Photos of AF1 buzzing NYC not released

[DarrinS]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05052009/news/regionalnews/phantom_air_farce_pictures_167671.htm




The $328,835 snapshots of an Air Force One backup plane buzzing lower Manhattan last week will not be shown to the public, the White House said yesterday.

"We have no plans to release them," an aide to President Obama told The Post, refusing to comment further.

The sole purpose of the secret photo-op, which sent thousands of New Yorkers running for cover, was to take new publicity shots of the presidential jet over the city.

"The photos . . . are classified -- that's ridiculous," Councilman Peter Vallone Jr., said.

The photos have not technically been "classified," a White House aide said, but they are being kept from public view.

New Yorkers said they could not understand how a president who shares intimate snapshots from the White House could justify keeping these secret.

"So we're not gonna see the fruits of this cruel joke?" said Frank Antonelli, 39, one of the Wall Street traders spooked by last week's flyover.

"I'm not surprised. Obama . . . wouldn't further all the bad publicity by putting out those pictures."

[PixelPusher]

If we could focus all this venom and vitriol info fighting Islamic terrorist (instead of Obama admin boogeymen), the war on terror could be won handily.

[FaithInOne]

Leave it up to government to piss away $300,000.

[ChumpDumper]

It's important!™

[George Gervin's Afro]

Leave it up to government to piss away $300,000.

or 4,000 + dead GIs

[ChumpDumper]

or 4,000 + dead GIsThat only cost $800,000,000,000.

So far.

[FaithInOne]

No arguments from me.

[George Gervin's Afro]

That only cost $800,000,000,000.

So far.

Chump don't be such a kool aid drinker. You must be outraged at Obama for blowing 300 big ones!

[Winehole23]

100,000+ Iraqis dead, millions internally displaced, Iraq's economy and infrastructure wrecked, US installed DAWA and SCIRI leading the country to sectarian civil war.

Yeah, Iraq owes us gratitude for wasting their whole country for reasons of political expedience rather than national security.

[FaithInOne]

He's not Bush!™


Let's talk about Bush!™


Bush is still in office!™


Bush > Godwin's Law ™


Obama is uber change compared to Bush, He told me so! ™

Jeb Bush 2012!

[George Gervin's Afro]

100,000+ Iraqis dead, millions internally displaced, Iraq's economy and infrastructure wrecked, US installed DAWA and SCIRI leading the country to sectarian civil war.

Yeah, Iraq owes us gratitude for wasting their whole country for reasons of political expedience rather than national security.

This photo op trumps the uncessary war Obama koolaid drinker!

[Winehole23]

Three trillion spent since September to backstop the banksters, with $12 trillion more to be committed, not including any eventual re-stimulus.

[FaithInOne]

Trillion Shhmillion™

[ChumpDumper]

No arguments from me.


He's not Bush!™


Let's talk about Bush!™


Bush is still in office!™


Bush > Godwin's Law ™


Obama is uber change compared to Bush, He told me so! ™

Jeb Bush 2012!So there is an argument from you.

[FaithInOne]

Two wrongs make a right.™

[ChumpDumper]

There are degrees or wrongness.

[Oh, Gee!!]

i heard swine flu was a distraction to keep af-1gate out of public consiousness

[Ignignokt]

Jeffrey Dahmer should not be shunned, when Truman killed thousands.

-progressives.

[Ignignokt]

i heard swine flu was a distraction to keep af-1gate out of public consiousness

or from levi johnston's Tyra interview.

[PixelPusher]

Jeffrey Dahmer should not be shunned, when Truman killed thousands.

-progressives.

...but Jeffrey Dahmer killed AMERICANS dammit!!!!

-conservatives.

:monkey fling, :monkey poo...

[ChumpDumper]

gtown is making less sense than usual.

[Ignignokt]

gtown is making less sense than usual.

Chumpdumper is being as relevant as usual.

[Ignignokt]

...but Jeffrey Dahmer killed AMERICANS dammit!!!!

-conservatives.

:monkey fling, :monkey poo...

:sleep Oh, i wasn't going to get in a sarcastic poo war with you, i was just shitting on your unoriginal dry humor.

[ChumpDumper]

Chumpdumper is being as relevant as usual.This entire thread is irrelevant.

[FaithInOne]

Which is why the subject got changed from NY Photo shoot to Bush's Iraqi Vacation right?


™

[ChumpDumper]

Exactly.

No one has ever said this was a great idea. Everyone agrees it was a stupid mistake.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Jeffrey Dahmer should not be shunned, when Truman killed thousands.

-progressives.

life has shunned them both

[DarrinS]

I see that this thread has triggered the "Bush lied, people died" autoresponse.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you want the photos released?

If yes, Why?

[DarrinS]

Do you want the photos released?

If yes, Why?


Actually, I don't really care.

[JoeChalupa]

I don't care either but they should be released.

[Winehole23]

I see that this thread has triggered the "Bush lied, people died" autoresponse.$300,000 dollars is not a fiscally significant sum.

[DarrinS]

$300,000 dollars is not a fiscally significant sum.

no

[Yonivore]

I see...

Release damaging photos of interrogations for no good reason.

Withhold photos of a publicity shoot.

Makes sense.

[ChumpDumper]

What interrogation photos were released?

[Yonivore]

What interrogation photos were released?
The one's he's already committed to releasing. Are you saying that's not going to happen now?

[ChumpDumper]

I had no knowledge of the pictures.

Why were they taken?

[Winehole23]

Release damaging photos of interrogations for no good reason.Accountability, moral courage, historical truth and equality before the law apparently cuts no ice with Yoni.

[Wild Cobra]

One more nail in the coffin. He will go down as one of the worse presidents in history.

[Winehole23]

^^^Broken record masquerading as an oracle.

[Yonivore]

Accountability, moral courage, historical truth and equality before the law apparently cuts no ice with Yoni.
Al Qaeda is laughing...even as they plan the global protests of outrage surely to kill more people than were harmed in any of photographs to be released.

Just like Obama's promise to end the war in Iraq...only to extend his deadline (and with recent uptick in violence and recent attacks by Iran inside Iraq, the chance of extending it yet again).

Just like Obama's promise to abandon the military tribunals...only to realize that'd be stupid.

Just like Obama's promise to go into Pakistan and root out bin Laden...only to realize his rhetoric has destablized the region further.

Just like Obama's promise to close Guantanamo Bay...only to have his Democrat colleagues in the Congress say...wait a minute, they're fucking dangerous.

Yep, just like all of these...he'll regret this decision or...like the others, he'll change his mind once he realizes how dangerous it is.

George Bush's policies are looking better and better to this idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, Al Qaeda are laughing about people bitching on message boards about pictures of airplanes.

[Yonivore]

Yeah, Al Qaeda are laughing about people bitching on message boards about pictures of airplanes.
No, New Yorkers are. You know, our fellow citizens. Who gives a fuck what al Qaeda thinks of the incident?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

The amount of feigned outrage being displayed by conservatives on this board over any and every straw they can grasp is reaching ludicrous proportions. Give it the fuck up Yoni, nobody here really believes you actually care about any of this shit, other than for the obvious partisan hack agenda bullshit which permeates your every. fucking. post.

Congrats, you're Dan in disguise basically

[Yonivore]

The amount of feigned outrage being displayed by conservatives on this board over any and every straw they can grasp is reaching ludicrous proportions. Give it the fuck up Yoni, nobody here really believes you actually care about any of this shit, other than for the obvious partisan hack agenda bullshit which permeates your every. fucking. post.

Congrats, you're Dan in disguise basically
Oh please! 60 minutes devotes an episode to fake memos that cause the liberal left to go bananas for years and you'd begrudge me a few days of suspicion over why the White House refuses to release alleged PUBLICITY PHOTOS?

Good call. Why don't you give it up.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Oh please! 60 minutes devotes an episode to fake memos that cause the liberal left to go bananas for years and you'd begrudge me a few days of suspicion over why the White House refuses to release alleged PUBLICITY PHOTOS?

Good call. Why don't you give it up.

well, congrats, you're acting like that which you seemingly couldn't stand. The left has been overreacting to shit for years, its your turn I guess... :rolleyes

[jack sommerset]

Release the fucking photo's. Its a story not releasing them and not given a reason for it. Throw in 300,000 bones to pay for this shit,not telling NYC they were doing this and scaring people half to death makes NO sense! This guy is a douche bag. I have a feeling the the photos are a bust.

[Winehole23]

Al Qaeda is laughing...even as they plan the global protests of outrage surely to kill more people than were harmed in any of photographs to be released.

Just like Obama's promise to end the war in Iraq...only to extend his deadline (and with recent uptick in violence and recent attacks by Iran inside Iraq, the chance of extending it yet again).

Just like Obama's promise to abandon the military tribunals...only to realize that'd be stupid.

Just like Obama's promise to go into Pakistan and root out bin Laden...only to realize his rhetoric has destablized the region further.

Just like Obama's promise to close Guantanamo Bay...only to have his Democrat colleagues in the Congress say...wait a minute, they're fucking dangerous.

