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Bruno
04-30-2009, 03:55 PM
We'll talk in this thread about what kind of trades Spurs should try to do.

Tools to do your virtual trades :
RealGM Trade Checker (http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/1/)
ESPN Trade Machine (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine)

The CBA FAQ by Larry Coon:
CBA FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm)

Bruno
04-30-2009, 03:58 PM
This thread is devoted to teams that might want what we have to offer, and what they might give back.

The basic assumption I am making is that this only considers the 2009 offseason. From the Spurs roster, they clearly have 2 kinds of assets (that they want to trade) to work with. 1) Expiring contracts in summer 2010. 2) The partially guaranteed contracts of Oberto and Bowen.

The partially guaranteed contracts are interesting because of what is expected to happen to the NBA salary cap this year: I have seen speculation (backed up by leaked NBA memos) that suggest the lux tax limit could be as low as 69.4 million next year, http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=886483 . Those partially guaranteed contracts are one of the few ways to shed salary for the 2009/10 season (the other being trades with teams far enough under the cap (not the lux tax line) to take back salary w/o sending partial equivalent in return... Bowen and Oberto's contracts trade for $4 million and $3.8 Million. but their partial guarantees are only $2 Million and $1.9 Million. For example, in theory you could trade a $5 Million dollar contract for Bowen and then cut Bowen, reducing your team salary by $3 Million.

Given the assets indicated, our trade target team should be teams either strongly interested in 2010 offseason capspace, or teams that need capspace in the 09/10 season... Teams that are currently projected to be over the lux tax limit in 09/10 (or need capspace):

Boston
Chicago (assuming the resign Gordon)
Cleveland
Dallas
Denver (unless they are willing to let Keiza, Chris Andersen and Dahntay Jones go)
Lakers (They are in a position to lose 2 important players, Odom and Ariza, and are kind of stuck making a choice...With Bynum's extension kicking in, they know they will be over tax. The question is how far is Buss willing to go...)
Miami (surprising but true...)
Milwaukee (must get some more space or make a choice between keeping Villaneuva or Sessions)
New Orleans
New York (not that they care...)
Orlando (depending if Hedo opts out and they want to resign him...)
Pheonix
San Antonio (Yes, we are dancing close to the line. If we want to avoid the tax next year, we are going to have to be careful in the contracts we take back. Finley retiring rather than taking his $2.5 million player option would help a lot)
Utah (and that's before resigning Millsap)
Washington

One Suggestion might be targeting UTAH for a trade. They know their current roster is not competitive (see their smashing by the Lakers), and needs rebuilding. They know that 2010 is FA land for them too, so they don't want to screw that up. They don't want to lose Millsap. They aren't rich either - they have no history of paying the tax. So how about Okur for Bowen, Oberto and Bonner. Okur is a downgrade to Bonner, but it saves them (9 -2 (buyout) - 1.9 (buyout) - 3.3) 1.8 million in capspace (without making an empty spot in their roster), and doesn't screw up their 2010. SA actually reduces their cap figure as well (4+3.8+3.3 - 9), and upgrades their big men, without screwing up SA's 2010 plans.

manufor3
04-30-2009, 03:59 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5062323
i can only dream...

Bruno
04-30-2009, 04:07 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5062323
i can only dream...

It would have been a damn good and realistic trade if Spurs' colors were purple and gold.

Bruno
04-30-2009, 04:15 PM
pad300 I definitely agree that Bruce's Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts are great assets. I think Spurs should be able to get something good for them.

Saying that, the Okur trade you propose isn't realistic at all. There is no way Utah will trade Okur for Bonner just to lower their payroll of $1.8M.

pad300
04-30-2009, 04:31 PM
pad300 I definitely agree that Bruce's Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts are great assets. I think Spurs should be able to get something good for them.

Saying that, the Okur trade you propose isn't realistic at all. There is no way Utah will trade Okur for Bonner just to lower their payroll of $1.8M.

I'm not sure it's unrealistic. That 1.8 million may just be enough to get them under lux limit with a resigned Millsap (assuming Millsap for just over the MLE, a 69.4 million lux tax limit, and dropping Harpring's non-guaranteed last year). In 09/10, I suspect the payout for the lux tax disbursement is looking at around 5 million... as a result, that's really a 7 million saving (okay 6.8, 1.8 in tax and 5 million gain from the disbursement). That's not chump change. Also, the big thing about it from the Jazz POV is that it has no long term negatives attached - No giving up picks, no giving up prospects, no taking back bad contracts. The only thing they do is give up a talented player who was a UFA next season anyways... Which barring a miracle, they weren't a contender anyhow. They also get a replacement for the player they are giving up who can fill the same role Okur does...

tp2021
04-30-2009, 04:33 PM
http://tinyurl.com/cerkty

Bring Bowen back after they cut him, try to lure Sheed (or Dice, if not then Gooden) with the MLE.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 04:39 PM
Or you could try this.

http://tinyurl.com/d3cs2d

Bruno
04-30-2009, 04:49 PM
I'm not sure it's unrealistic. That 1.8 million may just be enough to get them under lux limit with a resigned Millsap (assuming Millsap for just over the MLE, a 69.4 million lux tax limit, and dropping Harpring's non-guaranteed last year). In 09/10, I suspect the payout for the lux tax disbursement is looking at around 5 million... as a result, that's really a 7 million saving (okay 6.8, 1.8 in tax and 5 million gain from the disbursement). That's not chump change. Also, the big thing about it from the Jazz POV is that it has no long term negatives attached - No giving up picks, no giving up prospects, no taking back bad contracts. The only thing they do is give up a talented player who was a UFA next season anyways... Which barring a miracle, they weren't a contender anyhow. They also get a replacement for the player they are giving up who can fill the same role Okur does...

1) Harpring contract is fully guaranteed for next year. http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/notes/jazz.htm

2) $5M in luxury tax redistribution seems is a lot. I haven't estimate the luxury tax paid but I doubt the redistribution will be above $3M.

3) I find that you badly underrate the level difference between Okur and Bonner. Okur is a damn good player.

pad300
04-30-2009, 05:32 PM
1) Harpring contract is fully guaranteed for next year. http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/notes/jazz.htm

2) $5M in luxury tax redistribution seems is a lot. I haven't estimate the luxury tax paid but I doubt the redistribution will be above $3M.

3) I find that you badly underrate the level difference between Okur and Bonner. Okur is a damn good player.

1) Nice, I'd never noticed those little notes pages before. That does mean the Jazz are F'ed. They simply can't afford to resign Millsap. I thought Harping would give them enough space to work in. Too bad for them. Too bad for us too, if the deal won't let them retain Millsap, they won't go through with it.

2) You think that $5M is high? I came up with 13 teams in cap trouble unless they do something radical. A lot of them are in BIG cap trouble if the lux tax line drops... The Lakers are going to pay like $20 million themselves (assuming they only keep one of Ariza /Odom)...Washington adding this years 1st round pick is looking at a $10 million payout. Utah adds their own 1st round pick and 1 vet min guy to bring them to 12 bodies on the roster (and not resigning Millsap obviously) are paying $5 Million. Pheonix adds 2 vet min guys to bring their roster to 12 and they are paying $10 million too....Cleveland and Denver are also currently staring paying $ 5 Milllion each in the face, assuming they fill out the roster with Vet Min contracts... Hell, if we use the MLE, we'll be paying $5 million.

Next year is gonna be an ugly, ugly cap year. Who knows, the NBA might just be being a bit optimistic about revenue...

3) Damn straight Okur's a lot better than Bonner. That's why we want him, and he costs 3 times as much. However, they do fulfill much the same role on the floor.

Bruno
04-30-2009, 05:39 PM
^ Well, you are maybe right on the $5M but it seems a little high.
I'm going to look more closely at the 30 teams. Having an estimation of the total luxury tax paid is something interesting because it will determined the interest for Spurs to stay just under the tax.

pad300
04-30-2009, 05:47 PM
Further continuing my ruminations about trades (and also the possibilities of the Spurs spending Money this summer). The salary cap is going to be a big deal next year. I suspect that the spurs will avoid any deal that adds net salary. If Finley retires that gives them a bit more room to work in, but that's all. THis is what they are committed to, just getting to a 12 man roster and standing PAT:

Player 2009/2010
Tim Duncan $22,183,220
Tony Parker $12,600,000
Manu Ginobili $10,728,130
Kurt Thomas $3,800,000
Roger Mason $3,780,000
Matt Bonner $3,256,500
George Hill $1,081,680
Ian Mahinmi $899,700
Michael Finley $2,500,000
Bruce Bowen $4,000,000
Fabricio Oberto $3,800,000
Vet Min Guy $825,497

Total: $69,454,727

Which is to say, the Lux Tax Limit. Assuming Finley retires, Bowen and Oberto are bought out and all 3 replaced for the vet min, the total remaining space is $65,531,218, leaving less than the MLE to work with, assuming a lux tax limit of $ 69.4 Million, and only 12 on the roster...

Bruno
04-30-2009, 06:07 PM
With a $71M luxury tax threshold, I have :

Atlanta: $0
Boston: $10M
Charlotte: $0
Chicago: $5M
Cleveland: $5M
Dallas: $10M
Denver: $10M
Detroit: $0
Houston: $5M
Indiana: $0
Clippers: $0
Lakers: $20M
Memphis: $0
Miami: $0
Milwaukee: $0
Minny: $0
New Jersey: $0
New Orleans: $10M
New York : $10M
Oklahoma City: $0
Orlando: $0
Philly: $0
Phoenix: $10M
Portland: $0
Sacramento: $0
San Antonio: $0
Toronto: $0
Utah: $5M
Washington: $5M

So $105M paid in luxury tax, that is to say $3.5M in redistribution for the team below the threshold.

That's a quite high level. It's higher than what I though. This high level could push Spurs to stay below the tax. :depressed

Mel_13
04-30-2009, 06:08 PM
Further continuing my ruminations about trades (and also the possibilities of the Spurs spending Money this summer). The salary cap is going to be a big deal next year. I suspect that the spurs will avoid any deal that adds net salary. If Finley retires that gives them a bit more room to work in, but that's all. THis is what they are committed to, just getting to a 12 man roster and standing PAT:

Player 2009/2010
Tim Duncan $22,183,220
Tony Parker $12,600,000
Manu Ginobili $10,728,130
Kurt Thomas $3,800,000
Roger Mason $3,780,000
Matt Bonner $3,256,500
George Hill $1,081,680
Ian Mahinmi $899,700
Michael Finley $2,500,000
Bruce Bowen $4,000,000
Fabricio Oberto $3,800,000
Vet Min Guy $825,497

Total: $69,454,727

Which is to say, the Lux Tax Limit. Assuming Finley retires, Bowen and Oberto are bought out and all 3 replaced for the vet min, the total remaining space is $65,531,218, leaving less than the MLE to work with, assuming a lux tax limit of $ 69.4 Million, and only 12 on the roster...

Thank you, I've been trying to get this point across in several different threads. The numbers above are even more sobering when you consider that the Big 3 account for 45.5M of the 69.4M. That leaves 23.9M for the rest of roster.

These scenarios that suggest adding a VC or an RJ are just not possible. Even if you magically make all the other contracts disappear, you're left with about 10M for nine players after you add a VC/RJ sized contract to the Big 3. If you use the MLE, you have 5M for eight players.

I just don't see how a player like VC or RJ can come in unless Manu goes out.

DPG21920
04-30-2009, 06:16 PM
With a $71M luxury tax threshold, I have :

Atlanta: $0
Boston: $10M
Charlotte: $0
Chicago: $5M
Cleveland: $5M
Dallas: $10M
Denver: $10M
Detroit: $0
Houston: $5M
Indiana: $0
Clippers: $0
Lakers: $20M
Memphis: $0
Miami: $0
Milwaukee: $0
Minny: $0
New Jersey: $0
New Orleans: $10M
New York : $10M
Oklahoma City: $0
Orlando: $0
Philly: $0
Phoenix: $10M
Portland: $0
Sacramento: $0
San Antonio: $0
Toronto: $0
Utah: $5M
Washington: $5M

So $105M paid in luxury tax, that is to say $3.5M in redistribution for the team below the threshold.

That's a quite high level. It's higher than what I though. This high level could push Spurs to stay below the tax. :depressed

Well most of the assumptions that people are making include the thought that the Spurs are going to have to open up their wallets.

Look at the Lakers with 20M in tax. They still have to sign LO, Ariza and Shannon Brown. This is the time to poach talent if you are willing to spend. If you can do a salaries matched trade with 3 for 1, then that leaves you with almost the full MLE to spend and stay below the tax. Assuming you spend the last 2 roster spots on league minimum contracts.

Bruno
04-30-2009, 06:21 PM
Look at the Lakers with 20M in tax. They still have to sign LO, Ariza and Shannon Brown.

The $20M figure is an estimation I made if they re-sign both Odom and Ariza. The numbers, I've given, are a rough estimation after the summer moves made by teams (re-signing players, MLE spend on new players..).

pad300
04-30-2009, 06:33 PM
The $20M figure is an estimation I made if they re-sign both Odom and Ariza. The numbers, I've given, are a rough estimation after the summer moves made by teams (re-signing players, MLE spend on new players..).

Yeah, well, your also working with a $71 Million limit. $69.4 would add roughly 20 million to the dispersion pool, (12 team times 1.6Million) and probably push 2 or 3 more teams over the limit so they don't collect. That make the pool 125 million over 15 teams (assuming 3 pushed over the edge for easy Math). 125/15 ~ 8.33 million... Yeah the lux tax threshold is gonna be really important.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 06:37 PM
Gotdamn cheap-ass buttfucking Spurs!!!

[\outburst]

tp2021
04-30-2009, 08:10 PM
The Spurs need an upgrade at C and SF. The draft won't supply an upgrade most likely, and no way the SPurs can upgrade 2 positions in just free agency. There has to be some sort of trade with Bruce and Fab as the main pieces.

pad300
04-30-2009, 08:22 PM
The Spurs need an upgrade at C and SF. The draft won't supply an upgrade most likely, and no way the SPurs can upgrade 2 positions in just free agency. There has to be some sort of trade with Bruce and Fab as the main pieces.

Pretty much true; but I don't think that the draft will offer a upgrade to either position; not at #37... I am also suspicious that the Spurs will be very reluctant to spend FA money in an offseason with a declining Lux tax.

So it might be 2 seperate trades, one with Bruce and one with Fab, for lower level talent. This would mean the bottom end of the 2010 FA pool, which would leave the Spurs in a position to further upgrade in 2010...

The other thing to note is that a good PF might be as useful as a center. We have 2 players who can play C effectively on the roster (TD and KT)...

tp2021
04-30-2009, 08:24 PM
Damn. I thought the Spurs were willing to sacrifice the 2010 plan in order to win now, while Tim and Manu can still eat solid food.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 08:38 PM
Here's some other possible trades.

This one works with or without Johnson, whichever the Bulls prefer.

http://tinyurl.com/c4ddtw

And of course Camby.

http://tinyurl.com/dmh9cu

pad300
04-30-2009, 08:44 PM
Damn. I thought the Spurs were willing to sacrifice the 2010 plan in order to win now, while Tim and Manu can still eat solid food.

I think they would be willing to sacrifice the 2010 plan for a reload in 2009 yes. But that implies bringing in a strong player at either C, PF or SF, who can pair with Tony until 2012 (End of Duncan's contract). It might be doable if some team gets really desperate for cap relief. Eg. The Wizards trade Butler for Bonner, Bowen and Oberto and a 2010 first. The Spurs would take this, and resign Gino in 2010 (hopefully for cheap), and fill out the rest of the squad with cheap vet min / rookie contracts...If they can get Gino to resign cheap in 2010, the cap space might work. But abandoning the 2010 plan will only happen for a 2009 reload that will allow them to put another star on the Spurs to take over for Manu and Tim's decline from superstar status while the team becomes Tony's.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 08:49 PM
http://tinyurl.com/cg9gjv

Not sure why the Pacers do it. They are already under the tax line. But it works.

Mel_13
04-30-2009, 08:57 PM
I think they would be willing to sacrifice the 2010 plan for a reload in 2009 yes. But that implies bringing in a strong player at either C, PF or SF, who can pair with Tony until 2012 (End of Duncan's contract). It might be doable if some team gets really desperate for cap relief. Eg. The Wizards trade Butler for Bonner, Bowen and Oberto and a 2010 first. The Spurs would take this, and resign Gino in 2010 (hopefully for cheap), and fill out the rest of the squad with cheap vet min / rookie contracts...If they can get Gino to resign cheap in 2010, the cap space might work. But abandoning the 2010 plan will only happen for a 2009 reload that will allow them to put another star on the Spurs to take over for Manu and Tim's decline from superstar status while the team becomes Tony's.


Absolutely, their willingness to discuss trades for Camby and Carter are evidence that the Spurs would be ready to make a move for an impact player. I think a 10M salary like Butler's is about the upper limit that could be added to the Big 3, pay for the rest of the roster, and stay under the tax.

Btw, the Spurs can't trade their 2010 first rounder because they traded their 2009 pick.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 09:02 PM
Now for the Hornets.

http://tinyurl.com/dnecbu

This works with or without Wright.



http://tinyurl.com/dzmht4
The Hornets have already shown a willingness to trade him. A good defensive C to take defensive pressure off TD and get weakside blocks. ABle to stay out of TD's way on offense, but I don't know if he can get the midrange jumper that the 2nd big needs next to Tim.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 09:10 PM
http://tinyurl.com/d2jsgp

I'm not sure why I did this one. But it works.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 09:31 PM
http://tinyurl.com/d2lx3w

His contract is pretty expensive. This year he's costing almost as much as Gerald Wallace for them.

Marcus Bryant
04-30-2009, 10:07 PM
Diaw's all around game is intriguing, but not the kind of $27 mil intriguing.

DPG21920
04-30-2009, 10:17 PM
Diaw's all around game is intriguing, but not the kind of $27 mil intriguing.

If the Spurs goal is to pick up a big man in 2010 that has some skill and is relatively young, I think a good idea might be to pry Kaman from the Clippers this year. It is just hard to gauge how serious the Clips are about trading.

Realistically he is about as good the Spurs could hope for in 2010 a la Gooden. But Kaman is better all around than Gooden.


Edit: By the way, Bruce/Oberto for Kaman works. 10M per year for Kaman is reasonable.

Marcus Bryant
04-30-2009, 10:20 PM
The Spurs can offer at least $3.8 million in payroll reduction to another team by dealing Bowen and Oberto. It would be more if they take on a contract with more than one year remaining. While it's tempting to play the 'what if' game with 2010, experience shows that is not going to pay off handsomely, at least in free agency. I think they should do what they can to load up on talent now. An opportunistic cap induced trade, the wise use of their MLE (McDyess) & LLE, a healthy TD and Manu, and one (or more) of their young prospects turning into a contributor should be enough to make the Spurs a serious contender again.

DPG21920
04-30-2009, 10:24 PM
The Spurs can offer at least $3.8 million in payroll reduction to another team by dealing Bowen and Oberto. It would be more if they take on a contract with more than one year remaining. While it's tempting to play the 'what if' game with 2010, experience shows that is not going to pay off handsomely, at least in free agency. I think they should do what they can to load up on talent now. An opportunistic cap induced trade, the wise use of their MLE (McDyess) & LLE, a healthy TD and Manu, and one (or more) of their young prospects turning into a contributor should be enough to make the Spurs a serious contender again.

How do you feel about my idea? Kaman is about as good as you can hope for with a team looking to trade.

Then you can throw the MLE at someone like Ariza to see if the Lakers will match (which they probably will).

tp2021
04-30-2009, 10:24 PM
If the Spurs goal is to pick up a big man in 2010 that has some skill and is relatively young, I think a good idea might be to pry Kaman from the Clippers this year. It is just hard to gauge how serious the Clips are about trading.

Realistically he is about as good the Spurs could hope for in 2010 a la Gooden. But Kaman is better all around than Gooden.


Edit: By the way, Bruce/Oberto for Kaman works. 10M per year for Kaman is reasonable.

