth, could lose Jefferson for nothing, stuck with Ilyasova if he sucks, leaves a hole at PF (who plays behind Diaw?)
JAZZ
Pros: get Jennings, get a chance to lock up Splitter (because he's restricted)
Cons: take on Gooden's salary, lose both Millsap and Jefferson (losing the ability to keep either one)
BUCKS
Pros: dump Ilyasova's and Gooden's salaries, get Millsap for the stretch run
Cons: lose Jennings, would have to cut a player or two due to roster limits

This trade isn't all that serious anyway. The Jazz wouldn't be getting enough, and the Spurs have to send out too many players to take back so much salary. You're right that Ilyasova is an offseason target if anything.


On a different note, the Spurs' alleged interest in Gelabale means that a trade is quite likely given that the Spurs already have 15 players. It could be something as simple as dumping Blair to a team with cap space and sending enough cash to cover his salary (the most likely move imo).

[Chinook]

I take it you meant 2013 and 2015.

I didn't. On draft night, the Spurs can move both their 2013 and 2014 firsts, as 2013 would no longer be a future pick. (They'd technically be using their own pick and then moving the rights to whatever player they drafted.) That, Bonner's contract, and the fact that there is no penalty for going into the tax after the end of the regular season are the biggest reason why a draft-day trade is appealing. They're still limited on how much salary they can take back unless they move some contracts, so salary-dumping Blair and/or moving Neal for a pick could still on the docket for this season.

Apparently, the Gelabale thing is that the Spurs just admitted they had been interested before. I didn't take it to mean that they were still trying to sign him.

[Seventyniner]

I didn't. On draft night, the Spurs can move both their 2013 and 2014 firsts, as 2013 would no longer be a future pick. (They'd technically be using their own pick and then moving the rights to whatever player they drafted.) That, Bonner's contract, and the fact that there is no penalty for going into the tax after the end of the regular season are the biggest reason why a draft-day trade is appealing. They're still limited on how much salary they can take back unless they move some contracts, so salary-dumping Blair and/or moving Neal for a pick could still on the docket for this season.

I didn't know that the 2013 pick wouldn't be considered a future pick on draft night. Also, the Spurs should have more flexibility then because they might have worked out a number with Manu by then, maybe with Jax if the Spurs want to keep him, and maybe even Splitter, allowing the Spurs to know where they stand compared to the cap and tax.


Apparently, the Gelabale thing is that the Spurs just admitted they had been interested before. I didn't take it to mean that they were still trying to sign him.

I just found the timing kind of odd, given that the Wolves have to make a decision on Gelabale soon, and if they decide not to keep him, the Spurs might have to act fast.

[Chinook]

I didn't know that the 2013 pick wouldn't be considered a future pick on draft night. Also, the Spurs should have more flexibility then because they might have worked out a number with Manu by then, maybe with Jax if the Spurs want to keep him, and maybe even Splitter, allowing the Spurs to know where they stand compared to the cap and tax.

Yeah, on draft night, you're not actually trading picks. You're trading the rights of the players you draft. That's why Leonard and Bertans are not really the Spurs' picks. I think that there is a point on the day before the draft where you can't actually trade your picks.

When I say the Spurs need to dump salary, I mean they need to do it for trade rules, not for actually cap-managing purposes. Because the Spurs are so close to the tax line, they can only take back 125 percent of the salary they send out, which in the case of Bonner means they can only take back $4.5 Million. If they had room under the tax, they could take back 150 percent of the outgoing salary ($5.4 Million). That extra amount allows them to take back mid-level player in the first couple of years of their deals, or even a player like Derrick Williams. Trading just Blair allows the Spurs to take back $5.2 Million (Bonner's contract plus the remaining room under the tax), so event that makes a big difference.

Also I can't imagine Gelabale signing with the Spurs unless they get rid of Jack. Gelabale is going to want to play so that he can earn a decent contract next season, and sitting behind Green, Leonard, Manu and Jack in the very least won't help him do that. If the Spurs were to move Jack for a player at another position, that's another story.

[Seventyniner]

Also I can't imagine Gelabale signing with the Spurs unless they get rid of Jack. Gelabale is going to want to play so that he can earn a decent contract next season, and sitting behind Green, Leonard, Manu and Jack in the very least won't help him do that. If the Spurs were to move Jack for a player at another position, that's another story.

Good point. All the talk of Jefferson and Gelabale, along with the Baynes signing, seems to point to the front office actively pursuing trades.

[TD 21]

Thanks for the clarification. I saw that he's started a couple of games at the five, which I why I thought he was a center. He doesn't sound terrible, but he also doesn't sound like a good fit. To be playing time on the Spurs, a player needs to have at least one viable offensive skill. If he can't shoot, that already sets him back. It'd help if he was great at the pick-and-roll. I'd rather have Mbah a Moute if I have to deal with a player with limited offense.

I still like Ilyasova, but I think he's more of an off-season target. The Spurs could wait until draft night and then offer a decent package of Bonner's semi-guaranteed, Green (and/or De Colo), and their 2013 and 2014 first-rounders. I can't see that happening unless they decide not to re-sign Splitter, though.

No problem.

I don't see Ilyasova as a trade target period. I think they're committed to Splitter/Diaw as their 2nd/3rd bigs and they're not paying that much for a fourth. I also think they're committed to Green as their starting SG and would only trade him if it was a no brainer.

The only areas I could see them looking to upgrade at the deadline or in the off season, are primary backup PG (if they don't make a move at the deadline, they'll probably just hope one of the young guys emerges in training camp/preseason and claims the job) and SF, as well as fourth big/3rd PF.

[ace3g]

Basketball (http://sulia.com/channel/basketball)
Ric Bucher (http://sulia.com/ricbucher/)
+ Trust The Grizzlies are not done dealing, according to multiple sources -- they're just not looking to do any more
stripping. The Grizzlies are far enough under the luxury tax that they're willing to utilize at least part of their $7.5 million trade exception to add some perimeter help. Acquiring SG Courtney Lee, who Boston would consider flipping for some frontline help, was discussed but the Celtics aren't looking just to drop salary but add size. That, of course, is if they continue their current run since Rajon Rondo went down; the winning streak apparently has GM Danny Ainge feeling an obligation to KG and Paul Pierce to give them whatever he can to take one more shot rather than move one of his veterans and begin rebuilding.

[ace3g]

Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard) Sources: Nets & Bobcats discussing Ben Gordon for Kris Humphries trade. Nothing imminent but talks ongoing. Story on espn.con shortly

[waisman]

I think need backup PG too.
Colo has pass & IQ but ,,,


want PG young player or veteran minimum.

[Paranoid Pop]

How about Shawn Marion? Said he only wants to be traded to a contender.

We can send SJax expiring + a midget or something, Cuban may like that enough to deal with us since he's all about free agency now.

[waisman]

How about Extended contract SJax next year ?
hou much ?
about 5M ? more low ?


Although I thinks that this year SJax is good trade item to be sure .

[BackHome]

hearing rumors that dallas is looking to move carter/marion. cuban has said that the 'bank of cuban' is open so it makes sense that they'd like to clear some money for a big FA signing, an expiring contract like s-jax could be attractive to them. what are your thoughts? marion's defense on durant and lebron was a key to their 2011 playoffs run/championship and would seem like a great addition for us, carter has also impressed me with his willingness to play a role off the dallas bench and is playing pretty good D at this stage of his career. with jacksons play of late i wouldn't be opposed to the idea of moving him.

If Cuban would do this trade it would be great for us either one of these guys would make a dramatic impact for our team. We need another player who can create and who can score inside or out. Blair/SJ/Neal.......just do it.............

[look_at_g_shred]

In reference to the trade rumors the spurs have been in lately, what do you think are the chances Spurs make a move before or on deadline day?

[ace3g]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine) Weekend Dime addendum: Milwaukee now in mix for Magic's JJ Redick. Bucks, I'm told, assessing their ability to retain sharpshooter long term

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)
To meet asking price for Redick -- expiring(s) and a future first-round pick -- Bucks naturally wanna know they can retain free agent-to-be

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)
Redick did tell @RealGM (https://twitter.com/RealGM) this week that ORL has "become a home" & that he'd like to stay if Magic end up passing on all these calls coming in

[Chinook]

If I were the Magic, I'd want a player like Ilyasova in return. There's not reason to take a low draft pick for him. They might even be able to get rid of a bad contract like Davis.

Maybe something like this:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b87k8wl

And then the Magic can buy out Dalembert.

[ace3g]

old news but:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Y! Sources: Phoenix Suns pursuing a deal for New York Knicks guard Iman Shumpert. http://tinyurl.com/b8tusbm (http://t.co/5LaYDqku)

[bluebellmaniac]

What was the last trade that happened with the Spurs where rumors of the trade leaked out a week or so in advance? Isn't it the perception that if news of a potential trade leaks, the FO walks away?

[bluebellmaniac]

What was the last trade that happened with the Spurs where rumors of the trade leaked out a week or so in advance? Isn't it the perception that if news of a potential trade leaks, the FO walks away?

