Harvey: Turkoglu Just Five Years Late For Spurs

[duncan228]

Turkoglu just five years late for Spurs (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Turkoglu_just_five_years_late_for_Spurs.html)
Buck Harvey

The Spurs weren't wrong. If anything, they gambled well. They gave up nothing to get Hedo Turkoglu, then they gave him a season to show them something.

That's why Sunday wasn't about the Spurs and their decision five years ago.

It was about the gradual evolution of Turkoglu.

R.C. Buford had followed Turkoglu since he turned pro at 17 in Turkey, but most scouts saw the gifts. Turkoglu had a smooth jumper, and he could dribble and pass for his size.

Better yet, his size kept changing. Look at him now; he's about the same height as Dwight Howard.

After Sacramento drafted Turkoglu, Buford would occasionally call the Kings to see if anything was possible. The Kings would say Turkoglu was untouchable.

Then Turkoglu put on some weight and lost some confidence. His scoring average fell below seven points by 2003, and the Kings wanted to pull off a trade with Indiana to get Brad Miller.

Buford always gave Sam Presti credit for what followed. The Spurs elbowed their way into a three-team trade, with Danny Ferry's contract their only asset.

It was a godsend. The Spurs had been hesitant to invest in Stephen Jackson, though he had helped win a title with clutch shooting. They weren't sure of his worth, given his volatility, and to get Turkoglu they only had to send off some paperwork on Ferry. Shortly after, Ferry retired and returned to work for the Spurs.

Turkoglu was likeable, with a good sense of humor, and he came with a noticeable skill. He could speak Serbian with Gregg Popovich.

But he was also a reclamation project. He was fragile, without competitive instincts, and Popovich reacted to that. He didn't bark at him — in any language — because he didn't think Turkoglu needed the stress.

Still, when Turkoglu started off in a slump, Popovich didn't pull back. “He is the key,” Popovich said in November of 2003. “He's a necessity. We're not going to get it done without him.”

Popovich tried to jump-start Turkoglu, starting him ahead of Manu Ginobili, and for a time the spark caught. Turkoglu went on a shooting streak in the middle of the season.

He relapsed in the playoffs. Turkoglu went cold in the Derek Fisher 0.4 loss, and his final game as a Spur left a lasting image. Starting against the Lakers as the so-called shooting guard, Turkoglu didn't score a point.

When the Magic offered Turkoglu a six-year, $37 million contract, the Spurs never considered matching. They had to pay Ginobili and Bruce Bowen that summer, and they wondered if Turkoglu would ever have fourth-quarter toughness. To them, it made better sense to invest in a less-expensive but proven shooter, Brent Barry.

The Spurs would win the next championship, and then another in 2007. With Ginobili becoming more assertive, Turkoglu might have remained passive had he stayed.

He instead found responsibility with an Orlando franchise that had won just 21 games the year before. He got better every season until he averaged almost 20 points last year, when he was named the league's most improved player.

Then came Sunday. On the road, in a Game 7, Turkoglu put together 25 points and 12 assists to eliminate the defending champs.

“If he had a notion to call himself the Turkish Larry Bird,” a Boston Globe columnist wrote, “no one could raise a serious objection.”

He'd arrived at age 30, and now he heads to Cleveland to play, coincidentally, Ferry's Cavaliers. But everything could have been different, including the 2004 postseason.

If Turkoglu had shown even a hint of what was to come.

[spursfaninla]

The spurs could not pay for a regular season phenom who would one day, too late, turn into a playoff baller.

Plus, Hedo has not played well in most of the games against the Celtics: he picked the last, important game to have a good game. It helps that he is really the 2nd option on the team.

[timvp]

Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.

Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004 :depressed

[JustinJDW]

I am not upset one bit that we did not keep Hedo. Fuck Hedo. We won two more rings without him. Think about it. Does anyone really think we would have won the 2005 and 2007 Championships if we kept an underdeveloped Hedo and dropped a prime Ginobili and Bowen? Of course not. Get real.

It's called sacrificing people. If we kept Hedo over Ginobili, we never would have won those Championships. The Front Office was smart on this one.

[Russ]

I don't think Hedo is done doing what he does best. (He's just created a bigger stage.)

[Blackjack]

Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.

Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004 :depressed

It really makes you wonder how fortunes would have changed had the Spurs just decided to give the '03 a chance to defend it's title like the way they let the '07 have an opportunity. Granted, Dave, Kerr, and a couple of vets at the end of the bench would have had to been replaced, but it still makes you wonder.

The "Accidental Championship" year, which was in referrence to the Spurs supposedly being in a transition year-not a slight, has turned out to be the year of "Unintended Consequence."

Because the franchise had eyes on '04 being "their year", they didn't pick up Speedy's option-in part due to wanting to keep financial flexibility-, they passed on Howard- which had everything to do with financial flexibility, and they struck-out on Kidd- the reason they needed the financial flexibility.

Kidd not coming turned out to be a blessing in disguise, but given hindsight?

Had they been able to give that team a chance to repeat?

They come back the next year with the Big 3, Jack, Bowen, Speedy, and a rookie named Howard.:depressed

[BobEX]

Hedo needed room to grow. The Magic were not contenders when he signed, so he got to grow with the team. The Spurs needed to win right away so they could not offer the same opportunities for him, both financially and in terms of his development as a player.

[MaNu4Tres]

I am not upset one bit that we did not keep Hedo. Fuck Hedo. We won two more rings without him. Think about it. Does anyone really think we would have won the 2005 and 2007 Championships if we kept an underdeveloped Hedo and dropped a prime Ginobili and Bowen? Of course not. Get real.

It's called sacrificing people. If we kept Hedo over Ginobili, we never would have won those Championships. The Front Office was smart on this one.

Underdevolped Hedo? Hedo would have done a lot more than Brent Barry giving the opportunity. Brent Barry had so much opportunity and barely did anything except for bringing the ball up the court 8 minutes a game in the 2005 NBA Finals.

[MaNu4Tres]

Hedo needed room to grow. The Magic were not contenders when he signed, so he got to grow with the team. The Spurs needed to win right away so they could not offer the same opportunities for him, both financially and in terms of his development as a player.

Hedo just needed an opportunity. Success comes with that. He had the skill set and wasn't one dimensional like the other role players we've had outside the big 3 ( Barry, Mason, Finley, Steve Smith, Ime Udoka, ect). His shot was just off in a critical time and that happens to the best of them. I don't care what kind of player you are superstar or role player IT HAPPENS.

[objective]

Underdevolped Hedo? Hedo would have done a lot more than Brent Barry giving the opportunity. Brent Barry had so much opportunity and barely did anything except for bringing the ball up the court 8 minutes a game in the 2005 NBA Finals.

True, Barry never delivered what people thought the Spurs were getting when he signed. People now always forget that he lost his 6th-man spot to Devin Brown and only a back injury got Barry back in the game.

[DAF86]

Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.

Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004 :depressed

I'm pretty sure that if Jackson would have stayed Manu wouldn't have developed in the way he did on the NBA. And you don't know if we would have won in '05 without Manu's '05 version.

[ploto]

Keeping Hedo would not have meant that Manu or Bruce would have been gone. That is a stupid claim. The Spurs could have had Hedo or Jax or Brent- and they chose Brent who agreed to a shorter deal.

The real problem for Hedo was that he is more of an all-around player when the Spurs prefer one-trick ponies who fit a certain role- players who do one thing really well rather than a lot of things fairly well.

I also think that Hedo became the scapegoat for the Spurs loss to LA in 2004 when a lot of players shot horribly that series. The game 6 he mentions in LA: somehow he forgot to include that Bowen was 0-5 (same as Hedo) and Tony was 4-18. The 0.4 game in SA, Tony shot 7-23 and Horry was 0-4. Actually, Rob had 5 points TOTAL in games 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 combined. So, it was not just about Hedo not scoring that series.

I also knew with the attention being paid to Hedo that the article would soon appear justifying the Spurs getting rid of him. It is so predictable.

[mountainballer]

Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004 :depressed

signing Barry made a lot of sense back then. but compared to what the Spurs payed him, his impact wasn't that impressive. (always assuming that instead of Barry this money could have been invested in another player. someone like Salmons for example).

[urunobili]

I'm pretty sure that if Jackson would have stayed Manu wouldn't have developed in the way he did on the NBA. And you don't know if we would have won in '05 without Manu's '05 version.

