Props to Carmelo

[timvp]

He might not always know the correct way to run after throwing a punch but playa is a damn clutch shooter at the end of games. The stats say he has been the clutchest over the years and I can't really disagree. LeBron is the best player in the game from minute 1 through minute 43, Kobe is the best from 43 to 47.9 ... but give me Carmelo for the final shot over anyone else.

Props :toast

[siopaoboi]

wow, i wasnt expecting something like this from a spurs board. seems that most of the time, only nuggs fans are aware of melo's game winning ways, outside of that, he always gets called a thug or a pussy, give melo a chance to change guys. he has turned the corner so it seems since the olympics :)

[DrHouse]

:lmao

I'll take the Kobester over soft ass Melo any day of the week.

Melo is not even on a superstar level. He's an All-Star.

Superstar = Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, CP3, etc.

[lefty]

I give him props for not reacting to the non-foul

He could have been easily thrown off by the non-call, but stayed focused and launched a 3

[florige]

:lmao

I'll take the Kobester over soft ass Melo any day of the week.

Melo is not even on a superstar level. He's an All-Star.

Superstar = Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, CP3, etc.



He did say for the last shot.

[timvp]

:lmao

I'll take the Kobester over soft ass Melo any day of the week.

Melo is not even on a superstar level. He's an All-Star.

Superstar = Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, CP3, etc.

We're talking game-winning shots. Kobe is statistically one of the worst players in the league at game-winning shots. Carmelo has year after year been near the top and he's hit 'em from all angles.

[Libri]

I give him props for not reacting to the non-foul

He could have been easily thrown off by the non-call, but stayed focused and launched a 3

Yes, he didn't stop playing.

[DrHouse]

Even for the last shot...when has Melo even had the opportunity to TAKE a clutch shot in the NBA?

And no, shooting a shot at the end of the game in a series where you are up 2-0 to a shitty team like DAL where your defender tried to intentionally foul you and then walked away from the play is NOT CLUTCH.

[timvp]

Even for the last shot...when has Melo even had the opportunity to TAKE a clutch shot in the NBA?

And no, shooting a shot at the end of the game in a series where you are up 2-0 to a shitty team like DAL where your defender tried to intentionally foul you and then walked away from the play is NOT CLUTCH.

Apparently you must not consider playing in the NBA Finals without Shaq a clutch situation either.

[STX_21]

:lmao

I'll take the Kobester over soft ass Melo any day of the week.

Melo is not even on a superstar level. He's an All-Star.

Superstar = Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, CP3, etc.

WTF does being a superstar have to do with this? Who cares if he's on a "superstar level" or and "all-star leve". The point is being made that dude is clutch. Robert Horry and Steve Kerr weren't superstars....you wanna make the argument that this doesn't make them clutch? Please, let your arguments actually pertain.

[Obstructed_View]

Carmelo > Kobe.

[01Snake]

:lmao

I'll take the Kobester over soft ass Melo any day of the week.

Melo is not even on a superstar level. He's an All-Star.

Superstar = Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, CP3, etc.

You would suck Kobe's dick if you had the chance so we're not really surprised.

[siopaoboi]

Hes still a thug and a pussy, he just has a knack for hitting some much needed shots. But I still wouldn't take him over Kobe with that last shot, we saw that in the Olympics.

nobody is forcing you to take melo over kobe. melo has taken a lot of criticism in his career, he deserves some props tonight. at least give the guy credit for a great shot.

[timvp]

Since the 2003-2004 season counting both the regular season and the playoffs, Carmelo Anthony is now 14-for-28 in game-winning shots.

Kobe Bryant has also hit 14 such shots ... on 56 attempts :lmao :lmao

It's not even close. Only a blind Laker Fan who is emotionally attached to Kobe's trespassing testes could argue against those numbers.

[DrHouse]

I don't care what your stats say.

When the game is on the line I want the ball in Kobe's hands.

Apparently so did Team USA in the 2008 Olympics. Neither Melo, Lebron, or anyone else on the court wanted to take that last shot. They all deferred to Kobe who delivered on the world's biggest stage (can you imagine what would have happened had we LOST to Spain)

[Ghazi]

Carmelo is not a superstar.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't care what your stats say.

When the game is on the line I want the ball in Kobe's hands.

Apparently so did Team USA in the 2008 Olympics. Neither Melo, Lebron, or anyone else on the court wanted to take that last shot. They all deferred to Kobe who delivered on the world's biggest stage (can you imagine what would have happened had we LOST to Spain)

LOL @ "Kobe = Clutch because he beat Pau's team"

[ducks]

melo grow up this year with chancy

[siopaoboi]

Carmelo is not a superstar.

i dont think anyone was claiming he was :whine

[timvp]

I don't care what your stats say.

