Apologize to Brent Barry in this thread! [Archive]

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:00 PM

You can aplogize for wanting Ward and Sura period...

The argument was never about back up PG because most everyone liked Hart in that role...the debate was over getting a guy who could shoot at that positon as a specialist...and the guys you wanted were chokers...something I don't think Shane Heal is as evidenced by him playing the best games of his career against the dream team.

Just admit you are owned chump...I admitted when I was wrong about Pop playing Barry < 10 mins a game...

You credibility is at stake.

picnroll

03-27-2005, 04:00 PM

It's about fucking time. How's that?

And props to Rasho. He did a great job on Yao.

ducks

03-27-2005, 04:02 PM

sura has brought it more for the rockets then barry has for the spurs so far this season

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:03 PM

it's about fucking time?...you have selective memory...when hasn't he stepped under pressure this season...just tell me...

His played well when Manu was injured and he's played well when Duncan is injured..he's played well down the stretch of our biggest game of the seaosn and he's played almost the all the 4th quarter of our two biggest comebacks of the season...

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:03 PM

The argument was never about back up PG because most everyone liked Hart in that role.It most certainly was. Hart's time disappeared as the season went on and you didn't even notice.
the debate was over getting a guy who could shoot at that positon as a specialist.To you, because that's all you could think of.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:04 PM

ducks is a chokerlover too...

ducks thinks a player is good if he steps up against his former team...this means that ducks thinks Robert Horry is a choker and Steve Smith is clutch...

Ishta

03-27-2005, 04:04 PM

Thank you Brent for showing us you could play... Now all you have to do is keep it up!!
Rasho was great today. Totally a different player. Manu is BACK in a big way! The only question I have....What was up with Parker?

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:04 PM

something I don't think Shane Heal is as evidenced by him playing the best games of his career against the dream team.Don't bring up a guy that can't shoot better from the arc than Sura in the NBA. Mercer included.

Hook Dem

03-27-2005, 04:05 PM

Tell 'em again Whottt. :lmao

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:06 PM

It most certainly was. Hart's time disappeared as the season went on and you didn't even notice.To you, because that's all you could think of.

Well then you should be happy witht he lineup that choked in the playoffs against LA.....choker lover.

ducks

03-27-2005, 04:06 PM

ducks is a chokerlover too...

ducks thinks a player is good if he steps up against his former team...this means that ducks thinks Robert Horry is a choker and Steve Smith is clutch...

the reason I said I would give him props against sonics would mean he brught it for 5 straight games

also sonics are a good team

Brodels

03-27-2005, 04:07 PM

If you questioned his heart or his ability to play under pressure...you need to step up and give props...

You know who you are.

I'm glad he played well. I've questioned his ability to perform in the playoffs. He hasn't done that yet. If he does, I'll give him props. But we all knew he could what he did today, and I'm glad that he did it. The Spurs will need something from him down the stretch.

These are mere regular season games though. And while important, they don't really tell us how a player performs on the biggest stage.

And Chump can also apologize for wanting Charlie Ward and Bobby Sura as our playoff shooters last season...

You're right about that. Sura sucks. Not only is he a statpadder and a hothead, he did absolutely nothing to help his team win today. No thanks.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:07 PM

I wanted a shooter...we had a back up PG, one you wanted...and he sucked.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:07 PM

Well then you should be happy witht he lineup that choked in the playoffs against LA.Yes. Heal = championship.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:08 PM

I wanted a shooter...we had a back up PG, one you wanted...and he sucked.So get another one. A guy you won't have to waive because he's a cancer.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:09 PM

So get another one.

Yeah...another choker.

You are officially banned from any PG suggestions in the future until you learn toi discern the difference between a choker and a non choker..your back up PG suggestions are a danger to our team.

ducks

03-27-2005, 04:10 PM

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:10 PM

10 mpg

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:11 PM

Yes. Heal = championship.

