No excuses: Redskins need a new nickname

[Blake]

By Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports

Last Friday, in a judicial decision that hinged on a legal technicality, the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C., upheld the right of the local pro football team to keep its unconscionable nickname.

Gloated team attorney Bob Raskopf, “It’s a great day for the Redskins and their fans and their owner, Dan Snyder.”

Alas, it was another shameful day for America.

In clinging to the most racially offensive moniker held by a major U.S. professional sports team since the Emancipation Proclamation – yes, I know, since forever – the franchise continues to offend some Native Americans and assault the sensibilities of a citizenry that should be long past such insensitive and shallow depictions.

How can a large majority of us not be offended? Imagine trying to explain “Redskins” to a foreign visitor or a time-traveler from the future? Every time I say the word, I throw up in my mouth a little and wonder why there is no widespread outrage.

I’ve heard all the arguments about why this name should be allowed to exist, and they move me about as much as Jim Zorn’s red-zone offense in a tight game against a strong opponent. (Sorry – I realize that was a cheap shot. Besides, I wouldn’t want to get ‘Skins fans ticked off at me or anything.)

You can spare me the protestations about how the name is actually a tribute to Native Americans, or how other allegedly similar groups (Vikings? Really?) are also consigned to mascot status. You can skip the talk about the importance of the team name to its fans or the tradition that would be compromised were it to be changed.

I’m not hearing it, because if I close my eyes and think about where we are as a society and the fact that this name still exists, it’s a complete travesty on both visceral and logical levels.

Would we “honor,” say, Chicago’s African-American population by calling its NFL team the Brownskins?

If the NBA placed a franchise in Hawaii, would it consider paying homage to the islands’ Asian influences by competing as the Yellowskins?

And while I’m sure we could all come up with some Jewish slurs to continue the analogy, I submit that an anti-Semetic major league owner like Marge Schott might’ve been quite comfortable fielding a team known as the Foreskins.

Ridiculous? Absolutely. And Redskin is just as absurd, whether you’ve been conditioned to regard it as normal or not.

Worse, it’s blatantly offensive, and don’t bother trotting out the examples of certain Native Americans who regard it as a sign of great respect. The fact that even a handful of them were upset enough to sue to stop the name from existing, a legal fight that has gone on for 17 years and counting, should be enough to let decency prevail. And if you’re angrily composing an email telling me how the name’s meaning to you and your fellow fans supersedes the desires of these people not to be publicly lampooned, I’m going to bet my last Abe Lincoln note that you’re not a member of a traditionally oppressed minority group.

If changing the name of the established team in the nation’s capital seems so unthinkable, you might be forgetting about the Washington Wizards, who from 1963-1997 were known as the Bullets. Two years earlier owner Abe Pollin had announced that, because he had grown uncomfortable with the nickname’s violent overtones, the NBA franchise would be rechristened, and a fan contest ensued.

So the Bullets became the Wizards, and guess what? The sun came up the next morning, the rivers continued to flow to the oceans, and Calbert Cheaney kept getting beat off the dribble. (OK, that was a cheap shot, too. Just making sure you’re still paying attention.)

Things change. Societies evolve. The improbable becomes reality. Remember, there’s a family that recently moved to a D.C. residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, and its presence there made a statement to the world about how far our country has come in terms of racial enlightenment.

Since the words “President” and “Obama” became Siamese twins (oops, another outdated term), it has never been so tough to make the argument that in the United States, a person’s skin color is a primary means by which he/she is judged.

Unless, of course, you’re part of that minuscule slice of the population that pays attention to pro football. Those of us, like our current commander in chief, who fall into that category need to think long and hard about our tolerance for such a preposterously backward name in such a conspicuous setting.

The Redskins may have had their day in court and prevailed, at least for the time being. It’s my sincere hope that before too long, the court of public opinion is far less forgiving.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Big deal. Does anyone really care if the 12 remaining Native Americans are offended?

[manufan10]

Seriously, this is dumb. It's just a name of a team, get over it. I swear some people aren't happy unless they're complaining about something. Pretty soon PETA is going to start clamoring on about how they can't use animal names because that's degrading and hurts the animals feelings.

If you want to complain about name changes what about the Lakers? There are no Lakes in LA.

Utah Jazz: Salt Lake City is not overwhelmed with jazz clubs left and right like New Orleans is, where the Jazz were originally from. Heck, outside Salt Lake, you'd be lucky to find anything civilized. It is one giant combo of desert, mountains, snow and one big city.

Seriously though, it's not that big a deal.

[Extra Stout]

The key problem with this issue is that virtually no one cares.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The Robstown High School mascot is the Cotton Picker, you don't see Mexicans in an uproar about that.

[manufan10]

the robstown high school mascot is the cotton picker, you don't see mexicans in an uproar about that.

