Biggest injustices/disappointments

[N4th4n]

I was thinking about championship teams and their roll players when I remembered that Antoine Walker won a ring as a member of the Heat 06 team. This disgusts me. When looking back through history at all the amazing players who ended their careers ringless, the though of this pathetic bastard wearing one seems terrible.

What are some of the biggest injustices or disappointments you can think off?

Jerry Sloan never winning coach of the year – If nothing else he deserves it as a lifetime achievement award his dedication and successes have to be admired.

Kevin Johnson – As a Phoenix fan I loved him and always will. I wish his career could have been less injury plagued as I think I could have been one of the all time greats. You can throw Penny in here as well.

Steve Nash – Another homer pick. I love the man’s passion and I love what he has done for my team. Say what you will about his MVPs but one thing I think he DOES deserve is a ring. Throw Dirk in this category to!

[duncan228]

Duncan never getting a DPOY.

[Ghazi]

Dallas not winning a 2006 championship

[pawe]

Duncan never getting a DPOY.

also Bowen

[IronMexican]

Shaq and Kobe not winning more rings

[Spur-Addict]

Teams who acquire top big men for a pittance.

[N4th4n]

Duncan never getting a DPOY.

This is terrible considering the last two winners of the award. I have watched alot of spurs games and I know first hand Duncan is a superior defender to both of them. :depressed

[Jacob1983]

The outcomes of the 2002 WCF and 2006 Finals

[baseline bum]

The outcomes of the 2002 WCF and 2006 Finals

The pussies lost both times. Seems pretty just.

[baseline bum]

I was thinking about championship teams and their roll players when I remembered that Antoine Walker won a ring as a member of the Heat 06 team. This disgusts me. When looking back through history at all the amazing players who ended their careers ringless, the though of this pathetic bastard wearing one seems terrible.

Is it any worse than the other option: that Keith Van Horn would have a ring?

[JamStone]

I think it's pretty ridiculous Shaquille O'Neal only has one regular season League MVP for his career.

Dennis Johnson and Bernard King still not being in the HOF.

Not so much an injustice, but more of a "so not fair"... David Robinson getting injured the draft year of Tim Duncan and the Spurs lucking out with the #1 pick.

Somewhat similar, the Orlando Magic landing the #1 overall pick two years in a row, but instead of keeping Chris Webber, trading him for Penny Hardaway and draft picks. Disappointment in that I would have really liked to see what Shaq and Webber would have done together.

[poop]

Bowen/Duncan never getting a DPOY.

even worse considering DWIGHT HOWARD just got one...

and the entire 2006 postseason, an all-round travesty.

[JoeTait75]

The death of the SuperSonics.

[Red Hawk #21]

Hawks sucking for basically a decade, Mike Woodson being the coach of the Hawks, Joe Johnson playing like he's 5'11, Josh Smith's Jumper, Zaza pachulia's temper, Mike Bibby's defense, letting J-Chillz go for nothing, not drafting Deron williams. God, I think Im gunna cry...

[Darrin]

The Phoenix Suns making the Conference Finals in 2006. They needed a broken playoff bracket (Dallas with 7 more wins, couldn't avoid San Antonio until the Conference Finals just because they won a division), Tim Thomas and Raja Bell lucky-ass shots, and the stolen MVP award. This is the season I was convinced the league was fixed and it's the season I learned to hate the Suns.

[Darrin]

Hawks sucking for basically a decade, Mike Woodson being the coach of the Hawks, Joe Johnson playing like he's 5'11, Josh Smith's Jumper, Zaza pachulia's temper, Mike Bibby's defense, letting J-Chillz go for nothing, not drafting Deron williams. God, I think Im gunna cry...

Chris Paul, too.

[Red Hawk #21]

Chris Paul, too.

Nah, F Chris Paul. If you come around these parts more you'll see how much I hate him. And F Jannero Pargo wherever he is in russia.

[KSeal]

Hawks sucking for basically a decade, Mike Woodson being the coach of the Hawks, Joe Johnson playing like he's 5'11, Josh Smith's Jumper, Zaza pachulia's temper, Mike Bibby's defense, letting J-Chillz go for nothing, not drafting Deron williams. God, I think Im gunna cry...

I hate to carry on but this one is pretty bad, not taking D-Will or CP3 and then the following year not taking Brandon Roy, that's painful..

Just a couple of the biggest injustices/disappointments that jump out to me is the 2002 WCF game 6 and also naming a franchise the Thunder.

[pauls931]

Duncan never getting a DPOY.

Seriously? Not that I pay attention to that but I figured he'd at least have 2 under his belt. Not many big men rotate from the weakside as well as he does.