Heal is international Aussie of the Year or some shit like that....and has a perfect post season FG%...

As opposed to your choker Sura who has a 000% post season 3 PCT.

I'll take my chances with Heal any day of the week...and if you had ever seen Heal play against the dream team you would know why...if you knew our good fortune of getting former NBL guys as our shooter you would also know why.

But you'd just rather choke.

Go root for the Rockets and Ward and Sura...you Florida State(the mecca of choking) choker loving motherfucker.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:12 PM

You can only talk about who was availble, hootie.

Was Heal available at the trade deadline?

wildbill2u

03-27-2005, 04:14 PM

I like the Barry trade and felt he would eventually come through because of his consistent stats over the years--but I must admit to being a little impatient. Lets just hope this streak lasts throughout the playoffs.

TwoHandJam

03-27-2005, 04:14 PM

I've been supporting Barry for some time now. Pop hasn't really tried as much as he could to best utilize Barry's skill set and Barry is also at fault for not trying harder to adjust his game to the Spurs' system. With Duncan out, the style of offense is better suited to the play he was used to in Seattle. Let's hope Pop and Barry can remember what worked when Tim returns.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:17 PM

according to you a player can not play well at all then hit a couple of shots in 4 and he had a great game :blah

All players struggle...few bounce back in the same game...those that do are special...

Jack sucked in the first half of the last game of the finals...he had 7 TO's...his performance as whole was hardly clutch or good...it was the moment that was clutch...clutch is done in moments...not for an entire game.

picnroll

03-27-2005, 04:17 PM

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:19 PM

You can only talk about who was availble, hootie.

Was Heal available at the trade deadline?

Pop is a choker lover too...He loved AJ and Hedo for one thing. And he prefers Devin over Barry. Andhe didnt like playing Steve Kerr.

Neither Jack or Elie were guys Pop thought of....they were suggested by players. And he traded Kerr away.

Slo spurs fan

03-27-2005, 04:20 PM

HEY, SPURS WON!!!!

Go get some beer and relax fellas! :drunk

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:20 PM

picnroll

03-27-2005, 04:22 PM

I don't give a sheit if it's because he has no gallbladder. No excuses. Good to see him playing like a Spur finally, not like a Clipper.

ducks

03-27-2005, 04:23 PM

yeah it is all duncan's fault
and the system that has won titles

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:23 PM

Pop is a choker lover too...He loved AJ and Hedo for one thing. And he prefers Devin over Barry.

Neither Jack or Elie were guys Pop thought of....they were suggested by players.That wasn't an answer.

I know you'd rather roll with the guy who shot .13 from the arc and .22 overall after the Knick game. He's one of those guys who "does alot of other things" on the floor, right? It supports your specuation so well.

Heal was a zero-dimensional player in the NBA.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:24 PM

The system has also choked more than it has produced titles...

I don't like 9 point and 10 TO games from Duncan...

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:25 PM

That wasn't an answer.

I know you'd rather roll with the guy who shot .13 from the arc after the Knick game and .22 overall. He's one of those guys who "does alot of other things" on the floor, right? It supports your specuation so well.

Might have been nice to give him more than 6 games to adjust to the longer NBA 3 when he was attemping to come back after the longest gap between
NBA stints in NBA history.

But no...a fucking idiot doesn't think that matters.

Whatever...Ward sucked and you wanted him.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:25 PM

The system has also choked more than it has produced titles...So has pretty much every system ever devised.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:27 PM

I don't give a sheit if it's because he has no gallbladder. No excuses. Good to see him playing like a Spur finally, not like a Clipper.

He made the playoffs as a Clipper...he wasn't playing like a Clipper even when he was one.

Just keep your Barry hate ready..because his struggles aren't over, they will return with the total inside out offense....