+1

[Blake]

big deal. Does anyone really care if the 12 remaining native americans are offended?

7

[Blake]

The Robstown High School mascot is the Cotton Picker, you don't see Mexicans in an uproar about that.

not yet

[manufan10]

7

There's only 7 left? :depressed

[Blake]

There's only 7 left? :depressed

that's the number of Native Americans that were plaintiffs in the suit.

The reason they lost the case according to the judge was that "they waited to long to file"

[bresilhac]

Having lived in the area and a devout Redskin fan myself I can actually sympathize with both sides of the argument. I can sympathize with native american groups because yes, it is a racially offensive name. But on the other hand the Redskins nickname is apart of a great and long held tradition in the Washington, DC area. This is why the movement to change the name of the team can never get any traction. It would be like changing the cowboys name to ranch hands or buckaroos or the cowpigs which is what I call them. It would never fly.

[ducks]

I agree cowboys could be offesive to many people
back west,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Dr. Gonzo]

not yet

South Texas Mexicans aren't big pussies. They don't give 2 shits about it.

So it's racially offensive, big deal. People need to quit getting their vaginas hurt at everything and get this country back to having a pair of balls. All this PC bullshit is ridiculous.

[manufan10]

South Texas Mexicans aren't big pussies. They don't give 2 shits about it.

So it's racially offensive, big deal. People need to quit getting their vaginas hurt at everything and get this country back to having a pair of balls. All this PC bullshit is ridiculous.

:toast

[J.T.]

Wonder what Tonto has to say about this

[NewJerSpur]

How about the Foreskins...that's what I call them.

:lol

Have to remember that one. Wonder if any of these teams named after Native Americans and their tribes give anything to surrounding Native American communities financially for their use of these namesakes/symbols in sports? The Indians' logo and the Redskins' name just need to be banished.

[jack sommerset]

This is America. You can call yourselves whatever you want. You don't like it, don't watch.

[NewJerSpur]

Like our American president proclaimed: "It's time for a change."

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think New York should change their name from the Giants to something less offensive to overweight and large people.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The Cowboys should change to the more gender-neutral Dallas Cowpersons.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Somalian pirates may be offended by the name Buccaneers. That should be changed as well.

[Blake]

eh.....

quite a bit different.

[NewJerSpur]

If the Warner Bros. (which I grew up on btw) could clean up the stereotypical overtones in their cartoons for children over the years, grown adults should be able to realize when something is not only offensive but an exploitation of another group's culture and take it upon themselves to come out of the dark ages.

[manufan10]

If it's so offensive, why do they wait for so long to do something about it? This has been the name since 1930's, surely if it was SO offensive someone would have done something before now. Why wait till the 2000's before complaining? If I was offended by something I wouldn't wait 70 years before complaining.

[Blake]

If it's so offensive, why do they wait for so long to do something about it? This has been the name since 1930's, surely if it was SO offensive someone would have done something before now. Why wait till the 2000's before complaining? If I was offended by something I wouldn't wait 70 years before complaining.

Native Americans have had bigger things to complain about over the past 70 years.

One thing at a time.

[manufan10]

Native Americans have had bigger things to complain about over the past 70 years.

One thing at a time.

Only 7 Native Americans were on the suit. Seriously, this stuff is way out of hand. It's a team name, get over it. It's not that big of a deal. Fighting for land or racial equality is a big deal. Getting butt hurt over a team name isn't a big deal.

I'm from the south, I don't like the Yankees team name. It brings back all the pain and suffering from the Civil War, they need to change their name.


The Cowboys should change to the more gender-neutral Dallas Cowpersons.


Somalian pirates may be offended by the name Buccaneers. That should be changed as well

The Patriots need to change their name, because look at what they did to the Native Americans. Look at all the killing they did. The poor British and French.

Like I said, it's just a sports team name. People need to learn to lighten up.

[Blake]

Only 7 Native Americans were on the suit. Seriously, this stuff is way out of hand.

how many of them need to be in on it before it's considered offensive?


It's a team name, get over it. It's not that big of a deal. Fighting for land or racial equality is a big deal. Getting butt hurt over a team name isn't a big deal.

I'm from the south, I don't like the Yankees team name. It brings back all the pain and suffering from the Civil War, they need to change their name.

The Patriots need to change their name, because look at what they did to the Native Americans. Look at all the killing they did. The poor British and French.

Like I said, it's just a sports team name. People need to learn to lighten up.

you really have no clue.

[samikeyp]

New mascot, problem solved. :)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1365/1360218471_985fbacdf5.jpg?v=0

[manufan10]

how many of them need to be in on it before it's considered offensive?



you really have no clue.

