The Rose trade killed the Spurs' chances

[Jimcs50]

Yeah yeah, Rose was no big deal to this team, he sucked....I have heard it all. But the numbers, the records and the teams' heart begs to differ.

Look at their record since the trade (11-8). Before the trade, the Spurs were 39-10, one win away from having an .800 record for the first time in their history. They were winning by an average point differential of almost 11 pts a game, every scribe and expert in the country was saying they were the team to beat for the championship. Las Vagas had their odds at 1-1 to win it all, an unheard of set of odds that early in a season. The Spurs had been beaten by 10 or more points only one time all year(Seattle) and only by 7 or more only 1 other time. Since the trade, they have been beaten by 7 or more 4 times and their point differential have gone below 10 pts for the first time.

My point, on the day of the trade was , why in the hell would you break up the team with the best chemistry, a team that was the class of the league, a team that everyone involved with the NBA knew was the odds on favorite to win the championship?

Yeah the Spurs have had injuries since then, but they were not playing near as well even when they were healthy. The Spurs in years past they have had injuries and still played hard, still played like they cared and wanted to win. This team is not the same team that was kicking ass before the trade. If you poll the players, I think that they will admit that they were really taken aback by this stupid, money driven trade that really, for all practical purposes let the air out of this team and killed their spirit.

I put this all on Pop and Holt. I hope they realize now that you do not mess with a great situation and great team chemistry right in the middle of a perfect season.

Can the Spurs turn it back on? Who knows, but if they don't then we can all rue the day that management totally screwed every Spurs fan right up the wazoo, and all in the name of saving a few dollars, dollars that we have all contributed directly and indirectly into their deep pockets over the years.

I am seriously pissed.

[ducks]

I think spurs have one or 2 losses the rest of the season

[ducks]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12512

[ducks]

can we move onhttp://www.umkc.edu/is/support/pcpurchases/question%20mark.gif

[Jimcs50]

ducks, I am not talking about numbers of Malik, I am talking about chemistry and the fact that the trade really hurt the players' psyche...it is all too obvious. They are showing Pop how foolish he was to cave in to Holt to save money.

[Jimcs50]

Fuck no we can not move on.

We could go from a lock to win it all to a 1st round loser....I will never let it go.

[ducks]

I think the fact that rose was traded and duncan got hurt the spurs


now if duncan was healthy I think spurs would have been fine


however this spurs team has to prove they can win a game without duncan and rose
when they do win they will be fine


tp lost his guy that went to bat for him against pop when kidd was here
I think that is tp's problem right now and he needs to get over it

[ducks]

Fuck no we can not move on.

We could go from a lock to win it all to a 1st round loser....I will never let it go.


the only team that could beat the spurs in the first round would be rockets but I am still confident they could beat them


suns I am not worried about due to all the stupid stuff suns did last game

[Jimcs50]

That is my point. WTF mess with the players' minds right in the middle of the season???Why ruin the best team chemistry in the NBA???

[OM_fever]

How can everybody still saying that trade was stupid and summing up last games with taht argument? Jimcs50 don't you think that the major reason why Spurs have lost those games were more linked to Manu & Tim injuries (partially Parker too) & because Parker is quite out of gas?

To me, you only use this situation to put again on the table that deal. And because of the lack of production of Malik this year, you only talk about mental failure when refering to that trade, but now we 've a decent back up as 4th & 5th (meaning in size & rebounding at least)

[ducks]

if spurs do not make a midseason trade fans bitch and when they do fans bitch


if spurs go win it all will you move on?

[Ginofan]

This is just another excuse people are putting on the shelf for safe keeping if we don't win the championship. GET OVER MALIK. Seriously, it's old.

[Jimcs50]

How can everybody still saying that trade was stupid and summing up last games with taht argument? Jimcs50 don't you think that the major reason why Spurs have lost those games were more linked to Manu & Tim injuries (partially Parker too) & because Parker is quite out of gas?

To me, you only use this situation to put again on the table that deal. And because of the lack of production of Malik this year, you only talk about mental failure when refering to that trade, but now we 've a decent back up as 4th & 5th (meaning in size & rebounding at least)

As I said, the Spurs have had injuries in the past and still played hard and won games. DRob missed a ton of games in 03 and the Spurs with Malik and Willis more than made up for it and the Spurs won. The Spurs almost beat LA last year in double OT w/o TD because they played with heart and never gave up. This year, even at full strength, they have played like crap and played soft.

They were just starting to play better when TD got hurt, but now, they are playing worse than Charlotte.

[ducks]

the spurs went on 3 game lossing streaks with duncan no injuries
do not act like they never did


quote This year, even at full strength, they have played like crap and played soft.

so they played liek crap with rose and without rose intersting

[Jimcs50]

if spurs do not make a midseason trade fans bitch and when they do fans bitch


if spurs go win it all will you move on?

ducks, we would not have bitched. We would have won 63+ games and been the favs to win it all. How can anyone besides Sequ have complained about not making a trade in midseason when we were head and shoulders above everyone else????

