Philosophy Thursday!

[LnGrrrR]

Hey guys, been reading up on a philosophy book, and figured I'd throw a few questions out there:

1) Favorite philosophers?

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

For me, the answers would be:

1) Descartes, Kant, Sartre (yes, I am an existentialist)

2) Truth.

3) Can't remember the name of it now, but there's a theory that, when certain physical properties are configured correctly, other mental properties may emerge.

Curious/interested to see if anyone will answer this thread :D

[balli]

Can't remember the name of it now, but there's a theory that, when certain physical properties are configured correctly, other mental properties may emerge.
Materialism? Don't know if I subscribe to it, but it scares the shit out of me and I'm constantly trying to find God as a means of escape. I've said it once before on these boards, but the more I learn about physics (without knowing a drop of the math) the more I feel like an atomic machine with the illusion of consciousness. Creepy.

Good thread. Most of my philosophical knowledge comes from novelists. I'll mull it over for a little while.

[LnGrrrR]

Materialism? Don't know if I subscribe to it, but it scares the shit out of me and I'm constantly trying to find God as a means of escape. I've said it once before on these boards, but the more I learn about physics (without knowing a drop of the math) the more I feel like an atomic machine with the illusion of consciousness. Creepy.

Good thread. Most of my philosophical knowledge comes from novelists. I'll mull it over for a little while.

The problem with materialism is that it's tough to disprove the fact that we have ideas, thoughts, feelings etc. Materialism also leads some to the idea that everything we do is caused by some other first cause, going all the way back to the Big Bang.

David Hume is fun to read up on for things like this. http://human-nature.com/rmyoung/papers/pap102h.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)

BTW, I found the theory I was thinking of. It's called emergence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

[InRareForm]

Existentialism FTW "thus spoke zarathustra" is a great book by Nietzche

Philosophy of Cognitive Science FTW also

read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Mind-Cognition-David-Braddon-Mitchell/dp/1405133244


one of my favorite quotes is:

"to exist is one thing, to be perceived is another"

[LnGrrrR]

Existentialism FTW "thus spoke zarathustra" is a great book by Nietzche

Philosophy of Cognitive Science FTW also

read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Mind-Cognition-David-Braddon-Mitchell/dp/1405133244


one of my favorite quotes is:

"to exist is one thing, to be perceived is another"

I love existentialism. It definitely fits my viewpoint. Though I don't like Soren Kirkegaard. That guy is depressing.

I'm sure Angel_Luv would like Occasionalism :D lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occasionalism

[Darrin]

LnGrrrR;3373394, I will attempt to answer your questions.


1) Favorite philosophers?

I don't have any. As animals and without an irreverence towards the human animal we cannot fully know ourselves. There is good and bad philosophy, but there is none that is solely truth. There is none that is complete.

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

What is truth? The only truth we know is obscured fact. We are limited by our perceptions. Our perceptions include internal reactions (emotions) and limitations of external experience as we exist as one unit within a certain range (our senses and knowledge).

The microscope has proven the existence of molecules that make up matter. Before this conclusion, our perceptions told us little about the internal body. Anidotes for diseases are now possible because fact, outside our known perception before that time, has proven our eyes cannot see all that exists in matter. Therefore, we cannot see what truly makes up our known universe without a microscope. We do not know matter's 'building blocks' in its natural state.

My question back to you is can we truly know truth?

Truth is useful. Happiness is contentment. Which is better for society? Truth. Often, truth can lead to more questions, but in the end truth leads to more solutions, even if it destroys someone.

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

We are an animal propelled by emotion and searching. For instance, what questions from early childhood do you ask yourself today?

Some examples:
Am I safe?
Am I good?
Am I normal?
Am I loved? Am I loveable?
Am I smart?

All these are defined early in childhood. What we do with that external stimuli is filter it through our personality. And that is why methods differ and so do our reactions.

We observe, we achieve awareness, and then deal with life and in this we experience the rest of our existence.

[LnGrrrR]

LnGrrrR;3373394, I will attempt to answer your questions.


1) Favorite philosophers?

I don't have any. As animals and without an irreverence towards the human animal we cannot fully know ourselves. There is good and bad philosophy, but there is none that is solely truth. There is none that is complete.

Yes, but surely some philosophers read better to you, don't they? Or their ideas seem more 'correct' than others?

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

What is truth? Truth is obscured fact. We are limited by our perceptions. Our perceptions include internal reactions (emotions) and limitations of external experience as we exist as one unit within a certain range (our senses and knowledge).

The microscope has proven the existence of molecules that make up matter. Before this conclusion, our perceptions told us little about the internal body. Anidotes for diseases are now possible because fact, outside our known perception before that time, has proven our eyes cannot see all that exists in matter. Therefore, we cannot see what truly makes up our known universe without a microscope. We do not know matter's 'building blocks' in its natural state.

My question back to you is can we truly know truth?

Truth is useful. Happiness is contentment. Which is better for society? Truth. Often, truth can lead to more questions, but in the end truth leads to more solutions, even if it destroys someone. [/quote]

My question was not so much what IS truth, but is truth better than happiness? For instance, in the Matrix, the people are happy but do not have the TRUTH about their existence. Which would be most ideal?

