Kenyon Martin foul on Dirk

[dav4463]

Somehow, I just knew Dirk was going to get bailed out and get free throws if it was anywhere close to a foul and it happened!

Notice TNT never did show a replay of the foul. I thought it was a good block in real time, but would like to at least see one replay.

Dirk got the call. It was a gift.

[ElNono]

The last 3 calls on Dirk were bullshit. But what else is new?
At least Dirk went out there and battled. Smokey shooting blanks at the end there pretty much sums up what Dirk has to deal with on a nightly basis.

[Ghazi]

Mavs deserved this win period. Nuggets got 3 free points on a bullshit flagrant and a technical not called on JR, and another 2 free points on bullshit technicals. And another 6 free points on bullshit JR Smith shots. then a few freebies off of fluke turnovers.

Seriously, Denver isn't that good. They're too over reliant on opponent mistakes for their "defense".

[iggypop123]

they call the touch fouls but ignore all the hand checks and shoving. go figure

[Spursfan092120]

Seriously, Denver isn't that good. They're too over reliant on opponent mistakes for their "defense".
Says the guy whose team is down 3-1 :lmao:lmao

[Ghazi]

Says the guy whose team is down 3-1 :lmao:lmao

It's one bad call and one shot away from being 2-2.

Denver isn't that good, they haven't even impressed me this series.

[01Snake]

It's one bad call and one shot away from being 2-2.

Denver isn't that good, they haven't even impressed me this series.

Is this guy for real?? ^^^^

[pauls931]

Doesn't matter now, but I completely missed that foul. No one was going to get away touching dirk tonight.

[Armando]

Mavs deserved this win period. Nuggets got 3 free points on a bullshit flagrant and a technical not called on JR, and another 2 free points on bullshit technicals. And another 6 free points on bullshit JR Smith shots. then a few freebies off of fluke turnovers.

Seriously, Denver isn't that good. They're too over reliant on opponent mistakes for their "defense".



So you want the kid to fall on Mavs players instead of hanging on the rim until they move?

[Obstructed_View]

Mavs deserved this win period. Nuggets got 3 free points on a bullshit flagrant and a technical not called on JR, and another 2 free points on bullshit technicals. And another 6 free points on bullshit JR Smith shots. then a few freebies off of fluke turnovers.

Seriously, Denver isn't that good. They're too over reliant on opponent mistakes for their "defense".

Both flagrants were deserved, and JR hung on the rim because it was unsafe to come down until his momentum came back. Have someone read you the rulebook.

[Basketballgirl25]

Mavs deserved this win period. Nuggets got 3 free points on a bullshit flagrant and a technical not called on JR, and another 2 free points on bullshit technicals. And another 6 free points on bullshit JR Smith shots. then a few freebies off of fluke turnovers.

Seriously, Denver isn't that good. They're too over reliant on opponent mistakes for their "defense".

Dallas might have deserved this win, but after the Martin foul how about Mav fans don't complain about losing in 2006 anymore and don't complain about refs either. Try to be better to Boston fans instead of worse:toast

[Armando]

mavs deserved this win period. Nuggets got 3 free points on a bullshit flagrant and a technical not called on jr, and another 2 free points on bullshit technicals. And another 6 free points on bullshit jr smith shots. Then a few freebies off of fluke turnovers.

Seriously, denver isn't that good. They're too over reliant on opponent mistakes for their "defense".



3-1

[JamStone]

Mavs earned it and Dirk finally was really assertive in the fourth quarter. But I don't get it. I know he's a great midrange shooter and that short fade-away is a shot he can make. But why not attack closer to the basket to seal the game. Up two points, that's the same shot he took to seal the game in game 3. You miss that and they have a chance to win. Try to draw contact and get closer to the rim for a higher percentage shot. You can't keep attempting those shots to seal a game.

[Ghazi]

Both flagrants were deserved, and JR hung on the rim because it was unsafe to come down until his momentum came back. Have someone read you the rulebook.

Shut the fuck up faggot.

[pauls931]

Both flagrants were deserved, and JR hung on the rim because it was unsafe to come down until his momentum came back. Have someone read you the rulebook.

we have a winnah

[Findog]

:cry :cry

[Ghazi]

3-1

9th place

[Armando]

Doesn't matter now, but I completely missed that foul. No one was going to get away touching dirk tonight.



Yeah I guess after what happen Game 3 the Mavs were going to get homecooking. Still BS

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I was waiting for TNT to play a replay of that last foul :lol Instead we got the commentators deflecting, the blatant phantom foul, with Dirk praise.

:td to the League with its consolation prizes... "well, we really fucked up your chances at keeping this series competitive, so we'll give you a chance to go out in 5 "

I hope Mavs force a game 7.

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry

[Armando]

9th place


2006
2007

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry :cry

[Ghazi]

Any of these Spurs fans bitch about the phantom foul that denied the guys in blue a championship?

Any of these Spurs fans bitch about the no call on Wright?

Does anyone even have a REPLAY? WAS it a phantom foul?

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

[SouthTexasRancher]

Dirk ate Martin's lunch tonight and had his desert as well. Once again KMart proves he is nothing more than a wimp. Duncan ate his breakfast, lunch and dinner for a decade. Karl should have suited up KMart's mom instead. Then she could have picked up a very satisfying Flagrant 2 Technical by going over to where the little bitch, Markie Cuban, was sitting and kicked him in the groin. Well hell, he ain't got no balls but, still a swift kick in the groin would make Markie cry again.

Nuggets close it out Weds. night in Denver and await the Rockets/Fakers winner before moving on the the NBA Finals to face and get beat by the Cavs.

[monosylab1k]

5PDuqk_DSMw

[Ghazi]

How do you post youtube links?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Mavs earned it and Dirk finally was really assertive in the fourth quarter. But I don't get it. I know he's a great midrange shooter and that short fade-away is a shot he can make. But why not attack closer to the basket to seal the game. Up two points, that's the same shot he took to seal the game in game 3. You miss that and they have a chance to win. Try to draw contact and get closer to the rim for a higher percentage shot. You can't keep attempting those shots to seal a game.