Yep, just like all of these...he'll regret this decision or...like the others, he'll change his mind once he realizes how dangerous it is.

George Bush's policies are looking better and better to this idiot.I thought you liked GWB's policies. Until a few months ago you defended them anyway. But this is a quibble.

You ducked my point and you're barking up the wrong tree with your own: I'm one of the guys who's been stressing the continuity.

[Winehole23]

You don't really pay attention who you're talking to, do you?

[Winehole23]

It might have something to do with why, after eight years on SpursTalk, you have zero friends.

[Winehole23]

You should really stop using this board as your personal barf bag.

[Yonivore]

You should really stop using this board as your personal barf bag.
You have the power to put me on ignore. Use it.

[Yonivore]

well, congrats, you're acting like that which you seemingly couldn't stand. The left has been overreacting to shit for years, its your turn I guess... :rolleyes
You'd have a point if I'm still talking about this in 4 years.

[Yonivore]

I thought you liked GWB's policies. Until a few months ago you defended them anyway. But this is a quibble.
I still support them.

It's the hypocrisy (maybe stupidity) of Obama slamming those policies and then, after obtaining office, falling back on them.


You ducked my point and you're barking up the wrong tree with your own: I'm one of the guys who's been stressing the continuity.
You don't have a point.

[Winehole23]

You have the power to put me on ignore. Use it.I'd rather not. You're too comical.

[Winehole23]

You don't have a point.No worries, I'll refresh your memory.

Revealing corrupt practices and crimes (like torture) serves historical truth, morality and legal accountability. Plus, the people have a right to know what their government does in their name.

[Yonivore]

No worries, I'll refresh your memory.

Revealing corrupt practices and crimes (like torture) serves historical truth, morality and legal accountability. Plus, the people have a right to know what their government does in their name.
You'd have a point if it had been torture. And, besides, doesn't the world already know what's been done? Into beating dead horses to further trash our country, are you?

[Yonivore]

I'd rather not. You're too comical.
So, quit'cher bitching then.

[Wild Cobra]

Funny how there are now new spins on the flu. The media is doing their best to keep it a story.

[Winehole23]

So, quit'cher bitching then.You first.

[Winehole23]

You'd have a point if it had been torture. And, besides, doesn't the world already know what's been done? Into beating dead horses to further trash our country, are you?More rectal-cranial inversion. Enjoy the view, Yoni.

[Yonivore]

You should really stop using this board as your personal barf bag.
Hey, you started with the advice...I was just suggesting a solution to your obvious discomfort with my posting.

Take it, leave it, keep bitching...I really don't care.

[jack sommerset]

Hey, you started with the advice...I was just suggesting a solution to your obvious discomfort with my posting.

Take it, leave it, keep bitching...I really don't care.

I know this is not the coolest thing to say but WineHole might be a "special" person.

[Winehole23]

I know this is not the coolest thing to say but WineHole might be a "special" person.What a wuss. Why so tentative and meek? Come right out and say what you really mean.

[jack sommerset]

What a wuss. Why so tentative and meek? Come right out and say what you really mean.

Thinking this maybe a sensitive issue for you, you should tell us?

[Winehole23]

Thinking this maybe a sensitive issue for you, you should tell us?I have no idea what you mean. You think I'm handicapped? Mentally retarded? Gay?

Be a man. Quit mincing around and say it. I can take it.

[jack sommerset]

I have no idea what you mean. You think I'm handicapped? Mentally retarded? Gay?

Be a man. Quit mincing around and say it. I can take it.

Handicapped or mentally challenged. Which is it?

[Winehole23]

You tell me, Doc.

u8yoSAiwY18

[George Gervin's Afro]

I know this is not the coolest thing to say but WineHole might be a "special" person.

special person like Yonivore, wild cobra ,and jack sommerset?

[jack sommerset]

You tell me, Doc.

u8yoSAiwY18

:lol ...my answer....... a little bit of both leaning towards handicapped with some fag in u.

[Winehole23]

You're obsessed with teh gheys, Jack. Jealous much? Or are you just curious?

[Winehole23]

Thinking this maybe a sensitive issue for you...You're monstrously insincere, Jack, but I guess you knew that already.

[jack sommerset]

You're obsessed with teh gheys, Jack. Jealous much? Or are you just curious?

No, no....... and no. Thought you might want to tell ur story.

[IceColdBrewski]

The sole purpose of the secret photo-op, which sent thousands of New Yorkers running for cover, was to take new publicity shots of the presidential jet over the city.

Could've accomplished the same thing with a computer and a photoshop geek in about 10 minutes.

[IceColdBrewski]

Publicity shots that will never be released to the public. Hilarious.

[Winehole23]

No, no....... and no. Thought you might want to tell ur story.You'd like to hear it?

You are curious.

It may come as a shock to you that your gaydar is a little haywire.

You see, I'm a lesbian trapped in a masculine body. It was very hard for me to come out, but I had a lot of support and a lot of great friends to help me through it, and I'm very proud of who I am now. Fortunately my wife is cool with it, too. The adjustment was rough for us both, but now we're very happy together.

I know how important your gaydar is to you, and I'm sorry to disappoint.

I am gay, but I don't date men. I wish you all the luck in the world in your journey of self-discovery, Jack. Don't fight your fantasies. Accept them. Accept yourself.

If you ever need a shoulder to cry on, know that I'm here for you buddy.

Thanks for reaching out, and thanks for listening to my story. I hope it helps you become what you really want to be.

[jack sommerset]

So you are handicapped?

[Winehole23]

Face it, Jack. You're obsessed with gays and gay sex. It's like every other post with you.

[Winehole23]

Time to step up to the mike.

iOLZsgE40oQ

[jack sommerset]

you're handicapped?

[Winehole23]

Able bodied in every way. Does that turn you on?

[Winehole23]

Maybe you prefer the hot and curly stump love?

[Winehole23]

That's nothing to be ashamed of. Until you're at peace with yourself, you can't give yourself fully to another.

[ChumpDumper]

You'd have a point if it had been torture.All the case law you and Bybee and Yoo pretty much confirms it.
And, besides, doesn't the world already know what's been done? Into beating dead horses to further trash our country, are you?Everyone already knew about this threads topic as well.

Why do you hate America?

[Winehole23]

Just let it go and let it be. Let you be. You're in a safe place now. The only person you're fooling is yourself.

http://www.lala.com/song/360569489076388255

Song number ten.

[Wild Cobra]

Release the fucking photo's. Its a story not releasing them and not given a reason for it. Throw in 300,000 bones to pay for this shit,not telling NYC they were doing this and scaring people half to death makes NO sense! This guy is a douche bag. I have a feeling the the photos are a bust.
I will now say that I firmly believe this.

There are no photo's to release.

Obama wanted to see the WTC site, so he had the bird fly over. Realizing how stupid it was, they are now lying to us.

I will retain this position unless valid photos are released, and someone can authenticate the negatives. No photoshopping please.

Where did they say Obama was when this happened...

To my knowledge, they didn't!

[jack sommerset]

I will now say that I firmly believe this.

There are no photo's to release.

Obama wanted to see the WTC site, so he had the bird fly over. Realizing how stupid it was, they are now lying to us.

I will retain this position unless valid photos are released, and someone can authenticate the negatives. No photoshopping please.

Where did they say Obama was when this happened...

To my knowledge, they didn't!

Its such a simple story. Obviously they should show the pics. Keep this BS in the news and noone talks about the trillion dollars Obama spent. It's SICK.

[ChumpDumper]

I will now say that I firmly believe this.

There are no photo's to release.

Obama wanted to see the WTC site, so he had the bird fly over. Realizing how stupid it was, they are now lying to us.

I will retain this position unless valid photos are released, and someone can authenticate the negatives. No photoshopping please.

Where did they say Obama was when this happened...

To my knowledge, they didn't!Obama was giving a 40-minute speech at the National Academy of Sciences in Washington DC which started at 9:12 AM that day according to the transcript. The flyover happened shortly after 10 AM from what I have read.

Even the New York Post said he wasn't on the plane.

[Wild Cobra]

Obama was giving a 40-minute speech at the National Academy of Sciences in Washington DC which started at 9:12 AM that day according to the transcript. The flyover happened shortly after 10 AM from what I have read.

Even the New York Post said he wasn't on the plane.
Fine. I find it rather disturbing that the story they gave is not supported with the alleged photos. Everyone should be concerned. What is the truth of the matter?

[Winehole23]

Fine. I find it rather disturbing that the story they gave is not supported with the alleged photos. Everyone should be concerned. What is the truth of the matter?Someone wanted a picture of AF One against the NYC skyline. Local officials were notified, but pressured to keep silent about it. The plane flew low with a fighter escort, so people freaked out a little.

It was a bad idea. It was expensive. It was embarrassing. It was a bit scary for the New Yorkers who saw it. Obama apologized for it.

The photos will not be released, since they memorialize a foolish boner.

What do you think the truth is WC?