I agree with you that truth is ideal, and better than contentment. I'm not sure if everyone else would agree, but I like authenticity.

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

We are an animal propelled by emotion and searching. For instance, what questions from early childhood do you ask yourself today?

Some examples:
Am I safe?
Am I good?
Am I normal?
Am I loved? Am I loveable?
Am I smart?

All these are defined early in childhood. What we do with that external stimuli is filter it through our personality. And that is why methods differ and so do our reactions.

We observe, we achieve awareness, and then deal with life and in this we experience the rest of our existence.[/quote]

Yes, but how do our THOUGHTS get translated into ACTIONS? Is there some being connecting the two a la God? Our are thoughts just byproducts of physical actions but have no causality on the external world? Etc etc.

[Darrin]

We observe, we achieve awareness, and then deal with life and in this we experience the rest of our existence.

Yes, but how do our THOUGHTS get translated into ACTIONS? Is there some being connecting the two a la God? Our are thoughts just byproducts of physical actions but have no causality on the external world? Etc etc.
The only universe that exists is the known. Therefore, it has a profound impact, not on the external world, but how the external world is observed and ultimately how that knowledge is used. For instance, we have concrete that came from an idea and studying the known elements together.

Thoughts come from language. Without that piece of the brain, we never have an idea. The communication tool is the best advancement of our speces. It is our nuiance.

[LnGrrrR]

Thoughts come from language. Without that piece of the brain, we never have an idea. The communication tool is the best advancement of our speces. It is our nuiance.

You're missing my point. How do MENTAL thoughts get translated into PHYSICAL actions? This isn't a question like "How do you juggle?" with a response, "By throwing things in the air". :)

I mean, what process translates MENTAL processes into PHYSICAL ones? How could a non-physical process be able to affect/create a physical one?

[spurster]

1) Favorite philosophers?

At one point, all rational thought was categorized as philosophy, but for 500 years or so, many sciences/disciplines have branched out from philosophy. My opinion is that philosophy is where you search lots of questions and lots of answers until you finally get an question and answer that "works". At that point, you can stop "philosophizing" and start getting results.

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

In the long run, falsehood and ignorance lead to a great deal of unhappiness. If you know the truth, you at least have the chance to properly address problems, but there are no guarantees.

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

This is an example of a philosophical question, where we are searching for questions and answers that will produce results. At this point in time, the working hypothesis is that our brains are like computers and our senses and physical actions are like peripherals. There has been a lot of argument about whether computers can think, but the results of the hypothesis have been spectacular so far.

[Spur-Addict]

You're missing my point. How do MENTAL thoughts get translated into PHYSICAL actions? This isn't a question like "How do you juggle?" with a response, "By throwing things in the air". :)



Ask Descartes

Pineal Gland? :lol

[LnGrrrR]

Ask Descartes

Pineal Gland? :lol

:lol

[Darrin]

You're missing my point. How do MENTAL thoughts get translated into PHYSICAL actions? This isn't a question like "How do you juggle?" with a response, "By throwing things in the air". :)

I mean, what process translates MENTAL processes into PHYSICAL ones? How could a non-physical process be able to affect/create a physical one?

The nervous system. We are the sum of our parts. Ever have a thought without language? A vision maybe?

This is a fundamental flaw in philosophy. It is based on the supposition that our thought process exceeds the physical description of it. The brain is wonderous. This is not a boring answer, just the truth.

[InRareForm]

The nervous system. We are the sum of our parts. Ever have a thought without language? A vision maybe?


this is reductionism. I tend to stay away from reductionism. I like to think that there is something more in the big picture rather than just x and y neurons. that is my opinion tho.

here is a good read on language of thought

http://books.google.com/books?id=ltvSNPW0ziwC&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=philosophy+of+thought+map+theory&source=bl&ots=cmwfj4PQX1&sig=WihLSVT8CCNXDans_7Wgwo_-OSY&hl=en&ei=D78ISo7YKZO6tgPWnsTbCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA172,M1

map theory is one i tend to believe in.

[E20]

I took a Philsophy class last semester and it was fun, we covered a lot of topics, but didn't go indepth, just a basic intro (I forgot most of the philosophers and schools of thought), but it was enjoyalbe thinking pretty deep about some obscure shit that me and my friends still do in some convos, but not with all the fancy wording and concepts, we just try to explain shit with our own reason.

[LnGrrrR]

The nervous system. We are the sum of our parts. Ever have a thought without language? A vision maybe?

This is a fundamental flaw in philosophy. It is based on the supposition that our thought process exceeds the physical description of it. The brain is wonderous. This is not a drole answer, just the truth.

So the Big Bang eventually set into play me typing down these words, without any free will playing into it? :D

[E20]

So the Big Bang eventually set into play me typing down these words, without any free will playing into it? :D

actually god did.

[Winehole23]

Hey guys, been reading up on a philosophy book, and figured I'd throw a few questions out there:

1) I don't really have any faves anymore. I'd say Aristotle and Kant influenced me the most. If I had to say who I had the most fun reading, it'd be Nietzsche and Wittgenstein.