Go back to the commentatory on Barry foul last year on a youtube of the TNT replay, Chuck said the exact same thing about Dirk taking bad awkward shots when the game is on the line.

Dirk sucks at drawing contact on jumpshots. He thinks he's Larry Bird on those, clutch jumpers.

[Obstructed_View]

Dirk ate Martin's lunch all night, until the very end when he needed Steve Javie to bail his ass out. Making the determination that Dirk was fouled by seeing that his jumper wasn't anywhere close to the rim isn't really a good indicator, at least in the last minute of a big game.

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry

[Ghazi]

cancels out JR Smiths 6 bailout points IMO.

[Findog]

JR Smith was fucking ridiculous.

[Armando]

Dirk ate Martin's lunch all night, until the very end when he needed Steve Javie to bail his ass out. Making the determination that Dirk was fouled by seeing that his jumper wasn't anywhere close to the rim isn't really a good indicator, at least in the last minute of a big game.



Usually if no replay is shown then it was a phantom call.

[baseline bum]

It's one bad call and one shot away from being 2-2.

Denver isn't that good, they haven't even impressed me this series.

It's also one bad call from possibly being 4-0.

[Armando]

Cuban won't be at Game 5

[Obstructed_View]

cancels out JR Smiths 6 bailout points IMO.

If the Mavs hadn't been stupid the entire game, they win it going away. Completely pointless technicals and bad flagrant fouls nearly cost them their season. It's too bad that they become a team of mutton-heads as soon as the pressure goes up. Seriously, when the Denver Nuggets are doing a better job of keeping their cool in a big game you have problems to address.

And why the hell isn't Jason Kidd handling the ball at the end of these games? He's the only one on the entire team who's clutch. If the NBA hadn't decided to give the Mavs a make-up call there at the end, Mavs fans would probably be questioning another Dirk fadeaway as time was running out as the last shot of the season.

[Basketballgirl25]

Denver isn't that good, they haven't even impressed me this series.

I know what you mean Dallas isn't that good either so we both aggree this series isn't to impressing, now Celtics vs Magic is impressing and fun to watch the west has been so boring this season, I thought it would be better

[Basketballgirl25]

Cuban won't be at Game 5

how do you know?:lol

[Armando]

how do you know?:lol



TNT just reported :lol

[Ghazi]

If the Mavs hadn't been stupid the entire game, they win it going away. Completely pointless technicals and bad flagrant fouls nearly cost them their season. It's too bad that they become a team of mutton-heads as soon as the pressure goes up. Seriously, when the Denver Nuggets are doing a better job of keeping their cool in a big game you have problems to address.

And why the hell isn't Jason Kidd handling the ball at the end of these games? He's the only one on the entire team who's clutch. If the NBA hadn't decided to give the Mavs a make-up call there at the end, Mavs fans would probably be questioning another Dirk fadeaway as time was running out as the last shot of the season.

That's why Denver isn't that good. The've capitalized on Dallas stupidity in Games 1, 2 , and 4.

LA would have no problems. I can't be the only one who is seeing this (Denver isn't that good).

[monosylab1k]

5PDuqk_DSMw

[Obstructed_View]

They've lost two games to Dallas. How good can they be?

[dav4463]

Apparently Cuban has to accept some type of "award" somewhere. Yeah, I really believe the OWNER of a team in an elimination game would not be able to get out of it to go to HIS TEAM'S possible final game!

Looks like he fears for his safety and is afraid to set foot in the Denver arena!

Cuban talks trash, but runs scared.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

They've lost two games to Dallas. How good can they be?

Denver doesn't play defense. They are crazily talented, but they can fold in an instant. . . because outside of Billups, they are stupid.

[dirk4mvp]

hmm, so you faggots want to find every loophole from last game to bail the Nuggets out, but when Dirk takes a steamy hot shit on the Nuggets, it was the refs fault. Bunch of hypocritical motherfuckers on spurstalk.

[Randy]

hmm, so you faggots want to find every loophole from last game to bail the Nuggets out, but when Dirk takes a steamy hot shit on the Nuggets, it was the refs fault. Bunch of hypocritical motherfuckers on spurstalk.
pow!

[Basketballgirl25]

That's why Denver isn't that good. The've capitalized on Dallas stupidity in Games 1, 2 , and 4.

LA would have no problems. I can't be the only one who is seeing this (Denver isn't that good).

I see LA will have no problems with Denver, but Denver is better then Dallas so either way both teams will get beat by Lakers

[Basketballgirl25]

hmm, so you faggots want to find every loophole from last game to bail the Nuggets out, but when Dirk takes a steamy hot shit on the Nuggets, it was the refs fault. Bunch of hypocritical motherfuckers on spurstalk.

wasn't it the refs fault Dallas lost all the games they lost this season, I know I always hear Dallas fans complaining about refs. If Dallas fans can complain others can as well. Only team fans I really don't hear complain are Nets and Knicks those fans usually just complain about players. Dallas fans I hear complain the most

[Obstructed_View]

hmm, so you faggots want to find every loophole from last game to bail the Nuggets out, but when Dirk takes a steamy hot shit on the Nuggets, it was the refs fault. Bunch of hypocritical motherfuckers on spurstalk.

So getting bailed out on an airball when is shot was blocked is clutch? The only steamy hot shit was in Dirk's pants when he realized he was going to have to try to make a play to win the game. Fortunately for him, Steve Javie was there for the delayed-whistle rescue.

[dirk4mvp]

Cry all you want. He got fouled, stepped up and hit some big free throws. Who the fuck cares or wants to hear you faggots cry over this? Why weren't you criticizing the refs last game?

[Randy]

Cry all you want. He got fouled, stepped up and hit some big free throws. Who the fuck cares or wants to hear you faggots cry over this? Why weren't you criticizing the refs last game?
powpow!