[DarrinS]

You know what? If they released them, everyone would just see a photo of a fucking plane and this thread wouldn't exist. NOT releasing them makes it a story. I don't see what the BFD is about these photos. Just release them and no one will care about this in a week or two.

[ElNono]

Releasing the pictures will automatically produce a 30 minute segment in Fox News titled "$300,000 for this?" followed by interviews with angry New Yorkers while overlapping said pictures on the screen.

They decided to end this whole issue after they apologized for it. Fine by me.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You know what? If they released them, everyone would just see a photo of a fucking plane and this thread wouldn't exist.

if Obama knew a thread was going to be created about it on ST.com, he would have surely released the photos immediately

[DarrinS]

if Obama knew a thread was going to be created about it on ST.com, he would have surely released the photos immediately

good one

[Alex Jones]

Time to step up to the mike.

iOLZsgE40oQ

I can't believe I actually watched that entire video! :lmao

[jack sommerset]

I can't believe I actually watched that entire video! :lmao

:lol

[911]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/obama-1.jpg

[mouse]

Even though the government would not admit Air force one flew over NYC they did release these five frames.










http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/nyc-plane.gif

[MannyIsGod]

This will all blow over as soon as something like Britney Spears snatch comes along.

[Winehole23]

While Washington burns, SpursTalk fiddles.

[ChumpDumper]

Fine. I find it rather disturbing that the story they gave is not supported with the alleged photos. Everyone should be concerned. What is the truth of the matter?Why is it so disturbing?

Why should everyone be concerned?

Now that your pet theory has been thoroughly disproved, what do you think is the truth of the matter?

[Wild Cobra]

Someone wanted a picture of AF One against the NYC skyline. Local officials were notified, but pressured to keep silent about it. The plane flew low with a fighter escort, so people freaked out a little.

It was a bad idea. It was expensive. It was embarrassing. It was a bit scary for the New Yorkers who saw it. Obama apologized for it.

The photos will not be released, since they memorialize a foolish boner.

What do you think the truth is WC?
I don't really know what the truth is. I just don't believe their story. By withholding the photos, they are creating a controversy. The photos would show that is what they were doing, even as stupid as it was. Without them, people will wonder forever.

[ChumpDumper]

What would the photos possibly show that isn't already known?

Everyone knows exactly where the planes were already.

[Barry O'Bama]

I can't believe people want to see the pictures. Who can I throw under the bus to get this pain overwith ahh the Bush administration? Or I can say this was a scheduled shot planned when I was like 4 months old I don't think I've said that before.

[clambake]

why can't you be even slightly entertaining.

[ElNono]

I don't really know what the truth is. I just don't believe their story. By withholding the photos, they are creating a controversy. The photos would show that is what they were doing, even as stupid as it was. Without them, people will wonder forever.

Ehhh... If not for this thread, I probably would have forgotten about the whole thing already.

[ChumpDumper]

No shit. What does WC think could possibly be an alternative explanation?

[JoeChalupa]

One more nail in the coffin. He will go down as one of the worse presidents in history.

Leave GWB alone and move on!!

[Nbadan]

No shit. What does WC think could possibly be an alternative explanation?

Missile?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't really know what the truth is. I just don't believe their story. By withholding the photos, they are creating a controversy. The photos would show that is what they were doing, even as stupid as it was. Without them, people will wonder forever.

Typical conservative MO.. clamor for the explanation ..and the when the explanation comes you say you don't believe it... Obama cant win with you dead enders..

[George Gervin's Afro]

No shit. What does WC think could possibly be an alternative explanation?

Chump, conservatives want his reasoning so then they can turn arounnd and then not believe him..it easy being a conservative.

[Wild Cobra]

Typical conservative MO.. clamor for the explanation ..and the when the explanation comes you say you don't believe it... Obama cant win with you dead enders..Show me the money...

[ChumpDumper]

What does that even mean?

[FromWayDowntown]

Missile?

Thermite. No doubt.

[DarrinS]

I guess the Obama White House is in the mood for transparency again.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/06/white-house-release-photo-new-york-flyover/




The White House plans to soon release a photo from the controversial Air Force One-style flyover of Manhattan last week, despite claiming earlier that there was no need to release any official images from the incident.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters Wednesday that an internal report will probably be completed this week.

"We'll release its findings and release a photo," he said.

That was after Gibbs indicated Tuesday that the White House would not release any images.

"I've watched CNN," he said at the time, noting the considerable coverage from amateur footage. "I didn't notice a lack of archival material from that flight."

The flyover triggered panic among New Yorkers as well as the internal review by the Obama administration.

Officials last week sent an Air Force One backup plane to fly over lower Manhattan to capture the presidential plane with the Statue of Liberty in the background. The public was not notified in advance that there should be no cause for alarm.

Some New Yorkers were reminded of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, sparking chaos as employees evacuated office buildings and inundated emergency call centers to raise the alarm.

President Obama soon after denounced the photo-op, which cost $328,835, calling it "a mistake."

White House Military Office Director Louis Caldera accepted responsibility and apologized for allowing the exercise

[ChumpDumper]

Now we'll get to the bottom of this!

[JoeChalupa]

White House Military Office Director Louis Caldera has resigned amid controversy over a low-altitude flyover of New York.

Per CNN.

[Homeland Security]

The purpose of the Manhattan flyover was a subtle reenactment of 9/11. This was to give a clandestine message to Muslim terrorists that he has solidarity with their cause, and will use the power of the Presidency to carry it out.

[Winehole23]

In other words, it was essentially an islamofascist flyover,

[Winehole23]

Don't hand any sharp thing to Hi-skool Security, folks. He may be a danger to himself.

[JoeChalupa]

Don't hand any sharp thing to Hi-skool Security, folks. He may be a danger to himself.

:lmao

[Nbadan]

Original..

http://static.cbslocal.com/station/wcbs/img/flyover.jpg

I see the real problem now Yoni was after...

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4474/af1moongnome.jpg

[SnakeBoy]

In other words, it was essentially an islamofascist flyover,

Probably more of an islamosocialistmarxist flyover.

[FaithInOne]

Santa was behind this shit!?

Sonofabitch.

[mouse]

Yonnie the new Emo?

[Yonivore]

Tantalizing...this might not be over yet...

Air Force sources have confirmed that the F-16s that escorted the VC-25 over Manhattan are assigned to the Alabama Air National Guard, not the D.C. Guard as the AP (and other media outlets) originally reported. The Alabama guard has painted some of its Vipers in a distinctive "red tail" paint scheme, honoring the legendary Tuskegee Airmen of World War II. One of the fighters observed over Manhattan had the same markings.

George Lucas, a big contributor to the Obama campaign, is doing a movie on the Tuskegee airmen, and it could be that this escort "training mission" was a tax payer $300,000+ payback. How fitting it would be to show the Tuskegee's descendants flying such an important modern day escort mission as a movie closer.

Can't wait to see if more detail comes out on this...

[Winehole23]

Could be a harmless piggyback. If true, looks bad.

[Winehole23]

My vote still goes to the burger thread.

[jman3000]

What a shitty picture. Total waste of film.

Nothing says majestic than a picture of an Air Force One backup, the Statue of Liberty, and the serene beauty of New Jersey.

If it had been taken from a different angle you'd at least be able to see Manhattan.. but New Jersey? Seriously?

Fuck they could have photoshopped a pic of AF1 flying over the SoL and they could have made it look good... for about 100 dollars of software and a few hours of manpower.

[jman3000]

If what Yonivore says is true(he probably got the conspiracy theory from some right wing blog... but even the Sun shines on an old dogs old crusty balls once in a while), I'd be pissed. What an irresponsible act on behalf of all those involved.

I'm not content with just Caldera losing his job. I really do think that all those that were involved and didn't see fit to communicate this should also lose their jobs.

[ChumpDumper]

There would probably have been a much bigger film crew had Lucas been involved.

Besides -- Lucas would spend $3 million to make a better scene in CGI.

[Yonivore]

If what Yonivore says is true(he probably got the conspiracy theory from some right wing blog... but even the Sun shines on an old dogs old crusty balls once in a while), I'd be pissed. What an irresponsible act on behalf of all those involved.

I'm not content with just Caldera losing his job. I really do think that all those that were involved and didn't see fit to communicate this should also lose their jobs.
Actually, the information comes from two sources.

The first, a non-partisan military blog called "In From The Cold" spent considerable time on the Air Force 1 flyby but, beyond calling it irresponsible, his interest was more along the lines of the logistics required to pull it off.

He was the one that noticed the tail fin colors and how they identified the F-16 as being from the group in Alabama. He then went on to describe how, logistically, those F-16 ended up in New York and how the prospect of their involvement, alone, drove the price of the sortee above the $330,000 dollars already quoted...what with in-flight refueling (at least twice) for a non-stop, round trip flight for the F-16's.

The other facts were put together by a right-wing blog. But, the facts are...

1) The airwing from Alabama was involved.

2) Lucas is shooting a film about them

3) Lucas is a big donor to Obama

Like I said, if true...this makes Obama a big fucking liar.