I disagree with this. Both Manu and Jax have declared several times that despite the fact they didn't have much in common outside basketball on the court the chemistry was off the charts...

I think Manu would have done what Manu does Manu's way and JAX could have been our killer that may have put us over the Flakers in 04 and the Mavs in 06 no doubts

[DAF86]

I disagree with this. Both Manu and Jax have declared several times that despite the fact they didn't have much in common outside basketball on the court the chemistry was off the charts...

I think Manu would have done what Manu does Manu's way and JAX could have been our killer that may have put us over the Flakers in 04 and the Mavs in 06 no doubts

With S-jax on the team Manu wouldn't have been a starter in '05 and without starter minutes I don't think Manu would have played like he did that year.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.

Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004 :depressed

The Spurs needed Jack and Jack needed the Spurs.

[NFGIII]

Hedo needed to go in order to develop. I agree that he wouldn't have gotten the touches on the Spurs due to the Big 3 neccessary for Hedo to become the player he has in Orlando. I'm glad to see him reaching his potential. I always liked him when he played for the Kings. Hedo just wasn't ready for the role that the Spurs wanted him to play.

Hedo leaving after the '04 season really was a no-brainer for the Spurs. I can't see the Spurs matching Orlando's offer for him. And in hindsight that offer until last season was way too much for what he produced.

My problem was the Spurs fascination with Kidd, SJAX leaving and passing on Howard. As several have already mentioned if we draft Howard and resign SJAX then we probably have a 3peat if not more. Now that possible scenario really hurts as a Spurs fan.:depressed

[4down]

With S-jax on the team Manu wouldn't have been a starter in '05 and without starter minutes I don't think Manu would have played like he did that year.

Manu gets starter minutes - at the end of games. Fin would have been the odd man out in this scenario.


Hedo needed to go in order to develop. I agree that he wouldn't have gotten the touches on the Spurs due to the Big 3 neccessary for Hedo to become the player he has in Orlando. I'm glad to see him reaching his potential. I always liked him when he played for the Kings. Hedo just wasn't ready for the role that the Spurs wanted him to play.

Hedo leaving after the '04 season really was a no-brainer for the Spurs. I can't see the Spurs matching Orlando's offer for him. And in hindsight that offer until last season was way too much for what he produced.

My problem was the Spurs fascination with Kidd, SJAX leaving and passing on Howard. As several have already mentioned if we draft Howard and resign SJAX then we probably have a 3peat if not more. Now that possible scenario really hurts as a Spurs fan.:depressed

yeah, at that time I think everyone agreed - even the few pro- Hedo folks out there, that Orlando was overpaying at that time. I liked Hedo, but couldn't justify it then. Considering the amount of time it took for the investment in hedo to pay dividends, I agree that the Spurs were right to let him go . Jack, though... it was tougher seeing him go though.

[DAF86]

Manu gets starter minutes - at the end of games. Fin would have been the odd man out in this scenario.

Finley wasn't in SA in 2005 you'd have to choose between Manu, Jackson and Bowen.

[lefty]

Hedo has always been a talented, versatile big SF

But this season, he has reached another level; he has more responsibilities, and is the Magic go-to-guy

[angel_luv]

Hedo is where he is supposed to be. It worked out for the best for everybody.

[SenorSpur]

I totally agree. The loss of Jax, his killer instincts, his length, and his offensive and defensive skills, really hurt the Spurs in both '04 & '06. Hedo, Finley and a host of other possible replacements simply have not been able to adequately replace what Jack gave the Spurs.

[4down]

Finley wasn't in SA in 2005 you'd have to choose between Manu, Jackson and Bowen.

Good point. - Did they really have to choose between those three or was it Barry as well that threw the monkey wrench in the whole thing? I know part of it had to do with jack just wanting more than the Spurs were willing to give, but was it not feasible, or did it just not work out with the Spurs? It seems they could have reached an accord.

[tmtcsc]

Now, maybe more than ever, people can really appreciate what it takes to win it all. We have 4 Championships and its never easy. I'm so damn spoiled that I think the year we swept Cleveland was sub-par. Isn't that sick ? We can actually debate which Championship is our favorite. LA and Cleveland had great years as did the Nuggets and Magic but when its all over, only one team will be able to say they were number 1. All 3 teams that lose from here on out will be fishing just like us.

