Harvey: Ginobili as savior? One who will, can't

[Kori Ellis]

Buck Harvey: Ginobili as savior? One who will, can't
Web Posted: 03/24/2005 12:00 AM CST

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA032405.1C.COL.BKNharvey.16a460286.html

San Antonio Express-News

INDIANAPOLIS — Manu Ginobili dribbled the ball off his leg early in the third quarter, and that was it. He couldn't take any more.

He came to the bench for a timeout, slamming a chair, then went back to the court determined to slam everything else. He would yell at refs, scrape for a rebound, come up with a steal, then drive into contact.

But two things were working against him this night.

His body.

And his teammates.

He didn't point fingers afterward. Instead, Ginobili sounded more like the voice of this team than he ever has. He sat in an empty locker room and said: "I see it in our faces ... that's why I'm going to stay awake until 5 this morning trying to figure out what's happening."

Gregg Popovich doesn't need that long. He ripped into his players as a group immediately after the game, pulling out the "soft" tag again. But it was clear he was talking about certain players.

Rasho Nesterovic. Nazr Mohammed. And Tony Parker.

Asked about Parker specifically, Popovich responded with a deliberate tone: "Tony is totally healthy."

As in contrast to Ginobili.

The Tim Duncan-less Spurs can't win without Parker and Ginobili playing well, and neither has been. But maybe it simply comes down to Ginobili and his sore groin, sore quads, sore right shoulder and sore left calf.

If he's playing full-bore, wouldn't the Spurs follow his lead?

This Ginobili wouldn't have won the gold medal for Argentina in Athens. He couldn't have led his country in the condition he is in now, and he admits as much. "I don't feel like I can go by anyone right now," he said.

Usually, Ginobili can go by anyone.

This Ginobili also didn't win gold here in this same building, when the 2002 World Championships were in Indianapolis. Then his body also gave out. He twisted his ankle nearly as badly as Duncan did his Sunday, coming down on Dirk Nowitzki in the Argentina-Germany semifinal game.

But whereas Duncan flew home, unable to put pressure on his ankle, Ginobili came back 20 hours later to try to win the championship for Argentina. His limp through the loss was painful to watch.

It was also a costly decision. The ankle, injured in August, bothered Ginobili through half of his rookie season with the Spurs. Not coincidentally, when he recovered is when the Spurs began their run to the championship.

So the same Ginobili who tried to play when he shouldn't have in the World Championships is the same Ginobili who tried to rage himself through his pain Wednesday night. It's a signal of who he is and why the Spurs need him healthy.

It's also a signal of his future. He's always thrown his body around as if it is disposable, and it's effective but damaging.

Standing Wednesday as the contrast was Reggie Miller. He's spent his career damaging others, running defenders through picks, then rising up with shooting skills that Ginobili doesn't have.

Miller has played a cleaner, safer game, the reason he could score a game-high 21 points Wednesday night at age 39. He's retiring, but there's really no reason he should.

He crossed the 25,000-point threshold against the Spurs. And when asked about coaching against Miller for the last time, Popovich said with some respect and humor: "Thank God."

Ginobili's career will never be as long, and it won't be the same. He needs contact, and he needs to be fearless. And when his body doesn't play along? He's not the same, and neither are the Spurs.

That doesn't stop him from burning inside, or from saying what the other Spurs need to hear. Asked about not having Duncan, Ginobili said defiantly: "I really don't care about Tim Duncan. We should play the same with or without him. And that is what worries me. There is no reason for this."

The one with the will to lead the Spurs without Duncan is the one who is hurt, and it's a bad combination. If the Spurs can't beat Atlanta on Friday night at home, when will they beat anyone?

Ginobili is ready, no matter the details. "I can't wait to play the next game."

And his teammates?

[timvp]

Gregg Popovich doesn't need that long. He ripped into his players as a group immediately after the game, pulling out the "soft" tag again. But it was clear he was talking about certain players.

Rasho Nesterovic. Nazr Mohammed. And Tony Parker.

Great. The Spurs give up two first round draft picks and Malik Rose for a freaking Samaki Walker clone. How do you get on Pop's sh!t list after less than a dozen games?