It works. But the Clippers aren't into luxury tax territory, so I don't see why they would do it.

So they probably will, it's the Clippers.

DPG21920
04-30-2009, 10:26 PM
Same way they were "willing" to trade Camby. They have a log-jam up front and need to do something.

tp2021
04-30-2009, 10:34 PM
http://tinyurl.com/cdb5ge

There it is.

StoneBuddha
04-30-2009, 10:48 PM
In regards to the Spurs willingness to go over the luxury tax, I was a little heartened by the recent article where Holt said the Spurs were in good financial shape and didn't need to take any money from the NBA like some of the other teams.

Also, don't the Spurs make $1 million dollars for every home playoff game. A deep playoff run might offset some of the loss of the luxury tax.

5 extra home games = costs of going over the luxury tax? A WCF appearance or Finals appearance may pay for itself.

:flag:

EricB
04-30-2009, 10:52 PM
I like Kaman's game but hes always freaking hurt.

Like Camby.

StoneBuddha
04-30-2009, 11:13 PM
Kaman doesn't strike me as a $10 mil per year player. You really need an impact player for that amount and I'm not convinced that Kaman is one.

Plus, he strikes me as a player who might not age well, which scares me with the length of his contract. Basically, the Spurs only get one swing at that price and I'd rather take that chance elsewhere.

intlspurshk
05-01-2009, 12:11 AM
T Chandler is worth exploring; R Jefferson is too expensive but very useful; V Carter is a big risk; Kaman may be too slow and trading for him mean SPURS play the old style game but is still good to explore further; Camby is a definitely no....

duncan228
05-01-2009, 01:09 AM
Also, don't the Spurs make $1 million dollars for every home playoff game.

Is there info on this? A link, a breakdown?

StoneBuddha
05-01-2009, 01:48 AM
Here's a link that talks about it.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=898298

This isn't where I heard about it originally, but the logic in the thread seems very plausible and was similar to what I heard earlier.

Sorry, I couldn't get the hyperlink to work correctly when I cut and pasted it. Hope it still helps.

.

duncan228
05-01-2009, 02:00 AM
Thanks. I'd love to see something official. They mention an ESPN article but no link.

There's the Playoff Pool money, but it would be interesting to see how much else is generated.

Just for fun, this years Playoff Pool:

Best record in the NBA ($317,263), Best record in Conference ($277,604 each), Second-best record in conference ($223,126 each), Third-best record in conference ($166,563), Fourth-best record in conference ($130,900), Fifth-best record in conference ($109,074), Sixth-best record in conference ($74,394).

Teams participating in first round ($164,168 each), Teams participating in conference semifinals ($195,337 each), Teams participating in conference finals ($322,792 each), Losing team NBA Finals ($1,290,821), Winning team NBA Finals ($1,948,042).

http://blogs.sltrib.com/jazz/2009/04/saturday-report.htm

tp2021
05-01-2009, 02:58 AM
Who would duncan228 like to see patrolling the paint next to Timmy?

tp2021
05-01-2009, 03:42 AM
Here's a dream.

http://tinyurl.com/cpo3sb

Don't tell tlong.

pad300
05-01-2009, 10:23 AM
Absolutely, their willingness to discuss trades for Camby and Carter are evidence that the Spurs would be ready to make a move for an impact player. I think a 10M salary like Butler's is about the upper limit that could be added to the Big 3, pay for the rest of the roster, and stay under the tax.

Btw, the Spurs can't trade their 2010 first rounder because they traded their 2009 pick.

I would note that a Camby trade, which IMO was much more seriously discussed than a Carter trade, is not sacrificing the 2010 plan. Camby expires in time for 2010.

duncan228
05-01-2009, 11:20 AM
Who would duncan228 like to see patrolling the paint next to Timmy?

Anyone who can defend, rebound, has a good work ethic, and can ease the burden on Duncan.

Just get Duncan some help. I'd love to see him be able to play limited minutes in the regular season without sacrificing wins.

024
05-01-2009, 02:15 PM
kaman is the best option. clippers don't want him, that's why they sacrificed expiring contracts in 2010 to acquire randolph. they also will probably let camby's contract expire to ease their cap situation. trading expiring contracts for camby, who is already on an expiring contract doesn't make much sense. they have three centers that are starter quality and kaman's contract runs the longest, into the year that thorton would become a RFA.

i think kaman can still develop. playing on the clippers can kill your motivation. he defends, has decent speed for his position, blocks quite a few shots, and can score. the only downside would be killing the 2010 plan and potentially burdening the spurs' cap situation for years to come. however, if kaman can stay healthy, spurs will never have to look for a supporting bigman for duncan ever again.

ducks
05-01-2009, 03:26 PM
I like Kaman's game but hes always freaking hurt.

Like Camby.reminds me of manu:bang:bang

Marcus Bryant
05-01-2009, 04:24 PM
What if the Spurs approach the offseason by using the MLE to get a proven starting bigman (ie McDyess) and then use their expiring contracts (including Bowen and Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts) to go after some younger restricted free agents in sign and trades? They'd probably have to take back a bad contract(s), but I think this might be an effective way to play the offseason, instead of using the expiring contracts to make a run at a player like a Carter or a Jefferson who's on one large contract? They could then fill out the roster with some of their younger prospects (Mahinmi, Williams, etc...) You have to address needs and I think the most glaring is the center position. After that, I think they should think about improving the bench with some younger RFAs.

tp2021
05-01-2009, 04:53 PM
MB, in your opinion, what about Dice makes him a better option for the Spurs than Sheed?

portnoy1
05-01-2009, 04:55 PM
C Mehmet Okur ( a greater matt bonner in all categories ) and SF Ron Artest ( a former Defensive player of year ) are both unrestricted free agents. what do ya think?

Marcus Bryant
05-01-2009, 05:01 PM
MB, in your opinion, what about Dice makes him a better option for the Spurs than Sheed?

Better rebounder, more polished post game, plays within himself, and more of a team player. I think Wallace's 3 point range is somewhat overrated given that McDyess' range on his jumper extends out enough that opponents have to respect it. Also, Wallace seems to fall back on the 3 ball enough that it hurts his overall offensive contribution. McDyess shot a full 9% better from the field than Wallace did last season.

44% of Wallace's FG attempts this season were 3-point FG attempts, of which he made 35%. I like the idea of bringing in Bonner off the bench as the 3 point bigman threat.

pad300
05-01-2009, 06:04 PM
ESPN has a listing of all the 09 and 10 free agents here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10

2010 FA's, if traded for, will not disrupt the Spurs own 2010 plan. (I expect the Spurs to hold to that plan, unless someone offers them a star level player eg. Caron Butler on the cheap). I spent some time looking through the list for decent players that would fit in a salary envelop that the spurs could trade for (somewhere between 2 and 10 Million). I also weeded out players that their team obviously wouldn't trade (eg. LaMarcus Aldridge)... I went looking for bigs, and Wing/SF players
Bigs
2010 FA's
Tyrus Thomas (CHI), Amir Johnson (DET), Carl Landry (HOU), Scola (HOU), Hayes(HOU), Camby (LAC), Milicic (MEM), Haslem (MIA), Craig Smith (MIN), Josh Boone (NJN), Hilton Armstrong (NOH), Brendan Haywood (WAS)
and 2009 Opt outs that I don't see being taken
Mehmet Okur (UTA), Turkoglu (ORL), Al Harrington (NYK)
Wings/SF
2010 FA's
Balkman (DEN), Dorell Wright (MIA), Mike Miller (MIN), Selafosha (OKC), Outlaw (POR)
and 2009 Opt outs that I don't see being taken
Kyle Korver (UTA), Devin Brown (NOH)

Note that there are other names not on my list that might be good targets as they have player options/ETO's in 2010 (eg. John Salmons (CHI), Pryzbilla (POR)). However, I think it is clear that there are more decent big available that might fit in with the 2010 plan. I have Bolded the players who's teams have been previously identified as being interested in cap savings…


A suggested trade Haywood + Filler for Bowen and Oberto + cash for buyouts. A scenario that works for SA is D. Mcguire (SF/PF tweener), Crittendon (PG), and Haywood. Mcguire and Crittendon are young but not impressive... Alternatively, there might be a 3 way deal out there

Chieflion
05-03-2009, 12:41 AM
I want John Salmons and Joakim Noah from the Bulls.

SenorSpur
05-03-2009, 02:03 AM
pad300 I definitely agree that Bruce's Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts are great assets. I think Spurs should be able to get something good for them.

Saying that, the Okur trade you propose isn't realistic at all. There is no way Utah will trade Okur for Bonner just to lower their payroll of $1.8M.

It also doesn't make much basketball sense because it doesn't give the Spurs anything they don't already have. This roster is long on one-dimensional shooters and short on length, quickness and athleticism. They need more of the latter and less of the former.

Biggems
05-03-2009, 11:37 AM
you know why the original trade is stupid.......not saying your idea is stupid........it is stupid cause we should have drafted Gasol instead of Marcus Williams.......then we wouldnt have to suggest these silly trades to get him.

manufor3
05-05-2009, 07:36 AM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=czudas

Chieflion
05-05-2009, 09:14 AM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=czudas
This, this fails.

mosdef17
05-05-2009, 09:59 AM
This is my first post here...

The following is what I think the Spurs need:

- A scorer at the SF position.
- Someone who can get their own shot.
- Someone that can defend the pesky PFs of the league (Dirk, Odom etc)
- Someone who has size so they can slide to the PF position.
- Athleticism.
- Someone with a modest sized contract.
- Someone with a good head on their shoulders.
- Whilst being able to pass and rebound and shoot the three ball.

I think there is someone out there that could be available to fill ALL those needs. Caron Butler. Wizards are apparently looking to cut the payroll and obviously nobody is going to take on Arenas' contract and that therefore leaves either Jamison or Caron to be traded if they are to cut the payroll.

What can we do to get Caron? Whilst other teams definitely could offer more then we could, something like this would be the base of the deal:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb74/mosdef177/Butler.jpg

Obviously we would probably need to add in a future 1st and 2nd round draft pick. We could even offer to throw in (even though I don't like the idea of it but would still pull the trigger if we get to keep our future first round pick) George Hill. Suddenly an offer of two partially guaranteed contracts, a future second round pick and George Hill doesn't seem too shabby of an offer. Other teams potentially could still offer more though.

Late in the games where Pop likes to use Duncan at the 5 with 2 SF's and 2 Guards the lineup would be perfect with:

C: Duncan
PF: Butler
SF: Finley/Bowen/Udoka?
SG: Ginobili
PG: Parker

That is a deadly lineup!

Or, if we throw the MLE at Sheed as predicted it would be:

C: Sheed
PF: Duncan
SF: Butler
SG: Ginobili
PG: Parker

That is a great mix of Defense and Offense if you ask me.

Anyway, I think Caron would be perfect... Get on it Pop!!!!

StoneBuddha
05-05-2009, 11:57 AM
I really hope the Spurs are at least considering trades of this magnitude, but I have a sneaking suspicion the Spurs big move of the off-season will be signing someone like Dahntay Jones or Rodney Carney for 1/3 of the MLE.

BTW, watching Scola play against the Lakers gives me an ulcer. "A bigger Ginobili"... basically, it looks like all the reasons the Spurs gave for giving up on him have turned out completely false. He's gritty, unselfish, and can make a 15 footer. :bang Sorry, I needed to vent.

Chieflion
05-08-2009, 08:39 PM
This is my first post here...

The following is what I think the Spurs need:

- A scorer at the SF position.
- Someone who can get their own shot.
- Someone that can defend the pesky PFs of the league (Dirk, Odom etc)
- Someone who has size so they can slide to the PF position.
- Athleticism.
- Someone with a modest sized contract.
- Someone with a good head on their shoulders.
- Whilst being able to pass and rebound and shoot the three ball.

I think there is someone out there that could be available to fill ALL those needs. Caron Butler. Wizards are apparently looking to cut the payroll and obviously nobody is going to take on Arenas' contract and that therefore leaves either Jamison or Caron to be traded if they are to cut the payroll.

What can we do to get Caron? Whilst other teams definitely could offer more then we could, something like this would be the base of the deal:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb74/mosdef177/Butler.jpg

Obviously we would probably need to add in a future 1st and 2nd round draft pick. We could even offer to throw in (even though I don't like the idea of it but would still pull the trigger if we get to keep our future first round pick) George Hill. Suddenly an offer of two partially guaranteed contracts, a future second round pick and George Hill doesn't seem too shabby of an offer. Other teams potentially could still offer more though.

Late in the games where Pop likes to use Duncan at the 5 with 2 SF's and 2 Guards the lineup would be perfect with:

C: Duncan
PF: Butler
SF: Finley/Bowen/Udoka?
SG: Ginobili
PG: Parker

That is a deadly lineup!

Or, if we throw the MLE at Sheed as predicted it would be:

C: Sheed
PF: Duncan
SF: Butler
SG: Ginobili
PG: Parker

That is a great mix of Defense and Offense if you ask me.

Anyway, I think Caron would be perfect... Get on it Pop!!!!
Lets see what Washington's place in the lottery is first before suggesting anything.

Blackjack
05-09-2009, 02:26 AM
2010 FA's, if traded for, will not disrupt the Spurs own 2010 plan. (I expect the Spurs to hold to that plan, unless someone offers them a star level player eg. Caron Butler on the cheap).


2010 FA's
Balkman (DEN), Dorell Wright (MIA), Mike Miller (MIN), Selafosha (OKC), Outlaw (POR)

A suggested trade Haywood + Filler for Bowen and Oberto + cash for buyouts. A scenario that works for SA is D. Mcguire (SF/PF tweener), Crittendon (PG), and Haywood. Mcguire and Crittendon are young but not impressive... Alternatively, there might be a 3 way deal out there

Caron Butler, Sefolosha and McGuire are all players high on my wishlist, so I'd be pretty damn happy if the Spurs could land one of them.

Caron's probably a bit of a pipe dream, but Thabo and McGuire seem a bit more realistic.(Although, Thabo definitely less realistic than McGuire)

Thabo and McGuire would both go a long way in filling the void soon to be left by Bowen defensively-Thabo being a little more physical version of D. Christie and McGuire leaning more towards Posey- but both also bring a versatilty at the offensive-end with their ability to play the point-forward role.

I really think this team should be looking to move into a somewhat "Showtime" style of play.

With Tony being one of the best open-court points in the league and Tim beginning to go the way of Kareem, it would not only benefit both of them quite well on the court, but it's also easier to fill in a roster with guys who can run the floor and defend on the cheap. Hill and Mahinmi would both thrive in a more up-tempo game and a guy like Gist might even turn into a poor-man's Worthy. (A very, very, poor-man's version:hat)

If I had it my way next year, the Spurs would have the Big 3, they'd keep a couple of veteran shooters and bigs with playoff savvy, and then fill out the roster with younger players who bring versatility and energy.

Marcus Bryant
05-11-2009, 06:36 PM
Bowen + Oberto + Bonner + Finley = $13.1 mil in potential salary to take back. Mason and Thomas add another $7.7 mil to that. I wouldn't factor in the ability to take up to 115% of that due to the MLE, LLE and Lux Tax considerations.

The Spurs could really revamp the roster this offseason and/or by the trade deadline next February.

I'd kinda like to see them look for multiple deals and perhaps land a pick or two.

Given that Bowen and Oberto's partially guaranteed contracts would enable a team to erase $3.8 mil off their payroll next season, they should be able to find an attractive deal.

symple19
05-11-2009, 06:38 PM
http://tinyurl.com/cerkty

Bring Bowen back after they cut him, try to lure Sheed (or Dice, if not then Gooden) with the MLE.
wow, best idea i've ever seen on this board...NICE:flag:

tp2021
05-11-2009, 06:39 PM
Are there any players with more desirable partially-guaranteed contracts than Bruce and Fab?

Marcus Bryant
05-11-2009, 06:46 PM
Are there any players with more desirable partially-guaranteed contracts than Bruce and Fab?

None that I know of. I guess they could always persuade Horry to come out of retirement for a day.

tp2021
05-11-2009, 07:11 PM
None that I know of. I guess they could always persuade Horry to come out of retirement for a day.

Would it be reasonable to assume that if a team wants to shed payroll in a trade, the Spurs are the first team they call?

Mel_13
05-11-2009, 08:56 PM
Would it be reasonable to assume that if a team wants to shed payroll in a trade, the Spurs are the first team they call?

The three teams with cap space (MEM, DET, and OKC) as well as Portland (Blake and Outlaw's contracts are 100% unguaranteed) and Dallas (only 2M of Stackhouse's 7.25M deal is guaranteed) can all offer more salary cap relief in a trade than the Spurs can.

Marcus Bryant
05-11-2009, 09:39 PM
How many of those want to?

Mel_13
05-11-2009, 09:49 PM
How many of those want to?

I have no idea, I suppose it would depend on the player available, the price tag, and the needs of the acquiring team. I was just answering the question as to whether the Spurs would be the first team called by a team looking to shed salary. There are at least five teams that could offer more.

One other thing to consider. If the Spurs want to use the MLE, they are going to have to shed salary themselves (unless you believe they are going to exceed the tax). The easiest way for the Spurs to shed salary will be to cut Oberto and Bowen. If they trade those two for contracts of the same size, they are probably going to have to give up assets (Hill, draft picks) to get some team to take another contract (Bonner, Thomas, Mason) off the books.

Libri
05-12-2009, 12:16 AM
If they want to keep Bruce, can they cut him and then resign him for the league minimum?

Mel_13
05-12-2009, 12:37 AM
If they want to keep Bruce, can they cut him and then resign him for the league minimum?




yes

mosdef17
05-12-2009, 06:51 AM
Most of the teams that trade for Bowen (well basically all teams) will probably buy him out because of his partially gauranteed contract... Spurs might sign him back if that happens, who knows. He has 1-2 seasons left, at BEST.

Chieflion
05-13-2009, 05:29 AM
The three teams with cap space (MEM, DET, and OKC) as well as Portland (Blake and Outlaw's contracts are 100% unguaranteed) and Dallas (only 2M of Stackhouse's 7.25M deal is guaranteed) can all offer more salary cap relief in a trade than the Spurs can.
Oh ya. Cleveland's Sasha Pavlovic is partially unguaranteed as well. He can be bought out for 1 million.

mountainballer
05-13-2009, 06:21 AM
The three teams with cap space (MEM, DET, and OKC) as well as Portland (Blake and Outlaw's contracts are 100% unguaranteed) and Dallas (only 2M of Stackhouse's 7.25M deal is guaranteed) can all offer more salary cap relief in a trade than the Spurs can.

add Denver, they have a 9.8 million TE from the Camby trade.
and Miami has a 4.3 million TE, this competes in terms of dump pure potential, but can't be combined with another contract. (so they can swallow a contract of 5.4 million, but not, for example, a player like Miller, Sjax, Camby, VC etc...)

Mel_13
05-13-2009, 06:40 AM
add Denver, they have a 9.8 million TE from the Camby trade.
and Miami has a 4.3 million TE, this competes in terms of dump pure potential, but can't be combined with another contract. (so they can swallow a contract of 5.4 million, but not, for example, a player like Miller, Sjax, Camby, VC etc...)

Yep, and Portland has a 3M+ TE from the Diogu deal as well.

The Bowen/Oberto deals are tradeable assets, but they are far from unique.

I can see OKC and MEM essentially holding an auction for chunks of their cap space. In supply/demand terms they control a large portion of the salary dump market. Remember, OKC got two first rounders from PHX for taking KT's contract and then traded him for one more first rounder from the Spurs. It wouldn't be surprising to see similar deals this summer, especially from OKC, where they take on veterans with 1-2 yr deals along with young talent and/or future draft picks in exchange for TEs and cap relief.

mountainballer
05-13-2009, 07:07 AM
Yep, and Portland has a 3M+ TE from the Diogu deal as well.

The Bowen/Oberto deals are tradeable assets, but they are far from unique.