[tmtcsc]

I disagree with this. Both Manu and Jax have declared several times that despite the fact they didn't have much in common outside basketball on the court the chemistry was off the charts...

I think Manu would have done what Manu does Manu's way and JAX could have been our killer that may have put us over the Flakers in 04 and the Mavs in 06 no doubts

People seem to remember Kerr's heroics against Dallas in the '03 WCF's but it was Jax that really started it off. He also went off in Game 6 against the Nets draining 3 after 3. You just can't teach that.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I knew as time went by, everyone would grow more and more disgusted with the spurs letting Jackson go. It made no fucking sense. And regardless of his agent's tactics and money thirstiness, the contract he was offered was jack ass anyways. We should have paid the man. He was the clutchest bomber of the post season for us and we just let him walk.

stupid.

Hedo I actually wanted gone. His value got overinflated with his year here.

What's that about Hedo being Dwight's height now? I remember he started out as 6'8", then mysteriously grew to 6'10" right before joining the spurs....so he's 7'0" now?

Also, can you imagine Pop letting Hedo run the point like he does the Magic?

[Spurs1234]

totally agree with everyone pissed they let jackson go...if anything, it was like the celtics letting posey go this offseason, it was a huge hit...then factor in, jackson could have been signed for a 3 year 18 million dollar deal, posey got the mid level, posey is over 30, jax was starting his prime, and jax was a more well rounded player...why they didnt want to sign him is beyond belief...i think up to 2002, the spurs made the best FO moves ever for a team, getting a little luck with TD and drafting overseas, something no one did...but after 2002-2003, they made a bunch of bad decisions....granted by 2002, we had the pieces to win 3 more championships, so its not spilled milk, i am grateful they won what they did, but still, the FO if they could do it over again, would have signed JAX in a heartbeat. while i agree they should have drafted howard, hindsight in drafts is 20/20, so i cant hate on that move, but to not sign your best clutch player, who is athletic, can play multiple positions, proved he could start on your championship roster, and is young enough, that he wont cost you max dollars, is just a bad move. With jax, they probably win vs. the lakers in 2004...and def. in 2006 vs. the mavs. I agree, in 2005, the spurs woundnt have won without manu's heroics, but who is to say he wouldnt develop even with jax there...plus with jax there, maybe manu doesnt have to score 25 a night like he did in the playoffs...the only thing that upsets me the FO did, the draft picks of howard and salmons, ect i can live with...but to not give a contributor to a ring a new contract, is just a bad move.

[urunobili]

I felt the same way when they didn't re-sign him, but hey they still got 2 more rings after that. Yeah it could have been more, but you never know. It's all in the past and there is nothing you can do about it unless Marty and Doc are walking through the door. Remember Jax was the one in the stands w/ Artest. Jax was the one shooting his gun in the air at an Indiana night club at 4 am. He is very immature and the Spurs gave him one chance and when he hesitated, they moved on without him.

Jax probably wouldn't have done any of that if staying safe in San Antonio...

[poop]

ive never seen a player like Hedo where they start off good, then suck for 5 years, then suddenly get good again. its wierd

[TDMVPDPOY]

had we signed JAX, then rasho wouldnt be here right?

[Mel_13]

So Indiana is full of thugs and bad things? It's no different here than in Indiana..probably worse here.

Don't you know that when you rewrite history in one of these 'what if' scenarios only the good things happen while the bad things don't. If Jax stayed he San Antonio he would have spent all his free time playing video games at Tim's house until he settled down with the second grade teacher he met while doing community outreach.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs refused to give Jackson around 5 million per year for 3 + years after 2003. That's all Jackson was asking for, but Spurs offered him 9 mil over 3 years so Jackson passed. What I don't understand is they gave Barry 5.5 Million for 4 years two years later after 03. Spurs even had the chance to bring Jackson back in 2004 and elected to go the Barry route instead. Horrible job and decision from the front office.

[Extra Stout]

It's nice for Hedo that he finally blossomed.

Brent Barry wasn't too shabby as a Spur.

Jax might have helped with the '04 run since he was clutch when other Spurs weren't.