That said, it would be great to get an upgrade at backup PF/C for the price of any combination of SJ/Bonner/Blair/Mills/CoJo and maybe Neal.

[MaNu4Tres]

If there was truth to a possible Splitter for Jefferson deal, I see a third team being involved because Splitter just makes no sense for the Jazz because of Kanter and Favors. Hypothetically, I believe Bucks make a great third party and this proposed (long shot obv) deal makes sense to me.

Bucks get: Splitter -- Bucks get back a true big man, which they lack, to team up with Sanders for the next 3-4 years; I assume they'd lock him up obviously. They also get Jackson's expiring (Bucks don't mind getting him back for 1/2 a year because of simple economics; they are trading for the expiring, not the player.)

Jazz get: Monta Ellis -- Jazz have perhaps the worst offensive back court in the league-- Monta Ellis for 2 years helps that and opens up playing time for Kanter/ Favors. They also receive Blair (provides frontcourt depth on the bench; he'd be their 4th big) and Mills (Watson and Tinsley are arguable the 2 worst point guards in the entire league that get playing time. They have been worse than terrible, tbh. Mills gives them an upgrade at the position.

Spurs get: Al Jefferson -- Spurs get the best player of the deal; A viable option Spurs could go to offensively on the block in half court sets deep in the playoffs. Could be an underrated weapon due to Duncan and Manu's age --that age and mileage effects their efficiency/execution to a degree late in games because Pop questionably gives them the same minutes they received 8 years ago (talking playoffs, not regular season). Also, I could definitely see Spurs liking the idea of having Jefferson in the fold for the next 4 years (instead of Splitter) to team with Parker whenever Tim decides to retire.

Spurs also get L.R Mbah a Moute -- a versatile defensive player that can guard 4 positions and be a reliable/affordable and versatile SF to back up Leonard for the next 2 years. He doesn't have a great 3 point shot as of now but I could see Chip playing a role in his development in that area. He'd be an important piece because of his size/defensive ability-- which helps the Spurs match up better against the NBA's crowned favorites that is the Thunder and the Heat of Miami.

Notes: Spurs could choose to go with Dunleavy (who is having a great year for being injured in recent years) instead of Moute. Why? Going with Dunleavy would still keep Spurs under the tax and would provide the Spurs with the better offensive player that can shoot the damn ball. (What would Spurs desire at the back up 3 spot? Defense or offense? And do they want to avoid tax at any cost?). The Mbah a Moute option would put the Spurs over the tax by 556k; not sure if they'd be willing to pay the tax for him.

All in all, Spurs have a tough decision. Hypothetically with this deal, Spurs are risking their chemistry defensively and offensively right now with this proposed (long shot) trade, but in the long run I believe this trade would IMO give the Spurs a higher ceiling in the playoffs this year and the next 3-4 years, tbh. Tough decision, but since I'm a person that is in love with the long run of things, I'd have to pull the trigger.

[Paranoid Pop]

The big question mark the footspeed of big Al, he'd have to guard PFs to play with Tim and eventually even close out on shooters behind the 3 point line once in a while. It's a hard one but inside scoring and rebounding is the key vs OKC and MIA so I'd do it. He's a much better scorer than Tiago and a better rebounder, Tiago is faster on both ends but it's on D that it really makes a difference.

[Paranoid Pop]

That said, it would be great to get an upgrade at backup PF/C for the price of any combination of SJ/Bonner/Blair/Mills/CoJo and maybe Neal.

Al Jefferson is not a backup tbh.

[BackHome]

I would trade SJ, Blair, Neal but that's it.

[Russo21]

The Pistons and Wolves seem to have to many servicable Point Guards on their rosters

Pistons: Calderon, Stuckey, Bynum, Knight
Wolves: Barea, Ridnour, Rubio, Shved

Be nice to grab one of the cheaper guys (Bynum or Knight from Detroit and all the Wolves PG's are cheap though Rubio isnt going anywhere) to back Tony up. Don't see why they need 4 descent PG's on their crappy teams. Don't really know what we could offer them or what their needs are but either of those guys could help our backup PG problem, we go to shit when Tony goes to the bench these days.

Spurs backup PG's: DeColo, Joseph, Mills, Neal :bang

[ace3g]

Looks like Barbosa (knee) will be out for the year, so getting to the point where Cs will need some guard help.

[Chinook]

Looks like Barbosa (knee) will be out for the year, so getting to the point where Cs will need some guard help.

Between Blair and Neal, it seems like a deal would be there between the Spurs and Celtics. Alas, they have nothing the Spurs should want. Maybe Blair/Neal for filler plus Boston's first? I'd only do that if the pick were not completely lottery protected. Anything greater than top-10 protection seems like too big of a risk. If the Celtics don't make the playoffs this season, they're probably done for a few seasons, and that could delay the pick reward for a long time (if not just negating it altogether).

[Paranoid Pop]

Between Blair and Neal, it seems like a deal would be there between the Spurs and Celtics. Alas, they have nothing the Spurs should want. Maybe Blair/Neal for filler plus Boston's first? I'd only do that if the pick were not completely lottery protected. Anything greater than top-10 protection seems like too big of a risk. If the Celtics don't make the playoffs this season, they're probably done for a few seasons, and that could delay the pick reward for a long time (if not just negating it altogether).

I'd give them both for nothing, the pick would be a bonus but I'm not sure I see them giving up a first round pick for such a short term fix at this point where the future of the franchise is so uncertain.

I'd ask for Melo, could be nice to have two Brazilians now that we have two Aussies.

I like the Portland idea with Papanikolau as well.

Just pull the trigger on something at this point.

[pad300]

How about Shawn Marion? Said he only wants to be traded to a contender.

We can send SJax expiring + a midget or something, Cuban may like that enough to deal with us since he's all about free agency now.

This is scary. I may actually agree with Paranoid Pop on a trade proposal...

Yeah, looking at our roster, I can see 3 major weak points: third big ( I like Boris, but is he a championship caliber 3ed big?), SF depth and quality (Kawhi is good, but we only have 1 other real SF - Jackson, and he's gotten quite inconsistent PER 8.3, WP48 -0.013, 3P% 25.9%), and back-up PG.
There are players in the NBA who can do both the SF and 3ed big job - for example, Kevin Durant. What is surprising though is that there are players who we might just be able to get for SJax's expiring, to do that job. I think you have hit on one of them.
Marion is playing well this season (PER 17.2, WP48 .259, 3P% 32.6%). He's getting paid $8,646,364 (and has a ETO for $9,316,796 next year). It's hard to say if he will opt-out or not - he'll be 35 next season. As a old guy and a possible rental, you might be able to get him for Sjax's expiring and a first.
Kirilenko is another one, also playing well (PER 18.2, WP48 .269, 3P% 29.4%). He's getting paid $9,779,349 (and has a player option for $10,219,420 next year). he's very likely to opt-out IMO - he'll be 32 next season and looking for a last big contract. As a rental, you might be able to get him for Sjax's expiring and a first. I personally would go as far as 2013 and 2015 firsts - I have always loved AK's game and believe he wouldn't be a difficult re-sign.
Finally, there is one other player who might be available, and could do the job - Michael Dunleavy (PER 15.3, WP48 .164, 3P% 43,8%). He's cheap - $3,750,000 and expiring (and will be 33 next year). You can't trade SJax for him. You could trade Bonner (and I would in a heartbeat...); but what's in it for Milwaukee? I wouldn't go more than a 2013 first for a rental of Dunleavy, and Milwaukee, btb, are in a playoff spot currently, unlike Dallas (hollinger predicts only a 15.9% chance of making the playoffs) and Minnesota (hollinger predicts only a 1.3% chance of making the playoffs).

[Chinook]

How about Shawn Marion? Said he only wants to be traded to a contender.

We can send SJax expiring + a midget or something, Cuban may like that enough to deal with us since he's all about free agency now.

That's actually a really interesting trade proposal. The Spurs would have to pay a lot for him, but I think a deal could be struck without having to move a rotation player.

Something like Jack, Neal, a first, and the rights to Hanga and/or Bertans. Maybe they'd take Richards' rights instead.

Either way, I commend you on that idea. It's refreshing to be able to agree on a trade idea.

[jesterbobman]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=bz5er6a

1 type of trade that I'd look at. As constructed above, I don't think that Jazz would do it, but the idea would be to move whatever the Celtics would give up(2nd round picks later) or could put in any of the options Bruno brought up in the Blair trade thread, as well as whatever the Magic would give up to save long term money with the Afflalo contract, and some kind of asset from us(Most likely our 2013 or 2014 pick)

Or this, with Miami and the same idea of them giving an asset for Blair

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=bfga43w

Thoughts?