I can see OKC and MEM essentially holding an auction for chunks of their cap space. In supply/demand terms they control a large portion of the salary dump market. Remember, OKC got two first rounders from PHX for taking KT's contract and then traded him for one more first rounder from the Spurs. It wouldn't be surprising to see similar deals this summer, especially from OKC, where they take on veterans with 1-2 yr deals along with young talent and/or future draft picks in exchange for TEs and cap relief.

could very well happen like this.
well, Chris Wallace for sure is to dumb for such moves, but Presti can.
OKC will see this draft as the last one with a top pick for them in a long time. so they will make the moves based on who they get. but one thing is for sure, they will want to be a player in the 2010 free agency and therefore they need an already competitive team, because none comes to OKC because of their great beach or their big market.
so it would make much sense to add a good veteran or two by swallowing their contracts with the available cap space. they will need to improve to a 50% team, to attract some premium FAs in 2010.

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 02:15 PM
According to ESPN's Trade Machine a deal I have been thinking about would work out.
Its a 3-way trade between the spurs / clippers / raptors.

The Spurs trade G - T.parker $11.3 / C - I. Mahinmi $841K to Clippers
The Clippers trade G - Baron Davis $11.2 to Raptors
The Raptors Trade F/C - A. Bargnani $5 mill / G - J. Calderon $7 mill / C/F - P. Mensah Bonsuh to Spurs and also trade G - Q.Douby $1.4 mill to Clippers.

WHY ?

The spurs will get a 7'0 F/C ( Bargnani ) who can learn and play next to Tim and also give Tim room to operate downlow because he has a good 3pt shot. Calderon will run a good offense (turnover free pretty much ). He will look for Tim in different areas on the floor and run plays for shooters like Mason Jr. / Finley to come of screens, plus keep the defense honest because of his good shooting from the field and free throw line. Mensah -Bonsuh will provide an athletic big man who can dunk /block shots run the floor and rebound.

The clippers will get a scoring point guard ( Parker ) with a young team of his own to finally lead and is young / healthy. He will have the ball and can get high percentage shots for himself at anytime and can create for his teammates. Mahinmi will be young big guy that will get playing time and can be developed along with the other young talent on the team. Q. douby ( trade filler ) FYI - Parker wants to go to L.A., a point guard like parker would never work in Lakerville because of the triangle offense. That offense limits point guards to being Jump-shooters ( all-star Gary Payton didn't do well ) also Parker wouldn't have the ball as much because - Kobe /Pau are the 1-2 options. With the Clippers Parker would have the ball all the time, and work with a decent post guy ( Kaman / Randolph ) and a good athletic F ( Thornton ) plus have a whole bunch of athletic guys who can run with him.

The Raptors Loose bargnani / Calderon, but they gain a point guard who can put up 20-25 points any given night by good shooting and post up as well. can also pass well and run the break. He is more of a run an gun type point guard which will work in Jay Triano's system. Triano is now the official head coach, He wants a more up-tempo style which baron davis can provide. Davis' scoring can also help out Bosh who is the only consistent scorer on the team. They have a few free agents including Shawn Marion, Who might be will to re-sign with toronto because of have a a point guard who likes to run. Similiar to having a bigger steve nash.

If you agree but want more understanding as to why, Great!!!! , If you disagree I'd be happy to defend my trade and understand your view-point!!! Bottom Line - Just let me know what you think and why.
:flag: :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 02:32 PM
Who do you think is better Port, Baron Davis or Calderon?

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 02:33 PM
For the spurs or in general?

For the spurs Calderon.
In general Davis.

Why do you ask?

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 02:45 PM
Why do you think Calderon is better for the Spurs? Doesn't it seem like the Raps and the Spurs are getting screwed in this trade?

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 02:46 PM
Also, look at the value for their contracts and skill level. How much better in general do you think Davis is than Calderon?

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 02:51 PM
First of all the Raptors have calderon, he is not a scoring guard. He pretty much just runs a good offense. With Baron Davis The Raptors will still have the running game they had with calderon. They also have a much much better scorer in baron davis. then also if they dont Re-sign Shawn Marion they can get Richard Jefferson. Now they have 2 guys who can put up 20-30 pts any given night. That makes things easier for bosh. You have a scoring point guard / a scoring athletic forward / and then Bosh has the paint all to himself.

Why do you think Calderon would not work for the Spurs?

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Because he is much worse than TP at everything except for 3 point shooting/FT shooting. Spurs need a pg that can score.

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 02:55 PM
Also, look at the value for their contracts and skill level. How much better in general do you think Davis is than Calderon?
Davis can break down defenses alot easier than calderon because of his street ball moves. he can also post up, and is a decent shooter. Calderon is more of an avery johnson type player, which is what the spurs need right now.

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 02:58 PM
That did not answer my question. How much better is Davis, is he worth the 4M per year extra. By the way, Calderon shoots much, much better than Davis.

Who is better in general, BD or TP?

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 03:00 PM
Because he is much worse than TP at everything except for 3 point shooting/FT shooting. Spurs need a pg that can score.
I see what your saying, however I also think that spurs fans have gotten use to Parker putting up big numbers for the last 8 yrs. The Dallas series proves my point. The spurs dont need a point guard who puts up numbers every game. They need a point guard who will make the game easier for everybody and will assert themselves offensively when necessary. Calderon can put 20pts if he gets the same amount of attempts as parker, because of what you mentioned above. Tell me thats not true!!

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 03:05 PM
That did not answer my question. How much better is Davis, is he worth the 4M per year extra. By the way, Calderon shoots much, much better than Davis.

Who is better in general, BD or TP?
better point guard Calderon easily. Looking at the Raptors situation calderon cant really provide the kind of help they need ( He is not exciting at all ). Calderon runs that offense to perfection ( thats all ). Baron Davis will put more fans in the seats, Spurs fans are loyal, we have enjoyed much success. However Raptor fans are kinda in limbo right now. Baron davis would be worth the money, because if they have another bad year, It would kinda be like the year we had Dominique Wilkins. We sucked but it was a fun year cause we got to watch him. Does that answer that question?

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 03:05 PM
It is definitely not true, because he does not get the easy looks like Parker and he is not as gifted athletically.

TP did set the Spurs up. Spurs got plenty of great looks, they just choked. Spurs would not have won a single game in the playoffs with Calderon. Plus, Calderon is a terrible defender. TP is above average for his position.

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 03:09 PM
better point guard Calderon easily. Looking at the Raptors situation calderon cant really provide the kind of help they need. Calderon works runs that offense to perfection. Baron Davis will put more fans in the seats, Spurs fans are loyal, we have enjoyed much success. However Raptor fans are kinda in limbo right now. Baron davis would be worth the money. It would kinda be like the year we had Dominique Wilkins. We sucked but it was a fun year cause we got to watch him. Does that answer that question?

I would agree that BD when healthy is better than Calderon, but BD cannot stay healthy. That is a serious concern for the amount of money.

What I am saying is that Parker is clearly better than BD, so obviously the Clippers would love to get rid of that terrible contract.

Also, BD, with his health issues and contract is not good enough of an upgrade to take on that salary and give up Bargnani as well.

Calderon + Bargnani is not good enough to give up Parker and throwing Pops in does not make it any better. So basically, the only team it makes sense for is the Clippers imo.

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 03:13 PM
It is definitely not true, because he does not get the easy looks like Parker and he is not as gifted athletically.

TP did set the Spurs up. Spurs got plenty of great looks, they just choked. Spurs would not have won a single game in the playoffs with Calderon. Plus, Calderon is a terrible defender. TP is above average for his position.
True, but if you do what the Raptors did with Calderon / Ford that would work Brilliantly. 28 mins - calderon / 20 min. hill off the bench. With calderon you get good offensive production, with Hill you get athleticism / better defense.

Calderon doesn't have to get easy looks, with him running the offense you will have a balanced attack. Duncan 20 / Manu 17 / Bargnani 15 / Finley 10 / Mason jr. 10. the Reason you would get that kind of production is because Calderon would run different plays , and look for/ put guys in positions to score easier. If parker learned that, he would be unstoppable in all respects.

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 03:16 PM
Do you have a better Idea? not being sarcastic, just curious. you seem to have an idea as to what the spurs really need. I'd love to hear it!!!!!

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 03:17 PM
True, but if you do what the Raptors did with Calderon / Ford that would work Brilliantly. 28 mins - calderon / 20 min. hill off the bench. With calderon you get good offensive production, with Hill you get athleticism / better defense.

Calderon doesn't have to get easy looks, with him running the offense you will have a balanced attack. Duncan 20 / Manu 17 / Bargnani 15 / Finley 10 / Mason jr. 10. the Reason you would get that kind of production is because Calderon would run different plays , and look for/ put guys in positions to score easier. If parker learned that, he would be unstoppable in all respects.

He does do that. Spurs get plenty of great looks which is why they are top 3 in 3PT.

Spurs need offense from the point guard and the system the Spurs run requires the pg to score so Calderon would not succeed. Duncan/Manu/Fin/Mason all score that now, so having Calderon would not improve that. You would be losing scoring when you have Calderon/Hill vs TP/Hill and not improving other guys scoring.

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 03:24 PM
you left out Bargnani. that Makes a huge difference. I wouldn't trade Parker for Calderon straight up. Bargnani can bring back the twin towers look. Dont forget thats what made us successful. Bargnani averaged 1.2 blks a game. looking at how little guys got to the paint ( barea ) we need another big guy who can block shots and keep the defense honest by hitting 3pt shots like Bonner was supposed to do. just real quick b4 i go i wanna know; do you think the spurs would be better with chris paul instead of tony parker?

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Pf - duncan 20pts 10rb 2blks / pops MB ( 6pt 5 rb 1blk)
sf - Bowen ( defense ) / Finley 8pts
C - bargnani 15pts 6 rb 1 blk / Kurt thomas 5pt / 5rb
pg - Calderon 11pt 8ast ( no turnovers ) / hill 7pts ( defense )
sg - mason jr 10 pts / ginobili 15 pts and the usual other stuff you get from him.

DPG21920
05-13-2009, 03:34 PM
Look, you will find I am one of the biggest Bargnani supporters (:lmao), but I would like him on the Spurs only in context of what the Spurs have been doing in recent years (Horry, Bonner...). He would be an upgrade over them, but he is in no way my ideal big man next to Tim.

I did not really forget Bargs in my last scenario. I was trying to make the point that Bargs+Calderon - TP+Bonner (because he would be out of the rotation) = a net loss in points more than likely.

If that is the case, I will take the proven leader, scorer and finals MVP + the defense (TP+Bonner are better defensively than Calderon+Bargs). I would like Bargnani on the Spurs for sure, I really think he has a bright future and he is cheap and can improve (he must improve on defense and rebounding, his offense is fine.).

I have an idea of what the Spurs need and there are multiple players that can fulfill the needs. I know for sure that the Spurs trading TP or TD and to a lesser degree Manu does not improve the team. You have to bring pieces in that add to those 3 unless you are going to get an absolute superstar in return. Calderon+Bargs are talented players in their own regards, but not enough for TP.

The key is to try and analyze the situation (talent, salary cap, future...) and it is incredibly complex.

portnoy1
05-13-2009, 03:42 PM
Look, you will find I am one of the biggest Bargnani supporters (:lmao), but I would like him on the Spurs only in context of what the Spurs have been doing in recent years (Horry, Bonner...). He would be an upgrade over them, but he is in no way my ideal big man next to Tim.

I did not really forget Bargs in my last scenario. I was trying to make the point that Bargs+Calderon - TP+Bonner (because he would be out of the rotation) = a net loss in points more than likely.

If that is the case, I will take the proven leader, scorer and finals MVP + the defense (TP+Bonner are better defensively than Calderon+Bargs). I would like Bargnani on the Spurs for sure, I really think he has a bright future and he is cheap and can improve (he must improve on defense and rebounding, his offense is fine.).

I have an idea of what the Spurs need and there are multiple players that can fulfill the needs. I know for sure that the Spurs trading TP or TD and to a lesser degree Manu does not improve the team. You have to bring pieces in that add to those 3 unless you are going to get an absolute superstar in return. Calderon+Bargs are talented players in their own regards, but not enough for TP.

The key is to try and analyze the situation (talent, salary cap, future...) and it is incredibly complex.
I still feel it would work, however what your saying makes perfect sense. the only thing is that to get talent you have to give up talent, unless you sign a player who was good 10 yrs ago. The spurs have been doing that and I think the last 2 seasons it caught up with them. I'm looking for players who are young and can be developed. I just dont feel Parker will stick around. Kinda like trade one of your better assets before you lose him completely. Parker has 2 more years on his contract, duncan 3. I highley doubt that parker will sign a big deal with the spurs when his contract is up. Hey thanks abunch for your thoughts, i gota run.

Marcus Bryant
05-13-2009, 06:47 PM
Why are the Spurs trading their best scorer, again?

ducks
05-13-2009, 07:46 PM
Why are the Spurs trading their best scorer, again?

that would be stupid
if you are afraid tp will not resign you would trade him later on his contract year not now anyhow

Knoxxx
05-15-2009, 09:34 PM
I still feel it would work, however what your saying makes perfect sense. the only thing is that to get talent you have to give up talent, unless you sign a player who was good 10 yrs ago. The spurs have been doing that and I think the last 2 seasons it caught up with them. I'm looking for players who are young and can be developed. I just dont feel Parker will stick around. Kinda like trade one of your better assets before you lose him completely. Parker has 2 more years on his contract, duncan 3. I highley doubt that parker will sign a big deal with the spurs when his contract is up. Hey thanks abunch for your thoughts, i gota run.

Disagree. TP and Eva are building a new home in S.A. and have no plans to leave. He is in for the duration.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/Will_Celebrity_Sell.html

Mr.Bottomtooth
05-17-2009, 06:20 PM
Miller for Bowen+Oberto (with Wolves waiving Bowen).
Re-sign Bowen.
Sign Pachulia (whom I think is the most reasonable choice for a big), McDyess, or Gortat, Nichols, and Gist.

C Pachulia/McDyess/Gortat|Thomas
PF Duncan|Mahinmi|Bonner
SF Miller|Bowen|Gist
SG Mason|Manu|Nichols
PG Parker|Hill

Mel_13
05-17-2009, 06:26 PM
Miller for Bowen+Oberto (with Wolves waiving Bowen).
Re-sign Bowen.
Sign Pachulia (whom I think is the most reasonable choice for a big), McDyess, or Gortat, Nichols, and Gist.

C Pachulia/McDyess/Gortat|Thomas
PF Duncan|Mahinmi|Bonner
SF Miller|Bowen|Gist
SG Mason|Manu|Nichols
PG Parker|Hill

you're well over the lux tax

DPG21920
05-17-2009, 09:11 PM
you're well over the lux tax

That is what I was saying to MB. I would love for the Spurs to trade Bruce/Oberto and get a player of need along with using the MLE. Problem is that it would put the Spurs about 5M over the luxury tax and I do not think they will do that.

Mel_13
05-17-2009, 09:50 PM
That is what I was saying to MB. I would love for the Spurs to trade Bruce/Oberto and get a player of need along with using the MLE. Problem is that it would put the Spurs about 5M over the luxury tax and I do not think they will do that.

Yep, the math is unavoidable. If the Oberto/Bowen deals are traded then the MLE cannot be used without going way over the tax.

lcroock
05-18-2009, 12:21 AM
The Spurs can trade Bowen/Oberto and then subsequently use the MLE, while still being below the luxury tax threshold. What the Spurs cannot do is trade Oberto/Bowen for someone who makes more than their combined salaries (within the limit, 120% I think). For example, Mike Miller makes $9M next year, and as such a deal of Bowen/Oberto ($5M or so) doesn't match up.
The Spurs would have to trade Bowen/Oberto for someone who makes no more than roughly $6M. There aren't many players at that salary who would be worth trading for. Nocioni is someone who is close to that range (at $7.5M) but that's a longshot. More players from both sides would have to be included.

The Spurs in most likelyhood will split the MLE between a couple of players (Gortat/Herman?), and will cut Bowen/Oberto before resigning Bruce for the minimum. Oberto seems to be done.

objective
05-18-2009, 12:33 AM
The Spurs can trade Bowen/Oberto and then subsequently use the MLE, while still being below the luxury tax threshold. What the Spurs cannot do is trade Oberto/Bowen for someone who makes more than their combined salaries (within the limit, 120% I think). For example, Mike Miller makes $9M next year, and as such a deal of Bowen/Oberto ($5M or so) doesn't match up.
The Spurs would have to trade Bowen/Oberto for someone who makes no more than roughly $6M. There aren't many players at that salary who would be worth trading for. Nocioni is someone who is close to that range (at $7.5M) but that's a longshot. More players from both sides would have to be included.

The Spurs in most likelyhood will split the MLE between a couple of players (Gortat/Herman?), and will cut Bowen/Oberto before resigning Bruce for the minimum. Oberto seems to be done.

your math is wrong. Bowen and Oberto combine on paper for 7.8 million

lcroock
05-18-2009, 01:26 AM
"your math is wrong. Bowen and Oberto combine on paper for 7.8 million"


If that's the case then we could theoretically trade the two of them plus a filler for Mike Miller, but we'd have to do so in time for Minnesota to be able to waive them (while their contracts are still non-guaranteed) so that the Wolves can obtain some cap relief, otherwise there is no point to the deal from their standpoint. This pertains to any player we trade for that only has 1 year left on his deal. I suppose the Spurs will pull off a deal by draft day if they can indeed make a trade for someone like Mike Miller who has 1 year left on his contract.

ss1986v2
05-18-2009, 01:49 AM
If that's the case then we could theoretically trade the two of them plus a filler for Mike Miller
still not enough to spend the MLE. not close really. current roster - bowen/oberto + mike miller = ~72 mil. already over the tax line, and we still havent filled out the roster.

objective
05-18-2009, 01:56 AM
"your math is wrong. Bowen and Oberto combine on paper for 7.8 million"


If that's the case then we could theoretically trade the two of them plus a filler for Mike Miller . . .

incorrect.

Use either the RealGM or ESPN trade checking pages listed on page 1 of this topic.

No filler needed.

and fwiw espn's salary numbers for Oberto are 200k less than the numbers off of shamsports' nba salaries pages that I used, doesn't change the particular trade proposal though.

Chieflion
05-18-2009, 06:19 AM
I just seen something on RealGM which I kind of like but not sure whether more incentives could be involved for the Spurs.

Tony Parker + Fabricio Oberto for

Randy Foye + Kevin Love + Mike Miller + Late 1st round pick + 2010 2nd rounder


Minnesota gets a star PG to pair with Al Jefferson for a chance to get into the playoffs.

San Antonio gets youth, a decent scorer and a young good big and a late 1st which they can convert to an early second or find a prospect they really like.


Just some fantasy basketball running through my head, but in the NBA, anything goes.

StoneBuddha
05-18-2009, 11:59 AM
Unfortunately, no trade that involves Tony Parker (without bringing back someone named Wade, Lebron or Kobe) improves the Spurs title hopes for the next 2-3 years.

Spurs most likely have to keep the big 3 and hope they can improve the team in other ways. They'll have to be pretty creative but it's doable if they are willing to spend the money... now, that's another story.

lcroock
05-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Nocioni might actually be the most realistic trade target, if SacTown is looking to shed some payroll. Noc's annual pay actually decreases after next season, from $7.5M to $6.8M to $6.6M. We know the Spurs have been interested in him in the past, and his salary is reasonable. This might be more realistic than signing someone like Marion/Ariza/Williams.

mountainballer
05-19-2009, 06:40 AM
as much as I'm a fan of Nocioni and would love to see him with the Spurs, "most realistic" also needs the Spurs FO to believe he is what the team needs. considering their last tries for big moves (as far as we know this have been Camby, Salmons and Miller, maybe also VC and Jefferson), Nocioni doesn't exactly fit the picture. so I don't think he is the #1 target this summer.

dbestpro
05-20-2009, 10:13 AM
Hammer away, but the way I see it the Clippers will not be able to get rid of Randolf who plays the same position as Griffin. Soooooooo, trade Parker for Davis and Griffin and whatever else to make the salaries match..............

