Back up off of Manu [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

BadOne

05-15-2009, 07:01 PM

Damn, whole bunch of people keep talking about: "trade Ginobili" and "he's too injury prone".

It was barely but 2 seasons ago that he had his best year with us. He injures one ankle in the playoffs and re-aggravates it in the off-season, As a result, he over-compensates on the other ankle injuring that one when the other was fully healed.

In the past the past 7 plus seasons, how many times has he honestly injured each of these ankles?

Manu stays my friends. If he's 100% healthy next season [no excuse for him not to be], he will play with such a chip on his shoulder. If the FO can get some decent guys around the Big 3, and Tim, Manu and Tony are healthy, this will be a championship contending team.

I agree that Splitter is a long shot so Mahinmi will get a go round the first half of the season. If Pop doesn't like what he see's, Ian is gone in a mid-season trade.

Marcus Williams may get some playing time, and who knows, maybe the Spurs can sign Gist, or sway Ariza, or still get Sheed or keep Gooden.

If all of the above could happen, I know next season will be much more successful than this one.

:flag:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/47/145919112_13b143b784.jpg?v=0:flag:

Bruno

05-15-2009, 07:14 PM

Damn, whole bunch of people keep talking about: "trade Ginobili"

That's plain wrong.

ducks

05-15-2009, 07:28 PM

yeah how dare fans want to win a title
trading manu to get a better player in return would not be ok ?

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 07:32 PM

yeah how dare fans want to win a title
trading manu to get a better player in return would not be ok ?

who could they get for Manu that would make them title contenders?

ducks

05-15-2009, 07:39 PM

who could they get for Manu that would make them title contenders?
prince is one that they could get

jr smith might be avaible for manu
George Karl loves manu...

jr smith drives and passes well
he forces some threes but so does manu

he can play more
spurs need someone to play that postion
paying a guy 10 million to do nothing really hurts a team especially one not owned by cuban

prince is not as clutch manu
but spurs have tp late now

manu hurts the team during the regular season because you have to limit his minutes so much
spurs have to find their roles on the team..

someone that is 80-90% close to manu is better then manu now because
manu will not be the manu back in 2005
and manu may be only 80% manu of 2005

ducks

05-15-2009, 07:40 PM

the bird man would help make the spurs contenders

jason1301

05-15-2009, 07:47 PM

the bird man would help make the spurs contenders

the spurs ARE contenders, superstar.....

Solid D

05-15-2009, 07:48 PM

whole bunch of people keep talking about: "trade Ginobili" and "he's too injury prone".

You forgot to mention, "Manu's 2006 foul on Dirk". :rolleyes

Who knows if Manu is damaged goods and unable to play at a high level again? If he is, the medical reports and prognoses would confirm this and other teams would be able to gain knowledge eventually...thus downgrading Manu's trade value.

The Spurs sorely need another playmaker. If we don't have confirmation from medical professionals that Manu is damaged goods and unable to play at a high level again, then why trade one of the great playmakers in basketball today?

You trade him for a draft pick wing or pivot player, you roll the dice and may end up getting an Adam Morrison or Hilton Armstrong. I don't see Manu's future as high risk just yet.

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 07:49 PM

prince is one that they could get

jr smith might be avaible for manu
George Karl loves manu...

jr smith drives and passes well
he forces some threes but so does manu

he can play more
spurs need someone to play that postion
paying a guy 10 million to do nothing really hurts a team especially one not owned by cuban

prince is not as clutch manu
but spurs have tp late now

manu hurts the team during the regular season because you have to limit his minutes so much
spurs have to find their roles on the team..

someone that is 80-90% close to manu is better then manu now because
manu will not be the manu back in 2005
and manu may be only 80% manu of 2005

Do any of those moves make the Spurs title contenders?

If not, I can't see trading Manu this summer. I know we won't see the 2005 Manu again, but I think the January, 2009 Manu gives the Spurs a better chance than anything they could get for him this summer. We won't know if he can play at the January, 2009 level until next season.

If he can't perform at a high level, the Spurs can choose between trading him at the deadline or preserving the cap space for next summer. They don't know enough now to make that kind of decision.

ducks

05-15-2009, 07:56 PM

does keeping manu make spurs title condenders?
manu has been hurt the last 2 playoffs

do spurs play him at all or just bench him to the allstar game?

not unless they do other things

he is not going to be able to create like he did before
spurs need to address this issue and get a guy to be a pitbull like the bird man

Knoxxx

05-15-2009, 07:57 PM

Do any of those moves make the Spurs title contenders?

If not, I can't see trading Manu this summer. I know we won't see the 2005 Manu again, but I think the January, 2009 Manu gives the Spurs a better chance than anything they could get for him this summer. We won't know if he can play at the January, 2009 level until next season.

If he can't perform at a high level, the Spurs can choose between trading him at the deadline or preserving the cap space for next summer. They don't know enough now to make that kind of decision.

Manu is an expiring contract and he likes S.A. If he has a great season, I think we can still resign him at a good value and let him play out his career here due to his age. If we could get him for 4 years at $20 million from 2010-2013, still effective with a slow steady decline during that time, how do you like him then?

Manu's injury means we probably don't get equal value for him. Our best bet is to hope he comes back and plays well, and if not we can always let him go after next year.

ducks

05-15-2009, 07:59 PM

why do you think spurs can resign him
spurs tried to before he went to play for his country
he said no then........................

ducks

05-15-2009, 07:59 PM

what is = value for manu?

manu 2005 sure you are not going to get that in return unless you deal with an idiot

ducks

05-15-2009, 08:01 PM

jr smith on the spurs right now
spurs would be still playing

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 08:03 PM

does keeping manu make spurs title condenders
not unless they do other things

he is not going to be able to create like he did before
spurs need to address this issue and get a guy to be a pitbull like the bird man

If he can play at the level he showed in January, 2009.

The Spurs were 32-12 with Manu. That's a 60-win pace.

They have to find out how much he still has left before they consider trading him. I could only see them trading him this summer for someone on the level of Bosh and I don't think Toronto makes that deal.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 08:03 PM

what is = value for manu?

manu 2005 sure you are not going to get that in return unless you deal with an idiot

We deal with you... can't get any worse than that...
I mean, JR Smith, Birdman or Prince make us contenders? WTF are you smoking?

Solid D

05-15-2009, 08:03 PM

why do you think spurs can resign him
spurs tried to before he went to play for his country
he said no then........................

I think you have that backwards and it was discussons about a contract extension.

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 08:04 PM

why do you think spurs can resign him
spurs tried to before he went to play for his country
he said no then........................

Spurs broke off negotiations, not Manu

ducks

05-15-2009, 08:05 PM

ElNono

05-15-2009, 08:06 PM

jr smith on the spurs right now
spurs would be still playing

No we wouldn't be. We have no second unit. Manu is our entire bench.
JR Smith is a brainless chucker. He's a high flyer, but has ZERO basketball IQ.

ducks

05-15-2009, 08:06 PM

I think you have that backwards and it was discussons about a contract extension.

yeah I know it was about a contract extenstiion
he refused.......................

ducks

05-15-2009, 08:07 PM

No we wouldn't be. We have no second unit. Manu is our entire bench.
JR Smith is a brainless chucker. He's a high flyer, but has ZERO basketball IQ.

jr smith would come off the bench
hello!

ElNono

05-15-2009, 08:07 PM

yeah I know it was about a contract extenstiion
he refused.......................

No he didn't. Spurs took the offer off the table.

ducks

05-15-2009, 08:07 PM

you have birdman and jr smith doing what they are doing this postseason with denver
spurs would have won a title as long as tp and duncan were playing the same level

ElNono

05-15-2009, 08:07 PM

jr smith would come off the bench
hello!

To do what? Jack up treys? Have you actually seen JR play?

ducks

05-15-2009, 08:08 PM

No he didn't. Spurs took the offer off the table.

because he would not sign

ElNono

05-15-2009, 08:09 PM

you have birdman and jr smith doing what they are doing this postseason with denver
spurs would have won a title as long as tp and duncan were playing the same level

I'm just glad you have no say whatsoever in talent evaluation...
Stick to nuthugging TP and leave Manu alone.

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 08:09 PM

the spurs need three star players healthy
if spurs can another player that stays healthy and puts up the same stats
spurs would be on the 60 win pace and still be healthy in playoffs
and have that swagger to win it all

So I go back to my first question: Who?

Prince doesn't meet the standard you set and there is no way the Nuggets package Smith's cap-friendly contract in deal for Manu.

So what star player that approximates Manu's 2009 production can the Spurs get for Manu?

ElNono

05-15-2009, 08:10 PM

because he would not sign

Nope.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 08:10 PM

JR Smith is not a star player... and neither is Birdman... I just don't know what ducks is smoking.

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 08:11 PM

because he would not sign

The offer was taken off the table when he refused to miss the Olympics

Knoxxx

05-15-2009, 08:18 PM

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 08:23 PM

Sad truth is our roster flat out sucked in the playoffs and we lost badly to a mediocre Dallas team.

Another sad truth is if Duncan can't move any better than Kurt Thomas next year, we are in trouble no matter what.

That is the elephant in the room. If the Duncan we see for the next three years is the Duncan we saw for most of March and April, we can start talking about the 2012 plan because there are no FO moves that can overcome that sad possibility.

Knoxxx

05-15-2009, 08:40 PM

That is the elephant in the room. If the Duncan we see for the next three years is the Duncan we saw for most of March and April, we can start talking about the 2012 plan because there are no FO moves that can overcome that sad possibility.

No joke. I was looking at some old highlights of Duncan, and it is amazing the difference. I mean I knew he was not right, but it amazing how light on his feet he was and he actually did have some hops. I hope he can get a little bit of that back, because the no-elevation, elbow-your-way-to-get-off-a-jumper Duncan I saw in the last game while gritty, was painful to watch.

NewJerSpur

05-15-2009, 08:59 PM

No joke. I was looking at some old highlights of Duncan, and it is amazing the difference. I mean I knew he was not right, but it amazing how light on his feet he was and he actually did have some hops. I hope he can get a little bit of that back, because the no-elevation, elbow-your-way-to-get-off-a-jumper Duncan I saw in the last game while gritty, was painful to watch.

The elevation might not get a lot better. Tim might just be moving into a stage in his career where he gets off more with straight up footwork and body positioning than anything else. He's still an elite player though and is one year removed from torching his way through the playoffs. He was kicking some major keister in the 3rd quarter of game 1 as well.

Solid D

05-15-2009, 09:08 PM

MmP

05-15-2009, 09:13 PM

Don't worry, I think know Manu will be wiser about his body. And no doubt that he'll come out stronger next season. And those trade Manu threads will be all gone.

BadOne

05-15-2009, 09:16 PM

That's plain wrong.
My apologies...when I said a whole bunch of people, I meant this forum and on Spursreport.com are saying this.

45 bank shot

05-15-2009, 09:20 PM

def not trade manu.
we should see what he can still provide this coming season

Knoxxx

05-15-2009, 09:26 PM

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Ginobili_undergoes_successful_operation_on_foot_he el.html

Express-News
9/04/2008

His agent, Herb Rudoy, confirmed the delay in negotiations for an extension.

“Contract negotiations for an extension have been put off until after the surgery,” Rudoy said. “The Spurs want to see how he recovers from the surgery.”

I remember that. What troubles me now is the new injury they didn't even have a gameplan to treat. I don't think the ankle surgery was that bad, just a nagging thing he could not ignore anymore. The Spurs would have been fools to resign Manu at his age when he might not be able to play at the same level again.

I think both Duncan and Ginobili need to focus on flexibility training, yoga, stretching, and getting plenty of rest. A little P90X wouldn't hurt either.

it's me

05-15-2009, 09:30 PM

Manu for Scola ...................:stirpot:

:lmao

superjames1992

05-15-2009, 10:30 PM

LOL at the Birdman and JR Smith making the Spurs Title Contenders. :lol

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:33 PM

JR Smith is not a star player... and neither is Birdman... I just don't know what ducks is smoking.

he is a star
not superstar
manu is no longer a superstar

Spursfan092120

05-15-2009, 10:36 PM

why do you think spurs can resign him
spurs tried to before he went to play for his country
he said no then........................
No...they didn't. The Spurs said they weren't going to sign him before he went to play. They wanted to renegotiate afterwards, in case he got hurt.

Spursfan092120

05-15-2009, 10:37 PM

he is a star
not superstar
manu is no longer a superstar
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2/ksp113/FOX Sports Blog Images/Haterade.gif

ElNono

05-15-2009, 10:39 PM

he is a star
not superstar

JR Smith is a Roger Mason without a conscience. He's a role player at best.

manu is no longer a superstar

Says who? you? :lmao
You sure were very quiet when he was putting up 30 point games before the fracture...

ElNono

05-15-2009, 10:40 PM

Maybe we should trade Tony for Birdman, JR Smith AND Prince...
Hill can run the point now, we don't need Tony anymore...

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:41 PM

JR Smith is a Roger Mason without a conscience. He's a role player at best.

