Phil Jackson "It's a home game, Nothing to worry about"

[Indazone]

Coach's Zen approach not helping Lakers

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/8833273_6_3.jpg (http://msn.foxsports.com/writer/Mark-Kriegel?authorId=307) by Mark Kriegel (http://msn.foxsports.com/writer/Mark-Kriegel?authorId=307)

After the first game of the Western Conference semifinals, an eight-point Laker loss at the Staples Center, Phil Jackson came to the interview podium and addressed the media in his best, most reassuring baritone:


"It's not as bad as it seems," he insisted. "We're OK."

Then, after Game 4 -- another Laker loss that saw Jackson's team spot the Yao Ming-less Rockets a 29-point lead -- the coach declared the trip a success.


"We got home-court advantage back," he said, referring to the split in Houston. "That's what we came here to do."

I had to wonder if he was having one of those LSD flashbacks.
And on Thursday, after a first quarter in which Houston jumped out to a 17-1 lead, Jackson said: "I thought we played all right but for the shot selection."

Hold up. For the second time in four nights, his team had come out for a
playoff game overconfident and under-prepared and it was the shot selection?

Finally, when the game was over and the series tied at three games apiece, Jackson said, somewhat mercifully, "I don't have a statement to make."

So allow me to make one. The front-running Lakers will probably win Game 7 at home. But even if they do, it won't change the facts. With two rounds now in evidence, the most talented team in the playoffs has also been the most poorly coached.

Phil Jackson has nine championship rings. He's co-written five books, a library of his opinions and reflections, from "Maverick" to "Sacred Hoops" to "The Last Season." He makes $10 million a year, more than any coach in any sport. But this great basketball man is having one lousy postseason.
It would be nice and convenient to say that the undermanned, if admirable, Houston Rockets have exposed some of his Zen camouflage. But that's not the case. It was the Celtics who laid bare Jackson's team almost a year ago in the finals. In losing the last game by 39, the Lakers entered these playoffs with the burden of proof squarely on their shoulders. Yet they still play as if they are owed something. That's coaching, or rather, lack thereof.

The NBA's most prolific author is down to cliches. "Nobody stepped up," he was heard to say late Thursday at the postgame presser televised on NBA TV.

Then there was this gem: "You know, we're playing with a couple guys who are injured." He was speaking of Andrew Bynum, who made it back from a bad knee before the season ended, and Lamar Odom, who's playing with a bruised back. What he failed to mention, of course, were the Rockets injuries.

The comparison doesn't flatter Jackson's squad. It's difficult not to root for the Rockets. They lost Tracy McGrady during the season. They lost Dikembe Mutombo against Portland. Then Yao Ming went down in the third game of this series. Houston shouldn't have won another game. It's as simple as that. But now they've won two.

While the Lakers start their pair of 7-footers, the Rockets are now smaller than a lot of college teams. They started a 6-6 center, Chuck Hayes, who played more defense than all the Lakers not named Kobe Bryant put together. (By the way, this one isn't on Kobe, who knew the Lakers wouldn't win Game 6 without a marked increase in intensity). Second-year forward Carl Landry came off the bench for 15 points, which was not only more than Bynum and Odom combined, but more than Mr. All-NBA, Pau Gasol.

Good coaches do two things consistently well. They motivate their players, and they make adjustments. To this point in the postseason, Jackson has done neither. After Game 1, he said of his team's lackluster start: "I don't know if we can play much worse, to be honest with you."
Turns out they could play a lot worse, as evidenced by Thursday's first quarter. Speaking of adjustments, there's Aaron Brooks. He's a good player, but the Lakers are giving him the confidence to discover just how good he can be. Six games into this series, Los Angeles still has no answer for Brooks.

Then again, the Lakers have more problems than a slight, second-year point guard. For all their talk of championships, they can't recognize a simple mismatch. Worse, for all their size, they don't defend the lane.
So what of Game 7? Jackson was asked.

It's a home game, he said. "There's nothing to worry about."

[Indazone]

Rockets just making the shots they are supposed to make :lmao

[to21]

I hope this man never get's another ring.

So what happens when/if they get to the Finals when they don't have HCA?

[Muser]

lol KFC

[koriwhat]

that writer looks like he took a mugshot after getting caught on 20/20's pedophile show.