Clips get what they need and the Spurs reload while still providing high caliber play for now.

portnoy1
05-20-2009, 02:11 PM
Hammer away, but the way I see it the Clippers will not be able to get rid of Randolf who plays the same position as Griffin. Soooooooo, trade Parker for Davis and Griffin and whatever else to make the salaries match..............

Clips get what they need and the Spurs reload while still providing high caliber play for now.
Baron davis is not a true point guard, He is like parker - shoot first and pass second. If we are going to trade parker we must get a solid point guard out of it along with talent that is good now and can be good now and can get better in the future.
Their are 4 YOUNG LEGIT point guards in the league. 1 - cp3 2 - D. Williams 3 - Rajon Rondo 4 - Jose Calderon. Each of those guys makes the game easier for their teammates. Parker and Davis only lighten the load for their teammates. Their is a huge difference. Chris Paul makes tyson chandler / david west better than they really are and maximizes their abilities. Deron williams ( Boozer / Korver ) Rajon Rondo ( Allen / Perkins )Calderon ( Parker / Bargnani / Kapono ). All of the guys mentioned are not as good as the point guards make them. Duncan can play 35-40 minutes and get 20-30 pts if he gets lay-ups and easy buckets. however parker doesn't make the game easier for him; rather he scores 25-30 pts of his own. thats great, but that only lightens duncans scoring load, not make the game easier. If we get a good young point guard and Center for parker its worth a deal. anything else puts the spurs in a bad position now and certainly in the future.

lcroock
05-20-2009, 05:22 PM
Baron davis is not a true point guard, He is like parker - shoot first and pass second. If we are going to trade parker we must get a solid point guard out of it along with talent that is good now and can be good now and can get better in the future.
Their are 4 YOUNG LEGIT point guards in the league. 1 - cp3 2 - D. Williams 3 - Rajon Rondo 4 - Jose Calderon. Each of those guys makes the game easier for their teammates. Parker and Davis only lighten the load for their teammates. Their is a huge difference. Chris Paul makes tyson chandler / david west better than they really are and maximizes their abilities. Deron williams ( Boozer / Korver ) Rajon Rondo ( Allen / Perkins )Calderon ( Parker / Bargnani / Kapono ). All of the guys mentioned are not as good as the point guards make them. Duncan can play 35-40 minutes and get 20-30 pts if he gets lay-ups and easy buckets. however parker doesn't make the game easier for him; rather he scores 25-30 pts of his own. thats great, but that only lightens duncans scoring load, not make the game easier. If we get a good young point guard and Center for parker its worth a deal. anything else puts the spurs in a bad position now and certainly in the future.


This is not an accurate assessment. Tony Parker plays pick and roll with either TD, Thomas, and Bonner. None of these guys are athletic like Boozer, Chandler or West. Tim is more of an isolation/post up player, Bonner is a spot up 3 point shooter, and the rest of the Spurs big men are not going to hurt you in a pick and roll game. Tony generates most of the Spurs offense because Tim doesn't generate as many double teams as he once did. We lead the league in 3 point % for a good part of the season, mainly due to TP's dribble penetration, not because Tim was kicking it out to open shooters. If Tony played with big guys who were more skilled/athletic (ala New Orleans) as well as perimeter guys who could move without the ball (ala Utah) the Spurs pick and roll game would look much better and Parker would get more assists. Paul and Williams would not make the Spurs any better than they are right now. The Spurs simply need more skilled players rather than one dimensional standstill shooters.

portnoy1
05-21-2009, 12:48 PM
great argument, can't really on that one disagree to much.

spursbird
05-23-2009, 07:01 AM
Manu for Barbosa and Robin Lopez
or Manu for Jerryd Bayless and Outlaw.
I know neither would happen, but the Blazers need a experienced veteran guard to help them in the playoffs.
I don't hate Manu, but his injury was a big problem.

StoneBuddha
05-23-2009, 04:24 PM
Manu for Barbosa and Robin Lopez
or Manu for Jerryd Bayless and Outlaw.
I know neither would happen, but the Blazers need a experienced veteran guard to help them in the playoffs.
I don't hate Manu, but his injury was a big problem.

You do realize how *horrendous* Robin Lopez was this season. He was getting called out by Shaq all season and eventually got benched for Louis Fabio.

TDMVPDPOY
05-23-2009, 09:53 PM
Hey someone should update the roster and list

whose draft rights we hold?

whose expiring contract?

mosdef17
05-24-2009, 07:54 AM
Hey someone should update the roster and list

whose draft rights we hold?

whose expiring contract?


Contracts:

Tim Duncan, forward
Age: 33
Contract status: Three years, $62.1 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $22,183,218
Future: Will remain an All-Star for as long as his knees will allow.

Tony Parker, guard
Age: 26
Contract status: Two years, $26.1 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $12,600,000
Future: Coming off the best season of his career. Indicator arrow pointing up, so long as he survives the summer injury free.

Manu Ginobili, guard
Age: 31
Contract status: One year, $10.7 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $10,725,000
Future: Injured almost from start to finish this season. Will have to prove his health before Spurs commit to extension.

Bruce Bowen, guard/forward
Age: 37
Contract status: One year, $4 million remaining (partially guaranteed).
09/10 Salary: $4,000,000
Future: In rotation, then out, then back in again, Bowen enjoyed revitalization during playoffs. Expiring contract makes for nice trading chip, either this summer or next season.

Matt Bonner, center/forward
Age: 29
Contract status: One year, $3.2 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $3,200,000
Future: Set to return next season, but manageable contract could find him on trade market.

Michael Finley, forward/guard
Age: 36
Contract status: One year, $2.5 million remaining (player option)
09/10 Salary: $2,500,000
Future: Has the option to return next season, but remains non-committal. Hard to see him passing up free money.

Roger Mason Jr., guard
Age: 28
Contract status: One year, $3.8 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $3,800,000
Future: Cooled after strong first half, but still very much in Spurs’ plans. Will become more valuable as he becomes more comfortable at the point.

Drew Gooden, forward/center
Age: 27
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: Spurs were pleased with his progress after late-season arrival, but DNP-CD in last game of the playoffs is troubling. Could be back, depending on offers he receives elsewhere.

Kurt Thomas, center/forward
Age: 36
Contract status: One year, $3.8 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $3,800,000
Future: Spurs like him for what he’s asked to provide. Like Bowen and Bonner, has an expiring contract that could be dealt easily.

Ime Udoka, forward/guard
Age: 31
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: For second year in a row, emerged as a dependable rotation piece late in the season. Return likely hinges on value of other offers.

George Hill, guard
Age: 22
Contract status: Three years, $3.2 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $1,081,680
Future: After solid rookie season, earned the trust of coaches in Games 4 and 5 of playoffs. Will see more time once he learns to be a point guard.

Fabricio Oberto, center/forward
Age: 34
Contract status: One year, $3.5 million remaining (partially guaranteed).
09/10 Salary: $3,500,000
Future: Fell completely out of rotation after returning from third bout of heart arrhythmia. Spurs could cut him loose for $1.9 million.

Jacque Vaughn, guard
Age: 34
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: Appeared in just 30 games, and would see even less time if Hill continues to emerge. Return doesn’t appear likely.

Ian Mahinmi, center
Age: 22
Contract status: Two years, $2.6 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $1,079,640
Future: Injury-plagued season was a disappointment for Spurs coaches, who still don’t know what they have in Mahinmi. Team has already picked up his option for next season, and he’ll play in summer league.

Marcus Williams, guard
Age: 23
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: A D-League player for now. Could come to camp with Spurs next season, or could generate greater interest elsewhere.


Unsigned Draft Picks

C: Robertas Javtokas, 2001 NBA Draft - 56th pick
C: Sergei Karaulov, 2004 NBA Draft - 58th pick
SF: Viktor Sanikidze, 2004 NBA Draft - 42nd pick
PF: Tiago Splitter, 2007 NBA Draft - 28th pick


Sorry if anything is incorrect.

Mel_13
05-24-2009, 08:32 AM
Sorry if anything is incorrect.

Link for your post:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_roster_analysis.html

Add Gist to unsigned draft picks

mosdef17
05-24-2009, 08:50 AM
Link for your post:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_roster_analysis.html

Add Gist to unsigned draft picks

I added in the 09/10 salaries and unsigned drafted players...

portnoy1
05-24-2009, 04:31 PM
Spurs send

Sf - Bowen / C -Oberto / Pf - Thomas
to Clippers For C - Kaman.

If the clippers maintain their pick they will have to give up some things and save money. They are kinda in the same boat as the wizards.

WHY?

spurs - by adding Kaman you come out $2 million richer. Also Kaman can rebound, defend ( block shots ) , shoot the J and post up. He is also only 27.

Clippers - You have Kurt thomas to make up for the rebounding you lose with Kaman. You have 2 players you can cut and get money back from. almost $4 million from the Bowen/Oberto contracts if you cut them.

Now the spurs still have some money to play with. Immediately sign Dahntay Jones 3 or 4 $million.

Then Sign James Singleton for a $1 Million, He is 6-8 and a good rebounder at the 3 and 4 positions, and is still in his 20's.

Then sign Theo Ratliff , Vet. Min. He is 36 yes, But is still strong and a good post defender and can block shots. He can be our Dikembe Mutumbo.


PF - Duncan / Mahinmi / Gist
SF - Singleton / D.Jones / M. williams
C - Kaman / Ratliff / Bonner
PG - Parker / Hill
SG - Mason Jr. / Manu

mosdef17
05-24-2009, 09:53 PM
Spurs send

Sf - Bowen / C -Oberto / Pf - Thomas
to Clippers For C - Kaman.

If the clippers maintain their pick they will have to give up some things and save money. They are kinda in the same boat as the wizards.

WHY?

spurs - by adding Kaman you come out $2 million richer. Also Kaman can rebound, defend ( block shots ) , shoot the J and post up. He is also only 27.

Clippers - You have Kurt thomas to make up for the rebounding you lose with Kaman. You have 2 players you can cut and get money back from. almost $4 million from the Bowen/Oberto contracts if you cut them.

Now the spurs still have some money to play with. Immediately sign Dahntay Jones 3 or 4 $million.

Then Sign James Singleton for a $1 Million, He is 6-8 and a good rebounder at the 3 and 4 positions, and is still in his 20's.

Then sign Theo Ratliff , Vet. Min. He is 36 yes, But is still strong and a good post defender and can block shots. He can be our Dikembe Mutumbo.


PF - Duncan / Mahinmi / Gist
SF - Singleton / D.Jones / M. williams
C - Kaman / Ratliff / Bonner
PG - Parker / Hill
SG - Mason Jr. / Manu

I will respectively disagree with basically all of that. We can do a lot better with what we have to offer other teams.

Instead of trading for the injury ridden Kaman I would like to see a strong move made at Richard Jefferson as the Bucks need to cut their contracts and need to find some cash to re-sign Charlie V and Ramon Sessions. According to ESPN trade machine a trade of Bowen, Bonner and Oberto would work. We could probably throw in a future second rounder or something. If the Bucks were looking to purely cut salaries this would be a good deal for them as Bowen and Oberto have partially guaranteed contracts. They would account for $7.5m in a trade but could be bought out for about $3.9m. Bowen I assume would probably come back to us an sign on for the rest of the season for the veterans minimum ($1.1m-ish).

Now, we still have the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $5.8m) to spend, we could offer that to someone like Chris Anderson, Gortat or Trevor Ariza. Most likely offer it to Anderson if we have RJ. Ariza would be awesome though but would most likely require the entire MLE while Anderson might play for $4m.

After these trades it leaves us with:

C: Kurt Thomas, (Chris Anderson/Gortat)
PF: Tim Duncan, Mahinmi
SF: Richard Jefferson, Bowen
SG: Mason Jr., Ginobili
PG: Parker, Hill

Not only that but I'm sure we could still offer the $1m to Singleton if needed. We would probably need more scoring from the PF/C positions (Gooden?) with the lineup I just proposed but I think we would be well on our way to fixing our problems.

portnoy1
05-25-2009, 04:28 PM
I would love to have chris anderson. He blocks shots and gets rebounds. Oh yeah and he throws down some vicious 2 hand dunks. He is a young 30yr old to. Unfortunately, Pop has an image thing, and I dont think Andersen fits in to that. Although his work ethic and what he provides are sorely needed, Pop would most likely go after A. Mcdyess, He is old and fits the spurs image. That will screw us for next season, but for some reason Pop does not like to venture outside of that old man thing. Knowing Pop he'll probably sign him to 10yr deal. I dont know why pop likes the old guys so much. their cool and all but after a while you have to get young blood. The only young guy that has stuck with the spurs is G.Hill and they already tried to involve him in a trade to get that old busted up geezer known as marcus camby.I like camby by the way, but still.

portnoy1
05-25-2009, 04:44 PM
I suggested Kaman because he is young and and has an array of big man skills. I really think we need a big man more than a small forward. Tim is getting older and needs more help downlow, not just defensively but offesively as well. Since Kaman is a 7'0 footer then we can go back to the twin towers. and then get an athletic , defensive small forward. I suggested Singleton because he is 6-8 and a good rebounder, that way when pop wants to go small he can put Singleton at the 4, unlike old 6-5 unathletic Udoka. Then Dahntay Jones could be the new younger more athletic bruce bowen. He can't shoot the 3 like bruce, but can drive to the cup and finish with authority unlike Bruce. Losing a 3pt shooter could be in the spurs best interest. They took alot of 3's last season, They made a good percent of them. Thats not why they took so many 3's though. They were very stagnant offensively, Parker would drive or Duncan would draw a double team, then they would kick out to Mason Jr. / Bonner / Finley for 3. Thats part of the reason we lose in the playoffs, they just werent hitting and we didnt have anyone who could really create they're own shot off the dribble and didnt have enough post play. I prefer Kaman because the more points you get on the Block the better, as opposed to Richard Jefferson slashing to the rim and also taking touches from Manu since they are both perimeter players. For instance; say Duncan is out for 3-5 games we have no post player and have to depend on our slashing skills. With Kaman we would still get a low-post scorer even though Tim would be out. and we Wouldnt lose any rebounding cause you can move Singleton to the 4 and He is great rebounder. The more Time he gets the better he rebounds. If you get a chance take a look at his game logs, they are very impressive, His season average HARDLY does him justice.

Udokafan05
05-25-2009, 11:05 PM
I will respectively disagree with basically all of that. We can do a lot better with what we have to offer other teams.

Instead of trading for the injury ridden Kaman I would like to see a strong move made at Richard Jefferson as the Bucks need to cut their contracts and need to find some cash to re-sign Charlie V and Ramon Sessions. According to ESPN trade machine a trade of Bowen, Bonner and Oberto would work. We could probably throw in a future second rounder or something. If the Bucks were looking to purely cut salaries this would be a good deal for them as Bowen and Oberto have partially guaranteed contracts. They would account for $7.5m in a trade but could be bought out for about $3.9m. Bowen I assume would probably come back to us an sign on for the rest of the season for the veterans minimum ($1.1m-ish).

Now, we still have the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $5.8m) to spend, we could offer that to someone like Chris Anderson, Gortat or Trevor Ariza. Most likely offer it to Anderson if we have RJ. Ariza would be awesome though but would most likely require the entire MLE while Anderson might play for $4m.

After these trades it leaves us with:

C: Kurt Thomas, (Chris Anderson/Gortat)
PF: Tim Duncan, Mahinmi
SF: Richard Jefferson, Bowen
SG: Mason Jr., Ginobili
PG: Parker, Hill

Not only that but I'm sure we could still offer the $1m to Singleton if needed. We would probably need more scoring from the PF/C positions (Gooden?) with the lineup I just proposed but I think we would be well on our way to fixing our problems.

That is best case senario

trajik dark
05-25-2009, 11:05 PM
I suggested Kaman because he is young and and has an array of big man skills. I really think we need a big man more than a small forward. Tim is getting older and needs more help downlow, not just defensively but offesively as well. Since Kaman is a 7'0 footer then we can go back to the twin towers. and then get an athletic , defensive small forward. I suggested Singleton because he is 6-8 and a good rebounder, that way when pop wants to go small he can put Singleton at the 4, unlike old 6-5 unathletic Udoka. Then Dahntay Jones could be the new younger more athletic bruce bowen. He can't shoot the 3 like bruce, but can drive to the cup and finish with authority unlike Bruce. Losing a 3pt shooter could be in the spurs best interest. They took alot of 3's last season, They made a good percent of them. Thats not why they took so many 3's though. They were very stagnant offensively, Parker would drive or Duncan would draw a double team, then they would kick out to Mason Jr. / Bonner / Finley for 3. Thats part of the reason we lose in the playoffs, they just werent hitting and we didnt have anyone who could really create they're own shot off the dribble and didnt have enough post play. I prefer Kaman because the more points you get on the Block the better, as opposed to Richard Jefferson slashing to the rim and also taking touches from Manu since they are both perimeter players. For instance; say Duncan is out for 3-5 games we have no post player and have to depend on our slashing skills. With Kaman we would still get a low-post scorer even though Tim would be out. and we Wouldnt lose any rebounding cause you can move Singleton to the 4 and He is great rebounder. The more Time he gets the better he rebounds. If you get a chance take a look at his game logs, they are very impressive, His season average HARDLY does him justice.kaman sucks and has for two season pop needs to take his head out of his ass and go for anderson

trajik dark
05-25-2009, 11:09 PM
I suggested Kaman because he is young and and has an array of big man skills. I really think we need a big man more than a small forward. Tim is getting older and needs more help downlow, not just defensively but offesively as well. Since Kaman is a 7'0 footer then we can go back to the twin towers. and then get an athletic , defensive small forward. I suggested Singleton because he is 6-8 and a good rebounder, that way when pop wants to go small he can put Singleton at the 4, unlike old 6-5 unathletic Udoka. Then Dahntay Jones could be the new younger more athletic bruce bowen. He can't shoot the 3 like bruce, but can drive to the cup and finish with authority unlike Bruce. Losing a 3pt shooter could be in the spurs best interest. They took alot of 3's last season, They made a good percent of them. Thats not why they took so many 3's though. They were very stagnant offensively, Parker would drive or Duncan would draw a double team, then they would kick out to Mason Jr. / Bonner / Finley for 3. Thats part of the reason we lose in the playoffs, they just werent hitting and we didnt have anyone who could really create they're own shot off the dribble and didnt have enough post play. I prefer Kaman because the more points you get on the Block the better, as opposed to Richard Jefferson slashing to the rim and also taking touches from Manu since they are both perimeter players. For instance; say Duncan is out for 3-5 games we have no post player and have to depend on our slashing skills. With Kaman we would still get a low-post scorer even though Tim would be out. and we Wouldnt lose any rebounding cause you can move Singleton to the 4 and He is great rebounder. The more Time he gets the better he rebounds. If you get a chance take a look at his game logs, they are very impressive, His season average HARDLY does him justice.we need young talent wit sum years under there belt thabo,carney, and the back up center for the magic will do


That is best case senario

venitian navigator
05-28-2009, 05:58 PM
blockbuster deal with g.s. : we send them all our expiring contracts including the "manageble ones" (Oberto + Bowen)

Mason - Oberto -Bowen -Finley - Bonner for Maggette - Turiaf - Randolph

Then they cut Bowen, Finley and Oberto ... we re-sign Bowen (and in case Finley)

MLE : Gortat

37th ch. : a play maker (Jarrells?)

