U.S.-Israel cooperation fizzles under Obama

[DarrinS]

Jerusalem worried over breakdown of U.S.-Israel cooperation under Obama (http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1083998.html)





Senior officials in Jerusalem expressed concern recently over the sharp decline in the coordination between Israel and the United States on security and state affairs since President Barack Obama's entered the White House and especially since the formation of Israel's new government.

Senior White House officials told their Israeli counterparts that Obama will demand Netanyahu completely suspend construction in the settlements, the officials said.

"Obama's people brief their Israeli counterparts in advance much less about security and Middle East policy activities than the Bush administration used to," the officials said.

In addition, when they do brief Israeli officials, they don't consult with them or coordinate their statements in advance.

This has caused several coordination "malfunctions" between the two states in the past two months, they said.

The last incident was the statement of Assistant U.S. Secretary of State Rose Gottemoeller, calling on Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The statement had not been coordinated with Israeli officials in charge of the nuclear issue and they heard it first from the media.

This followed other equally problematic incidents. The American policy shift toward Syria and opening direct talks with Damascus followed minimal coordination with Israel. For example, Israel was not briefed about senior American diplomats' trip to Damascus, which the U.S. had initiated.

Another incident concerned U.S. envoy for Iranian affairs Dennis Ross' trip to the Gulf states a few days ago for talks on Iran. Israel was briefed on the trip in general details, but no consultations or message-coordination took place before the trip. In addition, Ross did not pass through Israel on his way to the Gulf or back to brief Israel on the talks' outcome.

The American policy toward Iran has remained generally ambiguous as far as Israel is concerned and the administration has not outlined to Israel its plan for a dialogue with Iran in an orderly way. Many of the details Israel learned about this plan were obtained via European channels.

The Israeli officials said the problem also stems from the government change in both states and because clear work procedures between the sides have not been set established.

"This will be one of the most important things Netanyahu will have to settle with Obama," a senior official said.

However, the official said the new administration no longer seems to see Israel as a "special" or "extraordinary" state in the Middle East, with which the U.S. must maintain a different dialogue than with other states.

"The feeling is that the dialogue and coordination with the Arab states and with Europe is today no less important to the U.S. and perhaps more so than with Israel," the official said.

Uzi Arad, the official in the Prime Minister's Office in charge of the liaison with the American administration, maintains ties with various American officials but has not yet forged a direct channel to his counterpart, National Security Advisor General James L. Jones.

Arad is scheduled to go to Washington next week to prepare for Netanyahu's trip.

Arad will outline the first chapters of Israel's new foreign policy, with an emphasis on the Palestinian and Iranian issues, at his meeting with Jones next Tuesday in Washington ahead of Obama's meeting with Netanyahu May 18.

The Americans are expected to tell Arad what Obama expects of his meeting with Netanyahu and coordinate the meeting's agenda, issues and the two men's statements in the news conference after the meeting.

The Americans are also expected to brief Arad on the talks between American and Syrian officials in Damascus on Thursday.

During the Olmert government, Israeli officials kept very close ties with their counterparts in the American administration. This included advanced briefings about almost every American move. The Israelis were even briefed about former president George W. Bush's speeches or former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice's foreign policy statements.

Former prime minister Ehud Olmert used to have regular conversations with Bush while former foreign minister Tzipi Livni kept in touch with Rice. Olmert's chief of staff Yoram Turbowicz and political advisor Shalom Turgeman coordinated foreign policy activities with National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley and his deputy Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ Abrams.

[clambake]

oh, i get it. we should support their expansion at all costs. got it.

[Winehole23]

Reevaluation is a bitch. Are you familiar with Avigdor Lieberman, Darrin?

[Extra Stout]

Obama has a plan here. In July or so 2012, after all his policies have gone to crap, and he's hopelessly behind in the polls to Sarah Palin, it will be revealed to him in his daily prayers to Satan that if he withdraws all American support of Israel, about two-thirds of Republican voters will immediately vanish, and he'll be easily re-elected.