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:28 PM

Might have been nice to give him more than 6 games to adjust to the longer NBA 3 when he was attemping to come back after the longest gap between
NBA stints in NBA history. Yeah, his shooting might have gotten back up to his previous level of 27%.
Whatever...Ward sucked and you wanted him.Ward was available for the minimum. Who was available at that time that you wanted?

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:29 PM

So has pretty much every system ever devised.

Most sytems probably should fail...that's what separates the good ones from the suck...

But how many of them fail when they have the talent to win an NBA title backing them up?

But go ahead...let's waste the guard talent on this team...

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:30 PM

But how many of them fail when they have the talent to win an NBA title backing them up?But you blame the losses on chokers.

Make up your mind.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:34 PM

A choker is someone who shoots well within the system and then sucks in the playoffs when he is given even more of a chance to be successful(IE his bigman being doubled and him being wide the fuck open)....Hedo, Smitty...if they had struggled with it for the entire season I probably wouldn't think they are chokers.

The reason chokers suck is that they trick you into thinking they can come through when it matters, and let you down...This is why chokers are scum.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:35 PM

Then we'll find out if Barry is a choker.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:36 PM

Yeah, his shooting might have gotten back up to his previous level of 27%.

Agan you exhibit your total idiocy...some guys take more than 42 games to adjust to the NBA.

Ward was available for the minimum. Who was available at that time that you wanted?

Shane Heal.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:38 PM

Agan you exhibit your total idiocy...some guys take more than 42 games to adjust to the NBA.But since you wanted him a s aspecialist, how many games do you hoonestly think he would've played?
Shane Heal.He was under contract in Greece at the time. Again you exhibit your idiocy.

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:38 PM

Then we'll find out if Barry is a choker.

If he gets the chance in the clutch...as for overall play...he has struggled all season with the Spurs system and the inside out game.

To tell you the truth I am not entirely sure Ward is a choker...but he sucked his entire Spurs career that is the truth.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:39 PM

And all else is guessing

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:40 PM

But since you wanted him a s aspecialist, how many games do you hoonestly think he would've played?

He showed he could play the back up PG...we went 500% with him as the back up and Parker and Duncan both injured...

He was under contract in Greece at the time. Wrong, again.

Only because the Spurs chose the defesnive scrub with no game...

That choice made me wonder if Pop secretly hates Duncan...4 down often makes me think Pop hates Duncan...it almost seems as if he is trying to put as much pressure on Duncan as humanly possible.

1Parker1

03-27-2005, 04:40 PM

Damn Whott, must every thread or reply you post include the word "Barry?":)

Seriously though, very good game from him..actually very few couple of games in a row from him. He hit that first three pointer in the 4th, you could see he was pissed after that no call from the previous play. You could see it in his face that he was gonna make that three pointer or else. That's the kind of play we've been expected him to come up with all season long. Better late then never I guess :) Hopefully he keeps it up.

In other news, major Props to Rasho. Very, very good game offensively and defensively. Also, good job Bruce for those spotted up corner 3's.

....Actually, major props to every damn Spurs player who played today, from Wilks and Marks to Barry and Manu, they showed a lot of heart and poise :)

Gerryatrics

03-27-2005, 04:41 PM

I've been in this maze before. Whottt Pop has said he's been disappointed in Barry's play most of the season. Barry's teammates have said they've been disappointed in his play most of the season. Hell, Barry has said he's been disappointed in his play most of the season. Sorry but I'm going to have to go with Barry's opinion of his play over yours and geriatrics.

Nice hackjob with the name there. I've never said Barry was playing great this season, I never said his 3-point percentage was good enough. I know he hasn't played all season as well as he is capable of, I've been as disappointed in his play as anyone. But instead of saying stupid shit like he's the worst player in the NBA, he's not even a NBDL player or that his signing was the worst free agent signing in the history of basketball; I had faith.