[monosylab1k]

Shaq and Kobe not winning more rings

yeah, boo fucking hoo

[Darrin]

Seriously? Not that I pay attention to that but I figured he'd at least have 2 under his belt. Not many big men rotate from the weakside as well as he does.

Ben Wallace took his away from him in 2003.

[monosylab1k]

The death of the SuperSonics.

:tu

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk not being born black and getting some tats.

[monoslyab1k]

Gerald Green getting removed from the rotation by Rick Carlisle.

[stretch]

Shawn Bradley never winning MVP

[FromWayDowntown]

I looked at some outside-the-norm metrics on Duncan and on Duncan's teams and it becomes pretty easy to make an argument that he's been the best defender on some of the best defensive teams in NBA history. For him to have never won DPOY during that span is absolutely absurd. I'd argue that Duncan not winning is a much greater injustice than Bowen not winning -- and I believe Bruce has been hosed.

All of the defensive numbers that people were lauding the Celtics for last year have been pretty much the norm in San Antonio from 1999 through 2007. In fact, in most of those seasons the Spurs numbers -- even adjusted for pace -- were better than what the 07-08 Celtics did. Duncan's defensive efficiencies, his rebounding rates, his defensive win shares, his rebounds, his blocks, and the intangibles were all incredible during that run -- better than Garnett's 07-08 season, I'd argue -- and yet still no DPOY. It's a true shame.

[BlackSwordsMan]

big country not getting a 2nd chance

[stretch]

The Blazers not having won a ring from the 80s to early 2000's. They had some damn good teams and were consistently good for nearly 20 straight years.

[stretch]

The Mavericks not getting Michael Jordan in the draft.

[stretch]

T-Mac not getting out of the first round.

Yes, some people will think I'm retarded, but fact is, against Dallas and Utah, the guy played his ass off and had his team in position to take each series without too much trouble, and then his team started sucking ass. Say what you want, but in those series, he was balling his ass off and did all he could to try to win. His teams let him down big-time.

[Indazone]

Brad Miller getting tats and corn rowed.

[stretch]

Grant Hill's career ruined due to injury. Guy was a phenom.

Drazen Petrovic's death. Another phenom.

[poop]

I looked at some outside-the-norm metrics on Duncan and on Duncan's teams and it becomes pretty easy to make an argument that he's been the best defender on some of the best defensive teams in NBA history. For him to have never won DPOY during that span is absolutely absurd. I'd argue that Duncan not winning is a much greater injustice than Bowen not winning -- and I believe Bruce has been hosed.

All of the defensive numbers that people were lauding the Celtics for last year have been pretty much the norm in San Antonio from 1999 through 2007. In fact, in most of those seasons the Spurs numbers -- even adjusted for pace -- were better than what the 07-08 Celtics did. Duncan's defensive efficiencies, his rebounding rates, his defensive win shares, his rebounds, his blocks, and the intangibles were all incredible during that run -- better than Garnett's 07-08 season, I'd argue -- and yet still no DPOY. It's a true shame.

very true.

if Duncan was a celtic or a laker, he'd have 3-4 DPOY by now.

[stretch]

The only reason Duncan and Bowen didn't win DPOY awards is because they never showed a ton of emotion or constantly have flashy steals/blocks the way guys like Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, Ron Artest, and KG had. But in his prime, they both were most definitely a better defender than all those guys. They played lockdown man defense, and smart help defense, which I will take all day, over a couple flashy blocks/steals.

Not being in the limelight like those guys is what hurt Timmy and Bruce, and its honestly a shame. They each deserved AT LEAST one. But they got rings to show, which is 100x better.

[pauls931]

The only reason Duncan and Bowen didn't win DPOY awards is because they never showed a ton of emotion or constantly have flashy steals/blocks the way guys like Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, Ron Artest, and KG had. But in his prime, they both were most definitely a better defender than all those guys. They played lockdown man defense, and smart help defense, which I will take all day, over a couple flashy blocks/steals.

Not being in the limelight like those guys is what hurt Timmy and Bruce, and its honestly a shame. They each deserved AT LEAST one. But they got rings to show, which is 100x better.

This is what separates the Spurs from many teams. Help defense. Not as flashy, but simply rotating on D at the right times doesn't look flashy, but makes ALL the difference. Duncan rotates, offensive player changes his mind. Won't get you DPOY, but will get you rings...

[balli]

+1 on the TD- no DPOY

John Stockton losing out on a title because Malone couldn't keep his shit together in crunch time... And Dick Bavetta.

Along those same lines (this won't be popular) Pat Burke falling on Malone's knee, thereby destroying the only stable part of the would be 2004 Champion Lakers.

