F'n AJ

[I. Hustle]

I am a fan of the little general but c'mon dude. When he was inducted into the SA sports hall of fame all he talked about was how he is and always will be a Spur. He was on the J Rome show today and not that he denies that but he dogged the Spurs a little and then talked about how San Antonio is on the decline.
WE CAN STILL COME BACK DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!


lol

[sammy]

Traitor! Take his fucking jersey off the rafters and burn it!

[I. Hustle]

:lol

[MoSpur]

I never thought his jersey should've been retired here in SA.

[angel_luv]

i never thought his jersey should've been retired here in sa.

+1

[MoSpur]

I just always felt like he never was all that good. He was a darn good leader and wasn't afraid to go there against anyone, but just never felt he was worthy of having his number retired.

[rayray2k8]

Wow.

[MoSpur]

+1


:wow

Really?

[remingtonbo2001]

I never thought his jersey should've been retired here in SA.


+1

:( What?

I'm flabergasted by such remarks.

[Strike]

I never thought his jersey should've been retired here in SA.

+1

Decent player, helped the spurs win the title in '99 but his jersey has no business being hung up with David, Ice, Silas, Moore, and Sean. Are they going to retire #17 for Mario Elie, too? He was a key piece to the '99 team, too.

[MoSpur]

:( What?

I'm flabergasted by such remarks.


He's a great person and all, but never thought he should've gotten his jersey retired. He's not the player that the one's previous to him were. Gervin, D-Rob, and so on.

[angel_luv]

:( What?

I'm flabergasted by such remarks.

Please Remington!

You act like this is something I have never told you before.
Or maybe it was that you were not listening? In which case you ought to be :oops not :(! :lol

[poop]

i alwasy said he should NOT have his jersey retired. nothing special at all.

a starting PG playing with the greatest frontline in history and he averages what, 11 and 6?? oh and he couldnt shoot, couldnt hit freethrows, couldnt hit 3's, couldnt defend that well, got no steals, and could barely get to the rim.

haha oh brother just cause he yelled and had a distictive loud voice doesnt mean his fckin jersey should be retired.

[urunobili]

timvp in a pro AJ post in 5, 4 , 3, 2....

[baseline bum]

Fucking haters, all of you. What did you want AJ to do? Lie out his ass and say San Antonio's best days are still coming after two horrible playoff beatdowns and the multitude of injuries to our aging stars?

[024]

what??? anyone who says the spurs have declined over the last two years is a witch!!

[Sean Cagney]

They are on the decline obviously, but with the right pieces around the three in here to help them out they are right back at it!

[galvatron3000]

The Spurs as currently constructed have declined and I'm going to also add to that. The team we have right now would not make the playoffs next season or at best a very low 7 or 8 seed. It's time to add youth, keep the trio if possible but the role players are all expendable at this point. If you don't believe that remember we lost to the Mavs, the same garbabge Mavs from last season that lost to the Hornets. You are entitled to your opinion but I'd go with mine if I was me...lol

[remingtonbo2001]

He's a great person and all, but never thought he should've gotten his jersey retired. He's not the player that the one's previous to him were. Gervin, D-Rob, and so on.

Inside joke.

[Bender]

I never thought his jersey should've been retired here in SA.
me neither

[50 cent]

I hate Ajay as much as the next guy, but he is right, we are on the decline.

We keep getting older and until we actually bring some youth in here, there is no way about getting around the fact that this Spurs team will decline more each year.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

so we are on a decline, huh? says a lot about him then. he was pretty much fired and he's coaching....i mean commentating on espn now. that should say a lot. we should put an asterisk by his jersey in the rafters.

[Obstructed_View]

Shocking how few of you were Spurs fans when AJ played. Your ignorant comments give you away. :lol

[MoSpur]

Shocking how few of you were Spurs fans when AJ played. Your ignorant comments give you away. :lol

I was an Avery Johnson fan and still am. Hated him when he coached against us as a Mavs coach though. I just don't think he deserved to get his jersey retired he. He was a great floor leader, but not much else to his game.

[sa_kid20]

Fucking haters, all of you. What did you want AJ to do? Lie out his ass and say San Antonio's best days are still coming after two horrible playoff beatdowns and the multitude of injuries to our aging stars?

For real! I mean i still have hope that we can make some noise next year but our best days are definately behind us. Reality sucks people.

[EricB]

For real! I mean i still have hope that we can make some noise next year but our best days are definately behind us. Reality sucks people.