[samikeyp]

He's right.


So is koriwhat. :lmao

[manufan10]

He's right.


So is koriwhat. :lmao

+1

:lol

[lefty]

As much as I hate KFC and his antics, he is right.

Stern wants Kobe vs Lebreon in the NBA Finals :flipoff

[scanry]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:dw884IRJup50OM:http://calitreview.com/images/int_kriegel.jpg (http://calitreview.com/images/int_kriegel.jpg)







I like Mark Kriegal's articles. BTW Phil needs to lite a fire under these soft Faker asses....

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Holy hell, Phil Jackson really does sound like a Dynasty troll. Life imitating internets. Creepy.

[GSH]

PJ is the Barry Switzer of basketball. There are two rules to that coaching style.

1. Have the best team money can buy.
2. Smile a lot, and let them play.

The problem is, at the professional level that isn't always enough. Maybe when you have Jordan and Pippen, and a great supporting cast. Or when you have Kobe and Shaq, and a great supporting cast. But when the talent level on PJ's team isn't overwhelmingly better, he gets his ass kicked.

Zen Master my ass.

[pauls931]

Frankly, I think Jackson just doesn't give a crap.

[samikeyp]

PJ is the Barry Switzer of basketball. There are two rules to that coaching style.

1. Have the best team money can buy.
2. Smile a lot, and let them play.

The problem is, at the professional level that isn't always enough. Maybe when you have Jordan and Pippen, and a great supporting cast. Or when you have Kobe and Shaq, and a great supporting cast. But when the talent level on PJ's team isn't overwhelmingly better, he gets his ass kicked.

Zen Master my ass.

:lol nice.

Terry Porter, when he was still a Spurs player had a great quote.

"I would like to see him try that Zen crap in Vancouver"
(back when the Grizz were still there.)

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Frankly, I think Jackson just doesn't give a crap.

I wouldn't go that far :lol but that wouldn't surprise me

I think he's expecting this team to flip a switch and turn up the intensity like all the other championship teams he coached did, and he seems completely unprepared for a team that needs a coach to motivate it throughout the playoffs.

I think he's regretting giving them the leeway they had through the regular season. When he coached the 2001 Lakers he could give the team leeway to coast through the regular season cause that team shut up and focused completely once the playoffs started. He's expecting a focused veteran team that can shut up and do their job like the 2001 Lakers when he simply doesn't have a team full of self-motivated players.

[ElNono]

The Zen master is laughing all the way to the bank... wether he wins shit or not.
Give the guy some credit.

[GSH]

The Zen master is laughing all the way to the bank....

So was Bernie Madoff. If Jackson deserves credit for getting paid to be a fake, then I guess I'll give it to him. At least fake coaches don't go to jail.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

:lol nice.

Terry Porter, when he was still a Spurs player had a great quote.

"I would like to see him try that Zen crap in Vancouver"
(back when the Grizz were still there.)

I'd like to see him try now precisely because there's no NBA team in Vancouver.

[Cry Havoc]

Phil Jackson will end up as the most overrated coach in NBA history. This is inexcusable. I'm not sure if this is better or worse than whining about the officials. :lol

[pauls931]

Phil Jackson will end up as the most overrated coach in NBA history. This is inexcusable. I'm not sure if this is better or worse than whining about the officials. :lol

I wouldn't say that. Doug Collins did jack shit with MJ in chicago. LA was a joke with Del Harris running the show before he got there.

[anonoftheinternets]

I wouldn't say that. Doug Collins did jack shit with MJ in chicago. LA was a joke with Del Harris running the show before he got there.

ok Phil Jackson is better than doug Collins and Del Harris, whopdee-doo.... point is he is severely overrated.

[JamStone]

Frankly, I think Jackson just doesn't give a crap.

Maybe his hip is really giving out and he doesn't want to travel anymore. He was up and standing the most I've seen in a long time in last night's game. Maybe the comfy raised chair isn't even working anymore. He needs to rest.

[TampaDude]

ok Phil Jackson is better than doug Collins and Del Harris, whopdee-doo.... point is he is severely overrated.

Don't forget...the Bulls didn't really get going until the duo of Jordan and Pippen gelled.