Why is it only offensive to one group of people? Seriously. If Native Americans can get offended over it, why can't other people? It doesn't make sense. But if one group of people can think it's offensive, then what stops others? It shouldn't. SO when I say I'm offended at some team name, I don't have a clue. :nope Why the double standard? If Silverman from Yahoo really felt like the Redskins should change their name, why did he wait until now to write an article about it? Why is he not up in arms about other team names that might be considered offensive to some? If it really is offensive, why wait until now to try and get the name changed?

[manufan10]

What's wrong with the name Whitefish High School? According to P.E.T.A., the use of the word "Whitefish" does not promote empathy for fish and other marine animals.

P.E.T.A. (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animal) sent a letter to Whitefish High School Principal Kent Paulson, urging him to change the name of the high school from "Whitefish High" to "Sea Kitten High".

P.E.T.A. launched their Sea Kitten Campaign in October, in hopes that everyone will start referring to fish and other marine animals as sea kittens.

The letter states, "we're proposing that Whitefish High School adopt a new name to reflect the gentle nature of it's current marine namesake. If the town starts calling fish, "sea kittens", fewer of these gentle animals would be violently killed for food, painfully hooked for "sport," or cruelly confined to aquariums".

http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=9637744

[samikeyp]

I agree with PETA, meat is murder.


Tasty, tasty murder. :lol

[manufan10]

I agree with PETA, meat is murder.


Tasty, tasty murder. :lol

I love Rudy's:

http://www.rudys.com/store/images/PRODUCT/icon/32.gif

[Blake]

Why is it only offensive to one group of people? Seriously. If Native Americans can get offended over it, why can't other people?

Who says other people aren't offended?


It doesn't make sense. But if one group of people can think it's offensive, then what stops others? It shouldn't. SO when I say I'm offended at some team name, I don't have a clue. :nope Why the double standard?

What team name offends you and why?


If Silverman from Yahoo really felt like the Redskins should change their name, why did he wait until now to write an article about it? Why is he not up in arms about other team names that might be considered offensive to some? If it really is offensive, why wait until now to try and get the name changed?

why did he write the article at all? What does time have to do with it being any less offensive? Why did slaves wait so long to complain about not getting equal rights as the white man?

You are clueless.

[Blake]

What's wrong with the name Whitefish High School? According to P.E.T.A., the use of the word "Whitefish" does not promote empathy for fish and other marine animals.

P.E.T.A. (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animal) sent a letter to Whitefish High School Principal Kent Paulson, urging him to change the name of the high school from "Whitefish High" to "Sea Kitten High".

P.E.T.A. launched their Sea Kitten Campaign in October, in hopes that everyone will start referring to fish and other marine animals as sea kittens.

The letter states, "we're proposing that Whitefish High School adopt a new name to reflect the gentle nature of it's current marine namesake. If the town starts calling fish, "sea kittens", fewer of these gentle animals would be violently killed for food, painfully hooked for "sport," or cruelly confined to aquariums".

http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=9637744

Let me know when actual whitefish have a problem with the logo, although I would guess that if they could talk, they would worry more about cruelty and torture to whitefish.

You are clueless.

[manufan10]

Who says other people aren't offended?



What team name offends you and why?



why did he write the article at all? What does time have to do with it being any less offensive? Why did slaves wait so long to complain about not getting equal rights as the white man?

You are clueless.

You said I was clueless. You wrote that I have no clue when I said people can be offended by other team names, then you question that other people are not offended. Nice one. LMAO, how do you know how long the slaves complained about being slaves? :bang That was a pathetic response. Explain to me why the name is so offensive.

[manufan10]

Let me know when actual whitefish have a problem with the logo, although I would guess that if they could talk, they would worry more about cruelty and torture to whitefish.

You are clueless.

They don't have a voice. PETA is doing that job. So should the school change it's name because PETA finds it offensive?

[manufan10]

According to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Web site, Marshall changed the name of the team in 1933 to the Boston Redskins legend has it, he did it in honor of the team’s head coach, a Native American named William “Lone Star” Dietz.

[Blake]

Explain to me why the name is so offensive.

because Native Americans are saying it's offensive.

You are still clueless.

[Blake]

They don't have a voice. PETA is doing that job. So should the school change it's name because PETA finds it offensive?

no because whitefish aren't offended and it's legal and morally acceptable to the good majority to kill and eat them.

you are clueless.

[Dr. Gonzo]

It all comes back to white guilt. That's the reason any stupid ass white person thinks this is an issue. Deep down all Anglos feel guilty for killing off a whole nation of people and stealing their land so they feel they can "make up for it" by taking away cool sports names.

[Blake]

It all comes back to white guilt. That's the reason any stupid ass white person thinks this is an issue. Deep down all Anglos feel guilty for killing off a whole nation of people and stealing their land so they feel they can "make up for it" by taking away cool sports names.

Native Americans think it's an issue. That's why they took the Redskins to court.

I'm betting if they were called the Blackskins and had a logo of a slave, they would probably have BET covering the court proceedings minute by minute.