Well I guess I should not renew the season tickets next year seeing as they have no shot.

Thanks :tu

[Flux451]

Shocking how few of you were Spurs fans when AJ played. Your ignorant comments give you away. :lol

I concur. I was estatic to see him replace Vinny Del Negro.

[sa_kid20]

Well I guess I should not renew the season tickets next year seeing as they have no shot.

Thanks :tu

Well i'm sorry i won't see you at games next year since i already renewed mine. And where did you get no shot from Debbie Downer? We still have a shot it just won't be as easy as we're all used to it being. That's just reality.

[Obstructed_View]

Well I guess I should not renew the season tickets next year seeing as they have no shot.

I'm sure everyone from your section will be pleased to hear that.

[Obstructed_View]

I concur. I was estatic to see him replace Vinny Del Negro.

And Lloyd Daniels and Negele Knight and Chris Whitney...the only decent point guard they had was Sleepy Floyd and he was only used for defense. AJ bookended a really terrible run at point guard for the Spurs, and few players in NBA history improved their game the way he did once he arrived back in SA for good.

[romsho]

He's an analyst. Sounds like he was analyzing what he as well as the rest of us have seen.

[rayray2k8]

Pretty easy to tell how long many of the spurs fans in here have been following this team.
It's the same people saying we should get behind the Rockets..
No.
And yes, the spurs are on the decline, the numbers don't lie, get over it.

[I. Hustle]

Pretty easy to tell how long many of the spurs fans in here have been following this team.
It's the same people saying we should get behind the Rockets..
No.
And yes, the spurs are on the decline, the numbers don't lie, get over it.

I have been a Spur fan all my life so don't give me that shit. I gave AJ and Vinnie D a tour of my middle school when they went to speak to all of us Toros.
It just sucks to hear someone that still somewhat represents us say that. That is not something you want to admit as a fan:flag:

[pawe]

AJ will be the Spurs' head coach when Pop retires but I will hate it when he got his number retired but Bowen's wont.

[peskypesky]

Fuck Avery! How dare he say the Spurs are in decline when they're not? I mean, all we need to do is get past the second round and we'll be in the WCF just like last year. Right?

[baseline bum]

AJ will be the Spurs' head coach when Pop retires but I will hate it when he got his number retired but Bowen's wont.

Bruce is a lock to get #12 retired.

[VI_Massive]

AJ will be the Spurs' head coach when Pop retires but I will hate it when he got his number retired but Bowen's wont.

I hope not. He is too much of a control freak. Maybe he can learn and develop, but from what I saw in Dallas, he is so abrasive and controlling that he alienates his players.

As far as the jersey, you hit a shot to win a team's first championship, you get your jersey retired.

[TheChillFactor]

Let 'em go see five-oh!!!!!!

[MI21]

Agree with Obstructed_View.

Easy to see the people who were not fans before 99'. (Not that there is anything wrong with that)

[poop]

And Lloyd Daniels and Negele Knight and Chris Whitney...the only decent point guard they had was Sleepy Floyd and he was only used for defense. AJ bookended a really terrible run at point guard for the Spurs, and few players in NBA history improved their game the way he did once he arrived back in SA for good.

oh brother..yes what a monstrous improvement. a starting PG playing first with one of the greatest big men ever and then with TWO of the greatest big men ever, and despite this he 'improved his game' to a stunning 10 ppg and 6 assists (6...can you IMAGINE some of the current PG's assist numbers if they had David and Tim down low?????:wow) whilst 'improving' his standard PG skills to the point where he still couldnt shoot, couldnt hit 3's, couldnt hit freethrows, couldnt get steals, wasnt a good defender, and had weak ballhandling speed/penetration ability.

bottom line is he was a very average PG, with a loud mouth.

in fact, his game was exactly indistinguishable from jaque vaughn's.

despite being in a position most PG's could only dream about.

and no im not a noobie who didnt see him play, ive been watching the spurs since 1994.

[Chomag]

I concur. I was estatic to see him replace Vinny Del Negro.

Wasn't the first time AJ joined the Spurs was to help replace Rod Strickland when he was out with an injury? Thats how I'm remembering it anyway.

[whottt]

It's easy to see which fans weren't fans before AJ played for the Spurs...they're the AJ fans...

Can we get an age check just to bear this out?

Seriously...what a Nazi movement the Pro-AJ's are.