[baseline bum]

I hope this man never get's another ring.

So what happens when/if they get to the Finals when they don't have HCA?

He's still not as big a prick as Auerbach. I'd root for him to break that record if he was coaching somewhere else.

[Cry Havoc]

I wouldn't say that. Doug Collins did jack shit with MJ in chicago. LA was a joke with Del Harris running the show before he got there.

But that's not coaching a team. That's just getting stars to work together. He's the Dr. Phil of the NBA. He's a great psychologist, and a good head coach, but that's it.

[Showtime24 LAKERS]

That's why Phil has 9rings and is the winningest coach in the playoffs.

[TampaDude]

Pop is a better coach than PJ...PJ has just been luckier.

[JamStone]

As much of a drama queen as Larry Brown is, he's probably still the best coach in the league. Consistently gets teams to overachieve. Never really blessed with a transcendental superstar like Michael or Shaq or Hakeem or Duncan. And, while his off-court persona is definitely sullied, he's probably still the best coach in the game.

[LakeShow]

Pop is a better coach than PJ...PJ has just been luckier.

Yeah, POP really showed us that this season. :lol

[jack sommerset]

Jackson is probably right. Especially considering the injuries to the Rockets. The problem I have is Kobe has not won shit without Shaq. Kobe tried to put his stamp early in the game last night against a weaker opponent but couldn't. Last years finals he disapeared. The lakers are stacked and should wipe the floor with this Rocket team but it's all tied up. If the Lakers don't win Sunday I will be shocked. And if they lose the legend of Kobe is over.

[ElNono]

And if they lose the legend of Kobe is over.

The legend of Kobe has been over for a while now. Other than the mass media trying to push the guy down everyone's throat, basketball-wise he is nowhere near to the best ever player they try to compare him with.
Or do you think MJ would let this Laker team go seven games against this ailing Rockets team?

[iggypop123]

im sure when pop sticks with finely and udoka spurs fans say "that a boy! we love our pop

[pauls931]

MJ had a killer instinct, Kobe can be clutch, but the killer instinct is not always there.

[TampaDude]

Yeah, POP really showed us that this season. :lol

He did in 1999, 2003, 2005, and 2007. :p:

:lobt: :lobt: :lobt: :lobt:

Pop has done more with less over the past decade than any other coach in the NBA, hands down.

[21_Blessings]

MJ had a killer instinct, Kobe can be clutch, but the killer instinct is not always there.

You're dumb if you think that about Kobe.

Gasol and Odom is a FAR cry from Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman.

Pau Gasol has become so fucking overrated since he became a Laker. Kobe makes him look much better than he really is. Who is he really? Yeah he's the guy that was 0-12 in the playoffs before he became a Laker.

[Jeremy]

Bulletin board material. Nice.

[pauls931]

You're dumb if you think that about Kobe.

Gasol and Odom is a FAR cry from Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman.

Pau Gasol has become so fucking overrated since he became a Laker. Kobe makes him look much better than he really is. Who is he really? Yeah he's the guy that was 0-12 in the playoffs before he became a Laker.

I also don't remember MJ quitting on his team, thanks for letting Phoenix advance that year...

[Mel_13]

You're dumb if you think that about Kobe.

Gasol and Odom is a FAR cry from Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman.

Pau Gasol has become so fucking overrated since he became a Laker. Kobe makes him look much better than he really is. Who is he really? Yeah he's the guy that was 0-12 in the playoffs before he became a Laker.

Lets look at the last three seasons

Kobe w/o Gasol

Regular season: 72-56 (.563)
Postseason wins: 4
Series victories: zero

Kobe w/Gasol

Regular season: 92-26 (.780)
Postseason wins: 21
Series victories: 4

So who is who making who look good?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

MJ had a killer instinct, Kobe can be clutch, but the killer instinct is not always there.I agree.
I think we've seen enough post-seasons of Kobe's for that to be the case. 2004, 2006, I wonder if Kobe will take three shots again in this upcoming game 7? ...Only now he doesn't have Smush Parker and Kwame to blame anymore for his passive-aggressive leadership.