[Basketballgirl25]

Cry all you want. He got fouled, stepped up and hit some big free throws. Who the fuck cares or wants to hear you faggots cry over this? Why weren't you criticizing the refs last game?

I know I think the refs were bad last game, but this game made up for that so Dallas fans got to complain and now that don't anymore, got that BUDDY:toast:toast:toast:toast:whine

[Obstructed_View]

Cry all you want. He missed the shot, got bailed out, stepped up and hit some big free throws. Who the fuck cares or wants to hear you faggots cry over this? Why weren't you criticizing the refs last game?

Fixed.

[Ghazi]

Does anyone even have the replay of the play?

I can't tell if it was a phantom foul. dont remember play.

it was a late whistle though.

[dirk4mvp]

Mavs lose = the refs got it right!

Mavs win = they were bailed out!

[dirk4mvp]

:cry :cry :cry

[dirk4mvp]

Does anyone even have the replay of the play?

I can't tell if it was a phantom foul. dont remember play.

it was a late whistle though.

Nah, it was a good call. I wouldn't hold your breath if you're expecting the league to openly admit a fuck up like last game, since it wasn't.

[GSH]

they call the touch fouls but ignore all the hand checks and shoving. go figure


Hand checks, moving screens, clear-outs in the lane, over the back on rebounds... I don't understand the damn game anymore. Seriously, about half the time I can't find any connection between the calls (and no-calls) and what's happening on the floor. And now you have to try and figure out what is a flagrant and what isn't - and that probably makes the least sense of all.

I'm still a Spurs fan, but I can honestly say that I am approaching the point where I am not an NBA fan. It's kind of hard to reconcile those two, but I'm getting tired of watching something that feels more like the WWF than the game of basketball.

Really what it reminds me of is those gymnastic floor exercises in the Olympics, where there's a lot of dancing around, but it's all just a set-up for a few exciting athletic moves. And the judges are shamelessly biased in favor of one team.

But for the guy bitching about that one call - there were plenty to go around. Just before that one, on the other end, Nowitzki was trying to get to a long rebound, and K-Mart damn near pulled his arm out of socket holding him back. It was out in the open, and an official was standing nearby. There's no way he could have missed it. Anybody who wants to get pissed off about the officiating has all the evidence they need. The officiating this whole season has been piss-poor. But the playoffs have taken that to a totally new level.

[Obstructed_View]

Does anyone even have the replay of the play?

I can't tell if it was a phantom foul. dont remember play.

it was a late whistle though.

Dirk cried as soon as the shot went up and Javie watched the ball to see if it was going in. As you mentioned, he blew the whistle about the time the ball hit the ground.

[dav4463]

It is a very hard game to officiate. The official must make a split second decision while at the same time, understanding the flow of the game, the intent of the play, the situation, etc., etc.... A foul is not always a foul believe it or not.

If you think every foul should be called, then it would be a crappy game. If your guy steals the ball and while throwing it to a wide open teammate for a dunk...you don't want the ref calling a slight slap to the arm of your guy making the pass. You want him to let it go so you get the easy dunk.

Sometimes players get calls, sometimes they don't. Refs have to decide what to call in the heat of the moment.

Refs are taught to have a late whistle. You have to "see the whole play" to see if a foul call makes sense. If a pass goes errant because of a foul....late whistle is needed. If the pass goes where it was intended to go....it is OK to pass on the foul call.

It is a tough job and a thankless job.

At the NBA level, it is near impossible. The players are so skilled and so physical. There is actually a foul just about every time down court if you want to get technical. The refs job is to keep it as fair as possible and call that which affects the play. Also, refs have to tighten up when things get heated and let them play when they can or when the players show them that they want to play basketball instead of push and shove.

[Jace]

I hate it when they don't show a replay on a critical play in the game or only show one from a bad angle.

[duncan228]

How do you post youtube links?

Tutorial on how to embed youtube here (post #2):

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99116

[GSH]

At the NBA level, it is near impossible. The players are so skilled and so physical. There is actually a foul just about every time down court if you want to get technical. The refs job is to keep it as fair as possible and call that which affects the play. Also, refs have to tighten up when things get heated and let them play when they can or when the players show them that they want to play basketball instead of push and shove.




There are some truths in what you're saying, but a lot of it is also horseshit. I know you didn't invent it - it's a well-worn excuse. But it's a coat of whitewash that gets poured over an awful lot of poop-stains. It's an inescapable fact that rookies don't get the same "respect" as veterans when it comes to foul calls. And there are superstar players who get way more than their fair share of that same "respect" from the referees. And whether you like it or not, that filters down to their respective teams.

I don't think anybody expects (or wants) every little foul to be called. But let's start with what goes on in the paint. That's a small enough area for the refs to focus on. I've got a shitpile of clips of guys standing in the paint for 7-8 seconds, not even pretending to be guarding anyone. How the hell does that happen, with an NBA-level ref on the spot? I can tell you that certain players are much more likely to get by with it than others, and they're not the ones earning the vet minimum.

I get sick of watching the same group of refs call ticky-tac fouls when one guy goes into the paint, and on the other end watch a mugging without blinking. When a player goes into the paint, it's a point of focus for the refs - they can't "not see" what happens. And when a guy with hands the size of dinner plates takes the ball up with both hands, and the ball suddenly goes flying, and you can clearly see that the defender didn't get a hand on the ball? There's a foul there. Every time. That guy didn't just drop a ball that fits his hands like a big grapefruit fits yours. I watched that happen in one of the Houston-Laker games so many times it made me want to puke.

Too often these NBA refs directly control the ebb and flow of games. They kill momentum and allow teams back into the game. They call some fouls "on the floor" and give shooting fouls on the other end. They suddenly call 3-seconds, or moving screens, and kill the offense of one team, possession after possession. As if a team that has been operating like a machine for 30 minutes suddenly becomes a bunch of bumbling idiots.