Says who? you? :lmao
You sure were very quiet when he was putting up 30 point games before the fracture...

says his play

NewJerSpur

05-15-2009, 10:43 PM

Maybe we should trade Tony for Birdman, JR Smith AND Prince...
Hill can run the point now, we don't need Tony anymore...

:lol

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 10:45 PM

manu is no longer a superstar

Even if this true, do you know what level of play Manu will be capable of in the future?

ElNono

05-15-2009, 10:45 PM

says his play

His play says he was the Spurs top scorer while he was healthy...
Manu isn't going anywhere, much to your despair. I'm going to remind you every single time you bring the hate.

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:46 PM

His play says he was the Spurs top scorer while he was healthy...
Manu isn't going anywhere, much to your despair. I'm going to remind you every single time you bring the hate.

manu averaged 15 points a game
he was not the highscorer very offten

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:48 PM

Even if this true, do you know what level of play Manu will be capable of in the future?

I know spurs need him to be close to 2005 if spurs want to be heavy favored
to win it all

also for spurs to get someone great they have to trade a star to get a star
manu is the most expandable

the only way you trade tp is when duncan hungs it up and you can get 2 young stars for him

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:50 PM

manu averaged 15 points a game
he was not the highscorer very offten

very close to smith stats
but he was not injured very much

NewJerSpur

05-15-2009, 10:51 PM

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:53 PM

So you don't think Manu is good enough to stay, but he's good enough to bring back great talent in a trade?

offer other expiring contracts
his expiring contract
SHOP HIM
see what is out there
karl might ship out jr smith

spurs need a pitball
jr smith is one

vander

05-15-2009, 10:54 PM

I forget, do people get older as time moves forward, or younger?

NewJerSpur

05-15-2009, 10:55 PM

So if he returned to 2005 form, would you want to shop his expiring contract at some point during the season?

ElNono

05-15-2009, 10:56 PM

manu averaged 15 points a game
he was not the highscorer very offten

He was the Spurs top scorer last season.

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 10:56 PM

I know spurs need him to be close to 2005 if spurs want to be heavy favored
to win it all

also for spurs to get someone great they have to trade a star to get a star
manu is the most expandable

the only way you trade tp is when duncan hungs it up and you can get 2 young stars for him

And we go back around the circle again.

We know that 2005 Manu is gone.

With the 2008-09 Manu, the Spurs won at a 60-win pace.

What "star" can the Spurs get for Manu that makes them a 60-win team?

So far you have come up with Prince, who is nowhere near the player that Manu was last season and Smith, whose cap friendly contract and youth make him a very unlikely trade target.

So, I ask you once more:

What difference maker, what "star" can the Spurs get for a Manu whose future is so uncertain?

ElNono

05-15-2009, 10:57 PM

offer other expiring contracts
his expiring contract
SHOP HIM
see what is out there
karl might ship out jr smith

spurs need a pitball
jr smith is one

I disagree. I think we need to shop Tony. We can get more stars for him.
Maybe trade him to LA for Ariza, Odom and filler.

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:58 PM

SHOP HIM

they might be a gasol deal out there
or something close
he economy will hurt some teams
you have other expiring contracts you can sweeten the pot

jr smith is not a bad option either

ducks

05-15-2009, 10:59 PM

I disagree. I think we need to shop Tony. We can get more stars for him.
Maybe trade him to LA for Ariza, Odom and filler.

odom and ariza are fa's

odom is only happy starting
are you ok with that?
unmotivated at times to

ElNono

05-15-2009, 10:59 PM

JR Smith is not an option.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:00 PM

odom and ariza are fa's

Word is they're going to be re-signed.

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:00 PM

JR Smith is not an option.

why
he has a tat?
most pitbulls do

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:01 PM

odom and ariza are fa's

odom is only happy starting
are you ok with that?
unmotivated at times to

Sure, why not. Who starts at his spot anyways? Finley?
Maybe we get Bynum instead of Odom.

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:01 PM

Word is they're going to be re-signed.

can not trade for them tell you find out how much they overpay them:lol:lol:lol:lol

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:02 PM

Sure, why not. Who starts at his spot anyways? Finley?
Maybe we get Bynum instead of Odom.

yeah trade for his injury prone body
spurs have enough with manu

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:02 PM

why
he has a tat?
most pitbulls do

No, he doesn't know how to play basketball. That's why he handed us a series two seasons ago.
Did you know Karl doesn't even talk to him? You know how long is he going to last with Pop around?

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:04 PM

yeah trade for his injury prone body
spurs have enough with manu

Tim is injury prone too. We should have dealt him before we won the last 3 championships.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:04 PM

Trade the FINALS MVP and YOUNGEST of the big three for

ARIZA... who is getting owned by the Rockets perimeter players

or ODEM who has YET TO SHOW UP FOR HIS CAREER

Ever heard of the phrase "your mortgaging Your FUTURE"

Fucking TWIT

You don't need to duck, it went right over your head anyways.

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:04 PM

No, he doesn't know how to play basketball. That's why he handed us a series two seasons ago.
Did you know Karl doesn't even talk to him? You know how long is he going to last with Pop around?

you hear pop
about manu
he let the reigns out
he drives pop insane many times
force three's
pop handled sj
sj is worse

pop is a much better
and respected coach then karl

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:05 PM

No, he doesn't know how to play basketball. That's why he handed us a series two seasons ago.
Did you know Karl doesn't even talk to him? You know how long is he going to last with Pop around?

jr smith is alot better then 2 years ago and manu is worse then 2 years ago

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 11:06 PM

You don't need to duck, it went right over your head anyways.

:lol

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:07 PM

you hear pop
about manu
he let the reigns out
he drives pop insane many times
force three's
pop handled sj
sj is worse

pop is a much better
and respected coach then karl

No, SJAX is not worse. And Manu gets the ball at end of games for a reason.
Again, are you going to deny that JR Smith handed us a playoff series in '07?
So much as Karl having to sit his ass and tell him he disrespected the game of basketball?
Furthermore, this is a guy that spits on women, and have killed a person driving recklessly. WTF ducks? Do you know who you're talking about?

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:11 PM

jr smith is alot better then 2 years ago and manu is worse then 2 years ago

Not really. His stats have barely changed. Not to mention he was part of the Denver team that got swept by the Lakers last year.
Billups is making everyone look better in Denver right now.

Ghazi

05-15-2009, 11:11 PM

ducks is a dumbass

Solid D

05-15-2009, 11:12 PM

he is a star
not superstar
manu is no longer a superstar

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&pos=all&seasonType=3&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26pos%3dall %26seasonType%3d3

Playoffs 2009

Hollinger Playoff Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - All Positions
RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, CLE 8 39.3 .644 19.9 4.8 31.8 4.0 26.5 16.0 41.61 145.8 4.9
2 Tony Parker, SAS 5 36.2 .588 19.2 11.9 35.2 0.6 14.1 7.0 29.35 49.6 1.7
3 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 10 39.4 .635 11.7 8.7 24.4 3.9 26.6 15.8 28.35 99.1 3.3
4 Tim Duncan, SAS 5 32.8 .554 14.2 6.2 25.7 8.5 21.8 14.8 27.31 40.9 1.4
5 Chauncey Billups, DEN 10 37.5 .716 29.9 7.0 20.1 1.0 11.5 6.2 26.96 89.3 3.0
6 Dwight Howard, ORL 11 38.2 .628 6.4 13.2 19.9 15.6 38.5 26.8 26.69 100.8 3.4
7 Carmelo Anthony, DEN 10 37.9 .576 14.5 6.7 27.3 5.5 15.3 10.4 26.40 89.9 3.0
8 Dwyane Wade, MIA 7 40.7 .565 15.3 10.3 32.6 1.9 12.8 7.8 26.34 67.4 2.2
9 Brandon Roy, POR 6 39.7 .562 9.9 7.5 28.5 2.9 13.3 7.7 25.90 54.7 1.8
10 Kobe Bryant, LAL 11 39.6 .553 13.5 8.0 29.1 1.9 11.9 6.9 25.22 95.8 3.2
11 Brandon Bass, DAL 10 19.2 .638 8.3 4.7 16.4 8.7 17.2 13.1 22.75 32.2 1.1
12 Yao Ming, HOU 9 35.9 .634 6.1 11.5 17.7 7.3 28.0 18.1 21.62 53.1 1.8
13 Jermaine O'Neal, MIA 6 27.0 .615 10.7 11.9 20.6 5.9 14.5 10.5 21.55 26.5 0.9
14 Pau Gasol, LAL 11 38.7 .594 11.6 9.8 17.9 9.8 19.8 14.9 21.22 63.7 2.1
15 J.R. Smith, DEN 10 26.9 .610 14.6 7.6 22.1 2.3 13.3 7.8 20.91 41.8 1.4

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&pos=all&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26pos%3dall %26seasonType%3d2

Regular Season 2008-09

Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - All Positions
RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, CLE 81 37.7 .591 21.1 8.7 32.2 4.3 19.0 11.9 31.76 969.2 32.3
2 Dwyane Wade, MIA 79 38.6 .574 20.0 9.3 34.1 3.5 12.2 7.8 30.46 908.1 30.3
3 Chris Paul, NOR 78 38.5 .599 33.4 9.0 27.9 2.8 14.6 8.7 30.04 853.2 28.4
4 Dwight Howard, ORL 79 35.7 .600 6.6 14.1 23.0 13.8 29.5 21.8 25.44 624.8 20.8
5 Tim Duncan, SAS 75 33.6 .549 15.1 9.4 26.0 9.6 27.9 18.9 24.51 523.6 17.5
6 Kobe Bryant, LAL 82 36.1 .561 15.5 8.2 30.2 3.5 12.8 8.2 24.46 616.7 20.6
7 Brandon Roy, POR 78 37.2 .573 19.1 7.3 26.5 4.4 11.6 7.9 24.08 588.4 19.6
8 Tony Parker, SAS 72 34.1 .556 23.6 8.8 30.1 1.3 9.4 5.4 23.47 457.0 15.2
9 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 81 37.7 .564 8.9 7.1 27.3 3.3 22.1 12.8 23.20 532.4 17.7
10 Al Jefferson, MIN 50 36.7 .532 6.3 7.3 26.2 10.6 24.9 17.5 23.16 344.1 11.5
11 Manu Ginobili, SAS 44 26.8 .594 19.2 10.7 25.2 2.5 17.3 10.0 22.93 219.0 7.3
12 Yao Ming, HOU 77 33.6 .618 8.6 14.7 23.6 9.6 24.1 17.1 22.74 469.2 15.6
13 Shaquille O'Neal, PHO 75 30.0 .623 9.2 12.3 21.7 10.1 22.3 16.4 22.33 394.3 13.1
14 Pau Gasol, LAL 81 37.0 .617 16.9 9.4 19.3 10.0 19.3 14.7 22.31 497.3 16.6
15 Chris Bosh, TOR 77 38.0 .569 10.1 9.2 24.1 8.7 22.1 15.5 22.19 467.0 15.6

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:12 PM

Nope your a stupid pis in his mouth Douche...

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/40/stfu_noob.jpg

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:13 PM

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&pos=all&seasonType=3&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26pos%3dall %26seasonType%3d3

Playoffs 2009

Hollinger Playoff Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - All Positions
RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, CLE 8 39.3 .644 19.9 4.8 31.8 4.0 26.5 16.0 41.61 145.8 4.9
2 Tony Parker, SAS 5 36.2 .588 19.2 11.9 35.2 0.6 14.1 7.0 29.35 49.6 1.7
3 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 10 39.4 .635 11.7 8.7 24.4 3.9 26.6 15.8 28.35 99.1 3.3
4 Tim Duncan, SAS 5 32.8 .554 14.2 6.2 25.7 8.5 21.8 14.8 27.31 40.9 1.4
5 Chauncey Billups, DEN 10 37.5 .716 29.9 7.0 20.1 1.0 11.5 6.2 26.96 89.3 3.0
6 Dwight Howard, ORL 11 38.2 .628 6.4 13.2 19.9 15.6 38.5 26.8 26.69 100.8 3.4
7 Carmelo Anthony, DEN 10 37.9 .576 14.5 6.7 27.3 5.5 15.3 10.4 26.40 89.9 3.0
8 Dwyane Wade, MIA 7 40.7 .565 15.3 10.3 32.6 1.9 12.8 7.8 26.34 67.4 2.2
9 Brandon Roy, POR 6 39.7 .562 9.9 7.5 28.5 2.9 13.3 7.7 25.90 54.7 1.8
10 Kobe Bryant, LAL 11 39.6 .553 13.5 8.0 29.1 1.9 11.9 6.9 25.22 95.8 3.2
11 Brandon Bass, DAL 10 19.2 .638 8.3 4.7 16.4 8.7 17.2 13.1 22.75 32.2 1.1
12 Yao Ming, HOU 9 35.9 .634 6.1 11.5 17.7 7.3 28.0 18.1 21.62 53.1 1.8
13 Jermaine O'Neal, MIA 6 27.0 .615 10.7 11.9 20.6 5.9 14.5 10.5 21.55 26.5 0.9
14 Pau Gasol, LAL 11 38.7 .594 11.6 9.8 17.9 9.8 19.8 14.9 21.22 63.7 2.1
15 J.R. Smith, DEN 10 26.9 .610 14.6 7.6 22.1 2.3 13.3 7.8 20.91 41.8 1.4