Then sign our players of nbdl or overseas (Gist and M. Williams or Hairston or both in case we don't re-sign Finley)


Parker - Maggette - Ginobili - Duncan - Gortat
Hill - Finley (Hairston) - Bowen - Randolph - Turiaf
Jerrels - Hairston (M. Williams) - Gist - Mahinmi - Thomas

Why G.S. do that :
They want to get rid of Maggette and Randolph
They receive all expiring contracts
They need to re-build and they need to play the "young guns" for a season (Morrow, Bellinelli, Wright, their 7th choice this year) for creating a good mixage with the veterans thay choose (Jackson, Biedrins, Ellis...in case Crowford) eliminating all the players that can be distractions (Maggette, Randolph).
They receive a good player that is a good teammate (Mason) for a good player (Turiaf)

Why S.A. do that : They need talent

TDMVPDPOY
05-28-2009, 06:36 PM
why would gsw trade away there serviceable big men for a scrub in oberto, then they are only left with 1 big left....discluding oberto since he be bought out

mosdef17
05-28-2009, 08:35 PM
I don't even think that trade makes us much better. No way I want Maggette on our team, the guy doesn't realize a pass is a legal basketball move... Not to mention he is WAY overpaid and his contract is very long.

rayray2k8
05-28-2009, 09:24 PM
The official noob proposal trades. :)
For those who dream of Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Parker and Howard team go here.
http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy

Chieflion
05-29-2009, 08:15 PM
I saw another Parker trade on RealGM with the Clips/Minny involved. I will post it here and see what you guys think. I will try to edit it to make the deal more balanced.

Clippers trade Baron Davis for Fabricio Oberto + Kurt Thomas + Matt Bonner and 2011 1st round pick from SA (top 20 protected).

Minnesota trades Kevin Love + Mike Miller + Craig Smith + 2009 6th overall draft pick for Tony Parker and Tiago Splitter (stupid I know)

San Antonio trades Matt Bonner + 2011 1st round pick (top 20 protected) + Tiago Splitter + Tony Parker + Kurt Thomas + Fabricio Oberto for Baron Davis + Mike Miller + Craig Smoth + Kevin Love + 6th overall draft pick.

I think we should give them Mahinmi instead and keep the draft pick.

Stump
05-29-2009, 08:22 PM
I saw another Parker trade on RealGM with the Clips/Minny involved. I will post it here and see what you guys think. I will try to edit it to make the deal more balanced.

Clippers trade Baron Davis for Fabricio Oberto + Kurt Thomas + Matt Bonner and 2011 1st round pick from SA (top 20 protected).

Minnesota trades Kevin Love + Mike Miller + Craig Smith + 2009 6th overall draft pick for Tony Parker and Tiago Splitter (stupid I know)

San Antonio trades Matt Bonner + 2011 1st round pick (top 20 protected) + Tiago Splitter + Tony Parker + Kurt Thomas + Fabricio Oberto for Baron Davis + Mike Miller + Craig Smoth + Kevin Love + 6th overall draft pick.

I think we should give them Mahinmi instead and keep the draft pick.
Um, no.

DPG21920
05-29-2009, 08:54 PM
Guys, if the Spurs trade Parker they are toast unless they get an absolute super star in return which is not happening.

I mean that with regard to winning a title in the next few years. If the Spurs say lets rebuild, then maybe you can explore a reasonable package.

The Beat Counselor
06-04-2009, 03:41 AM
So here's my take:

Assuming that Ginobili is healthy all next season (it's a big if, and thank God there are no Olympics this year), our weaknesses are obviously at small forward and center. We also desperately need to get younger.

However much I hate the Lakers, I gotta say, Trevor Ariza never fails to impress me. His defensive tenacity, quickness, vertical and basketball IQ are impressive and as he's shown in the playoffs he can hit that open 3 so opponents won't be able to leave him to double team. With Bowen getting older and slower, acquiring the 23 year-old Ariza in free agency this summer would be a perfect replacement.

As for the 25 year-old Marcin Gortat, as mentioned elsewhere on this forum, he's a legit 7 footer that has performed nicely as Dwight Howard's backup. He's a very good rebounder and during the playoffs he's 8th among all centers according to John Hollinger's PER. There's been questions on this board as to why Gortat doesn't play along side Howard and as far as I can tell, the main reason is because SVG likes to spread the floor with Lewis at the 4 (along with Lewis being a questionable perimeter defender when he plays the 3).

So if there's any way we can pull this off, we'd have:

PG: Parker & Hill
SG: Ginobli & Mason
SF: Ariza & ? (Bowen/Finley/Udoka)
PF: Duncan & Bonner
C: Gortat & ? (Oberto/Thomas)


Not really sure if we can pull this off financially, but this sounds like a solid team to me. We would still need to get younger and I'd still like some more depth and size at center, but Hill and Mason were more than capable backups. Bonner is a fine option coming off the bench to spread the floor at the 4, Euro-ball style.

It's likely that Gortat will be available, since he'll be looking to start next season. I'd guess Ariza will be the kink in this scenario, since I'm guessing the Lakers would resign him before Odom--less money, less drama and more consistency.

So that's what I got. Whatcha think?


Go Spurs Go!

ss1986v2
06-05-2009, 02:07 AM
ok, this isnt a totally serious proposal, but i was bored and figured id do something i dont do very often: play around with the trade checker. does this make any sense for the teams involved, or is it too far off base?

san antonio trades: manu + bowen + oberto
san antonio receives: jefferson + pecherov + elson + mcguire/crittenton + #5

why for san antonio: theres a good bit of negative here (losing manu, no big moves come 2010), but there is also a lot of good. jefferson can replace a lot of the production of manu, plus they net a decent lotto pick (id love for harden to slip, but hill wouldnt be the worst here either). our team still looks to be able to compete in the short-term, while netting us a good piece to help out in the future as well.

washington trades: james + pecherov + mcguire/crittenton + #5
washington receives: manu

why for washington: they accomplish what they have been apparently trying to do, which is move out of the #5 spot and acquire some veteran help. and while its a bit risky, i think its decent value. i dont know how greatly the wiz value mcguire, but one of him or critt has to be included in the deal to make the money end work.

milwaukee trades: jefferson + elson (picks up his PO)
milwaukee receives: james + bowen + oberto

why for milwaukee: they move jeffersons contract (which they seem to have been trying to do), all while trimming their books of almost 6 mil in salary, helping to free up a bit more room to resign CV and sessions.

i thought about finding a 4th team to possibly take on pech or critt for nothing (got tired). someone with a large enough TPE or some cap space could absorb one of those contracts and the spurs could send some cash their way for the trouble (along with a 2nd pick maybe). that could possibly help the spurs a bit with the tax issue. still doesnt leave enough room to do anything with our MLE though.

so is this too far off base?

Mel_13
06-05-2009, 09:16 AM
why for washington: they accomplish what they have been apparently trying to do, which is move out of the #5 spot and acquire some veteran help.

still doesnt leave enough room to do anything with our MLE though.


so is this too far off base?

Scenarios built around Jefferson for Manu plus Oberto or Bowen fall well within the realm of trades which could happen and have obvious benefits for both teams.

Trying to spin Washington and the #5 pick into the deal is where the scenario ventures towards fantasy. The bolded quote is based on a throwaway line in some guy's blog and probably has no basis in fact. Why does a team with three highly paid veteran all-stars want to give up the #5 pick to get another veteran? Especially a veteran at a position that is already well manned on the team. I can see Washington moving the #5 pick as part of deal to get rid of Jamison's contract and get a veteran forward on a smaller deal in return. But trading small and expiring contracts to get back a SG on an expiring contract seems like very poor value for the #5 pick.

And as you noted about the MLE, if the Spurs trade the Bowen/Oberto contracts then they cannot use the MLE without going well over the luxury tax. Those two contracts are the best pieces to use in a deal for a player being salary dumped. They are also the best pieces, once they are cut, to clear enough space to use the MLE. But they can't be used for both.

Chieflion
06-05-2009, 10:44 AM
ok, this isnt a totally serious proposal, but i was bored and figured id do something i dont do very often: play around with the trade checker. does this make any sense for the teams involved, or is it too far off base?

san antonio trades: manu + bowen + oberto
san antonio receives: jefferson + pecherov + elson + mcguire/crittenton + #5

why for san antonio: theres a good bit of negative here (losing manu, no big moves come 2010), but there is also a lot of good. jefferson can replace a lot of the production of manu, plus they net a decent lotto pick (id love for harden to slip, but hill wouldnt be the worst here either). our team still looks to be able to compete in the short-term, while netting us a good piece to help out in the future as well.

washington trades: james + pecherov + mcguire/crittenton + #5
washington receives: manu

why for washington: they accomplish what they have been apparently trying to do, which is move out of the #5 spot and acquire some veteran help. and while its a bit risky, i think its decent value. i dont know how greatly the wiz value mcguire, but one of him or critt has to be included in the deal to make the money end work.

milwaukee trades: jefferson + elson (picks up his PO)
milwaukee receives: james + bowen + oberto

why for milwaukee: they move jeffersons contract (which they seem to have been trying to do), all while trimming their books of almost 6 mil in salary, helping to free up a bit more room to resign CV and sessions.

i thought about finding a 4th team to possibly take on pech or critt for nothing (got tired). someone with a large enough TPE or some cap space could absorb one of those contracts and the spurs could send some cash their way for the trouble (along with a 2nd pick maybe). that could possibly help the spurs a bit with the tax issue. still doesnt leave enough room to do anything with our MLE though.

so is this too far off base?
No shit.

draft87
06-06-2009, 07:20 AM
Contracts:

Tim Duncan, forward
Age: 33
Contract status: Three years, $62.1 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $22,183,218
Future: Will remain an All-Star for as long as his knees will allow.

Tony Parker, guard
Age: 26
Contract status: Two years, $26.1 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $12,600,000
Future: Coming off the best season of his career. Indicator arrow pointing up, so long as he survives the summer injury free.

Manu Ginobili, guard
Age: 31
Contract status: One year, $10.7 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $10,725,000
Future: Injured almost from start to finish this season. Will have to prove his health before Spurs commit to extension.

Bruce Bowen, guard/forward
Age: 37
Contract status: One year, $4 million remaining (partially guaranteed).
09/10 Salary: $4,000,000
Future: In rotation, then out, then back in again, Bowen enjoyed revitalization during playoffs. Expiring contract makes for nice trading chip, either this summer or next season.

Matt Bonner, center/forward
Age: 29
Contract status: One year, $3.2 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $3,200,000
Future: Set to return next season, but manageable contract could find him on trade market.

Michael Finley, forward/guard
Age: 36
Contract status: One year, $2.5 million remaining (player option)
09/10 Salary: $2,500,000
Future: Has the option to return next season, but remains non-committal. Hard to see him passing up free money.

Roger Mason Jr., guard
Age: 28
Contract status: One year, $3.8 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $3,800,000
Future: Cooled after strong first half, but still very much in Spurs’ plans. Will become more valuable as he becomes more comfortable at the point.

Drew Gooden, forward/center
Age: 27
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: Spurs were pleased with his progress after late-season arrival, but DNP-CD in last game of the playoffs is troubling. Could be back, depending on offers he receives elsewhere.

Kurt Thomas, center/forward
Age: 36
Contract status: One year, $3.8 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $3,800,000
Future: Spurs like him for what he’s asked to provide. Like Bowen and Bonner, has an expiring contract that could be dealt easily.

Ime Udoka, forward/guard
Age: 31
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: For second year in a row, emerged as a dependable rotation piece late in the season. Return likely hinges on value of other offers.

George Hill, guard
Age: 22
Contract status: Three years, $3.2 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $1,081,680
Future: After solid rookie season, earned the trust of coaches in Games 4 and 5 of playoffs. Will see more time once he learns to be a point guard.

Fabricio Oberto, center/forward
Age: 34
Contract status: One year, $3.5 million remaining (partially guaranteed).
09/10 Salary: $3,500,000
Future: Fell completely out of rotation after returning from third bout of heart arrhythmia. Spurs could cut him loose for $1.9 million.

Jacque Vaughn, guard
Age: 34
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: Appeared in just 30 games, and would see even less time if Hill continues to emerge. Return doesn’t appear likely.

Ian Mahinmi, center
Age: 22
Contract status: Two years, $2.6 million remaining
09/10 Salary: $1,079,640
Future: Injury-plagued season was a disappointment for Spurs coaches, who still don’t know what they have in Mahinmi. Team has already picked up his option for next season, and he’ll play in summer league.

Marcus Williams, guard
Age: 23
Contract status: Free agent
09/10 Salary: N/A
Future: A D-League player for now. Could come to camp with Spurs next season, or could generate greater interest elsewhere.


Unsigned Draft Picks

C: Robertas Javtokas, 2001 NBA Draft - 56th pick
C: Sergei Karaulov, 2004 NBA Draft - 58th pick
SF: Viktor Sanikidze, 2004 NBA Draft - 42nd pick
PF: Tiago Splitter, 2007 NBA Draft - 28th pick


Sorry if anything is incorrect.




crap, i just made a spreadsheet to post here but i did last seasons salaries. i forgot to look on mysa.com for these updated #s

well, here's the link

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r8EU6BIOlCL8UJxTuU9UemA&output=html

i can make a new one with your #s. but i did this to help the think tank. since many people have been coming up with trades(some are realistic for both/all teams, some are well intended but not practical, and some are just pure fantasy) i think a spreadsheet showing the positions to fill and the salaries to match the cap/tax threshold will help put things into perspective for the brainstorming.

i didin't set it to accept updates, otherwise i'd lose all my data, but hopefully people can copy this(or insert these 2010 updated salaries) and then fill in 2-4 columns of an updated 2010 roster. this way we you could see that a lineup of duncan, ian, (possibly the greek), turiaf, randolph wouldn't work cause these players would never get the minutes they'd need to get a rhythm or simply not get the minutes they'd want. the 15 man roster is essentially a guideline to have 3 players for each position. 3 point guards, 3 shooting guards, etc.

try this out. i'll even try to make an example and post it.

draft87
06-06-2009, 07:46 AM
crap, i just made a spreadsheet to post here but i did last seasons salaries. i forgot to look on mysa.com for these updated #s

well, here's the link

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r8EU6BIOlCL8UJxTuU9UemA&output=html

i can make a new one with your #s. but i did this to help the think tank. since many people have been coming up with trades(some are realistic for both/all teams, some are well intended but not practical, and some are just pure fantasy) i think a spreadsheet showing the positions to fill and the salaries to match the cap/tax threshold will help put things into perspective for the brainstorming.

i didin't set it to accept updates, otherwise i'd lose all my data, but hopefully people can copy this(or insert these 2010 updated salaries) and then fill in 2-4 columns of an updated 2010 roster. this way we you could see that a lineup of duncan, ian, (possibly the greek), turiaf, randolph wouldn't work cause these players would never get the minutes they'd need to get a rhythm or simply not get the minutes they'd want. the 15 man roster is essentially a guideline to have 3 players for each position. 3 point guards, 3 shooting guards, etc.

try this out. i'll even try to make an example and post it.



ok, i added a second sheet on the link. at the bottom of the page look at 'sample attempt 1'

it has a projected 2010 roster.
it's got:
-ariza as starting 3. i'm assuming we sign him at MLE or some kinda decent contract that lakers can't match.
-bowen stays
-finley opts in
-mahinmi starts

-oberto is gone(trade,buy out?)
-vaughn and udoka are not resigned
-marcus williams gets bounced between the toros and some playing time
-we bring back hairston and mensah-bonsu
-sign gooden to a deal similar to mason's from last summer
-kurt thomas is the new kevin willis

i don't expect this to actually happen, it looks like the salaries go over the tax threshold, but it's an example of how to get things to add up rosterwise and capwise. i brought the 'rookies' williams, hairston, mensah bonsu. all had shown promise and they also mean small contracts.

hopefully we can get some creative lineups that improve the 3 and 5 spots while getting the payroll somewhere in the FO style.

ask yourself do you want gooden back for how much? how many minutes shoulld he play? is there another 4 floating around that we can sign? or someone we can trade for? somebody try the camby trade and how many roster spots we have to fill to get it going. or try signing splitter to a GIGANTIC deal that will compensate him directly(not in violation of the nba rules) for the buying out of his european deal)

Sdayi135
06-09-2009, 03:45 PM
I will respectively disagree with basically all of that. We can do a lot better with what we have to offer other teams.

Instead of trading for the injury ridden Kaman I would like to see a strong move made at Richard Jefferson as the Bucks need to cut their contracts and need to find some cash to re-sign Charlie V and Ramon Sessions. According to ESPN trade machine a trade of Bowen, Bonner and Oberto would work. We could probably throw in a future second rounder or something. If the Bucks were looking to purely cut salaries this would be a good deal for them as Bowen and Oberto have partially guaranteed contracts. They would account for $7.5m in a trade but could be bought out for about $3.9m. Bowen I assume would probably come back to us an sign on for the rest of the season for the veterans minimum ($1.1m-ish).

Now, we still have the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $5.8m) to spend, we could offer that to someone like Chris Anderson, Gortat or Trevor Ariza. Most likely offer it to Anderson if we have RJ. Ariza would be awesome though but would most likely require the entire MLE while Anderson might play for $4m.

After these trades it leaves us with:

C: Kurt Thomas, (Chris Anderson/Gortat)
PF: Tim Duncan, Mahinmi
SF: Richard Jefferson, Bowen
SG: Mason Jr., Ginobili
PG: Parker, Hill

Not only that but I'm sure we could still offer the $1m to Singleton if needed. We would probably need more scoring from the PF/C positions (Gooden?) with the lineup I just proposed but I think we would be well on our way to fixing our problems.

I like this idea out of all of the ones I've seen so far.

yavozerb
06-10-2009, 05:47 PM
I think this kid has 1 year on his contract (help me out Bruno):
Sasha Pavlovic
25 years old
6'8 215 sg/sf

The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that guard Sasha Pavlovic is not likely to be back with the Cavaliers next season.

This kid has the skill and size to be a very good NBA player. Not sure if he has the drive or the practice habits though. Very interesting player though cause he can score and play pretty good D.

Bruno
06-10-2009, 05:55 PM
I think this kid has 1 year on his contract (help me out Bruno):
Sasha Pavlovic
25 years old
6'8 215 sg/sf

The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that guard Sasha Pavlovic is not likely to be back with the Cavaliers next season.

This kid has the skill and size to be a very good NBA player. Not sure if he has the drive or the practice habits though. Very interesting player though cause he can score and play pretty good D.

Pavlovic's contract for next year is only $1.5M guaranteed for a total salary of $4.75M.
They can/will waive him to save some money.

Fabbs
06-12-2009, 08:38 AM
Bring in Bob Horry to coach the Spurs.

Sissiborgo
06-13-2009, 08:50 AM
We should try to get Jerrels he is the type of guy we need quick he can shoot! and he can dribble! the best thing for us!:fro

ffadicted
06-13-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm bored with this extra day off from the finals, don't judge me

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mxyejq

Hello 83 - (-1) regular season :toast


Also:


I will respectively disagree with basically all of that. We can do a lot better with what we have to offer other teams.

Instead of trading for the injury ridden Kaman I would like to see a strong move made at Richard Jefferson as the Bucks need to cut their contracts and need to find some cash to re-sign Charlie V and Ramon Sessions. According to ESPN trade machine a trade of Bowen, Bonner and Oberto would work. We could probably throw in a future second rounder or something. If the Bucks were looking to purely cut salaries this would be a good deal for them as Bowen and Oberto have partially guaranteed contracts. They would account for $7.5m in a trade but could be bought out for about $3.9m. Bowen I assume would probably come back to us an sign on for the rest of the season for the veterans minimum ($1.1m-ish).

Now, we still have the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $5.8m) to spend, we could offer that to someone like Chris Anderson, Gortat or Trevor Ariza. Most likely offer it to Anderson if we have RJ. Ariza would be awesome though but would most likely require the entire MLE while Anderson might play for $4m.

After these trades it leaves us with:

C: Kurt Thomas, (Chris Anderson/Gortat)
PF: Tim Duncan, Mahinmi
SF: Richard Jefferson, Bowen
SG: Mason Jr., Ginobili
PG: Parker, Hill

Not only that but I'm sure we could still offer the $1m to Singleton if needed. We would probably need more scoring from the PF/C positions (Gooden?) with the lineup I just proposed but I think we would be well on our way to fixing our problems.