[pad300]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_mike_dunleavy.jpg

Mike Dunleavy | F

Born: Sep 15, 1980
Height: 6-9 / 2.06
Weight: 230 lbs. / 104.3 kg.
Prior to NBA / Country: Duke / USA
Years Pro: 10

info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_dunleavy/)

------------------------------------------------

I think that the Spurs should seriously consider Mike Dunleavy Jr. as both a trade target, as a potential cheap rental for this playoff run, and as a FA target for the summer of 2013.

Positives are that he can play 2 to 4, although typically a 3. He can shoot very well and is a good passer. As he has a strong BBall IQ, he should pick up the offense/defense scheme very quickly. I think he could have a Brent Barry level fit in the team system...

Negatives, start with he's not a major athlete, although better than some (Bonner). He's a better individual defender than Bonner, but that's not saying all that much...

He's on $3.75 million/year with the Bucks, and I think he'll get more on the open Market this summer. He's expiring and the Bucks are not going anywhere - he's available as a cheap rental in a trade. As a FA, I'm pretty sure he would be interested in a solid shot at the post-season, given how his career has bounced around crappy teams ... GSW/Post Artest Indy/Milwaukee.

As a trade proposal:

Out: Bonner, $1 Million (paid this summer, for Bonner's buyout), rights to Adam Hanga

In: Mike Dunleavy

Why for MIL: Changes an expiring into an expiring and an asset (Hanga's rights)

Why for SAS: Dunleavy is a better player than Bonner, and he might not be the total choke Bonner is (he's only played 72 minutes in the playoffs in his career, so it's hard to tell) - he's as good a shooter, a better passer, he's got far more versatility (playing 2-4, mostly 3), He can play 3 effectively, which is probably our shallowest position (Kawhi, Sjax and that it...). Eyeballs say he is as good defensively. He might even be a better rebounder - Dunleavy gets 8.8% career TR%, while Bonner get 10.8%. But Bonner plays PF, and gets better opportunities from the position, relative to Dunleavy playing mostly SF; 82Games.com shows that Dunleavy's R/48 goes up when he plays PF...

[BackHome]

Sorry yucky trade no way do I trade for him and give up rights to Hanga.....I love the other trade with Dallas kinda makes sense for both teams at this point..

[BlackSilver]

Would be ridiculous to give up Jack for Marion...a lateral move at best and you start all over with incorporating someone new. Plus Jack can already guard 4s. And Jack has more balls than anyone else come playoff time. Jack is not going to be traded unless he starts demanding an extension, which he already promised Pop not to do. No other team in the league wants him/can work with him, except maybe Boston. I think Jack realizes that by now and knows how much he loves to win at this point in his career. No losing team will want to pick him up knowing he doesn't tolerate losing and will be a headache. So, everyone kindly stop salivating over his expiring contract. It means Jack shit trade-wise.

[Chinook]

Would be ridiculous to give up Jack for Marion...a lateral move at best and you start all over with incorporating someone new. Plus Jack can already guard 4s. And Jack has more balls than anyone else come playoff time. Jack is not going to be traded unless he starts demanding an extension, which he already promised Pop not to do. No other team in the league wants him/can work with him, except maybe Boston. I think Jack realizes that by now and knows how much he loves to win at this point in his career. No losing team will want to pick him up knowing he doesn't tolerate losing and will be a headache. So, everyone kindly stop salivating over his expiring contract. It means Jack shit trade-wise.

No offense, but I pretty much disagree with everything in that post.

First, Marion is a better defender than Jack. He's also a player who has a history of stepping up on both ends in the playoffs. He and Stevenson were the ones who shut Lebron down in the finals a couple of years ago. The concern over disrupting chemistry is a real one, but that's about the only reason not to do this trade,

I don't think the Spurs care if Jack asks for an extension or not. If the Spurs trade him, it will be because they find good value for his contract. Pop loves Jack, but he loved Hill, too.

As far as teams taking Jack back, it's not nearly as big of a deal as you are trying to make it seem. You're right that Jack can be a headcase in a bad situation. But the receiving team could just buy him out or at worst waive him. I think Jack would accept a buyout, because as you said, he wants to play for a contender. If anything, that helps his trade value.

In short, Jack is VERY tradeable. Pop may not want to move him for sentimental reasons, and the Spurs may not find a good enough deal if they are willing to move him. But that's a completely different argument than one based on the idea that Jack's too toxic to trade.

[stnick2261]

I'd rather not give up the rights to Hanga as he's one of our few prospects who are actually progressing

[Seventyniner]

As far as teams taking Jack back, it's not nearly as big of a deal as you are trying to make it seem. You're right that Jack can be a headcase in a bad situation. But the receiving team could just buy him out or at worst waive him. I think Jack would accept a buyout, because as you said, he wants to play for a contender. If anything, that helps his trade value.

If the Spurs trade Jax and the other team buys him out, can you see that hurting the Spurs if Jax signs with, say, the Thunder? Would that factor into a trade decision?

[Chinook]

If the Spurs trade Jax and the other team buys him out, can you see that hurting the Spurs if Jax signs with, say, the Thunder? Would that factor into a trade decision?

It's possible. But there's not much room for Jack on most contenders. He may back up Durant in OKC, but I don't see him getting more than 5-10 minutes. He's not getting much time in Miami with James, Battier and maybe Miller (plus, the Heat don't have the roster space). He may be attractive to the Clippers if Butler or Hill get hurt. The only possible threat that could really use him would be the Grizzlies. Jack and Prince could be a really solid rotation at the three.

As far as it affecting the Spurs' willingness to trade Jack, I think it's very possible. If the Spurs think Jack could come back and be effective on another team, then they may not want to risk sending him away, AND they may still have hope of him returning to a good form for them this season. I think those two idea are linked: If the Spurs think what they'll get back for Jack is better than whatever Jack can provide to them this season, then it would probably override their fear of Jack killing them in the playoffs.

So if Marion > Jack, then why does it matter if they face Jack in the playoffs?

[DesignatedT]

League sources said last week the Raptors were told the Carlos Boozer and Nate Robinson deal for Andrea Bargnani and John Lucas III was available whenever they wanted it.

[Chinook]

^What the hell are the Raptors waiting for, then? That's about the best deal I can imagine them making at this juncture. The only reason why they'd hold off is if they intend to amnesty Bargnani.

[Mel_13]

So if Marion > Jack, then why does it matter if they face Jack in the playoffs?

The other angle to consider in a Marion/Jack trade is the effect that it would have on the summer of 2013. If Dallas can offload Marion for expiring contracts, then they're in position to sign two max free agents in the summer. Imagine a frustrated Cuban with a bunch of extra cap space and no premier FAs left on the market. Screwing the Spurs by overpaying Splitter seems like something Cuban would do.

[Chinook]

The other angle to consider in a Marion/Jack trade is the effect that it would have on the summer of 2013. If Dallas can offload Marion for expiring contracts, then they're in position to sign two max free agents in the summer. Imagine a frustrated Cuban with a bunch of extra cap space and no premier FAs left on the market. Screwing the Spurs by overpaying Splitter seems like something Cuban would do.

That's true, as well as the fact that the Spurs' cap space will pretty much be gone if they trade for him.

I don't think Cuban will spend max money on Splitter. He's willing to buy a superstar, but I think he's learned his lesson on massively overpaying player. He may want to spite the Spurs, but Dallas should be in a good draft position after this season. He could just as easily decide to rebuild. (He said in an interview last year that having a consistent .500 team was out of the question.)

I also think it's possible that Splitter gets re-signed before that the Howard/Smith market shakes out. If San Antonio offers a McGee-type of deal in July, that probably keeps Splitter from even shopping around.

[Mel_13]

That's true, as well as the fact that the Spurs' cap space will pretty much be gone if they trade for him.

I don't think Cuban will spend max money on Splitter. He's willing to buy a superstar, but I think he's learned his lesson on massively overpaying player. He may want to spite the Spurs, but Dallas should be in a good draft position after this season. He could just as easily decide to rebuild. (He said in an interview last year that having a consistent .500 team was out of the question.)

I also think it's possible that Splitter gets re-signed before that the Howard/Smith market shakes out. If San Antonio offers a McGee-type of deal in July, that probably keeps Splitter from even shopping around.

I agree that Splitter stays here, but improving Dallas' cap situation has to be a consideration in a possible Marion/Jack trade. Not the biggest factor, but it's there.

[Chinook]

I agree that Splitter stays here, but improving Dallas' cap situation has to be a consideration in a possible Marion/Jack trade. Not the biggest factor, but it's there.

Even if that's the case, if the Spurs were to think that Marion was some kind of "missing piece," then it may be worth risking Splitter signing with the Mavericks.

[Mel_13]

Even if that's the case, if the Spurs were to think that Marion was some kind of "missing piece," then it may be worth risking Splitter signing with the Mavericks.

I agree. If they believe that Marion is a difference maker, then that trumps any other considerations.

For the record, I'd trade Jack for Marion. His defense on Durant and LeBron in 2011 sold me.

[Chinook]

I agree. If they believe that Marion is a difference maker, then that trumps any other considerations.

For the record, I'd trade Jack for Marion. His defense on Durant and LeBron in 2011 sold me.