[Obstructed_View]

oh brother..yes what a monstrous improvement. a starting PG playing first with one of the greatest big men ever and then with TWO of the greatest big men ever, and despite this he 'improved his game' to a stunning 10 ppg and 6 assists (6...can you IMAGINE some of the current PG's assist numbers if they had David and Tim down low?????:wow) whilst 'improving' his standard PG skills to the point where he still couldnt shoot, couldnt hit 3's, couldnt hit freethrows, couldnt get steals, wasnt a good defender, and had weak ballhandling speed/penetration ability.

bottom line is he was a very average PG, with a loud mouth.

in fact, his game was exactly indistinguishable from jaque vaughn's.

despite being in a position most PG's could only dream about.

and no im not a noobie who didnt see him play, ive been watching the spurs since 1994.

AJ was the fifth player in NBA history to increase his scoring average in each of his first seven seasons.

AJ is one of two players under six feet tall to play 1,000 career games in NBA history.

AJ averaged 9.6 assists per game in 1995-96, good for third in the league behind Stockton and Kidd. That's quite a bit better than six. I'd expect someone who was a Spurs fan back then not to have to make up shit to win an argument, or at very least to know his facts.

Anyway, AJ did all the above BEFORE Tim Duncan joined the team.

AJ topped Tony Parker's career best in assists for a season five times. AJ and Parker each had two full seasons running the point with Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Guess who had more assists. In fact, guess which one contributed to his championship with those two and which one watched from the bench. I'm not saying this to denigrate Parker, just to suggest that if AJ is comparable to Jacque Vaughn as you suggest, then by your logic JV needs to be starting ahead of Parker.

[urunobili]

AJ was the fifth player in NBA history to increase his scoring average in each of his first seven seasons.

AJ is one of two players under six feet tall to play 1,000 career games in NBA history.

AJ averaged 9.6 assists per game in 1995-96, good for third in the league behind Stockton and Kidd. That's quite a bit better than six. I'd expect someone who was a Spurs fan back then not to have to make up shit to win an argument, or at very least to know his facts.

Anyway, AJ did all the above BEFORE Tim Duncan joined the team.

AJ topped Tony Parker's career best in assists for a season five times. AJ and Parker each had two full seasons running the point with Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Guess who had more assists. In fact, guess which one contributed to his championship with those two and which one watched from the bench. I'm not saying this to denigrate Parker, just to suggest that if AJ is comparable to Jacque Vaughn as you suggest, then by your logic JV needs to be starting ahead of Parker.

:tu

[poop]

AJ was the fifth player in NBA history to increase his scoring average in each of his first seven seasons.

from what, 2 ppg to 10ppg? big deal.

AJ is one of two players under six feet tall to play 1,000 career games in NBA history.

and this means what?

AJ averaged 9.6 assists per game in 1995-96, good for third in the league behind Stockton and Kidd. That's quite a bit better than six. I'd expect someone who was a Spurs fan back then not to have to make up shit to win an argument, or at very least to know his facts.

so he had a season or 2 with decent assist numbers. with david robinson down low. still not jersey-retirement worthy.

Anyway, AJ did all the above BEFORE Tim Duncan joined the team.

AJ topped Tony Parker's career best in assists for a season five times. AJ and Parker each had two full seasons running the point with Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Guess who had more assists. In fact, guess which one contributed to his championship with those two and which one watched from the bench. I'm not saying this to denigrate Parker, just to suggest that if AJ is comparable to Jacque Vaughn as you suggest, then by your logic JV needs to be starting ahead of Parker.
Parker is a completely different kind of PG than avery was. and if your comparing the 2 your insane, Parker is a million times more effective. and if your suggesting avery would start over Parker...your just being a nostalgic emo.

[Oh, Gee!!]

what??? anyone who says the spurs have declined over the last two years is a witch!!

:lol

[Strike]

Bruce is a lock to get #12 retired.

Agreed. If Avery got #6 retired, Bruce is a lock.

[sandman]

Agreed. If Avery got #6 retired, Bruce is a lock.

Every role player that got in 5 years with the club is a lock by that standard.

[Obstructed_View]

Every role player that got in 5 years with the club is a lock by that standard.

And the ignorance keeps pouring in...

[baseline bum]

Agreed. If Avery got #6 retired, Bruce is a lock.