Of course, whities would probably just give in because of the guilt.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yes they would. White people are stupid.

And once all 15 Native Americans that are still around die off and their entire race becomes extinct because of what the white man did to them, it will be seen more as a tribute than anything else.

[Thompson]

because Native Americans are saying it's offensive.

You are still clueless.

I'm (part) 'Native American' (Cherokee and Osage), and I find it offensive that they would try to remove a mascot that honors my ancestors.

[Dr. Gonzo]

But it's offensive.

[manufan10]

because Native Americans are saying it's offensive.

You are still clueless.

Not all think it's offensive. A select few do, but not all.

[samikeyp]

Ok, I kind of understand the redskin name being offensive to some because it is an insult but I am curious to know how sports teams that have tribal names (cherokees, chippewas) are offensive. I know that sometimes the mascot costumes can be stupid and insulting but the name itself? Again, just curious.

[Thompson]

But it's offensive.

Not to me. Red skin is nothing to be ashamed of. It is not meant to be derogatory. How many teams name their players something they intend as insulting? A select few perhaps, but not many. You don't see 'Carolina Dung Beetles' or the like. This is PC garbage by people who want to be offended.

[Blake]

Yes they would. White people are stupid.

And once all 15 Native Americans that are still around die off and their entire race becomes extinct because of what the white man did to them, it will be seen more as a tribute than anything else.

so Blackskins would be a tribute to the African Americans.

great.

[Blake]

I'm (part) 'Native American' (Cherokee and Osage), and I find it offensive that they would try to remove a mascot that honors my ancestors.

so the Cleveland Indian logo honors your ancestors too?

this is amazingly great stuff today.

[manufan10]

so Blackskins would be a tribute to the African Americans.

great.

They already have a team, the Cleveland Browns.

[Blake]

They already have a team, the Cleveland Browns.

the Browns were named after someone whose last name was Brown.

Thanks for continuing to verify you really have no clue.

[manufan10]

the Browns were named after someone whose last name was Brown.

Thanks for continuing to verify you really have no clue.

Well my last name is Brown, and I'm offended. :lol

It's called sarcasm, get a clue.

http://www.profile-comments.com/images/posters/images/dumb.jpg

[manufan10]

According to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Web site, Marshall changed the name of the team in 1933 to the Boston Redskins legend has it, he did it in honor of the team’s head coach, a Native American named William “Lone Star” Dietz.

The Redskins are named in honor of a Native American. And I'm the clueless one. :rolleyes

[Blake]

The Redskins are named in honor of a Native American. And I'm the clueless one. :rolleyes

that's nothing more than a rumor.

Yes, you are the clueless one.

[manufan10]

that's nothing more than a rumor.

Yes, you are the clueless one.

Prove it.




2002 poll commissioned by Sports Illustrated found that 75% of those Native Americans surveyed had no objection to the Redskins name.

Price, S. L. (March 4, 2002), "The Indian Wars", Sports illustrated: 66, retrieved on 2008-06-14

[Thompson]

so the Cleveland Indian logo honors your ancestors too?


Can't say it bothers me. He's a goofy looking Indian. So what? Does Elmer Fudd offend white people?

[JamStone]

A change to the name has been a long time coming. It's time the change is finally made.

Re-name them the Washington Bullets.

Circle of life.

[pkbpkb81]

Not all think it's offensive. A select few do, but not all.

where are you getting your numbers becuse i know more than a select few who thaink its offensive

[pkbpkb81]

Not to me. Red skin is nothing to be ashamed of. It is not meant to be derogatory. How many teams name their players something they intend as insulting? A select few perhaps, but not many. You don't see 'Carolina Dung Beetles' or the like. This is PC garbage by people who want to be offended.

red skin was ment to be derogatory. maybe not the team name but in the old west it was used like the n word was to discribed blacks

[Thompson]

red skin was ment to be derogatory. maybe not the team name but in the old west it was used like the n word was to discribed blacks

The people who are suing were never in the 'old west', nor were the vast majority of people living today. Even if it was a derogatory reference then, as you admit the team did not mean it in that manner.

[JamStone]

I like to "play" with my "penis" and my penis is offended by the University of South Carolina mascot and nickname.

[NewJerSpur]

The people who are suing were never in the 'old west', nor were the vast majority of people living today. Even if it was a derogatory reference then, as you admit the team did not mean it in that manner.

Doesn't matter how it's meant if it's derogatory.

[Bukefal]

And while I’m sure we could all come up with some Jewish slurs to continue the analogy, I submit that an anti-Semetic major league owner like Marge Schott might’ve been quite comfortable fielding a team known as the Foreskins.
.

:lmao

[Blake]

Prove it.

prove what? that it's a rumor? It's on you to prove it's a fact.

either way, this is your ownpost jeenyus:


According to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Web site, Marshall changed the name of the team in 1933 to the Boston Redskins legend has it, he did it in honor of the team’s head coach, a Native American named William “Lone Star” Dietz.