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&pos=all&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26pos%3dall %26seasonType%3d2

Regular Season 2008-09

Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - All Positions
RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, CLE 81 37.7 .591 21.1 8.7 32.2 4.3 19.0 11.9 31.76 969.2 32.3
2 Dwyane Wade, MIA 79 38.6 .574 20.0 9.3 34.1 3.5 12.2 7.8 30.46 908.1 30.3
3 Chris Paul, NOR 78 38.5 .599 33.4 9.0 27.9 2.8 14.6 8.7 30.04 853.2 28.4
4 Dwight Howard, ORL 79 35.7 .600 6.6 14.1 23.0 13.8 29.5 21.8 25.44 624.8 20.8
5 Tim Duncan, SAS 75 33.6 .549 15.1 9.4 26.0 9.6 27.9 18.9 24.51 523.6 17.5
6 Kobe Bryant, LAL 82 36.1 .561 15.5 8.2 30.2 3.5 12.8 8.2 24.46 616.7 20.6
7 Brandon Roy, POR 78 37.2 .573 19.1 7.3 26.5 4.4 11.6 7.9 24.08 588.4 19.6
8 Tony Parker, SAS 72 34.1 .556 23.6 8.8 30.1 1.3 9.4 5.4 23.47 457.0 15.2
9 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 81 37.7 .564 8.9 7.1 27.3 3.3 22.1 12.8 23.20 532.4 17.7
10 Al Jefferson, MIN 50 36.7 .532 6.3 7.3 26.2 10.6 24.9 17.5 23.16 344.1 11.5
11 Manu Ginobili, SAS 44 26.8 .594 19.2 10.7 25.2 2.5 17.3 10.0 22.93 219.0 7.3 12 Yao Ming, HOU 77 33.6 .618 8.6 14.7 23.6 9.6 24.1 17.1 22.74 469.2 15.6
13 Shaquille O'Neal, PHO 75 30.0 .623 9.2 12.3 21.7 10.1 22.3 16.4 22.33 394.3 13.1
14 Pau Gasol, LAL 81 37.0 .617 16.9 9.4 19.3 10.0 19.3 14.7 22.31 497.3 16.6
15 Chris Bosh, TOR 77 38.0 .569 10.1 9.2 24.1 8.7 22.1 15.5 22.19 467.0 15.6

Don't expect ducks understand what you just posted...

Solid D

05-15-2009, 11:15 PM

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&pos=all&seasonType=3&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26pos%3dall %26seasonType%3d3

Playoffs 2009

Hollinger Playoff Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - All Positions
RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, CLE 8 39.3 .644 19.9 4.8 31.8 4.0 26.5 16.0 41.61 145.8 4.9
2 Tony Parker, SAS 5 36.2 .588 19.2 11.9 35.2 0.6 14.1 7.0 29.35 49.6 1.7
3 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 10 39.4 .635 11.7 8.7 24.4 3.9 26.6 15.8 28.35 99.1 3.3
4 Tim Duncan, SAS 5 32.8 .554 14.2 6.2 25.7 8.5 21.8 14.8 27.31 40.9 1.4
5 Chauncey Billups, DEN 10 37.5 .716 29.9 7.0 20.1 1.0 11.5 6.2 26.96 89.3 3.0
6 Dwight Howard, ORL 11 38.2 .628 6.4 13.2 19.9 15.6 38.5 26.8 26.69 100.8 3.4
7 Carmelo Anthony, DEN 10 37.9 .576 14.5 6.7 27.3 5.5 15.3 10.4 26.40 89.9 3.0
8 Dwyane Wade, MIA 7 40.7 .565 15.3 10.3 32.6 1.9 12.8 7.8 26.34 67.4 2.2
9 Brandon Roy, POR 6 39.7 .562 9.9 7.5 28.5 2.9 13.3 7.7 25.90 54.7 1.8
10 Kobe Bryant, LAL 11 39.6 .553 13.5 8.0 29.1 1.9 11.9 6.9 25.22 95.8 3.2
11 Brandon Bass, DAL 10 19.2 .638 8.3 4.7 16.4 8.7 17.2 13.1 22.75 32.2 1.1
12 Yao Ming, HOU 9 35.9 .634 6.1 11.5 17.7 7.3 28.0 18.1 21.62 53.1 1.8
13 Jermaine O'Neal, MIA 6 27.0 .615 10.7 11.9 20.6 5.9 14.5 10.5 21.55 26.5 0.9
14 Pau Gasol, LAL 11 38.7 .594 11.6 9.8 17.9 9.8 19.8 14.9 21.22 63.7 2.1
15 J.R. Smith, DEN 10 26.9 .610 14.6 7.6 22.1 2.3 13.3 7.8 20.91 41.8 1.4

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&pos=all&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26pos%3dall %26seasonType%3d2

Regular Season 2008-09

Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - All Positions
RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, CLE 81 37.7 .591 21.1 8.7 32.2 4.3 19.0 11.9 31.76 969.2 32.3
2 Dwyane Wade, MIA 79 38.6 .574 20.0 9.3 34.1 3.5 12.2 7.8 30.46 908.1 30.3
3 Chris Paul, NOR 78 38.5 .599 33.4 9.0 27.9 2.8 14.6 8.7 30.04 853.2 28.4
4 Dwight Howard, ORL 79 35.7 .600 6.6 14.1 23.0 13.8 29.5 21.8 25.44 624.8 20.8
5 Tim Duncan, SAS 75 33.6 .549 15.1 9.4 26.0 9.6 27.9 18.9 24.51 523.6 17.5
6 Kobe Bryant, LAL 82 36.1 .561 15.5 8.2 30.2 3.5 12.8 8.2 24.46 616.7 20.6
7 Brandon Roy, POR 78 37.2 .573 19.1 7.3 26.5 4.4 11.6 7.9 24.08 588.4 19.6
8 Tony Parker, SAS 72 34.1 .556 23.6 8.8 30.1 1.3 9.4 5.4 23.47 457.0 15.2
9 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 81 37.7 .564 8.9 7.1 27.3 3.3 22.1 12.8 23.20 532.4 17.7
10 Al Jefferson, MIN 50 36.7 .532 6.3 7.3 26.2 10.6 24.9 17.5 23.16 344.1 11.5
11 Manu Ginobili, SAS 44 26.8 .594 19.2 10.7 25.2 2.5 17.3 10.0 22.93 219.0 7.3
12 Yao Ming, HOU 77 33.6 .618 8.6 14.7 23.6 9.6 24.1 17.1 22.74 469.2 15.6
13 Shaquille O'Neal, PHO 75 30.0 .623 9.2 12.3 21.7 10.1 22.3 16.4 22.33 394.3 13.1
14 Pau Gasol, LAL 81 37.0 .617 16.9 9.4 19.3 10.0 19.3 14.7 22.31 497.3 16.6
15 Chris Bosh, TOR 77 38.0 .569 10.1 9.2 24.1 8.7 22.1 15.5 22.19 467.0 15.6

I'd say Manu is among superstar company, Dr. ducks.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:15 PM

I don't see Prince, Birdman or JR Smith in that list... :rolleyes

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:20 PM

Yep Pencil him in for 50 good games....

with a playoff appearance questionable...

Did Manu teabag your wife/gf? I don't get the hate for a guy that has played all out for 7 seasons and helped us win 3 championships. A guy that's still top 20 in the league.

Whatever dude.

Knoxxx

05-15-2009, 11:28 PM

I think it is a bit early to write off Manu. He played fine for a stretch early this year. In the Olympics, he was the leading scorer of any player on any team and looked great before the ankle gave out against team USA. Let's see what a good several months of rest and reconditioning can do for him. It was only last year that he was having a career year and led the team in scoring. Sure he might not get back quite to that level, but anything close and we will all be happy he is around.

Bottom line: he deserves a chance to go out better than this, and as a Spur if it works out for a contract extension.

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:35 PM

I don't see Prince, Birdman or JR Smith in that list... :rolleyes

jr smith is on the playoff list:hat

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:36 PM

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:38 PM

this is not charity
he could have signed an extension but refuses to so he could play

He didn't refuse anything. Are you this slow? There was nothing out there for him to refuse.

NewJerSpur

05-15-2009, 11:38 PM

jr smith is on the playoff list:hat

He's not going to be a Spur. Get over it.

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:38 PM

Yep Pencil him in for 50 good games....

with a playoff appearance questionable...

truth hits these
people
they like to barrel their heads in the sand and pray manu can play in playoffs

so spurs front office should shop manu to see if they can get a player like him that can play 82 games and playoffs

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:40 PM

He didn't refuse anything. Are you this slow? There was nothing out there for him to refuse.

yes he did
had he not played for his country
he would had signed his extension

TMTTRIO

05-15-2009, 11:41 PM

I'm not giving up on Manu. Yes he has been very injury prone for a little over a year now but people forget that before that he was having the best season yet with the Spurs and was named All-NBA 3rd Team and 6MOY. He was even playing well before he found out about the hairline fracture. I heard some doctors and they said with rest he should be just fine next year (especially with the longer summer). I'd be more concerned if it was an injury where it was chronic and never going to go away. I think I'm more concerned about Tim's knees. Yes Manu might not be as good as he was in '05 and he probably is starting to go downhill but I still believe that he can bring all the intangibles and contribute some of what he's brought us all these years and has made him the fierce competitor that he is. Besides if we don't want him and want to get rid of him why would anyone else want him from us? I actually believe that all the rest and rehab he'll get this summer he'll come back and have a great year. After that it'll be interesting to see if the Spurs and Manu part ways. If all the former Spurs seem to torcher us imagine what Manu would do as the competitor that he is.

ducks

05-15-2009, 11:41 PM

He's not going to be a Spur. Get over it.

if smith is so uncoachable why would denver not trade him for manu?

NewJerSpur

05-15-2009, 11:44 PM

if smith is so uncoachable why would denver not trade him for manu?

Even if he can be reckless both on and off the court, they gave him an extension so obviously they feel he has upside and they're probably HOPING now that Chauncey will rub off on him in the long run in more ways than one....though it's not money in the bank IMO.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:44 PM

yes he did
had he not played for his country
he would had signed his extension

There was no extension. His agent and the Spurs were negotiating an extension. The Spurs stopped negotiating when he decided to go to the Olympics. There was nothing to sign.
The day the Spurs offer him an actual extension we can talk about him wanting to sign one.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:47 PM

if smith is so uncoachable why would denver not trade him for manu?

JR Smith is not even a top 50 player in this league. I don't know why you have such a boner for the guy.
Here is a list that Solid D just posted of talent comparable to Manu.
Who do you realistically think we can get from this list?

Regular Season 2008-09

Hollinger Stats: Player Efficiency Rating - All Positions
RNK Player GP Min TS% Ast TO Usg ORR DRR RebR PER VA EWA
1 LeBron James, CLE 81 37.7 .591 21.1 8.7 32.2 4.3 19.0 11.9 31.76 969.2 32.3
2 Dwyane Wade, MIA 79 38.6 .574 20.0 9.3 34.1 3.5 12.2 7.8 30.46 908.1 30.3
3 Chris Paul, NOR 78 38.5 .599 33.4 9.0 27.9 2.8 14.6 8.7 30.04 853.2 28.4
4 Dwight Howard, ORL 79 35.7 .600 6.6 14.1 23.0 13.8 29.5 21.8 25.44 624.8 20.8
5 Tim Duncan, SAS 75 33.6 .549 15.1 9.4 26.0 9.6 27.9 18.9 24.51 523.6 17.5
6 Kobe Bryant, LAL 82 36.1 .561 15.5 8.2 30.2 3.5 12.8 8.2 24.46 616.7 20.6
7 Brandon Roy, POR 78 37.2 .573 19.1 7.3 26.5 4.4 11.6 7.9 24.08 588.4 19.6
8 Tony Parker, SAS 72 34.1 .556 23.6 8.8 30.1 1.3 9.4 5.4 23.47 457.0 15.2
9 Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 81 37.7 .564 8.9 7.1 27.3 3.3 22.1 12.8 23.20 532.4 17.7
10 Al Jefferson, MIN 50 36.7 .532 6.3 7.3 26.2 10.6 24.9 17.5 23.16 344.1 11.5
11 Manu Ginobili, SAS 44 26.8 .594 19.2 10.7 25.2 2.5 17.3 10.0 22.93 219.0 7.3
12 Yao Ming, HOU 77 33.6 .618 8.6 14.7 23.6 9.6 24.1 17.1 22.74 469.2 15.6
13 Shaquille O'Neal, PHO 75 30.0 .623 9.2 12.3 21.7 10.1 22.3 16.4 22.33 394.3 13.1
14 Pau Gasol, LAL 81 37.0 .617 16.9 9.4 19.3 10.0 19.3 14.7 22.31 497.3 16.6
15 Chris Bosh, TOR 77 38.0 .569 10.1 9.2 24.1 8.7 22.1 15.5 22.19 467.0 15.6

Knoxxx

05-15-2009, 11:47 PM

Is seems some are still holding a grudge over Manu playing in the olympics. If you were part of that great Argentina team you probably would have done the same. Anyway that is over. This is not charity, Manu has to earn his money just like we all do. I think we can get him renewed for a cap friendly price and he will be a great asset for 3-5 more years. We might even get Duncan at a cut rate before he is done, imagine what type of team we might put together then, with our 3 plus a couple real contributors, minor stars perhaps even.