When the game is on the line I want the ball in Kobe's hands.I'm sure you do.


Apparently so did Team USA in the 2008 Olympics. Neither Melo, Lebron, or anyone else on the court wanted to take that last shot. They all deferred to Kobe who delivered on the world's biggest stage (can you imagine what would have happened had we LOST to Spain)
:sleep

If we're bringing international competition into the mix, then Ginobili should be the player who gets the ball at the end. Ginobili winning a gold medal with Argentina >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe winning with the best teammates in the world.

So if we go by the NBA, it's Carmelo. If we go by international basketball, it's Ginobili.

[jmanu20]

I don't care what your stats say because I know they're correct.

When the game is on the line I want the ball in Kobe's hands.

Apparently so did Team USA in the 2008 Olympics. Neither Melo, Lebron, or anyone else on the court wanted to take that last shot. They all deferred to Kobe who delivered on the world's biggest stage (can you imagine what would have happened had we LOST to Spain)

Fixed.

[Rogue]

melo grow up this year with chancy
melo crecer desde un pedazo de mierda.

[ducks]

i dont think anyone was claiming he was :whine

melo could be finals mvp his year:wow

[siopaoboi]

melo could be finals mvp his year:wow

he wasnt even an all star this year :rolleyes

[iggypop123]

melo isnt even the guy on his own team they want with the ball in the last seconds

[coldsweat]

I don't care what your stats say.

When the game is on the line I want the ball in Kobe's hands.

Apparently so did Team USA in the 2008 Olympics. Neither Melo, Lebron, or anyone else on the court wanted to take that last shot. They all deferred to Kobe who delivered on the world's biggest stage (can you imagine what would have happened had we LOST to Spain)

haha, trying to count on your intuition again :lmao

[pauls931]

I just saw the highlights, looks like they did foul him at the end but the defender then threw up his hands like he was trying to avoid that call. WTF!? Grab him!!!

[lefty]

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/de791d52-2e26-4297-a213-0c47c2235eac.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/e657446c-73a1-445d-8a8a-d9f95050a5e8.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/18016837-8f2e-45a4-b7f7-4b7a9d66c9ab.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/a6bc80d2-3d34-4240-bac9-fc8d46029247.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/a677928f-c613-4335-8110-a8a60e416001.jpg

[MI21]

Kobe Bryant is absolutely incredible in the 4th quarter from minute 12:00 to 0:10 seconds. But his clutch shooting on the final shot of the game is so overrated. Carmelo is incredible on the final, game ending shot.

It's kind of like Ginobili on the Spurs... Gimme Parker taking the last shot for the Spurs over Manu even though Manu is the better 4th quarter player.

[Budkin]

Give me Thaddeus Young any day of the year. Dude is a ridiculous 100% on game winning shots.

[GSH]

(can you imagine what would have happened had we LOST to Spain)




Yeah... you would be blaming the loss on someone else, and making excuses for Kobe. The real Dr. House would say that you have some unresolved man-love issues.

[DrHouse]

Clutchness can't be totally encapsulated in how many game winners you hit. I know that doesn't make much sense when you read it, but there is a reason why guys who are more clutch statistically than Kobe is chose to defer to him in last year's Olympics.

[IronMexican]

Hes still a thug and a pussy, he just has a knack for hitting some much needed shots. But I still wouldn't take him over Kobe with that last shot, we saw that in the Olympics.

Sounds like Carmelo and Gangstalicious are related.

[Obstructed_View]

Clutchness can't be totally encapsulated in how many game winners you hit. I know that doesn't make much sense when you read it, but there is a reason why guys who are more clutch statistically than Kobe is chose to defer to him in last year's Olympics.

Because Kobe is a glory-seeking chucker who puts his own heroism above any team he happens to be on due to a fanbase that desperately wants to believe that he's Michael Jordan and is willing to make every excuse for him?

[Killakobe81]

We're talking game-winning shots. Kobe is statistically one of the worst players in the league at game-winning shots. Carmelo has year after year been near the top and he's hit 'em from all angles.

This is one time you are being foolish ...and i think you are one of the best posters on this site.
Stats are not the best indicator watch the games.
Of course Kobe's percentage sucks cuz he takes more than ANYONE plus he has been in the position to take many and never shies away from it.
MJ mmissed a lot as well but made a lot ...just like Kobe ...
You can take Melo more power to you ...if it's just a hot I have him rated high as well ...but over Kobe you just lost some cool points.
And as far as Lebron goes great plyer but not the best yet. hat is like saying Bosh or Amare or Dhoward are better than duncan ...that is foolish athletic talent doesnt make you the best ...