No, Bowen's a lock because he was at worst the third most important player in getting the last three titles; definitely the second most important for getting the 2003 ring and arguably #2 in getting the 07 title. Without Bowen, no way does Chauncey Billups not continue murdering the Spurs in OT in game 5 of 2005 either. Billups was as hot as you can get torching everyone else until Pop switched Bowen off Hamilton and onto him with about 2-3 minutes left in OT.

[Obstructed_View]

No, Bowen's a lock because he was at worst the third most important player in getting the last three titles; definitely the second most important for getting the 2003 ring and arguably #2 in getting the 07 title.

Yeah, Bowen's value is higher than AJ's is, but that's not a knock on either of them. AJ helped to turn around a team that was a perennial playoff flop. There may not have been the other if not for the one.

[I. Hustle]

OK look I didn't mean to turn this into a let's hate AJ thread. I was being funny and I thought that the first person to respond was being sarcastic which is why I followed it up with the :lol

I was always for retiring AJ's jersey I just didn't care for what he said about us being on the decline. It's like hear David or Sean say it. I think during his time here he was more than just a "role" player. I really did not expect this type of response.

As for comparing him to Mario Ellie I mean C'mon... C'MON!

[baseline bum]

Yeah, Bowen's value is higher than AJ's is, but that's not a knock on either of them. AJ helped to turn around a team that was a perennial playoff flop. There may not have been the other if not for the one.

AJ entered the team as a complete scrub and came out a top-10 PG by the time '98 or so rolled around. Anyone over the age of 20 should know how important AJ was to the Spurs.

[I. Hustle]

To say that Bruce doesn't deserve it is bull too. I mean when people think Spurs they think defense. He was the only one that was able to lock down players the caliber of Kobe and LeBron. That alone is worth it.

[poop]

AJ helped to turn around a team that was a perennial playoff flop. There may not have been the other if not for the one.

you are seriously delusional, AJ was PART OF the perennial playoff flopping teams. a guy name TIM DUNCAN was the one who turned the team around and made the underachieving end. also in '99 mario elie was a significant part of toughening up the team and its mentality. AJ was certainly NOT a significant factor in getting the team over the hump.

[Obstructed_View]

you are seriously delusional, AJ was PART OF the perennial playoff flopping teams. a guy name TIM DUNCAN was the one who turned the team around and made the underachieving end. also in '99 mario elie was a significant part of toughening up the team and its mentality. AJ was certainly NOT a significant factor in getting the team over the hump.

You've already made numerous posts to show how little you know about this subject. You're just beating a dead horse at this point.

[meestahmeestah]

Shocking how few of you were Spurs fans when AJ played. Your ignorant comments give you away. :lol

point guards I would take before AJ if a pick-up game happened and I could pick from anyone up until AJ's fourth and last stint as a Spur:

James Silas
Johnny Moore (pre-spinal meningitis)
John Lucas
Rod Strickland
Maurice Cheeks
Johnny Moore (post-spinal meningitis)

hell, I would see if Jud Buechler or Jon Sundvold wanted to roll at point before I'd pick AJ. At least those dudes could shoot a little.

So, you can take your "waahh, I've been a Spurs fan longer than you so that makes me a super-fan!" attitude and cram it down on the end of the bench with Chris Whitney.

[baseline bum]

you are seriously delusional, AJ was PART OF the perennial playoff flopping teams. a guy name TIM DUNCAN was the one who turned the team around and made the underachieving end. also in '99 mario elie was a significant part of toughening up the team and its mentality. AJ was certainly NOT a significant factor in getting the team over the hump.

AJ was FAR better than Mario vs Minnesota, LA, and Portland. Mario did step his game up bigtime against the Knicks though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tarkanian was right. He had no business being a starting PG in this league. The only reason why he was even passable was because of having the best frontcourt of the last 20 years.

Making one shot in the finals doesn't make up for all the backbiting and mediocrity. The defection to Dallas was just insult to injury.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

AJ entered the team as a complete scrub and came out a top-10 PG by the time '98 or so rolled around.

:downspin::lol :bang:wow:nope:rolleyes:p::downspin::lol:bang:lmao :bking

Defensively: nope he lacked size and lateral quickness. he was consistently a liability on defense.

Offensively: outside of the championship season, he never had a jumpshot. even in that season, he was only able to shoot on one spot on the floor. that was where he shot the 'game winning' shot against NY. his assist:TO ratio was pedestrian. he certainly did not have the quickness to create his own shots. He was able to run the offense and that was about it.