:pctoss

[Kori Ellis]

Pop calling out Tony will make him respond. Calling out Rasho and Nazr? I'm not sure if they will respond or cry. We'll see Friday night.

[ALVAREZ6]

Nice Article Kori!

Manu seems pissed, but what I really like about it is this:
Ginobili is ready, no matter the details. "I can't wait to play the next game."


Take it out on Atlanta!!!!

I want to forget all the bad games the Spurs had, and I want to see them start playing next game.

[timvp]

The only player on this team right now who I think is dedicated to winning is Manu. Everyone else looks like they'd rather be doing something else.

[ALVAREZ6]

The only player on this team right now who I think is dedicated to winning is Manu. Everyone else looks like they'd rather be doing something else.
Damn right, Manu is a winner, along with Duncan and Parker.

Manu likes to win, and he dedicates his time in preparation for being a winner... not many people have won titles in the Olympics, NBA, and Italian League.

[TMTTRIO]

I saw them interview Manu and he looked pissed and ready to do whatever it takes to win the next game whether he's health wise ready for it.

[Das Texan]

If Manu can find a smittance of health, he will lead this team for weeks.


And we will be that much better in the long run.

[Nikos]

I know Manu is not 100%, but is he really that banged up? There was one play where he went by Austin Croshere and missed the layup badly. I sat their thinking how in the world could Manu blow that play after taking Austin Croshere off the dribble of all players? Slow feet, no true shot blocking ability, and in general not a good defender. It didn't look like Manu.

Is he really that banged up? If so, why is Pop playing him?

If he is getting closer to 100%, then I hope he gets his act together soon. The Spurs can't afford to drop to a 4 or 5 seed and completely collapse.

[Kori Ellis]

Pop said yesterday that Manu was healthy, but just had a bad game (NY). Obviously Pop thought Manu tried hard tonight, but it's hard to imagine that he's completely healthy.

[whottt]

Somehow I knew even if Barry did show up it'd get pissed on....I mean it has all season...by the fans and Pop so why should it stop now...I just wish people would stop acting like there is something he can do to prevent it...just say it's hate.

I mean he lead the team in scoring tonight...his best games all season have come in losing streaks...he gave up money(that fucking Jack wasn't willing to give up) and starting to come here for a ring...and every acts like this guy is a heartless punk who doesn't care...That's crap. This guy wants to win and if you can't see it then you guys just aren't looking good enough. He's not fucking Devin Brown and I'd take him over Devin Brown because he doesn't shove his head up his ass and forget to stand still when he should.

[Nikos]

I think all it is gonna take from Barry is to simply play solid ball in games that the Spurs win. As long as he hits his open shots, passes well, and plays competent defense in most of the upcoming Spurs victories, the 'hate' you claim everyone has should go away.

But this is a perfect time to roast Brent even further. For not stepping up without Tim. Lately he has not been playing great ball, but if he starts doing the things he was brought in to do, then he will gain more respect.

[TMTTRIO]

I don't know what's going on with Manu because PJ on the pregame show said that if Tim didn't get injured Manu probably wouldn't of played in the New York game but he sure hasn't looked like himself.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah I heard that PJ said that, which is weird because Pop said on The Pop Show that Manu was healthy.

[Das Texan]

Pop is also generally a liar.

[exstatic]

Manu didn't look healthy against NY. I still don't think he's quite gotten the full bounce back in his step.

[MannyIsGod]

I love Manu for his effort. Whottt, I think it's safe to say Barry also brings effort. Devin Brown brings effort.

However, after that, the effort brought on this team drops off considerably. I'm telling you, these guys think they can pull a damn switch and I can't help but think that's a mistake.

[Kori Ellis]

Before tonight, I wouldn't have said it wasn't about effort. Sometimes they just suck. But the effort tonight (especially by the front court and Tony) was horrible. We'll see if they respond now.

[MannyIsGod]

No way, I think back to every one of the losses we had against weak competition,and it all comes down to focus and effort. Those games have already come back to haunt us, and HCA is definetly out of the picture the way this team is playing.

I've lost a ton of confidence in this team, and I'm ashamed they were ever compared to the 99 squad. This team as a whole lacks a lot of heart. They don't strike me nearly as professional as Spurs teams in the past.