Obviously if Josh Howard had been on the Spurs, the Mavericks would never have become the team they were from 2004-07, the matchup problems they caused for the Spurs would never have existed, other teams would be having to figure out how to guard "the long 3" rather than the other way around, there never would have been such a thing as "small ball" in Pop's schemes, and a threepeat from 2005-07 would have been quite likely, unless the Spurs ended up dumping somebody to lower payroll.

That was yet another R.C. Buford special. :tu

[Mel_13]

:lolHAHA...I detect some sarcasm in your typing. That's what I am trying to say. This dude has had character issues since he's been in the NBA, so saying he'd stay out of trouble down here is crazy. I mean if you can't be good in SHITiana, than how can you handle a crazy night on 6th St in Austin or the Riverwalk?


Not just that. It's the whole 'the Spurs would have won 4 straight if it wasn't for 0.4 and the Manu foul'. As if the other titles were somehow preordained and did not have tipping points that could have just as easily resulted in no titles.

Consider two shots by Robert Horry from almost exactly the same spot:

2:15 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8p9RtiDVRM

3:12 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNTE_1rXvy0

If the first goes in and the second misses, instead of the other way around, do the Spurs win in 2003 and 2005?

[Mel_13]

Spurs refused to give Jackson around 5 million per year for 3 + years after 2003. That's all Jackson was asking for, but Spurs offered him 9 mil over 3 years so Jackson passed. What I don't understand is they gave Barry 5.5 Million for 4 years two years later after 03. Spurs even had the chance to bring Jackson back in 2004 and elected to go the Barry route instead. Horrible job and decision from the front office.

This article written in 2003 paints a different picture. The Spurs made an initial offer and Jackson's agent did not make a counteroffer or return calls or e-mails from Pop and R.C. The Spurs made the Hedo deal and Jackson settled for a one year deal after failing to get what he wanted from any team in the NBA.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1030223/index.htm

[ploto]

Also, can you imagine Pop letting Hedo run the point like he does the Magic?

better than Mason-- actually Pop always believed that Hedo coud play positions 1 through 4.

[pad300]

You know, there's been a fair amount of Barry hate in this thread. While I can understand wanting to have kept Capt Jack (although not Turkeyglue, not after that performance against the lakers). It wasn't Barry's fault that Jack left. Despite all the haters, Barry was pretty damned useful for us while he was here.

In 04/05, he tied for 4/5th place in WS (wins score) on the team in the regular season, and was 5th in WS during the playoffs...He was the best offensive player on the team according to Pts/100 possesssion in the regular season, and 4th in the playoffs..

In 05/06 he was 7th in WS and 2nd in Pts/100 possession in the regular season. He only played 1258 RS minutes, which held down his WS. In the Playoffs he was 3ed in WS, and 1st overall in pts/100 possessions

in 06/07 he was 4th in WS and 1st pts/possesion in the RS. In the playoffs he was bad, being 9th in WS and pts/possession

in 07/08 he had again the best pts/possession on the squad (not counting Jeremy Richardson's 29 minutes of garbage time), but only contributed 2.2 WS (8th on the squad), primarily because he only played 554 RS minutes. In the playoffs, he was best pts/poss on the squad (not counting Bonner's 9 MP), and had the 4th best WS (at 0.8) on the squad.

With the exception of the 06/07 playoffs, he was really quite good for us. Especially if you adjust for minutes played, given he got jerked around by Pop (minutes wise) quite a lot; he was the primary guy suffering for Finley's need to start...He was at the very least fair value for the money, and sometimes quite a bit more... He really should have gotten more PT while he was here.

[afireinside20]

If Jackson would have stayed, I feel we would have one in 04 and 06. He was so great for us in our 03 run, him and Manu really added depth for the Spurs at the SG position. I'm sure with Jackson on board as well, we would have had an even more efficient and dynamic offense. Instead of The Big Three, it would have been the The Big Four. Thank the FO for fucking it up yet again.

[DAF86]

If Jackson would have stayed, I feel we would have one in 04 and 06. He was so great for us in our 03 run, him and Manu really added depth for the Spurs at the SG position. I'm sure with Jackson on board as well, we would have had an even more efficient and dynamic offense. Instead of The Big Three, it would have been the The Big Four. Thank the FO for fucking it up yet again.