I'm willing to wait until someone ferrets it out. It would explain the reluctance to release the "publicity" photos....and, then, releasing one which, without some serious photoshopping, isn't anywhere near publicity ready.

Here's a conspiracy theory for you...

Lucas was on AF-1 as payback for his donation. He was shooting footage of the Tuskegee planes from AF-1 which is why they were called for the escort.

I have no idea if that is true but, we can only hope The One fucked up that bad.

[ChumpDumper]

I have no idea if that is true but, we can only hope The One fucked up that bad.Keep praying for the worst, yoni.

You still need to explain why you hate America so much.

[Yonivore]

Keep praying for the worst, yoni.

You still need to explain why you hate America so much.
Oh, that's nowhere near the worst. But, just maybe if he fucks up bad enough on something this insignificant, his blind worshippers will start to have the scales removed from their eyes.

[ChumpDumper]

Keep praying for the worst, yoni. Maybe God hates America as much as you do.

[Yonivore]

Keep praying for the worst, yoni. Maybe God hates America as much as you do.
Oh, I pray, alright...

Obama doing somthing stupid isn't the worst that could happen.

[Winehole23]

I have no idea if that is true but, we can only hope The One fucked up that bad. Based on the mere rumor, Yoni hopes this will be the ruination of Obama.

Why can't you just wait til 2012, Yoni, instead of wishing ill on the country?

[ChumpDumper]

His hatred for America is what is important to him.

[Winehole23]

Everybody will have soon have the chance to vote on Obama's unprecedentedly crappy presidency.

[Yonivore]

Everybody will have soon have the chance to vote on Obama's unprecedentedly crappy presidency.
Not soon enough.

[Winehole23]

Don't be such a baby. Four years isn't that long.

[Yonivore]

Don't be such a baby. Four years isn't that long.
The first hundred days have been a bitch.

Unemployment at 25-year highs...

Economy in the tank...

Biggest deficit in, well, forever...

Biggest debt in, also, forever...

Terrorizing New Yorkers by buzzing Ground Zero with a 747...

Apologizing to our enemies...

Schmoozing with our enemies...even as they continue to trash talk the U. S....

Bowing to the Muslims...

Appointing secretaries uniquely unqualified to serve in the capacities they've been called for...

Yeah, this guys on a roll.

[Winehole23]

USA all the way, baby. Show a little spirit, Yoni. Don't you believe in America anymore?

[Yonivore]

USA all the way, baby. Show a little spirit, Yoni. Don't you believe in America anymore?
Didn't I hear, for 8 years, that dissent was the highest form of Patriotism?

This administration is a disaster. One from which we may struggle to recover but, it is because of the indomitable American Spirit, that I have hope.

[ChumpDumper]

The last administration was much worse. The current one looks great by comparison.

[Winehole23]

Didn't I hear, for 8 years, that dissent was the highest form of Patriotism?The banner should read "Descent", but this is a quibble.


This administration is a disaster. One from which we may struggle to recover but, it is because of the indomitable American Spirit, that I have hopeWhew. I thought you were a nihilist for a second there.

[Yonivore]

The last administration was much worse. The current one looks great by comparison.
The last administration kept your ass safe.

This administration is already seeing our enemies and former enemies starting to flex their muscles.

Russia warns foes in Soviet-style show of might (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.2bd8acd3958f3504b0e198ea61d1c3d 0.a1&show_article=1)

Of course, Obama responds to cutting the budget on missile defense and port defense.

Way to go!

[ChumpDumper]

The last administration kept your ass safe.They overreacted to 9/11 after they ignored terrorism completely before 9/11. Two wrongs like that make for the worst administration.

Way to go indeed.

[Yonivore]

They overreacted to 9/11...
No, they didn't.


...after they ignored terrorism completely before 9/11.
Didn't do that either.

[ChumpDumper]

No, they didn't.Right -- they're still translating the documents.

Yoni's quest for the WMDs goes on!



Didn't do that either.How many cabinet meetings regarding terror did the bush administration have before 9/11?

[Yonivore]

Right -- they're still translating the documents.

Yoni's quest for the WMDs goes on!
Again, not the only reason we invaded Iraq. Besides, it made a nice magnet for al Qaeda to pour into.


How many cabinet meetings regarding terror did the bush administration have before 9/11?
The Bush administration spent the first months of its administration increasing funding to anti-terrorist activities and crafting a plan that was more aggressive than had been the previous administrations.

I'm not sure what you expected him to do between January 21 and September 11. Do tell.

[Winehole23]

Again, not the only reason we invaded Iraq. Besides, it made a nice magnet for al Qaeda to pour into.Ingenious! How did that work out?


The Bush administration spent the first months of its administration increasing funding to anti-terrorist activities and crafting a plan that was more aggressive than had been the previous administrations.Revisionist history. Can you describe the meetings, Yoni, or did you just make that up?


I'm not sure what you expected him to do between January 21 and September 11.Maybe listen to Richard Clarke, who wanted to focus more on Al Qaeda. Missed opportunity there, but hindsight is 20/20.

[Yonivore]

Ingenious! How did that work out?
Killed a whole hell of a lot of 'em.

Besides, al Qaeda declared Iraq a central front in their war against us.

Iraq's Centrality To The War Against Al-Qaeda (http://www.defenddemocracy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25410&Itemid=380)

I'd say it worked out pretty good if Obama doesn't fuck it up.


Revisionist history. Can you describe the meetings, Yoni, or did you just make that up?
9-11 Commission detailed the activities of the Bush administration leading up to September 11.

While the Bush administration did not take any military or covert actions against al-Qaeda in its first months, generally because the closest "catalyst event," the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole had been too far in the past with the previous administration having done nothing; but, the Bush administration did take some political actions directed against al-Qaeda.

Bush wrote Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf about pressuring the Taliban about al-Qaeda in February 2001 and again in August 2001.

Secretary of State Rice also discussed al-Qaeda with Pakistan's foreign minister in June 2001.

State Department officials also met with a visiting Taliban official in Washington DC March 2001. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said on March 19, 2001 that State Department officials had stressed that the Taliban must give Bin Laden over for trial and must close terrorist camps.

Administration officials also took precautionary measures in the summer of 2001 in response to threat reports indicating possible attacks against U.S. interests overseas. The government reacted with steps such as closing one embassy and raising the force protection levels for U.S. troops in six countries to the highest level.

More broadly, the Bush administration did propose an increase in the federal government's counterterrorism budget, just as the Clinton administration had done in each of the immediately preceding years. The federal government spent $6.06 billion to combat terrorism in FY1998, $8.32 billion in FY1999, and $8.69 billion in FY2000 and it enacted $9.70 billion for FY2001. Even before the 9/11 attacks, the Bush administration requested $10.33 billion to combat terrorism, an increase of 6.5 percent above the prior year's enacted amount and a 70 percent increase from FY1998.


Maybe listen to Richard Clarke, who wanted to focus more on Al Qaeda. Missed opportunity there, but hindsight is 20/20.
From what I remember, the 9-11 Commission merely said the administration chose not to use Clarke's ideas. That doesn't mean they weren't planning on another track and, indeed, that is what is reported.

According to then National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice's testimony before the 9/11 Commission, Bush's position was that he was "tired of swatting at flies" and wanted to take the offense against al-Qaeda. The 9/11 Commission reported that Bush told them that he wanted a long-term policy.

Such a strategy was developed over the months and weeks before September 11. Deputies to Cabinet-level officials met in full committee on April 30, 2001 to discuss al-Qaeda and terrorism, and Cabinet-level officials approved a draft directive in their first Principals Committee meeting on al-Qaeda on September 4. Deputies then met again on September 10 to finalize a three-year plan that would first pressure the Taliban to oust Bin Laden and ultimately use covert action to overthrow the Taliban if necessary.

I'm not sure what else you would have had the administration do...and, I'm sure we're not aware of everything that was being done.

[ChumpDumper]

Again, not the only reason we invaded Iraq. Besides, it made a nice magnet for al Qaeda to pour into.Right, we completely eliminated them and captured Osama!


The Bush administration spent the first months of its administration increasing funding to anti-terrorist activities and crafting a plan that was more aggressive than had been the previous administrations.[/quotre]:lol

Too bad they went with the plan the CIA already had on the shelf. The Pentagon had no plan regarding Afghanistan. None.

How many cabinet meetings was that again? What was the plan?

[quote]I'm not sure what you expected him to do between January 21 and September 11. Do tell.Please. Following the Clarke recommendations like they did immediately after 9/11 would have been a good start. Breaking the logjam between the military and CIA regarding maintenance and weaponization of the Predator. Keeping the counterterrorism office at the cabinet level. Actually comprehending the phrase "Bin Laden determined to Strike in US" when it is presented to you in a daily intelligence briefing.

You know -- the little things.

[ChumpDumper]

So, one cabinet meeting?

That's it?

I expected more than that, since you claimed they considered it such a high priority.

[Yonivore]

So, one cabinet meeting?

That's it?