Now my 5-1 on Spurs bet I made in preseason is lost for sure. :depressed

[boutons]

Kori,

Please start another forum:

"Malik Rose Doesn't Live Here Any More and Other Spilled MilkTales"

... so Jim, Manny, timvp, and above all Whott can commiserate, bitch and moan at each about the Malik/Nazr trade, share the kleenex, and assuage their traumatized psyches.

:)

[Jimcs50]

the spurs went on 3 game lossing streaks with duncan no injuries
do not act like they never did


quote This year, even at full strength, they have played like crap and played soft.

so they played liek crap with rose and without rose intersting

Not this year.

They have never lost 3 straight.

In 03, they did not lose 3 straight.

Last year, they lost 4 straight but then won 13 straight.

[Ginofan]

you know for once...I can actually understand and agree with Ducks is saying. WTG man.

[ducks]

so basically you think spurs are done
fine
I will enjoy this title for you :cooldevil

I really think spurs might win out or have 2 losses the rest of the way :smokin

when pop plays the soft card watch out :smokin

[Jimcs50]

Kori,

Please start another forum:

"Malik Rose Doesn't Live Here Any More and Other Spilled MilkTales"

... so Jim, Manny, timvp, and above all Whott can commiserate, bitch and moan at each about the Malik/Nazr trade, share the kleenex, and assuage their traumatized psyches.

:)


And you too, after Spurs are one and done in the playoffs. :)

[Jimcs50]

so basically you think spurs are done
fine
I will enjoy this title for you :cooldevil

I really think spurs might win out or have 2 losses the rest of the way :smokin

when pop plays the soft card watch out :smokin

No, I am not giving up yet.

There is a chance that the players can still find their balls before the end of the season and start winning games.

[kskonn]

Losing D Rob for a while in 03 is nothing like losing duncan this year. Duncan is the center of the Team just like he was in 03. that is a bad comparison. The Injuries to key players are the reason for the spurs losses, Malik never was and would not have been the Savior of this team. he was a good hard working player and gave a lot to his team, but to say he is the reason for the losses and not look at the fact that our three top players have been injured at one point over the last three weeks is ridiculous. that is why whe have had these losses.

[boutons]

About the Spurs psyche and softness now, I was already on to that before Christmas, but nobody wanted to hear about it. I'm not playing "I told you so". I REALLY, REALLY wish I had been wrong.

I pointed out the Spurs weren't a good road team, esp against top teams. Road games are each challenges to a team's toughness, resilience, creativity, to overcome and find a way to win. A good home record and weak road record is what the Cavs have. It shouldn't be what the Spurs have.

And if you can't win, at least play a good game and get beat by a better game, rather than play bad and give the game away to the other team playing less bad (eg, loss @SAC), as the Spurs have done too many times.

I pointed out the Spurs mind-boggling lack of consisentcy from quarter to quarter, from game to game. That's another sign of softness, of absent leaderhip, either an individual leader or a dynamic, de-centralized shared leadership.

ie, I felt that, inspite of the fantastic overall record, there was something worrying about how the Spurs were losing (badly) along with too many ugly W's. Too many tests were being failed.

And ALL of what I was worried about were BEFORE Malik left.

It's totally biased to blame the recent losses exclusively on Malik's departure and whatever touchy-feely guess it has had, supposedly fatally and permanently, on the Spurs chemistry, conveniently ignoring the repeated injuries to Tim, Manu, Tony, and Devin.

====

and last point, to repeat what I said a couple days ago. The Spurs are really a team. They play winning ball together, and they suck together. And when they play great or suck, they all suck on offense and of defense. And that's the case, whether Malik played or got another DNP CD.

[SpurYank]

Factors why we lost three strait: 1) Duncan's injury, on the road, hurt the team's confidence once the Pistons game was over. And on the road it's difficult to regain it because Tim, ever the cheer leader and advisor when not in the game, was nowhere in sight. 2) We faced two teams wanting deperately to "show up" a teammate's former team, not to mention how badly they need victories to get in the playoffs. 3) The main cogs of our team, TP and MG (and TD, too) are not near full strength. 4) We continue turning the ball over in the 3rd and 4th quarters, could be fatigue, lack of concentration, (?). 5) This one will haunt us all year long, as it has for the last couple of years, we can't hit the ft's.

Pop and his staff will now have to earn their pay to overcome these deficiencies, and find out how to regain the confidence they lack today.

I have to believe our Spurs can do it.

Malik? Oh yeah, he used to play for us. Doesn't anymore. Can't pull for him anymore when he plays against us. Rest of the time, Go Malik, Go Knicks (ugh).

[OM_fever]

and furthermore, not only Tim is injuried, but Manu was as well (not so far away) & even Parker had a small injury. And you 've to remember that it's harder at the end of regular season to ask everybody to step up their play when playoff is soon & when you had been injuried.

Not only schemes can't be changed so easily but they need to rest mentaly as well to step up during the playoff. Wait until that day & you would be able to make your critic. But how could you still stick to this idea that 's because of malik trade that spurs are stepping down?! They have a great season without him being a major part of our plan, just in case you'd forgotten last two years.

Hope everybody will stop screaming after team victory in final!