Recently read: Paul Ricoeur, Harry Frankfurt and Ernst Bloch.

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

Speaking just for myself, I'd like to enjoy my life a little bit before I die. The truth will take care of itself.

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

I think the philosophy of mind jargon is inferior to whatever passes for common sense . Excessive materialism is as much a turn off for me as excessive abstractness.

Have you read any Gilbert Ryle, LnGrrrR?

[LnGrrrR]

1) I don't really have any faves anymore. I'd say Aristotle and Kant influenced me the most. If I had to say who I had the most fun reading, it'd be Nietzsche and Wittgenstein.

Recently read: Paul Ricoeur, Harry Frankfurt and Ernst Bloch.

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

Speaking just for myself, I'd like to enjoy my life a little bit before I die. The truth will take care of itself.

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

I think the philosophy of mind jargon is inferior to whatever passes for common sense . Excessive materialism is as much a turn off for me as excessive abstractness.

Have you read any Gilbert Ryle, LnGrrrR?

I love Kant as well. Nietzche is a fun read, but if everyone followed his advice, the world would suck. Nietzche is only useful if you assume the world is full of suckers. Similar to Ayn Rand, except alot more interesting.

Haven't had a chance to read Gilbert Ryle, no. I read, but mostly graphic novels and online articles. If I get the chance to relax, I'm usually playing Lord of the Rings Online. :D

[angel_luv]

1) Favorite philosophers?

I don't have one.


2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?
Truth



(I didn't understand question three and so skipped it.)

[BacktoBasics]

I'll offer some proof disproof.

Sometimes I fart without a predetermined plan to do so.

[koriwhat]

1) Favorite philosophers?

bruce lee & timothy leary & maria sabina

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

both are just illusions as it is. there is no truth and no happiness, there is only ____.

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

our thoughts/actions always translate to physical action if you believe in physical action is believing is real and if action is real and if real is real and....

take some lsd and you'll figure it all out. i can remember not remembering anything and not being anything and not caring because caring was not in my vocab of which i didn't even have when i took a hefty dose(s) of lsd once back when i was 17 yrs old. you know that "void" everyone speaks of in every philosophical book you read, it's attainable. it's hard to explain but when reached you will experience total bliss.

in that trip i experienced so much shit through so many realms it was insane. but in the end i would never ever trade that experience for anything in this world. i don't take lsd anymore and haven't since '98-'99 but i look back on all those experiences as the turning points in what made me who i am today.

it's hard to explain what i wanna say about such experiences. life is a trip is all. live it to the best of your abilities and never look back. search for the void because truly it is bliss, it is heaven and i truly believe that. that's why when people ask me if i am religious i always tell them, "i believe in myself" and that's that. interpret it how you'd like.

[LnGrrrR]

I don't have one.


Truth



(I didn't understand question three and so skipped it.)

You should read up some on philosophy Angel, broaded your horizons. :)

The point of question 3 is... we all have thoughts, correct? But how do thoughts (non-physical) translate into actions (physical)? At what point do these immaterials thoughts/ideas/etc form into physical actions like electrical brain signals?

[Darrin]

So the Big Bang eventually set into play me typing down these words, without any free will playing into it? :D

There is no god.

[LnGrrrR]

There is no god.

... thanks for not responding at all to what I said :D

[Darrin]

this is reductionism. I tend to stay away from reductionism. I like to think that there is something more in the big picture rather than just x and y neurons. that is my opinion tho.

here is a good read on language of thought

http://books.google.com/books?id=ltvSNPW0ziwC&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=philosophy+of+thought+map+theory&source=bl&ots=cmwfj4PQX1&sig=WihLSVT8CCNXDans_7Wgwo_-OSY&hl=en&ei=D78ISo7YKZO6tgPWnsTbCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA172,M1

map theory is one i tend to believe in.

I'm just being introduced to Map Theory in the Spurstalk jungle.

I find the tone of this work to be haughty, but the logic sound. If I understand this, thought is as ubiquitous and perpetual as the map. This is a way to express the theory that personality, experience, and interpretation complete the raw data of new experience. Correct?

Whereas the arabic system in finite in its terms, no matter how incalcuable to the human using the tool, the map is infinite in its conclusions and the data described.

If we can teach a computer to read a map, tell us its favorite part, and its needed information--to visualize, like a bird or a man--they would reach a new level of sentience and we could become god.

Language is a map.

I like this theory (the 2 1/2 pages I read of the 173 available of the 293 contained in this book).

[Darrin]

... thanks for not responding at all to what I said :D

Yes, the locus is creation. Without creation we cannot achieve anything we will to do. However, that is not what I reduce everything to in your argument. It just seems to me that unlocking that certain device and how it works would answer your question in more than an abstraction.

[Darrin]

1) Favorite philosophers?

2) Which is better to have... truth or happiness?

3) How do our thoughts translate to physical action? Do you believe in mind/body duality, or some other mechanism?

Bump this thread; it's thursday.

[Darrin]

I'm starting to read Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. I relate a lot to his writing. I don't have a favorite, but I feel he communicates truth.