Not really an injustice, but the whole Michael Ray Richardson saga's pretty disappointing and tragic.

[peskypesky]

Manu's stupid foul on Dirk in 2006.

[JamStone]

The DPOY is a joke of an award. It has become so statistics-based, and the huge problem with that are that the defensive statistics (blocks, steals, defensive rebounds) don't necessarily prove a player is a good defender or not. That's why good rebounders and shot blockers have often dominated the award. Ben Wallace probably didn't deserve the 2005 or 2006 (but he deserved it in 2004 when Artest got it), but statistically he was still better (albeit not much) than a guy like Duncan, especially because Ben would also fill up the steals category for a big man. I don't think that justifies it, but I think that's the reasoning. Ben was also a very good low post defender and an above average perimeter defender for a big man. But at least one, and maybe both of those, DPOYs (2005, 2006) were heavily based on reputation. 2005 might have been to make up for Artest getting it in 2004. Marcus Camby winning it in 2007 really showed how much of a joke the award is.

Also look at it this way, even though it probably brings little solace for the Spurs faithful. The Pistons were an elite team from around 2002-03 through 2005-06. For a team to be that good for so long, they weren't getting anyone as a legit contender for MVP, and no first team all-NBA selections. Their one individual accolade during that time period was the DPOY. Tim was still getting recognition as a legit MVP candidate and perennial first team all NBA player. For the better part of this decade, after the Spurs and the Lakers, the Pistons might have had the most success. And, this was the one award the Pistons and their fans knew they had a legit chance of winning year in and year out until Ben walked. It's not right, but maybe that's the basketball gods trying to throw the Pistons a bone to balance things out.

There are probably a couple things that hurt Tim Duncan's chances of winning a DPOY award in his career. First, for basically his entire career, he's had an elite defender as a teammate. David Robinson, even in his decline, perhaps took some of the credit for how well the Spurs played defense. And, Bruce Bowen, especially during the time roughly between 2003-2006, probably split votes among DPOY voters. Moreover, as suggested by what some people have mentioned, the Spurs defensive schemes have been considered among the best defensive strategies and gameplans over the past decade. Gregg Poppovich often gets credit for the way he designed help defense and forcing the basketball to the corners and baselines. It's this same defensive scheme that made players like Malik Rose, Rasho Nesterovic, and Nazr Mohammed look like above average, if not great, defenders. These things probably hurt his chances, along with some of the things already mentioned like Tim not being a flashy defender with highlight blocks and such and with his business-like demeanor. He has definitely been overlooked in this regard. Great player, awesome defender.

[FromWayDowntown]

The DPOY is a joke of an award.

* * * *

These things probably hurt his chances, along with some of the things already mentioned like Tim not being a flashy defender with highlight blocks and such and with his business-like demeanor. He has definitely been overlooked in this regard. Great player, awesome defender.

Didn't want to re-post all that you said, though I agree with it all. As a Spurs fan, it was frustrating last year to hear the pandering to the Celtics' defensive greatness (which hinted that their defensive prowess was almost unprecedented) when that stuff has been going on for years in San Antonio (and Detroit). I think Duncan's DPOY candidacies have been hurt by his lack of flash; they've been hurt by having elite defenders on hand; they've been hurt by the fact that his regular season minutes were often reduced because of bigger goals; and they've been hurt by the fact that he's Tim Duncan. Still, I think it's shameful that when the next generation talks about the great defenders of this era, Duncan's rightful ranking among the very best of all time will be diminished by the fact that he never won a DPOY, despite metrics that are off the charts.

I suppose, though, that 12 straight all-league selections and 12 straight all-defensive selections might offset the injustice.

[FromWayDowntown]

I agree with the mention of Grant Hill's injuries and Drazen Petrovic's death. Two great players who never really got to play at the height of their powers. I think the same could be said of Bill Walton, too.

I think one macro injustice, too, is the decision to market stars over teams; I think it worked initially when the league needed a boost, but it's created this monster that convinces fans that the league is dictating outcomes to perpetuate stars because fans won't watch if the stars aren't there.

[baseline bum]

Arvydas Sabonis only playing in the NBA after he destroyed his knees, and people thinking of a slow, lumbering bigman when they hear his name because of it.

[JustBlaze]

LeBron winning ROY over Melo.

[baseline bum]

+1 on the TD- no DPOY

John Stockton losing out on a title because Malone couldn't keep his shit together in crunch time... And Dick Bavetta.