[Killakobe81]

Mj is better and more clutch than Kobe ..Melo,Lebron wade are not.
Olympics is one example ...melo finally hit one in the playoffs ...kudos how many has Kobe hit?
he has game winning or tying jumpers in the Finals,and each round of the playoffs Melo has one ...

[Killakobe81]

Give me Thaddeus Young any day of the year. Dude is a ridiculous 100% on game winning shots.

Exactly!! he has been clutch since college but this is a whole nother level when you say he is better than Kobe in clutch but wait you know more than the PLAYERS who many dislike Kobe ...but still voted him in an SI player poll last year the best clutch shooter ...but wait spur fans are wayyyy more objective!

[Chieflion]

Mj is better and more clutch than Kobe ..Melo,Lebron wade are not.
Olympics is one example ...melo finally hit one in the playoffs ...kudos how many has Kobe hit?
he has game winning or tying jumpers in the Finals,and each round of the playoffs Melo has one ...
Small sample size in the playoffs, for Melo. Melo can always nail it, and if he is even 90% focused, he can be a superstar.

[timvp]

melo isnt even the guy on his own team they want with the ball in the last seconds

Who do you think they want? His clutch stats destroy every player on his team.


Clutchness can't be totally encapsulated in how many game winners you hit.

Um, shortbus, I'm specifically talking about game-winners. I'm not talking clutchness. On game-winners, Carmelo has a track record of being deadly. Kobe, on the other hand, has a track record of missing three for every one he hits.

That doesn't make Kobe unclutch ... he obviously is damn clutch ... but not making game-winners at better than a 25% clip makes you not the best shooter when it comes to game-winners.

[Obstructed_View]

Don't let facts get in the way, Lakerfan. :lmao

[timvp]

Exactly!! he has been clutch since college but this is a whole nother level when you say he is better than Kobe in clutch but wait you know more than the PLAYERS who many dislike Kobe ...but still voted him in an SI player poll last year the best clutch shooter ...but wait spur fans are wayyyy more objective!Again, Kobe is a clutch shooter, he's just not the BEST shooter when it comes to hitting a game-winner.

[Killakobe81]

Melo is badasss but ALWAYS nail it? SO he is better than MJ?

[DrHouse]

Life is good OV. My team is still battling for a championship.

How are the fish?

[Findog]

We're talking about shots in the final ten seconds to either tie or give your team the lead. Melo's numbers are off the charts in this scenario. He's the absolute last guy you want taking a buzzer beater if your team is playing the Nuggets.

[Obstructed_View]

Life is good OV. My team is still battling for a championship.

How are the fish?

Yet all you care about is whether or not Spurfan gives Kobe props that he doesn't deserve. Perspective much?

[Killakobe81]

Who do you think they want? His clutch stats destroy every player on his team.



Um, shortbus, I'm specifically talking about game-winners. I'm not talking clutchness. On game-winners, Carmelo has a track record of being deadly. Kobe, on the other hand, has a track record of missing three for every one he hits.

That doesn't make Kobe unclutch ... he obviously is damn clutch ... but not making game-winners at better than a 25% clip makes you not the best shooter when it comes to game-winners.

Ahh "shortbus" mature.
I went and praised you ... but you are dropping another notch here. attack me because I disagree with you?
Yes his clutch stats are nice ...but what are you Hollinger and Kamla's love-child? (JK)
So if i showed you stats that Reggie miller or Ray allen had better true Game winner stats that would mean what?
If that's the case I take Horry over everyone on this list not named Kobe. And he is a great clutch shooter but I STILL would not take him over Kobe and to be honest when healthy i would take Manu over melo in that situation as well because I watch games with my eyes and go by my feel. When i watch Manu take shots late against the Lakers I feel like he is going to make them most of the time... he is proven he has hit them in Olympics, Playoffs regular season and FINALS ...who cares if Melo's % is better? he has done it ONE TIME!!!!
Hell Hedu has hit more clutch playoff shots so far in his career

I would take ray allen and Pierce over Melo as well at this point ...because they are proven!! Hel i bet Gilbert arenas has a good last second percentage ...

Watch teh game especially playoffs ...kudos to melo he has one but he has FARRRR to go!