Leadership: we got marketing spammed this constantly about the 'Little General.' But he was referred to as a snake in the grass by a teammate and when Malik Rose told him off during the 200 season during which AJ was sucking major ass, the Little Asshole attacked Rose in the shower.

Robinson listened to him and respected him but what was telling to me is that he went off to Dallas to play his last few years for less than he was making here. That tells me that Duncan didn't want him.

Quite frankly Johnson's skillset is about the same as Vaughn's but at least Vaughn isn't an asshole and hell Vaughn is a better defender.

Are you saying that Vaughn is a top 10 PG?

[GSH]

When the Spurs won their first Championship, AJ got up and talked about... AJ.

When David Robinson's jersey got retired, AJ got up and talked about... AJ.

When the Mavs won, AJ talked about... AJ.

When the Mavs lost, AJ talked about... the Mavs players.

He's an overrated, irritating, egotistical, back-stabbing, piano-keys-for-teeth, troll doll. He was a mediocre point guard, at best, and I honestly don't know if he was ever any better than Jacque Vaughn was this season. Now that they've retired his jersey, they might as well go ahead and retire Vinny Del Negro's too.

[ATXSPUR]

The AJ hate on this thread is ridiculous. He coached against us in 2006. Get over it. I don't know why you guys are so surprised. He's pointing about something that has been evident since game two in the Laker series last year. Anybody that didn't have their head in the sand saw what would happen this season coming from a mile away then.

[GSH]

The AJ hate on this thread is ridiculous. He coached against us in 2006. Get over it. I don't know why you guys are so surprised. He's pointing about something that has been evident since game two in the Laker series last year. Anybody that didn't have their head in the sand saw what would happen this season coming from a mile away then.


I would guess that most of the AJ hate has nothing to do with this thread, or the comments he made recently. I know mine doesn't. The talk about him being a mediocre point guard is due to the fact that he was a mediocre point guard. And the rest is because he is an asshole, and he seriously looks like a fucking troll doll.

I don't give a damn if he said the Spurs weren't as good this post-season. I would hate AJ if he was doing the local weather. And his jersey hanging in the rafters next to David's and Gervin's is a travesty.

[baseline bum]

Quite frankly Johnson's skillset is about the same as Vaughn's but at least Vaughn isn't an asshole and hell Vaughn is a better defender.

Are you saying that Vaughn is a top 10 PG?

:lmao

I have seen a lot of ridiculous things posted on ST, but that takes the cake. Congrats! :toast

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

I have seen a lot of ridiculous things posted on ST, but that takes the cake. Congrats! :toast

Hey at least I can back up my stance. AJ was not a very good defender. He wasnt very good at penetration and he was a horrible jump shooter.

At the end of the day he was nowhere close to being a top 10 PG in the NBA. At the end of the day that is pretty much Vaughn's skillset except Vaughn can defend.

I remember guys like Hardaway, Stockton, MArbury, Payton, Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Terrell Brandon and pretty much any decent point guard raping him time after time. Thats why it was so great to see Tony dominate a guy like Payton because Johnson allowed him to abuse us for years.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The AJ hate on this thread is ridiculous. He coached against us in 2006. Get over it. I don't know why you guys are so surprised. He's pointing about something that has been evident since game two in the Laker series last year. Anybody that didn't have their head in the sand saw what would happen this season coming from a mile away then.

I have hated AJ long before he was a Mav. I don't even know or care what he said.

[baseline bum]

Hey at least I can back up my stance. AJ was not a very good defender. He wasnt very good at penetration and he was a horrible jump shooter.

At the end of the day he was nowhere close to being a top 10 PG in the NBA. At the end of the day that is pretty much Vaughn's skillset except Vaughn can defend.

I remember guys like Hardaway, Stockton, MArbury, Payton, Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Terrell Brandon and pretty much any decent point guard raping him time after time. Thats why it was so great to see Tony dominate a guy like Payton because Johnson allowed him to abuse us for years.