Even with the cold shooting his passing was still solid, he was still a good ball handler on the rare occasion he was allowed to handle the ball, and he was still capable of attacking the basket and laying it in or dropping the runner. I know that Brent Barry brings more to the game then spotup three point shooting, even if you want to say that's the only reason he's here and that's the only thing he should be doing when he's out on the floor. Brent Barry makes the offense better even if his three's aren't dropping, now that they are he makes the offense much, much better.

When Brent gets in the flow of the game the Spurs' offense is smooth as hell, but because he got buried on the bench and only got sporadic minutes and struggled, he was labeled a choker by you dumbasses. You give him some touches like the Spurs have the last few games, and you can see what he can bring to the table. Stop making excuses and recognize. Brent Barry doesn't suck, he doesn't choke, he's stepped up his game when he was needed and has saved the Spurs' asses in big games. You made him into a scapegoat and you can't even admit he's not as horrible as you've made him out to be. He's averaging 19 points per game with TD out, while Parker is lost and I think Pop might actually be in a coma. Stop hating and give him some props, without the underhanded jabs or "he's temporarally stopped sucking" bullshit.

picnroll

03-27-2005, 04:42 PM

What inside out game are you talking about? Did you miss seeing that guy wearing 20 that's been the focus of the 4th quarter offense much of the year. That number 20 guy isn't posting up if you didn't notice. 4 down was the cliche from three years ago. Catch up with the times.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 04:44 PM

He showed he could play the back up PG.You wasnt those shooting numbers again?
we went 500% with him as the back up and Parker and Duncan both injured...Apologize for diminishing the guys who were actually resposible for those wins.
That choice made me wonder if Pop secretly hates Duncan...4 down often makes me think Pop hates Duncan...it almost seems as if he is trying to put as much pressure on Duncan as humanly possible.Yeah, that's it. Shaq hates getting the ball down low too. Hakeem and Kareem and Chamberlain -- they all wanted to park up at the free throw line and base the entire offense on whatever 10ppg career scoring guards their team happened to sign.

Apologize for diminishing Duncan.

picnroll

03-27-2005, 04:48 PM

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:50 PM

You wasnt those shooting numbers again?Apologize for diminishing the guys who were actually resposible for those wins.

At that point in the season every was shooting shitty from three...including Hdo and Bowen...

Yeah, that's it. Shaq hates getting the ball down low too. Hakeem and Kareem and Chamberlain

They don't like it when they get it and no one else steps up...

They don't like it when the entire team collapses on them because they don't repsect the perimeter game.

Why do you think Shaq always wants a great guard on his team..idiot.

-- they all wanted to park up at the free throw line and base the entire offense on whatever 10ppg career scoring guards their team happened to sign.

Apologize for diminishing Duncan.

Apologize for being an idiot twister.

Anyone can be wrong and skew the issue and refuse to admit it...want to check Malik and Nazr's rebounding averages now?

whottt

03-27-2005, 04:54 PM

Barry is finally going to the basket hard. Taking the foul. That's the difference. He's getting himself into the game. There wsa a stretch there where he had total loss of confidence and at that point he was an NBDL player. Hopefully he's past that. I want him to succeed as much as anyone Gerryatric.

And he should lose those flick threes. Those aren't the ones he's making.

Nontheless the Barry haters of note are showing a tremendous lack of character...

They rip the shit out of him when he struggles in the regular season and say it's his heart...yet when he plays well under pressure in the regular season they say he's just doing his job and they'll give him props in the playoffs...

Well if the playoffs are when you are going to judge his heart...then stop judging it in the regular season when he plays bad...

MannyIsGod

03-27-2005, 05:07 PM

Props to Barry for hopefully turning it on a few games back. This is great, and if he can keep it up, I'll be one of his biggest fans.

Rasho was awesome today as well, I just hope they can keep it up.