Yeah it's a tough game to call. And they get paid a lot of fucking money to do it. This season has been the worst, most inconsistent I have ever seen. And I'm not talking about Spurs games... I'm talking about the whole league.

[dav4463]

I didn't say they did a great job! I just said it was a really hard game to officiate! I wouldn't want to do it!

As for superstars getting calls, I can kind of see how this happens. I'm not excusing it, but the refs are human.

As a high school referee (admittedly way below NBA level !), we get to know some of the players and learn their pet moves, get a feel for their ability, etc.... NBA refs see the same guys every night and do a lot more research on players than we could ever do. They know who the best players are and frequently (maybe unfairly) give them the benefit of doubt on close calls.

Even in high school games where we know a certain player is all-state and being guarded by a guy who isn't known at all....and there is a close call.....in the back of my mind....I'm thinking...."did I miss that call?" Did the all-state player foul or not? Subconsciously you expect the better players to make plays and they may get the benefit of doubt on a close call. I try not to do it, but you can tell who the better players are after about 5 minutes on the court.

Player's reputations do follow them as well. If we are briefed in the pre-game that one of the players has been involved in two fights this season and plays a very rough game.....you can bet special attention will be given to this player! Maybe it is a rival game and we know it needs to be called tight early so it never gets out of hand......that is a part of officiating. If we know one coach likes to bully younger less experienced officials....we know not to take anything he says personally. He is testing us. Give him one warning, he'll be OK. If we know the coach is just a hothead....be prepared to handle it.

If a player or coach really pisses me off during a game by saying or doing something out of line......next time there is a close call......chances are it will go against them! It may not be right, but it is human nature. I'm sure it happens in the NBA.

As for the ebb and flow of games....If I look up at the scoreboard and I see the home team has 2 fouls and the visitor has been whistled 10 times.....in the back of my mind.....I start kind of "looking" for a few fouls on the home team. It's not to even things up, which shouldn't be done since some teams foul more than others....but you don't want one team with 22 fouls and another with 3 either! You can come up with something to kind of "even it up" without actually "evening it up!"....if you can understand that....it is hard to explain.

I'm just saying... I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to officiate an NBA game.

[dav4463]

Here is another way to look at it.

Referees get paid a lot of money. They shouldn't miss calls.

Well, Tim Duncan gets paid a lot of money. He shouldn't miss free throws.

Nobody's perfect.

[icem]

i wish SOMEONE would show some kind of replay because in live action it looked like he didn't even get touched.... denver was about to come down court and break the mavs hearts once again.

[GSH]

I didn't say they did a great job! I just said it was a really hard game to officiate! I wouldn't want to do it!

As for superstars getting calls, I can kind of see how this happens. I'm not excusing it, but the refs are human.

As a high school referee (admittedly way below NBA level !), we get to know some of the players and learn their pet moves, get a feel for their ability, etc.... NBA refs see the same guys every night and do a lot more research on players than we could ever do. They know who the best players are and frequently (maybe unfairly) give them the benefit of doubt on close calls.




You've actually done it - that carries a lot of weight and respect. I'll man up and say that I never have.

I have a couple of good friends that are NCAA refs. We've dented a bottle of Crown or two while discussing this subject. The best I can say is that they have both become... skeptical?... of the commercial influence on the state of play in the NBA.

It is a thankless, difficult job. And you know what a close fraternity it is, because refs are constantly getting pounded from both sides. (One of my favorite sayings, "How can we be biased against both teams at the same time?") So you can probably appreciate how difficult it is for one referee to question another, at any level. The phrase I remember most was (more or less) "They started down a slippery slope a long time ago." The implication was that they have slid further along that path.

I know the game well enough not to expect perfection, or even perfect consistency. But when the game becomes too inconsistent, it loses its integrity. The NBA has "guided" its referees over the years, in order to encourage certain styles of play. And highlight reels sell tickets and advertising. If that's not a slippery slope, I don't know what is.

[dav4463]

Slippery slope? ....David Stern? You want to keep your job?

I still can't buy that because I know he didn't want the Spurs and Pistons to win championships!

It sure does seem slanted towards the big-market teams though doesn't it?

The rules were changed to hurt guys like Bowen. I think that sucks. The league wants the superstars to be able to drive to the basket more. I hate that. It favors teams who aren't good on defense. The Spurs and Pistons were disadvantaged by the rule changes.

I would like to think that it's on the up and up, but that Stern fellow is one slimy character!

[Basketballgirl25]

Mavs lose = the refs got it right!

Mavs win = they were bailed out!

I thought Mavs should have lost last night and won the other game, but I know Mavs fans think a different way

Mavs loses=the refs hate them and the NBA hates them

Nuggets win=the refs didn't get it right

don't be blaming other fans for doing the same if mav fans do it as well:whine:whine:whine

[Rogue]

I thought Mavs should have lost last night and won the other game, but I know Mavs fans think a different way

Mavs loses=the refs hate them and the NBA hates them

Nuggets win=the refs didn't get it right

don't be blaming other fans for doing the same if mav fans do it as well:whine:whine:whine
usted un hija de 1,000 perras, tan usted es un puta tambien.

[pauls931]

Just out of morbid curiousity was there a link posted anywhere to that clip? I was side tracked posting here at the time. Actually I was halfway watching it but not concentrating enough to see the foul. I just saw dirk fade on a jumper with kenyon in front of him, the shot miss, then the whistle blow, I think...

[to21]

3-1 :cheer

[endrity]

Hand checks, moving screens, clear-outs in the lane, over the back on rebounds... I don't understand the damn game anymore. Seriously, about half the time I can't find any connection between the calls (and no-calls) and what's happening on the floor. And now you have to try and figure out what is a flagrant and what isn't - and that probably makes the least sense of all.

I'm still a Spurs fan, but I can honestly say that I am approaching the point where I am not an NBA fan. It's kind of hard to reconcile those two, but I'm getting tired of watching something that feels more like the WWF than the game of basketball.