Did you also remember the time AJ raped a PG trio of Kidd/KJ/Nash in the playoffs? 20.5 PPG on 65% shooting with 6 assists a night ring a bell? The next series against Stockton he had 15 and 6 assists on 56% shooting. What a scrub. How about when he dropped 19.5 a night on Terrrell Brandon in the 99 playoffs on 59% shooting? Or when he outplayed a young Stoudamire in the WCF back when Damon was considered a top PG? I'm sure Jacque Vaughn has done that; could you please provide me the link? AJ wasn't good at penetration? Have you never seen the guy play? He got lots of points going to the basket and putting in that scoop shot. And where do you get this Parker dominating Payton idea? In their playoff matchups he's had 3 good games and 4 of the worst showings of his career against Payton. You're only remembering what you want to remember, and you have nothing to back your hatred except mistaken recollections.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did you also remember the time AJ raped a PG trio of Kidd/KJ/Nash in the playoffs? 20.5 PPG on 65% shooting with 6 assists a night ring a bell? The next series against Stockton he had 15 and 6 assists on 56% shooting. What a scrub. How about when he dropped 19.5 a night on Terrrell Brandon in the 99 playoffs on 59% shooting? Or when he outplayed a young Stoudamire in the WCF back when Damon was considered a top PG? I'm sure Jacque Vaughn has done that; could you please provide me the link? AJ wasn't good at penetration? Have you never seen the guy play? He got lots of points going to the basket and putting in that scoop shot. And where do you get this Parker dominating Payton idea? In their playoff matchups he's had 3 good games and 4 of the worst showings of his career against Payton. You're only remembering what you want to remember, and you have nothing to back your hatred except mistaken recollections.

I have watched the guy play plenty. The only time he got to the bucket is if someone was late on a rotation or took stupid pills and tried to go over a screen

All AJ did against Stoudamire was turn in to a chucker trying to prove a point. He still couldn't shoot. The only good game he had that series was the last one when he decided to stop chucking 15 shots a game or more likely Pop got into his ass.

The 'top 10 pg' had career highs of 13 points and 8 assists. According to you his pinnacle year was 1999 when he went 10/7. Vaughn has tops of 18/7.

Both are spares.

[baseline bum]

I have watched the guy play plenty. The only time he got to the bucket is if someone was late on a rotation or took stupid pills and tried to go over a screen

All AJ did against Stoudamire was turn in to a chucker trying to prove a point. He still couldn't shoot. The only good game he had that series was the last one when he decided to stop chucking 15 shots a game or more likely Pop got into his ass.

The 'top 10 pg' had career highs of 13 points and 8 assists. According to you his pinnacle year was 1999 when he went 10/7. Vaughn has tops of 18/7.

Both are spares.

So how did he score 20PPG and shoot 65% against Kidd/KJ/Nash if never had a jumper and couldn't get to the basket? When did Vaughn ever put up 18 and 7? At Kansas? :lmao

[Obstructed_View]

point guards I would take before AJ if a pick-up game happened and I could pick from anyone up until AJ's fourth and last stint as a Spur:

James Silas
Johnny Moore (pre-spinal meningitis)
John Lucas
Rod Strickland
Maurice Cheeks
Johnny Moore (post-spinal meningitis)

hell, I would see if Jud Buechler or Jon Sundvold wanted to roll at point before I'd pick AJ. At least those dudes could shoot a little.

So, you can take your "waahh, I've been a Spurs fan longer than you so that makes me a super-fan!" attitude and cram it down on the end of the bench with Chris Whitney.

So a hypothetical that requires a time machine somehow constitutes a solid argument to you? The fact that you are a competent name-dropper doesn't mean you know what the fuck you're talking about.

[poop]

AJ = Jaque Vaughn.

same exact skillset. play Vaughn with David and Tim for 40 minutes and he would get 10 and 7 too.

he never 'got us over the hump', that concept is ridiculous and anyone whose been watching the spurs for a while would know that. with him as our leader, we were soft and constantly underachieved. with him as Dallas's coach, they were soft and constantly underachieved. so much for the 'great leader' arguement that was supposed to override his mediocre stat lines.

bottom line, his jersey hanging up there with David, Gervin, etc. is a joke. if we retired his we may as well have retired Malik Rose's and del negro's too.

[Gervin44Silas13]

THey SHOULD Have Given #6 to Manu fuck AJ!!

[Gervin44Silas13]

So a hypothetical that requires a time machine somehow constitutes a solid argument to you? The fact that you are a competent name-dropper doesn't mean you know what the fuck you're talking about.

Don't forget Greg Sutton.....

[Gervin44Silas13]

point guards I would take before AJ if a pick-up game happened and I could pick from anyone up until AJ's fourth and last stint as a Spur:

James Silas
Johnny Moore (pre-spinal meningitis)
John Lucas
Rod Strickland
Maurice Cheeks
Johnny Moore (post-spinal meningitis)

hell, I would see if Jud Buechler or Jon Sundvold wanted to roll at point before I'd pick AJ. At least those dudes could shoot a little.