Gerryatrics

03-27-2005, 05:11 PM

The reason he's playing better is because of instead of randomly coming off the bench for two or three minutes at a time and being told to stand in the corner with his thumb up his ass while Timmy pumpfakes for 20 seconds while he balance his checkbook, writes folk music and eventually starts working on whether he should shoot or pass the ball; he's part of a more or less set rotation, he gets enough consistant minutes that he can get into the flow of the game instead of standing in the corner waiting for the pass so he can dump it back in to Duncan, he gets touches and handles the ball, he gets screens so he can run the give and go or split the defense and attack the basket, he leads the fast break so he can put up a streaking layup or dunk or drop a sweet pass to a teammate running the break with him, he can play aggressive without having to worry if Pop is going to pull him because the pass he tried to thread the needle with got batted down or he got caught in the air, he can draw the foul to get to the line where he's automatic, he can do touch passes and drop passes because the floor is spread out... and so on and so forth.

When he gets the rest of his game going his three's start dropping. Instead of calling him a spotup shooter and sticking him in the corner, maybe the Spurs should integrate him into the offense. Not only does the Spurs offense run much better, but when Brent gets into the flow of the game his three's start dropping. But then the Barry haters would have to find another scapegoat, and I guess we can't have that can we.

boutons

03-27-2005, 05:13 PM

Everybody admit it!! When Barry shot a three, you held your breath!!

I think we're finally getting our money's worth. With everybody shooting so bad today, a lot of pressure on the every shot, and Brent didn't flinch. Wonderful.

picnroll

03-27-2005, 05:14 PM

If it was Marks or Wilks or Beno or even Brown expectations would not be so high. Fact is Barry is a critical piece with high expectations of him to make the Spurs' champioship a likelihood. Specifically his shooting. That's why he was signed. I'm sure if Duncan were averageing 15 poits and 7 rebounds I and everybody else would be on his case too. That's about the equivalent of how Barry has been meeting expectations up to the last few games. Barry should have been averaging 13 - 15 points and easily in the top 10 in 3 point FG%. Those were and are reasonbale expectations for him to fulfill his role. Or maybe it should be "he's such a nice guy let's just say he's been playing great".

picnroll

03-27-2005, 05:16 PM

Gerryatrics he had a very defined role for much of the early season and then he started stinking it up for an extended period which is when he lost his consistent spot in the rotation.

And nobody was telling Barry to stand in the corner with his thumb up his ass. He chose to do that on his own.

dcole50

03-27-2005, 05:19 PM

his performance today has me very confident. i'm convinced that he is going to make some big shots in the playoffs for us.

boutons

03-27-2005, 05:20 PM

A LOT of pressure on Brent today, since nobody's shots were falling in the 2nd, and 3rd.

This should fully kill any doubts he or anybody else had about his ability to take pressure.

E20

03-27-2005, 05:26 PM

It's only been 2 games...........

whottt

03-27-2005, 05:30 PM

It's only been 2 games...........

3 games...all with Duncan out.

He lead the team in scoring twice in a row...off the bench...with Duncan out.

That's stepping up whe the pressure is on...and the lack of a dominant bigman is something Barry is used too...

This is why when Duncan is on the bench Barry should be running the team...this is the way I thought was he going to be used, and early in the season when we were doing that, our bench looked to be one of the best in NBA history...we were doing it even with Duncan in the game.

and then Pop turned into a dickhead becuase we were winning too easily and Barry can't defend as well as Devin Brown, and put Barry in a competition with a rookie and an NBDL player... and Barry and our bench and our team have never as looked as good again.

Kori Ellis

03-27-2005, 05:34 PM

Brent Barry was frickin' HUGE today.

He was fearless and knocked down big shots.

I'm not sure if I'm sorry for bashing him when he was playing poorly though. :)

But awesome game by Brent.

E20

03-27-2005, 05:34 PM

OK 3 games........

whottt

03-27-2005, 05:36 PM

Kori, Manny, and even 1Parker have crediblity :)

PicNRoll continues his slide from elite to scrub poster, and E20 and ducks get no props whatsoever.