+1. Stockton was ridiculously clutch. I can't count all the times I have seen him save Malone's ass at the end of games when the Mailman didn't show up. No way Utah shouldn't have won the 98 title after Stockton threw in that three with 41 seconds left to take a three-point lead in game 6. But, 20 seconds later Malone's not paying attention, and commits the series-blowing turnover. I mean, no way does Chicago win a game 7 with Pippen barely able to walk and an old Jordan running on fumes, trying to replicate his game 6 performance. It's ridiculous how underrated Stockton is; IMO he was a far better player than Malone.

[Spursfan092120]

.04

[stretch]

Arvydas Sabonis only playing in the NBA after he destroyed his knees, and people thinking of a slow, lumbering bigman when they hear his name because of it.

I was thinking of the same thing too. He might be the most skilled big man I've ever seen.

[JamStone]

.04

I think people often point this out, but it's not so much of an injustice as it was a heartbreaker because Duncan had just made a near impossible shot at the other end that basically stole the game away from the Lakers before Fisher stole it back.

[Spursfan092120]

I think people often point this out, but it's not so much of an injustice as it was a heartbreaker because Duncan had just made a near impossible shot at the other end that basically stole the game away from the Lakers before Fisher stole it back.
little bit of both actually...the clock didn't start in time...couldn't have gotten the shot off in time..but I was putting it on here because of the disappointment, not the injustice.

[JamStone]

Fair enough. Definitely a disappointment.

I also recall the argument that after Duncan made his shot, the clock wasn't stopped quickly enough. Shrugs... who knows?

[Spursfan092120]

Fair enough. Definitely a disappointment.

I also recall the argument that after Duncan made his shot, the clock wasn't stopped quickly enough. Shrugs... who knows?
hmm...I never looked at that..I'll have to watch the video again.

[jdev82]

Duncan never getting a DPOY.

yeah. what the nba is saying is dwight howard, whose defensive footwork is just painful to watch, is a better defender than tim duncan, because he goaltends alot of shots. they are also saying that lebron is better on d than bruce bowen. rediculous. i always knew the MVP was a popularity contest, but dpoy the last 3 years or so has become one as well. the nba is so ludicrously biased and rigged that i may not watch next year. except my beloved spurs. fuck david stern and have a pleasant tomorrow.

[JamStone]

hmm...I never looked at that..I'll have to watch the video again.

FR7Z1Pq2s5I

Look at the replay at around 1:17 of the clip. Not great quality in the video, but I think you could argue that there should have been at least .6 and maybe .7 left instead of .4 left.

[jacobdrj]

Artest/Jackson cheating Reggie out of 1 last shot of a title.

[ambchang]

Len Bias not having the maturity to stay away from drugs.
Sam Bowie being labelled as a bust due to injuries and drafted ahead of Jordan.
Ralph Sampson battling with injuries all his career.
Robinson and Hakeem being judged based on one series.
Shaq and Kobe having the ring handed to them in 2000 and 2002.
Nash winning MVP over Shaq.
Russell being considered as equal (or better) than Chamberlain because he had better teammates.
Alonzo Mourning winning a ring after the massive douchery he committed against the Heat, Raptors and the Nets.
Karl Malone never getting imprisoned for impregnating a 14-year old girl.
Karl Malone called Mailman when he never delivers in crunch time.
Shawn Kemp not having a brain and got fat.
Magic Johnson getting HIV at the height of his career.
John Stockton never getting a ring.
Jordan over Nique in the dunk contest in Chicago (was that 88?)
Isiah Thomas not in the original Dream Team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Steve Nash – Another homer pick. I love the man’s passion and I love what he has done for my team. Say what you will about his MVPs but one thing I think he DOES deserve is a ring. Throw Dirk in this category to!

How does someone who refused to commit to playing defense deserve a ring?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Len Bias not having the maturity to stay away from drugs.
Sam Bowie being labelled as a bust due to injuries and drafted ahead of Jordan.
Ralph Sampson battling with injuries all his career.
Robinson and Hakeem being judged based on one series.
Shaq and Kobe having the ring handed to them in 2000 and 2002.
Nash winning MVP over Shaq.
Russell being considered as equal (or better) than Chamberlain because he had better teammates.
Alonzo Mourning winning a ring after the massive douchery he committed against the Heat, Raptors and the Nets.
Karl Malone never getting imprisoned for impregnating a 14-year old girl.
Karl Malone called Mailman when he never delivers in crunch time.
Shawn Kemp not having a brain and got fat.
Magic Johnson getting HIV at the height of his career.
John Stockton never getting a ring.
Jordan over Nique in the dunk contest in Chicago (was that 88?)
Isiah Thomas not in the original Dream Team.
:rolleyes
Robinson's "severe" injury cough cough that conveniently landed the Spurs Tim Duncan
Tim Donaghy

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Suns fans not getting a championship because Amare Stoudemire is an immature douche who couldn't stay on the bench.