Only in 2008 do I give Kobe a free-pass in his losing the Finals, because Celtics had a good gameplan against him, and they were able to match the Lakers weapons....that said MJ on that Lakers team wouldn't have gotten blown out by 39 points in an elimination game. :rollin

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Lets look at the last three seasons

Kobe w/o Gasol

Regular season: 72-56 (.563)
Postseason wins: 4
Series victories: zero

Kobe w/Gasol

Regular season: 92-26 (.780)
Postseason wins: 21
Series victories: 4

So who is who making who look good?
Before Gasol and Bynum, Laker fan blamed it on lack of talent.

Now that they have talent surrounding Kobe, now they're complaining about not having players that retired 10 years ago. :lol

It's never enough for Laker fan.

[JamStone]

Lets look at the last three seasons

Kobe w/o Gasol

Regular season: 72-56 (.563)
Postseason wins: 4
Series victories: zero

Kobe w/Gasol

Regular season: 92-26 (.780)
Postseason wins: 21
Series victories: 4

So who is who making who look good?


The problem with that is you left out the Gasol w/o Kobe stats.

[Indazone]

Size doesn't win basketball games, strategy, talent and heart win basketball games. All the Lakers have is size. After that they pretty much suck.

[TampaDude]

The Lakers are like the Yankees now...a big market team spending big $$$ and stacking their team with talent, yet still not able to win it all. That streak will likely continue this year as well.

[JamStone]

MJ had a killer instinct, Kobe can be clutch, but the killer instinct is not always there.

Agree with that to a great extent. I think when Kobe has gotten frustrated with teammates and realizes even with his best effort, they're likely to lose, he has been one to give up at times. That's definitely what happened in the second half of game 7 of the the 2007 Phoenix series.

I also think the respective careers of the two also affect this. Jordan experienced playoff failures early in his career and once he climbed the mountain, he never let up and never allowed his teammates to let up.

Kobe experienced great success in the playoffs early in his career, and he still has shown that he feels almost entitled to greatness. Not that he doesn't work hard, because he does. But, he hasn't really had to deal with climbing the mountain from scratch. Even with becoming a lottery team for a year and those two early playoff exits, it seems like after the Gasol trade, it was like he skipped a huge part of the learning experience of climbing that mountain again. There's that sense of entitlement. Then there's that frustration that gets to him when things don't go exactly the way he envisions they should.

He's being tested now. How does he respond not only in his performance but with his motivating and willing his teammates in the next game, and if the Lakers get past the Rockets, the rest of the playoffs? We'll see.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

The Lakers are like the Yankees now...a big market team spending big $$$ and stacking their team with talent, yet still not able to win it all. That streak will likely continue this year as well.

Good analogy.

[JamStone]

Size doesn't win basketball games, strategy, talent and heart win basketball games. All the Lakers have is size. After that they pretty much suck.


I'd say they have the talent and strategy as well.

They lack that "heart" trait, and both mental and physical toughness.

[robbie380]

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7565/philraqi.jpg

"It's a home game. Nothing to worry about."

"It's not as bad as it seems. We're ok."

"We are not afraid of the Rockets. Allah has condemned them. They are stupid. They are stupid" (dramatic pause) "and they are condemned."

"Yes, the Rocket troops have advanced further. This will only make it easier for us to defeat them"

[TampaDude]

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7565/philraqi.jpg

"It's a home game. Nothing to worry about."

"It's not as bad as it seems. We're ok."

"We are not afraid of the Rockets. Allah has condemned them. They are stupid. They are stupid" (dramatic pause) "and they are condemned."

"Yes, the Rocket troops have advanced further. This will only make it easier for us to defeat them"

WINNER!!! :lmao

[IronMexican]

Bulletin board material. Nice.

I am sure the Rockets players check ST before going to bed.

[JamStone]

The Lakers are like the Yankees now...a big market team spending big $$$ and stacking their team with talent, yet still not able to win it all. That streak will likely continue this year as well.


I don't really agree.

Unlike the Yankees, the Lakers are still strapped by the CBA, otherwise they could have kept a guy like Turiaf last summer or they could go in every off-season acquiring a premier player. But there are still more restrictive ways of acquiring elite players in the NBA because teams can't offer max contracts every summer to anyone they want if they're already over the cap. And, after Kobe and Gasol, the talent on the Lakers is not quite at a comparable level as the Yankees. Bynum was a draft pick. Odom is a very good player. The rest of the roster is filled with role players.