[timvp]

Players Who Have Hit At Least 7 Game Winners in the Last Five Seasons - Ranked by Percentage
Antawn Jamison - 56.3%
Carmelo Anthony - 50.0%
Pau Gasol - 50.0%
Hedo Turkoglu - 50.0%
Mehmet Okur - 46.7%
Zach Randolph - 41.2%
Steve Francis - 40.9%
Derek Fisher - 40.0%
Allen Iverson - 39.4%
Tim Duncan - 39.1%
Ray Allen - 38.5%
Rashard Lewis - 38.5%
Chris Paul - 38.1%
Brandon Roy - 36.8%
Mike Bibby - 36.4%
Richard Hamilton - 36.4%
Andre Iguodala - 36.4%
Ricky Davis - 35.7%
Ben Gordon - 35.3%
Paul Pierce - 34.4%
LeBron James - 34.0%
Dirk Nowitzki - 32.4%
Gilbert Arenas - 32.1%
Baron Davis - 31.8%
Vince Carter - 31.4%
Jason Terry - 30.8%
Michael Redd - 30.0%
Raymond Felton - 29.2%
Tracy McGrady - 28.1%
Dwyane Wade - 27.5%
Kevin Garnett - 27.3%
Joe Johnson - 26.7%
Jamal Crawford - 25.6%
Kobe Bryant - 25.0%







:lol Kobe is dead last on the list, yet Laker Fan can't admit that *gasp* Kobe might not be the absolute best in the NBA in this one aspect of basketball.

[Obstructed_View]

Ahh "shortbus" mature.
I went and praised you ...you but you are dropping another notch here. attack me because I disagree.
Yes his clutch stats are nice ...but what are you Hollinger and Kamla's love-child? (JK)
So if i showed you stats that Reggie miller or Ray allen had better true Game winner stats that would mean what?
If that's the case I take Horry over everyone on this list. And he is a great clutch shooter but I STILL would not take him over Kobe and to be honest when healthy i would take Manu over melo in athat situation as well because I watch games with my eyes and go by my feel. When i watch Manu take shots late against the Lakers I feel like he is going to make them most of the time... he is proven he has hit them in Olympics, Playoffs regular season and FINALS ...who cares if Melo's % is better? he has sone it ONE TIME!!!!

I would take ray allen and Pierce over Melo as well at this point ...because they are proven!! Hel i bet Gilbert arenas has a good last second percentage ...

Watch teh game especially playoffs ...kudos to melo he has one but he has FARRRR to go!

Actually, he's done it exactly the same number of times Kobe has, but it's taken him far less attempts to do so.

[Findog]

Melo is the best at hitting game-winning shots. Guys like Horry are decent 3-pt shooters, but his rep is enhanced by playing for 7 different title teams and having many opportunities to take wide open threes by playing off of Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan or whomever. He missed a lot of big shots too.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol Kobe is dead last on the list, yet Laker Fan can't admit that *gasp* Kobe might not be the absolute best in the NBA in this one aspect of basketball.

So imagine when they have to face that he's the third best on the Lakers.

[Obstructed_View]

Findog, :lmao at your avatar.

I'll kill a snitch.

[Findog]

According to the stats, you're in better hands with Ricky Davis at the end of games than Kobe Bryant :lmao

[DrHouse]

I'll never forgive Horry for 2003.

Motherfucker went like 2/19 from 3pt land and missed the one 3 that could have changed the series.

[DrHouse]

According to the stats, you're in better hands with Ricky Davis at the end of games than Kobe Bryant :lmao

Which is why these stats are useless.

[Findog]

Findog, :lmao at your avatar.

I'll kill a snitch.

I will say this. I fucking hate the Nuggets now. They are a cocky bunch of assholes for a squad that has never accomplished anything except getting out of the first round exactly ONCE. I will enjoy the Lakers putting them in their place.

[Obstructed_View]

Which is why these stats are useless.

They're "useless" only because they don't prove that Kobe's the most bestest ever.

[DAF86]

This is one time you are being foolish ...and i think you are one of the best posters on this site.
Stats are not the best indicator watch the games.
Of course Kobe's percentage sucks cuz he takes more than ANYONE plus he has been in the position to take many and never shies away from it.
MJ mmissed a lot as well but made a lot ...just like Kobe ...
You can take Melo more power to you ...if it's just a hot I have him rated high as well ...but over Kobe you just lost some cool points.
And as far as Lebron goes great plyer but not the best yet. hat is like saying Bosh or Amare or Dhoward are better than duncan ...that is foolish athletic talent doesnt make you the best ...

Since when taking more shots makes your shooting % decrease? taking stupid selfish shots over two guys makes your shooting % decrease.