Go spurs

[SpurYank]

One way to prove my point about former Spurs. Jackson was a good player as a Spur, "good" coming off the bench, even though he threw the ball away a lot. Did you notice how "very good" he was last night? Play the Spurs, the odds-on favorite, and your former team to boot, and you play as if you are 6 inches taller and can hit any shot. When he went into the stands at Detroit, I thought that was vintage Jackson, something he would've done sooner or later as a Spur. And because we support all our players, we would have stood behind him, no matter the circumstances.

[Jimcs50]

Factors why we lost three strait: 1) Duncan's injury, on the road, hurt the team's confidence once the Pistons game was over. And on the road it's difficult to regain it because Tim, ever the cheer leader and advisor when not in the game, was nowhere in sight. 2) We faced two teams wanting deperately to "show up" a teammate's former team, not to mention how badly they need victories to get in the playoffs. 3) The main cogs of our team, TP and MG (and TD, too) are not near full strength. 4) We continue turning the ball over in the 3rd and 4th quarters, could be fatigue, lack of concentration, (?). 5) This one will haunt us all year long, as it has for the last couple of years, we can't hit the ft's.

Pop and his staff will now have to earn their pay to overcome these deficiencies, and find out how to regain the confidence they lack today.

I have to believe our Spurs can do it.

Malik? Oh yeah, he used to play for us. Doesn't anymore. Can't pull for him anymore when he plays against us. Rest of the time, Go Malik, Go Knicks (ugh).

Indy was w/o their 3 top players last night.

Give me another excuse.

[ducks]

they have had lots of time to practice without all their guys

[OM_fever]

Indy when they don't have their top players got another level of subs (look at their payroll) how many players do the spurs have at 4M$ a year?

And above all, don't compare a team which has developed a game all year long without their stars at a team which just played few games without their cornerstone?

I agree only on their lack of enthousiasm, but to me it's more linked to the willing (unconscious) to avoid being injuried. That Pacers can't afford it considering their present seed...

[Jimcs50]

Dallas won again and is now going to pass us and win the division.

Fuckyou pop!!!

TD would not have sprained his ankle had Rose been here because the rotations would have been different and he would not have landed on Rasho's foot in the first place....it all changed...it all led to this....I blame the trade of all the bad shit. Karma is a bitch.

[Jimcs50]

Indy when they don't have their top players got another level of subs (look at their payroll) how many players do the spurs have at 4M$ a year?

And above all, don't compare a team which has developed a game all year long without their stars at a team which just played few games without their cornerstone?

I agree only on their lack of enthousiasm, but to me it's more linked to the willing (unconscious) to avoid being injuried. That Pacers can't afford it considering their present seed...


If they are affraid of getting injured, then they do not belong in a Spurs uniform.

DRob played despite having a floating piece of bone near his spinal cord when he could have become paralyzed or injured permanently had that piece lodged against his nerve in a bad fall....that is the worst excuse that I have ever heard.

[Ishta]

Dallas won again and is now going to pass us and win the division.

Fuckyou pop!!!

TD would not have sprained his ankle had Rose been here because the roatations would have been different and he would not have landed on Rasho's foot in the first place....it all changed...it all led to this....I blame the trade of all the bad shit. Karma is a bitch.
I hope Pop is happy now....But probably not.

[Jimcs50]

I hope Pop is happy now....But probably not.

I hope he is losing sleep every night now and I hope he learned a valuble lesson.

[OM_fever]

Sorry Jimcs50 but to me it would be the stupidest things to do to play 100% when you don't recover totally when playoff is so closed and SA is among the favorite team! Would you prefer Tony or Manu being injuried?! Not me.

And please when you 're trying to make a scenario like: if Rose were there, Tim would not have been injuried, don't tell after that my comment was stupid! (sorry but with a lot of if, we would have the best team ever seen (if I bring O'Neal along with Tim, we would have win! super!) That trade is done, that's it, and it has nothing to do with Tim injury or present team chemistry...

[whottt]

You know...I'm not totally sure Pop is the one that forced this trade...the fact that he said it was for financial reasons means the decision probably came from higher up...kinda like the reason we almost didn't sign Parker also might have come from higher up.

There's no doubt that Pop thought Malik wasn't playing well enough to justify his contract...but Pop works hard to develop a lockerroom with chemistry...And Pop has been pleading with Malik to earn his contract for a few years...not necessarily trying to trade him. I am not so sure Pop wanted to pull this trade in the middle of the season.



I think the trade edict was in place and the Spurs did it when they did it because Mohammed was probably as good a player as they could get that actually filled a need and better than anyone they could get in the offseason.

[Jimcs50]

Sorry Jimcs50 but to me it would be the stupidest things to do to play 100% when you don't recover totally when playoff is so closed and SA is among the favorite team! Would you prefer Tony or Manu being injuried?! Not me.

And please when you 're trying to make a scenario like: if Rose were there, Tim would not have been injuried, don't tell after that my comment was stupid! (sorry but with a lot of if, we would have the best team ever seen (if I bring O'Neal along with Tim, we would have win! super!) That trade is done, that's it, and it has nothing to do with Tim injury or present team chemistry...