Really what it reminds me of is those gymnastic floor exercises in the Olympics, where there's a lot of dancing around, but it's all just a set-up for a few exciting athletic moves. And the judges are shamelessly biased in favor of one team.

But for the guy bitching about that one call - there were plenty to go around. Just before that one, on the other end, Nowitzki was trying to get to a long rebound, and K-Mart damn near pulled his arm out of socket holding him back. It was out in the open, and an official was standing nearby. There's no way he could have missed it. Anybody who wants to get pissed off about the officiating has all the evidence they need. The officiating this whole season has been piss-poor. But the playoffs have taken that to a totally new level.

+100000

This is the problem, we don't know what is and what isn't a foul anymore in the league. I see big man gettin hacked on the lane and nothing called, and then someone whispers something on Wade or LeBron and it's a foul. There is an inconsitency, from night to night, from player to player, from play to play, that makes it very hard to be objective about the game anymore.

Yes Dirk probably got bailed out, but yes he could have gotten calls before that he didn't and at the end of the day how often do you see LeBron or Kobe drive, miss, and then get a foul called on them????

[to21]

The mere fact we are even discussing the refs after every game is a clear sign.

[Biggems]

It's one bad call and one shot away from being 2-2.

Denver isn't that good, they haven't even impressed me this series.

one birdman away from bringing out the brooms.....

what ifs are fun, but in the end, they are just what ifs.....and hold no water or substance worth a shit

[pauls931]

Hand checks, moving screens, clear-outs in the lane, over the back on rebounds... I don't understand the damn game anymore. Seriously, about half the time I can't find any connection between the calls (and no-calls) and what's happening on the floor. And now you have to try and figure out what is a flagrant and what isn't - and that probably makes the least sense of all.

I'm still a Spurs fan, but I can honestly say that I am approaching the point where I am not an NBA fan. It's kind of hard to reconcile those two, but I'm getting tired of watching something that feels more like the WWF than the game of basketball.

Really what it reminds me of is those gymnastic floor exercises in the Olympics, where there's a lot of dancing around, but it's all just a set-up for a few exciting athletic moves. And the judges are shamelessly biased in favor of one team.

But for the guy bitching about that one call - there were plenty to go around. Just before that one, on the other end, Nowitzki was trying to get to a long rebound, and K-Mart damn near pulled his arm out of socket holding him back. It was out in the open, and an official was standing nearby. There's no way he could have missed it. Anybody who wants to get pissed off about the officiating has all the evidence they need. The officiating this whole season has been piss-poor. But the playoffs have taken that to a totally new level.

I completely agree on hand checking. A few years back you hand check you get a foul. Before that you could beat the hell out of players. Now I see hand checking, arm bars, etc and sometimes a foul is called, sometimes it's not. You know it's bad when the whistle blows and both teams stop and look at the ref to see which way it goes.

Charges are also a problem. I see a lot of players (and yes my beloved nash) getting calls when I don't think they're completely set. At least they have the circle in the key to keep that one from being a complete joke.

[jmanu20]

[quote=Ghazi;3386306]It's one correctly committed intentional foul and one shot away from being 2-2.

Denver is that good, they have a star who is actually clutch. quote]

FIXED.

[monosylab1k]

[quote=Ghazi;3386306]It's one correctly committed intentional foul and one shot away from being 2-2.

Denver is that good, they have a star who is actually clutch. quote]

FIXED.

quote fail

[Obstructed_View]

5PDuqk_DSMw

[hater]

worst call of the playoffs. I am glad mavs are still in it but they should have won fair and square and not resorted to getting BS calls.

[jag]

Call me crazy...but it looked like Kenyon Martin got hand. If he got all ball, there's no doubt in my mind everyone in the AAC would have heard about it during his ensuing tantrum.

That being said, it was an extremely late call which probably means Javie waited to see where the shot actually went...mav fan can't expect to get those calls when your star is taking fade away 20 footers. You earn those calls by being aggressive and taking it to the hole. That's what makes it a "bail out" call.

Dirk is a beast and he deserved to get that win...up until he decided to take a vagina-like shot for all the marbles.

[Morg1411]

The call was bullshit.

The no-call in Game 3 was bullshit.

2 bullshits = lots of bullshit.

Denver closes out in Game 5, series over, so who gives a fuck?

[Basketballgirl25]

The call was bullshit.

The no-call in Game 3 was bullshit.

2 bullshits = lots of bullshit.

Denver closes out in Game 5, series over, so who gives a fuck?

:toast

[poop]

what a fucking travesty this game was. worst officiating this year, it reminded me of the '06 spurs/Mavs series in which dallas's 'wins' were simply the reslut of dirk being gifted a million freethrows. literally half his points came at the freethrow line. he shoots 11 FT in the last 6 minutes, ALL of them coming on phantom or ticky-tack nothing fouls.

NOBODY IN THE NBA GET MORE PHANTOM CALLS THAN DIRK NOWITZKI.

i dont get it, everyone in nba history who draws lots of fouls does so because they are either deep post players who get the ball right near the rim, or because they are slashers who make drives to the rim. bit Dirk is a fucking 7-foot perimeter shooter, and he gets more calls than ANYONE. he just fucking stands there and shoots and if he misses, he gets a BS whistle (usually late) 99% of the time.

Dallas got a gift tonight. in fact, i wont even acknowledge this BS game. Congrats Denver on your sweep of the Mavs!

[sribb43]

:cry:cry:cry

[poop]

nobody gets more phantom calls than Dirk.

all your playoff wins are the result of gift freethrows.

[JoseJuanJesusBarea]

Who is San Antonio playing in round 2? Have you guys moved on yet?

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry

[LakeShow]

Dirk cried as soon as the shot went up and Javie watched the ball to see if it was going in. As you mentioned, he blew the whistle about the time the ball hit the ground.

+1

that is exactly what I saw. I wish someone had a clip of that play, I didn't see a foul in realtime.

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry

[poop]

how does it feel to be swept Mavs fans?