And about that last part: you're right, foolish athletic talent doesn't make you the best. Getting the best record on the league with Mo Williams as your best teammate makes you the best.

[timvp]

Ahh "shortbus" mature.
I went and praised you ...you but you are dropping another notch here. attack me because I disagree. Bro, I that was directed to Dr. House. Check the quote again. :toast

I'm sure there are a lot of Laker Fans and non-Laker Fans who would pick Kobe. It's not a bad choice because he's obviously a great clutch player and the best finisher in the game. But personally, last shot, Carmelo has done it again and again and again. It's true he hasn't been on the biggest of stages but he was clutch in college while winning a championship without having Shaq on his team at Syracuse and he's been clutch in the NBA literally every season.

Overall, Carmelo is a bit overrated as a player. I don't even like him that much because he seems to in love with his stats. But he's damn clutch on final shots. This year, he shot 57% from the field and 59% on threes during clutch situations. Those are insane numbers for a go-to player on a good team.

But if Laker Fan wants to pick Kobe, that's fine. If I'm making a list, he's going to be in the top five. He just doesn't happen to be number one on my list.

[Findog]

Which is why these stats are useless.

Ricky Davis is better at taking last second shots than Kobe Bryant. I'm not selectively pulling one instance of Davis making a last-second shot in a regular season game whereas Kobe missed an off-balance three at the buzzer in a playoff game on the road with two guys in his grill. Davis' superiority to Bryant in this realm has been repeatedly borne out again and again. You can't argue against math, Laker fan.

[Killakobe81]

this is silly % means crap ...
Melo has a good percentage and as hit a lot in the REGULAR SEASON
Timvp check your history Kobe has a gamewinner vs. Phoenix ...
the clinching tip in vs the Pacers in the Finals
The game tying jumper to force OT vs. the Pistons in the FINALS and that is just off the top of my head I also believe a game winner vs. the SPurs in teh playoffs (or maybe to go up 4)

Point is he has done it more times regardless of % and again when healthy manu has done it more as well yes they are older ...as a former HS coach i take the senior who has done it for 4 years over the freshman that has done it for 1 game.

and I love melo i watched his run in colege and i think he is better offensive player than Lebron or Wade ...

[Obstructed_View]

I will say this. I fucking hate the Nuggets now. They are a cocky bunch of assholes for a squad that has never accomplished anything except getting out of the first round exactly ONCE. I will enjoy the Lakers putting them in their place.

Yep. There was a big disucssion on the Mavs postgame about KMart being upset about being called a thug by Mavs fans. I wondered why nobody said "umm...but he IS a thug". If we want to specify that he's a thug only in basketball, should we start using the hockey term "goon"? Of course, that sounds like "coon" so I bet Kmart would need his sister to take issue with that.

[timvp]

Speaking of players prone to choke on last second shots, Chauncey "Mr. Big Shot" Billups is 6-for-37 on game-winners.

:smchode:

[DAF86]

Ricky Davis is better at taking last second shots than Kobe Bryant. I'm not selectively pulling one instance of Davis making a last-second shot in a regular season game whereas Kobe missed an off-balance three at the buzzer in a playoff game on the road with two guys in his grill. Davis' superiority to Bryant in this realm has been repeatedly borne out again and again. You can't argue against math, Laker fan.

Well, maybe Kobe's team would be better off with somebody else taking a wide open shot than with him taking an "off-balanced three with two guys in his grill."

[Findog]

Part of why I bet Kobe shoots a poor % is because he almost always takes the last shot for the Lakers in these situations. I'm sure that he doesn't have to even verbally demand that the play be run for him, it's done to placate his Alpha Male aping of MJ...and the Lakers had shit else besides him in the post-Shaq/pre-Pau era. Because he wants to be Jordan, it's probably anathema to him to pass out of a double team to a wide-open teammate who has a good look. And teams can adjust accordingly by trapping and doubling him in these catch and shoot situations.

[timvp]

I will say this. I fucking hate the Nuggets now. They are a cocky bunch of assholes for a squad that has never accomplished anything except getting out of the first round exactly ONCE. I will enjoy the Lakers putting them in their place.

Yeah, I can't wait for the Nuggets to implode. Kenyon Martin is a gigantic douchebag but he is only an average douchebag on that team.

I don't want the Nuggets to win the championship .... so I might have to actually root for the Lakers to beat them. Denver lacks anything close to humbleness right now.

[JoeTait75]

Speaking of players prone to choke on last second shots, Chauncey "Mr. Big Shot" Billups is 6-for-37 on game-winners.

:smchode:

Chauncey's clutch prowess is overrated. Cavaliers stymied him in the Playoffs with Eric Snow on defense.