Mel_13

05-15-2009, 11:49 PM

truth hits these
people
they like to barrel their heads in the sand and pray manu can play in playoffs

so spurs front office should shop manu to see if they can get a player like him that can play 82 games and playoffs

If the Spurs can exchange Manu for an equal or better player that is more likely to last a full season that would be fine.

But you still haven't answered the question.

Who is this player that can play as well as Manu did last year and would be available from his team in a trade for Manu?

His trade value is diminished due to his health status, with much of his value based on the size of his expiring contract. The value of that expiring contract will not decrease as we approach the trade deadline next season. Trading him now would be trading him while his value is low. Waiting can only increase that value. The Spurs will also have a much better idea as to Tim's capabilities going forward as the season progresses and will, therefore, be better able to assess the team's future needs.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:57 PM

so spurs front office should shop manu to see if they can get a player like him that can play 82 games and playoffs

There are tons of players that can play 82 games and playoffs. There's just very few players that give you what Manu does to get you closer to a championship.

ElNono

05-15-2009, 11:59 PM

His trade value is diminished due to his health status, with much of his value based on the size of his expiring contract. The value of that expiring contract will not decrease as we approach the trade deadline next season. Trading him now would be trading him while his value is low. Waiting can only increase that value. The Spurs will also have a much better idea as to Tim's capabilities going forward as the season progresses and will, therefore, be better able to assess the team's future needs.

Agreed. And if he turns out to be fine and healthy, then the Spurs can make a better decision as to wether trade his expiring, or offer an extension in their terms. If he isn't, then his value is not very different than right now.

Capt Bringdown

05-16-2009, 12:06 AM

ElNono

05-16-2009, 12:08 AM

If fanboy loyalty and rose-colored sentimentality is our guide, maybe we should sign George Gervin.

Manu wasn't able to perform in 2 straight playoffs. To add insult to injury, this year's failure was compounded by Manu's "fuck you, Spurs" decision to play in the Olympics.

All the fanboys can do is talk about what happened years ago. The dude is done, there's no more SuperManu or Big 3, it's time to move on. The time to cling to false hopes is over, we've done that the last 2 seasons. It's time to be ruthless and go forward.

Go where? You like to talk to move on, but you don't offer anything...
I'm not against moving Manu, I just don't think you can get equal value, nor I think it's the right time to do it.
But if you do think so, let's hear it. What top 30 NBA player would you trade for Manu that would give us what he gives us.

superjames1992

05-16-2009, 12:25 AM

If fanboy loyalty and rose-colored sentimentality is our guide, maybe we should sign George Gervin.

Manu wasn't able to perform in 2 straight playoffs. To add insult to injury, this year's failure was compounded by Manu's "fuck you, Spurs" decision to play in the Olympics.

All the fanboys can do is talk about what happened years ago. The dude is done, there's no more SuperManu or Big 3, it's time to move on. The time to cling to false hopes is over, we've done that the last 2 seasons. It's time to be ruthless and go forward.
WTF is you people's problem with Manu playing in the Olympics? I don't see you all openly condemning Timmy and Tony for doing so. He wants to play for his country; what's wrong with that???

And how do you know that he's done? There is absolutely no indication of that. He was great this season and a game-changer when he was healthy. He is the Spurs' Mr. Clutch. He is the guy that gets the ball in the closing seconds, not Timmy or Tony.

Capt Bringdown

05-16-2009, 12:27 AM

Capt Bringdown

05-16-2009, 12:30 AM

WTF is you people's problem with Manu playing in the Olympics? I don't see you all openly condemning Timmy and Tony for doing so. He wants to play for his country; what's wrong with that???

Tony and Tim were not coming off injuries that prevented them from playing in the playoffs. Nothing wrong with playing for your country. However, it doesn't mean one is immune from the consequences. He'd already done the National team gig to the limit, Manu's decision to play in the Olympics was selfish and foolish.

ElNono

05-16-2009, 12:40 AM

Vince Carter would have been nice, and I agree with some of the earlier suggestions on this thread. The Spurs need to shop him for their needs - maybe they won't find a 1-to-1 trade deal for so-called "equal value" (what is Manu's value now as a injury prone player?), but perhaps there are multi-player package deals that would work.

That's the whole point, his trade value right now is way low, that's why you don't trade him right now. You wait to see how he recovers, and go from there. His value isn't getting any lower than right now.

Are you T-Park, Nono? If not, way to copy his material, i.e. "Name someone, name someone, yada yada."

Fuck no I'm not T-Park. And I'm not copying any material. I'm asking a serious question. Everybody want to trade Manu/Bonner/Oberto and rarely say for who. And when they do, they won't even tell you why the other team would do it, or wether salaries match.

Wishful thinking is easy. Actually coming up with a trade that works is a lot more complicated.

ElNono

05-16-2009, 12:42 AM

Tony and Tim were not coming off injuries that prevented them from playing in the playoffs. Nothing wrong with playing for your country. However, it doesn't mean one is immune from the consequences. He'd already done the National team gig to the limit, Manu's decision to play in the Olympics was selfish and foolish.

He recovered from his injury fine. He then played over 50% of the season and fractured his OTHER leg. Injuries happen. Get over it.

Riverwalkman

05-16-2009, 12:54 AM

jr smith would come off the bench
hello!

Yes he would but he wouldn't be another Ginobili to lead spurs bench,is he reliable?I don't think so.

If our trade target is Jr Smith, to be honest, I'd rather Ginobili stay.

Knoxxx

05-16-2009, 01:02 AM

There is still a chance hear that Manu comes back as good as ever. Meanwhile, the point is well made, why would anyone give us anything good for him? They would just try to rip us off and I don't see much upside.

manu the best

05-16-2009, 01:44 AM

[quote=Rodney21a;3397854]Hey I understand your passion.

But the player you used to know as Manu hasn't been around the last 2 years. So it not likely that this guy

excuse me ... he is the guy who got us through new Orleans last playoffs .. yes he was injured but he was productive .. he was nightmare for phx and hor .. and why are we only pointing at manu .. tim is also injured .. why not trade him(just for a thought) ...

MANU=:lobt2:

024

05-16-2009, 02:01 AM

ginobili has had three injuries the past year. one during the 2008 playoffs, one during the summer olympics, one after returning from injury, and a fourth one if you count the season ending one. that's a lot and he's aging. can't be in denial here, ginobili will be a question mark the rest of his career. doesn't mean he can't stay uninjured but there definitely should be some concern here.

BG_Spurs_Fan

05-16-2009, 02:05 AM

I bet Manu plays out of his mind next season, then gets a minor injury and misses 2 games around january, and all the haters showing up from their holes to tell us how they were right.

superjames1992

05-16-2009, 02:22 AM

I think we need to shop Timmy then. His knee injury may be chronic, so we better trade him while his stock is still up! Maybe we can get the Birdman in return! Sounds like a good trade to me! :lol

SA210

05-16-2009, 02:34 AM

Manu is the heart and fire of this team. He plays with more heart than ANYONE. He stays!

mosdef17

05-16-2009, 03:29 AM

you have birdman and jr smith doing what they are doing this postseason with denver
spurs would have won a title as long as tp and duncan were playing the same level

Sorry buddy, but all your posts have been silly and I am thankful that you have no power within the Spurs organisation. Ginobili is simply one of a kind and I would not trade him for Tayshaun, JR or even someone like Jason Richardson. You can't say we now have Tony to close games for us because they are like incomparable when discussing a true closer. Behind LeBron, Kobe and Wade I think Ginobili would be the next best closer in the league simply because he is unguardable. His awkward steps through the lane will lead to either a layup or free throws where he is 88%, and would be something like 95% in the clutch. Or, if he wants, he can use his deadly outside shot or great passing to punish you. Remember the Phoenix double overtime game 1 in last years playoffs? He fired that pass off to Time for 3 and then in double overtime drove in for that game winning layup.

If we had Chris Anderson and JR Smith we would still be playing?? Now THAT is a joke. Chris Anderson has been in foul trouble this entire playoffs because he jumps at everything, he is not a good defender, just has athletic ability and likes to swing his arms a lot. Just cause you average a lot of blocks doesn't make you a good defender. Barely was on the court this series against the Mavs... Adding him and JR Smith (who I am a HUGE fan of) would not have taken us to the Western Conference Finals, thats just a silly statement. JR, while he is pretty damn good and shoot the hell out of it, is not anywhere near enough to replace Ginobili.

I hate it when people undervalue Ginobili, never thought I would hear a Spurs fan doing it...

v2freak

05-16-2009, 04:04 AM

WTF is you people's problem with Manu playing in the Olympics? I don't see you all openly condemning Timmy and Tony for doing so. He wants to play for his country; what's wrong with that???

And how do you know that he's done? There is absolutely no indication of that. He was great this season and a game-changer when he was healthy. He is the Spurs' Mr. Clutch. He is the guy that gets the ball in the closing seconds, not Timmy or Tony.

What do you mean 'you people' ?? lol
Capt Bringdown's point about how this is different is valid. To tell him to 'get over it' would mean equality - you would have to 'get over' all of his past achievements with the Spurs. That is the truth about Ginobili: his style of play and his decision making are tied together to make up the #20 we know, or used to know.

I would put him on the block and entertain some offers. But if nothing comes around, then fine. Like ElNono said, his trade value is probably quite low.

holcs50

05-16-2009, 04:45 AM

Guys trading him now would be really stupid. No one is going to give up a valuable young player for manu who has been injured over and over again the last few years. You give him the whole off-season to get better and most likely he will come back as strong as he's been in a long time.

Absolutely no reason we shouldn't shop our other expiring contracts first and see if we can get anything that will help out. Manu's potential to come back healthy and have a few more reak good years is too much of a risk to give up for a lousy trade where we get crap back.

Ultimately, if when he comes back and plays healthy there is a significant slow down in his step, then we can look around. No matter what he'll still produce and people will be much more inclined to give up something if he can stay healthy for a while.

Oh and I saw some ridiculous trade options in here....manu for Tayshaun prince???!!!???? WTF....do you guys have any idea how he just played against the cavs in their series. Guy is not very good anymore, (personally i never thought he was, but that's another discussion)he is someone you get off a trade for expiring contracts like KT,Bonner, Bowen, etc.....NOT manu ginobili.

roycrikside

05-16-2009, 05:26 AM

I can't believe anyone out here is wasting time and energy arguing with Ducks. It's been long documented that Manu is his least favorite player in the NBA. Forget trading him for JR Smith. The Spurs could just outright release Manu and Ducks would be ecstatic. He HATES Manu and always has. Why does anyone bother trying to find reason or logic in any of his posts? He hates Manu, loves Tony and that's that.

All you need to know about Ducks is he wouldn't trade Tony for LeBron straight up. Even the most biased Manu fan would trade him for LeBron at this point.

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 07:02 AM

Listen Up Boys and Girls and Learn.

This Is mookie Blaylock

He was traded in 99 for the 10th Pick in the NBA draft of 99. A late Lottery pick The Atlanta Hawks were cumming of a 50 plus win season

That Pick just happened to be

Jason Terry

This has been a lesson on to show that a Player with Manu's Rep, injured or not, CAN bring the Spurs a High draft pick THIS YEAR.

Presumably you think you have made some point with this and the other attention-seeking, graphic-intensive posts you seem to be fond of. But mostly they serve to support the other point of view. Your point of view seems to be that trading Manu to get a late lottery pick would be a good long-term move for the Spurs.

And you use the Blaylock trade as your prime example. So the Hawks traded Blaylock to move up 11 spots in the draft. How'd that work out for them?

Before the trade, they made the playoffs for seven straight years with a minumum winning percentage of .524. After the trade, they missed the playoffs for eight straight years with a maximum winning percentage of .427. They went from being a perennial playoff team to being a perennial lottery team.

How exactly does this support your point of view?

See if you can come up with a response that does not involve video clips of the bodily functions of lower primates.

BG_Spurs_Fan

05-16-2009, 07:07 AM

Presumably you think you have made some point with this and the other attention-seeking, graphic-intensive posts you seem to be fond of. But mostly they serve to support the other point of view. Your point of view seems to be that trading Manu to get a late lottery pick would be a good long-term move for the Spurs.

And you use the Blaylock trade as your prime example. So the Hawks traded Blaylock to move up 11 spots in the draft. How'd that work out for them?

Before the trade, they made the playoffs for seven straight years with a minumum winning percentage of .524. After the trade, they missed the playoffs for eight straight years with a maximum winning percentage of .427. They went from being a perennial playoff team to being a perennial lottery team.