They don't have the vocal, strong leader they've always had in the locker room in players like Ellie, Johnson, Rose, Porter, and others.

This team fits the soft moniker better than any Spurs team ever has.

[Kori Ellis]

HCA is definetly out of the picture the way this team is playing.

So they are going to drop to the fifth seed?

[MannyIsGod]

Meaning throughout the playoffs. I think they are pretty much locked into the top 4, and for Dallas to catch them it would take a complete meltdown, so Top 3 seems likely enough.

However, I've been waiting all year for this team to show me some heart. I haven't given up on them by any means, but they need to show something, anything, soon.

I'm hoping tonight is rock bottom. But I don't understand why Monday wasn't rock bottom.

I don't get the feeling I do with this team that I have with Spurs teams through out the past 6 years. I get the feeling I get from the 90s, and those arne't pleasent feelings.

How long will this team keep us waiting?

[Kori Ellis]

I think people are over-reacting and don't remember that every season (including the Championship seasons) there were stretches when the team played soft, dumb, and just plain bad ... and most of those stretches Tim Duncan was on the court. Why I think people are freaking (and maybe rightfully so) is because this stretch is coming so late in the season.

This Spurs team is good. Up until this three-game losing streak they were on track to break the franchise win record. They have one of the best point-differentials in history. They have the best home record they've ever had. And a variety of other things.

Losing sucks and Spurs fans aren't used to it. But a three-game losing streak without Tim Duncan doesn't mean this whole team is crap. They need to adjust to playing without him. They haven't done that yet.

If 10 days from now they are still losing, then Spurs fans can cry, stomp, yell, scream and jump off the bandwagon. But right now, just let them come home and regroup and see what they are going to bring to the table.

[MannyIsGod]

Fair enough, and I'll give them more time.

But just to be clear, it's not the losing, it's the way in which they're losing. And I've been harping about this for a good portion of the season, because this team has had a tendancy to try and coast.

[PM5K]

I don't want to sound like I don't believe in the Spurs, but if they had wound up with HCA they would have rolled over everyone, they are 31-3 at home, the best in the league but they are 19-15 on the road, so playing any good team on the road worries me, but if everyone is healthy I still think we win, just not as easily.

You don't want to play the Spurs at home for a seven game series.....

[Kori Ellis]

Again, they were on track to the best record in franchise history prior to this. If you were bitching about the way they lost those games, I would have hated to see how you acted every other year.

Remember when the Spurs lost to Bulls in the 2003 Championship season? Or the loss to Minnesota on the first game of the Rodeo Road trip that year? Spurs lose some games bad and ugly every single year ... so does every other team in the league.

That's NBA basketball.

[MannyIsGod]

There was something very different about those teams, they peaked late in the season, and those losses caused a turn around.

Maybe tonight will be the one that caused the turn around, but so far we've been waiting.

[Kori Ellis]

Tim Duncan was playing when those teams gotten beaten badly. He's not playing right now.

Do you honestly think the Spurs would be on a three-game losing streak with a healthy Duncan and Devin? Let them adjust to playing without them. And when the boys get back and healthy, this team will be even tougher because they've had to endure without Duncan.

[Tek_XX]

Hey look on the bright side, we won't be peaking to soon that's for sure.

[toosmallshoes]

they're hurt. the heart of the team (manu) and the backbone (Duncan). Devin is hurt too. maybe this is the perfect time for everyone to get injured. gives them a chance to rest before the playoffs. spotlights the weaknesses of the team. And with Manu and Devin hurt, this is Barry's opportunity to gain some confidence or wilt trying. And Tony needs to grow the hell up. And note to the big guys: "You're big. Play that way." If this adversity doesn't build some positive character on the Spurs by the end of the regular season, then our so called "dynastic" team will turn into a mere disaster.

[Ginofan]

I think people are over-reacting and don't remember that every season (including the Championship seasons) there were stretches when the team played soft, dumb, and just plain bad ... and most of those stretches Tim Duncan was on the court. Why I think people are freaking (and maybe rightfully so) is because this stretch is coming so late in the season.

This Spurs team is good. Up until this three-game losing streak they were on track to break the franchise win record. They have one of the best point-differentials in history. They have the best home record they've ever had. And a variety of other things.

