Going nowhere FAST!

[ElNono]

Obama Takes Aim at Offshore Tax Havens
By JEFF ZELENY

Updated
President Obama will present a set of proposals on Monday aimed at changing international tax policy, calling for the elimination of benefits for companies and wealthy individuals that harbor their cash in offshore accounts.

The president and Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner will announce their plans during a late-morning appearance at the White House. The proposed overhaul in the tax code, which will be fully unveiled in the administration’s budget later this week, could help raise $210 billion in revenues over the next 10 years.

One of the key proposed changes would restrict companies from deferring the payment of taxes on profits earned overseas. Administration officials said the plan also would keep firms from taking deductions against their taxes by inflating the amount of foreign taxes they paid.

Mr. Obama raised the idea frequently during his presidential campaign. In a speech to Congress in February, as he outlined his priorities for the year, he pledged to make the tax code more equitable by “finally ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas.”

The White House said that Mr. Obama would seek to crack down on overseas tax havens in an attempt to “close the international tax gap.” The president is aiming to take away the competitive advantage for companies that invest and create jobs overseas, working to replace their tax advantages with incentives to produce jobs in the U.S.
Several large businesses have opposed the proposal, telling Congressional leaders in March that the provisions would make U.S. companies less competitive. About 200 companies and trade associations, including Microsoft Corp., General Electric Co. and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, signed a letter stating that the proposed changes to the tax code would put them at a disadvantage with their rivals.

While Democrats have a strong majority in the House and Senate, the administration’s proposals are still expected to face considerable opposition.

In his presidential campaign last year, Mr. Obama often criticized provisions in the tax code that allowed American firms with overseas operations to defer paying taxes on corporate profits, providing that they placed the money back into their foreign subsidiaries.

In his speech on Monday, the president will call for an end to that practice, as well as seeking to close the loopholes that allow companies and individuals to legally avoid paying billions in taxes through hidden accounts.

The White House said that Mr. Obama also will call for a crackdown on the abuse of tax havens by wealthy individuals. Officials said the president will propose making it more difficult for financial institutions and wealthy Americans to evade their taxes.

The speech is scheduled for 11:05 a.m. in the Grand Foyer of the White House.

LINK (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/04/obama-takes-aim-at-offshore-tax-havens/?hp)

[boutons_deux]

Magik Negro is tilting at windmills.

Scamming the IRS out of 100s of $Bs is how wealthy and the corps become more wealthy and tighten their grip on the levers they use (eg, Congress) to run America.

[balli]

I love how on my Google top stories I read Bloomberg press and various republicans characterizing this as a "tax increase". Yeah because shutting down the practice of inflating foreign taxes and illegally dumping money into Cayman Island accounts is the same as jacking up tax rates.

I can understand the argument when it comes to job creation, but otherwise, fucking bullshit way to characterize this.

[Destro]

this is something everyone who isn't super rich should be for

[angrydude]

*shrug*

morality and taxes don't go together very well.

If they weren't spending so much they wouldn't be so desperate for all these rich people's money.

but Obama's gonna do what he's gonna do.

[boutons_deux]

"If they weren't spending so much they wouldn't be so desperate for all these rich people's money."

So it's OK for the capitalist oligarchy to evade taxes as long as the Feds balance the budget or run a surplus?

[Spurminator]

I love how on my Google top stories I read Bloomberg press and various republicans characterizing this as a "tax increase". Yeah because shutting down the practice of inflating foreign taxes and illegally dumping money into Cayman Island accounts is the same as jacking up tax rates.

I can understand the argument when it comes to job creation, but otherwise, fucking bullshit way to characterize this.

That's because it's the only way to get Joe Plumber and Susie Homemaker-Foxwatcher to give a shit.

[EVAY]

this is something everyone who isn't super rich should be for

+1

[Wild Cobra]

All we need. More class warfare.

There's a reason money gets sheltered. 5% of the population already pays 80% of the tax burden. Want them to simply change citizenship, or something else?

There is no solution to bring in revenue f4rom these people. All that will happen is moving them farther away.

We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world. Bring the tax rates down, and eliminate the loopholes. Better yet, stop taxing production, and watch this nation boom.

Those of you participating in the class warfare. Shame on you. You are part of the problem, not the solution.

[Cry Havoc]

*shrug*

morality and taxes don't go together very well.

Really? So it's okay to not pay taxes because there's no place for morality here?

[clambake]

All we need. More class warfare.

There's a reason money gets sheltered. 5% of the population already pays 80% of the tax burden. Want them to simply change citizenship, or something else?

There is no solution to bring in revenue f4rom these people. All that will happen is moving them farther away.