How exactly does this support your point of view?

See if you can come up with a response that does not involve video clips of the bodily functions of lower primates.

Dude, you're arguing with a 12 year old. I'm sure he hasn't even seen Mookie play.

Other than that I agree with you that the point he's trying to make works 100% against his ( if there is ) point of view.

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 07:09 AM

Dude, you're arguing with a 12 year old. I'm sure he hasn't even seen Mookie play.

Other than that I agree with you that the point he's trying to make works 100% against his ( if there is ) point of view.

Maybe his mommy will take away his internet privileges. :lol

kace

05-16-2009, 07:13 AM

i hope manu will be there next year because when healthy he brings very useful and priceless things to this team. and this team is about the big three. it has worked better than anyone could hope and i don't see any reason to change it.

that being said, i find it very lame that some manu fans try to deny he's a very fragile player.

manu came in NBA when he was in his prime, at 25, and still he's only averaged +30 mpg only one season. i always remember his minutes being very cautiously managed by Pop and his health and stamina have been one of the most discussed topic in this board, as if he was made of glass.

but right now, i have the feeling and the faith he will have a great season. i don't see his pure basketball level declining very soon, supposing his heatlh won't betray him again.

to say the truth, and contrarily at the most common thought on this board, i'm more concerned about tim decline. i trust Tim to be a great 20-10 big man and a consistent presence, which is still very very rare in this league.
but lately, we've won with a super dominant Tim, a PO force. and i don't see this Tim anymore.

mookie2001

05-16-2009, 07:16 AM

dam ducks dropped science on like 20 of yall

manu is finished. period
if you dont think so you must not watch many spurs games
did anyone see last years playoffs?, or this years playoffs?

its over, he had 3 good seasons, quit acting like hes fucking kobe

he'll score 20 again next season and some chodes will start i told you so threads and say hes back, nevertheless he is washed up

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 07:30 AM

mookie2001

05-16-2009, 07:37 AM

he could miss 79 games and we could be 3-0 with him and we're on a 82-0 pace, not how it works

you can be a basketball god but if your fragile x syndrom keeps you on the bench youre worthless

durability is a QUALITY for an nba player, like it or not manu is fragile

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 07:42 AM

mookie2001

05-16-2009, 07:46 AM

durability is a QUALITY for an nba player

we all knew about his fragility before his glorious end to the 08-09 season, this should have been the last straw

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 07:52 AM

we all knew about his fragility before his glorious end to the 08-09 season, this should have been the last straw

It is obvious you believe that Manu's future value as a basketball player is greatly diminished.

If true, what should the Spurs do about it?

mookie2001

05-16-2009, 07:58 AM

find another wing who can score
bench manu
dont resign manu

its going to be hard to trade because he has very little trade value

and fans need to stop saying bullshit like "manus our heart"

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 08:02 AM

find another wing who can score
bench manu
dont resign manu

its going to be hard to trade because he has very little trade value

and fans need to stop saying bullshit like "manus our heart"

So they should keep him, bench him, allow his contract to expire, and then use the cap space in 2010?

TDMVPDPOY

05-16-2009, 08:55 AM

i trade his ass to if the right pieace comes along

everyone is tradeable

no one is bigger than the club....this is san antonio spurs biatch, when you don the silver and black there is no me, myself and I bullshit

TMTTRIO

05-16-2009, 09:07 AM

I can't see Manu traded this year (especially right now since he has no trade value). I see the more likely thing is that the Spurs and Manu will part ways at the end of the season and then the Spurs can go after a big FA while Manu can choose to go anywhere else and I would not be upset with that. Knowing that this is a contract year for him I see Manu coming back and having a great year for us. Manu has said that his left ankle after having surgery on it was feeling better than ever. Unfortunately all the overcompensating on the other leg helped with the stress fracture. I see nothing really that tells me that he won't be able to come back healthy from it.

TDMVPDPOY

05-16-2009, 09:11 AM

i dont feel like ths spurs should give him a loyalty contract only to see his ankles come back again the next season....

youth movement now or noever....

NRHector

05-16-2009, 09:47 AM

there's no one out there with the same value as manu, he has heart, he is the spark of the team, he has the killing instinct and he also has good chemistry with Duncan and Parker.

TMTTRIO

05-16-2009, 09:47 AM

Well for those who want to trade him would you trade him to the Mavs for Josh Howard. You then have one guy with a bum ankle for another guy with a bum ankle.

spursbird

05-16-2009, 10:02 AM

Well for those who want to trade him would you trade him to the Mavs for Josh Howard. You then have one guy with a bum ankle for another guy with a bum ankle.
I would consider it if Brandon Bass or JJBarea was included in the trade.

ducks

05-16-2009, 10:34 AM

Sorry buddy, but all your posts have been silly and I am thankful that you have no power within the Spurs organisation. Ginobili is simply one of a kind and I would not trade him for Tayshaun, JR or even someone like Jason Richardson. You can't say we now have Tony to close games for us because they are like incomparable when discussing a true closer. Behind LeBron, Kobe and Wade I think Ginobili would be the next best closer in the league simply because he is unguardable. His awkward steps through the lane will lead to either a layup or free throws where he is 88%, and would be something like 95% in the clutch. Or, if he wants, he can use his deadly outside shot or great passing to punish you. Remember the Phoenix double overtime game 1 in last years playoffs? He fired that pass off to Time for 3 and then in double overtime drove in for that game winning layup.

If we had Chris Anderson and JR Smith we would still be playing?? Now THAT is a joke. Chris Anderson has been in foul trouble this entire playoffs because he jumps at everything, he is not a good defender, just has athletic ability and likes to swing his arms a lot. Just cause you average a lot of blocks doesn't make you a good defender. Barely was on the court this series against the Mavs... Adding him and JR Smith (who I am a HUGE fan of) would not have taken us to the Western Conference Finals, thats just a silly statement. JR, while he is pretty damn good and shoot the hell out of it, is not anywhere near enough to replace Ginobili.

I hate it when people undervalue Ginobili, never thought I would hear a Spurs fan doing it...

stats say tp is more clutch then manu

ElNono

05-16-2009, 10:43 AM

stats say tp is more clutch then manu

Is that why Pop puts the ball in Manu's hand at the end of games?

ElNono

05-16-2009, 10:46 AM

we all knew about his fragility before his glorious end to the 08-09 season, this should have been the last straw

We did? These are the very first 2 serious injuries he has had in 7 years as a pro. He played on average as much if not more than guys like SJAX, another guy people want to trade him for.

And please, mookie blaylock? jason terry? :lmao

ducks

05-16-2009, 12:23 PM

Is that why Pop puts the ball in Manu's hand at the end of games?

he takes turns now

tp created the shot for mason in az

kace

05-16-2009, 12:38 PM

Is that why Pop puts the ball in Manu's hand at the end of games?

FT shooting is (was ?) the only reason. not him being more clutch than tim or tony. all stats say the contrary.

We did? These are the very first 2 serious injuries he has had in 7 years as a pro.

so why does he average only 27 mpg during all his NBA career ? we all know that manu was almost all his NBA years one of the star of the team. as one, he should have averaged way more than that, even with a coach who like to manage his starters minutes.

Tony's average PT= 33+ Tim=37 manu= 27

it's not his level that maintain him under 28 mpg. that's his health and stamina. or maybe can you say us what was the reason ?

Manu is a great but fragile player. that's as simple as that. Everyone who says he isn't a great player is a hater, everyone who says he hasn't health/stamina issues is a blind homer.

Muser

05-16-2009, 12:42 PM

FT shooting is (was ?) the only reason. not him being more clutch than tim or tony. all stats say the contrary.

so why does he average only 27 mpg during all his NBA career ? we all know that manu was almost all his NBA years one of the star of the team. as one, he should have averaged way more than that, even with a coach who like to manage his starters minutes.

Tony's average PT= 33+ Tim=37 manu= 27

it's not his level that maintain him under 28 mpg. that's his health and stamina. or maybe can you say us what was the reason ?

Manu is a great but fragile player. that's as simple as that. Everyone who says he isn't a great player is a hater, everyone who says he hasn't health/stamina issues is a blind homer.

He was the 6th man for a while, if that counts for anything.

ducks

05-16-2009, 12:44 PM

so jason terry was the 6 man of the year this year

I would not trade manu for terry though

Phenomanul

05-16-2009, 12:45 PM

ducks
Rodney21a
and
mookie2001

Are all just dealing with the bitterness of another playoff exit the wrong way...

We all know ducks thinks LeBron is overrated, he's uttered that opinion countless of times... How's that working out for his credibility? :rolleyes

Fact is you can't trade Manu and get anything remotely close to equal value for him... any attempt to move him at this point would be worse for the Spurs than the stupid, idiotic Scola trade...

What the Spurs need to do...

Get rid of:
Vaughn
Bonner
Finley
Udoka
&
Oberto

Keep Bowen for the continued mentorship of Hill.

Then give more minutes to:
Hill
Mahinmi
Gist
M. Williams

Quit playing Mason at the point.

Bring in Rasheed on the cheap...

With longer than usual rest Duncan and Ginobili will be as fired up as ever...

ducks

05-16-2009, 12:50 PM

what is = value for a broken for man?

then you can discuss if spurs can get = value for him

ducks

05-16-2009, 12:51 PM

sheed wants 8 million
that is not cheap

Phenomanul

05-16-2009, 12:54 PM

what is = value for a broken for man?

then you can discuss if spurs can get = value for him

Maybe we can get LeBron for him...??? :hat

Phenomanul

05-16-2009, 01:01 PM

Have you even bothered to consider that Manu's injuries are the result of his all-out style of play...

When the Spurs are down in the 4th quarter... no one but Manu has the capability of getting to the stripe... that's why the ball is often placed in his hands in the clutch... not necessarily because he is perceived as a better decision-maker than TP (or that somehow you take that personal)... it is Manu's (sometimes reckless) ability to put his body on the line - something TP doesn't really excel at.

Anyways, you're just a Hater.

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 01:07 PM

In Sumation. The 1999 Atanta Hawkes Arn't the 2009 San Antonio Spurs.

Something we can agree on.

In fact, I count on the the Spurs to make much decisions than to trade Manu for a lottery pick.

Knoxxx

05-16-2009, 01:10 PM

How many guys can get their own shot off the dribble in a halfcourt set? That is his value, and it is a rare talent. When he can no longer do that, go ahead and stick the fork in him. As of now, the extent of the injury suggests he is not done. We can play him 20 mins a game and keep his numbers down and health up. Then we can renew him for $5-6 million a year for 3-4 years. I like that plan better.

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 01:15 PM

what is = value for a broken for man?

then you can discuss if spurs can get = value for him

Which is exactly why it makes little sense to trade him this now.

I have no philosophical opposition to the notion of trading Manu if it makes sense for the Spurs, but his value right now is about as low as it is going to get. If he can't overcome the injuries, his expiring contract will have the same value at the trade deadline that it has now.

If he can overcome the injuries then his value increases. Why not wait and see?

ducks

05-16-2009, 01:20 PM

I think if spurs traded manu for kobe
some would not think it would be = value

roycrikside

05-16-2009, 01:42 PM

stats say tp is more clutch then manu

which stats? You don't even know how to read stats. Every time anyone has pointed out a relevant Manu stat to you in the last five years you've ignored it.

pjjrfan

05-16-2009, 01:42 PM

A healthy Manu would make everyone around him better, Smith, Anderson and Prince don't bring that to the table. Manu has a better feel for his teammates than even Tony or Tim do, that's not something you can teach, he just has that always has, and that's why Manu was the driving force for every team he's been on and for the Spurs because as a team player he is willing to play second fiddle to all his teammates. And Manu has always been smart enough to realize Tim's and Tony's talents. I have to at least give him a year to see how far his game has fallen off if at all. Tim on the other hand has lost something, as far back as 2 years ago. For most of Tim's career I rarely if ever saw him take off-balance shots, the last two seasons he rarely takes a any shot with his feet set he seems to take more off balance shots and usually put the ball in the defenders range to get it blocked, how often did that happen in 2007? although in the early part of the season he played like the old Tim for quite a while until he came up limping in February.

roycrikside

05-16-2009, 01:44 PM

FT shooting is (was ?) the only reason. not him being more clutch than tim or tony. all stats say the contrary.

Actually, there is statistical information to back up that he was the most clutch player in the nba in '07-08.

roycrikside

05-16-2009, 01:45 PM

I think if spurs traded manu for kobe
some would not think it would be = value

Alright Ducks. Manu fans will give up Manu for Kobe when you give up Tony for CP3. :lol

SA210

05-16-2009, 02:07 PM

SA210

05-16-2009, 02:07 PM

Manu is the heart and fire of this team. He plays with more heart than ANYONE. He stays!