:lol


Price, S. L. (March 4, 2002), "The Indian Wars", Sports illustrated: 66, retrieved on 2008-06-14

what percent does it take to make it offensive?

seriously, you are a clueless idiot.

[Blake]

Can't say it bothers me. He's a goofy looking Indian. So what? Does Elmer Fudd offend white people?

There is no team called the Whiteskins owned by Native Americans that uses Elmer Fudd as a logo.

fail.

[Thompson]

There is no team called the Whiteskins owned by Native Americans that uses Elmer Fudd as a logo.

fail.

If there was, would you be offended?

[manufan10]

prove what? that it's a rumor? It's on you to prove it's a fact.

either way, this is your ownpost jeenyus:



:lol



what percent does it take to make it offensive?

seriously, you are a clueless idiot.

If 75% of them don't find it offensive, why should you? It's not offensive. The majority of Native Americans say it's not offensive. Give me a break. Majority rules in this country, and the majority say it's not offensive. Just because there are a select few who think it is doesn't make it so. If they majority of Native Americans don't find it offensive, why should you? Why do you get to dictate what is offensive? Are you Native American? Get over it. Redskins won, and they're not changing their name. Get off you high horse. It's a team name. It's only offensive if you're a dumbass. You sir, are a dumbass.

[manufan10]

I like to "play" with my "penis" and my penis is offended by the University of South Carolina mascot and nickname.

:lmao

[Blake]

If there was, would you be offended?

a team named the Whiteskins owned by a group of Native Americans?

that's offensive enough to never get approved to begin with.

[Blake]

If 75% of them don't find it offensive, why should you? It's not offensive. The majority of Native Americans say it's not offensive. Give me a break. Majority rules in this country, and the majority say it's not offensive.

offensiveness isn't based on a vote. :lol
If one Native American says it's offensive to them and comes up with legitimate reasons why it's offensive, then that's all it takes to be offensive.


Just because there are a select few who think it is doesn't make it so. If they majority of Native Americans don't find it offensive, why should you?

if a number of them find it racially offensive with good reason, then I'm offended that a white man that owns the rights to the team name doesn't see the need to change it.


Why do you get to dictate what is offensive? Are you Native American? Get over it. Redskins won, and they're not changing their name.

they won on a technicality.....not because anyone decided that it wasn't offensive.


Get off you high horse. It's a team name. It's only offensive if you're a dumbass. You sir, are a dumbass.

so the other 25% of Native Americans that are offended at the racial undertones of the word "redskin" are dumbasses?

No, you are clearly the clueless dumbass.

[Thompson]

If people really want to move past all the racial divisiveness they need to develop thicker skins. If you try to feel slighted even by things that were not meant to be derogatory, you will find an endless supply of things to bitch about. Grow up a bit. 75% of American Indians have.

[NewJerSpur]

It doesn't matter if only 25% of the people polled took offense as opposed to 75%....taking offense for ignorance is still justified. Much of them may be desensitized to the stupidity at this point, seeing what Native Americans are regularly subjected to, and they might also feel that fighting one of America's past-times is a losing battle....doesn't mean it's any less of a good cause to help eradicate ignorance. The skin Native Americans have had to develop is thicker than whale blubber, they have every right to call out any industry/organization that casts them in a "less than favorable light", exploits their culture, or refers to them in derogatory fashion whether avertently or seemingly inadvertently.

[Bigzax]

at this point, what's a few more dead indians...

just kill the one's that are offended and problem solved.

go ahead and ask them one last time if they find it offensive before pulling the trigger though...

it's the right thing to do. :tu

[LakerHater]

I played softball against a buncha guys who called themselfs the wetbacks, people need to grow up & stop being so sensitive... FUCK!!!

& why now after 76 yrs., why?
Cuz its the "PC" thing to do cuz everyone else is doing it, GTFOa here conformist fucks get your own spine!!


LEAVE THE NAME!!!!

[Spursfan092120]

so the Cleveland Indian logo honors your ancestors too?

this is amazingly great stuff today.
Not sure where you get off, Blake...you say Native Americans find the Redskins offensive, but when a Native American says it would be offensive to remove it, you act like a child. The name was given as the Redskins in HONOR of a Native American...and these people say it's an insult? Jeez...

[Spursfan092120]

offensiveness isn't based on a vote. :lol
If one Native American says it's offensive to them and comes up with legitimate reasons why it's offensive, then that's all it takes to be offensive.

so the other 25% of Native Americans that are offended at the racial undertones of the word "redskin" are dumbasses?

No, you are clearly the clueless dumbass.
So what you're saying is that because 25% of the people think it should be changed, it should be changed? That's ignorant. That's like when 5 out of 100 people say "In God We Trust" should be taken off the dollar bill, so we automatically should take it off...sorry Blake..argue all you want...you're wrong.