I know it is ludicrous to mention if Rose were here, the chips would not have fallen where they had....but it is true, that TD would probably not been at that exact point in time where he landed on Rasho's foot....and therefore, there is a great deal of truth to what I said, if you think about it......:)

[ducks]

TD would not have sprained his ankle had Rose been here because the rotations would have been different :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[whottt]

Ducks...he might not have had to come back as soon if Malik had been here to fill in and we had actually won a freaking game with him out...

But we couldn't win without Duncan this time and we were in a battle for HCA...

Duncan himself may not have pressed to come back as much if Malik had been here...contrary to what you haters think, Duncan probably trusts Malik to get the job done more than he does Nazr.. or Rasho for that matter. He's actually seen Malik score 20 points in a game...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The reason we're 11-8 since the trade is because we've had some combination of Tim, Manu, and Tony out with injuries.

The 10th guy on the bench being traded doesn't have anything to do with that.

[whottt]

Yeah cuz...Pop never starts Malik or gives him big minutes when Duncan is injured...

[BigVee]

Minor point. I thought we were 8-6 since the trade. When was it? Right before Mem loss?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sorry, but Malik would not have made that much of a difference with our starting backcourt out (unless you count bricks and turnovers)

[whottt]

Is anyone else going to get a kick out of watching AHF defend the TO's and fouls of a player for a change? I know it's going to be entertaining to me...

[ducks]

how many t.o's
did the spurs have last night whott

[Hook Dem]

Jim........I respect you very much but this Malik thing is getting old. I did not dislike Malik and was even a fan of his. This slump of the Spurs has nothing to do with Malik but everything to do with injuries. It's black and white! Get over it. If you need a reason to tell everyone "I told you so", then you are not the man I thought you were. Your bet is not lost yet! Why don't you channel your energy toward helping them and get behind this team. Remember the Memorial Day Miracle Shot? Let's think positive. You can not even remotely think that the players or coaching staff are enjoying the present situation. I choose to think the Spurs will prevail. Everyone loves a winner but only the tough hang in there when things are rough! Let me know when Malik and the Knicks win a title.

[whottt]

Last night doesn't matter...let's not dwell on the past ducks...

The fact is that Aggie is an efficiency freak who gravitates towards high basketball IQ players...and due to his stance on this trade and his past disdain of Malik...he is now in bed with Mohammed for the duration...a player that's got all of Malik's flaws, without the hustle and determination, and he's got a lower basketball IQ to boot...I just think it's going to be funny.

[GoSpurs21]

who the fuck really cares?????
Malik is gone and you can't say what would have or wouldn't have happened....get over it already....Jesus Fucking Christ

[BigVee]

In keeping with the theme....Amen

[Ishta]

All the Spurs need to do is get their heads outta their butts.. wake up and PLAY. Tim being out is a HUGE factor, however the Spurs team is still very good.. They just need to believe that and will start winning again!

[Jimcs50]

Jim........I respect you very much but this Malik thing is getting old. I did not dislike Malik and was even a fan of his. This slump of the Spurs has nothing to do with Malik but everything to do with injuries. It's black and white! Get over it. If you need a reason to tell everyone "I told you so", then you are not the man I thought you were. Your bet is not lost yet! Why don't you channel your energy toward helping them and get behind this team. Remember the Memorial Day Miracle Shot? Let's think positive. You can not even remotely think that the players or coaching staff are enjoying the present situation. I choose to think the Spurs will prevail. Everyone loves a winner but only the tough hang in there when things are rough! Let me know when Malik and the Knicks win a title.


I never have said I told you so about this trade, I am just pointing out that the team has sucked w/o Malik, even when all players were playing. Chemistry is the only explaination, because Malik did not play in a lot of games that we won.

I said I hated the trade from the getgo, because it was money driven, and not made to improve the team.

I have not jumped ship, I still am hoping for a miracle, but I will tell you this, nobody outside this forum is still picking SA as the team to beat, and that is a fact.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Right after the trade you COULD sense that the team was lacking some chemistry and that they were in a lull. I had a bad feeling about the trade on the team psyche initially too.

But I sensed things were coming together before Tim went down. I think now we're dealing with the injury bug more than anything else.

[CHAMPS AGAIN]

Dallas won again and is now going to pass us and win the division.

Fuckyou pop!!!

TD would not have sprained his ankle had Rose been here because the rotations would have been different and he would not have landed on Rasho's foot in the first place....it all changed...it all led to this....I blame the trade of all the bad shit. Karma is a bitch.

you are right about Rasho foot,but the last time I check he landed on wallace foot regardless if this was Duncan first ankle injury or third he would still be out 2 to 4 weeks.Dallas is not going to pass us SPURS have 2 ugly games and everyone wants to give up on the SPURS.your like WE WON THE GAME,FUCKING SPURS LOST THE GAME FUCK YOU POP.Alot people are just like you in this forum, we lose and everything is wrong with the SPURS we won't win the title.One more thing GET OVER IT MALIK IS GONE

[whottt]

Hey you people to telling people to get over it...

Here's a fucking clue for you...if you click on a "Malik Rose trade will cost us the title" thead...you are likely to find that topic being discussed...so why don't you guys shut the fuck up instead of acting like someone is forcing you to read it.

And saying Malik is gone is equally stupid...yes we can't change the past...we can't change anything ever in any discussion on this board ever...using that logic there is no purpose in discussing anything...it is a discussion forum and people are gonna discuss the impact of major trades when we are in the middle of a title hunt...