JustBlaze

05-16-2009, 02:21 PM

No we wouldn't be. We have no second unit. Manu is our entire bench.
JR Smith is a brainless chucker. He's a high flyer, but has ZERO basketball IQ.
Funny seeing this idiot call someone else a brainless chucker when he him self is completely brainless when it comes to JR's game. If you think that's all he does, then you seriously need to start watching some of his games right now, not the ones in the past. If you've watched him all year like I have then you'd realize that he no longer jacks up 3's all game. Much like Melo, this year, JR's improved his IQ by quite a bit. He's decision making skill is the area that has shined the most. You won't see him taking a lot of bad shots like used to or forcing up shots even when there not falling as much as well. In addition to that, he'll also assume the pg role when Chauncey's on the bench. Whenever both he and AC are out on the court, they'll take turns handling the ball, create/setting plays for others. Even with Chauncey out there, you'll see him doing it more and more too whilst under the guidance of Chauncey. So, yes, he has somewhat become our pg as well, albeit it's a work in progress.

I'll admit, if you had made that comment about him last season, there would've been a lot of truth to it. However, if you still feel this way even after this year, then you're truly blind and haven't obviously been watching the guy at all.

JustBlaze

05-16-2009, 02:31 PM

Not really. His stats have barely changed. Not to mention he was part of the Denver team that got swept by the Lakers last year.
Billups is making everyone look better in Denver right now.
LMAO, should've known you were a stat reader. Durr, JR hasn't changed at all, just look at his stats, they look the same.:lol

Also, I'll have you know that JR was by far our best player in that Laker series last year. Since you seem like a stat nut, here's his production vs LA last year in the Playoffs too.

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
07-08 DEN 4 0 27.0 0.535 0.318 0.833 0.3 1.5 1.8 1.8 1.0 0.0 1.25 3.00 18.3

sammy

05-16-2009, 03:23 PM

Solid D

05-16-2009, 03:42 PM

Using the current formula:
If Big Ticket Garnett gets injured again next season and cannot perform at his peak, or not perform at all, then

=

Injury Prone/Damaged Goods/Trade Fodder

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41mcxYoL6iL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
Baby Einstein Duck

024

05-16-2009, 03:47 PM

this is tim duncan's team. the spurs have to make every possible decision to make this team better for duncan. the team owes him everything and should not rule anything out to bring duncan his fifth championship.

ducks

05-16-2009, 04:05 PM

ducks

05-16-2009, 04:06 PM

Solid D

05-16-2009, 04:06 PM

lol solid d

:)

ducks

05-16-2009, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by ElNono View Post

No we wouldn't be. We have no second unit. Manu is our entire bench.
JR Smith is a brainless chucker. He's a high flyer, but has ZERO basketball IQ.

this jr smith dives to hoop
plays point some when chauncy is out
creates shots for others
very similar to manu
the new jr smith is much better then the old one
the old manu is way better then the new jr smith
but I am not convinced the old manu is better then the new smith

oh and playing with duncan and tp should make jr better
oh and pop>karl

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 04:13 PM

the old manu is way better then the new jr smith
but I am not convinced the old manu is better then the new smith

:wtf

duncan228

05-16-2009, 04:15 PM

:wtf

You need the ducks decoder ring. :lol

ducks

05-16-2009, 04:18 PM

:wtf

is the current manu better then jr smith?
WHO knows for sure?
who knows how worse manu will be because of his current injury

Mel_13

05-16-2009, 04:20 PM

is the current manu better then jr smith?
WHO knows for sure?
who knows how worse manu will be because of hi current injury

read what you wrote ducks

Manufan909

05-16-2009, 04:33 PM

I bet Manu plays out of his mind next season, then gets a minor injury and misses 2 games around january, and all the haters showing up from their holes to tell us how they were right.

mookie and ducks will be chomping at the bit for that game.:downspin:

ElNono

05-16-2009, 07:29 PM

Funny seeing this idiot call someone else a brainless chucker when he him self is completely brainless when it comes to JR's game. If you think that's all he does, then you seriously need to start watching some of his games right now, not the ones in the past. If you've watched him all year like I have then you'd realize that he no longer jacks up 3's all game. Much like Melo, this year, JR's improved his IQ by quite a bit. He's decision making skill is the area that has shined the most. You won't see him taking a lot of bad shots like used to or forcing up shots even when there not falling as much as well. In addition to that, he'll also assume the pg role when Chauncey's on the bench. Whenever both he and AC are out on the court, they'll take turns handling the ball, create/setting plays for others. Even with Chauncey out there, you'll see him doing it more and more too whilst under the guidance of Chauncey. So, yes, he has somewhat become our pg as well, albeit it's a work in progress.

I'll admit, if you had made that comment about him last season, there would've been a lot of truth to it. However, if you still feel this way even after this year, then you're truly blind and haven't obviously been watching the guy at all.

I've watched all the Denver games this postseason. I have no beef with Denver. I even been to the Pepsi Center.
That said, comparing Ginobili and JR Smith is comparing apples to oranges. At no point in any game JR Smith is the go to guy. He's in no way, shape or form a playmaker. He simply couldn't run our entire bench.
He has improved since Chauncey got there, because Chauncey will make everyone look better. That's what star players of Billups caliber do (just like Duncan does for us).
That said, JR certainly has a good upside years down the road if he keeps soaking basketball IQ from somebody like Billups.
But call me back when Karl puts the ball in JR hands when a playoff series is on the line.

JustBlaze

05-16-2009, 10:29 PM

I've watched all the Denver games this postseason. I have no beef with Denver. I even been to the Pepsi Center.
That said, comparing Ginobili and JR Smith is comparing apples to oranges. At no point in any game JR Smith is the go to guy. He's in no way, shape or form a playmaker. He simply couldn't run our entire bench.
He has improved since Chauncey got there, because Chauncey will make everyone look better. That's what star players of Billups caliber do (just like Duncan does for us).
That said, JR certainly has a good upside years down the road if he keeps soaking basketball IQ from somebody like Billups.
But call me back when Karl puts the ball in JR hands when a playoff series is on the line.
Fair enough. Even though my post had nothing to do w/ comparing him to Manu. But, yeah in comparison, Manu's a lot better, especially when healthy. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

mosdef17

05-17-2009, 07:13 AM

stats say tp is more clutch then manu

Stats? is this guy serious? Stats say that Chris Anderson is a better defender then Tim Duncan. Stats say that Chris Duhon is a better playmaker then Chauncey Billups. Stats also say that Shane Battier is one of the worst players in the entire NBA. Stats... I assume your joking. Who cares about stats.

You honestly can't believe that Parker is a better closer then Ginobili. Parker is my favourite player in the NBA and I can admit that I want the ball in Manu's hands down 1 with 20secs to go over Parker.

LionZion

05-17-2009, 09:34 AM

In all this why doesn't anybody say anything about the fact that, Manu has been underpaid in the league for a player of his caliber. He's been a willing sixth man or whatever else the team has needed him to be.You dun have that anywhere in the league. Dun give me Odom and Terry this season, if either of them were half the competitor Manu is, their teams would have fared better in the postseason so far.

The trade Manu thing has reached the point of boring. Manu will be Manu. If he remains injury prone, he will prob hang it up himself. So there is no extension etc to worry about. If he comes back torching everything, the FO has a real challenge trying to give him some decent compensation as well as rope in a future for the Spurs.

ducks

05-17-2009, 10:35 AM

Underpaid MY ASS
look at his minutes he plays
then compare them to players making what he makes

ducks

05-17-2009, 10:37 AM

Stats? is this guy serious? Stats say that Chris Anderson is a better defender then Tim Duncan. Stats say that Chris Duhon is a better playmaker then Chauncey Billups. Stats also say that Shane Battier is one of the worst players in the entire NBA. Stats... I assume your joking. Who cares about stats.

You honestly can't believe that Parker is a better closer then Ginobili. Parker is my favourite player in the NBA and I can admit that I want the ball in Manu's hands down 1 with 20secs to go over Parker.
yeah lets just forget what happens in the past
lets burrel our head in the sand and hope everything turns out fine and hope manu is healthy in playoffs
and the team has chemstry and that championship swagger.....
(hard to get that chemistry if manu is hurt and not playing)

mosdef17

05-17-2009, 11:01 AM

Umm righto?

superjames1992

05-17-2009, 11:18 AM

Why don't we just trade away the entire big three? I think Tony's health is going downhill following his injury last year. And he's only 27. There's no telling how fragile he may be when he's 30. Timmy's knee is worrying me, so let's ship him out of here. Manu is also too fragile, so let's ship him out.

I'd trade them all three to Denver and demand Billups, Birdman, and J.R. Smith in return. Sound good?

:lol

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 11:23 AM

Underpaid MY ASS
look at his minutes he plays
then compare them to players making what he makes

The following players make more than Manu:

Bobby Simmons
Jermaine O'Neal
Stephon Marbury
Steve Francis
Shawn Marion
Mike Bibby
Zach Randolph
Gilbert Arenas
Samuel Dalembert
Erick Dampier
Peja Stojakovic
Wally Szczerbiak

Compared to that group, Manu has clearly been underpaid.

Let's see your list of players, not on rookie contracts, who make less than Manu and are his equal or better

mookie2001

05-17-2009, 11:47 AM

yeah he makes less than big country reeves!

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 12:05 PM

I think Tony's health is going downhill following his injury last year.

Where do you base that on? That's BS. Just because he had one single injury? His primetime has just started, we are going to see alot more of TP being a superstar in the upcoming seasons.

As for Manu, Its too early to say now, but im afraid to say that i would consider trading him.

kace

05-17-2009, 12:15 PM

He was the 6th man for a while, if that counts for anything.

THAT counts for anything absolutely.

Look at the stats and you'll see that being a starter or not hasn't change too much things about manu's PT.

and terry still average 34 mpg as a 6th man.

so, once again, what was the reason for manu's PT to be limited under 28mpg if that was not in order to preserve his health/stamina ?

ElNono

05-17-2009, 12:27 PM

yeah lets just forget what happens in the past
lets burrel our head in the sand and hope everything turns out fine and hope manu is healthy in playoffs
and the team has chemstry and that championship swagger.....
(hard to get that chemistry if manu is hurt and not playing)

You mean the Spurs have no championship swagger if Manu is not there? That speaks volumes of what you think of Tony Parker as a leader.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 12:31 PM

THAT counts for anything absolutely.

Look at the stats and you'll see that being a starter or not hasn't change too much things about manu's PT.

and terry still average 34 mpg as a 6th man.

so, once again, what was the reason for manu's PT to be limited under 28mpg if that was not in order to preserve his health/stamina ?

That the coach believes playing Manu limited minutes is the best course of action doesn't mean Manu couldn't necessarily play more minutes.
I already told you he played well over 30 mpg under other coaches and has not had a problem with the extra load. You still haven't addressed that little fact.

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 12:34 PM

ElNono

05-17-2009, 12:38 PM

As for Manu, Its too early to say now, but im afraid to say that i would consider trading him.

Trading Manu makes sense next Febraury. If the Spurs are not going to extend him, either for health or monetary issues, then they should absolutely trade him before he becomes a free agent. At least they can get something out off him before he walks. Right now it makes no sense. There's a good chance he will be healthy next season. Do you really want to see him playing for LA, Denver, Dallas, Houston, Boston or the Cavs against the Spurs? Because if healthy, you just KNOW that's where he'll end up.

kace

05-17-2009, 12:43 PM

That the coach believes playing Manu limited minutes is the best course of action doesn't mean Manu couldn't necessarily play more minutes.
I already told you he played well over 30 mpg under other coaches and has not had a problem with the extra load. You still haven't addressed that little fact.

And the fact that these are his mpg in his last 4 years in the playoffs:
33.6
32.8
30.1
32.8

Pop doesn't like expending any more effort in the regular season than is absolutely necessary. It does not mean the players could not produce more.

He still averages a little PT in PO compared to others stars and PO is a shorter period than RS.

but you want to talk about PO. OK. Tim average PT in PO: 40 mpg. Tony: 37. manu: 31

i find it hilarious that people don't see or don't want to admit that manu's PT was limited all these years. that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

and there is a good reason Pop did that. i just don't see any player in the same category as manu (star if not superstar) who has played so few minutes in his NBA career. that must be a coïncidence.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 12:51 PM

and there is a good reason Pop did that. i just don't see any player in the same category as manu (star if not superstar) who has played so few minutes in his NBA career. that must be a coïncidence.

Really? I guess you didn't look hard enough. I'm willing to bet that in combined minutes throughout his entire NBA career Manu has played more minutes than 75% of the players in the entire league.
And as far as a comparable star, he has played more minutes overall than a guy like SJAX. You *STILL* avoid addressing the fact that before he was coached by Pop, and also while playing for the NT, he never had his minutes reduced.
Coincidence??????

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 12:51 PM

He still averages a little PT in PO compared to others stars and PO is a shorter period than RS.

but you want to talk about PO. OK. Tim average PT in PO: 40 mpg. Tony: 37. manu: 31

i find it hilarious that people don't see or don't want to admit that manu's PT was limited all these years. that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

and there is a good reason Pop did that. i just don't see any player in the same category as manu (star if not superstar) who has played so few minutes in his NBA career. that must be a coïncidence.

We agree that it is a fact. We agree that Pop had a good reason.