[JoeChalupa]

Sarah doesn't have a prayer.

[Extra Stout]

Sarah doesn't have a prayer.
You're demon-possessed. She is to Esther what John the Baptist was to Elijah. She's Esther and Joan of Arc and Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman all rolled up into one.

[Winehole23]

Amen.

[Extra Stout]

With Bibi back in office, Israel is probably going to press forth with settlement-building in the West Bank with new fervor. That behavior is out-and-out religious irredentism and would not be tolerated in our relations with any other modern state.

There is a lot of Israeli behavior that has to do with their living surrounded by people who want to destroy them for reasons of... religious irredentism. But the settlements? What justifies them other than, "This is our land because the Torah says so" ?

[Winehole23]

Raw power. Plus whatever they already got away with, legally or informally.

[Winehole23]

Plus whatever they will get away with.

[Barry O'Bama]

But the settlements? What justifies them other than, "This is our land because the Torah says so" ?[/quote]


Why all the Anti-Semitisim? I thought the left was full of peace and love.

[JoeChalupa]

But the settlements? What justifies them other than, "This is our land because the Torah says so" ?


Why all the Anti-Semitisim? I thought the left was full of peace and love.[/QUOTE]

Does that mean conservatives are full of peace and love? :lol

[Winehole23]

Why all the Anti-Semitisim? I thought the left was full of peace and love.Put up or shut up, fake Barry. What part of the the thread is antisemitic?

[Homeland Security]

With Bibi back in office, Israel is probably going to press forth with settlement-building in the West Bank with new fervor. That behavior is out-and-out religious irredentism and would not be tolerated in our relations with any other modern state.

There is a lot of Israeli behavior that has to do with their living surrounded by people who want to destroy them for reasons of... religious irredentism. But the settlements? What justifies them other than, "This is our land because the Torah says so" ?
Hey Cornhole, is this another example of "criticizing conservatism from the right?" Sounds like typical leftist moral equivalence to me.

ES, how dare you compare suicide bombers who strap bombs to their chests and kill innocent Israelis on the street to anything a good man like Benjamin Netanyahu does, who has been such a good friend to America, you son of a bitch?

Religious irredentism? How many Arab states are there for Palestinians to live in? 16? 17? Israel has offered again and again to give those people whatever they want to move on with their lives, but they choose to stay holed up like dogs because the only thing that matters in their life is killing Jews. If they want to act like animals, like dogs, fine, let us treat them that way. Do dogs have a right to land? Maybe animal rights is now a "conservative" opinion?

ES, don't you fashion yourself as this super-enlightened Christian? Tell me why it seems like every other evangelical Christian in America has become a friend to the Jews, while you're stuck in your medieval anti-Semitism? Who's the enlightened one now?

I'm getting tired of this act. Let's drop the pretense and call Bud Light and Cornhole for what they really are.

[Winehole23]

Much funnier this time, but only slightly less vapid. You just throw shit on the wall.

[Extra Stout]

ES, how dare you compare suicide bombers who strap bombs to their chests and kill innocent Israelis on the street to anything a good man like Benjamin Netanyahu does, who has been such a good friend to America, you son of a bitch?
Have any Palestinians been killed or dispossessed in the building of West Bank settlements?


Religious irredentism? How many Arab states are there for Palestinians to live in? 16? 17?
What difference does that make? There already is a Jewish state. What gives it the right to seize more land by force? Who care if there are other Arab states? Can I seize your house and give it to somebody else because there are plenty of other places where bloodthirsty jingoists can go live?


Israel has offered again and again to give those people whatever they want to move on with their lives, but they choose to stay holed up like dogs because the only thing that matters in their life is killing Jews. If they want to act like animals, like dogs, fine, let us treat them that way. Do dogs have a right to land? Maybe animal rights is now a "conservative" opinion?
Who cares what Israel offered them? If Mexico comes in and offers you money for your house, and you say, 'No, this is my home,' and then they come and force you out at gunpoint, does that make you a dog if you get upset about it?