We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world. Bring the tax rates down, and eliminate the loopholes. Better yet, stop taxing production, and watch this nation boom.

Those of you participating in the class warfare. Shame on you. You are part of the problem, not the solution.

another astoundingly stupid position. :toast

[ElNono]

We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world. Bring the tax rates down, and eliminate the loopholes. Better yet, stop taxing production, and watch this nation boom.

Ahhh, trickle down economics... Epic Fail!

And BTW, did you actually read what these companies actually paid in taxes using those shelters? Somehow I'm fairly sure 2.3% is among the lowest rates you will pay in the world.
Obviously, those rates are reserved for Jack the Billionaire, not Joe the Plumber.

[angrydude]

Really? So it's okay to not pay taxes because there's no place for morality here?

Its dumb to bring morality arguments into a tax debate because there is nothing moral about pointing a gun at someone and demanding a little bit more or a little bit less money than from someone else. Its a policy decision nothing more. Too bad it happens all the time. Someone breaking a stupid law doesn't get me that worked up. They're just going to find another way anyhow.

Obama better hope the money he takes isn't being used more efficiently than he is going to use it. That'd be like killing the golden goose. Probably isn't though. And its not going to help the economy because all that money is just going to be swallowed up into that monstrous debt.

But yea, rule of law and all that. The rich have it coming to them if they break the law. You or I couldn't get away with it. But that's more my own jealousy than anything else.

[FaithInOne]

Legally evading taxes is one of America's greatest past times.



It's only a matter of time before my rothIRA is seen as a loophole. :lmao

[FaithInOne]

P.S. I'm sure this increased tax revenue will go to pay off the deficit.

[coyotes_geek]

Yeah! Tax the hell out of those evil corporations!

Hey, why did the cost of everything I buy from corporations get more expensive?

[hope4dopes]

Yeah! Tax the hell out of those evil corporations!

Hey, why did the cost of everything I buy from corporations get more expensive?

lol brilliant.sad but true.

[Cry Havoc]

All we need. More class warfare.

There's a reason money gets sheltered. 5% of the population already pays 80% of the tax burden. Want them to simply change citizenship, or something else?

There is no solution to bring in revenue f4rom these people. All that will happen is moving them farther away.

We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world. Bring the tax rates down, and eliminate the loopholes. Better yet, stop taxing production, and watch this nation boom.

Those of you participating in the class warfare. Shame on you. You are part of the problem, not the solution.

PepsiCo paid $0 in taxes in 2000.

[Wild Cobra]

PepsiCo paid $0 in taxes in 2000.
I don't give a shit. There's a reason for that. Fix the root cause instead of causing more problems.

[Winehole23]

WC is ok with Pepsico not paying its fair share. Welfare for billionaires, yes, but not for me and thee.

[Wild Cobra]

WC is ok with Pepsico not paying its fair share. Welfare for billionaires, yes, but not for me and thee.
They pay taxes. They all do that the propagandists tell the ignoramus'.

Annual Financial (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=PEP&annual)

2008 Net Income: $5,142 million

2008 Taxes: $1,879 million

[Winehole23]

WC believes the annual statements.

[Wild Cobra]

this is something everyone who isn't super rich should be for
That's right, be an asshole. It doesn't affect you, family, or friends, so you are willing to fuck them.

You really have a great morality.

[Wild Cobra]

With you guy's attitude, you are part of the problem:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Martin_Niemoeller.jpg/800px-Martin_Niemoeller.jpg

[Winehole23]

WC wants to us to stand up for the communists, the Jews, the trade unionists and the Catholics. :lol

[Wild Cobra]

Think about how the part starting 2:30 in can be applied to other things like rich people and corporations:

44R5BapEdYY

[Winehole23]

That's movies you dolt.

[Wild Cobra]

WC wants to us to stand up for the communists, the Jews, the trade unionists and the Catholics. :lol
Come on, you're smarter than that. I doubt I give you too much credit. We have a similar situation with people not standing up for others against this government.

When the government runs out of money from other sources, they will come for us! If we stand up for those currently being attacked, why should they stand up for us?

Our federal government has way too much control, and liberals want to grow it more... What the hell is wrong with you supposed freedom lovers?

Class warfare, tax and spend... Fuck them!

I have no good feelings of anyone who practices class warfare.

[Wild Cobra]

That's movies you dolt.
It doesn't make the idea that I referred to invalid.

What's up with you today. Did Chump crack you password?


---- added ----

There's also some good things in the series "The West Wing." Love the series. I don't agree with how everything is portrayed, but it's TV, and very well done. I have all seven seasons on DVD.