Exactly what came to my mind. I'd be willing to give up a lot of non-essential assets for him. He really could be the play the Spurs need. He, Leonard, Green and Manu would be an awesome wing rotation. The only thing I could see making them better would be a savvy veteran point-guard to back up Parker.

[CGD]

^ interesting discussion. Marion's D is appealing. It'd be nice to get something else back too for the additional year of Marion's deal and nearly 2M in additional relief Dallas would net in the deal. Not sure what though.

Does Marion have the ability to veto a trade? Or what was the basis of his threat to sit out if traded to a dud? If he can't veto a trade, I actually don't mind the idea of carrying an nicely sized expiring deal for next year. Good trade bait.

[Andthentherewas21]

^ interesting discussion. Marion's D is appealing. It'd be nice to get something else back too for the additional year of Marion's deal and nearly 2M in additional relief Dallas would net in the deal. Not sure what though.

Does Marion have the ability to veto a trade? Or what was the basis of his threat to sit out if traded to a dud? If he can't veto a trade, I actually don't mind the idea of carrying an nicely sized expiring deal for next year. Good trade bait.

I'm not sure exactly what his situation would be as far as his actual ability to block the trade. I know both Diaw and Mills can veto trades since they are on 2 year bird rights contracts (can't remember if Marion re-upped this past year and too lazy to look at the moment). But he has publicly stated he won't report to a losing team, not that the Spurs need to worry about that, but it does show that he is willing to pull a fisher if he doesn't like where he is being traded.

I think Dallas could bite if it was a strict salary dump from their perspective, but remember that jax is technically injured (broken pinky if memory serves me right), and while he is obviously still out there playing, most teams are going to use that to try and get more from the spurs or drive down his value. Could also explain his diminished performance this season.

[Chinook]

I'm not sure exactly what his situation would be as far as his actual ability to block the trade. I know both Diaw and Mills can veto trades since they are on 2 year bird rights contracts (can't remember if Marion re-upped this past year and too lazy to look at the moment). But he has publicly stated he won't report to a losing team, not that the Spurs need to worry about that, but it does show that he is willing to pull a fisher if he doesn't like where he is being traded.

I think Dallas could bite if it was a strict salary dump from their perspective, but remember that jax is technically injured (broken pinky if memory serves me right), and while he is obviously still out there playing, most teams are going to use that to try and get more from the spurs or drive down his value. Could also explain his diminished performance this season.

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/mavericks.jsp

According to Sham, Marion is still in a five-year deal, so he does NOT have veto power (and because his contract is not expiring, he wouldn't have veto power under anyway). I don't think he'd use it even if he did. He'd probably prefer the Spurs to the Mavericks.

Jack being injured isn't that big of a deal. What will drive up the price more than that would be the idea of trading with a division rival. Cuban probably would be against it unless there were a lot of sweeteners.

In general, Jack's contract is the valuable part. No one is going to trade for him for his playing ability.

[Richie]

Why would the Mavericks want to dump Marions contract? They have plenty of cap space this summer for free agents and if they do get someone like Howard, he would be a big piece for them to make a run at a title again.

[BackHome]

Howard is fools gold if he can't win games with Kobe he ain't going to win any where else. He is all hype at this point with his back problems and now shoulder problems he will decline very fast. He can still rebound but are you going to pay someone 100 million to do that?

[Mel_13]

Why would the Mavericks want to dump Marions contract? They have plenty of cap space this summer for free agents and if they do get someone like Howard, he would be a big piece for them to make a run at a title again.

If they dump Marion, they'll approach the amount of room needed to sign two max free agents.

[Richie]

If Mavs are open to moving Marion, I hope we get involved with both them and the Hawks

Smith to Mavs
Marion to Spurs
Danny Green, Bonner, OJ Mayo, Spurs 1st, Mavs 2nd to Hawks

Off season we re sign Splitter, Manu, Jack and have the MLE for a big man, perhaps Brand or Kaman. A wing rotation of Kawhi/Manu/Jackson/Marion is elite defensively, and even playing 'small ball' we won't sacrifice a lot of rebounding with Marion and Kawhi both on the floor.

Mavs can re sign Smith and a max free agent, we get better, Hawks get some good young talent and a couple picks.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If Mavs are open to moving Marion, I hope we get involved with both them and the Hawks

Smith to Mavs
Marion to Spurs
Danny Green, Bonner, OJ Mayo, Spurs 1st, Mavs 2nd to Hawks

Off season we re sign Splitter, Manu, Jack and have the MLE for a big man, perhaps Brand or Kaman. A wing rotation of Kawhi/Manu/Jackson/Marion is elite defensively, and even playing 'small ball' we won't sacrifice a lot of rebounding with Marion and Kawhi both on the floor.

Mavs can re sign Smith and a max free agent, we get better, Hawks get some good young talent and a couple picks.

It's not a bad trade, but Atlanta will not take both Mayo and Green. I also think Josh Smith will end up at the Mavs one way or another. Bonner, I don't think will be traded before draft night.

[Chinook]

If Mavs are open to moving Marion, I hope we get involved with both them and the Hawks

Smith to Mavs
Marion to Spurs
Danny Green, Bonner, OJ Mayo, Spurs 1st, Mavs 2nd to Hawks

Off season we re sign Splitter, Manu, Jack and have the MLE for a big man, perhaps Brand or Kaman. A wing rotation of Kawhi/Manu/Jackson/Marion is elite defensively, and even playing 'small ball' we won't sacrifice a lot of rebounding with Marion and Kawhi both on the floor.

Mavs can re sign Smith and a max free agent, we get better, Hawks get some good young talent and a couple picks.

I'd never do that trade if I'm the Spurs. If I'm giving up the most assets, I expect to get the best player. No way do I trade Green, Bonner's semi-expiring and a first just so the Mavericks can land one of their "superstars." Also, it's absolutely pointless to have Leonard, Jack and Marion. One of them will have to play the two far more than they should. I don't think the Spurs get stronger with this trade.

[Richie]

I'd never do that trade if I'm the Spurs. If I'm giving up the most assets, I expect to get the best player. No way do I trade Green, Bonner's semi-expiring and a first just so the Mavericks can land one of their "superstars." Also, it's absolutely pointless to have Leonard, Jack and Marion. One of them will have to play the two far more than they should. I don't think the Spurs get stronger with this trade.

All 3 can play and defend the 2 at least as well as Green, the Spurs get better and more versatile as Marion can guard any number of positions.

Green is the only asset with value we're giving up. Bonner isn't in the rotation and is filler for salary, and a #30 is pretty much a crapshoot. Whoever we pick, them almost certainly won't be in the rotation before Duncan retires.

[Chinook]

All 3 can play and defend the 2 at least as well as Green, the Spurs get better and more versatile as Marion can guard any number of positions.

Green is the only asset with value we're giving up. Bonner isn't in the rotation and is filler for salary, and a #30 is pretty much a crapshoot. Whoever we pick, them almost certainly won't be in the rotation before Duncan retires.

Jack and Marion are not great at guarding fast wings, and are surely not great at guarding points. We shouldn't think that just because Jack did a good job on Harden once. In reality, Jack and Marion are combo-forwards now. Leonard is a combo-forward as well, but I would agree that he has the ability to defend most twos. The Spurs would feel the loss of Green more than the loss of Jack (provided he was replaced with Marion), for sure. If you think there's a way to move Jack for another two-guard, then that's a different story.

Yes, Bonner's deal is an asset, just like Jack's deal is an asset. I for one hope that the Spurs will find a good deal for the contract during the draft. And late firsts are only really a crapshoot if you have a bad scouting staff. For the Spurs, they always seem to find talent late in the first. Parker, Udrih, Mahinmi, Splitter, Hill (now Leonard) and Joseph are all of the bottom-five first-round selections of the Spurs over the last dozen or so years. They are all productive players. That's not counting Salmons and Barbosa, because I don;t know if the Spurs would have picked them for themselves.

So in my mind, giving up Green and what could easily become a player like Derrick Williams (Bonner and the first will probably be enough for him if he's still on the Wolves) is a lot to give up for a redundant player. I love the idea of trading for Marion, but under no circumstances would I want Jack to not be part of the out-going package.

[Richie]

Jack and Marion are not great at guarding fast wings, and are surely not great at guarding points. We shouldn't think that just because Jack did a good job on Harden once. In reality, Jack and Marion are combo-forwards now. Leonard is a combo-forward as well, but I would agree that he has the ability to defend most twos. The Spurs would feel the loss of Green more than the loss of Jack (provided he was replaced with Marion), for sure. If you think there's a way to move Jack for another two-guard, then that's a different story.

Yes, Bonner's deal is an asset, just like Jack's deal is an asset. I for one hope that the Spurs will find a good deal for the contract during the draft. And late firsts are only really a crapshoot if you have a bad scouting staff. For the Spurs, they always seem to find talent late in the first. Parker, Udrih, Mahinmi, Splitter, Hill (now Leonard) and Joseph are all of the bottom-five first-round selections of the Spurs over the last dozen or so years. They are all productive players. That's not counting Salmons and Barbosa, because I don;t know if the Spurs would have picked them for themselves.