We disagree as to the reason and until some public statement is made on the issue by Pop, that's where we'll have to leave it. You believe it has to do with Manu's stamina, I think it is a calculation by Pop to maximize the chances for a championship.

:toast

superjames1992

05-17-2009, 01:31 PM

Where do you base that on? That's BS. Just because he had one single injury? His primetime has just started, we are going to see alot more of TP being a superstar in the upcoming seasons.

As for Manu, Its too early to say now, but im afraid to say that i would consider trading him.
It was sarcasm, my man. I was just using the same tired argument that you all are for saying that Manu is done. Manu didn't get his first bad injury until 2006, when he was 28 or 29. Tony already had a pretty bad injury at 26 that made him miss about a month.

We don't need to trade any of the Big Three and doing so would be an end to the Championship Run. It's quite clear how much each one of them means considering how poorly we do when any one of them are out of the lineup.

Kori Ellis

05-17-2009, 01:56 PM

That the coach believes playing Manu limited minutes is the best course of action doesn't mean Manu couldn't necessarily play more minutes.
I already told you he played well over 30 mpg under other coaches and has not had a problem with the extra load. You still haven't addressed that little fact.

I have repeatedly seen Manu himself in the last several years in the locker room after playing more minutes for a short stretch of games, talking about all his bumps, bruises and how he's just so exhausted. He himself knows that he's at his best when his minutes are limited to 25-28 a night on average. It's not a slight to Manu to admit that he can't play the minutes that other players in the league can play. It's a result of his all-out playing style. Because he can't change the way he plays, there's no way he'd survive 82 games + playoffs playing 32+ mpg. He'd be broken down and exhausted by AllStar break.

That all being said, I wouldn't want to trade Manu (or Tony) unless we are getting Kobe, LeBron, Wade, DHoward or someone of that nature. And we all know that isn't going to happen.

To me, Manu's trade value is probably at its lowest point right now because no one knows how his body has healed yet. If the Spurs were actually going to deal Manu's expiring contract (which I don't think they would), it would be closer to the trade deadline.

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 02:17 PM

Trading Manu makes sense next Febraury. If the Spurs are not going to extend him, either for health or monetary issues, then they should absolutely trade him before he becomes a free agent. At least they can get something out off him before he walks. Right now it makes no sense. There's a good chance he will be healthy next season. Do you really want to see him playing for LA, Denver, Dallas, Houston, Boston or the Cavs against the Spurs? Because if healthy, you just KNOW that's where he'll end up.

Yeah i agree, thats why i said; its too early to say now. But im afraid i would consider trading him, if things are not getting better. we'll see

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 02:19 PM

It was sarcasm, my man. I was just using the same tired argument that you all are for saying that Manu is done. Manu didn't get his first bad injury until 2006, when he was 28 or 29. Tony already had a pretty bad injury at 26 that made him miss about a month.

We don't need to trade any of the Big Three and doing so would be an end to the Championship Run. It's quite clear how much each one of them means considering how poorly we do when any one of them are out of the lineup.

Ok, i see. But there is a huge difference between manu and tony, you cant compare them. Tony is a superstar. Manu is not, yeah he was great, but i dont see him as a wonderful player. besides he is getting older too, maybe we come at some point that we should consider to focus on young talent, even if it means to lose manu. We can without him, we cant without tony. So letting manu go, is not so bad, its a shame, but it is not so bad. Tony instead is. Im saying, manu isnt all that great and with the injuries he is becoming more and more a subject of trading.

ducks

05-17-2009, 02:20 PM

The following players make more than Manu:

Bobby Simmons
Jermaine O'Neal
Stephon Marbury
Steve Francis
Shawn Marion
Mike Bibby
Zach Randolph
Gilbert Arenas
Samuel Dalembert
Erick Dampier
Peja Stojakovic
Wally Szczerbiak

Compared to that group, Manu has clearly been underpaid.

Let's see your list of players, not on rookie contracts, who make less than Manu and are his equal or better
those players are overpaid
does not mean manu is underpaid

ducks

05-17-2009, 02:22 PM

You mean the Spurs have no championship swagger if Manu is not there? That speaks volumes of what you think of Tony Parker as a leader.

the swagger is winning several games in a row and having that confidence

spurs did not get that because pop kepted reminding their players if manu was a no go they had no chance
had nothing to do with tp being a leader

ducks

05-17-2009, 02:23 PM

Trading Manu makes sense next Febraury. If the Spurs are not going to extend him, either for health or monetary issues, then they should absolutely trade him before he becomes a free agent. At least they can get something out off him before he walks. Right now it makes no sense. There's a good chance he will be healthy next season. Do you really want to see him playing for LA, Denver, Dallas, Houston, Boston or the Cavs against the Spurs? Because if healthy, you just KNOW that's where he'll end up.

good
in denver for jr smith + plus picks or fillers
and they can deal with him being paid and not playing

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 02:29 PM

those players are overpaid
does not mean manu is underpaid

Nice way to avoid the question. You could also say that every player in the NBA is overpaid, since even the lowest paid player makes more than the President.

But we are having this conversation within the wacky economics of NBA salaries. Manu has never ranked higher than 63rd on the list of highest paid NBA players. He has been, at the absolute minimum, a top 30 player since signing his current deal. By definition, among NBA players, he has been underpaid.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 04:37 PM

I have repeatedly seen Manu himself in the last several years in the locker room after playing more minutes for a short stretch of games, talking about all his bumps, bruises and how he's just so exhausted. He himself knows that he's at his best when his minutes are limited to 25-28 a night on average. It's not a slight to Manu to admit that he can't play the minutes that other players in the league can play. It's a result of his all-out playing style. Because he can't change the way he plays, there's no way he'd survive 82 games + playoffs playing 32+ mpg. He'd be broken down and exhausted by AllStar break.

I disagree in the sense that if you never play him 32+ mpg, he will never pace himself. But I actually think that's what Pop wants. I don't think he wants a passive Manu for stretches out there, he wants an all-out guy.
But that's strictly Pop's choice. I can't think a pro like Manu doesn't know how to pace himself out there if he has to.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 04:40 PM

the swagger is winning several games in a row and having that confidence

So nobody else on the team except for Manu can make the Spurs win several games in a row and have confidence... Not even Tony Parker?... I think you're onto something there...

spurs did not get that because pop kepted reminding their players if manu was a no go they had no chance
had nothing to do with tp being a leader

So it's all Pop fault. Then why do you want to trade Manu? Let's fire Pop instead.

superjames1992

05-17-2009, 04:42 PM

Ok, i see. But there is a huge difference between manu and tony, you cant compare them. Tony is a superstar. Manu is not, yeah he was great, but i dont see him as a wonderful player. besides he is getting older too, maybe we come at some point that we should consider to focus on young talent, even if it means to lose manu. We can without him, we cant without tony. So letting manu go, is not so bad, its a shame, but it is not so bad. Tony instead is. Im saying, manu isnt all that great and with the injuries he is becoming more and more a subject of trading.
How do you come up with the fact that Tony is any better than Manu? Manu had a better year last year and was injured this year, so it's hard to compare the two. Tony pretty much drives to the hoop or shoots jumpshots. Manu can shoot the three, the mid-range J, drive the the hoop, dunk the ball, make some great layups, and get to the foul line (where he gets to more and shoots a much better percentage than Tony). And Manu is who gets the ball when the game is on the line.

Timmy is the only superstar on the team. Manu and Tony are just stars.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 04:42 PM

good
in denver for jr smith + plus picks or fillers
and they can deal with him being paid and not playing

If Manu is still injured, sure. If he's not, you can get better than that for his expiring contract.

ducks

05-17-2009, 04:54 PM

If Manu is still injured, sure. If he's not, you can get better than that for his expiring contract.

maybe you do not know the level a healthy manu can play at after his latest injury

DAF86

05-17-2009, 04:58 PM

maybe you do not know the level a healthy manu can play at after his latest injury

Nobody knows that, that's why it would be pretty stupid to trade him before seeing what can he do for us next season.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 05:12 PM

maybe you do not know the level a healthy manu can play at after his latest injury

Exactly.

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 05:14 PM

How do you come up with the fact that Tony is any better than Manu? Manu had a better year last year and was injured this year, so it's hard to compare the two. Tony pretty much drives to the hoop or shoots jumpshots. Manu can shoot the three, the mid-range J, drive the the hoop, dunk the ball, make some great layups, and get to the foul line (where he gets to more and shoots a much better percentage than Tony). And Manu is who gets the ball when the game is on the line.

Timmy is the only superstar on the team. Manu and Tony are just stars.

Its funny you are doubting that tony is better than manu. Come on man, are you blind? :lol Tony is far a better player than manu, on every front. You cant even compare them. And you say tony is not a superstar? Even after this season you still say he is not a superstar? Well, i tell you, the way tony plays and carrying a team almost the whole season, that is a superstar my friend. Dont get me wrong here, i dont say manu is not a good player, cause he is. But, he cant do more than being just a 'good' player. he does not have a potential, which tony for example does have. he never had the makings of a superstar bballer, cant play whole games, he struggles with injuries alot and he is getting old.

DAF86

05-17-2009, 05:18 PM

SA210

05-17-2009, 05:19 PM

Manu is the heart and fire of this team. He plays with more heart than ANYONE. He stays!

superjames1992

05-17-2009, 05:22 PM

Its funny you are doubting that tony is better than manu. Come on man, are you blind? :lol Tony is far a better player than manu, on every front. You cant even compare them. And you say tony is not a superstar? Even after this season you still say he is not a superstar? Well, i tell you, the way tony plays and carrying a team almost the whole season, that is a superstar my friend. Dont get me wrong here, i dont say manu is not a good player, cause he is. But, he cant do more than being just a 'good' player. he does not have a potential, which tony for example does have. he never had the makings of a superstar bballer, cant play whole games, he struggles with injuries alot and he is getting old.
Yes, Tony was better than Manu this year, but Manu was better than Tony last year. It's really hard to say who's really the better player, though Tony should be better considering he's in his prime.

And, no, Tony is not a superstar. There are only a few superstars in the league (Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, Grangier, and a couple others). Perhaps you define "superstar" differently than I do. Manu and Tony are stars in my book. They're top 25 or 50 players in the league, no doubt, but I wouldn't put either of them in the top 10 where the superstars are.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 05:24 PM

Other than to rile up ducks with absurdity, I'm not going to get into the Tony vs Manu idiocy. I for one are glad they're both in our team behind TD.

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 05:31 PM

Well yeah, we all look to things in a different way, nothing wrong with that. For me TP is a superstar, who is still young, and has a whole future ahead of him. While manu for me is just a good player, whose career is going downhill, im afraid. I dont think manu ever was better in his prime than tony now. But well, that's a debate which can go on and on and on, mixed with personal opinions.

Im still glad too, like elnono said, that he is on our team, really. But I say again, its too early now, but if its going on like this, considering to trade manu is not such a bad idea i think. If its really going downhill, i think spurs can take their energy in focusing on some younger talent.

ElNono

05-17-2009, 05:51 PM

While manu for me is just a good player, whose career is going downhill, im afraid. I dont think manu ever was better in his prime than tony now. But well, that's a debate which can go on and on and on, mixed with personal opinions.

Considering Manu is a lock to the HOF, I honestly think your standards for what makes an above average player are certainly out of whack. But you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 06:13 PM

I dont quite understand what you just meant with the word lock. Are you saying that manu should be in Hall of Fame?

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 06:14 PM

I dont quite understand what you just meant with the word lock. Are you saying that manu should be in Hall of Fame?

He is a mortal lock

ElNono

05-17-2009, 06:16 PM

I dont quite understand what you just meant with the word lock. Are you saying that manu should be in Hall of Fame?

No, I mean it's indisputable he most likely will be.

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 06:17 PM

I see you think very highly of him. But Manu in Hall of Fame?!?!?! :lol

mookie2001

05-17-2009, 06:20 PM

Manu is a lock to the HOF
good lord

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 06:22 PM

I see you think very highly of him. But Manu in Hall of Fame?!?!?! :lol

Absolute lock. The Basketball Hall of Fame is not an NBA Hall of Fame. Amateurs, professionals, women and international players are all eligible. Manu's body of work in the NBA, Europe, and with his National Team make him a lock.

Awards

* Italian League All-Star: 1999, 2000, 2001
* Italian League Most Improved Player: 2000, 2001, 2002
* Euroleague Finals Most Valuable Player: 2001
* FIBA Americas Championship Most Valuable Player: 2001
* Italian Cup Most Valuable Player: 2002
* NBA All-Star: 2005
* All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Championship: 2002, 2006
* Ideal Olympics Team: 2004
* Summer Olympic Games Most Valuable Player: 2004
* Olimpia de Oro: 2003, 2004 (shared with Carlos Tévez)
* 50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors: 2008
* NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award: 2008
* All-NBA Third Team: 2008

Titles

* Italian League Championship: 2001
* Italian Cup: 2001, 2002
* Euroleague: 2001
* Americas Championship: 2001
* NBA Championship: 2003, 2005, 2007
* Summer Olympic Games gold medal: 2004
* Summer Olympic Games bronze medal: 2008

DAF86

05-17-2009, 06:24 PM

I see you think very highly of him. But Manu in Hall of Fame?!?!?! :lol

good lord

People that don't know shit about the Basketball Hall of Fame and laugh when somebody says that Manu is a future Hall of Famer are the ones that rile me up the most.

mookie2001

05-17-2009, 06:27 PM

Liga Esmegma 1998 All Mecos Team

mookie2001

05-17-2009, 06:28 PM

hey thanks for those facts i had no idea women and international players were eligible too

what about college coaches and aba players?