[Spursfan092120]

red skin was ment to be derogatory. maybe not the team name but in the old west it was used like the n word was to discribed blacks
The name Redskins was given to the team in honor of a Native American. There are a lot of Indians who would be angry if the term that was given in honor of their heritage was taken away...

[monosylab1k]

http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/native-americans-should-have-fought-harder-you-pussies/

[NewJerSpur]

Great article Blake, glad you posted it. Good to know there are those out there (that have access to a media platform) and still feel there needs to be change despite the social pressure sports culture may create. As long as there are voices still clamoring for it, the day of change is still in view.

[Spursfan092120]

http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/native-americans-should-have-fought-harder-you-pussies/
LMAO...dude..I was thinking of this shirt..but I didn't post it..lol

[K-State Spur]

red skin was ment to be derogatory. maybe not the team name but in the old west it was used like the n word was to discribed blacks

not today. today, the vast majority of its use is in respect to a football franchise.

if anything, the franchise name has taken power away from that euphemism.

[NewJerSpur]

at this point, what's a few more dead indians...

just kill the one's that are offended and problem solved.

go ahead and ask them one last time if they find it offensive before pulling the trigger though...

it's the right thing to do. :tu

That should suffice....and also have Dan Snyder do their eulogies in which he would say, "They truly died for the name."

The cool thing about message boards remain a platform for thoughts/ideas, no matter how radical. Someone who might have a great deal of influence in sports culture/society in the futute maybe reading this thread and may be having their outlook on the nickname shaped/or reshaped in a way that mgith propmt them to use what sway they may have down the line to promote a change in this area. Toss seeds into the winds of change.

[shelshor]

The Robstown High School mascot is the Cotton Picker, you don't see Mexicans in an uproar about that.

John Deere or International Harvester?

[exstatic]

:lol Most native americans couldn't GAF. They're laughing all the way to the bank as they use casinos to fleece back their money from the stupid white man. Pretty soon they'll be handing out blankets to the white poor. Hopefully they don't lace them with smallpox the way we did to them.

[NewJerSpur]

Maybe then they can buy the team and change the name.

[Spursfan092120]

:lol Most native americans couldn't GAF. They're laughing all the way to the bank as they use casinos to fleece back their money from the stupid white man. Pretty soon they'll be handing out blankets to the white poor. Hopefully they don't lace them with smallpox the way we did to them.
lol @ South Park reference.

[Whisky Dog]

I don't give a shit what their name is, but they are run by some stupid mofos. The Washington Redskins are going to draft an elite pass rusher, a guy who can get to the QB and bring his ass down at any level of football and make him stand up as a LB covering running backs in the flat? These stupid ass fucks are going to ruin the huge QB smashing talents of Brian Orakpo

[Whisky Dog]

I saaaaiiiiidddddd.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol Most native americans couldn't GAF. They're laughing all the way to the bank as they use casinos to fleece back their money from the stupid white man. Pretty soon they'll be handing out blankets to the white poor. Hopefully they don't lace them with smallpox the way we did to them.

Hmmm, you should drive through the Native reservations I just drove through and then say that with a straight face. Pretty much the poorest places in our country.

[MannyIsGod]

lol @ South Park reference.

There was a South Park reference in there?

[MannyIsGod]

I've had discussions about this with someone who has dome some intensive native studies. Oh one hand, I feel its a blatantly offensive name and Blake is completely right when he says that if there was a Blackskins mascot with a black dude running around on the field we'd have Al Sharpton with a pitchfork trying to kill Daniel Snyder.

On the other hand, I agree with ES when he says that no one really cares anymore.

There's really no justification for the name other than its no longer much of an issue and most natives don't care but that doesn't necessarily make it right.

[TFloss32]

I come to the defense of Blake and NewJerSpur only because of the ignorant comments made on this board, but not in the sense that the Redskins should change their name. Y'all need to let it go and worry about something else. This PC stuff has got to stop. You can always find something that offends you, but luckily we're in America (and there's nothing in the Constitution for protection against hurt feelings) and the Redskins have the right to retain their name (especially since the name has no malicious intent behind it). Someone made a great point about the Yankees...what about all of the people in this country whose forefathers were killed by Union soldiers, aka Yankees, in the Civil War? Like you said, if it affects one person (which I'm sure it does somewhere), then it's legit. There's probably waaaaay more people who can relate to that than those who can relate to being a "redskin." You have never, and never will, hear the Yankee argument from anyone (and if you do, tell them to shut up) because it's ridiculous. Just like the Redskin argument is ridiculous. I'm not losing sleep over the Yankees and neither are the people who say "redskin" bothers them (I also know this doesn't really bother Blake and NewJerSpur).