[Morg1411]

:jack:jack:jack

[FromWayDowntown]

It is funny that many Mavs' fans complaints about officiating are always justified as entirely principled, but if anyone dares say that his team got hosed by officials in a game against the Mavs, the same chorus shouts down the "whiner."

[pauls931]

Dirk cried as soon as the shot went up and Javie watched the ball to see if it was going in. As you mentioned, he blew the whistle about the time the ball hit the ground.

Well, about 33% of fouls called on shots go that way. The instant the official realized the shot's not going in they blow.

[lurker]

It is funny that many Mavs' fans complaints about officiating are always justified as entirely principled, but if anyone dares say that his team got hosed by officials in a game against the Mavs, the same chorus shouts down the "whiner."
You just described every fan base in the NBA.

[Findog]

It is funny that many Mavs' fans complaints about officiating are always justified as entirely principled, but if anyone dares say that his team got hosed by officials in a game against the Mavs, the same chorus shouts down the "whiner."

That's not what's going on here. There have been several calls going against both teams in this series. If Dallas had managed to win G3, the Nuggets would've justifiably been pissed at how all of their bigs were in foul trouble.

Some of your fellow Spurs fans are just butthurt over their first-round elimination to a bitter rival, and they're letting it show.

[mavs>spurs2]

2-2, faggots

[FromWayDowntown]

That's not what's going on here. There have been several calls going against both teams in this series. If Dallas had managed to win G3, the Nuggets would've justifiably been pissed at how all of their bigs were in foul trouble.

Some of your fellow Spurs fans are just butthurt over their first-round elimination to a bitter rival, and they're letting it show.

That may not be what's going on with you, but it's certainly been true of many of your brethren.

It is what it is. I just think it's funny that so many Mavs fans go out of there way to admonish Spurs fans who whine about officiating -- no matter how principled and valid the complaints might be -- only to then turn around and bitch about officiating and maintain that such complaints are reasonable because they're only bitching about how crappy officiating has been in general (but mostly when it hoses the Mavericks)

[poop]

4-0, faggots

[Obstructed_View]

That may not be what's going on with you, but it's certainly been true of many of your brethren.

It is what it is. I just think it's funny that so many Mavs fans go out of there way to admonish Spurs fans who whine about officiating -- no matter how principled and valid the complaints might be -- only to then turn around and bitch about officiating and maintain that such complaints are reasonable because they're only bitching about how crappy officiating has been in general (but mostly when it hoses the Mavericks)

Findog and Mono would rather lead the charge to shout people down who dare to have an opinion on this forum, which they somehow think belongs to them just because they shit on virtually every thread whenever they choose. Every other Mavfan drops into lock step with them because it's easier to call someone a faggot than it is to discuss basketball. As a result, some of us really enjoy watching them continue to suffer, and the bail out call for Dirk on yet another missed fadeaway jumper in crunchtime just prolongs the agony for them. I for one am enjoying it immensely.

[JoseJuanJesusBarea]

It is funny that many Mavs' fans complaints about officiating are always justified as entirely principled, but if anyone dares say that his team got hosed by officials in a game against the Mavs, the same chorus shouts down the "whiner."

Oh God, really? So what you're saying is that the Mavs fanbase is like.. um... EVERY OTHER FANBASE IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS? Oh man, they should of had you on TNT last night providing commentary instead of that other dude. I mean, that little nugget of wisdom you just dropped is simply incredible.

[icem]

surely SOMEONE captured the game right ????? the fact that they refused to show a replay, even in the postgame show really makes me want to see this play again.

[layupdrill]

Game 5 gonna be ugly in Denver

[Morg1411]

Game 5 gonna be ugly in Denver

I can't wait. Too bad Cuban decided to puss out.

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh God, really? So what you're saying is that the Mavs fanbase is like.. um... EVERY OTHER FANBASE IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS? Oh man, they should of had you on TNT last night providing commentary instead of that other dude. I mean, that little nugget of wisdom you just dropped is simply incredible.

Sure -- just like everyone else, only far more disdainful of those who are so much like they are.

Seriously. I've been here through a lot and I've rarely seen a group of fans be more certain of the fact that their team is being screwed by officials and, yet, less willing to listen to others who believe the same of their own teams.

[JoseJuanJesusBarea]

Sure -- just like everyone else, only far more disdainful of those who are so much like they are.

Seriously. I've been here through a lot and I've rarely seen a group of fans be more certain of the fact that their team is being screwed by officials and, yet, less willing to listen to others who believe the same of their own teams.

Well it's a good thing the collection of trolls here at SpursTalk provides you with a valid representation of the collective Mavericks fanbase.

Maybe Mavs fans are a little hesitant to give a shit about a foul on Dirk that may or may not have been phantom if they didn't see the end of game 3 just two nights before? Genius. I mean, does anyone even have a shot of the foul, or are you all still just bitter that this Mavs team on the verge of a potential 4-1 exit also demolished your Spurs 4-1? That's the only thing I can think of.

Either way you're still sitting here whining about Mavs fans doing something that every fanbase in sports does.

[Findog]

Findog and Mono would rather lead the charge to shout people down who dare to have an opinion on this forum, which they somehow think belongs to them just because they shit on virtually every thread whenever they choose.

How am I "shouting you down?" Am I preventing you from posting? I get it, you don't like the Mavs; you have your Nuggets cap on for this series. This is simply a case where you've developed a real Aspergers-like tendency lately of going out of your way to shit on anything Mavs-related. I will not try to prevent you from posting. I will not "shout you down." I will and have mocked your crybaby routine. Feel free to mock me in return. I believe that's called message board give and take.



Every other Mavfan drops into lock step with them because it's easier to call someone a faggot than it is to discuss basketball.

Have I called you a faggot? One can't discuss the Mavericks with you, you've let your antipathy get in the way of being able to have any kind of rational discussion. You're a Spurs fan, you wish nothing but L's on my team, I can deal with that. But why are you complaining about your "shabby treatment" and what is being dished at you when you post stuff like this?