If you want a cheerleader site they are out there...

If you don't want to hear about it, then don't click on the link.

Some of us want to bash the Spurs over this trade and feel it was a stupid trade...either discuss why it isn't with those interested in discussing it or STFU about it and don't click on the link.

[Jimcs50]

you are right about Rasho foot,but the last time I check he landed on wallace foot regardless if this was Duncan first ankle injury or third he would still be out 2 to 4 weeks.Dallas is not going to pass us SPURS have 2 ugly games and everyone wants to give up on the SPURS.your like WE WON THE GAME,FUCKING SPURS LOST THE GAME FUCK YOU POP.Alot people are just like you in this forum, we lose and everything is wrong with the SPURS we won't win the title.One more thing GET OVER IT MALIK IS GONE


I was being facetious about the ankle thing.

But Ed is right, the Spurs were looking good, especially in the Minn game and TD was playing like the MVP by that game. I hope if they get healthy, they can catch lightning in a bottle again, and start to dominate once again.

[Ginofan]

I have not jumped ship, I still am hoping for a miracle, but I will tell you this, nobody outside this forum is still picking SA as the team to beat, and that is a fact.

I beg to differ... Check it out (http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29011)

[Jimcs50]

I beg to differ... Check it out (http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29011)


Those are LA fans...everyone knows that they are always on drugs and are not up to date on the goings on in the world of sports outside of the greater LA area.

:)

[Ginofan]

Those are LA fans...everyone knows that they are always on drugs and are not up to date on the goings on in the world of sports outside of the greater LA area.

:)

lol so what fans ARE credible... :lol

[ducks]

the ones that say rose is so incrediable right jim?

[Jimcs50]

the ones that say rose is so incrediable right jim?


bingo, ducks.

:)

[GoSpurs21]

since we're going play the fucking IF game

THE SPURS WOULD HAVE WON 2 OF THE LAST FUCKING 3 GAMES IF TIM DUNCAN WOULD HAVE TAPED HIS ANKLES SO THAT HE WOULDN'T HAVE RE-INJURED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

might as well blame Pop for not making Tim Duncan tape his ankles so that he couldn't roll it again.

as for Malik Rose costing us the title....he wouldn't have convinced Duncan to tape his ankles either. If we don't win the title it is because Duncan got injured not because Rose was traded.

[whottt]

Who the fuck cares? Get over it.

[CHAMPS AGAIN]

Did I miss it, where is the LINK or any truth that TIM does not TAPE his ankles that is hard to believe.I feel that( WILL SEVENING) ? is in charge of this and will not allow TIM to not tape his ankles

[wildbill2u]

Kori,

Please start another forum:

"Malik Rose Doesn't Live Here Any More and Other Spilled MilkTales"

... so Jim, Manny, timvp, and above all Whott can commiserate, bitch and moan at each about the Malik/Nazr trade, share the kleenex, and assuage their traumatized psyches.

:)

It won't matter. They will bring up Malik in a thread about anything: future draft choices, ancient Spurs history, the possible return of the two-handed set shot and the underhand free throw, whatever...

[kskonn]

Did I miss it, where is the LINK or any truth that TIM does not TAPE his ankles that is hard to believe.I feel that( WILL SEVENING) ? is in charge of this and will not allow TIM to not tape his ankles


I don't remember where but people close to the team have said tim will not tape his ankels. the spurs have begged him to but he doesn't want to. It has been discussed that he might start after the most recent injury.

[kskonn]

I beg to differ... Check it out (http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29011)


Excelent... We should show the spurs that so they will believe in themselves over the next couple of games.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Is anyone else going to get a kick out of watching AHF defend the TO's and fouls of a player for a change?

Who's defending any of that? It needs to change and get better. What cracks me up is you reaming a guy who's played all of ten games in a Spurs uniform and clamoring for our dearly departed short backup big man who had worse stats his first four seasons with the squad.

Why the fuck does Malik Rose get four seasons to figure things out, but if Nazr doesn't get the Spurs system in 10 games he's a bust?

Talk about hypocritical. And your little "Aggie Hoopsfan gravitates towards stats, etc." mumbo jumbo is complete bullshit. If it weren't, I certainly wouldn't hold Manu in as high a regard as I do.

Even with Tim out we wouldn't be losing games right now if Manu was healthy. Right now is just proving that Tony will never be able to carry a team like Manu or Tim.

He's still a good player, but he's the third wheel to Tim and Manu.

[T Park]

No, I am not giving up yet.


Funny trick, since you you just said they are 1 and done.


Go away bandwagoner.

[ducks]

I am not sold manu without a healthy tp and duncan could carry this team either
manu can only play 30 -35 minutes

I think manu and tp both are equal for the spurs
if spurs did not play marbarry they would have beat the knicks
marbarry is the only player that tp has trouble with
his d is alot better this year then last year

[T Park]

But aggie,

but aggie, aw fuck it.

Your fighting a loosing fight.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

ducks,

At the start of last year when Tim and Tony were out, Manu was carrying this team (and did a great job BTW). He can do it, but he's got to be healthy (which he's not).