So in my mind, giving up Green and what could easily become a player like Derrick Williams (Bonner and the first will probably be enough for him if he's still on the Wolves) is a lot to give up for a redundant player. I love the idea of trading for Marion, but under no circumstances would I want Jack to not be part of the out-going package.

Bonner and a 1st is not enough for Williams. Please get out of dream land, they aren't going to trade a their #2 pick just two years later for basically nothing. If they were willing to trade him, they could get much more for him.

As for your points, I'm not saying Jackson and Marion could guard point guards, and they don't have to. This trade would have no effect on our point guard rotation. Marion can defend 2 guards in the league, but if this trade happened then Kawhi would play some at the 2. Of course, remember we have a guy named Manu to play significant minutes when it counts in the playoffs, so Kawhi would only need to play a handful of minutes at the 2. We also have Neal who can play there if we need.

I agree it would be better to trade Jackson straight up for Marion, but in terms of my trade with the Hawks and Mavs, Atlanta would have no interest in him.

The beauty of a trade that gives us Jackson, Kawhi AND Marion is that it gives us 3 guys who can defend (as best they can) the two best players in the league, Durant and Lebron. Green can't guard either of them, which makes him less valuable.

As for your comment about the late pick, I have two comment. First, none of them were #30. A few picks earlier can make all the difference. Second, Parker was the only one who played a significant role as a rookie, and he was pretty much a total fluke. Splitter and Mahinmi didn't come to the NBA for years after they were drafted, Joseph has barely played in two years, and Hill and Beno averaged 16 and 14 minutes their rookie seasons. We have 2 seasons to win a title, and a #30 pick won't help in those two years.

[Chinook]

Bonner and a 1st is not enough for Williams. Please get out of dream land, they aren't going to trade a their #2 pick just two years later for basically nothing. If they were willing to trade him, they could get much more for him.

As for your points, I'm not saying Jackson and Marion could guard point guards, and they don't have to. This trade would have no effect on our point guard rotation. Marion can defend 2 guards in the league, but if this trade happened then Kawhi would play some at the 2. Of course, remember we have a guy named Manu to play significant minutes when it counts in the playoffs, so Kawhi would only need to play a handful of minutes at the 2. We also have Neal who can play there if we need.

I agree it would be better to trade Jackson straight up for Marion, but in terms of my trade with the Hawks and Mavs, Atlanta would have no interest in him.

The beauty of a trade that gives us Jackson, Kawhi AND Marion is that it gives us 3 guys who can defend (as best they can) the two best players in the league, Durant and Lebron. Green can't guard either of them, which makes him less valuable.

As for your comment about the late pick, I have two comment. First, none of them were #30. A few picks earlier can make all the difference. Second, Parker was the only one who played a significant role as a rookie, and he was pretty much a total fluke. Splitter and Mahinmi didn't come to the NBA for years after they were drafted, Joseph has barely played in two years, and Hill and Beno averaged 16 and 14 minutes their rookie seasons. We have 2 seasons to win a title, and a #30 pick won't help in those two years.

Over all we'll just agree to disagree. Williams' value really isn't that high. On draft night, it's very likely he'll just be dumped. $5 Million is too much to pay a player that you don't want in your rotation. Also, he apparently isn't even good enough to get back J.J Reddick without having a pick thrown in. So Bonner, cash (to cover the buyout) and 2013 and 2014 firsts should be more than enough.

Green is probably the second-best point-guard defender on the team. Parker needs someone to whom he can switch off elite guards at times so that he doesn't have to play too much on both ends of the court. That is a big reason why Green won the starting job in the first place. Plus, players like Bledsoe and Reggie Jackson are slated to be part of two-point sets for their teams, so there needs to be someone who can guard them.

Marion, Jack and Leonard are all players to guard Durant and James, but there's little reason to have three of those players on the team. If two players get into foul trouble guarding a wing in one game, your team has just lost anyway. Manu will be playing his usual limited minutes, and without Green, Ginobili may have to play more than he should in the playoffs.

Parker was the 28th pick, which was as low as you could go in the first round back then. It's not like Bulls or Wizards were big threats to take him afterwards. In every draft there are players who are taken in the top of the second round who end up being good, so no, I don't think it's a good argument to say that the 30th pick is somehow terrible compared to 26-29. As for going all in for next season, I don't know if that the Spurs' strategy at this point. They've been trying to add young talent a lot recently.

Once again, though, my biggest issue is that the Spurs give up the most to get back the least. It's clear that the Mavericks get back the best player while clearing even more cap space while the Hawks get everything they want for Smith, the bulk of which is coming from San Antonio. Mayo isn't a good piece in the deal because the Hawks would be in a catch-22 with his contract: either he players well and the Hawks want to keep him and he opts out (meaning the value of having him on the cheap is gone), or he plays poorly, he opts in and the Hawks lose cap space. With Mayo AND Green on the books, the Hawks lose more than $8 Million for July.

So if the Hawks love Green and want cap space, why don't the Spurs just trade Jack, Green and sweeteners for Smith and skip the middleman?

[Richie]

Over all we'll just agree to disagree. Williams' value really isn't that high. On draft night, it's very likely he'll just be dumped. $5 Million is too much to pay a player that you don't want in your rotation. Also, he apparently isn't even good enough to get back J.J Reddick without having a pick thrown in. So Bonner, cash (to cover the buyout) and 2013 and 2014 firsts should be more than enough.

JJ Reddick is very highly coveted this summer, the Magic should be able to get a lot for him. There is a lot in between JJ Reddick and Spurs 2013 and 2014 picks for someone else to bid. I don't watch a huge amount of Twolves games, but Williams has played 25+ minutes 5 times in the 8 games in February, and is averaging 20 mins this season. It's not like he's rotting at the end of the Pups bench.


Green is probably the second-best point-guard defender on the team. Parker needs someone to whom he can switch off elite guards at times so that he doesn't have to play too much on both ends of the court. That is a big reason why Green won the starting job in the first place. Plus, players like Bledsoe and Reggie Jackson are slated to be part of two-point sets for their teams, so there needs to be someone who can guard them.

I disagree that Green is the 2nd best point guard defender, I'd definitely put Leonard ahead of him. Leonard could easily fill in Danny Greens role while Manu is on the bench and give Tony rest minutes against the top point guards, although Tony is going to have to carry a heavy load on both ends of the floor for us to get anywhere. He's still only 30, no reason to think he can't.


Marion, Jack and Leonard are all players to guard Durant and James, but there's little reason to have three of those players on the team. If two players get into foul trouble guarding a wing in one game, your team has just lost anyway. Manu will be playing his usual limited minutes, and without Green, Ginobili may have to play more than he should in the playoffs.

Bearing in mind that we will almost certainly have to play significant minutes in a small ball lineup to match the Heat and Thunder, it makes this trade look even better. If it was Marion/Kawhi/Jax all sharing minutes at the 3 I would probably agree with you, but if we trade Green then Kawhi will play minutes at the 2 while Manu is on the bench, and all three of them will be covering the 3 and 4 when we inevitably have to go small.

I also don't know what you mean by Ginobili playing more than he should in the playoffs. If Manu can't manage 20 games of 34 minutes/night without any back2backs then he should retire. The fact is he gets rest all season specifically so we can rely on him to play 'big' minutes in the playoffs. Kawhi can split the remaining minutes at the 2 with Neal and then play minutes at 3 and 4 with Marion/Jack.


Parker was the 28th pick, which was as low as you could go in the first round back then. It's not like Bulls or Wizards were big threats to take him afterwards. In every draft there are players who are taken in the top of the second round who end up being good, so no, I don't think it's a good argument to say that the 30th pick is somehow terrible compared to 26-29. As for going all in for next season, I don't know if that the Spurs' strategy at this point. They've been trying to add young talent a lot recently.

If they aren't going all in to win with Duncan, they're fools. I actually think they are, since the traded away a 1st to get Jackson and dump Jeffersons contract.

Sure there's almost always one or two decent players taken in the late first/early second, but the scarcity shows how much of a crapshoot it is. They are very rarely difference-makers, and if they turn out to be then it is normally after years of development. We don't have those years.


Once again, though, my biggest issue is that the Spurs give up the most to get back the least. It's clear that the Mavericks get back the best player while clearing even more cap space while the Hawks get everything they want for Smith, the bulk of which is coming from San Antonio. Mayo isn't a good piece in the deal because the Hawks would be in a catch-22 with his contract: either he players well and the Hawks want to keep him and he opts out (meaning the value of having him on the cheap is gone), or he plays poorly, he opts in and the Hawks lose cap space. With Mayo AND Green on the books, the Hawks lose more than $8 Million for July.

So if the Hawks love Green and want cap space, why don't the Spurs just trade Jack, Green and sweeteners for Smith and skip the middleman?