I think this is the best idea I've seen here, but it seems like a pipedream, no?

mosdef17
06-14-2009, 03:27 AM
Thanks to the three people that said they liked my scenario as one of the better ones in this thread. It may or may not be possible, I was just trying to make the point that the Spurs trade assets can be better used then on Marcus Camby as most people were suggesting to do. Trading for Camby and then trying to get Ariza with the full MLE (roughly 5 years $30m) would be okay, but I don't think there is a HUGE difference in Camby, Gortat and Anderson except in the price. Gortat and Anderson would probably play for less then the mid-level exception, maybe a deal around 3-4 years $13m for 3 years or 17m for 4. We then have our most valuable assets, the partially guaranteed contracts still to use. My scenarion may not be possible, but it could be?

mountainballer
06-14-2009, 07:10 AM
ok, i added a second sheet on the link. at the bottom of the page look at 'sample attempt 1'

it has a projected 2010 roster.
it's got:
-ariza as starting 3. i'm assuming we sign him at MLE or some kinda decent contract that lakers can't match.
-bowen stays
-finley opts in
-mahinmi starts

-oberto is gone(trade,buy out?)
-vaughn and udoka are not resigned
-marcus williams gets bounced between the toros and some playing time
-we bring back hairston and mensah-bonsu
-sign gooden to a deal similar to mason's from last summer
-kurt thomas is the new kevin willis

i don't expect this to actually happen, it looks like the salaries go over the tax threshold, but it's an example of how to get things to add up rosterwise and capwise. i brought the 'rookies' williams, hairston, mensah bonsu. all had shown promise and they also mean small contracts.

hopefully we can get some creative lineups that improve the 3 and 5 spots while getting the payroll somewhere in the FO style.

ask yourself do you want gooden back for how much? how many minutes shoulld he play? is there another 4 floating around that we can sign? or someone we can trade for? somebody try the camby trade and how many roster spots we have to fill to get it going. or try signing splitter to a GIGANTIC deal that will compensate him directly(not in violation of the nba rules) for the buying out of his european deal)

sorry, but your big plan (and sheet) shows some mistakes. you can't sign a player like Ariza for the MLE AND sign Gooden for 3 million.
you also can't sign players like Hairston, Williams or Bonsu for more than minimum (or one of them for BAE), when you already have spent your MLE.
(and btw. all salary numbers you used in your scenario sheet are wrong. you better study this: http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp)

and finally: I agree that getting Ariza would be pretty nice, BUT why should he ever leave the Lakers for the MLE?? Lakers will pay their starting SF at least this kind of money and could top any MLE offer by using bird rights. even some lux tax $ don't matter for a team like the Lakers, especially when they will try to keep their championship core together. and Ariza himself will not want to leave. he is a UCLA guy and he was totally happy when he was traded to LA. he will be the starting SF on a contender team for several more years, quite a more attractive option than what the Spurs could offer. so forget about Ariza. (if the Spurs in fact plan to spend the whole MLE on a wing, Josh Childress might be a more realistic option. in the current situation, they need to re sign Bibby, Williams and Pachulia and Joe Johnson 2010, it's unlikely that the Hawks would match a MLE bid)

mountainballer
06-15-2009, 08:08 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=odomariza-090613

One free agent supposedly being targeted by the Pistons is Chicago Bulls guard Ben Gordon, a scenario that would make even more sense if the rumors about their interest in trading Richard Hamilton are true.

hmm, Rip has one more year at 11.6 million. he is 31 and should have enough left in his tank. in terms of scoring and creating ability he would fill a need. his defense is also better than what all Spurs wings (still except Bruce) were able to provide in the last season, even if he isn't able to shut down the big SFs.
Spurs only have a chance if they offer the best salary dump scenario possible. (which could of course be outbid by some other teams though)
this would be: Fab+Bruce+RM+Ian for Rip+Amir Johnson.
if the Pistons waive Fab and Bruce, they increase their cap space for about 7 million to estimated 26 million. then they could go for 2 top players if they wanted, (like Gordon plus Odom or Boozer), still re sign McDyess and sign their #15 pick.

EDIT: damn, forget it. I just found out that Hamilton has signed a 3 years extension 2008 for 34 million. 11.3 million per, that's to much IMO. no wonder why the Pistons try to dump this contract.

venitian navigator
06-15-2009, 10:29 AM
The first point is to decide if we have to stick with the 2010 plan or, at least, with the chance to sign Splitter in that year...
If they stick with the plan, then next season will be a tanking - rebuilding one...and the conversations of trading Manu can begin.
But I doubt that the F.O. has come to the resolution of wasting one of the last years when the big three and will decide to stay with Manu AND try this year to give them the best supporting cast in years...
And, all things considered, maybe that could be the best choice for some reasons...
The first one is that Splitter is not and never will be a sure thing.
He could be just a peace of the puzzle (a good one, indeed) but not a player comparable to Tim...and, also, we still can't know what kind of decisions he will ever take (stay in Europe or coming).
The second one is that we've always seen how players are not so enticed to come to S.A. (see Kidd, O'Neal...) so we don't have so many weapons to convince them to come also if we have the money...and in 2010 we're gonna compete with a lot of teams with cap space.
Third thing is that we have NOW the chances to be a player in the market FROM NOW TILL THIS FEBRUARY...these chances are colled EXPIRING CONTRACTS

Imho next season have to be a necessary rebouilding one, but in the Celtics way : for winning as soon as possible...maybe not the some year (for obvious chemistry reasons) but the two years after.
I hope that, after all the success we had, Holt we'll not be so against paiyng the luxury tax for the last years that the big three will be available at their best.

So imho the time to move is now!

And the first move have to be a trade of our "gonna be cut" players like are Bowen and Oberto for the best player available for the package.
This have to come before or during the draft...'cause after 1 july the contracts of Bowen and Oberto will became fully guaranteed !

So, ther's a player we could need and that a team could give us ?
We need, most of all, two things : a) a second big; b) a strong wing player.

Who could be available for that price (I mean Bowen, Oberto, maybe with another expiring like Mason or Thomas or Bonner and one or more second choices) ?

Some names : G/SF : Maggette; Jackson; Jefferson; Miller;

Pf/C : Camby; Kaman; Murphy.

After that, we could decide where to spend the MLE and, in case, the LLE.
The needs are the some, but we'll decide after the choice written before...so a g/sf or a Pf/C depending on what we've already obtained.

Some names with the MLE :
Free agent G/SF :Moon; Ariza;
Free agent pf/C : Odom; Marion; Wallace; MC Dyess; Gortat; Gooden.

Some names possibly available with the LLE :

G/SF : M. Daniels; R. Davis

PF/C : Nesterovic

Then, last thing to do, we'll wait till the deadline and try to sell our remaining expiring contracts for the best player available...

Mel_13
06-15-2009, 10:50 AM
I hope that, after all the success we had, Holt we'll not be so against paiyng the luxury tax for the last years that the big three will be available at their best.


And the first move have to be a trade of our "gonna be cut" players like are Bowen and Oberto for the best player available for the package.


After that, we could decide where to spend the MLE and, in case, the LLE.



Even if the Spurs go over the tax line, they are not going to go way over it.

Once you trade Oberto and Bowen, you can't use the MLE (and in your example, the LLE as well) without adding a ton of money to payroll. In your example, if the Spurs trade Oberto and Bowen and then use the MLE and the LLE, they will exceed the tax line by 7-10M. Then add the dollar for dollar tax of 7-10M and the loss of the tax distribution of the 2-3M. You have now added 16-23M to the overall payroll.

That's not going to happen.

You can cut Oberto and Bowen to position the Spurs to use the full MLE or you can trade them for the best salary dump player available. But you can't trade them and then use the MLE.

venitian navigator
06-15-2009, 11:10 AM
Even if the Spurs go over the tax line, they are not going to go way over it.

Once you trade Oberto and Bowen, you can't use the MLE (and in your example, the LLE as well) without adding a ton of money to payroll. In your example, if the Spurs trade Oberto and Bowen and then use the MLE and the LLE, they will exceed the tax line by 7-10M. Then add the dollar for dollar tax of 7-10M and the loss of the tax distribution of the 2-3M. You have now added 16-23M to the overall payroll.

That's not going to happen.

You can cut Oberto and Bowen to position the Spurs to use the full MLE or you can trade them for the best salary dump player available. But you can't trade them and then use the MLE.

Well, in this case no way we can build anything near a championship team...in your example we stay practically with the some team...considering that we should give the MLE to Gooden (that we had last year) or a player older than him (Wallace; Mc Dyess...)...and nobody new at the wings except, maybe, our nbdl'rs (M. Willliams; Hairston).
If you're right...no way, imho, we'll be contenders again (maybe just if Mahinmi is the second coming of Russell).
The old legs of Gino and Timmy really need somebody valuable to give them some rest...without compromising the games!

Mel_13
06-15-2009, 11:22 AM
Well, in this case no way we can build anything near a championship team...in your example we stay practically with the some team...considering that we should give the MLE to Gooden (that we had last year) or a player older than him (Wallace; Mc Dyess...)...and nobody new at the wings except, maybe, our nbdl'rs (M. Willliams; Hairston).
If you're right...no way, imho, we'll be contenders again (maybe just if Mahinmi is the second coming of Russell).
The old legs of Gino and Timmy really need somebody valuable to give them some rest...without compromising the games!

And this is the reality that Spurs fans have to accept. The Spurs have enjoyed an historic run of success. Since the merger only three other teams can rival them, the Showtime Lakers, the Jordan Bulls, and the Bird/McHale Celtics.

All of those eras ended and those franchises dropped from the ranks of championship contenders. The Bulls have not yet returned, the Celtics were mostly irrelevant for 15 years, and the Lakers went five years without winning a playoff series. It is the natural order of things.

Are the Duncan Spurs at the end or do they have one more run in them? I think it is far more likely that they are at the end, but as fans we hope for the best.

In any event, the Spurs are not going to add 15-20M to the payroll to delay the inevitable.

loveforthegame
06-15-2009, 11:35 AM
And this is the reality that Spurs fans have to accept.

Exactly.

Too many are expecting a trade to happen that will bring in that small forward or big man help. We have, what, 4 roster spots open with Vaughn, Udoka, Williams, and Gooden gone?

I expect the same team back but a few adjustments. 2 free agent signings to replace Gooden and Udoka. And then one of the Toro's players and one of this years draft picks replacing Vaughn and Williams.

venitian navigator
06-16-2009, 11:06 AM
And this is the reality that Spurs fans have to accept. The Spurs have enjoyed an historic run of success. Since the merger only three other teams can rival them, the Showtime Lakers, the Jordan Bulls, and the Bird/McHale Celtics.

All of those eras ended and those franchises dropped from the ranks of championship contenders. The Bulls have not yet returned, the Celtics were mostly irrelevant for 15 years, and the Lakers went five years without winning a playoff series. It is the natural order of things.

Are the Duncan Spurs at the end or do they have one more run in them? I think it is far more likely that they are at the end, but as fans we hope for the best.

In any event, the Spurs are not going to add 15-20M to the payroll to delay the inevitable.


The point is, for the moment, not inevitable...
Like you said, franchises wait for years just to have the chance to be real contenders.
For a team like S.A. not being contenders for many, many years would be unbearable...
Like Holt said, the team is in good financial shape...and that's normal since we've been in the play offs for a lot of years consecutively...making so a lot more money than teams out of play offs.
Well, this money, IMHO, can be used for a two/three year run at a title that is still posible with the current core of the big three plus some other valuable guys...we don't have to break the bank permanently, but for a limitae space of time...and the we can start re-building.
I mean, in conclusion, that an investment of 10/20 millions in salary + lux tax can be worth in case with this we have 10/20 more playoffs games...and, first of al, a chance to still be real contenders for 2/three years.

MajorMike
06-16-2009, 12:24 PM
Kaman for expiring contracts of Bowen, Bonner and Fab.

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5116887

ffadicted
06-16-2009, 04:34 PM
Kaman for expiring contracts of Bowen, Bonner and Fab.

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5116887

Clippers would prob do it to free a roster spot for Griffin, but that contract of his isn't too good looking for the Spurs

Mel_13
06-16-2009, 09:16 PM
The point is, for the moment, not inevitable...
Like you said, franchises wait for years just to have the chance to be real contenders.
For a team like S.A. not being contenders for many, many years would be unbearable...
Like Holt said, the team is in good financial shape...and that's normal since we've been in the play offs for a lot of years consecutively...making so a lot more money than teams out of play offs.
Well, this money, IMHO, can be used for a two/three year run at a title that is still posible with the current core of the big three plus some other valuable guys...we don't have to break the bank permanently, but for a limitae space of time...and the we can start re-building.
I mean, in conclusion, that an investment of 10/20 millions in salary + lux tax can be worth in case with this we have 10/20 more playoffs games...and, first of al, a chance to still be real contenders for 2/three years.

You may see value in such an expenditure of money, but it is not your money at risk or your job on the line. The Spurs have survived in this market, against long odds, through a combination of good fortune and good management. Additional spending of the type you suggest guarantees nothing on the court (see Dallas, NY, and Cleveland), but does put the financial health of the franchise at risk. It will not happen.

And if you want to talk about an unbearable situation for a city and a fanbase, ask the folks in Seattle.

venitian navigator
06-17-2009, 05:32 AM
You may see value in such an expenditure of money, but it is not your money at risk or your job on the line. The Spurs have survived in this market, against long odds, through a combination of good fortune and good management. Additional spending of the type you suggest guarantees nothing on the court (see Dallas, NY, and Cleveland), but does put the financial health of the franchise at risk. It will not happen.

And if you want to talk about an unbearable situation for a city and a fanbase, ask the folks in Seattle.

I cannot agree on this.
First of all I cheer for Spurs and not of the dead Seattle team ...(but I like the "new" Seattle team, alias Oklahoma Thunder).
Second, I don't think that overspending for a limited amont of time, like two/three years years will broke the team finances...after ten years of money coming from our play-offs run (four till the end) without paying the lux tax.
Imho, in this league, when you have a chance to compete for the title, you have to take it...Imho we'll be competitive just till the big three will play at their level ...evidence is we lost last two years just because of bad health conditions of one or two of the big three...with nobody else capable of supporting the team as they did.
Things are not gonna change, the risk of bad health conditions for one or more of the big three is the some or more 'cause age doesn't come back...and we just have been beated at the first round of play offs.
No play off game means a lot less money.
You can't play Manu and Tim like they're both 25...and Tim is under contract for other three years.
The only point is if the spurs management thinks the big three stuff is done or not...but if they don't think they're done, any spurs fan may have the legitimate expectation that the management makes all the possible, first of all economical, efforts for the best cast available.
They can and they should...obviously, only for the "right" players....

Mel_13
06-17-2009, 05:55 AM
I cannot agree on this.
First of all I cheer for Spurs and not of the dead Seattle team ...(but I like the "new" Seattle team, alias Oklahoma Thunder).
Second, I don't think that overspending for a limited amont of time, like two/three years years will broke the team finances...after ten years of money coming from our play-offs run (four till the end) without paying the lux tax.
Imho, in this league, when you have a chance to compete for the title, you have to take it...Imho we'll be competitive just till the big three will play at their level ...evidence is we lost last two years just because of bad health conditions of one or two of the big three...with nobody else capable of supporting the team as they did.
Things are not gonna change, the risk of bad health conditions for one or more of the big three is the some or more 'cause age doesn't come back...and we just have been beated at the first round of play offs.
No play off game means a lot less money.
You can't play Manu and Tim like they're both 25...and Tim is under contract for other three years.
The only point is if the spurs management thinks the big three stuff is done or not...but if they don't think they're done, any spurs fan may have the legitimate expectation that the management makes all the possible, first of all economical, efforts for the best cast available.
They can and they should...obviously, only for the "right" players....

Look friend, you are entitled to your opinion as to what financial measures the Spurs "should" take to maximize their chances to contend for a title. I am not going to make any further effort to convince you otherwise.

You are, however, destined to be sorely disappointed. The Spurs are not increasing payroll 15-20M. They will "make all possible efforts" within a responsible budget.

Mr. Body
06-17-2009, 01:12 PM
I've never seen so many permanent links in a forum.

yavozerb
06-19-2009, 04:39 PM
NBAdraft.net on Travis Outlaw possibly being dealt:


The Portland Trailblazers would like to dump Travis Outlaw ($4 million next year) and their pick and clear some additional space to make a run at Hedo Turkoglu.

The Blazers have 12 guys under contract next season and loads of talent, and somehow their cap is at just $50 million. So they are in position to make some moves, and have an owner (Paul Allen) and GM (Kevin Prichard) who are eager to improve.

The league's salary cap is expected to be close or less than the $58 million it was in 2008-09. (Imagine, had Darius Miles stayed gone, they would have an additional 9 million to play with.)

Portland's cap looks great right now, but next year they'll have to resign Brandon Roy and LeMarcus Aldridge, so if they want a free agent it better be this summer.

After his playoff heroics, it's unlikely the Magic will be able to afford to resign Turkoglu. While many teams with cap space are looking forward to the 2010 free agent class, Portland's situation forces them to go after a free agent now.

There's also the possibility that a team such as Olympiacos or Panathinaikos jumps into the mix and makes a huge offer to him to come overseas to finish out his career. Hedo has a game that would extremely well in Europe with his ability to make plays for himself or others.

Bruno
06-19-2009, 05:17 PM
Outlaw contract is fully unguaranteed if he is waived before July 1st. If Blazers are looking for more capspace, they can simply waive him.

robert1886
06-19-2009, 05:23 PM
Outlaw contract is fully unguaranteed if he is waived before July 1st. If Blazers are looking for more capspace, they can simply waive him.
no way they waive him

yavozerb
06-19-2009, 05:37 PM
Outlaw contract is fully unguaranteed if he is waived before July 1st. If Blazers are looking for more capspace, they can simply waive him.

Outlaw would be pretty damn nice..I guess they could drop him for cap reasons, but there is no need to with many teams interested I am sure.

Bruno
06-19-2009, 05:41 PM
Outlaw would be pretty damn nice..I guess they could drop him for cap reasons, but there is no need to with many teams interested I am sure.

Well, if you want both the capspace and something in return for Outlaw, you had to find another team with capspace or a big trade exception that want Outlaw.
I'm not sure Blazers can find this team.

Biggems
06-19-2009, 11:16 PM
So Outlaw and Portland's 1st for Kurt Thomas?

They get rid of the parts they want and in return, they get an expiring contract that they can either trade, or merely waive.

Now that would really leave us thin on the front line, but if we are able to re-sign Gooden, it shouldn't hurt us too much.

ss1986v2
06-19-2009, 11:19 PM
So Outlaw and Portland's 1st for Kurt Thomas?

They get rid of the parts they want and in return, they get an expiring contract that they can either trade, or merely waive.

again, why not just keep outlaw? hes fully unguaranteed while KT isnt.

portnoy1
06-20-2009, 10:23 AM
3 way trade with Clippers and Raptors.

San Antonio sends C/F Oberto $3.6 million and F Bowen $4million to Clippers
San Antonio sends C/F Thomas $4.2 million and G Mason Jr. $3.5million to Raptors

Clippers Send C Kaman $9.5million to Spurs
Clippers send F Al Thorton $1.7 million to Raptors
Clippers send G Ricky Davis $2.3 million to Raptors

Raptors Send C/F Bargnani $5.1million to Spurs

This trade should work. Why 1 - the spurs have are $9million under the cap according to Espn trade machine / Clippers $3 million under / Raptors $12million under.

The spurs get 2 young 7 foot centers who both block shots well. Kaman is a solid rebounder and Bargnani has unlimited range and has the versatility to play positions 3-5.

The clippers need to get rid of some guys to make way for blake griffin. Once they receive Oberto/Bowen they can cut them and save some money; almost $6million.

the raptors at this point are willing to make some bizzare changes. They are soft on the boards. behind bosh they had Moon/Oneal to grab rebounds before they got traded. trading one of their shooters (kapono) for a rebounder (evans) while the other shooter (parker) is a free agent shows that they are trying to get help on the boards. Thomas is a good rebounder and Mason jr. is the shooter to replace Parker. Thorton is the creative young wing player that will replace Marion's $17million contract.