[PixelPusher]

With you guy's attitude, you are part of the problem:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Martin_Niemoeller.jpg/800px-Martin_Niemoeller.jpg


Think about how the part starting 2:30 in can be applied to other things like rich people and corporations:

44R5BapEdYY

:lol If I ever posted either of these, Ig and hopes4dopes would go apeshit.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol If I ever posted either of these, Ig and hopes4dopes would go apeshit.
Why? There are real valid points in them.

[PixelPusher]

:lol If I ever posted either of these, Ig and hopes4dopes would go apeshit.

Ah, what the hell...it's late, I'm getting goofy tired...I'll throw some chum into the sea...


First they tortured in ticking time bomb cases but I didn't mind because it was a clear and imminent danger.

Second they tortured "slow-fuse" high value detainees and I didn't mind, because you never know what might happen.

Third they tortured Iraqi and Afghan prisoners who weren't high value, but who might have had useful information, and I didn't mind, because they were acting in good faith.

Fourth they tortured prisoners to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam, and I didn't mind, because surely there must have been such a connection.

Finally, they came to torture me, and nobody cared, because if I was being tortured, I obviously deserved to be tortured, and, as Peggy Noonan says, some things are just mysterious and it's best to just keep on walking.

[Winehole23]

Our federal government has way too much control, and liberals want to grow it more... What the hell is wrong with you supposed freedom lovers?Soi-disant (http://dictionary.die.net/soi-disant) conservatives grew it too.


Class warfare, tax and spend... Fuck them!

I have no good feelings of anyone who practices class warfare.Like Bush you mean? Isn't redistribution to the top of the scale class war too?

Who's been winning the class war, BTW?

[PixelPusher]

Why? There are real valid points in them.



blah, blah, blah...MoveOn.org...liberal douche...




...angels dancing on the head of a pin

It would go something like that.

[Wild Cobra]

Soi-disant (http://dictionary.die.net/soi-disant) conservatives grew it too.

Like Bush you mean? Isn't redistribution to the top of the scale class war too?

Who's been winning the class war, BTW?
I don't agree with what you are saying here. First of all, I agree president bush is a so-called conservative. He is not one.

People vote for people who say they will give them what they want. This is generally a bad thing, and most people are guilty of voting in a self centered manner instead of what is best for the welfare of all. People get taken this way.

I fail to follow how president Bush did redistribution at the top. I even doubt I will agree with your explaination because I think the wealthy already pay enough. I know the years I made six figures, I paid way fucking too much.

I am sick and tired of those who do not better themselves demanding more from those who do. That is the limit of what some may consider class warfare on my part. I believe all should share the burden, equal by percentage. This way the poor do not demand an increase on the rich, because it affects them is an equal manner, percentage wise.

I am disgusted that people consider themselves patriots when they want to see others taxes increase and theirs decrease, when it is already unfair to those who they want to increase. I consider them traitors to the Heart of America.

[Winehole23]

I fail to follow how president Bush did redistribution at the top. I take it you're unfamiliar with the impact of the Bush tax cuts and the de facto nationalization of finance. Do you read the papers, WC?


I am disgusted that people consider themselves patriots when they want to see others taxes increase and theirs decrease, when it is already unfair to those who they want to increase. I consider them traitors to the Heart of America.You think the rich pay too much and the middle and lower classes too little. How is that different?

You're a traitor to the Heart of America, WC.

[Wild Cobra]

Soi-disant (http://dictionary.die.net/soi-disant) conservatives grew it too.

At least most of the growth with them was justified by the war. Agree or disagree with the necessity of war, we were at war! Social spending this administration is doing is robbing our children of their future. I saw one estimate that the national debt will double in 5 years with the current plans. This so-called stimulus spending is an excuse to implement more social programs that will likely never go away. We have too many already.

Just remember people. I warned of this already in the past. When it happens a few years out.... Remember.... You [liberals] helped cause it!

[Winehole23]

You're a goddam class warrior, WC. You just sympathize with the winners, even though you're a has been.

[Winehole23]

At least most of the growth with them was justified by the war. We're still at war, dummy.

[PixelPusher]

Remember.... You [liberals] helped cause it!

Yeah, you're such a liberal douche, Winehole!

Have any more cut-n-pastes from your DailyKos diary?

Pwnt!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!



:lol Good night all.

[Wild Cobra]

I take it you're unfamiliar with the impact of the Bush tax cuts and the de facto nationalization of finance. Do you read the papers, WC?
That's not true. They may have had certain cuts, but when you look at the percentage of revenue the government gets by income class, the wealthy ended up paying even more.

You really believe the papers without checking for yourself?