It looks like it's going to take ducks hitting rockbottom on his vbookie total for him to realize the error of his ways. karma is a bitch.

timvp

03-27-2005, 05:37 PM

Barry is finally is playing like he should.

Props.

:smokin

whottt

03-27-2005, 05:37 PM

And don't evne get me started on Chump...for Chump to be losing credibility he/she/it would first have had to have some to lose.

E20

03-27-2005, 05:38 PM

WTF, I've supported Barry when everybody called him a garbage scrub.

exstatic

03-27-2005, 05:40 PM

I'll apologize when his good efforts have outnumbered his stinker games. He's about 40 in the hole now.

Gee, Gerry, I guess all we have to do is get rid of that Duncan scrub, and Barry might play worth a shit, huh?

whottt

03-27-2005, 05:42 PM

erratic continues to show the winning form he often exhibits in political debates[/sarcasm]

TimVP continues to be Barry's harshest critic in bad games and his most reluctant to give props after good ones.

toosmallshoes

03-27-2005, 05:44 PM

This is the way we expected Barry to play all season. This is what the hype was all about. This is what he was capable of all along. Keep it up dude.

timvp

03-27-2005, 05:46 PM

whottt continues to be Barry's biggest nvtrider in bad games and his most avid nvtswinger after good ones.

whottt

03-27-2005, 05:47 PM

WTF, I've supported Barry when everybody called him a garbage scrub.

He was 1 point away today from leading the team in scoring...3 games in row...off the bench....with Duncan injured...and today was against probably one of the top 3 defensive teams in the NBA.

That's is called fucking stepping up, no two ways about it.

whottt

03-27-2005, 05:47 PM

whottt continues to be Barry's biggest nvtrider in bad games and his most avid nvtswinger after good ones.

This true...whottt also continues to be right...:smokin

Whottt also hasn't stepped away and left a fellow soldier under intense fire in midbattle during Rose fights...

Kori Ellis

03-27-2005, 05:49 PM

TimVP continues to be Barry's harshest critic in bad games and his most reluctant to give props after good ones.

whottt continues to be Barry's biggest nvtrider in bad games and his most avid nvtswinger after good ones.

And this is what keeps balance in the universe.

timvp

03-27-2005, 05:54 PM

Whottt also hasn't stepped away and left a fellow soldier under intense fire in midbattle during Rose fights...

You left the anti-Malone tank because you got scared of Juwan Howard.

:lol

Gerryatrics

03-27-2005, 05:55 PM

I guess all we have to do is incorporate Barry into the offense, let him get into the flow and get him touches, and then he might play worth a shit. If you like the way the offense flows when the guard dumps it into Duncan and everyone else just stands around the three point line like they have courtside tickets instead of actually playing basketball, then fine. But I for one like it better when the Spurs move without the basketball, set screens and find open players, attack the basket, push the basketball, and oh yeah, Duncan goes to the hole instead of standing on the wing seeing how many times he can pumpfake the ball with a 24 second shot clock. I'm not saying Barry can only play well with Duncan out, I'm saying he's played better with Duncan out because he's been allowed to play the way that made him a star in Seattle. If Pop lets Barry loose with Duncan on the floor, I think both of them would play better, like earlier in the season.

exstatic

03-27-2005, 06:02 PM

I'm saying he's played better with Duncan out because he's been allowed to play the way that made him a star in Seattle.

Brent Barry is a career 10.4 ppg player who's greatest notoriety was winning the slam dunk contest. He has never been, nor will he ever be a "star".

whottt

03-27-2005, 06:04 PM

You left the anti-Malone tank because you got scared of Juwan Howard.

:lol

This is true...but my Malone hatred wasn't as intense to begin with as yours and bbum's etc...

I hated Howard more than Malone and was forced to choose the lesser of two evils.

whottt

03-27-2005, 06:07 PM

Brent Barry is a career 10.4 ppg player who's greatest notoriety was winning the slam dunk contest. He has never been, nor will he ever be a "star".