I disagree completely that we are giving up the most. Marion + Mayo + #42 is much more valuable that Bonner + Green + #30. Neither pick is worth a whole lot, just sweetener really, the only thing we're giving up that is of real value to the Spurs is Green. It's not far off being a Green for Marion trade, with Bonner being used as salary filler and a pick which will almost certainly do nothing to help us in the next 2 years.

I disagree Mayo isn't a good piece, because he hasn't played anywhere near good enough this year to make it worth opting out. Even if he plays well for the Hawks in the remaining 30 games, I don't see what he's done this year to get him a bigger deal. That part is a gamble though, but I don't think the risk is as high as you make out.

[Chinook]

As I said, we'll agree to disagree. I think the Spurs get worse with that deal. I only take back Marion if I can get rid of Jack.

[FireMicoHalili]

If Mavs are open to moving Marion, I hope we get involved with both them and the Hawks

Smith to Mavs
Marion to Spurs
Danny Green, Bonner, OJ Mayo, Spurs 1st, Mavs 2nd to Hawks

Off season we re sign Splitter, Manu, Jack and have the MLE for a big man, perhaps Brand or Kaman. A wing rotation of Kawhi/Manu/Jackson/Marion is elite defensively, and even playing 'small ball' we won't sacrifice a lot of rebounding with Marion and Kawhi both on the floor.

Mavs can re sign Smith and a max free agent, we get better, Hawks get some good young talent and a couple picks.

Wag kang tanga pare

[look_at_g_shred]

Marion lol

[Seventyniner]

Time for this thread to go dormant again.

[Chinook]

Time for this thread to go dormant again.

Yeah, it was a good run. We'll get back into it as teams get eliminated in the playoffs. Bonner's deal is still on the books, so a draft-night trade remains my pet pipe dream.

The best thing about all this is that there will be no more trade-machine threads on the main board for some time.

[venitian navigator]

Looks like the Celtics could decide to refound.
In this case they'll try to trade Pierce and Garnett, possibly for salary cap exceptions.
Considering that next year we'll start the season well under the cap, any chance we could absorb kg salary? we are maybe the only truly contender team with such chance...
I know he's not best friend with td and that his salary commands 12 millions for next year, but it's also true that he still has shown he still has enough game to be still considered one of the top nba bigs in a limited amount of time, and that we are the best team for giving him exactly the amoun t of minutes he needs to be productive without losing his energies...(and, more than all, he and td are a two big threat made in heaven).

[exstatic]

Looks like the Celtics could decide to refound.
In this case they'll try to trade Pierce and Garnett, possibly for salary cap exceptions.
Considering that next year we'll start the season well under the cap, any chance we could absorb kg salary? we are maybe the only truly contender team with such chance...
I know he's not best friend with td and that his salary commands 12 millions for next year, but it's also true that he still has shown he still has enough game to be still considered one of the top nba bigs in a limited amount of time, and that we are the best team for giving him exactly the amoun t of minutes he needs to be productive without losing his energies...(and, more than all, he and td are a two big threat made in heaven).

KG is broken. He's done. He could barely answer the bell for Boston this year, which is why they are rebuilding.

[Richie]

KG and Pierce will likely retire in Boston. If they do get traded, it will be for young pieces and picks which the Spurs don't have.

[3 Legged Dog]

Trade Danny Green and the 28th pick to move way up in the draft.

i am not sold on Danny Green. He showed his true colors when the trophy was there for the taking. That and the fact that we have a starting 2 and 3 neither of whom is really very good at dribble penetration. This puts an insane amount of pressure on Tony and Manu to be our only two guys who can dribble penetrate. And since Manu has seemingly lost what little common sense and muscular control he ever had, we really only have one trustable dribbler. That's just not enough.

since Kawhi is here to stay... And Danny is ball less when it matters....... Danny's gotta go

[Chinook]

^ Damn, we've found Paranoid Pop (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=29467)'s successor, everyone.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Trade Danny Green and the 28th pick to move way up in the draft.

i am not sold on Danny Green. He showed his true colors when the trophy was there for the taking. That and the fact that we have a starting 2 and 3 neither of whom is really very good at dribble penetration. This puts an insane amount of pressure on Tony and Manu to be our only two guys who can dribble penetrate. And since Manu has seemingly lost what little common sense and muscular control he ever had, we really only have one trustable dribbler. That's just not enough.

since Kawhi is here to stay... And Danny is ball less when it matters....... Danny's gotta go

i dont know if i trust cojo and decolo. but they seem capable. i'm not down with trade danny talk. i think he's proved his worth, just as well as splitter. trading up for a ball handler and loosing green... that'd be pretty steep.

[bluebellmaniac]

^ Damn, we've found Paranoid Pop (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=29467)'s successor, everyone.

+1

[Captivus]

Lets hope the Spurs dont "lose" players and trade them before that happen.

[Atl Spur]

Green doesn't have the heart/competivness; trade now why his value is highest.

[TD 21]

With Rivers going to the Clippers, the league not allowing Garnett (who supposedly wants to play one more season) to join him, Pierce highly likely to be traded by the end of the month and the Celtics clearly beginning a re-build, or at the very least, a re-load, if I'm the Spurs, I call up the Celtics and offer Diaw (after he inevitably opts in . . . Bonner wouldn't work, because they have to make a decision on him the day before their cap space comes into effect) and a future 1st for Garnett.

I realize it's probably a long shot to convince him to waive his no trade, but it's worth a shot. They can have Pop and Duncan (I think he'd be on board) sell him on taking 1-2 final shots at a championship, potentially having another crack at the hated Heat and being able to go back to playing his natural position.

[Chinook]

With Rivers going to the Clippers, the league not allowing Garnett (who supposedly wants to play one more season) to join him, Pierce highly likely to be traded by the end of the month and the Celtics clearly beginning a re-build, or at the very least, a re-load, if I'm the Spurs, I call up the Celtics and offer Diaw (after he inevitably opts in . . . Bonner wouldn't work, because they have to make a decision on him the day before their cap space comes into effect) and a future 1st for Garnett.

I realize it's probably a long shot to convince him to waive his no trade, but it's worth a shot. They can have Pop and Duncan (I think he'd be on board) sell him on taking 1-2 final shots at a championship, potentially having another crack at the hated Heat and being able to go back to playing his natural position.

Why not a sign-and-trade with Splitter? It doesn't make a lot of sense to keep him instead of Diaw. Or the Spurs can just offer Diaw and Bonner on draft night.

[TD 21]

Why not a sign-and-trade with Splitter? It doesn't make a lot of sense to keep him instead of Diaw. Or the Spurs can just offer Diaw and Bonner on draft night.

Because it's not necessary to give up an asset of that caliber (and how doesn't it make sense to keep him instead of Diaw?). Let's say he's talked into the Spurs and will only waive his no trade for them. The Celtics can either get another future 1st, shed more salary and do right by a guy who helped to restore their brand, or they can do none of those things and have him end his career playing for an irrelevant team.

[Chinook]

Because it's not necessary to give up an asset of that caliber (and how doesn't it make sense to keep him instead of Diaw?). Let's say he's talked into the Spurs and will only waive his no trade for them. The Celtics can either get another future 1st, shed more salary and do right by a guy who helped to restore their brand, or they can do none of those things and have him end his career playing for an irrelevant team.

One reason it's not good to have Duncan, Splitter and Garnet is because of the salary that's locked up among the three of them. Also, getting rid of Diaw takes away a lot of spacing and mobility. Also, Splitter would probably be appealing enough to them to make the deal. The team isn't that desperate to get compensation, seeing as they turned down Jordan for him. They also don't have to worry that much about him costing them money and impeding their rebuilding, since Garnet said he'd retire if Doc and Pierce leave.

But all that notwithstanding, Bonner and Diaw plus a first would work for salaries, and doing that during the draft would probably be better than doing a Diaw and first for him in the off-season.

[Baam]

Boris is much better than Tiago ffs.

[Russo21]

1. Parker for Garnett 2. Manu for Varejao & Tristan Thompson 3. Splitter and BonBon for a half descent PG who is on the market

[look_at_g_shred]

Any chance we could trade for LaMarcus Aldridge? If so. what would we have to give up, and 2, how much salary would we need to take back?

[DesignatedT]

1. Parker for Garnett 2. Manu for Varejao & Tristan Thompson 3. Splitter and BonBon for a half descent PG who is on the market

lol

[Chinook]

Any chance we could trade for LaMarcus Aldridge? If so. what would we have to give up, and 2, how much salary would we need to take back?

Portland did try to move him at the deadline. I imagine it would take something like Splitter and Green/Neal+picks. If the Spurs trade for him using Splitter, they should be able to take Aldridge back without having to send back any more salary, provided Ginobili agrees to a new deal beforehand.

[TD 21]

One reason it's not good to have Duncan, Splitter and Garnet is because of the salary that's locked up among the three of them.

It would only be for 1-2 seasons . . . and who cares? They'd have the best big rotation in the league.