[TampaDude]

I don't really agree.

Unlike the Yankees, the Lakers are still strapped by the CBA, otherwise they could have kept a guy like Turiaf last summer or they could go in every off-season acquiring a premier player. But there are still more restrictive ways of acquiring elite players in the NBA because teams can't offer max contracts every summer to anyone they want if they're already over the cap. And, after Kobe and Gasol, the talent on the Lakers is not quite at a comparable level as the Yankees. Bynum was a draft pick. Odom is a very good player. The rest of the roster is filled with role players.

Dude...the Lakers are fucking STACKED...yet they still can't win a title since Shaq left. Kobe will never win a title without Shaq. Book it.

[Indazone]

Notice the difference in the post game comments

“I’m not (worried),” Jackson said. “There’s nothing to worry about. We are just going to go out and play and it’s our homecourt and it’s what we play for.”

The Rockets, however believe they have proved enough to no longer be doubted.
“I’ve stopped trying to figure this team out,” Battier said. “When you think we’re down and out, this team comes with an unbelievable effort. We might not have the most talented team, but there is not a team with more heart in this entire league. We’ve shown it again, and again, and again, and again.”

“In a seventh game,” he said, “anything can happen", Rick Adleman.

"'Five Dollar Foot-long' is one of the best songs," Artest said. "That's a hot song. You've got the FreeCreditReport.com, and then 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on. When 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on, they should play that in the club. They should play all those in the club", Ron Artest http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0007.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=confused/confused0007.gif)

[mingus]

i wouldn't worry much if i'm on the Lakers' side either ... they play better when their backs are against the wall and they have to win ... as much as i hate them , i still think they'll win it all this year ...

[TampaDude]

"'Five Dollar Foot-long' is one of the best songs," Artest said. "That's a hot song. You've got the FreeCreditReport.com, and then 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on. When 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on, they should play that in the club. They should play all those in the club", Ron Artest http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0007.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=confused/confused0007.gif)

:lmao

[Mel_13]

The problem with that is you left out the Gasol w/o Kobe stats.

OK

Gasol in the three seasons prior to breaking his ankle at the 2006 WC:

144-102 (.586)
three first round exits

Kobe in the three seasons between Shaq and Gasol

121-125 (.492)
two first round exits
one lottery trip

[JamStone]

OK

Gasol in the three seasons prior to breaking his ankle at the 2006 WC:

144-102 (.586)
three first round exits

Kobe in the three seasons between Shaq and Gasol

121-125 (.492)
two first round exits
one lottery trip

It's interesting that you deliberately skew the seasons in order to leave out Memphis' 2006-07 season where they went 22-60 despite Gasol playing most of that season, ankle injury or not in the previous season's playoffs, and yet you include the Lakers 2004-05 season where they dealt with a bunch of injuries to the starters plus two coaching changes.

It's also interesting that when you first put up stats, you also included playoff wins, but now you leave that out since Gasol's Grizzlies didn't win one single playoff game in three tries.

[GSH]

I don't really agree.

Unlike the Yankees, the Lakers are still strapped by the CBA, otherwise they could have kept a guy like Turiaf last summer or they could go in every off-season acquiring a premier player. But there are still more restrictive ways of acquiring elite players in the NBA because teams can't offer max contracts every summer to anyone they want if they're already over the cap. And, after Kobe and Gasol, the talent on the Lakers is not quite at a comparable level as the Yankees. Bynum was a draft pick. Odom is a very good player. The rest of the roster is filled with role players.


Don't forget how the Lakers got Kobe Bryant. Before the draft, Kobe and his agent announced that it didn't matter who drafted him, he wouldn't play for anyone other than the Lakers. Charlotte went ahead and drafted him anyway, thinking he would play, but wound up trading his rights to the Lakers for Vlade Divac. There is a myth that they wanted a center and drafted Kobe to get Divac, but it's bullshit. They thought Kobe would play for them, but he and his agent made it clear that he wouldn't. It was almost 4 weeks after the draft when they finally gave up and took the deal with LA. (Vlade had a couple of decent seasons in his career, but mostly he was about a 12 point, 9 rebound guy.) The Lakers didn't even have to give up their own first round pick that year, which is where they got Derek Fisher.