As a result, some of us really enjoy watching them continue to suffer, and the bail out call for Dirk on yet another missed fadeaway jumper in crunchtime just prolongs the agony for them. I for one am enjoying it immensely.

[Holmes_Fans]

Is there a video of the foul? I was at the game and don't ever look at the video screen.

[FromWayDowntown]

Well it's a good thing the collection of trolls here at SpursTalk provides you with a valid representation of the collective Mavericks fanbase.

Maybe Mavs fans are a little hesitant to give a shit about a foul on Dirk that may or may not have been phantom if they didn't see the end of game 3 just two nights before? Genius. I mean, does anyone even have a shot of the foul, or are you all still just bitter that this Mavs team on the verge of a potential 4-1 exit also demolished your Spurs 4-1? That's the only thing I can think of.

Either way you're still sitting here whining about Mavs fans doing something that every fanbase in sports does.

I'm not talking about the foul call at the end of Game 4 in particular. My comments here have all been general in nature.

I am, however, talking about the incessant whining from Mavs fans who've: (1) been here for a long time; and (2) aren't treated by other Mavs fans as trolls. Among that group, there is a very large number who are rabid about calling out the whining of other fan groups when issues of officiating are brought up, but who complain non-stop about the unfair officiating they believe to be visited upon the Mavericks. This thread is hardly alone in showing that duplicity. And I think it's interesting that the duplicity comes most vehemently from Mavericks fans. That's all. Nobody is as quick to pile on officiating (or to remain on it after 2006?). And, curiously, nobody else is as strident in calling out those who pile on officiating.

That's my point. It doesn't matter in particular that it's Mavericks fans. It could be Bobcats fans, and I'd make the same point.

I don't have any problem with the fact that the Spurs lost to the Mavericks. It was pretty obvious going into that series that the Spurs would be extremely fortunate to win and that they weren't close to being an elite team once the playoffs rolled around. I've made those points and given the Mavs plenty of respect for beating the Spurs, so you can quit with this "butthurt Spurs fan" canard in talking to me.

[mavs>spurs2]

I don't care what anyone says, we SHOULD RIGHTFULLY be tied 2-2 and could very easily be up 3-1, but we got beat the fuck up in game one. As bad as the ending to game 3 was, I think people forget that game 1 was a lot worse. I know we wouldn't beat L.A. or Cleveland, but this kind of thing ruins the integrity of the game. No one wants to see a bunch of thugs and murderers cheat their way into the WCF.

[Morg1411]

I don't care what anyone says, we SHOULD RIGHTFULLY be tied 2-2 and could very easily be up 3-1, but we got beat the fuck up in game one. As bad as the ending to game 3 was, I think people forget that game 1 was a lot worse. I know we wouldn't beat L.A. or Cleveland, but this kind of thing ruins the integrity of the game. No one wants to see a bunch of thugs and murderers cheat their way into the WCF.

I do. Fuck the Mavs. :p:

[poop]

I don't care what anyone says, we SHOULD RIGHTFULLY be tied 2-2 and could very easily be up 3-1, but we got beat the fuck up in game one. As bad as the ending to game 3 was, I think people forget that game 1 was a lot worse. I know we wouldn't beat L.A. or Cleveland, but this kind of thing ruins the integrity of the game. No one wants to see a bunch of thugs and murderers cheat their way into the WCF.

Mavs fans = beyond words:lol

[Basketballgirl25]

I don't care what anyone says, we SHOULD RIGHTFULLY be tied 2-2 and could very easily be up 3-1, but we got beat the fuck up in game one. As bad as the ending to game 3 was, I think people forget that game 1 was a lot worse. I know we wouldn't beat L.A. or Cleveland, but this kind of thing ruins the integrity of the game. No one wants to see a bunch of thugs and murderers cheat their way into the WCF.

I'd love to see Nuggets in the WCF. It would be great to see Martin there been a fan of his since he first became a Net. And Martin isn't a thug or murderer, Dallas fans are just mad Dallas is losing, heck I'm sure Kidd is out there thinking when he hears fans call anyone call Martin a thug "These fans are stupid, Martin is a good player I was pissed when the Nets let him go" and I am actually not lying, Kidd was pissed when Martin went to Denver so you know Kidd respects him:toast:toast:toast

[Spurminator]

Hand checks, moving screens, clear-outs in the lane, over the back on rebounds... I don't understand the damn game anymore. Seriously, about half the time I can't find any connection between the calls (and no-calls) and what's happening on the floor. And now you have to try and figure out what is a flagrant and what isn't - and that probably makes the least sense of all.

I'm still a Spurs fan, but I can honestly say that I am approaching the point where I am not an NBA fan. It's kind of hard to reconcile those two, but I'm getting tired of watching something that feels more like the WWF than the game of basketball.

Really what it reminds me of is those gymnastic floor exercises in the Olympics, where there's a lot of dancing around, but it's all just a set-up for a few exciting athletic moves. And the judges are shamelessly biased in favor of one team.

But for the guy bitching about that one call - there were plenty to go around. Just before that one, on the other end, Nowitzki was trying to get to a long rebound, and K-Mart damn near pulled his arm out of socket holding him back. It was out in the open, and an official was standing nearby. There's no way he could have missed it. Anybody who wants to get pissed off about the officiating has all the evidence they need. The officiating this whole season has been piss-poor. But the playoffs have taken that to a totally new level.

Whether it's due to fickle fans, the media, bad marketing or a combination of all, the NBA can't sustain a satisfactory level of popularity unless the games are played at the 100+ point level on a regular basis. This means more fouls have to be called, which leads to greater disparity between foul calls. Stars get more respect than scrubs, vets get more respect than rookies, calls decide games, conspiracy theories abound, and so on.

Funny, the most popular month of basketball every year is the NCAA Tournament... Yet it features a lot of blowouts and 61-58 type games. You rarely see the kind of random officiating that abounds in NBA games (even though the NCAA refs are substantially less experienced). Every once in a while the biggest "star" on the court goes for 12 and 6 in a game. BFD.