Also, getting rid of Diaw takes away a lot of spacing and mobility.

Diaw is left unguarded at the 3-point line most of the time and Garnett is a far better mid range shooter. Stretch fours are useful, no question, but they're not must haves. The majority of the best teams in the league don't have one. As far as mobility, obviously Garnett isn't as swift as he once was, but he's not a plodder either.


Also, Splitter would probably be appealing enough to them to make the deal. The team isn't that desperate to get compensation, seeing as they turned down Jordan for him. They also don't have to worry that much about him costing them money and impeding their rebuilding, since Garnet said he'd retire if Doc and Pierce leave.

With Rivers gone and Pierce on the way out, I'd imagine they'll be a discussion or whether or not Garnett wants a trade to a team of his choosing or not, since he apparently wants to play one more season. Presuming he picked the Spurs or the Spurs talked him into it, they would take what they can get.


But all that notwithstanding, Bonner and Diaw plus a first would work for salaries, and doing that during the draft would probably be better than doing a Diaw and first for him in the off-season.

Fair enough. I don't disagree with you; ideally, it would be nice to salvage one of Diaw or Bonner, since the top three bigs would be C's (I still consider Garnett more of a PF, but he's obviously C-sized) and lack three-point range. But if that was what it took to make this happen, I'd do it in the blink of an eye. It's a lot easier to replace them than it is to find a Garnett.

[spursince#99]

I want L.A

[DesignatedT]

I'd trade Splitter and Green for Aldridge.

[yavozerb]

I'd trade Splitter and Green for Aldridge.

Im sure you and a million other spurs fan would do that in a heartbeat. Fun to dream though...

[Chinook]

Im sure you and a million other spurs fan would do that in a heartbeat. Fun to dream though...

I don't think it's that far-fetched. The way the Blazers supposedly shopped him last season, I'd say the chances of him getting moved are pretty good if the team can get back a legitimate big on a smaller deal. Splitter would qualify, and if it weren't the Spurs, Tiago and picks would probably be enough. But Portland would probably demand another guard from the team.

[Chinook]

It would only be for 1-2 seasons . . . and who cares? They'd have the best big rotation in the league.

I could see it, but I don't know. That's about half the cap locked up in three players who will never all see the floor together. I think the rotation could work, so long as Garnett is still able to guard the PnR. Don't underestimate the benefit of Diaw's mobility. He was great at guarding on switches in the Golden State series.


With Rivers gone and Pierce on the way out, I'd imagine they'll be a discussion or whether or not Garnett wants a trade to a team of his choosing or not, since he apparently wants to play one more season. Presuming he picked the Spurs or the Spurs talked him into it, they would take what they can get.

True, but if Garnett retires at forgoes his entire salary (like Kidd did, although that's rare), then the Celtics may think it better to just let him go and save money rather than taking on another pick and paying $5 Million. It could really depend on if they like whomever falls to the Spurs' pick.


But all that notwithstanding, Bonner and Diaw plus a first would work for salaries, and doing that during the draft would probably be better than doing a Diaw and first for him in the off-season.

Funnily enough, I was wrong. Garnett makes about a million more than I thought he did, and that makes his contract to big to match with Diaw and Bonner. If Bonner agrees to extend his deadline like some have suggested, then that would allow a Diaw and Bonner for Garnett deal to happen when the trade rules reset. While that might not seem worth it, since the Spurs will have cap space by that time anyway, it would allow the team to use cap space, THEN make the trade. So I'd prefer that.

[TD 21]

I could see it, but I don't know. That's about half the cap locked up in three players who will never all see the floor together. I think the rotation could work, so long as Garnett is still able to guard the PnR. Don't underestimate the benefit of Diaw's mobility. He was great at guarding on switches in the Golden State series.

Of course it would work. You're over thinking this . . . and yes, Garnett can still defend the pick-and-roll.


True, but if Garnett retires at forgoes his entire salary (like Kidd did, although that's rare), then the Celtics may think it better to just let him go and save money rather than taking on another pick and paying $5 Million. It could really depend on if they like whomever falls to the Spurs' pick.

According to Wojnarowski, he wants to play one more season.


Funnily enough, I was wrong. Garnett makes about a million more than I thought he did, and that makes his contract to big to match with Diaw and Bonner. If Bonner agrees to extend his deadline like some have suggested, then that would allow a Diaw and Bonner for Garnett deal to happen when the trade rules reset. While that might not seem worth it, since the Spurs will have cap space by that time anyway, it would allow the team to use cap space, THEN make the trade. So I'd prefer that.

If Bonner would agree to extend his contract past the deadline, then they could offer him, along with the 1st and keep Diaw. If Bonner wouldn't agree (hard to imagine, since it is essentially home), then just replace him with Diaw and retain him.

[Chinook]

Of course it would work. You're over thinking this . . . and yes, Garnett can still defend the pick-and-roll.



According to Wojnarowski, he wants to play one more season.



If Bonner would agree to extend his contract past the deadline, then they could offer him, along with the 1st and keep Diaw. If Bonner wouldn't agree (hard to imagine, since it is essentially home), then just replace him with Diaw and retain him.

Keeping Bonner takes away about $3 Million of the estimated cap space the team has. Keeping him and Splitter means that Ginobili HAS to take the room exception have the space to get Garnett. It's pretty unlikely that the team will have the space for Garnett unless Bonner's off the team in some fashion. If they waive him, then they can just trade Diaw for KG, but they'd lose their cap space. If they keep him to trade to Boston along with Diaw, then not only would the team have space to absorb Garnett's salary, but they would also be able to use that space on another player and STILL make the trade.

More importantly, keeping Bonner will almost certainly mean the team is choosing to stay over the cap this summer, which means they'll have to match salaries on any trade.

[TD 21]

Keeping Bonner takes away about $3 Million of the estimated cap space the team has. Keeping him and Splitter means that Ginobili HAS to take the room exception have the space to get Garnett. It's pretty unlikely that the team will have the space for Garnett unless Bonner's off the team in some fashion. If they waive him, then they can just trade Diaw for KG, but they'd lose their cap space. If they keep him to trade to Boston along with Diaw, then not only would the team have space to absorb Garnett's salary, but they would also be able to use that space on another player and STILL make the trade.

More importantly, keeping Bonner will almost certainly mean the team is choosing to stay over the cap this summer, which means they'll have to match salaries on any trade.

Fair enough. Like I said, I'd like to keep one, especially Diaw, but if both have to go, so be it.

[Chinook]

And Bruno , can we get an Aldridge trade thread? He was rumored to be on the move before the deadline, so I think it'd be relevant.

[SpursSerb]

I dont get why would the Blazers trade Aldridge?

[Chinook]

I dont get why would the Blazers trade Aldridge?

They think he's too injury prone and is already on the old side for their youth movement. He's also getting paid $15 Million+ the next two seasons, and his production doesn't really match is pay.

That all being said, he's a tremendous offensive big who can play both positions. He's also young enough to have a good seven or so years in the league. But he's not really a building block anymore. In a vacuum, I'd take Evans over him, but LA is a better big than Millsap, and if the Spurs were going to lose Tiago anyway, they may as well get back an All-Star big for him.

[Knoxxx]

Let's hope the Blazers are this dumb and desperate for a salary dump. Manu needs to play for the love of the game (not money) or retire. That means the cap exception unless we happen to have more $.

Someone figure out how we can have money to sign a replacement two guard should Green be required in this deal.

[CGD]

Starting to think Tiago will get a deal starting at 10m a year. Between Atlanta, Dallas, and Portland teams will offer him north of 9m to ward off the Spurs and the spurs may be afraid to match. I'm starting to think a sign and trade may be the way to go.

[Andthentherewas21]

Starting to think Tiago will get a deal starting at 10m a year. Between Atlanta, Dallas, and Portland teams will offer him north of 9m to ward off the Spurs and the spurs may be afraid to match. I'm starting to think a sign and trade may be the way to go.

Splitter will get at least $10 million just because hes a legit two way 7 footer in a league with too few of them left. Look what Asik got last summer and he is pretty much considered a defensive big. Chances are a sign and trade is going to make the most sense or the Spurs are going to have to overpay him.

That being said, I don't really know who they could sign and trade him for given most teams that are going to be trading for him won't have any big the Spurs want back, and they don't really need any help on the wings unless they are planning to change things up quite a bit. I understand where Chinook is coming given this past trade deadline and suggesting the S&T with Alridge but I don't see it. It just doesn't make sense to go after Pek or Splitter given they are both roughly the same age as Alridge (Pek is a year younger) and then turn around and trade him, especially when both would allow him to be a full-time 4 and operate more on the perimeter which he supposedly prefers to working on the block.

Mind you they could be thinking next season is the one to tank and get a high pick to pair with Lillard, but then why try to sign Splitter/Pek?

[DesignatedT]

I would not give Splitter 10M/yr. If we are willing to give him that and over pay for him then we might as well go overpay one of the other marquee FA's.