Carmelo is a beast. And :lol at Lake Show Fan being butt-hurt at the notion that there might be another great player in this league besides #24. Get over it.

[Killakobe81]

When healthy out of current guys Im taking ...
1. Kobe
2. Manu
3. Pierce/Allen
4. Wade
5. Lebron
6. Melo

What is the common denominator? ALL of the top 5 have not only hit clutch regular season shots but have hit them in all 4 rounds of the playoffs INCLUDING the FINALS ...

I agree Melo is great in very last second regular season games and hit this first one in the playoffs but come on ...seriously you take him over that top 5?
Really last posession 5 seconds or les and you take Melo? AFTER ONE playoff game and because you crunched numbers?
Brilliant.
And dont be fooled b my moniker i dont think kobe walks on water ..Magic is my all time favorite Laker an Kobe does NOT make all time 5 ...(Magic, MJ, Bird duncan Kareem)
But he is my fave current player and is regarded by players, coaches media as the best clutch player in the game today even if Lebron is considered the better player now by everyone except haters, Lebron worshipers and peole he has torched along the way.

[monosylab1k]

When it comes to taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe any day over Carmelo. But I'll take Carmelo any day over Dirk.

*Cue Ghazi or one of his trolls.*

[Findog]

Yeah, I can't wait for the Nuggets to implode. Kenyon Martin is a gigantic douchebag but he is only an average douchebag on that team.

I don't want the Nuggets to win the championship .... so I might have to actually root for the Lakers to beat them. Denver lacks anything close to humbleness right now.

I just can't associate JR Smith, Kenyon Martin, Methbird and Melo with anything remotely resembling respect for the game. Well, that's not fair, I like Birdman, but congratulations on being this year's 04-05 Sonics and 07-08 Hornets. You can stop sucking each other's dicks now and get over yourselves.

[timvp]

When healthy out of current guys Im taking ...
1. Kobe
2. Manu
3. Pierce/Allen
4. Wade
5. Lebron
6. Melo

What is the common denominator? ALL of the top 5 have not only hit clutch regular season shots but have hit them in all 4 rounds of the playoffs INCLUDING the FINALS ...

I agree Melo is great in very last second regular season games and hit this first one in the playoffs but come on ...seriously you take him over that top 5?
Really last posession 5 seconds or les and you take Melo? AFTER ONE playoff game and because you crunched numbers?
Brilliant.
And dont be fooled b my moniker i dont think kobe walks on water ..Magic is my all time favorite Laker an Kobe does NOT make all time 5 ...(Magic, MJ, Bird duncan Kareem)
But he is my fave current player and is regarded by players, coaches media as the best clutch player in the game today even if Lebron is considered the better player now by everyone except haters, Lebron worshipers and peole he has torched along the way.

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

[Killakobe81]

Speaking of players prone to choke on last second shots, Chauncey "Mr. Big Shot" Billups is 6-for-37 on game-winners.

:smchode:

But i bet those 6 wre huge but i agree he is overrated ...

I also put duncan there espcially if it's ost play but again if you look at stats duncan is 100% on game tying playoff 3's ...

But i still rather have Manu take it even though the %'s favor duncan because Im not a stat whore like Hollinger ...

[Obstructed_View]

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

Yeah, I think Manu's great to have for a fourth quarter when you need a lift, but for every layup against Phoenix, there's a turnover that leads to a Kevin Martin layup.

[Killakobe81]

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

I agree duncan is more clutch but look at a coach's perspective if the play breaks down ...Manu can drive shoot and is great FT shooter that is why he gets the nod over Duncan but if play is executed who wouldnt choose duncan?

But taht is like choosing kerr or Paxson over MJ if they are wide open of course they are better clutch shooters but I still take MJ

[Killakobe81]

Yeah, I think Manu's great to have for a fourth quarter when you need a lift, but for every layup against Phoenix, there's a turnover that leads to a Kevin Martin layup.

I wont lie ...Manu is can kill you with To's BUT he has been more clutch than not in the biggest games ...regular season is for chumps

[DAF86]

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

I can't remember many game-winning shots (made or took) by Manu with the Spurs. The ones I remember are:

Made: Timberwolves, Milwaukee, Memphis and Phoenix last season.

Missed: New Jersey in the 2003 finals and the lay-up against Detroit in 2005 where Duncan then had the tip-in to win it in game 5.

For a "closer" Manu doesn't have a lot of last second shots taken.

[j-money24]

Again, Kobe is a clutch shooter, he's just not the BEST shooter when it comes to hitting a game-winner.