ES, don't you fashion yourself as this super-enlightened Christian? Tell me why it seems like every other evangelical Christian in America has become a friend to the Jews, while you're stuck in your medieval anti-Semitism? Who's the enlightened one now?I don't know that I fashion myself as anything. Why is it that people throw out the label "anti-Semite" to anybody who criticizes any aspect of Israeli policy? Why does "friendship to Jews" = "supporting Greater Israel" ?

Did you know Palestinian Christians also got dispossessed? Did you know brown people can be Christians too?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Good. The US-Israeli alliance is entirely one sided at the moment. The US needs to demonstrate some independent judgment in the middle east

[JoeChalupa]

Good. The US-Israeli alliance is entirely one sided at the moment. The US needs to demonstrate some independent judgment in the middle east

I concur.

[Homeland Security]

Look at Bud Light. Typical liberal piece of dog shit. That land is Israel's land. The Palestinians can go live somewhere else. If Israel takes their own land by force, good for them. If Palestinian "Christians" want to be terrorists, they can go to hell with the rest of the hajis.

Anything else? Cornhole? Any other board libs?


Good. The US-Israeli alliance is entirely one sided at the moment. The US needs to demonstrate some independent judgment in the middle east It's one-sided because one side is a great friend and ally to the United States while the other is full of people who cheer and shoot bullets in the air in celebration when Americans die. I hope they kill some of your loved ones. Maybe then you'll finally wake up.

[Duff McCartney]

I'm finally glad somebody will stand up to Israels disregard for the rights of Palestinians. I've never been a supporter of Israel and I despise AIPAC. I think the United States should just leave Israel to itself, if it wasn't for the support of the United States, Israel wouldn't exist in any form anymore.

48 would have been a disaster for those Jewish terrorists...aka the Irgun. Yes..I don't care what anyone says...the founding fathers of Israel were just like the founding fathers of the U.S. criminals and terrorists. Let's not kid ourselves about that.

Either way as long as Israel keeps building settlements on the West Bank they will never have peace. As long as Israel's policy is controlled by the hawkish right wing nuts like Netanyahu then the Arab states will forever be hostile towards them.

[Winehole23]

48 would have been a disaster for those Jewish terrorists...aka the Irgun. Yes..I don't care what anyone says...the founding fathers of Israel were just like the founding fathers of the U.S. criminals and terrorists. Let's not kid ourselves about that.I don't remember that part of the story. Can you refresh my memory about US founders being criminals and terrorists?

[Homeland Security]

48 would have been a disaster for those Jewish terrorists...aka the Irgun. Yes..I don't care what anyone says...the founding fathers of Israel were just like the founding fathers of the U.S. criminals and terrorists. Let's not kid ourselves about that.

:lmao I love how liberals don't pull any punches! America was founded by criminals and terrorists!

The only difference between you and Al-Qaeda is that they actually have the balls to act out what they believe. Pussy. You deserve to be left bloodied on the pavement.

[Winehole23]

I hope they kill some of your loved ones. Maybe then you'll finally wake up.You've already got a plan for that, and you're obviously pining for the opportunity to unveil it.

Why don't you just tell us, so we don't have to read any more goofy articles about FEMA camps and chemtrails?

[Homeland Security]

You've already got a plan for that, and you're obviously pining for the opportunity to unveil it.

Why don't you just tell us, so we don't have to read any more goofy articles about FEMA camps and chemtrails?
Oh, you just wait.

Democrats are like children. Republicans are adults. Every once in a while you let the children get their own way so they can see just how screwed up things get. But eventually the adults are going to step in again to fix it, and Dad's coming with the belt to give them the beating they deserve.

[Winehole23]

But eventually the adults are going to step in again to fix it, and Dad's coming with the belt to give them the beating they deserve.Fantasies of cruel and sadistic patrimony carry the day and are reenacted from time to to time, for the edification of our nieces and nephews, and all the little children.



Watch out for big daddy.



We deserved it, sez you.