You think the rich pay too much and the middle and lower classes too little. How is that different?
The difference is that those who do not share in the pain of paying taxes cannot appreciate what raising taxes does. I want everyone to have a tax burden, to temper who they vote for and what policies politicians want to implement.

You're a traitor to the Heart of America, WC.
If you believe that, then I feel for you. I know my views are often not liked, but I will never believe in a free ride by force. Apparently, the poor are privileged above others as not having to pay part of their income.

As it stands, about 97% of the taxes are paid by 50% of the people. The other 50% of the people have no stake at caring about the tax rates for the rest of us. In theory, when 50%+1% of the voters pay no taxes, we are doomed. They will vote for politicians and policies that rob from tax payers and give to them. It's been happening with class warfare already. Do you want to be part of that problem, or part of the solution?

How will history treat your views 20-30 years out?

[Wild Cobra]

We're still at war, dummy.
Sure we are. Still, what is the latest? I forget, another $93 billion for war costs? What are we at for social engineering disguised as bailout? Well over a trillion this budget with reoccurring annually costs!

Doesn't anyone else see this disaster coming?

[Winehole23]

How will history treat your views 20-30 years out?What views?

[Winehole23]

Doesn't anyone else see this disaster coming?You think you're the only one?

[Wild Cobra]

You're a goddam class warrior, WC. You just sympathize with the winners, even though you're a has been.
Wow.. I though you and I could be civil without direct insults. What happened to you? You just keep the direct insults up, don't you? Am I talking to Winhole, or Chump?

[PixelPusher]

If Obama is the Anti-Christ for going back 3 percentage points to the Clinton era tax rates, what the hell does that make Reagan at 50% and Eisenhower at 90%? The Dark Lord Sauron and Emperor Xenu?

[Winehole23]

Just remember people. I warned of this already in the past. When it happens a few years out.... Remember.... You [liberals] helped cause it!Edgar Cayce you're not. You think you're clairvoyant?

Whenever you stop playing with yourself WC, the conversation can begin.

[Winehole23]

Wow.. I though you and I could be civil without direct insults. What happened to you? You just keep the direct insults up, don't you? Am I talking to Winhole, or Chump?Anyone who disagrees with you is a traitor and wants to wreck the country, and you're twitting me for my lack of civility?

[Winehole23]

Everything you put down to the libs can be turned around on you.

[Wild Cobra]

Anyone who disagrees with you is a traitor and wants to wreck the country, and you're twitting me for my lack of civility?
LOL...

Fair enough I guess. I really pissed off my younger sister once. Some comment about how stupid someone must be to like a particular person. I don't remember the specifics, it was a few years ago.

Consider this. We rebelled for high taxation. Our ancestors came here to be free from oppression. The Heart of America meant being self sufficient and having the freedom to keep what you earned. I think our founding fathers would be ashamed of what this nation has become. The government stealing money from hard working people and giving it to those who choose not to better themselves or work for it. Think they would be proud of that?

Sorry, but that is my belief. I think as a whole, most people haven't a clue what is is to be an American. I both despise and pity those with the entitlement mentality. The only ones I think should be entitled are those who truly cannot provide for themselves. We have too many people who can be productive and aren't. Then these same people want to raise the taxes of those who are in a class I would like to strive for... FUCK THEM!

[Winehole23]

Consider this. We rebelled for high taxation. Taxation without representation, my man. You fail high school history.

[Wild Cobra]

If Obama is the Anti-Christ for going back 3 percentage points to the Clinton era tax rates, what the hell does that make Reagan at 50% and Eisenhower at 90%? The Dark Lord Sauron and Emperor Xenu?
Huh?

You lost me.

Under president Reagan, the top marginal rate dropped to 28%. I think it was 90% under Eisenhower, but 70% comes to mind, or did Kennedy drop it to 70%? I forget and have no plans to look it up right away.

Wait... I remembered where one particular chart is at. From the article The Laffer Curve: Past, Present, and Future (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1765.cfm):

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/loader.cfm?url=/commonspot/utilities/handle-link.cfm&thelink=CP___PAGEID=64176,images/35082274.gif,32

OK, President Kennedy dropped it to 70%. President Reagan dropped the top marginal rate from 50% to 28%. As for president Obama raising the rates, hell yes. Historical trends shows that the government receives 18% +/- very little of the GNP (or was it GDP?). When you increase taxes, you decrease GNP, therefore decreasing revenue!

You know. I really don't want to go back to the 31% marginal rate for myself. Would you?

[Winehole23]

3% hike in marginal tax rates over Reagan.

It's tyranny!

[Wild Cobra]

3% hike in marginal tax rates over Reagan.