In the years before, like from 2004 to like 2007 or 2008,Kobe tends to still shoot the game-winner even when he is double teamed or triple teamed, i use to see a lot of times where their is no way Kobe would make the shot when like multiple defenders are all over him but he still shoots it because he never use to trust his teammates when he had a bad team in those 3 seasons. But this season, Kobe has changed which is why i think he is leading the league in clutch time because when he is doubled, he always passes it to the open guy like Ariza, Fisher and others who have made made game-winner shots because of Kobe, but when he's not doubled, he kills his defender and makes the game-winner.

[Killakobe81]

I agree Duncan is more clutch problem is post play difficult to execute in game winning or tying situations
And i edit that list until he does it this year Duncan should be ahead of Lebron ...Duncan has the Phoenix shot, the Detroit tip-in and the fading jumper over shaq BEFORE Dfish's shot plus he murdered the league in the playoffs in the 99 post -season BUT for one last shot/play I take Manu over duncan ...

[DAF86]

I agree Duncan is more clutch problem is post play difficult to execute in game winning or tying situations
And i edit that list until he does it this year Duncan should be ahead of Lebron ...Duncan has the Phoenix shot, the Detroit tip-in and the fading jumper over shaq BEFORE Dfish's shot plus he murdered the league in the playoffs in the 99 post -season BUT for one last shot/play I take Manu over duncan ...

Tim missed that.

[timvp]

I can't remember many game-winning shots (made or took) by Manu with the Spurs. The ones I remember are:

Made: Timberwolves, Milwaukee, Memphis and Phoenix last season.

Missed: New Jersey in the 2003 finals and the lay-up against Detroit in 2005 where Duncan then had the tip-in to win it in game 5.

For a "closer" Manu doesn't have a lot of last second shots taken.

It's always easier to remember the makes. Manu had the missed layup after The Foul, for one.

I looked it up and Manu is 6-for-21 on game-winners. Parker is 6-for-16 :stirpot:

[DAF86]

It's always easier to remember the makes. Manu had the missed layup after The Foul, for one.

I looked it up and Manu is 6-for-21 on game-winners. Parker is 6-for-16 :stirpot:

I need to come clean, I didn't watch that game, that's why I didn't remember that :lol The game wasn't aired here in Argentina and my Internet connection went off for some reason, I can't express with words the rage I was feeling at that moment.

[timvp]

You, sir, are one lucky man. That game will always haunt because of the cakewalk to the championship that lied ahead.

The Amare-less Suns and the Heat?!?!!?1?!?!?! :smchode:

:depressed :depressed

[DAF86]

You, sir, are one lucky man. That game will always haunt because of the cakewalk to the championship that lied ahead.

The Amare-less Suns and the Heat?!?!!?1?!?!?! :smchode:

:depressed :depressed

I may not be here today if it wasn't for my shitty Internet connection. I'm pretty sure I'd have had a stroke after Manu's foul on Dirk.

[duncan228]

I may not be here today if it wasn't for my shitty Internet connection. I'm pretty sure I'd have had a stroke after Manu's foul on Dirk.

We're lucky the site is still here. SpursTalk had a stroke after that foul. :lol

[DAF86]

We're lucky the site is still here. SpursTalk had a stroke after that foul. :lol

:lol I don't even want to imagine the things that were said in this site during that time.

[Ice009]

Manu is another example of an extremely clutch player who isn't very good at game-winning shots. IIRC, he's sub-20% in the last handful of years. Again, great clutch player ... but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

Yeah well I've wanted Tim to take more game winners the last couple of seasons myself. Why doesn't he get the ball anymore on the last possession Timvp? What is the reason for it?

I'm pretty sure I read years ago, maybe it was 2003 or something that Jordan said at the end of the game he'd take Kobe to shoot at number 1 and TD at number 2. He said since Kobe is a guard it is hard to double team him and he can get any shot he wants. He also said that Tim can get any shot he wants too, but with a big man you can double team him and take him out of the game a little bit. Again don't take this as 100% accurate as I don't remember where I read it to validate it.

[VI_Massive]

but when it comes to one shot to win the game, I'd take Tim Duncan over him any day of the week. Not even close.

Problem with taking Timmy: like almost all bigs, he's an easy foul target because he's unreliable at the line.

And with regards to all the Team USA talk, IIRC, wasn't it D-Wade who carried Team USA down the stretch of that Spain game?

[Obstructed_View]

And with regards to all the Team USA talk, IIRC, wasn't it D-Wade who carried Team USA down the stretch of that Spain game?