So, you can take your "waahh, I've been a Spurs fan longer than you so that makes me a super-fan!" attitude and cram it down on the end of the bench with Chris Whitney.



Don't Forget Greg Sutton....Tom Copa...Monty Willams??????

[Spurminator]

Should I feel weird for being indifferent about all of this?

[baseline bum]

he never 'got us over the hump', that concept is ridiculous and anyone whose been watching the spurs for a while would know that. with him as our leader, we were soft and constantly underachieved.


The 99 team was soft?



with him as Dallas's coach, they were soft and constantly underachieved.


By beating a 63-win Spurs team that was the defending champ on the road in game 7?

[baseline bum]

Don't Forget Greg Sutton....Tom Copa...Monty Willams??????

Tom Copa? You'd rather have a center who couldn't get on the floor running the point?

[poop]

The 99 team was soft?



By beating a 63-win Spurs team that was the defending champ on the road in game 7?

as i mentioned before, the '99 team had TIM DUNCAN (who was the true team leader by then) as well as mario elie whodespite not getting big numbers helped to toughen up the team mentally. previous to the Duncan era the Spurs ('led' by AJ) were certainly a soft, underachieving team.

and that same Mavs team-predictably- choked after blowing their load against the Spurs in one of the great Finals meltdowns in history, an epic underachievement

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The fact that AJ has been acting like an asshole, especially in the Spurs-Mavs series in 2006, doesn't mean his number shouldn't have been retired. Everyone who has followed the Spurs closely at the time when he was our PG knows how valuable he was to the team, even though he certainly wasn't a great player.He meant a lot to this team and he was a big part of the '99 Championship run.

There's no point arguing with people who look at the 10 and 6 stats and say oh he was a bad PG, whatever. The same type of people will look at Bowen's numbers in a few years and will wonder why his jersey will be retired as well.

[GSH]

The fact that AJ has been acting like an asshole


You're missing the point. AJ hasn't been acting like an asshole. AJ IS an asshole. It's not an act.




He meant a lot to this team and he was a big part of the '99 Championship run.



The fact that the Spurs didn't have a better option at PG isn't grounds for retiring his jersey. If you'll allow me a movie reference: AJ was important to the '99 Championship run in the same way Forrest Gump was important to the Viet Nam War - he was there, and he took part.

Look at it another way: there isn't another team in the league that would have retired Avery Johnson's jersey. The few players who get their jersies retired are legends. AJ took on extra importance here because the Spurs have such a loyal home town fan base. We'll embrace a guy like AJ, and treat him like royalty. The Celtics (for example) would die before seeing his jersey hanging in the rafters with the likes of Bill Russell. Well the AT&T Center has some pretty lofty company, too. And Avery Johnson just wasn't good enough to be one of them.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So how did he score 20PPG and shoot 65% against Kidd/KJ/Nash if never had a jumper and couldn't get to the basket? When did Vaughn ever put up 18 and 7? At Kansas? :lmao

Youre the one talking about selective memory. In 1999, AJ was able to consistently hit the 12 foot jumper from the wing on the weakside. He would consistently get an open look from that spot as Duncan was getting doubled on the strongside. He also could get to the basket because Robinson/Duncan setting screens and the defense overplaying the bigman. Neither scenarios are anything other than him taking advantage of playing with the best frontcourt since Parrish/McHale/Bird.

As for Vaughn. Look up his stats and you'll see that he put that up in his second year in the league. Quite frankly Jacque Vaughn is a better ballplayer than Johnson. He played better defense was a better scorer and just as good of a passer.

Johnson is a spare.

[Obstructed_View]

There's no point arguing with people who look at the 10 and 6 stats and say oh he was a bad PG, whatever. The same type of people will look at Bowen's numbers in a few years and will wonder why his jersey will be retired as well.

[poop]

i watched both Avery and Bowen's careers as spurs and theres no comparison. bowen had shitty numbers but its easy as pie to see how important he was to us winning titles. AJ was along for the ride.

[z0sa]

The Little General will always have a special place in Spurfan's heart, but his jersey should not be hanging in the rafters.

[Kermit]

:lmao:lmao

If the Architect wants number 6 retired to honor the man, that should speak volumes. He was never a top 10 pg but he was an integral part of the Spurs for a pretty long time. Let it go.