I expected more than that, since you claimed they considered it such a high priority.
Why do you equate cabinet meetings with priority? Oh yeah, you're from the Bill Clinton symbolism over substance school of thought.

How many cabinet meetings has Obama had on the economy? That's right, he can't get a cabinet assembled and is doing this with Czars.

[Yonivore]

Right, we completely eliminated them and captured Osama!

[quote]The Bush administration spent the first months of its administration increasing funding to anti-terrorist activities and crafting a plan that was more aggressive than had been the previous administrations.[/quotre]:lol

Too bad they went with the plan the CIA already had on the shelf. The Pentagon had no plan regarding Afghanistan. None.

How many cabinet meetings was that again? What was the plan?

Please. Following the Clarke recommendations like they did immediately after 9/11 would have been a good start. Breaking the logjam between the military and CIA regarding maintenance and weaponization of the Predator. Keeping the counterterrorism office at the cabinet level. Actually comprehending the phrase "Bin Laden determined to Strike in US" when it is presented to you in a daily intelligence briefing.

You know -- the little things.
Hindsight is 20/20. Fact remains Bush made it more of a priority than did Clinton.

And, he admits we were caught flatfooted.

Clarke is a lying asshole. He was quite impressed with the Bush administration until it became politically unpopular and he developed an agenda of his own.

[ChumpDumper]

Why do you equate cabinet meetings with priority?Why do you think it doesn't equate?

[ChumpDumper]

Fact remains Bush made it more of a priority than did Clinton.In what way did he make it more of a priority?

Be specific in your comparisons.


Clarke is a lying asshole. He was quite impressed with the Bush administration until it became politically unpopular and he developed an agenda of his own.What are you saying he lied about?

[Yonivore]

Transcript: Clarke Praises Bush Team in '02 (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115085,00.html)


WASHINGTON — The following transcript documents a background briefing in early August 2002 by President Bush's former counterterrorism coordinator Richard A. Clarke to a handful of reporters, including Fox News' Jim Angle. In the conversation, cleared by the White House on Wednesday for distribution, Clarke describes the handover of intelligence from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration and the latter's decision to revise the U.S. approach to Al Qaeda. Clarke was named special adviser to the president for cyberspace security in October 2001. He resigned from his post in January 2003.

RICHARD CLARKE: Actually, I've got about seven points, let me just go through them quickly. Um, the first point, I think the overall point is, there was no plan on Al Qaeda that was passed from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration.

Second point is that the Clinton administration had a strategy in place, effectively dating from 1998. And there were a number of issues on the table since 1998. And they remained on the table when that administration went out of office — issues like aiding the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, changing our Pakistan policy -- uh, changing our policy toward Uzbekistan. And in January 2001, the incoming Bush administration was briefed on the existing strategy. They were also briefed on these series of issues that had not been decided on in a couple of years.

And the third point is the Bush administration decided then, you know, in late January, to do two things. One, vigorously pursue the existing policy, including all of the lethal covert action findings, which we've now made public to some extent.

And the point is, while this big review was going on, there were still in effect, the lethal findings were still in effect. The second thing the administration decided to do is to initiate a process to look at those issues which had been on the table for a couple of years and get them decided.

So, point five, that process which was initiated in the first week in February, uh, decided in principle, uh in the spring to add to the existing Clinton strategy and to increase CIA resources, for example, for covert action, five-fold, to go after Al Qaeda.

The sixth point, the newly-appointed deputies — and you had to remember, the deputies didn't get into office until late March, early April. The deputies then tasked the development of the implementation details, uh, of these new decisions that they were endorsing, and sending out to the principals.

Over the course of the summer — last point — they developed implementation details, the principals met at the end of the summer, approved them in their first meeting, changed the strategy by authorizing the increase in funding five-fold, changing the policy on Pakistan, changing the policy on Uzbekistan, changing the policy on the Northern Alliance assistance.

And then changed the strategy from one of rollback with Al Qaeda over the course of five years, which it had been, to a new strategy that called for the rapid elimination of Al Qaeda. That is in fact the timeline.

QUESTION: When was that presented to the president?

CLARKE: Well, the president was briefed throughout this process.

QUESTION: But when was the final September 4 document? (interrupted) Was that presented to the president?

CLARKE: The document went to the president on September 10, I think.

QUESTION: What is your response to the suggestion in the [Aug. 12, 2002] Time [magazine] article that the Bush administration was unwilling to take on board the suggestions made in the Clinton administration because of animus against the — general animus against the foreign policy?

CLARKE: I think if there was a general animus that clouded their vision, they might not have kept the same guy dealing with terrorism issue. This is the one issue where the National Security Council leadership decided continuity was important and kept the same guy around, the same team in place. That doesn't sound like animus against uh the previous team to me.

JIM ANGLE: You're saying that the Bush administration did not stop anything that the Clinton administration was doing while it was making these decisions, and by the end of the summer had increased money for covert action five-fold. Is that correct?

CLARKE: All of that's correct.

ANGLE: OK.

QUESTION: Are you saying now that there was not only a plan per se, presented by the transition team, but that it was nothing proactive that they had suggested?

CLARKE: Well, what I'm saying is, there are two things presented. One, what the existing strategy had been. And two, a series of issues — like aiding the Northern Alliance, changing Pakistan policy, changing Uzbek policy — that they had been unable to come to um, any new conclusions, um, from '98 on.

QUESTION: Was all of that from '98 on or was some of it ...

CLARKE: All of those issues were on the table from '98 on.

ANGLE: When in '98 were those presented?

CLARKE: In October of '98.

QUESTION: In response to the Embassy bombing?

CLARKE: Right, which was in September.

QUESTION: Were all of those issues part of alleged plan that was late December and the Clinton team decided not to pursue because it was too close to ...

CLARKE: There was never a plan, Andrea. What there was was these two things: One, a description of the existing strategy, which included a description of the threat. And two, those things which had been looked at over the course of two years, and which were still on the table.

QUESTION: So there was nothing that developed, no documents or no new plan of any sort?

CLARKE: There was no new plan.

QUESTION: No new strategy — I mean, I don't want to get into a semantics ...

CLARKE: Plan, strategy — there was no, nothing new.

QUESTION: 'Til late December, developing ...

CLARKE: What happened at the end of December was that the Clinton administration NSC principals committee met and once again looked at the strategy, and once again looked at the issues that they had brought, decided in the past to add to the strategy. But they did not at that point make any recommendations.

QUESTIONS: Had those issues evolved at all from October of '98 'til December of 2000?

CLARKE: Had they evolved? Um, not appreciably.

ANGLE: What was the problem? Why was it so difficult for the Clinton administration to make decisions on those issues?

CLARKE: Because they were tough issues. You know, take, for example, aiding the Northern Alliance. Um, people in the Northern Alliance had a, sort of bad track record. There were questions about the government, there were questions about drug-running, there was questions about whether or not in fact they would use the additional aid to go after Al Qaeda or not. Uh, and how would you stage a major new push in Uzbekistan or somebody else or Pakistan to cooperate?

One of the big problems was that Pakistan at the time was aiding the other side, was aiding the Taliban. And so, this would put, if we started aiding the Northern Alliance against the Taliban, this would have put us directly in opposition to the Pakistani government. These are not easy decisions.

ANGLE: And none of that really changed until we were attacked and then it was ...

CLARKE: No, that's not true. In the spring, the Bush administration changed — began to change Pakistani policy, um, by a dialogue that said we would be willing to lift sanctions. So we began to offer carrots, which made it possible for the Pakistanis, I think, to begin to realize that they could go down another path, which was to join us and to break away from the Taliban. So that's really how it started.

QUESTION: Had the Clinton administration in any of its work on this issue, in any of the findings or anything else, prepared for a call for the use of ground forces, special operations forces in any way? What did the Bush administration do with that if they had?

CLARKE: There was never a plan in the Clinton administration to use ground forces. The military was asked at a couple of points in the Clinton administration to think about it. Um, and they always came back and said it was not a good idea. There was never a plan to do that.

(Break in briefing details as reporters and Clarke go back and forth on how to source quotes from this backgrounder.)

ANGLE: So, just to finish up if we could then, so what you're saying is that there was no — one, there was no plan; two, there was no delay; and that actually the first changes since October of '98 were made in the spring months just after the administration came into office?

CLARKE: You got it. That's right.

QUESTION: It was not put into an action plan until September 4, signed off by the principals?

CLARKE: That's right.

QUESTION: I want to add though, that NSPD — the actual work on it began in early April.

CLARKE: There was a lot of in the first three NSPDs that were being worked in parallel.

ANGLE: Now the five-fold increase for the money in covert operations against Al Qaeda — did that actually go into effect when it was decided or was that a decision that happened in the next budget year or something?

CLARKE: Well, it was gonna go into effect in October, which was the next budget year, so it was a month away.

QUESTION: That actually got into the intelligence budget?

CLARKE: Yes it did.

QUESTION: Just to clarify, did that come up in April or later?