[JoeTait75]

Vancouver going 14-68 in 1996-97 and not even getting a chance to land Tim Duncan because of the expansion rules.

[JamStone]

Injustice, disappointment, or crime?

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo254/waltongurl4/la-lakers.jpg

Lakers short-shorts half.

[Chris Fall]

Sons it's a huge injustice that the Academy has robbed me of at least one Oscar.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Sons it's a huge injustice that the Academy has robbed me of at least one Oscar.

agreed:toast

[Spursfan092120]

:rolleyes
Robinson's "severe" injury cough cough that conveniently landed the Spurs Tim Duncan
Tim Donaghy
.04 (clock starting too late)
Lakers getting handed Gasol

[SpursDynasty]

Bruce Bowen never winning DPOY. LeBron winning MVP, Dwight Howard winning DPOY, LeBron and Dwight Howard making the All-NBA First Team.

[FromWayDowntown]

it's 0.4, not .04!!

It was 4 tenths of a second, not 4 hundreths of a second.

[Spursfan092120]

it's 0.4, not .04!!

It was 4 tenths of a second, not 4 hundreths of a second.
:lol my bad...never was good in math.

[DeadlyDynasty]

.04 (clock starting too late)
Lakers getting handed Gasol

Nope, and if this was the NFL there'd be no indisputable evidence to overturn the call made on the field (court)...but the officials looked it over moreso than an NFL official would and it still counted. On top of all that, this was in San Antonio, not Staples.


As far as Gasol's concerned, that trade hasn't panned out completely yet...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lol the trade hasn't panned out my ass.......are they better after the trade? Would you make the trade all over again?

If the answer is yes to both of those questions, then the trade has panned out.

[DeadlyDynasty]

lol the trade hasn't panned out my ass.......are they better after the trade? Would you make the trade all over again?

If the answer is yes to both of those questions, then the trade has panned out.

if they win it all this year then it panned out

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

if they win it all this year then it panned out

Are you saying the trade will be a mistake if they don't win it all? If a trade doesn't pan out, that means it was a mistake plain and simple. If a trade helps the team overall and the general consensus among the fans coaching staff and front office is the team would do the trade all over again, then it did pan out.

[Ghazi]

Biggest injustice is Steve Nash not winning a ring

Boy I sure do love Steve Nash

Great fucking PG

Just bad luck

03 Dirk hurt
05 JJ hurt
06 Amare hurt
07 Amare dumbass
08 fluke Duncan shot

Great fucking PG who just could never catch a break. I feel for you Nash, much love. Fuck da Nash hatas.

Fucking great PG, hall of famer, its like watching poetry in motion. Nash = Shakespeare on court.

[baseline bum]

Len Bias not having the maturity to stay away from drugs.


Damn. The 86 Celtics + Len Bias :wow
No way they don't repeat if he doesn't OD.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Are you saying the trade will be a mistake if they don't win it all? If a trade doesn't pan out, that means it was a mistake plain and simple. If a trade helps the team overall and the general consensus among the fans coaching staff and front office is the team would do the trade all over again, then it did pan out.

The Grizz got first round picks in 08, 10, and the rights to Marc Gasol (who looks pretty damn good so far). Yes, Pau made us title contenders again, so the trade looks good right now...if we dont get a title out of this then its a royal waste of time

[urunobili]

Manu 2005 Finals MVP

[DeadlyDynasty]

Damn. The 86 Celtics + Len Bias :wow
No way they don't repeat if he doesn't OD.

cocaine's a helluva drug:wow









too soon?

[duncan228]

Manu 2005 Finals MVP

I think Duncan deserved it, but I would have been okay with Manu as a co-MVP. The vote was 6-4, so it was close.

[kingmalaki]

Len Bias dying

Ralph Sampson getting hurt

I think those two events changed the course of league history....

[ambchang]

:rolleyes
Robinson's "severe" injury cough cough that conveniently landed the Spurs Tim Duncan
Tim Donaghy

Lakers getting Shaq "without" tampering cough cough
David Stern.

[ambchang]

:rolleyes
Robinson's "severe" injury cough cough that conveniently landed the Spurs Tim Duncan
Tim Donaghy

Lakers "winning" game 6 cough cough that conveniently landed the NBA great ratings.
Tim Donaghy

[Lars]

4/5's of this years defensive first team.

[fevertrees]

Kenyon Martin having a degree in CRIMINAL JUSTICE