I'm with you man. The team I wanted to win won, but the game left me wondering whether there was really any point in being emotionally invested in the NBA. I thought the game last night was a glorified foul shooting contest, yet this is what passes for exciting these days. As much as I love the Spurs, I'm not sure how long I can sustain my basketball fandom when they're no longer legitimate contenders.

There are still a lot of things to love about the NBA but there are too many outside influences affecting what happens on the court.

[mavs>spurs2]

I'd love to see Nuggets in the WCF. It would be great to see Martin there been a fan of his since he first became a Net. And Martin isn't a thug or murderer, Dallas fans are just mad Dallas is losing, heck I'm sure Kidd is out there thinking when he hears fans call anyone call Martin a thug "These fans are stupid, Martin is a good player I was pissed when the Nets let him go" and I am actually not lying, Kidd was pissed when Martin went to Denver so you know Kidd respects him:toast:toast:toast

JR Smith is the murderer, not Kenyon Martin. He's just a fake thug

[Basketballgirl25]

JR Smith is the murderer, not Kenyon Martin. He's just a fake thug

So we got a Murderer in JR Smith, a thug in Kenyon Martin, and a wife beater in Kidd, the good NBA players for you right there. Yao and Dirk seem like the only good basketball players of course they also both have eyes I can't stand

[monosylab1k]

:cryFindog and Mono would rather lead the charge to shout people down who dare to have an opinion on this forum :cry, which they somehow think belongs to them just because they shit on virtually every thread whenever they choose. :cry Every other Mavfan drops into lock step with them :cry because it's easier to call someone a faggot than it is to discuss basketball. :cry As a result, some of us really enjoy watching them continue to suffer, :cry and the bail out call for Dirk on yet another missed fadeaway jumper in crunchtime just prolongs the agony for them. :cry I for one am enjoying it immensely. :cry

[Phonzie20]

JR Smith is the murderer, not Kenyon Martin. He's just a fake thug

Actually, a couple of my Nugget buddies believe Kenyon got Derrant Williams killed at his NYE's B-Day bash because he let known gang members in.

[GSH]

At the NBA level, it is near impossible. The players are so skilled and so physical. There is actually a foul just about every time down court if you want to get technical. The refs job is to keep it as fair as possible and call that which affects the play. Also, refs have to tighten up when things get heated and let them play when they can or when the players show them that they want to play basketball instead of push and shove.




Here's an example of what I was talking about. If you have the Lakers-Rockets game 6 on your DVR, go to the 7:45 mark of the third quarter. The Lakers were in the process of a miracle WWF-style comeback. Of course, they had also been getting by with murder, which sort of helped.

There was a jump ball at the 7:45 mark. Fisher and Brooks were by themselves, and the tip came in thier direction. Fisher put a huge 2-handed shove, with full arm extension, into Brooks' chest - and that left Fisher open to collect the tip.

I understand a ref missing a call in a crowd, with a lot of bodies in the way, or when it happens away from the main action on the court. But on this play, the two players were all alone, and they were the major point of action on the court because that's where the tipped ball went. And there was a ref right there, maybe 8 feet away from them, with nothing better to do. And it's not like it was a tough discretionary call - Fisher shoved the shit out of Brooks with both hands, specifically to enable him to get to the tip.

My point is that there is no way... absolutely no fucking way... that an NBA ref could have innocently missed that call. Hell, a high school ref couldn't have missed that call. The only conclusion I can come to is that he willfully decided not to blow his whistle. You can decide if you think it is coincidence that it came in the middle of the Lakers amazing comeback.

In the WWF, one guy will beat the shit out of the other for most of the match, until the victim looks like he is unconscious. Then, suddenly, the victim stands up and begins to dish out his own beating on the other wrestler. The NBA is starting to remind me of that - far too much, and far too often. And when I see calls (or no-calls) like this one, I really begin to have doubts about the legitimacy of the game. And make no mistake - it wasn't the only piss-poor call during that stretch. It is just an easy example to follow.

[dav4463]

I think the NCAA officials are the best officials in sports.

[NugzFan]

I don't care what anyone says, we SHOULD RIGHTFULLY be tied 2-2 and could very easily be up 3-1, but we got beat the fuck up in game one. As bad as the ending to game 3 was, I think people forget that game 1 was a lot worse. I know we wouldn't beat L.A. or Cleveland, but this kind of thing ruins the integrity of the game. No one wants to see a bunch of thugs and murderers cheat their way into the WCF.

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

It never ceases to amaze me how Mavfan can refer to another team as thugs with a straight face, at least until JET and Howard are gone.

[Basketballgirl25]

If Kenyon Martin is a thug so be it, I'd love to have him on the Nets again, he is great

[JustBlaze]

JR Smith is the murderer, not Kenyon Martin. He's just a fake thug
Kidd's a wife beater, Nowitzki's a tranny banger, Cuban's a crook(Insider Trading civil suit), and in addition to being a pothead, JHO's also a commi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w3mihzzZZM


I got nothing bad to say about Terry though, he cool.

[dirk4mvp]

Kidd's a wife beater, Nowitzki's a tranny banger, Cuban's a crook(Insider Trading civil suit), and in addition to being a pothead, JHO's also a commi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w3mihzzZZM


I got nothing bad to say about Terry though, he cool.

Add all those up and it's still not as bad as killing someone.

[JustBlaze]

Add all those up and it's still not as bad as killing someone.
Right because it's JR's fault that both he and his friend were dumb enough to not wear their seat belts at the time of the crash. Bitch please.

[dirk4mvp]

Yep. Not to mention the heroin addict and the backwards fighting pussy makes appearances in Stop Snitching dvds.

[JustBlaze]

Yep. Not to mention the heroin addict and the backwards fighting pussy makes appearances in Stop Snitching dvds.
I didn't know Josh Howard made a cameo in that video. That explains a lot.