CLARKE: No, it came up in April and it was approved in principle and then went through the summer. And you know, the other thing to bear in mind is the shift from the rollback strategy to the elimination strategy. When President Bush told us in March to stop swatting at flies and just solve this problem, then that was the strategic direction that changed the NSPD from one of rollback to one of elimination.

QUESTION: Well can you clarify something? I've been told that he gave that direction at the end of May. Is that not correct?

CLARKE: No, it was March.

QUESTION: The elimination of Al Qaeda, get back to ground troops — now we haven't completely done that even with a substantial number of ground troops in Afghanistan. Was there, was the Bush administration contemplating without the provocation of September 11th moving troops into Afghanistan prior to that to go after Al Qaeda?

CLARKE: I can not try to speculate on that point. I don't know what we would have done.

QUESTION: In your judgment, is it possible to eliminate Al Qaeda without putting troops on the ground?

CLARKE: Uh, yeah, I think it was. I think it was. If we'd had Pakistani, Uzbek and Northern Alliance assistance.

[Yonivore]

Why do you think it doesn't equate?
Because they had already assembled a team to develop the counterterrorism plan. What would more cabinet meetings have done?

[Yonivore]

In what way did he make it more of a priority?

Be specific in your comparisons.
More money, more planning, more aggressive.


What are you saying he lied about?
Read the transcript.

[ChumpDumper]

Clarke was still working for Bush back then, so I fully accept your accusation that he lied for them.

Rummy said he knew where the WMDs were too.

[ChumpDumper]

More money, more planning, more aggressive.I said be specific in your comparison.

That was nothing.

[Yonivore]

I said be specific in your comparison.

That was nothing.
Richard Clarke was fairly specific in that transcript. I'll stand by his words there.

[ChumpDumper]

Richard Clarke was fairly specific in that transcript.No he was not.

Surely their grand plan must have seen the light of day since then.

What was it?

[Yonivore]

Clarke was still working for Bush back then, so I fully accept your accusation that he lied for them.
He was fairly specific about what was done. I'm betting there are records, probably in the 9-11 Commission report, that support this version of events.

But, nice try.


Rummy said he knew where the WMDs were too.
And, if the world hadn't stalled by insisting one ultimatums and warnings and hearings, they might have still been where there were last known to be.

Exactly where did all the WMD's go UNSCOM knew Iraq had before they were evicted in 1998 but are still unaccounted for? There were tons of them.

Saddam Hussein is responsible for whatever the world believed about his WMD capabilities.

[Yonivore]

No he was not.

Surely their grand plan must have seen the light of day since then.

What was it?
It's probably classified. But, do an FOIA request.

[ChumpDumper]

He was fairly specific about what was done. I'm betting there are records, probably in the 9-11 Commission report, that support this version of events.

But, nice try.Where are the plans?



And, if the world hadn't stalled by insisting one ultimatums and warnings and hearings, they might have still been where there were last known to be.

Exactly where did all the WMD's go UNSCOM knew Iraq had before they were evicted in 1998 but are still unaccounted for? There were tons of them.

Saddam Hussein is responsible for whatever the world believed about his WMD capabilities.Rummy and Cheney said they knew where they were.

They lied.

[ChumpDumper]

It's probably classified.So you don't know of any plan.

[Yonivore]

So you don't know of any plan.
You asked for specifics of what was done during the initial months of the Bush Administration.

The transcript of the Clarke interview was very specific about what what done.

If that doesn't satisfy you -- which, I suspect it was more than adequate since you tried to move the target yet again -- find the plan yourself.

Your first question:



How many cabinet meetings regarding terror did the bush administration have before 9/11?
Answered. Not that the number of cabinet meetings has any relation, whatsoever, to what is being done...but, it was answered.



How many cabinet meetings was that again? What was the plan?
Richard Clarke spelled out the general plan in the transcript.



So, one cabinet meeting?

That's it?

I expected more than that, since you claimed they considered it such a high priority.
If you'd read the transcript you'd see they were doing a lot more than holding one cabinet meeting.



In what way did he make it more of a priority?

Be specific in your comparisons.
Richard Clarke asctually compares the Bush administrations action's to the Clinton administration's actions. And, in doing so, demonstrates how the Bush Administration made it more of a priority.

The Clarke transcript destroys the idea that the Bush administration just sat on its hands and did nothing so, Chump moves the target.



No he was not.

Surely their grand plan must have seen the light of day since then.

What was it?

[ChumpDumper]

You asked for specifics of what was done during the initial months of the Bush Administration.

The transcript of the Clarke interview was very specific about what what done.

If that doesn't satisfy you -- which, I suspect it was more than adequate since you tried to move the target yet again -- find the plan yourself.There wasn't one. That's the point.


Your first question:


Answered. Not that the number of cabinet meetings has any relation, whatsoever, to what is being done...but, it was answered.Not by you directly. You tried to hide it in a quote. Hell, you don't even know if one is the actual number. Nice try though.



Richard Clarke spelled out the general plan in the transcript.


If you'd read the transcript you'd see they were doing a lot more than holding one cabinet meeting.So what was actually done? Seems like those decisions could have been made the day after the inauguration had there been any sense of urgency.

Are you saying there was a sense of urgency?



Richard Clarke asctually compares the Bush administrations action's to the Clinton administration's actions. And, in doing so, demonstrates how the Bush Administration made it more of a priority.

The Clarke transcript destroys the idea that the Bush administration just sat on its hands and did nothing so, Chump moves the target.It doesn't do anything, since nothing was actually done.

I asked what they did.

You said they planned to do something at some time.

Wow.

[Yonivore]

There wasn't one. That's the point.

Not by you directly. You tried to hide it in a quote. Hell, you don't even know if one is the actual number. Nice try though.


So what was actually done? Seems like those decisions could have been made the day after the inauguration had there been any sense of urgency.

Are you saying there was a sense of urgency?


It doesn't do anything, since nothing was actually done.

I asked what they did.

You said they planned to do something at some time.

Wow.
Okay, I'll let the Clarke Transcript stand. You keep pissing into the wind, Dumpster.


Um, the first point, I think the overall point is, there was no plan on Al Qaeda that was passed from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration.
What plan could Bush have implemented on inauguration day?


Bush administration decided then, you know, in late January, to do two things. One, vigorously pursue the existing policy, including all of the lethal covert action findings, which we've now made public to some extent.

And the point is, while this big review was going on, there were still in effect, the lethal findings were still in effect. The second thing the administration decided to do is to initiate a process to look at those issues which had been on the table for a couple of years and get them decided.


So, point five, that process which was initiated in the first week in February, uh, decided in principle, uh in the spring to add to the existing Clinton strategy and to increase CIA resources, for example, for covert action, five-fold, to go after Al Qaeda.


The sixth point, the newly-appointed deputies — and you had to remember, the deputies didn't get into office until late March, early April. The deputies then tasked the development of the implementation details, uh, of these new decisions that they were endorsing, and sending out to the principals.

Over the course of the summer — last point — they developed implementation details, the principals met at the end of the summer, approved them in their first meeting, changed the strategy by authorizing the increase in funding five-fold, changing the policy on Pakistan, changing the policy on Uzbekistan, changing the policy on the Northern Alliance assistance.

And then changed the strategy from one of rollback with Al Qaeda over the course of five years, which it had been, to a new strategy that called for the rapid elimination of Al Qaeda. That is in fact the timeline.


The document went to the president on September 10, I think.
Sounds to me like quite a bit went on during the first months of the administration.

[ChumpDumper]

What plan could Bush have implemented on inauguration day?A version of the plan the CIA already had on their books and ready to go on September 11.


Sounds to me like quite a bit went on during the first months of the administration.Doesn't really sound like any of the statements contradict anything Clarke said in his book. The administration diddled about in deputys' meetings over the summer and nothing really happened on the ground in Afghanistan or elsewhere.

What did happen: a document went to Bush on September 10.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[Yonivore]

A version of the plan the CIA already had on their books and ready to go on September 11.
And, what was that plan?

To invade Afghanistan? Tell me; what, in the "off the shelf" CIA plan would have satisfied you in terms of demonstrating the Bush administration had made terrorism a priority.


Doesn't really sound like any of the statements contradict anything Clarke said in his book. The administration diddled about in deputys' meetings over the summer and nothing really happened on the ground in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
How do you know?

According to Clarke, President Bush decided in late January to, "...vigorously pursue the existing policy, including all of the lethal covert action findings, which we've now made public to some extent."

This implies a) that, to some extent, lethal covert action findings were pursued and that, b) if Osama bin Laden had been located (as happened when Clinton was president) he would have been killed or captured (as did not happen during the Clinton administration).


What did happen: a document went to Bush on September 10.

Thanks for the confirmation.
All the while, spending on the covert activities, was increased five-fold; lethal covert activities were vigorously pursued; and, a group of Bush administration officials from cabinet-level down were developing a plan (given to the president on 9/10) to deal with al Qaeda and international terrorism, from that point on.

Where's that plan? I'm betting some of it was implemented but that much of it was made moot by September 11.

Just a guess.

[ChumpDumper]

And, what was that plan?