I think you better watch out for us, when you come to take us. You're just brandishing a belt, HS.

[Winehole23]

Watch out fake big daddy. They'll whip yer behind in here.

[DarrinS]

So, to summarize, fuck Israel?

[Winehole23]

So, to summarize, fuck Israel?No.

Who said that, Darrin?

[sook]

lmfao Winehole just tore him a new one.

I think this is right. We need to support them from a threat from nuclear Iran but the whole expanding and building new settlements is outrageous.

I love how Homeland security tries to equate Palestenians to sub human beings and thinks that Israel is a great "Ally." You do realize that 90% of the hate towards us stems directly from our foreign policy towards them?

You are the quintessence of an ignorant fucker. Its funny you think all conservatives should spread their hands and knees under Israel as their president "Brags" about telling Rice what to do.

[Winehole23]

Beccause Israel has recieved a particle of scrutiny regarding the settlements, you are quick to claim someone wants to see Israel fucked.

How exactly does that follow, from anything posted in this thread?

Not in your imagination, D.

In this thread. Please focus.

[Winehole23]

Instead of choosing a target, Darrin just throws it out there hoping someone else will connect the dots.

[Winehole23]

That's pretty lazy, D.

You're such a bad father to your very own threads. You ignore and neglect them, and just throw out random shit when you do show up.

[Winehole23]

But hell, that's what you did to start with.

[Winehole23]

.

[sook]

So, to summarize, fuck Israel?

Bravo on your rudimentary conjecture.

[DarrinS]

That's pretty lazy, D.

You're such a bad father to your very own threads. You ignore and neglect them, and just throw out random shit when you do show up.


I post articles that I think are interesting. I thought that the responses were almost immediately defensive of Obama and negative towards Israel. I expected nothing less.

[Winehole23]

The no criticism jehad is entirely too dire. You make too much of the disagreement, D.

[DarrinS]

We could always just debate mayo vs. mustard on Obama burgers.

[Winehole23]

Why on earth would you suggest that? We were already talking about something else.

Topicality, D!

[Winehole23]

You throw out something obviously biased, then carp about all the bias you receive in return,

Where do you think you are, D?

[Homeland Security]

To summarize liberal thoughts for the day:

Conservatives make fun of Obama in a fashion that pales to what liberals did to Bush for 8 years. Liberals act like idiots and think that we're saying mustard is some kind of serious policy discussion. Of course, when they called Bush a chimpanzee, to their adolescent minds, that probably was serious policy discussion.

Then, we have this Israel thread, discussing how Obama is giving the cold shoulder to our longtime ally. Liberals: 1) make moral equivalence between Israel and Palestinian terrorists, 2) cheer Obama's 'evenhandedness' between loyal allies and terrorists who want to kill us, and 3) characterize the fathers of our country as criminals and terrorists.

Finally, we have a thread calling for the legalization of crack and heroin so liberals can get their fix without worrying about jail time.

At least on this day, I've seen nothing to convince me that my opinion of you as morally depraved buffoons who deserve to be kicked out of this great country of ours, or that the election of one of you to the Presidency is grounds to start thinking of secession in order to protect our liberty, needs to change at all.

To hell with the lot of you.

[RickPerry]

To summarize liberal thoughts for the day:

Conservatives make fun of Obama in a fashion that pales to what liberals did to Bush for 8 years. Liberals act like idiots and think that we're saying mustard is some kind of serious policy discussion. Of course, when they called Bush a chimpanzee, to their adolescent minds, that probably was serious policy discussion.

Then, we have this Israel thread, discussing how Obama is giving the cold shoulder to our longtime ally. Liberals: 1) make moral equivalence between Israel and Palestinian terrorists, 2) cheer Obama's 'evenhandedness' between loyal allies and terrorists who want to kill us, and 3) characterize the fathers of our country as criminals and terrorists.

Finally, we have a thread calling for the legalization of crack and heroin so liberals can get their fix without worrying about jail time.