[whottt]

Who's defending any of that? It needs to change and get better. What cracks me up is you reaming a guy who's played all of ten games in a Spurs uniform and clamoring for our dearly departed short backup big man who had worse stats his first four seasons with the squad.

I don't want excuses for losing games, I want to win a title. I want HCA and I want to win games.




Why the fuck does Malik Rose get four seasons to figure things out, but if Nazr doesn't get the Spurs system in 10 games he's a bust?

First of all Aggie...you act like Nazr just got drafted...He's been in the league a long time. He's no rookie.

Secondly...if the Spurs couldn't fix Malik's TO and Foul problems what makes you think they'll be able to fix Nazr's?

Thirdly..the guy we traded has already stepped and become a leader on his team after 10 games...he is filling in for an injured Power Forward on a much less talented and experienced team and they are winning...they are beating teams they haven't beaten in 2 seasons...and every guy on the team just about is giving Malik Rose some amount credit for it...

While the guy we traded for isn't doing shit other than picking stupid fouls.





Talk about hypocritical. And your little "Aggie Hoopsfan gravitates towards stats, etc." mumbo jumbo is complete bullshit. If it weren't, I certainly wouldn't hold Manu in as high a regard as I do.

Not true...I said you are an efficiency freak and Manu is a very efficient player.


Even with Tim out we wouldn't be losing games right now if Manu was healthy. Right now is just proving that Tony will never be able to carry a team like Manu or Tim.

Are you going to say that our current group of bigs is stepping as well as Malik did last season when Duncan was injured?

Go ahead and say that...you'll be wrong.




He's still a good player, but he's the third wheel to Tim and Manu.

Tony wasn't wearing down in the 4th quarter when Duncan was injured last season...there's something going on with him this season.

Eva Longoria maybe.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Just because Nazr's been in the league a few years doesn't mean he's gotten good coaching. Shit, Buckets had Byron Scott call him a scrub, and we turned him into an NBA Finals Clutch performer.

As for Malik's TO and foul problems: backup big men are always going to get whistled for more fouls than normal, it's just the league's way.

As for the turnovers, Malik's were never going to be fixed because he had bad hands. I haven't seen the same from Nazr in the way of bumbling balls off his hands out of bounds, etc. Usually if he gets his hand on it it's not going anywhere he doesn't want it to go.

As for the "excuses", we aren't going anywhere without a healthy Tim Duncan. That's not an excuse, it's a fact. If you're going to be moronic enough to spin the very real fact that TD is hurt in a quest to validate Malik Rose's existence, then I have nothing further to say.

[whottt]

Just because Nazr's been in the league a few years doesn't mean he's gotten good coaching. Shit, Buckets had Byron Scott call him a scrub, and we turned him into an NBA Finals Clutch performer.


WTF? Larry Brown coached this guy for nearly 3 seasons...and then traded him.

Lenny Wilkens was his coach in New York.

He's been in the NBA for 7 seasons...Malik's only been in it for 9...the guy is only two years younger than Malik.

And we didn't turn Jack into clutch shit...that's all Jack...Pop didn't find him, Duncan did...and if anything we usually turn guys into chokers.

This guy has been in the NBA for 7 seasons...and not only could he not crack the starting lineup on some lottery teams, but they fucking traded him.

Don't ever call Isiah stupid...he just took the Hawks back up Center and turned him into 2 number 1 picks and championship calbier defensive captain and hustle player.


s for Malik's TO and foul problems: backup big men are always going to get whistled for more fouls than normal, it's just the league's way.

LOL...too funny.


As for the turnovers, Malik's were never going to be fixed because he had bad hands. I haven't seen the same from Nazr in the way of bumbling balls off his hands out of bounds, etc. Usually if he gets his hand on it it's not going anywhere he doesn't want it to go.

You are wrong about that because balls do bounce off his hands...I think he has more bounce off his hands than bounced off of Malik's.


As for the "excuses", we aren't going anywhere without a healthy Tim Duncan. That's not an excuse, it's a fact. If you're going to be moronic enough to spin the very real fact that TD is hurt in a quest to validate Malik Rose's existence, then I have nothing further to say.

So I guess that means you already know the aswer about how Malik performed VS these guys we got now.

[SuBZer0]

"We must know the past to understand the present, and face the future"

We HAVE TO look at the past; its the only way we'll fix our mistakes

And whott, I do believe you contradicted yourself


And saying Malik is gone is equally stupid...yes we can't change the past...we can't change anything ever in any discussion on this board ever...using that logic there is no purpose in discussing anything...it is a discussion forum and people are gonna discuss the impact of major trades when we are in the middle of a title hunt...


then


Who the fuck cares? Get over it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

WTF? Larry Brown coached this guy for nearly 3 seasons...and then traded him.

:lol

Yeah, when I think of coaches who have a reputation for developing YOUNG talent in the league, Larry Brown is the first one I think of.

:lmao

[whottt]

"We must know the past to understand the present, and face the future"

We HAVE TO look at the past; its the only way we'll fix our mistakes

And whott, I do believe you contradicted yourself



then


Not really...observe a quote from earlier in this thread:


who the fuck really cares?????
Malik is gone and you can't say what would have or wouldn't have happened....get over it already....Jesus Fucking Christ

Now observe who I was responding to in the quote you cited as an example of me contradicting myself...get it now?