Lineup

PF - Tim Duncan / Bargnani
SF - James Singleton / Finley
C - Chris Kaman / Bargnani
PG - Tony Parker / Hill
SG - Dahntay Jones / Manu

ffadicted
06-20-2009, 10:50 PM
portnoy, stop dreaming lol

KSeal
06-20-2009, 10:56 PM
The last big the Clippers would want to move would be Kaman, they'll look to trade Camby and Randolph (won't happen). No way they trade Al Thorton either.

loveforthegame
06-22-2009, 12:48 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#Word-on-the-Street-June-22nd-3276

Various draft and trade talk.

venitian navigator
06-24-2009, 05:11 AM
Holt has given instructions to R.C. to make the team better.
I think this include the chance of going in lux tax territory for at least two years.
Imho, like I said before, this is the right choice...'cause our window for be contenders again with the current core of the big three is at least two-three years...and then we'll need some different pieces, at least as our main options.
R.J. is the first step.

We now have the following chances to improve :

1) make another deal on draft day or after;
2) our MLE (possible to split on two players)
3) our LLE
4) our draft choices (37, 53, 55)
5) our "young" players in USA or overseas (Hairston, M. Wiliams, Splitter, Javtokas, Gist).
6) signing back, in 30 days, the players we sold (Bowen, Oberto if both or one of them cut, K. Thomas if buyed out)

I wonder if the F.O. already has a plan...

mosdef17
06-24-2009, 07:58 AM
I will respectively disagree with basically all of that. We can do a lot better with what we have to offer other teams.

Instead of trading for the injury ridden Kaman I would like to see a strong move made at Richard Jefferson as the Bucks need to cut their contracts and need to find some cash to re-sign Charlie V and Ramon Sessions. According to ESPN trade machine a trade of Bowen, Bonner and Oberto would work. We could probably throw in a future second rounder or something. If the Bucks were looking to purely cut salaries this would be a good deal for them as Bowen and Oberto have partially guaranteed contracts. They would account for $7.5m in a trade but could be bought out for about $3.9m. Bowen I assume would probably come back to us an sign on for the rest of the season for the veterans minimum ($1.1m-ish).

Now, we still have the Mid-Level Exception (roughly $5.8m) to spend, we could offer that to someone like Chris Anderson, Gortat or Trevor Ariza. Most likely offer it to Anderson if we have RJ. Ariza would be awesome though but would most likely require the entire MLE while Anderson might play for $4m.

After these trades it leaves us with:

C: Kurt Thomas, (Chris Anderson/Gortat)
PF: Tim Duncan, Mahinmi
SF: Richard Jefferson, Bowen
SG: Mason Jr., Ginobili
PG: Parker, Hill

Not only that but I'm sure we could still offer the $1m to Singleton if needed. We would probably need more scoring from the PF/C positions (Gooden?) with the lineup I just proposed but I think we would be well on our way to fixing our problems.

Something I wrote about a month ago there ^^^

WOW, I'm good.

tp2021
06-24-2009, 11:47 AM
http://tinyurl.com/cerkty

Bring Bowen back after they cut him, try to lure Sheed (or Dice, if not then Gooden) with the MLE.

I was close. With KT being traded instead of Bonner, they manage to find a way to save money.

Mel_13
06-24-2009, 12:08 PM
Holt has given instructions to R.C. to make the team better.
I think this include the chance of going in lux tax territory for at least two years.
Imho, like I said before, this is the right choice...'cause our window for be contenders again with the current core of the big three is at least two-three years...and then we'll need some different pieces, at least as our main options.
R.J. is the first step.

We now have the following chances to improve :

1) make another deal on draft day or after;
2) our MLE (possible to split on two players)
3) our LLE
4) our draft choices (37, 53, 55)
5) our "young" players in USA or overseas (Hairston, M. Wiliams, Splitter, Javtokas, Gist).
6) signing back, in 30 days, the players we sold (Bowen, Oberto if both or one of them cut, K. Thomas if buyed out)

I wonder if the F.O. already has a plan...

:toast

You were absolutely right and I was equally wrong. You are a class act for simply moving on with the discussion without pausing to gloat.

I am shocked and thrilled that ownership has apparently authorized the expenditures necessary to construct a roster that can contend over the rest of Duncan's career. There is good reason now to be hopeful for more good news over the next two weeks.

I hope the rest of your predictions prove to be just as accurate.

venitian navigator
06-24-2009, 12:29 PM
:toast

You were absolutely right and I was equally wrong. You are a class act for simply moving on with the discussion without pausing to gloat.

I am shocked and thrilled that ownership has apparently authorized the expenditures necessary to construct a roster that can contend over the rest of Duncan's career. There is good reason now to be hopeful for more good news over the next two weeks.

I hope the rest of your predictions prove to be just as accurate.

Thanks Mel!
I'm glad I was right, at least in relationship of this first step, just 'cause I think that's the best choice for everybody, fans, team and for the owner too...at the end, I Think that ten more play off games can be worth ten/twenty more million dollars...
Now let's share these following market days...

MaNu4Tres
06-24-2009, 12:31 PM
That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.

Only reason I gloated was because of the way you responded to my opinion in a talking down fashion in the Richard Jefferson trade thread. No hard feelings. We are all happy.

Mel_13
06-24-2009, 12:38 PM
Only reason I gloated was because of the way you responded to my opinion in a talking down fashion in the Richard Jefferson trade thread. No hard feelings. We are all happy.

Man, I left you alone in the RJ thread. Now you bring it over here. With regard to our debate, you had nothing to gloat to about. Yesterday's trade proved that my position in that thread was correct and your attempts to counter it failed.

MaNu4Tres
06-24-2009, 12:45 PM
Man, I left you alone in the RJ thread. Now you bring it over here. With regard to our debate, you had nothing to gloat to about. Yesterday's trade proved that my position in that thread was correct and your attempts to counter it failed.

My main point in the debate was that we could add Jefferson with our big three in tact. You claimed it was impossible. Now you pull the "I was right about it putting us in the luxury tax" card. When you were so adamant about how adding Jefferson was so stupid to even be worth discussing and how it was like starting a thread: Spurs need to sign Bron. STFU. I was trying to be nice after all that but you obviously are still butt hurt about you being wrong.

MaNu4Tres
06-24-2009, 12:51 PM
That team costs too much and is not a championship contender. Just give up already. If you want to discuss an RJ deal that could (mind you, I didn't say should) happen, then Manu has to be part of the deal. Otherwise, it is pure fantasy and shouldn't be in the Think Tank forum, but should be in the OMG if we got Kobe and Lebron we'd be so awesome forum.

Because the Spurs have the same chance of trading for RJ without sending Manu in return as they do of getting Kobe or Lebron. Zero, nada, zilch.



The only way the Spurs will consider adding a 14-16M contract to TD, TP, and Manu will be for an all-star level big. You think Toronto will give up Bosh for our extra contracts? I didn't think so, either.

There is just no way the Spurs add a perimeter player that makes more money than TP unless they deal Manu.

You can contemplate a trade for a perimeter player on a contract the size of Caron Butler or Corey Maggette and possibly make it work, but RJ and VC won't work

You can have Tim, Tony and RJ on the Spurs. You cannot have Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ. That is, in the real world

I don't know how to make it any clearer.


Are you being deliberately obtuse?


Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

I rest my case your honor

Mel_13
06-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Don't clutter this thread with your selective quotes. I could do the same. Get over it. The Spurs have your favorite target. They are willing to spend money. It is a day for all Spurs fans to celebrate.

MaNu4Tres
06-24-2009, 12:58 PM
Don't clutter this thread with your selective quotes. I could do the same. Get over it. The Spurs have your favorite target. They are willing to spend money. It is a day for all Spurs fans to celebrate.

Wasn't my favorite target actually. I just thought it made sense just like Bruno did. But what does Bruno know.

I wasn't going to clutter this thread with your quotes that were wrong. But your last post warranted it. Sorry. And yes it is a day for Spurs fans to celebrate.

Mel_13
06-24-2009, 01:28 PM
Wasn't my favorite target actually. I just thought it made sense just like Bruno did. But what does Bruno know.

I wasn't going to clutter this thread with your quotes that were wrong. But your last post warranted it. Sorry. And yes it is a day for Spurs fans to celebrate.

Read back through the RJ thread. I thought we left on good terms when we each made our last posts on May 2nd.

When you came back into the thread after the trade and had some fun at my expense, I left you to your celebration.

Venetian_Navigator and I had a debate in this thread on the likelihood that the Spurs would go way over the tax to remain a contender. He took the position that they would, I opposed. He was right, I was wrong and I admitted such.

In the RJ thread, my opposition was always about the money. In our last exchange, to use the quote you used.



Meanwhile you have utterly failed to answer my repeated requests that you show a 13-15 man roster that includes the Big 3 and RJ and stays under the lux without having 9-11 minimum contracts. You continue to say it is possible, yet you refuse to show the math that would prove it. Laying out such a roster would not require mindreading on your part, only that you look up the numbers and add them up.

Care to try?

And you replied:


I love you too Mel 13, when I get home at around 3 a.m I will be happy to figure out a scenario. Unfortunately due to women and alcohol, I will not be able to accommodate you at this time. But I will figure out a scenario. GO SPURS GO

You never did and neither did the Spurs (and I hope you had a good time that night). Instead, they surprised us all by blowing up every bit of conventional wisdom about their fiscally conservative nature. Bravo to ownership and yay for Spurs fans everywhere.

There was plenty of extraneous commentary on both sides, but that was the crux of our debate.

With the trade, the Spurs are well over the tax and still have a gaping hole at the 4/5 positions. Based on yesterday's events, it is entirely possible that the Spurs will go further into the tax to build a contender. Scenarios like the one proposed be Venetian_Navigator in this thread and by you in the first post of the RJ thread now appear to be realistic. I want such scenarios to come true.

So, I'm happy about the trade. I'm happy that the Spurs have opened the vault. I stayed away from your celebration in the thread you started. But I can't offer you the same words I offered Venetian_Navigator. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I look forward to similar, spirited discussions in the future and I hope that the scenario you laid out comes true. That will be a great outcome for the Spurs and their fans.

TDMVPDPOY
06-26-2009, 12:20 AM
how about glen davis big baby?

Chieflion
06-26-2009, 01:10 AM
how about glen davis big baby?
With Dejuan Blair, I don't think we need another undersized PF. I think we need a ture center. Plus Glen Davis has proved his worth to the Celtics, most likely, they would keep him.

tp2021
06-26-2009, 09:56 AM
RC went on Peter Burns show this morning. He said he didn't expect any more trades, and bigs will come through FA.

loveforthegame
06-26-2009, 12:02 PM
RC went on Peter Burns show this morning. He said he didn't expect any more trades, and bigs will come through FA.

I'm sure they'll keep their options open but at this point I think it's realistic that no more trades will come right now.

MLE, Blair, Bonner
Duncan, Mahinmi, Gist
Jefferson, Finley
Mason, Ginobli, McClinton
Parker, Hill, Williams

That still leaves a roster spot open. Maybe two if they decide to let Williams go.

Bruno
06-26-2009, 12:20 PM
RC went on Peter Burns show this morning. He said he didn't expect any more trades, and bigs will come through FA.

I take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, Spurs adding bigs via FA or trade will depend on Finley's choice.
If Finley picks his option, I expect a trade for a big.

tp2021
06-26-2009, 12:23 PM
I take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, Spurs adding bigs via FA or trade will depend on Finley's choice.
If Finley picks his option, I expect a trade for a big.

If the Spurs trade for a big, do you think they will still try to use their exceptions?

MaNu4Tres
06-26-2009, 12:24 PM
I take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, Spurs adding bigs via FA or trade will depend on Finley's choice.
If Finley picks his option, I expect a trade for a big.

I agree Bruno.

coyotes_geek
06-26-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm not so sure what Finley does plays in to the decision. If Finley comes back the Spurs can just look for an opporunity to trade him to a team under the cap or one who has a trade exception. Worst case scenario would be for the Spurs to miss out on free agents because they're busy trying to swing a deal involving Finley and then come up short on the trade front. If there's a free agent out there who fills the need just go get him and worry about Finley later.

Bruno
06-26-2009, 12:27 PM
If the Spurs trade for a big, do you think they will still try to use their exceptions?

I guess it will depends on who they trade and what kind of big they get.

Blackjack
06-26-2009, 12:30 PM
I'm sure they'll keep their options open but at this point I think it's realistic that no more trades will come right now.

MLE, Blair, Bonner
Duncan, Mahinmi, Gist
Jefferson, Finley
Mason, Ginobli, McClinton
Parker, Hill, Williams

That still leaves a roster spot open. Maybe two if they decide to let Williams go.

I'm not able to watch video on here, but did R.C. seem like McClinton was pretty much a lock?

I ask because, it would seem a a 6' 7" point-forward would be pretty much ideal for guys like Hill and McClinton.

Could Williams be a bigger part of their plan than any of us could have expected?

MaNu4Tres
06-26-2009, 12:51 PM
I'm not so sure what Finley does plays in to the decision. If Finley comes back the Spurs can just look for an opporunity to trade him to a team under the cap or one who has a trade exception. Worst case scenario would be for the Spurs to miss out on free agents because they're busy trying to swing a deal involving Finley and then come up short on the trade front. If there's a free agent out there who fills the need just go get him and worry about Finley later.

Finley wouldn't be traded.

coyotes_geek
06-26-2009, 12:56 PM
Finley wouldn't be traded.

???

Didn't you just agree with Bruno that if Finley picks up his option the Spurs would try and use him to trade for a big? Or did I miss Bruno's point?

Either way, I still say the Spurs should just go use the MLE on a big and worry about Finley later.

Bruno
06-26-2009, 01:14 PM
The problem with dumping Finley to a team under the cap or with a TE big enough isn't that easy. Teams with cap space are often in rebuilding mode and Finley has no value for these teams. Spurs had a hard time dumping Jackie Butler salary 2 years ago. Detroit hasn't been able to fully dump Amir Johnson contract this year.

Take aside scrubs, players that aren't available and players with a too big salary and there should have about an half dozen big man who could be trade targets. Spurs can see if they can get one of these players. It's not like it will take them the whole July month and will prevent them to go after FA.

MaNu4Tres
06-26-2009, 01:24 PM
???

Didn't you just agree with Bruno that if Finley picks up his option the Spurs would try and use him to trade for a big? Or did I miss Bruno's point?

Either way, I still say the Spurs should just go use the MLE on a big and worry about Finley later.

I meant if Finley does pick up his option. That only makes Mason more expendable and Mason has realistic value to be packaged with Bonner to bring in a quality big man to play next to Tim, that's if the Spurs don't land their target for the 4/5 spot via Free Agency.

coyotes_geek
06-26-2009, 01:32 PM
The problem with dumping Finley to a team under the cap or with a TE big enough isn't that easy. Teams with cap space are often in rebuilding mode and Finley has no value for these teams. Spurs had a hard time dumping Jackie Butler salary 2 years ago. Detroit hasn't been able to fully dump Amir Johnson contract this year.

Take aside scrubs, players that aren't available and players with a too big salary and there should have about an half dozen big man who could be trade targets. Spurs can see if they can get one of these players. It's not like it will take them the whole July month and will prevent them to go after FA.

Fair points. Finley being an expiring contract makes moving him a little easier. I haven't checked trade exceptions, but if a GM for a team going nowhere has one that's about to expire they could probably be talked in to taking Finley so long as the Spurs kick in some cash. Easy opportunity to make a few bucks for the owner without giving up anything.


I meant if Finley does pick up his option. That only makes Mason more expendable and Mason has realistic value to be packaged with Bonner to bring in a quality big man to play next to Tim, that's if the Spurs don't land their target for the 4/5 spot via Free Agency.

I gotcha. My mistake.

Darkwaters
06-26-2009, 02:36 PM
The only trade I'd really be pushing would be for Tyson Chandler. They obviously want to sell - it's just a matter of what you can give them. A trade of Mason/Bonner/Mahinmi might work. It offers some youth, a viable rotation player in Mason and a spare big (they love shooters). Plus, they all come off the books soon. Chandler would set us up.

RiverwalkParade
06-29-2009, 12:50 PM
I think the Spurs are set for now. I don't see any big trades coming until the deadline. there is still FA to land a big man, plus that gives us time to assess our talent and see what we truly need. We might find a gem in FA and not make any moves, or we may need major help and package Bonner, Mason and maybe Finley (if he doesn't opt out) for a big man on a team that is trying to free up cap space for the offseason. Jefferson makes this team a major contender in need of minor adjustments.

Marcus Bryant
06-29-2009, 01:45 PM
The problem with dumping Finley to a team under the cap or with a TE big enough isn't that easy. Teams with cap space are often in rebuilding mode and Finley has no value for these teams. Spurs had a hard time dumping Jackie Butler salary 2 years ago. Detroit hasn't been able to fully dump Amir Johnson contract this year.

Take aside scrubs, players that aren't available and players with a too big salary and there should have about an half dozen big man who could be trade targets. Spurs can see if they can get one of these players. It's not like it will take them the whole July month and will prevent them to go after FA.

Move Finley with Bonner for a decent reserve bigman (ie Foster) and sign the starting big in free agency.

Starters
4 Duncan
5 Wallace or McDyess

Bench
4 Blair
4/5 Mahinmi
5 Foster

That rotation would be a significant improvement over last season and much more than I think Spurs fans hoped for at the end of this past season.

I like this approach, as then you really need only one of Blair and Mahinmi to step up and contribute consistently.

Bruno
06-29-2009, 02:25 PM
Move Finley with Bonner for a decent reserve bigman (ie Foster) and sign the starting big in free agency.

Starters
4 Duncan
5 Wallace or McDyess

Bench
4 Blair
4/5 Mahinmi
5 Foster


If Spurs can do that , it will be damn awesome.

Brazil
06-30-2009, 09:01 PM
So guys your thoughts ? Finley came back, trade him for a big ? MLE for a big ? both ?

Marcus Bryant
06-30-2009, 10:05 PM
So guys your thoughts ? Finley came back, trade him for a big ? MLE for a big ? both ?

If the Spurs really threw caution to the wind...

Starters
1 Parker
2 Ginobili
3 Jefferson
4 Duncan
5 Wallace

Bench
1 Hill
2 Mason
2/3 Bowen
3 Nocioni
4 Blair
4/5 Mahinmi
5 Nesterovic

IR
1/2 McClinton
2/3 Hairston
3/4 Gist

Sign Wallace using the MLE. Sign Nesterovic using the LLE. Deal Finley, Bonner, and Williams (and perhaps a pick) to Sacto for Nocioni. Sign Bowen.

I think this is one of the most versatile rosters the Spurs could put together. Nice mix of young and old, athleticism and guile, outside shooting and scoring, and rebounding. Obviously this would be a bit pricey. But it's a buyer's market. If the Spurs are ready to make one final push for a championship in the remainder of Duncan's career, the sooner, the better.

urunobili
06-30-2009, 10:37 PM
If the Spurs really threw caution to the wind...

Starters
1 Parker
2 Ginobili
3 Jefferson
4 Duncan
5 Wallace

Bench
1 Hill
2 Mason
2/3 Bowen
3 Nocioni
4 Blair
4/5 Mahinmi
5 Nesterovic

IR
1/2 McClinton
2/3 Hairston
3/4 Gist

Sign Wallace using the MLE. Sign Nesterovic using the LLE. Deal Finley, Bonner, and Williams (and perhaps a pick) to Sacto for Nocioni. Sign Bowen.