Shh. Don't bring facts into it. Kobe's the most cluchablest player ever. Go Mamba!

[Killakobe81]

Yeah well I've wanted Tim to take more game winners the last couple of seasons myself. Why doesn't he get the ball anymore on the last possession Timvp? What is the reason for it?

I'm pretty sure I read years ago, maybe it was 2003 or something that Jordan said at the end of the game he'd take Kobe to shoot at number 1 and TD at number 2. He said since Kobe is a guard it is hard to double team him and he can get any shot he wants. He also said that Tim can get any shot he wants too, but with a big man you can double team him and take him out of the game a little bit. Again don't take this as 100% accurate as I don't remember where I read it to validate it.

I read this somewhere as well and that was my point MJ knows more than the folks here so i gues I do too.Not being a homer but you take theproven player not the stat guy ...2 points here
In baseball Im sure there are guys that have better clutch stast then Jeter. Hell Pedroia and Rollins may have better NUMBERS ...but if it was 9th inning 7 game of a WS I want Jeter at the plate. Numbers dont mean ish that guy has big balls and has done it more than anyone else ...last few years he has not done so well in the ALDS but if my season depended on it ...I take Jeter. Just like in NFL i take brady even though numbers may point to ben or Eli

Last point here Big Baby is 100% on game winners in the playoffs yet I could live with him shooting over ray or Pierce. Who did Doc design the play for ? pierce cus hez proven but numbers would say allen or now ...Davis stats can be manipulated and never tell the whole story

[Killakobe81]

Shh. Don't bring facts into it. Kobe's the most cluchablest player ever. Go Mamba!

again foolish talk because TimVP's original point was last second shots read more closely ...

You say Lakers fans are blind go to lakersground plenty dislike Kobe, especiallythe Shaq lovers ...

But you let your hatred for kobe blind you as well ...

[Ice009]

I read this somewhere as well and that was my point MJ knows more than the folks here so i gues I do too.Not being a homer but you take theproven player not the stat guy ...2 points here
In baseball Im sure there are guys that have better clutch stast then Jeter. Hell Pedroia and Rollins may have better NUMBERS ...but if it was 9th inning 7 game of a WS I want Jeter at the plate. Numbers dont mean ish that guy has big balls and has done it more than anyone else ...last few years he has not done so well in the ALDS but if my season depended on it ...I take Jeter. Just like in NFL i take brady even though numbers may point to ben or Eli

Last point here Big Baby is 100% on game winners in the playoffs yet I could live with him shooting over ray or Pierce. Who did Doc design the play for ? pierce cus hez proven but numbers would say allen or now ...Davis stats can be manipulated and never tell the whole story

Good to see someone else read it too.

I pretty much agreed with what MJ said as he explained it very well.

Personally if it was me calling the plays I would give the ball to Tim a lot more on last possession plays to win the game.

[VI_Massive]

Personally if it was me calling the plays I would give the ball to Tim a lot more on last possession plays to win the game.

I just don't see how you can call plays like that for a guy who doesn't shoot well from the line. Its the only flaw in his game.

[Ice009]

I just don't see how you can call plays like that for a guy who doesn't shoot well from the line. Its the only flaw in his game.

I understand what you are saying, but I still think TD is a better bet than most.

I'd rather Tim shoot than Bonner or Finley.

[VI_Massive]

I understand what you are saying, but I still think TD is a better bet than most.

I'd rather Tim shoot than Bonner or Finley.

Hey, Finley has hit some big clutch shots for SA. Most recently the last regular season game vs. NO. I don't think that's the part of his game most SA fans have a problem with.....

[Cry Havoc]

Exactly!! he has been clutch since college

You mean he's been clutch since high school, when he purposely played at half speed to let his team falter and get down big in the first half so he could lead them to a huge comeback win by the end of the game.

Also, Kobe's so clutch that his just just got dismantled by a Yaoless, T-Macless Rockets team. Wow. Now that's clutch!

[Obstructed_View]

again foolish talk because TimVP's original point was last second shots read more closely ...

You say Lakers fans are blind go to lakersground plenty dislike Kobe, especiallythe Shaq lovers ...

But you let your hatred for kobe blind you as well ...

No, I don't let my love for Kobe blind me. He's a great player, but he's not outstandingly clutch, he's not a great leader, he didn't carry the Olympic team, and he's not the best finisher in the game. A lot of folks like to make him out to be Jordan, but not for any other reason than the team he plays for. Case in point: You, who didn't even seem to know that Kobe went to the NBA right from high school (where he did in fact set up scenarios in the games so he could be the hero.)