[whottt]

:lol

Yeah, when I think of coaches who have a reputation for developing YOUNG talent in the league, Larry Brown is the first one I think of.

:lmao

What's so funny about Allen Iverson and David Robinson(among others)?

Brown has shown a lack of desire to play rookies...he coached Nazr for the better part of the 3 years Aggie...

If Nazr was listening and was capable of correcting his flaws...He wouldn't have been traded and been on the deep bench...since he was traded along with a shotblocking C for a really expensive shotblocking C(and BTW, I want you to show me where Larry Brown has struggled in bringing out the shotblocking ability of players with that talent)...I don't think he was getting it...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What do both those guys have in common? You're talking about two of the top 50 players in the league all time, both of whom came in off of NCAA record book type college careers.

Larry Brown didn't do shit to develop them, they already were fucking All-Stars.

Shit, the man couldn't even get over LeBron's youth long enough to play the third best player on Team USA, and I'm supposed to give him credit for developing youth?

GMAFB.

[whottt]

I think his problems with LeBron had more to do with attitude than with a lack of talent on LeBron's part...On top of that he had more experienced international players to play ahead of him at the same position that had played for the team the previous season.

I don't think Mohammed has attitude problems, I don't think he has any kind of attitude whatsoever...so I don't think that holds water for why he sucked ass under Brown for 3 years. I don't think there was a power struggle there...Mohammed seems like the type of player that listens to his coach and tries to do what is asked of him.

He is what he is, and I am still trying to figure out how the fuck you think Pop is going to fix those flaw if he couldn't fix them in Malik...Malik is a smart fucking guy.

On top of that...Pop hasn't even fixed Duncan's propensity for turning it over(and I wouldn't exactly say Jax left the team with the handles of Pete Mariavich either).

[joviedo]

The Answer Is Quite Simple..."You Don't Try To Fix Whats Not Broken", "You Don't Break Up Excellent Chemistry", Especially When Your In The Thick Of A Great Season With NBA Title Asperations! Well, Looks Like Someone Forgot To Remind Coach Pop of This, Because He Did Just That. No Its Not Tim Duncan Being Hurt, No It Nots Deven Brown Being Hurt...Its No Malik Rose! No disrespect To Nzar, He Is A Quality Player And Aquisition, But Not For The Price Of Malik Rose. Our Spurs Are Playing With No Desire, Little Effort, No Focus...or Quite Simply, With No Heart, No Energy! Malik Was Not A Great Player By Any Stretch Of The Imagination, But what He Gave The Spurs Each And Every Night/Day Was "Energy, Effort, Hard Work And HEART". This Trade Will Cost Our Spurs And NBA Title, Because They Are No Longer The Team They Were Prior To The Trade.

[joviedo]

The Answer Is Quite Simple..."You Don't Try To Fix Whats Not Broken", "You Don't Break Up Excellent Chemistry", Especially When Your In The Thick Of A Great Season With NBA Title Asperations! Well, Looks Like Someone Forgot To Remind Coach Pop of This, Because He Did Just That. No Its Not Tim Duncan Being Hurt, No It Nots Deven Brown Being Hurt...Its No Malik Rose! No disrespect To Nzar, He Is A Quality Player And Aquisition, But Not For The Price Of Malik Rose. Our Spurs Are Playing With No Desire, Little Effort, No Focus...or Quite Simply, With No Heart, No Energy! Malik Was Not A Great Player By Any Stretch Of The Imagination, But what He Gave The Spurs Each And Every Night/Day Was "Energy, Effort, Hard Work And HEART". This Trade Will Cost Our Spurs And NBA Title, Because They Are No Longer The Team They Were Prior To The Trade.

[Hook Dem]

Jeeeez! Another Malik thread! :blah

[davi78239]

I think you start to realize at times like this how big of a leader someone like Malik was.

[PM5K]

God that's hilarious. It's not the missing two time MVP, the guy who leads the team in points, rebounds, and blocks, it's the guy that sat at the end of the bench most of the time until they started playing him so they could trade him.....

[Hook Dem]

God that's hilarious. It's not the missing two time MVP, the guy who leads the team in points, rebounds, and blocks, it's the guy that sat at the end of the bench most of the time until they started playing him so they could trade him.....
EXACTLY!

[pjjrfan]

Well, leadership is what is at the heart of the Spur's troubles right now. Injuries have hurt, but no one has stepped up to win what have been some close games. The Sun's game and the Piston's games were very winnable if they had played well in the 4th qtrs. and this is where leadership comes in, Tony hasn't brought it, neither has Bowen or Rasho. Manu is not the same player but he has the heart and the drive to carry that load, but physically he can't do it.

You need strong personalities to build a winner, Tim is the man, but with him down, the other guys seem to be waiting around, and not doing anything about it. Early in the season Sean pointed out that Pop was providing the fire for the team when they couldn't get up for a game, and he said on the radio and then later on TV, that was not good, because he felt it should come from someone on the team, well right now, Pop's way isn't working and that weakness is rearing it's ugly head.