At least on this day, I've seen nothing to convince me that my opinion of you as morally depraved buffoons who deserve to be kicked out of this great country of ours, or that the election of one of you to the Presidency is grounds to start thinking of secession in order to protect our liberty, needs to change at all.

To hell with the lot of you.

I couldn't agree with you more! To hell with them all.

[Winehole23]

Then, we have this Israel thread, discussing how Obama is giving the cold shoulder to our longtime ally. Liberals: 1) make moral equivalence between Israel and Palestinian terrorists, 2) cheer Obama's 'evenhandedness' between loyal allies and terrorists who want to kill us, and 3) characterize the fathers of our country as criminals and terrorists.Wah. You're pathetic. Are your feelings hurt? Too bad.

Big daddy doesn't really care about you, fake big daddy.


At least on this day, I've seen nothing to convince me that my opinion of you as morally depraved buffoons who deserve to be kicked out of this great country of ours, or that the election of one of you to the Presidency is grounds to start thinking of secession in order to protect our liberty, needs to change at all.

To hell with the lot of you.Don't sugarcoat it, Hi-skool Security. :lol

[Duff McCartney]

I don't remember that part of the story. Can you refresh my memory about US founders being criminals and terrorists?

Or didn't you know the British considered the revolutionaries terrorists and criminals? Just because you don't consider them criminals or terrorists doesn't mean somebody else didn't. Everyone knows the British thought of them that way..and the British also considered the Irgun terrorists as well.

"Hon. Members will have learned with horror of the brutal and murderous crime committed yesterday in Jerusalem. Of all the outrages which have occurred in Palestine, and they have been many and horrible in the last few months, this is the worst. By this insane act of terrorism 93 innocent people have been killed or are missing in the ruins."

This spoken by Prime Minister Clement Attlee after the Irgun bombed the King David hotel in Jerusalem.

[Winehole23]

Or didn't you know the British considered the revolutionaries terrorists and criminals? Just because you don't consider them criminals or terrorists doesn't mean somebody else didn't.From the British point of view, of course. I was speaking as a Norteamericano.

[Duff McCartney]

From the British point of view, of course. I was speaking as a Norteamericano.

Okay. Well they were terrorists and criminals.

[Winehole23]

In the received version, it was a high-minded bourgeois revolt.

[Duff McCartney]

In the received version, it was a high-minded bourgeois revolt.

"Okay guys, one more thing, this summer when you're being inundated with all this American bicentennial Fourth Of July brouhaha, don't forget what you're celebrating, and that's the fact that a bunch of slave-owning, aristocratic, white males didn't want to pay their taxes."

[Winehole23]

Beer and gunpowder day. Get ye some fireworks, friend, and drink some beer with us on the 4th!

[JoeChalupa]

"Okay guys, one more thing, this summer when you're being inundated with all this American bicentennial Fourth Of July brouhaha, don't forget what you're celebrating, and that's the fact that a bunch of slave-owning, aristocratic, white males didn't want to pay their taxes."

I'll pay the tax on my beer like a good American.

[Duff McCartney]

Beer and gunpowder day. Get ye some fireworks, friend, and drink some beer with us on the 4th!

Sounds good..except I don't drink beer. Or any alcohol for that matter.

Did that joke pass over your heads? It's from Dazed and Confused.

[Winehole23]

My cultural programming is deficient. My bad.

[Extra Stout]

Sounds good..except I don't drink beer. Or any alcohol for that matter.

Did that joke pass over your heads? It's from Dazed and Confused.
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

[Extra Stout]

My cultural programming is deficient. My bad.
I suck at pop culture references. I did laugh at a parody of "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" that told the story of the Council of Nicaea once.

[Winehole23]

You're invited for the 4th even if you don't drink, DuffMc. It's a hell of a party.

[Cry Havoc]

You're invited for the 4th even if you don't drink, DuffMc. It's a hell of a party.

Just keep in mind that the gigantic hollow tubes are not chairs.

[Winehole23]

Poignant, CH. :lol