That same year, they threw $120 million at Shaq, which was unheard of money, so they didn't really miss Vlade all that much. If that's not reminiscent of the Yankees, I don't know what would be.

When Shaq decided he wanted out of LA, they traded him for Caron Butler, Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and a first round pick - which is where they got Jordan Farmar. Caron Butler got traded for Kwame Brown, who then got traded for Pao Gasol. Not a bad haul, considering the only way any of it could happen was by paying $120 million for Shaq. There is a lot of similarity to the Yankees in there.

And don't forget the year that Karl Malone and Gary Payton both signed with the Lakers on the cheap. Very reminiscent of players signing with the Yankees for the privelege of wearing pinstripes.

The Lakers situation may not be precisely the same as the Yankees, but there are enough similarities that you can't bash the post too badly.

[Mel_13]

It's interesting that you deliberately skew the seasons in order to leave out Memphis' 2006-07 season where they went 22-60 despite Gasol playing most of that season, ankle injury or not in the previous season's playoffs, and yet you include the Lakers 2004-05 season where they dealt with a bunch of injuries to the starters plus two coaching changes.

It's also interesting that when you first put up stats, you also included playoff wins, but now you leave that out since Gasol's Grizzlies didn't win one single playoff game in three tries.

OK, add in the 22-60, that would make the Grizzlies 164-164 (.500) for the 4 years. Still better than Kobe's record without Shaq or Gasol. Kobe would have 4 playoff wins to zero for Pau. Mind you, we're comparing the Lakers and the Grizzlies.

I'm not trying to make a case that Pau is better than Kobe, only that the poster that claimed that Pau is overrated and only looks good playing with Kobe is badly mistaken. Pau's accomplishments with a team that never won more than 23 games before he arrived compare favorably with Kobe's accomplishments with a diminished Lakers squad.

[JamStone]

GSH,

I realize all those things. But, it still isn't comparable to the Yankees. This past MLB off season, the Yankees signed CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, and AJ Burnett all in the same off-season without having any restrictions to do so like the CBA and salary cap does for the NBA. That would be like the Lakers this off-season signing Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, and Gerald Wallace without having to give up anything but draft picks. It's just not comparable, imo. Lakers are still restricted in how to acquire talent in ways the Yankees aren't. If the Lakers draft talent or acquire talent cheaply, then they can keep them by extending them contracts with Bird Rights. But, the Yankees don't have draft talent or discover diamonds in the rough in order to acquire them by over-paying them.

[JamStone]

OK, add in the 22-60, that would make the Grizzlies 164-164 (.500) for the 4 years. Still better than Kobe's record without Shaq or Gasol. Kobe would have 4 playoff wins to zero for Pau. Mind you, we're comparing the Lakers and the Grizzlies.

I'm not trying to make a case that Pau is better than Kobe, only that the poster that claimed that Pau is overrated and only looks good playing with Kobe is badly mistaken. Pau's accomplishments with a team that never won more than 23 games before he arrived compare favorably with Kobe's accomplishments with a diminished Lakers squad.

Add 22-60 and take away 50-32 (2003-04 season) since your initial post specifically said take the previous three seasons. And, then you have a Grizzlies team that had a 116-130 (.472) record with one playoff appearance in three years and zero playoff wins or playoff series wins.

And, why does it matter you're comparing Lakers and Grizzlies when that 2004-05 Lakers team was clearly on the rebuild after trading away a HOF player and letting its HOF coach walk, while Memphis had a more stable core of players that had been together longer at that point than that now rebuilding Lakers team?

In fact, look at the 2007-08 season, in which Gasol was traded to the Lakers.

2007-08 Memphis Grizzlies: 13-31 with Pau Gasol in the line-up
2007-08 LA Lakers: 30-16 even before trading for Pau Gasol



Your main argument is fine. How you tried to support it with skewed numbers was not.