Still, if TD and Manu can get healthy and play well, this team is back in the hunt, having TD around can solve a lot of problems.

[whottt]

No what's hilarious is you Rose haters thinking we are trying to say the problem isn't Duncan when all we are trying to say is that we'd be better off with Duncan out if we had Malik instead of Nazr...and it's you guys that don't have the brain cells to remember what Malik has done when Duncan was out...or even to remember that he got played in those situations, regardless of if he was in the doghouse or not.

I think the point is pretty obvious...but then again Rose haters seem to have retarded observational skills, which is why they hate Rose in the first place...so I am probably just wasting my time pointing out the obvious...

If Hook were very observant he would see he is getting an Aggie's back...

[Jimcs50]

It is useless to argue the point....these people will never admit that the team chemistry, which was the best in the history of the Spurs has been awful ever since the stinkin trade.

We will not ever get to that again, and that sucks.

[SuBZer0]

Not really...observe a quote from earlier in this thread:



Now observe who I was responding to in the quote you cited as an example of me contradicting myself...get it now?

Um..you don't quite understand me. I was saying that you want to discuss the past for Malik, but you want someone else to get over whatever it was he said. You said that we need to talk about the past or this forum would have no use - he talked about the past (regardless of what) and you said get over it.

[whottt]

I know I said get over it...and I also know that I said we need to talk about the past or the forum would have no use...go back and look again and see if you notice anything new this time around.

BTW, you liked the Malik Rose trade didn't you?

[SuBZer0]

oh come on, whott, am i that hard to understand??
ok, i'll try to make it simpler. You said we need to talk about Malik Rose and the past. THEN you said that that guy should get over SOMETHING ELSE - not Malik Rose - I think it was Duncan's injury or something. So, what I am saying is, you did NOT say get over malik rose, you told him to get over SOMETHING ELSE. But why should he got over that OTHER THING if we should talk about the past in this forum

BTW - I think that Malik Rose's trade was an immensely irrational and stupid decision - you misunderstand me so you think that I am in favour of the trade, but in fact, I despise it possibly even more than you.

[SuBZer0]

Oh, and I believe that we hAVE TO talk about the past in the forums. That's why I put in that quote "must know the past...." - it's because we MUST talk about the past to fix our mistakes. I was just commenting that you said two things that were a bit contradictary that's all.

[whottt]

Well there goes my theory about the Rose haters being less observant.

Do you really want me to explain it to you?

I was being a smartass.

[cqsallie]

Jeeeez! Another Malik thread! :blah
My father used to quote H.L. Mencken. I recently became interested in what he had to say, and I have found that he probably expressed the sentiments of most people who post on the SpursTalk forum. So I'd like to post a couple of his time-honored reposts:
"The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics is often very tolerant and humane. But when fanatics are on top there is no limit to oppression."
Or how about this:
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."
Or this:
"Nature abhors a moron." :elephant

[SuBZer0]

Oh really? I was just skimming through the thread and I saw your two posts and thought they contradicted themselves. Didn't really read it closely and then when you told me to look back I thought you had misunderstood me. w/e

[Jimcs50]

Oh, and I believe that we hAVE TO talk about the past in the forums. That's why I put in that quote "must know the past...." - it's because we MUST talk about the past to fix our mistakes. I was just commenting that you said two things that were a bit contradictary that's all.


We learned nothing about the past.

ie. Charles Smith

Never trade with New York in midseason. It has disastrous ramifications.

[Hook Dem]

No what's hilarious is you Rose haters thinking we are trying to say the problem isn't Duncan when all we are trying to say is that we'd be better off with Duncan out if we had Malik instead of Nazr...and it's you guys that don't have the brain cells to remember what Malik has done when Duncan was out...or even to remember that he got played in those situations, regardless of if he was in the doghouse or not.

I think the point is pretty obvious...but then again Rose haters seem to have retarded observational skills, which is why they hate Rose in the first place...so I am probably just wasting my time pointing out the obvious...

If Hook were very observant he would see he is getting an Aggie's back...
You're calling me a Rose hater???? Read it again Whottt! Is it me who is not observant? I think not! I usually agree with your posts but you're off on this one. Malik is a good cheerleader and we miss that but it's time for someone else to step up. I watched Malik flame out against the Sonics last night and the hole he kicked in the scorers table didn't impress me. The refs are not going to respect that! He has athletic ability and was a good role player here but he is never going to lead a team to the promised land. That does not say I'm a Rose hater. Hell....I don't even hate you! I hate no one....well....maybe Kobe! :lol

[wildbill2u]

It is useless to argue the point....these people will never admit that the team chemistry, which was the best in the history of the Spurs has been awful ever since the stinkin trade.

We will not ever get to that again, and that sucks.

Well, I guess the franchise should just move to another city since the Malik fan base is so sure that the Malik trade has ruined the Spurs forever, not just this year.

[ChumpDumper]

these people will never admit that the team chemistry, which was the best in the history of the SpursIt was better in the championship years, easily.

[Jimcs50]

Well, I guess the franchise should just move to another city since the Malik fan base is so sure that the Malik trade has ruined the Spurs forever, not just this year.

Ok, I will see about them coming to College Station. They can practice in my driveway til we get them a facility built.