Losing sucks and Spurs fans aren't used to it. But a three-game losing streak without Tim Duncan doesn't mean this whole team is crap. They need to adjust to playing without him. They haven't done that yet.

If 10 days from now they are still losing, then Spurs fans can cry, stomp, yell, scream and jump off the bandwagon. But right now, just let them come home and regroup and see what they are going to bring to the table.

I think you're right Kori. I know I feel more nervous losing like this so close to the end of the season. Granted we aren't healthy, but do we have enough time to be healthy? If Manu wants to win, he's going to do everything in his power to push himself to win...that can cause more damage...and even more reinjury. I wish some of the HEALTHY people had his mentality and his toughness, so he wouldn't have to push his body so hard.

[johnny00]

Damn right, Manu is a winner, along with Duncan and Parker.


Parker has no heart, just because he has a championship ring doesn't mean he's a winner. Speedy Claxton outplayed Tony in the Finals against the Nets. Wasn't Tony the poor Spur who should've been on the All-Star team and let everyone know how disappointed he was that he didn't make it?? Well when it's time for him to step up to the plate and prove to everyone how good he is, he's doing exactly what he did in the 2003 Finals...curling up in the fetal position in the corner of the room and wilting when the pressure is on.

[ducks]

I think spurs still can win out
I think spurs can beat houston without duncan
sonics may take the spurs for granted without duncan and spurs could beat them

[GrandeDavid]

Kori, we`ll see on SUNDAY, you mean. The Spurs will find a way to win against Atlanta at home somehow. But the real test will come against the Rockets when both will be crucial in defending Yao. The scary thing is Yao seems to have really bulked up and in that Heat-Rockets game the other night Yao looked (gulp) so much stronger than O`Neal. No, he`s not an aggressive player, but we`ll need Rasho and Nazr to be aggressive in order to win.

[BigVee]

Let's be realistic here. Without Duncan, an obviously sub-par Manu, Nazr still not 100% (not sure what that means), no Devin Brown, the Spurs will not beat the Rockets. Pop built this team around one superstar. With him out of the line up, the others are lost. I saw many times last night when players were the most open after one pass, but they are programmed to pass ad nauseum before shooting. The offense needs to be adjusted without TD. They need to take the best shot they have regardless of where they are in the shot clock. Manu cannot carry this team in his current physical shape. Parker? It is easy for teams to shut off the lane...which is his game. Bowen? No offense there. Barry? Not the type to dominate a game. Rasho? Two years to develop him and he is no better....if anything he has regressed. Horry? Too old to be the focal point for an entire game. Beno? Can't create his own shot. Against a tough minded, defense oriented team, in the current situation, they will not generate enough offense to win. Indiana pushed them all over the court last night, NY did as well and Houston will do the same. I agree the effort needs improvement, but I think the offensive scheme needs improvement as well. The Spurs may not win another game until TD returns.

[Mark in Austin]

Damn right, Manu is a winner, along with Duncan and Parker.



I'm a big Parker fan, but a winner on the same level a Manu or Duncan? When has Tony ever carried a team ALL THE WAY to a title?

Manu did it in the Olympics. Tim in 2003. Tony? The French national team lost a close game; and in the Playoffs last year, one Laker adjustment destroyed him.

Winners find a way to get it done, no matter what the opposition is doing. I hope Tony can become that kind of player, but he isn't there yet.

[ALVAREZ6]

OK fine guys, take Parker out of the list, I wasn't going to include him the first time I posted, but I was trying to be nice...there's a lot of TP fans

[boutons]

"one Laker adjustment destroyed him."

All of the Spurs players and coaches fucked up big vs Lakers, not just Tony. If you say the Lakers paint defense shutdown Tony, you have have it also shutdown Tim.

And I see exactly the same thing this year, eg, the loss @Heat. Shut down the paint, and Spurs lose.

These Spurs are soft, so that ANY opponent that hustles on defense, puts up any kind of resistance, will find the Spurs crumbling and struggling to score.

-19 after 3 quarters, the fucking Raps jumped on the Spurs and they collapsed, offense and defense.

Grizz hustle, and they win @MEM.

The fucking lottery Clips come into SBC, hustle, and come within a hair of winning.

The fucking lottery Jazz hustle, and the Spurs lose.