[GSH]

I realize all those things. But, it still isn't comparable to the Yankees. This past MLB off season, the Yankees signed CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, and AJ Burnett all in the same off-season without having any restrictions to do so like the CBA and salary cap does for the NBA. That would be like the Lakers this off-season signed Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, and Gerald Wallace without having to give up anything but draft picks. It's just not comparable, imo. Lakers are still restricted in how to acquire talent in ways the Yankees aren't. If they draft talent or acquire talent cheaply, then they can keep them by extending them contracts with Bird Rights. But, the Yankees don't have draft talent or discover diamonds in the rough in order to acquire them by over-paying them.


Fair enough. Yankees are worse. But the Lakers are probably the closest thing in the NBA. Cuban has gone a long way towards buying a team. Isiah Thomas tried to do it, but he was just too stupid to make it work. The difference is that LA is also an endorsement goldmine for top players. Between that and outright spending, they have a significant advantage. But you're right - they still had to make some pretense of observing the cap when they did the Gasol trade. Steinbrenner just opens his checkbook.

Still... $120 million for Shaq? In 1996? It's hard not to think of Steinbrenner. And you need to keep in mind that you don't have to buy nearly as many players in basketball.

[Kamala]

He says don't worry, but I wouldn't want to clean the caca stains on his tightie whities from last night!:rollin

[Mel_13]

Add 22-60 and take away 50-32 (2003-04 season) since your initial post specifically said take the previous three seasons. And, then you have a Grizzlies team that had a 116-130 (.472) record with one playoff appearance in three years and zero playoff wins or playoff series wins.

And, why does it matter you're comparing Lakers and Grizzlies when that 2004-05 Lakers team was clearly on the rebuild after trading away a HOF player and letting its HOF coach walk, while Memphis had a more stable core of players that had been together longer at that point the the Lakers team?

In fact, look at the 2007-08 season, in which Gasol was traded to the Lakers.

2007-08 Memphis Grizzlies: 13-31 with Pau Gasol in the line-up
2007-08 LA Lakers: 30-16 even before trading for Pau Gasol



Your main argument is fine. How you tried to support it with skewed numbers was not.

2 playoff appearances in three years. 5 fewer regular season victories than the Lakers and 4 fewer playoff victories.

My main argument did not include any mention of Pau's record with the Griz, only the records of the pre-Gasol and post-Gasol Lakers. That data was not shaded or skewed in any way. And that argument stands on its own merit.

You asked for a comparison of Pau w/o Kobe to Kobe w/o Gasol and we took a journey down a rabbit hole. I don't think comparing the Griz and the Lakers in the time period from the Shaq trade to the Gasol trade is particularly illuminating, but it was a fun little diversion.

My point was and is that Kobe had marginal team success in the time between Shaq and Gasol. The poster who claimed that Pau was overrated and was only having team success because of Kobe was wrong and ignored the fact that Kobe has only had team success since Pau's arrival. Without the Gasol trade the Lakers are not a 65-win championship contender.

[E20]

"'Five Dollar Foot-long' is one of the best songs," Artest said. "That's a hot song. You've got the FreeCreditReport.com, and then 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on. When 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on, they should play that in the club. They should play all those in the club", Ron Artest

That is sig worthy LOL

[mingus]

Fair enough. Yankees are worse. But the Lakers are probably the closest thing in the NBA. Cuban has gone a long way towards buying a team. Isiah Thomas tried to do it, but he was just too stupid to make it work. The difference is that LA is also an endorsement goldmine for top players. Between that and outright spending, they have a significant advantage. But you're right - they still had to make some pretense of observing the cap when they did the Gasol trade. Steinbrenner just opens his checkbook.

Still... $120 million for Shaq? In 1996? It's hard not to think of Steinbrenner. And you need to keep in mind that you don't have to buy nearly as many players in basketball.

i think they're very comparable in the sense that money will allow both teams (Yankees and Lakers) to put arguably the most talented product on the court or field . if that's what you are trying to say then i agree 100% ...

[iggypop123]

VhlGYvIMPgQwVfZ-CU-bx0MpPCKn9ZX3w6CARPuq4BewI_qRhkCozqA[youtube][/youtube

You Know the FIX IS IN.....

Rockets Got NO CHANCE....

OyedFK1N8PM

[Indazone]

Rockets have a chance if they turn into the bigger TV draw over the Lakers. Cinderella brings lots of suitors.

[Indazone]

Well what do you know? That dance version of 5 dollar foot long could get some play in clubs.

TM_znsNfhmU