For the record, I don't think Splitter will sign for that much. I think he likes the bein a Spur and will agree on a reasonable contract around 7M/yr.

[DesignatedT]

The Sacramento Kings are looking to acquire a second first-round pick and are using guard Jimmer Fredette as bait. Sources say the Kings have reached out to a number of teams in the mid-to-late first round in an attempt to secure another pick. Both the Indiana Pacers and Utah Jazz are potential destinations for Jimmer. Kings coach Mike Malone is enamored with both Tim Hardaway Jr. and Tony Snell, but the Kings feel that they can get them much lower in the draft.

[Chinook]

Freddette and 36 for Bonner and 28? Not my first preference, but that could be a fair deal.

[DesignatedT]

Jimmer is pretty interesting. He's shot the ball well (one thing that usually translates well) but he's been as bad as advertised defensively for Sacramento. Still hard to take his time there into account too much though. Can't be easy playing there.

[Chinook]

He wouldn't be a bad Neal replacement. He doesn't assist well enough to be an actual point-guard, but he shoots lights out. I'd take him over Redick, but that's not saying much for me.

[Baam]

Would be funny to have Jimmer and Kawhi on the same team. I like the idea.

[Captivus]

I'd trade Splitter and Green for Aldridge.

I wouldnt trade Green, at $4m for the next 2 years I will keep him. He is a starter, defends well and can score.

[Kineto]

Indiana is shopping Gerald Green + 23th pick.

Spurs have cap space, and need a backup 3. Could be a good way to fill à void and jump in the draft ?
If I remember well, he is related to Dany No ?

[look_at_g_shred]

Bruno, can you make a thread for Free Agent Target J.R Smith? Thanks.

[spursince#99]

Indiana is shopping Gerald Green + 23th pick.

Spurs have cap space, and need a backup 3. Could be a good way to fill à void and jump in the draft ?
If I remember well, he is related to Dany No ?


link? I would jump on that deal in seconds.

[Bruno]

Bruno, can you make a thread for Free Agent Target J.R Smith? Thanks.

There is still one. You can find it easily by using the sticky index threads.

[look_at_g_shred]

There is still one. You can find it easily by using the sticky index threads.

Thanks.

[ace3g]

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA
(http://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA)Source confirms talks between L.A. and ORL are Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler for Arron Afflalo, Andrew Nicholson and possibly a future pick.

[DesignatedT]

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA 2m
If you missed it, Cleveland offered the top pick, Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters to Minnesota for Kevin Love: http://tinyurl.com/q7hmbwd
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Wow. This is like video game style.

[spursince#99]

Wow. This is like video game style.


indeed :lol something I would've came up with.

[Chinook]

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA
(http://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA)Source confirms talks between L.A. and ORL are Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler for Arron Afflalo, Andrew Nicholson and possibly a future pick.




I hate that deal for Orlando. Bledsoe and Bulter for Afflalo was good. Maybe add in a future first or high second. There's no need to try to add more. Bledsoe is not that good, and he's definitely not a building block with his expiring deal.

[Andthentherewas21]

I hate that deal for Orlando. Bledsoe and Bulter for Afflalo was good. Maybe add in a future first or high second. There's no need to try to add more. Bledsoe is not that good, and he's definitely not a building block with his expiring deal.

I really don't get it either. I could understand maybe a future pick or Nicholson but don't get why they would agree to both, especially given they are taking on Butler.

[Kineto]

link? I would jump on that deal in seconds.



In addition to the Pacers' Jimmer discussions, sources say Indiana has made the No. 23 pick available in hopes that an interested party would be willing to take on the contract of Gerald Green for the right to acquire Indy's pick.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/60257/flurry-of-trade-talks-surrounding-draft

[DesignatedT]

The Sacramento Kings are receiving calls about guard Jimmer Fredette. Word around the league is the Kings are seeking a mid-to-late pick in the first round.


• The Brooklyn Nets and Minnesota Timberwolves are “close” on a deal that would send Nets guard MarShon Brooks to the Timberwolves for the 26th pick, multiple sources said.



• The Cavs supposedly are offering their No. 19 pick for Robinson. They believe a draft-night deal consisting of their two second-rounders (Nos. 31 and 33) will be enough for them to land forward Shawn Marion and the 13th pick from Dallas, sources said.

LINK (http://www.foxsportsohio.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/story/NBA-Report-Cavs-enter-draft-with-multipl?blockID=915407&feedID=3725)

[Chinook]

I think that combination of deals would be good for Cleveland. They get three contributors for three picks and cap space. I also think it's a pretty good deal for Dallas, too. Second-rounders could be pretty good if they can be used to bring in some international players.

[DPG21920]

Well, I guess the 13th pick is enough to take on Marion. He's still playing well and you very well might be able to trade him as an expiring contract too. I still don't get giving up the 19th pick for Thomas Robinson unless you are very high on him. Just eating his contract and sending back a TE should have been enough. Steal for HOU if they pull that off (assuming they land Dwight and Robinson doesn't blow up into a stud).

[macdude06]

Seems like Deandre Jordan is being made available. Could we have any interest?

[DesignatedT]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m
Boston and Brooklyn discussing a blockbuster deal that would send Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Possible Nets package includes expiring deal of Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Tomike Shenglia and three first-round picks, sources tell Y!

[yavozerb]

Damn, Boston is in a bad bad spot right now..Aging players they want to move with only above average teams interested with low picks. Cannot wait to see Rondo after losing 40+ games next season..

[Captivus]

Damn, Boston is in a bad bad spot right now..Aging players they want to move with only above average teams interested with low picks. Cannot wait to see Rondo after losing 40+ games next season..

Rondo has 2 years left...bad situation for him.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Rondo has 2 years left...bad situation for him.

Maybe he could use those 2 years to learn how to shoot so he can be more than Mr. Assists.

[Master splitter]

Sign & trade: Tiago for Anderson V

[Chinook]

Sign & trade: Tiago for Anderson V

It theory, it's not a bad trade. But Varejao gets hurt too much. Splitter is a better deal in that regard, even though Varejao gets better stats when he's in the game.

[Baam]

Two trades that could be interesting :

Bonner + draft pick for Singleton and Rice , Wall gets the stretch 4 he's asking for and we get a cheap backup 3 and a cheap Neal replacement, both with pretty good upside...

Green for Thompson and Karasev : if we lose Green we have to get a lights out shooter back, I'm not in love with Thompson but if the FO sees something in him why not.

[spursince#99]

Two trades that could be interesting :

Bonner + draft pick for Singleton and Rice , Wall gets the stretch 4 he's asking for and we get a cheap backup 3 and a cheap Neal replacement, both with pretty good upside...

Green for Thompson and Karasev : if we lose Green we have to get a lights out shooter back, I'm not in love with Thompson but if the FO sees something in him why not.


No. Hell no.

[Chinook]

Two trades that could be interesting :

Bonner + draft pick for Singleton and Rice , Wall gets the stretch 4 he's asking for and we get a cheap backup 3 and a cheap Neal replacement, both with pretty good upside...

Replace Singleton with Vesely, drop the pick or make it a second or two, and it's not a bad trade. Washington wants to get out of Jan's contract, and giving up a young asset isn't a bad way of going about doing it, especially if they get a pick back. Maybe including Mills would help them. Vesely could probably learn to be a competent four in the league with good coaching. The team would still need a good three, but they can get that in free agency.



Green for Thompson and Karasev : if we lose Green we have to get a lights out shooter back, I'm not in love with Thompson but if the FO sees something in him why not.

I might make this trade if I'm the Spurs, as both of those players have a chance to be good. It's probably worth it for the Cavs in then sense of them being a more balanced team (especially if they get a good small-forward in free agency). But I don't think they'd consider equal value. They haven't sold low on any other of their players since agreeing to the Lebron trade, and I don't think they would do so here. The Spurs would HAVE to replace Green somehow, though. You have to hope Karasev would be able to do some of the things Danny can do.

[Chinook]

Bruno , would you mind making a DeMar DeRozan trade target thread? The Raptors did just try to trade him to the Clippers, so I think it's relevant. Also, he's a better target than Eliis, in my opinion.

[FireMicoHalili]

Any chance Kris Kardashian gets released or amnestied?

[Juan]

Sign and Trade Splitter + Bonner for Eric Gordon.

[DesignatedT]

What do you guys think about Grievas Vasquez becoming "available".

[Chinook]

He's a big play-maker. I would like him if he were already on the team, but I wouldn't really want to trade for him.

If they wanted to do a Lopez and Vasquez for Bonner deal, I'd probably consider it, though.

[DesignatedT]

I think he'd be a pretty damn good fit. 9 assists per game. Wow.

Could really take over ball handling duties on that 2nd team.

[look_at_g_shred]

I'd love that acquisition

[jesterbobman]

I almost brought up Vasquez a day ago, but I think that the Pelicans would want too much because I think he's ultimately an average/below average player who has a unique skillset/size combo and he played alot. Don't see a deal that'd make sense.