And people who are against PC (political correctness) need to stop making ignorant comments to get their points across because it gives people like Blake and NewJerSpur a leg to stand on.

[NewJerSpur]

WOW, all THREE of those lines coming to my defense, sort of....I'm honored.

For me, it's not about political correctness but more about not being ignorant, which is what one would be if they spotted a Native American in the street and said, "Excuse me, Redskin, can you help me out?" Based on the name and the logo that symbolizes it, we should feel free/obliged to do so, though I don't quite think as many take advantage of the opportunity as they should. Not quite the same as calling someone a Yankee and I also doubt the descendants of Confederate soldiers have quite the same citizenship issues that Native Americans deal with as a result of that war.

The other funny part to this discussion is the fact that there isn't a strong representation of Native Americans in the media to counter/balance/offset the ignorant sybolisms of these people (I'm saying these people like I'm not 1/16 or so Native American myself) and their culture, so what you see is what you think you get unless you do more research on their history and current plight today to gain a better appreciation.

As I said earlier, there are people who's understanding of the symbolism causes them to want to go into action to make a to stomp the ignorance out and there are those that may have grown desensitized to it IMO. Hopefully, there are those here (active members or lurkers) that after reading through these threads take into consideration all of these perspectives and use them to plant seeds of change in the future.

[TFloss32]

First of all, I appreciate you being able to debate with me without getting defensive or making stupid jokes that are completely off the topic :toast. It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. You make very valid points, but you're wishing for things that will never come to fruition because they're not a priority for our country (even though they probably should be). And I seriously doubt anyone is ignorant enough (unless they were purposely being stupid) to walk up to a Native American and say, "Hey, Mr. Redskin." PC and ignorance go hand in hand.

Back to the Yankee comment...I made an analogy in order to get the point across that both names are linked to extreme violence and death. Just because the majority of people killed in the Civil War were white men, it doesn't make it any less of a sensitive subject. All in all, there are so many high school, college and pro teams that would have to change their names if you dig deep enough to find a problem with that name. Native Americans have much bigger problems than worrying about if a professional sports team is using an offensive nickname.

I agree with you on the media comment....but seriously, we both know mainstream media (both left and right) is complete crap. They report biased news or anything that will get them ratings (can anyone here watch Bill O'Reilly or Charles Gibson without cringing?) I mean, I have to hear about what kind of dog the Obama family is getting for the White House for two weeks straight. Why do you think Americans are so uninformed about everything? They let biased media outlets do the thinking for them. You're never going to hear about the crappy lifestyle that most Native Americans have to handle on a daily basis unless you seek out info for yourself. It's not a media priority and never will be. I'm all for making positive change, but people have to pick their battles and this certain Native American group is just spinning their wheels with Redskin thing.

Even if the Redskins were to drop their name... it would not change the history of the Native American people, improve the oppressed lifestyle that they currently live or enlighten anyone (who may be ignorant of their situation) to that oppressed lifestyle. You can say it's a step in the direction towards "change," but we know it won't make a difference because people would forget about it just as quickly as they were informed.

[Blake]

First of all, I appreciate you being able to debate with me without getting defensive or making stupid jokes that are completely off the topic. It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. You make very valid points, but you're wishing for things that will never come to fruition because they're not a priority for our country (even though they probably should be). And I seriously doubt anyone is ignorant enough (unless they were purposely being stupid) to walk up to a Native American and say, "Hey, Mr. Redskin."

Back to the Yankee comment...I made an analogy in order to get the point across that both names are linked to extreme violence and death. Just because the majority of people killed in the Civil War were white men, it doesn't make it any less of a sensitive subject. All in all, there are so many high school, college and pro teams that would have to change their names if you dig deep enough to find a problem with that name. Native Americans have much bigger problems than worrying about if a professional sports team is using an offensive nickname.

I agree with you on the media comment....but seriously, we both know mainstream media (both left and right) is complete crap. They report biased news or anything that will get them ratings (can anyone here watch Bill O'Reilly or Charles Gibson without cringing?) I mean, I have to hear about what kind of dog the Obama family is getting for the White House for two weeks straight. Why do you think Americans are so uninformed about everything? They let biased media outlets do the thinking for them. You're never going to hear about the crappy lifestyle that most Native Americans have to handle on a daily basis unless you seek out info for yourself. It's not a media priority and never will be.

Even if the Redskins were to drop their name... it would not change the history of the Native American people, improve the oppressed lifestyle that they currently live or enlighten anyone (who may be ignorant of their situation) to that oppressed lifestyle. You can say it's a step in the direction towards "change," but we know it won't make a difference. Even if it did people would forget just as quickly as they were informed.


How much of a priority it is to change the name is irrelevant.

If it's offensive to a group of people and they have legitimate reasons why it should be changed, then it should be changed. That's pretty much it.

Calling someone a yankee is not derogatory. I don't know anyone that finds it offensive.