I think this is one of the most versatile rosters the Spurs could put together. Nice mix of young and old, athleticism and guile, outside shooting and scoring, and rebounding. Obviously this would be a bit pricey. But it's a buyer's market. If the Spurs are ready to make one final push for a championship in the remainder of Duncan's career, the sooner, the better.
This Post is full of win :tu

bishopospurs
07-03-2009, 02:26 PM
Bring over splitter, whatever it takes, sign Sheed or McDyess, then trade Bonner and Finley for James Posey (salaries work)

PG- Parker/Hill/McClinton
SG- Mason/Ginobli/McClinton
SF- Jefferson/Posey
PF- Duncan/Blair/Ian
C-Sheed or McDyess/Splitter/ian

scottspurs
07-04-2009, 01:22 AM
Bring over splitter, whatever it takes, sign Sheed or McDyess, then trade Bonner and Finley for James Posey (salaries work)

PG- Parker/Hill/McClinton
SG- Mason/Ginobli/McClinton
SF- Jefferson/Posey
PF- Duncan/Blair/Ian
C-Sheed or McDyess/Splitter/ian

I actually like this idea. Posey is a great role player who plays defense and he can shoot the 3. I doubt Splitter is coming over though. If we did this we would probably need to sign another big with the LLE. Oberto?

mosdef17
07-04-2009, 09:03 PM
The only trade I'd really be pushing would be for Tyson Chandler. They obviously want to sell - it's just a matter of what you can give them. A trade of Mason/Bonner/Mahinmi might work. It offers some youth, a viable rotation player in Mason and a spare big (they love shooters). Plus, they all come off the books soon. Chandler would set us up.


I don't even think we need to go that extreme? If we can't sign Sheed this could be an option. Don't all hate on me if you don't like it, I'm not sure of it being a good idea either. But, if Portland end up getting David Lee as is being discussed right now. Maybe Joel Przybilla would be available?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=na745d

His contract is longer and larger and so maybe Portland would do it for some cap relief. Who knows. Either way, Bonner needs to be put to the bench as a role player or traded. He and Blair won't be able to play together.

TDMVPDPOY
07-08-2009, 10:45 AM
suns not resignin matt barnes according to news ticker at realgm

Mr.Bottomtooth
07-13-2009, 12:15 PM
Pistons traded Afflalo and Sharpe to Denver for a 2nd rounder, according to Yahoo twitter.

mountainballer
07-14-2009, 04:54 AM
Pistons traded Afflalo and Sharpe to Denver for a 2nd rounder, according to Yahoo twitter.

that's another very smart move by Warkentien. Afflalo is a nice replacement for Dahntay Jones, it's cheaper than re signing Jones and in the long run with much more upside.
Afflalo is IMO exactly (or better: will be) the type of player you want to back up a JR Smith.
I usually don't care much for the Nuggets and I really don't like Karl, but I have to admit, that
Warkentien is a great GM, who does the right things for now AND for the future.

the other question is, what are the Pistons plans. this move only makes sense, if another moves follows immediately. they have increased their cap space for 1.8 million, I can't tell exactly where they stand now, but including the 1.8 million they should be around 5 million.
Pistons fans speculate about Glen Davis (they hate him), Gooden (not many fans either).
all possible, but what if the Pistons use the cap space plus Kwame for a Boozer trade? i'm not totally sure about the numbers, but I guess Kwame + Bynum for Boozer would work, considering the available cap space. (Pistons will need to add a teaser, maybe a 1st round pick, but then the Jazz will bite IMO).
a trade for Tyson Chandler could work the same way.
S&T for Lee might be a possibility either, if they send a 1st rounder to the Knicks.

TDMVPDPOY
07-17-2009, 04:16 AM
how about marquis daniels? long 3 released from indiana...

sure he wont come here for the minimum, how about a sign n trade....

finley + bonner + williams + gists?

mosdef17
07-17-2009, 07:38 AM
how about marquis daniels? long 3 released from indiana...

sure he wont come here for the minimum, how about a sign n trade....

finley + bonner + williams + gists?

Joking yeah?

RiverwalkParade
07-21-2009, 01:52 PM
Any chance we can work a Finley+Williams for Turiaf with Golden State?

GS gets immediate cap relief by waving Williams, Finley gives them some vet leadership and outside shooting.

We get a guy that provides energy off the bench and can contribute for an "addition by subtraction" move (meaning, getting rid of Finley frees up minutes for Hairston)

jesterbobman
07-26-2009, 01:55 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, but is there any indication of teams that are losing $ and would be really interested in cutting payroll. Looking over that list might be a good way of finding out where bargains(talent wise) would be available. Eg, teams looking to sell traditionally cut payroll to make a sale more attractive, teams could cut $ to save on tax etc. If you take out the other top teams from the mix(BOS, LAL, CLE, ORL, DAL, etc), who are the guys left that
a) Would fill a positional need/Strengthen the position or Talent base
b) Have non-heinous contracts
c) are Decent/Good Defensively
d) Are not needed by their current team.

At a glance, I'd think potentially Ty Thomas, Tayshaun Prince(though that'd be a big sum), SJax, Maggette & Brandon Wright(Is G State up for Sale/Minutes for A Randolph and they have depth at 2-3-4.), Battier(If Houston is tanking at Midseason), Posey(Though his contract is not great), Martell Webster(may be redundant with Outlaw & Batum), Matt Harpring(Not a great fit, but 1 year deal), CJ Miles...

Most of those guys have been discussed, so the main questions left are what kind of guy/age/contract is being looked at and when the FO is doing it(And whether they're looking at a deal at all, this is just apost on a message board)

Thoughts?

Streakyshooter08
07-27-2009, 02:10 PM
Well. I think that the Wizards could really need help underneath the basket. They only have 3 big men at the moment. They just traded Thomas to OKC, so they could be really looking for a trade. Which player would you think the Spurs could be interested in?

Mike Miller? (good shooter an expiring contract)
Young?
Foye?
Crittenton?

Bruno
07-27-2009, 03:21 PM
Well. I think that the Wizards could really need help underneath the basket. They only have 3 big men at the moment. They just traded Thomas to OKC, so they could be really looking for a trade. Which player would you think the Spurs could be interested in?


Thomas was traded to Minny in June. Today's trade was between Wolves and Thunder.

Wizards have 5 bigs with Jamison, Blatche, Haywood, McGee and Oberto. That's a quite good PF/C rotation.

Bruno
07-27-2009, 03:38 PM
I think Spurs doing or not a trade before the training camp will depend on their confidence in Haislip and to a lesser extent in Mahinmi.

Spurs aren't that well equipped against mobile 4 like Dirk, Odom or Rashard Lewis. Duncan, Blair, Bonner, McDyess and Ratliff will have troubles to match up with them. Playing small with RJ at the 4 isn't a that good solution: RJ is Spurs' best wing defender so you rather see him matching against top wings. Haislip is made to match up against these players and Mahinmi has the physical tools to defend on them. If Spurs aren't sold on their ability to defend well agaisnt these players, trading for a combo forward makes a lot of sense.

mosdef17
07-27-2009, 08:44 PM
I'm still holding onto my wish...

Rashard, Odom, Dirk all have 1 thing in common. Andres Nocioni has the physical attributes and toughness to guard them with some degree of effectiveness.

mountainballer
07-28-2009, 06:37 AM
Spurs aren't that well equipped against mobile 4 like Dirk, Odom or Rashard Lewis. Duncan, Blair, Bonner, McDyess and Ratliff will have troubles to match up with them. Playing small with RJ at the 4 isn't a that good solution: RJ is Spurs' best wing defender so you rather see him matching against top wings. Haislip is made to match up against these players and Mahinmi has the physical tools to defend on them. If Spurs aren't sold on their ability to defend well agaisnt these players, trading for a combo forward makes a lot of sense.

totally agree on the analysis about the Spurs problem to defend combo forwards.
JR will help in some situations (especially against Dirk, who hates to be guarded by athletic and long SFs, see Posey and Barnes), but yes, this likely leaves a hole at the wing. (Kobe, VC, PP are to strong for Manu/Mason).
Haislip I don't see as a solution, neither Ian, even if they did develop in the defensive department. it's just a matter of rotation minutes. usually you don't play a player, who gets 10-15MPG (that's IMO the PT area where either Ian and Haislip will find themself in the rotation) more than twice the minutes, just because of a certain match up. however, I do agree a trade for a combo, who can defend makes sense.
Nocioni would help in this department, even considering his defense is pretty overrated. Spurs should keep an eye on the Wolves. they are still tinkering their roster, the latest move was another sign that they lack a big plan. Ryan Gomes is much of all the good what Nocioni would also provide and is a much smarter team defender. (and cheaper btw.)
ok, he is very likely not on the market and word is, the Wolves do like him. just for the sake of discussion: what would the Wolves think about Mason plus Ian (plus a pick?) for Gomes?

portnoy1
07-28-2009, 11:55 AM
James Singleton formerly of the Mavs is still a free agent and will probably cost under a $1million. He is 6-8 and can play either forward position. He is also a very good rebounder.

loveforthegame
07-28-2009, 12:25 PM
I think Gomes would be a better fit for the Spurs than Nocioni. Would love to get him.

RiverwalkParade
07-28-2009, 12:59 PM
Gomes has been high on my wish list for years. I think we passed him up in the draft for Ian a few years back. Always wondered "what if"

tp2021
11-13-2009, 02:47 AM
Mahinmi and Mase for Tyrus Thomas
Finley and Mase (and Mahinmi if they want him) for Kapono
Mahinmi, Finley, Mason, and Bonner for Vladimir Radmanovic and Raja Bell

Just spitballin

SpurNation
12-02-2009, 09:23 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5305732

Roughly two and a half months away from trade deadline but something to ponder if the Nets keep up their losing ways.

Mahinmi, Haislip and Hairston probably get to at least play in games which allows them a better opportunity to stay or land with another team in the league.

Spurs in (Lopez) gets a traditional 7 footer at C; Duncan and Dyess get their minutes more closely regulated for the playoffs; Splitter (maybe) comes next season; Duncan can extend his career and Spurs have a core of young talented post players to help continue the quest after Duncan retires.

This would also work if the Nets were to want more of a guarantee in receiving a player other than just building from FA and lottery picks if the Spurs were to throw Splitter in the mix to land Lopez.

benefactor
12-02-2009, 09:34 AM
Brook Lopez will be a legit big in a couple of seasons...perhaps as early as next season. Why would the Nets want our scraps for him?

SpurNation
12-02-2009, 09:59 AM
Brook Lopez will be a legit big in a couple of seasons...perhaps as early as next season. Why would the Nets want our scraps for him?

Yeah...It would make since for the Nets to keep Lopez and build upon a young core as well as explore FA and the draft. That along with the possible move to Brooklyn would make it a tempting place for big name FA's to want to play.

This all depending on which road ownership decides to travel.

Granted they (Nets) picked up Lopez's option just on the 29th. But one has to wonder based on past actions if that means anything at all about their perceived direction.

Interesting article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2009/12/02/2009-12-02_jason_kidd_can_point_nets_to_infamy.html

Anyway. I'm basically tinkering right now with a thought that came to my mind without any solid basis of this remotely becoming a possibility.

But stranger things have happened in this league...aka Memphis and Gasol.

Mel_13
12-02-2009, 10:13 AM
Anyway. I'm basically tinkering right now with a thought that came to my mind without any solid basis of this remotely becoming a possibility.

But stranger things have happened in this league...aka Memphis and Gasol.

Sorry, but this has become the most hackneyed excuse for any and every improbable scenario.

Trading Lopez for scraps would be far stranger than the Gasol deal. The Gasol trade relieved Memphis of a huge multi-year contract. New Jersey has Lopez for two more seasons after this one on his rookie contract and then has him as an RFA in the summer of 2012. There is no remotely plausible scenario in which NJ makes the trade you propose.

SpurNation
12-02-2009, 10:53 AM
Sorry, but this has become the most hackneyed excuse for any and every improbable scenario.

Trading Lopez for scraps would be far stranger than the Gasol deal. The Gasol trade relieved Memphis of a huge multi-year contract. New Jersey has Lopez for two more seasons after this one on his rookie contract and then has him as an RFA in the summer of 2012. There is no remotely plausible scenario in which NJ makes the trade you propose.

Thanks. And thanks to benefactor as well.

As I said before...tinkering. But it seams that NJ, if they can't get something sustainable going this year, might have to tinker as well.

Vanderweigh might be able to do something as far as turning their current talent into at least a respectable team. And I read that Patrick Ewing has an interest as well.

The trade scenario I proposed wasn't meant to help that team now rather than give the Nets options for better possibilities next year if all else fails in that organization this year.

But you're correct. I might as well box this idea somewhere on a shelf and dust it off later if anything tangible presents itself in the future regarding Lopez.

Mel_13
12-02-2009, 11:02 AM
Thanks. And thanks to benefactor as well.

As I said before...tinkering. But it seams that NJ, if they can't get something sustainable going this year, might have to tinker as well.

Vanderweigh might be able to do something as far as turning their current talent into at least a respectable team. And I read that Patrick Ewing has an interest as well.

The trade scenario I proposed wasn't meant to help that team now rather than give the Nets options for better possibilities next year if all else fails in that organization this year.

But you're correct. I might as well box this idea somewhere on a shelf and dust it off later if anything tangible presents itself in the future regarding Lopez.

Now they may trade Lopez, but not for scraps.

A plausible scenarion may look something like this:

NJ has a ton of cap space for next summer. They're also very likely to have a top-3 lottery pick. So they go after Lebron, Wade, or Bosh and one of those guys wants to play for the Russian billionaire. Well, NJ can offer a five year deal for about 30M less than the six year deal they can get from their original teams. The original team wants to get something for their franchise player. So then you get a sign and trade with Lopez and the lottery pick going out and the big name free agent coming in.

RiverwalkParade
12-02-2009, 02:54 PM
Anyone on board with Mahinmi/Mason for Krstic from OKC? The rebirth of Rasho?

kbrury
12-02-2009, 03:11 PM
Anyone on board with Mahinmi/Mason for Krstic from OKC? The rebirth of Rasho?
Nope, plus no reason for OKC to do it. They have plenty of guards and Ibaka.

5in10
12-09-2009, 06:10 PM
What about Hibbert who is seeing less and less time as the pacers go on, it would be nice to add a 7'1 center with that kind of potential. I know hes not playing right now because hes defending hasnt been that well but maybe duncan and pop can fix that, i mean look at how well Blair has improved already.

HarlemHeat37
12-09-2009, 06:18 PM
Indiana isn't going to move him..

5in10
12-10-2009, 03:07 AM
Roger Mason for Tyrus Thomas?? gives them a shooter to stretch the floor and gives us a shot blocker.

Chieflion
12-10-2009, 05:19 AM
This sounds more and more like a circle jerk where guys just want to give useless pieces for something good.

SpurNation
12-10-2009, 10:53 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5318614

Parker/McDyess for Bosh. Bosh has been reportedly unhappy in Toronto. Toronto is playing under .500 ball. Maybe they do the trade maybe not.

The differentials in ppg and rebounds are a near wash with 4.9 assists fewer for the Spurs. But IMO...what Bosh brings is what the team lacks the most as far as need and that's another legitiment, athletic big that would significantly help Duncan and this team's chances at advancing in the playoffs.

I believe, with a more ball movemnet type of offense, the team should be able to survive the loss of Parker with Hill, Ginobili and Mason all pulling duty at the position.

Chieflion
12-10-2009, 10:59 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5318614

Parker/McDyess for Bosh. Bosh has been reportedly unhappy in Toronto. Toronto is playing under .500 ball. Maybe they do the trade maybe not.

The differentials in ppg and rebounds are a near wash with 4.9 assists fewer for the Spurs. But IMO...what Bosh brings is what the team lacks the most as far as need and that's another legitiment, athletic big that would significantly help Duncan and this team's chances at advancing in the playoffs.

I believe, with a more ball movemnet type of offense, the team should be able to survive the loss of Parker with Hill, Ginobili and Mason all pulling duty at the position.
What makes you think the Raptors do this trade? I loled.

SpurNation
12-10-2009, 11:18 AM
What makes you think the Raptors do this trade? I loled.

I really couldn't tell you. I'm not sure how the mindset of Toronto or Spur's FO may or may not think if this offer were to be made. I was laughing on the inside myself when looking into it.

http://raptors.realgm.com/articles/69/20091203/losing_frequently_losing_badly_losing_patience/

Who knows what their mind set will be if later by trade deadline Toronto isn't winning. They might consider getting something for Bosh instead of watching him leave next year and get nothing in return.

Chieflion
12-10-2009, 11:24 AM
I really couldn't tell you. I'm not sure how the mindset of Toronto or Spur's FO may or may not think if this offer were to be made. I was laughing on the inside myself when looking into it.

http://raptors.realgm.com/articles/69/20091203/losing_frequently_losing_badly_losing_patience/

Who knows what their mind set will be if later by trade deadline Toronto isn't winning. They might consider getting something for Bosh instead of watching him leave next year and get nothing in return.
Either way, Raptor fans on RealGM said it as much. Bosh or Bargnani can be had for a hard nosed center, not a PG.

mountainballer
12-10-2009, 12:34 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5318614

Parker/McDyess for Bosh. Bosh has been reportedly unhappy in Toronto. Toronto is playing under .500 ball. Maybe they do the trade maybe not.

The differentials in ppg and rebounds are a near wash with 4.9 assists fewer for the Spurs. But IMO...what Bosh brings is what the team lacks the most as far as need and that's another legitiment, athletic big that would significantly help Duncan and this team's chances at advancing in the playoffs.

I believe, with a more ball movemnet type of offense, the team should be able to survive the loss of Parker with Hill, Ginobili and Mason all pulling duty at the position.

please stop it.
those proposals are getting more and more ridiculous, especially when you try to argue conclusively.

SpurNation
12-10-2009, 08:00 PM
please stop it.
those proposals are getting more and more ridiculous, especially when you try to argue conclusively.

Sorry if this is non-sense to you. But, this is a "General Trades Discussion" forum. And that's exactly what this was..."General". This trade scenario makes more sense than many of the ones I've seen posted. Especially involving a player (Bosh) that might get away for nothing from a team that might want to get something for him if they continue to struggle this year. And in general...a trade for one big for another (or one PG for another) rarely happens.

That plus... Bosh has stated publicly that he would like to go to a contending team if he were to ever leave Toronto. San Antonio definately fits that bill. Also, the Raptors run a style of offense that would benefit both Parker and McDyess in the interim as well as provide the Raptors with bargaining power to trade next year. Something...next year...they wouldn't have in Bosh.

It might not be imaginable at this point. But neither (for many here) was Jefferson to San Antonio nor Gasol to the Lakers when that happened.

As far as a "conclusive" arguement. Tell me one that you have seen come to fruition from this site. It generally becomes a swarm of "Yeah that works" after the fact it is done as if those stating the obvious after it was done had a clue it was going to happen before it happened.

You tell me...would there be another trade for a legitiment big that would make more sense than this?

I'm open for suggestions since this is the place to make them.

CGD
12-11-2009, 02:57 AM
Not sure that's what MB meant by "arguing conclusively"; I think it refers more to some of the underlying assumptions which have to be accepted under your scenario.

I do understand where you are coming from on Bosh. There is a legitimate concern in Toronto that they may lose the guy and have nothing to show in return. So it makes sense that Toronto would explore trading him to at least get some value back. I heard Chris Rock (yes, the comedian) make a similar argument about Lebron...

Chieflion
12-11-2009, 10:21 AM
Not sure that's what MB meant by "arguing conclusively"; I think it refers more to some of the underlying assumptions which have to be accepted under your scenario.

I do understand where you are coming from on Bosh. There is a legitimate concern in Toronto that they may lose the guy and have nothing to show in return. So it makes sense that Toronto would explore trading him to at least get some value back. I heard Chris Rock (yes, the comedian) make a similar argument about Lebron...
And it was really funny, being a comedian and all. Besides that, why would the Raptors trade Bosh now when they can offer him the most money come 2010 free agency and can do a sign and trade for assets. Why take a lowball offer before the trade deadline?

portnoy1
12-11-2009, 10:56 AM
I'm cool with Bargnani. But I wouldnt be willing to give up Parker if we dont get a solid/decent PG back somehow.

Chieflion
12-11-2009, 11:00 AM
I'm cool with Bargnani. But I wouldnt be willing to give up Parker if we dont get a solid/decent PG back somehow.
Bargnani is Poison Pill Provision, making him very hard to be traded for.