To invade Afghanistan? Tell me; what, in the "off the shelf" CIA plan would have satisfied you in terms of demonstrating the Bush administration had made terrorism a priority.We didn't invade Afghanistan initially. Of course you're ignorant of that.



How do you know?

According to Clarke, President Bush decided in late January to, "...vigorously pursue the existing policy, including all of the lethal covert action findings, which we've now made public to some extent."

This implies a) that, to some extent, lethal covert action findings were pursued and that, b) if Osama bin Laden had been located (as happened when Clinton was president) he would have been killed or captured (as did not happen during the Clinton administration).All talk. No action. I know you like that kind of thing.



All the while, spending on the covert activities, was increased five-fold; lethal covert activities were vigorously pursued; and, a group of Bush administration officials from cabinet-level down were developing a plan (given to the president on 9/10) to deal with al Qaeda and international terrorism, from that point on.Talk talk talk.

So, just as Clarke said, nothing was really done except talking.

[Yonivore]

We didn't invade Afghanistan initially. Of course you're ignorant of that.
We had troops at the ready?

We began attacking Afghanistan in October of 2001, if I'm not mistaken.


All talk. No action. I know you like that kind of thing.

Talk talk talk.

So, just as Clarke said, nothing was really done except talking.
Actually, that's not what he said at all. That's just your characterization.

I suspect the administration continued with vigorous efforts to find Osama bin Laden and other terrorists and to utilize those lethal directives when and if the opportunities presented themselves.

I don't think you or I were in the chain of notification for whatever took place, in that respect.

[ChumpDumper]

We had troops at the ready?

We began attacking Afghanistan in October of 2001, if I'm not mistaken.We didn't do most of the fighting.

God damn you are an ignorant lying piece of shit.

Go read a damn book.



Actually, that's not what he said at all. That's just your characterization.

I suspect the administration continued with vigorous efforts to find Osama bin Laden and other terrorists and to utilize those lethal directives when and if the opportunities presented themselves.

I don't think you or I were in the chain of notification for whatever took place, in that respect."I suspect."

I don't have to suspect anything.

[Yonivore]

We didn't do most of the fighting.

God damn you are an ignorant lying piece of shit.

Go read a damn book.
And yet, the Taliban was toppled and isolated until Barack came to office.



"I suspect."

I don't have to suspect anything.
So, you were in a position to know everything that was being done?

[Winehole23]

And yet, the Taliban was toppled and isolated until Barack came to office.I guess that's why Bill Frist said we ought to consider negotiating with the Taliban in 2006.:rollin

[Wild Cobra]

I guess that's why Bill Frist said we ought to consider negotiating with the Taliban in 2006.:rollin

That's as practical as negotiating with Anubis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis_(Stargate)#Anubis)!

[Winehole23]

That's as practical as negotiating with Anubis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis_%28Stargate%29#Anubis)!How cute. Are you flirting with LockBeard, WC?

j/k

Thanks for the link.

[911]

The Chump vs Yonnie debate is better than anything on FOX! :tu

[Winehole23]

That's as practical as negotiating with Anubis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis_%28Stargate%29#Anubis)!Bill Frist was the GOP Majority leader in the Senate, 'member?

[ChumpDumper]

And yet, the Taliban was toppled and isolated until Barack came to office.:lmao

Seriously, do you really believe things like that when you say them?

Your ignorance is astounding.

[Winehole23]

I'm beginning to see the virtue in goading Yoni. If you push him enough he'll say literally anything.

[Wild Cobra]

Bill Frist was the GOP Majority leader in the Senate, 'member?
Does that mean you think I should hold him in high regard?

[Yonivore]

I'm beginning to see the virtue in goading Yoni. If you push him enough he'll say literally anything.
Weird way to get your kicks but, hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Winehole23]

Does that mean you think I should hold him in high regard?I just wondered if you remembered, since you're such a whiz at handicapping the verdict of history.

[Winehole23]

Weird way to get your kicks but, hey, whatever floats your boat.Don't flatter yourself.

[E-1101]

Time to step up to the mike.

iOLZsgE40oQ

:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

I just wondered if you remembered, since you're such a whiz at handicapping the verdict of history.
How many times have I said both that I am not a republican, and that they are just the lesser of two evils to me?

[Winehole23]

How many times have I said both that I am not a republican, and that they are just the lesser of two evils to me?Many times.

The alibi doesn't really stick, does it?

[Wild Cobra]

Many times.

The alibi doesn't really stick, does it?
Whatever.

[Blue Jew]

Time to step up to the mike.

iOLZsgE40oQ

/thread

[JoeChalupa]

big deal

[mouse]

The Chump vs Yonnie debate is better than anything on FOX! :tu


To bad it ended..........who won?

:wakeup

[Yonivore]

http://static.cbslocal.com/station/wcbs/img/flyover.jpg
We paid over $300K for this photo?

C'mon, someone's not telling something.

If they went on this mission to get a new publicity shot of Air Force One flying over some national monument, they wouldn't hand the pilot of an F-16 a point and shoot and say, "Get your best shot and try not to run into any buildings doing it, 'kay?"

Then, you have to ask the question, "Why was the EXIF data removed from the photo?"

Finallly, you have to ask the question, "What the hell were two F-16's from an Alabama-based fighter wing doing there? Doesn't Andrews or Dover or some other base -- a whole lot closer -- have fighter jets that could have done the escort?"

Don't'cha?

Why is everyone (on the left and in media) so incurious about this event?

[Yonivore]

To bad it ended..........who won?

:wakeup
Yonivore, hands down.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is everyone (on the left and in media) so incurious about this event?Because there really isn't that much to it.

The only people who will try to keep this alive are braying retards.

[Yonivore]

Because there really isn't that much to it.

The only people who will try to keep this alive are braying retards.
I'm not saying there's anything to it either but, seriously, is that a "photo op" quality picture taken for eventual mass distribution?

I'm curious about what the plane was actually doing there.

You're not?

They delete the EXIF data before releasing the photo, it was obviously taken from a one-seater F-16 by an amateur with a poor quality camera, and the Tuskegee Fliers were the escort.

If there's nothing to it, why won't the White House provide the manifest and the names of personnel involved in the mission?

[ChumpDumper]

Case in point ^

[Yonivore]

Case in point ^
You're either just disagreeing with me because, well, it's me or you're illogically incurious over an incident that reportedly cost taxpayers over $300K (and probably a bit more with the Alabama group involved)

What's your speculation.

Why wasn't there a professional airborne photography platform involved?

Why was the Alabama group there?

Why did the White House release an obvious amateur shot (with the implication it was the picture around which the entire mission was planned)?

Why was the EXIF data deleted?

Why won't they release the manifest for Air Force One that day?

Why won't they release the names of the pilots in the F-16's?

Considering this little stunt created widespread panic in lower Manhatten, I think the American people are due an adequate explanation.

[ChumpDumper]

The only people who will try to keep this alive are braying retards.Please, keep going.

[Yonivore]

Please, keep going.
So, you've got no clue. I get it.

You're ability to reason is so deficient you're unwilling to hazard mere speculation about the nature of why the White House would knowingly risk -- and, indeed cause -- panic for an amateur photograph of Air Force One?

Got it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey, Bush set up a trillion dollar expansion of the federal government.

Oh, look here, a screw up by the new administration led to a flyover of lower Manhattan which dominated the newscycle for 36 hours.

Why can't we talk about the things that really matter?

[ChumpDumper]

I said it was a dumb idea to keep it from the public and whomever is responsible for that should resign.

That's exactly what happened.

Yoin, please tell us all your dark conspiracy theory and join the ranks of Nbadan and Galileo.

[Marcus Bryant]

Who gives a fuck about this? Seriously. Yeah, it was a screwup. Long term damage? None. What's the damage due to letting big bidness know that the next time they screw the pooch, Uncle Sam will be there with a trillion dollar+ check in hand?

[Yonivore]

Hey, Bush set up a trillion dollar expansion of the federal government.

Oh, look here, a screw up by the new administration led to a flyover of lower Manhattan which dominated the newscycle for 36 hours.

Why can't we talk about the things that really matter?
It's Obama that proposed a budget with a $1.8 trillion dollar deficit.

And, we can talk about many things, start another thread.

Why are y'all so afraid to speculate about the nature of the flight?

[Yonivore]

Who gives a fuck about this? Seriously. Yeah, it was a screwup. Long term damage? None. What's the damage due to letting big bidness know that the next time they screw the pooch, Uncle Sam will be there with a trillion dollar+ check in hand?
It's not just a screw up. It doesn't make any sense.

I'm betting there are a few thousand New Yorkers that care.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yawn. He's merely elaborating on what his predecessor left him. You know, one of the greatest POTUSes of all time.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not just a screw up. It doesn't make any sense.

Maybe the Illuminati put him up to it!

[ChumpDumper]

IWhy are y'all so afraid to speculate about the nature of the flight?Here's my take on it:

It was a photo op for AF1 that was handled wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

It's not just a screw up. It doesn't make any sense.What makes sense to you?

Give us your theory or just shut up.