[TFloss32]

How much of a priority it is to change the name is irrelevant.

If it's offensive to a group of people and they have legitimate reasons why it should be changed, then it should be changed. That's pretty much it.

Calling someone a yankee is not derogatory. I don't know anyone that finds it offensive.

You're right Blake, it is irrelevant. But since it's NOT a priority to the national media (which can affect any and everything) or anyone else besides certain Native Americans, it won't change. I'm not saying it should or should not be changed. All I know is the Redskins retain the right to keep their name regardless if it's ignorant or not PC. There's a reason why there aren't any laws or precedents set for hurt feelings, because someone is always going to be bitching about how something offends them (whether their argument holds water or not).

And I revert back to the Yankee comment because you, clearly, didn't read it all the way through. Yankee is not a derogatory term, but it is linked to extreme violence and the brutal history of our country. I bet that bothers some people (even though it shouldn't, because it's just a name). Should the Yankees change that if a group from the South is up in arms about it? And just because you don't know anyone that finds Yankee offensive, it doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm sure there's a hillbilly in Alabama somewhere that would love to get his hands on a "Yankee" :ihit because he wants to defend his great-great-great grandfather's honor. You never hear anyone say Redskin is offensive until a media outlet reports a story similar to this one and people all of a sudden want to take a stand on the issue (another good example of how the media controls most citizens' thinking). I'm sure you hadn't thought twice about it until you ran across this article. And, once again, I'm sure you don't really care.

[NewJerSpur]

First of all, I appreciate you being able to debate with me without getting defensive or making stupid jokes that are completely off the topic :toast. It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. You make very valid points, but you're wishing for things that will never come to fruition because they're not a priority for our country (even though they probably should be). And I seriously doubt anyone is ignorant enough (unless they were purposely being stupid) to walk up to a Native American and say, "Hey, Mr. Redskin." PC and ignorance go hand in hand.

That's my whole point right there in a nutshell. Doesn't sound too complimentary under normal circumstances but an exception is supposed to be made when it comes to sports apparently. As far as the PC and ignorance, I agree to a degree, but trying to be politically correct with terminology for a good number of people is done for the sake of simply not wanting to sound ignorant more so than a genuine desire to not want to be ignorant, that's why for me it goes a bit deeper than just political correctness.



Back to the Yankee comment...I made an analogy in order to get the point across that both names are linked to extreme violence and death. Just because the majority of people killed in the Civil War were white men, it doesn't make it any less of a sensitive subject. All in all, there are so many high school, college and pro teams that would have to change their names if you dig deep enough to find a problem with that name. Native Americans have much bigger problems than worrying about if a professional sports team is using an offensive nickname.

I have no problem with changing a name or group of names at the expense of promoting something ignorant or truly insensitive. Not sure Yankee quite carries the same racial tone as Redskin but I guess if it is offensive to those that still embrace the idea of a United States divided they have the right to push for a trade-off: the namesake for the Confederate flag I guess.



I agree with you on the media comment....but seriously, we both know mainstream media (both left and right) is complete crap. They report biased news or anything that will get them ratings (can anyone here watch Bill O'Reilly or Charles Gibson without cringing?) I mean, I have to hear about what kind of dog the Obama family is getting for the White House for two weeks straight. Why do you think Americans are so uninformed about everything? They let biased media outlets do the thinking for them. You're never going to hear about the crappy lifestyle that most Native Americans have to handle on a daily basis unless you seek out info for yourself. It's not a media priority and never will be. I'm all for making positive change, but people have to pick their battles and this certain Native American group is just spinning their wheels with Redskin thing.

The reason I think it's a good battle is because, again, there isn't even enough of a presence in the media to even balance/offset the demeaning namesakes and symbolisms that represent Native Americans and their culture. People are primarily given their ideas of such things through pervasive mediums such as professional and semi-pro sports, so I feel it's a good place to start the education process by first throwing out the antiquated ideas of who these people are.



Even if the Redskins were to drop their name... it would not change the history of the Native American people, improve the oppressed lifestyle that they currently live or enlighten anyone (who may be ignorant of their situation) to that oppressed lifestyle. You can say it's a step in the direction towards "change," but we know it won't make a difference because people would forget about it just as quickly as they were informed.

The name change itself likely wouldn't result in an immediate change regarding the plight of struggling Native American communities, but it opens the door for their identities to be reshaped within the eyes of the general public so they can climb out of the time warp they've been placed in/relegated to, be seen in more of a human light, and gain more of a voice with which to tell their current story.

EDIT: And agreeing to disagree is cool with me. The coolest thing in debating is having the opportunity to exchange ideas (as civilly as possible) with the potential to learn a new perspective (that may even make you sharpen yours that much more) as well as impart something that may help change someone else's in a positive way in the long run. Sounds corny, but it's the reason I don't have a problem discussing these things. :toast