[Admiral]

I like Avery a lot, and agree with his statement that the Spurs are on the decline. Evidence over the past two seasons supports that. Acknowledging the facts doesn't make him a "traitor" or a "Spurs hater," and it should not cause us to question his love for the Spurs. After his many years of play for our Spurs, as well as his involvement since then, I don't think his devotion should be in question.

As for his jersey being retired, I prefer that teams (our Spurs included) reserve the honor of a retired jersey for those players who were truly outstanding. At the minimum, an All-Star Game appearance seems to be warranted, and in most cases some league honors. Players with special meaning to the team and/or city, or who hold a significant team record, should be considered. I think this is the rationale with regard to AJ. I don't really agree with it, but I don't think it is a huge deal either.

[symple19]

I have NO problem with a guy for doing his job, which is to analyze. Avery was a joy to watch, and I can still remember his distinctive leadership style. Getting in his teammates faces, and not allowing anyone to play below the level he himself played at. No, he wasn't the best defender, but he was good at getting into the lane and creating opportunities. Those who haven't played organized sports will never understand how important a guy like him is, and I'm not so sure the Spurs win that title (99') without him. I will always be an Avery fan, and can't wait until I get to visit San Antonio to glimpse that jersey hanging in the rafters.

[baseline bum]

As for Vaughn. Look up his stats and you'll see that he put that up in his second year in the league. Quite frankly Jacque Vaughn is a better ballplayer than Johnson. He played better defense was a better scorer and just as good of a passer.

Johnson is a spare.

:lmao

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jacque_vaughn/career_stats.html
2nd year: 2.3 ppg, 0.6 asg. A bit of a far cry from 18/7 :lol

His top year is 6.6 and 4.3 in Atlanta in 01-02. Why do you keep kicking your own ass in this thread?

I loved your AJ arguments too:

Argument 1: KJ owned AJ
I proceeded to show you AJ kicking KJ's (and Kidd's) ass in the 98 playoffs, which you obviously ignore because it's devastating to your argument.

Argument 2: Stockton owned AJ
I showed you a series where AJ more than held his own in 98, which is the time I noted when AJ finally arrived.

Argument 3: Terrell Brandon owned AJ
LOL. AJ curb-stomped Brandon in the playoffs; completely destroyed him.

Quit being a hater.

[daslicer]

I don't like AJ and I was one of the few who felt his jersey shouldn't have been retired but I don't feel offended by his arguments. The last 2 years I have felt the spurs have been on the decline because the way they have lost games against elite teams. Can you guys ever remember a few years back the spurs calling it quits at the start of the third quarter because they felt they couldn't win the game. Thats all you need to know how far the spurs have gone down recently.

[Avitus1]

I've always thought that his jersey should have been retired in a toilet stall somewhere.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jacque_vaughn/career_stats.html
2nd year: 2.3 ppg, 0.6 asg. A bit of a far cry from 18/7 :lol

His top year is 6.6 and 4.3 in Atlanta in 01-02. Why do you keep kicking your own ass in this thread?

I loved your AJ arguments too:

Argument 1: KJ owned AJ
I proceeded to show you AJ kicking KJ's (and Kidd's) ass in the 98 playoffs, which you obviously ignore because it's devastating to your argument.

Argument 2: Stockton owned AJ
I showed you a series where AJ more than held his own in 98, which is the time I noted when AJ finally arrived.

Argument 3: Terrell Brandon owned AJ
LOL. AJ curb-stomped Brandon in the playoffs; completely destroyed him.

Quit being a hater.

Look up cherry picking statistics and get back to me.

[LakerHater]

Traitor! Take his fucking jersey off the rafters and burn it!


I never thought his jersey should've been retired here in SA.


+1


+1

Decent player, helped the spurs win the title in '99 but his jersey has no business being hung up with David, Ice, Silas, Moore, and Sean. Are they going to retire #17 for Mario Elie, too? He was a key piece to the '99 team, too.


He's a great person and all, but never thought he should've gotten his jersey retired. He's not the player that the one's previous to him were. Gervin, D-Rob, and so on.


Totally Agree!!

[baseline bum]

Look up cherry picking statistics and get back to me.

Cherry picking? I said he was a top10 point guard by '98. Maybe 10 is a bit high, but not by much if at all. I posted series that directly refute your hating on AJ. AJ was excellent in the 98 post-season and pretty good in 99 too. It's laughable that you'd ever compare a solid starting point guard to worthless Jacque Vaughn and then make up statistics that are so far from reality to try to back it up.