It's tyranny!
No, the top marginal with Reagan's tax cuts were 28%. President Obama will take them to 39.6%!

[Winehole23]

What was the rate under Eisenhower again?

[Wild Cobra]

What was the rate under Eisenhower again?
It was 91%. He never increased or decreased it. It was 92% when he took office.

Income taxes started at 7% marginal for the rich, in 1913...

[Winehole23]

Eisenhower was a Marxist then?

[Winehole23]

More than twice the Marxist than Obama by my calculation. He believed in spreading the wealth around. As you say, he never decreased the rate of taxation.

[Wild Cobra]

More than twice the Marxist than Obama by my calculation. He believed in spreading the wealth around. As you say, he never decreased the rate of taxation.
Jumping to conclusions without all the facts, huh?

I don't know the train of thought then, except that with that marginal rate of 91%, it was also for income above $400,000 before adjusting for inflation. That's somewhere between $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 inflation adjusted if I read a graph right from The Missing $1,000,000 Tax Bracket (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/missing-1000000-tax-bracket.html). From a table in the article Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php), the 2003 top marginal is 35% at $311,950. Doesn't president Obama want to take that down to $200,000, and back to the 39.6% top marginal before the Bush tax cuts?

I don't know the history of that era except that the income tax was sold to the public for the constitutional amendment as only affecting the rich. Now we tax half the voters, enough voters to keep asking for more.

[Winehole23]

Jumping to conclusions without all the facts, huh?That's your speciality.

[Winehole23]

I was teasing you, WC. The assertion was tongue-in-cheek.

You: all cheek.

[Wild Cobra]

That's your speciality.
No, you are jumping to that conclusion.

[Winehole23]

I don't know the history of that era That's not so unusual.

[Wild Cobra]

I was teasing you, WC. The assertion was tongue-in-cheek.

You: all cheek.
I figured, but I wasn't sure.

Really, why should we have such a complicated tax system and such high rates? Eliminate loop holes and drop the rates for a minimum. I would prefer the Fair Tax, but I don't see that happening. You know what I would really like to see, that might be acceptable to enough people wanting to maintain the progressive income tax system...

Change the name of the Social Security Insurance and Medicare Insurance simply to "Social Tax," or some other politically correct name.

Currently, employers match 100% for a 15.3% total. (6.2% Social Security, 1.45% Medicare)

Mandate that all employers give a raise to payroll tax employees by the 7.65%. Take the caps off SS as well.

Make the employee pay the full amount so they see what their work is really paying in social taxes. This would now be 14.21%

Leave the income tax rates alone. Any need to raise or lower taxes come from the new Social Tax. This way, all wage earners have skin in the game.

[Winehole23]

Mandate that all employers give a raise to payroll tax employees by the 7.65%. Socialism!



Leave the income tax rates alone. Any need to raise or lower taxes come from the new Social Tax. This way, all wage earners have skin in the game.Everybody already has skin in the game. You'd take all the tax hikes out of wage earners. Who's the class warrior now?

[Wild Cobra]

Everybody already has skin in the game. You'd take all the tax hikes out of wage earners. Who's the class warrior now?
No, I simply want to tax a part of the government revenue that everyone already pays, and make it variable rather than fixed. Make the income tax rates fixed, that just over half the people end up contributing to.

Everyone has skin in the game, but not when it comes to raising or lowering taxes. That can only be achieved by raising or lowering something everyone pays.

Do you really not understand my simple points? Are they going over your head, or are you being a shit?

[Winehole23]

You're not familiar with the difference between wages and rent are you? Not everyone gets their income from from wages.

[Winehole23]

But yeah, you're way over my head WC. Compared to me, you're a fucking cosmonaut. Enjoy the ride.

http://www.sportshollywood.com/images/dern2.jpg

[ElNono]

The hilarity is to assume, as WC does, that megacorps actually pay their taxes at the government rate.
The reason the government is trying to close the loopholes in the first place is because they have hard data that says megacorps flat out don't pay what they owe.
I don't have that option as a your average citizen. I don't get to choose wether I want to pay the government rate or a discounted 2.3% rate.
This is exactly why trickle-down economics was a complete failure. In theory, as the corps grow bigger, they invest more, and everyone benefits. In reality, they keep cutting jobs, send them overseas, avoid paying taxes, and accumulate both money and power, so they can keep feeding the greed machine.
And when their gambles don't pan out? We bail them out!

I'm all for leveling the playing field at least just a bit. I just doubt this is going anywhere. I think these corps are already to powerful to do something about it.

[clambake]

can someone please explain why an appliance repairman is so obsessed with the financial success of the mega-wealthy?