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 06:34 PM

People that don't know shit about the Basketball Hall of Fame and laugh when somebody says that Manu is a future Hall of Famer are the ones that rile me up the most.

Really? doesnt it have to do that you are argentine just like manu? Well, i dont want to destroy your dreams and all that. But still manu in the hall of fame?? :lol

DAF86

05-17-2009, 06:38 PM

Really? doesnt it have to do that you are argentine just like manu? Well, i dont want to destroy your dreams and all that. But still manu in the hall of fame?? :lol

No, it has to do with the fact that he is my favorite player. And laugh all you want, that won't change the fact that when he's done he will get there.

Bukefal

05-17-2009, 06:39 PM

well, the only thing we can do is just sit back and wait. we'll see then. :toast

superjames1992

05-17-2009, 06:41 PM

Manu is pretty much a lock for the HOF. If it were the NBA Hall of Fame, then there's no way he gets in. But it's the Basketball Hall of Fame, so with the body of work that he has, there's no way he does not get in.

Manu is more likely a HOFer than Tony. Tony needs to continue to score over 20 points per game and play well if he hopes to be a HOFer because he does not have many international accolades. I think Tony will end up in the Hall of Fame if he continues to play like he has been for another five years or so, but he still has plenty of work to do. Manu could retire tomorrow and be a virtual lock.

ducks

05-17-2009, 06:43 PM

manu is a lock because of what he did outside the nba
the titles with the spurs help but without them he would still get in

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 06:46 PM

well, the only thing we can do is just sit back and wait. we'll see then. :toast

You identify yourself as European, so I would assume you have knowledge of the great European players of recent history.

These are the three male international players inducted this decade:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Dalipagi%C4%87

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_Meneghin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Petrovi%C4%87

Are you saying that Manu's accomplishments are not comparable to these recent inductees?

Mel_13

05-17-2009, 06:47 PM

manu is a lock because of what he did outside the nba
the titles with the spurs help but without them he would still get in

finally something we absolutely agree on

ElNono

05-17-2009, 07:59 PM

I see you think very highly of him. But Manu in Hall of Fame?!?!?! :lol

LOL, you suck at this basketball thing.

Kill_Bill_Pana

05-17-2009, 08:11 PM

FIBA Hall of Fame

Sergei Belov
Alexander Belov
Emiliano Rodriguez
Fernando Martín
Radivoj Korać
Dražen Dalipagić
Krešimir Ćosić
Dražen Petrović
Mirza Delibašić
Ivo Daneu
Pierluigi Marzorati
Nikos Galis
Amaury Pasos
Oscar Furlong
Teófilo Cruz
Bill Russell

Candidates

Oscar Schmidt
Ubiratan Pereira Maciel
Wlamir Marques
Waldemar Blatskauskas
Ruy de Freitas
Marcel de Souza
Edson Bispo dos Santos
Antonio Salvador Sucar
Affonso Évora
Alfredo da Motta
Jatyr Eduardo Schall
Carmo de Souza "Rosa Branca"
Carlos Domingos Massoni "Mosquito"
Zenny de Azevedo "Algodão"
Dragan Kićanović
Zoran "Moka" Slavnić
Vlade Divac
Predrag Danilović
Dejan Bodiroga
Aleksandar Đorđević
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Bob Kurland
Rūdolfs Jurciņš
Jānis Krūmiņš
Valdis Muižnieks
Maigonis Valdmanis
Valdis Valters
Georgios Kolokithas
Panagiotis Giannakis
Fanis Christodoulou
Panagiotis Fasoulas
Modestas Paulauskas
Šarūnas Marčiulionis
Arvydas Sabonis
Juan Antonio San Epifanio
Francesc "Nino" Buscató
Ivan Mrázek
Jiří Zídek Sr.
Raymond Dalmau
Juan "Pachin" Vicens
Eddie Palubinskas
Andrew Gaze
Ruperto Herrera
Pedro Chappe
Jacques Bachayani
Koutrach Tarif
Dino Meneghin
Žarko Paspalj
Gennadi Volnov
Vladimir Tkachenko
Detlef Schrempf
Rik Smits
Miki Berkovich
Mieczysław Łopatka
János Greminger
Leo Rautins
Manuel Raga
Oscar Moglia
Nicolás Lapentti
Awwad Mfadi Haddad

Manu is fitting to first list here and not second one.

pjjrfan

05-17-2009, 08:34 PM

I see you think very highly of him. But Manu in Hall of Fame?!?!?! :lolHe'll make it. Manu qualifies on what he has done for Argentina and in for his European play and his play in the NBA won't hurt him at all. Rick Barry was on the ticket a long time ago and he spoke about the HOF that they should have one for the NBA only becasue the current Hall is for pro, college, and foreign players.

Kill_Bill_Pana

05-17-2009, 08:51 PM

He'll make it. Manu qualifies on what he has done for Argentina and in for his European play and his play in the NBA won't hurt him at all. Rick Barry was on the ticket a long time ago and he spoke about the HOF that they should have one for the NBA only becasue the current Hall is for pro, college, and foreign players.

He does not qualify base on his European play no. National team yes. European play? I think not even close. He will make it but not for his European play that is for sure.

DAF86

05-17-2009, 09:02 PM

He does not qualify base on his European play no. National team yes. European play? I think not even close. He will make it but not for his European play that is for sure.

Euroleague championship, Euroleague MVP, Italian championship and Italian league MVP plus he was selected as one of the 50 most important contributors to the Euroleague (or something like that) I think he would make it with only his Europe resume.

Solid D

05-17-2009, 10:37 PM

He does not qualify base on his European play no. National team yes. European play? I think not even close. He will make it but not for his European play that is for sure.

If you look at Euroleague play, Manu is already high on the list (top 35 with no individual ranking given to players).

Manu is a joy to watch and one gets the impression he could play blindfolded and get by for a while just on instincts and his 6th sense on the court. Praising Manu does not take away from other players like Duncan, Parker, or his opponents. Coming from an old-time NBA connoisseur, Manu's flair is unique and his creativity in passing the basketball is in the Bird, Maravich, Magic, and Cousy class.

Put away the hate and enjoy Manu for what he is...and for as long as you can. You are blessed to be able to watch an artisan at work. He's a gift to basketball.

Sean Cagney

05-17-2009, 10:51 PM

Damn I miss Spurs bball and Manu already, him not being there just ate me up inside and I was not nearly as excited for these playoffs as I have been in past years off the strength of Manu being out :( Get well man.

urunobili

05-18-2009, 07:49 AM

If you look at Euroleague play, Manu is already high on the list (top 35 with no individual ranking given to players).

Manu is a joy to watch and one gets the impression he could play blindfolded and get by for a while just on instincts and his 6th sense on the court. Praising Manu does not take away from other players like Duncan, Parker, or his opponents. Coming from an old-time NBA connoisseur, Manu's flair is unique and his creativity in passing the basketball is in the Bird, Maravich, Magic, and Cousy class.

Put away the hate and enjoy Manu for what he is...and for as long as you can. You are blessed to be able to watch an artisan at work. He's a gift to basketball.

Solid D :worthy:

bigfan

05-18-2009, 07:52 AM

As I read someplace, its the Basketball HoF, not the NBA HoF. Manu is a lock. Re: his status on the Spurs, Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce have done enough to remain on the Spurs for their careers if they so chose (and the money isnt stupid).

rascal

05-18-2009, 08:49 AM

Other than to rile up ducks with absurdity, I'm not going to get into the Tony vs Manu idiocy. I for one are glad they're both in our team behind TD.

Isn't it "on" our team not "in" our team.

ElNono

05-18-2009, 08:49 AM

Isn't it "on" our team not "in" our team.

Thank you :toast

kace

05-18-2009, 09:16 AM

well, manu should be there in the Hall of fame.

he was not only in teams who won euroleague, italian cups and championship, NBA titles and olympic titles, he was one of the major if not THE major player of these teams. with multiple MVP awards in europe and international competitions.

there's no doubt about it.

but what is a little bit annoying is that it seems that in this thread, either you're a groupie and manu can't do bad, or you're a hater and he's bs.

he's a great great player. but still, he has stamina issues, more than ANY other star of his level in this league. if you think Pop limit him more than tony or tim for pleasure, you're blind. he does that because he thinks manu can't provide 35 mpg of his best bball in a 82 games + PO season. nobody's perfect.

Mel_13

05-18-2009, 09:45 AM

manufan10

05-18-2009, 10:52 AM

kace

05-18-2009, 10:57 AM

Why Pop does things is known only to him and you should give up on the assertions that you know his thoughts. He uses all his players in the way he thinks best to produce wins. Comparing his minutes to Duncan is ridiculous. Manu's game does not lend itself to resting while on the court, Tim's does.

OK. Find me another NBA player of the same level than manu (we're talking about stars/ borderline superstars) who has average in his career as few minutes as manu.

and also, i would really like to know what is this mysterious strategy that use Pop in limiting manu's PT but which is not because he thinks manu can't play at the same intensity 35 mpg. i'm very curious to hear you on that one.

TMTTRIO

05-18-2009, 11:12 AM

Well yeah maybe Manu can't handle a lot of minutes like the other stars but at the same time you have to stop and think how much non stop basketball has Manu played all of these years with all of his teams and not had a break to relax unlike a lot of the other players. I think that's part of a reason also that Pop watches Manu's minutes otherwise he probably would've broken down sooner. I'm surprised he's lasted this long without getting any serious injuries with all the playing that he does since everyone seems to think he's so fragile. Not saying it's good but something to also keep in mind.

manufan10

05-18-2009, 11:18 AM

manufan10

05-18-2009, 11:19 AM

Kepted? Hmmm...

:lmao

Ed Helicopter Jones

05-18-2009, 11:21 AM

I'd call all of you retarded who are suggesting that we trade Manu (Ducks would be first in line). However, that would be an insult to retarded people.

We'd never get equal value for Manu right now. Trading Manu would be trading away any chance of a 5th title.

Mel_13

05-18-2009, 12:10 PM

OK. Find me another NBA player of the same level than manu (we're talking about stars/ borderline superstars) who has average in his career as few minutes as manu.

and also, i would really like to know what is this mysterious strategy that use Pop in limiting manu's PT but which is not because he thinks manu can't play at the same intensity 35 mpg. i'm very curious to hear you on that one.

First off, I don't pretend to know why Pop does what he does. You have come to a conclusion that is consistent with the facts. That does not make it correct. Your conclusion represents your opinion, nothing more. I have no problem with your opinion. You may well be correct. I have a problem when you say any other conclusion means the other person is blind.

Let me give an example:

Fact 1: Tony Parker gets fewer assists than other elite point guards

Fact 2: Pop runs an offense that does make his PG into a pass-first PG

Conclusion consistent with the above facts: Pop uses Tony is this way because he knows he does not have the ability to be pass-first PG.

That conclusion fits the facts. I would argue that it is also wrong. My conclusion is that Tony runs the offense exactly the way Pop wants him to. And I further conclude that Pop utilizes Tony in this way because he believes it gives the Spurs the best chance to win.

I believe the same applies to Manu. Pop utilizes him in a way consistent with what he believes maximizes the Spurs chances of winning. As you stated, Manu cannot play at maximum intensity for 35mpg. That does not mean he could not play 35mpg. My conclusion, also an opinion consistent with facts like yours, is that Pop uses Manu on the 2nd unit and limits his minutes because he wants maximum intensity for every minute he plays. As I noted above, Tim does not play at maximum intensity for every minute he plays. He paces himself throughout the game and plays more minutes. There is no reason to believe that Manu could not do the same.

Just as Tony averages fewer APG than other elite PGs, Manu averages fewer MPG than other elite players in the NBA. It could be because of some limitation in their games or physiques or it could be by design to create the best possible team. With respect to Manu, you apparently believe the first, I believe the second. I have not called you blind or labeled you a hater for your opinion. The same tone on your part would be appreciated.

Bukefal

05-18-2009, 12:39 PM

but what is a little bit annoying is that it seems that in this thread, either you're a groupie and manu can't do bad, or you're a hater and he's bs..

Im dealing with the Church of Manu in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I dont hate him, I dont hate him at all, I think he is a great player, I dont think he is BS. Of course he is good. I just dont think he deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame and I dont think he is a superstar. I think he is a bit overrated, since he isnt really that wonderful to begin with and has never been + he cant make minutes + he simply does not have superstar potential + he has injuries alot, alot and again; alot. and he is getting old.

Maybe only in the Argentine or European hall of fames..