I think it would have been the big two (Tim and Tony) with Manu and Jacskon preventing each other from maximazing their potentials.

[bdictjames]

Without Brent Barry, we wouldn't have 2 rings. He was a class act and a veteran who knew the system and knew how to execute. Made a ton of clutch shots in the playoffs.

[Leftyventricle]

i always thought he looked like a melted ginobili. or that he sniffed too much turkey glue.

he's doing great and i wish him the best of luck!

[Ice009]

Yeah, there's not much the Spurs could have done. Turkoglu was a one-year rental and him leaving for the Magic was better for him and for the Spurs. He's a small forward technically but he's actually more of a point guard and he was never going to get enough touches next to the Big Three.

Signing Barry turned out to be a decent move, although using hindsight it's hard to argue against the Spurs locking up Stephen Jackson. If the Spurs would have kept Jack, I highly doubt the Spurs lose to the Mavs in 2006 ... and probably not the Lakers in 2004 :depressed

Sjax was one of my favorite players in 2003. He's still one of my favorite players and Spurs player. When he got traded to the Warriors I thought maybe they don't want him and could release him, but he to do what he does and there was no way the Warriors were letting him go.

Anyway I really do think the Spurs were worried about another Jaren Jackson on their hands so really you gotta blame Jaren for the Spurs not gambling to resign Sjax. Do you agree?

[Manufan909]

[/B]

It really makes you wonder how fortunes would have changed had the Spurs just decided to give the '03 a chance to defend it's title like the way they let the '07 have an opportunity. Granted, Dave, Kerr, and a couple of vets at the end of the bench would have had to been replaced, but it still makes you wonder.

The "Accidental Championship" year, which was in referrence to the Spurs supposedly being in a transition year-not a slight, has turned out to be the year of "Unintended Consequence."

Because the franchise had eyes on '04 being "their year", they didn't pick up Speedy's option-in part due to wanting to keep financial flexibility-, they passed on Howard- which had everything to do with financial flexibility, and they struck-out on Kidd- the reason they needed the financial flexibility.

Kidd not coming turned out to be a blessing in disguise, but given hindsight?

Had they been able to give that team a chance to repeat?

They come back the next year with the Big 3, Jack, Bowen, Speedy, and a rookie named Howard.:depressed

The Spurs could've gotten Dwight from the draft?

[JustinJDW]

Underdevolped Hedo? Hedo would have done a lot more than Brent Barry giving the opportunity. Brent Barry had so much opportunity and barely did anything except for bringing the ball up the court 8 minutes a game in the 2005 NBA Finals.Who the hell is talking about Barry? I am talking about Ginobili. Would I have rather kept Hedo then sign Barry, yeah. Do I think dropping Hedo cost us a Championship or two? No.

Hedo wasn't half as good as he is now in Orlando. Orlando had the time and space to have Hedo develop faster. Us, well we were to busy winning Championships with our already developed Big 3. We won three Championships in five years. You guys think having Hedo was going to make us win five for five or something? The only reason we didn't win the 2004 Championship was because of Fisher's lucky ass 0.4 shot. And the only reason we didn't win the 2006 Championship was because of Ginobili's stupid foul.

We didn't win those Championships because of those reasons, but even if those never happened, we might have lost to the Pistons in 04, or maybe the Heat in 06. Why do people act like not having Hedo cost us Championships?

[CNAVK]

ive never seen a player like Hedo where they start off good, then suck for 5 years, then suddenly get good again. its wierd

This is a good example how some players can actually improve under the right circumstances.

Hedo was not terrible when he was playing for Spurs. His confidence was very low beginning of the season but after Pop decided to put him in starting 5, he played quite well in the regular season. I guess he was leading the league in 3pt percentage at one stage late in the season and he finished with 42% for the season. Of course he played very bad in Lakers series and that was the end of his Spurs career.

His first year in Orlando was actually not a very good one. Right after T Mac trade and Steve Francis' first year with the team, it was not a good place to be. Then, coach Davis fired and replaced by Brian Hill. Hedo did not fit to his structured offense well. Finally when SVG was hired hedo found his niche. Of course Dwight Howard is important for his success but he is probably the only one on magic team who feeds Dwight effectively. I guess he benefited from playing with Chris Webber and Tim Duncan at contending teams early in his career.