[Marcus Bryant]

Holy Fuck. Bush left anyone who had any glimmer of hope for a smaller federal government ever in the lurch, and all you can think about is this shit?

[Yonivore]

Yawn. He's merely elaborating on what his predecessor left him. You know, one of the greatest POTUSes of all time.
Maybe we do need a thread on budgets...you seem woefully ignorant of how a President proposes one.

So, start the thread and quit trying to stifle legitimate questions about a curious event.

What are you afraid of finding out?

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe we do need a thread on budgets...you seem woefully ignorant of how a President proposes one.

ROFL. Lemme guess, it was those damn big spending congressional Republicans who held the liberal commie Bill Clinton in check who forced GWB to spend all that $ from 2001-06.




So, start the thread and quit trying to stifle legitimate questions about a curious event.

What are you afraid of finding out?

Nothing. Apparently you are afraid of admitting the truth about the great leader Bush.

[Marcus Bryant]

And you're the biggest fucking ignorant douche of the internets.

[Yonivore]

And you're the biggest fucking ignorant douche of the internets.
Who are you, Wanda Sykes?

So, I'm sure you're running around all the silly threads and imploring people to discuss the budget, right?

Obama and the Democrats own every penny of this deficit...except for the original bailout, passed by a Democrat Congress and signed by Bush (for which faulted him then.)

[ChumpDumper]

What makes sense to you?

Give us your theory or just shut up.

[Marcus Bryant]

Who are you, Wanda Sykes?

So, I'm sure you're running around all the silly threads and imploring people to discuss the budget, right?

Obama and the Democrats own every penny of this deficit...except for the original bailout, passed by a Democrat Congress and signed by Bush (for which faulted him then.)

LOL. And passed by 2/3rds of GOP senators and nearly half of GOP representatives. And of course the GOP president and a GOP controlled Congress never collaborated on any deficit spending during the 21st century.

[Yonivore]

I'd like to hear yours or why don't you just shut up.

Last I checked you own neither the internet or this forum.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd like to hear yours or why don't you just shut up.

Last I checked you own neither the internet or this forum.

ROFL. I saw Chump's explanation. What's yours, you fucking blowhard?

[Yonivore]

LOL. And passed by 2/3rds of GOP senators and nearly half of GOP representatives. And of course the GOP president and a GOP controlled Congress never collaborated on any deficit spending during the 21st century.
Deficit was dropping until the Democrats took over.

Seriously dude, start a thread. You seem to need to vent your spleen...go for it.

[Yonivore]

ROFL. I saw Chump's explanation. What's yours, you fucking blowhard?
Chumps explanation didn't address the amateur photography, the Tuskegee fliers, or the reluctance of the White House to release manifests and personnel lists.

[Marcus Bryant]

Deficit was dropping until the Democrats took over.

Seriously dude, start a thread. You seem to need to vent your spleen...go for it.

LOL. Did that include Medicare Part D, which was passed by the great leader Bush? Yeah, that's the very epitome of fiscal discipline.

How about you leave the Republican party so we can start fumigating the stank out?

[ChumpDumper]

I'd like to hear yours or why don't you just shut up.


Here's my take on it:

It was a photo op for AF1 that was handled wrong.

[Marcus Bryant]

Chumps explanation didn't address the amateur photography, the Tuskegee fliers, or the reluctance of the White House to release manifests and personnel lists.

...and it didn't include the Bildeberger Group nor black helicopters. So fucking what?

[Yonivore]

...and it didn't include the Bildeberger Group nor black helicopters. So fucking what?
Well, I was asking for you speculation on those things...look, if you can't conjure up a theory, don't worry about it. I'm not surprised by the limitation.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, I was asking for you speculation on those things...look, if you can't conjure up a theory, don't worry about it. I'm not surprised by the limitation.

A screw up by the White House. It's amusing how all of a sudden that's not a good enough explanation for you.

[Yonivore]

A screw up by the White House. It's amusing how all of a sudden that's not a good enough explanation for you.
What'd they screw up?

Why was the airplane even there?

I mean, they never said the photo session was a flop but, damn, if that's the picture they got...

[Marcus Bryant]

I know, Barack scares you because he's black folk. It's cool, just admit it.

[Marcus Bryant]

What'd they screw up?

Why was the airplane even there?

I mean, they never said the photo session was a flop but, damn, if that's the picture they got...


Maybe the grays ordered Obama to do it.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry. I obliterated this post trying to get a quote.

[Yonivore]

I know, Barack scares you because he's black folk. It's cool, just admit it.
I know you're to intellectually stunted to engage in anything but attacks but, c'mon, try a discussion.

What'd the White House screw up?

[Marcus Bryant]

I know you're to intellectually stunted to engage in anything but attacks but, c'mon, try a discussion.

What'd the White House screw up?


You don't know the first thing about being an intellectual.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, I was asking for you speculation on those things...look, if you can't conjure up a theory, don't worry about it. I'm not surprised by the limitation.I was asking asking you for speculation on those very same things.

Why are you afraid to do it?

Look, if you can't conjure up a theory, don't worry about it. I'm not surprised by the limitation

[ChumpDumper]

I know you're to intellectually stunted to engage in anything but attacks but, c'mon, try a discussion.

What'd the White House screw up?Not letting the local officials tell the public.

As I said before.

Why are you asking questions that have already been answered?

Oh yeah, you're stalling so you don't have to give your own theory.

[Marcus Bryant]

Quick, there's gotta be a blog out there to plagarize.

[Yonivore]

It was a good enough picture for publicity purposes. Hell, the pilot might have pretty good credentials as a photographer. That was a nice shot.
If, as the White House said, this was a mission to update the AF-1 publicity photo, they wouldn't have been photographing from a one-seat F-16 with the pilot as photographer. There are professional aerial photography platforms used for that purpose.


Planes are going to fly anyway. And cost money when they do. Do you somehow dispute this?
Air Force One doesn't fly every day but, when required I don't mind the cost.


AF1 planes fly all over the country. Why would their fighter escort be required to be from the immediate geographical region over which the AF1 plane is currently flying?
Well, to bring the F-16's from Alabama required additional re-fuelings (and cost) jets coming from Andrews wouldn't incur.


Why does anyone need to know those details?
Well, a curious person would want to know -- especially since the official version doesn't fit events.


Now, let's hear your theory.
I don't have one.

But, once more details emerge, I'm sure I'll come up with something.

[Yonivore]

Quick, there's gotta be a blog out there to plagarize.
This is the reason you and Chump end up on ignore. You don't want to debate an issue, you just want to attack people with whom you diagree.

Have fun.

[ChumpDumper]

If, as the White House said, this was a mission to update the AF-1 publicity photo, they wouldn't have been photographing from an F-16. There are professional aerial photography platforms used for that purpose.To substantiate that claim, you would have to prove that suh platforms have been used in every previous photo shoot.

Can you do that?


Air Force One doesn't fly every day but, when required I don't mind the cost.F-16 fly quite a bit as well.



Well, to bring the F-16's from Alabama required additional re-fuelings (and cost) jets coming from Andrews wouldn't incur.If the planes were not already in the area.


Well, a curious person would want to know -- especially since the official version doesn't fit events.There were planes and there is a picture. What exactly is your theory again?



I don't have one.:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:downspin::downspi n: :bking

[Yonivore]

Not letting the local officials tell the public.

As I said before.

Why are you asking questions that have already been answered?

Oh yeah, you're stalling so you don't have to give your own theory.
That was a screw up alright but, it doesn't explain why the mission didn't accomplish it's intended objective of getting a new publicity shot of Air Force One or why it was necessary to bring the Tuskegee fliers up from Alabama.

It also doesn't explain why they removed the EXIF data from the digital image. And, I do have a theory about that...

EXIF data would probably show the photograph was taken with a point and shoot camera. It's obvious the resolution is of a professional quality.

[ChumpDumper]

What is your theory again?

[Yonivore]

To substantiate that claim, you would have to prove that suh platforms have been used in every previous photo shoot.

Can you do that?

F-16 fly quite a bit as well.


If the planes were not already in the area.
All good questions the White House could answer.

There were planes and there is a picture. What exactly is your theory again?

Here's the last one...and, it didn't cause a mass panic.
http://movie_pal.tripod.com/airforceonemtrushmore.jpg

Now compare:

http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/2009/05/large_Air-Force-One-Statue-of-Liberty.jpg

I guess you don't see a difference in quality...

[ChumpDumper]

What is your theory again?

[Yonivore]

What is your theory again?
I don't have a theory...answers to the questions would help though, don't you think?

I don't believe it was a mission to update the publicity photo.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't have a theory.

[Yonivore]

My theory is that this wasn't a mission to update the publicity photo.

Answers to the questions I've posed would go a long way toward solving the mystery.

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously, what else could it possibly have been?

I know you are waiting for some other blog to tell you what to think, but try using your own feeble mind for once.

What else could it possibly have been?

Any refusal to answer on your part will be an admission that you are incapable of independent thought -- even after being spoonfed a blog to tell you what to post up til now.