Brent Barry is an offensive efficiency machine whose efficiency could certainly qualify him as a star in the eyes of some...like the Seattle Fans.

This the problem Barry has had on this team...he is like a high mantinence performance vehicle that needs careful handling to perform at peak efficiency...

You guys want just want a Chevy. You want to try and win a 4x4 competition with a Fiat.

MannyIsGod

03-27-2005, 06:09 PM

Brent Barry is an offensive efficiency machine whose efficiency could certainly qualify him as a star in the eyes of some...like the Seattle Fans.

This the problem Barry has had on this team...he is like a high mantinence performance vehicle that needs careful handling to perform at peak efficiency...

You guys want just want a Chevy. You want to try and win a 4x4 competition with a Fiat.

Props to Whottt for fucking up his thread with the dumbest series of analogies ever.

whottt

03-27-2005, 06:13 PM

It's true...you guys want Barry to be Devin or Jack...these guys are not particularly efficient at anyone thing...but they are powerful all around players nontheless who just play good basketball.

That's not what Barry is and trying to make him that, perform in that role or compare him to those guys fucks him up.

He's not a defensive player, he's not a scorer, or a chucker...he's a guy that makes smart plays and passes and timely shots on offense...that's what he is...and the Spurs have been trying to use him like Jack or Devin. He keeps your offense running good and smooth and efficient..smart...and if handling the ball he avoids the sloppy crap fest and blown leads...if he gets the ball.

Is that a better analogy for you?

Gerryatrics

03-27-2005, 06:16 PM

Brent Barry is a career 10.4 ppg player who's greatest notoriety was winning the slam dunk contest. He has never been, nor will he ever be a "star".

I said star in Seattle. Some people have the ability to see beyond PPG dumbass. He was either the most popular or second most popular player in Seattle the last three years. He's a pass first guard who quietly had one of the best overall offensive games in the NBA the last couple of seasons, but because he doesn't drop 30 a night like AI or Tmac and doesn't have the endorsements and commercials people like you belittle every acomplishment he's had. Yeah, he's not a superstar or allstar, doesn't mean he can't play.

Guru of Nothing

03-27-2005, 06:18 PM

Brent Barry is a career 10.4 ppg player who's greatest notoriety was winning the slam dunk contest. He has never been, nor will he ever be a "star".

Son of a bitch!

Do I have to go back and read this long-winded thread find who labeled Brent Barry a "star?"

Brent Barry is a very good basketball player who just happens to play for the Spurs.

It's not that complicated.

MannyIsGod

03-27-2005, 06:18 PM

That wasn't an analogy :p

I think people want Barry to hit shots. It's really that simple. Personally, I love the flow of the game when he, Beno, and Manu are in because of the incredible passing. I love smart movement.

But the bottom line is that while Barry had a great overall game, the most important thing he did was hit those 3s. The comparisons to Jack come because of Jacks timely shooting. Jack would suck ass for 3 quaters, then either save a game for you, or get you back in it with his clutch shooting.

It's hard to want Barry on the floor when he's not shooting becuase of his weakness on D. But when he hits those shots, it's a no brainer.

We just want him to hit shots. The other things are gravy.

Actually, today after the game LJ and I were talking about Barry taking away minutes from Beno if Devin comes back healthy. I think he does play better when he handles the ball more, but it's hard to rearrange everything just for Barry.

whottt

03-27-2005, 06:23 PM

Barry is a guy you should be willing to rearrange it for...

He's the only guy in NBA history to lead the NBA in 2pt PCT and 3pt PCT...if Duncan and Manu are not on the court...this guy is the only player on the team that knows how to run an offense...

And he doesn't need Tim Duncan on the court to do it....

The differnce between Barry and Jack...Jack always wanted to shoot, it took a year on the bench to get him to shoot only when the Spurs wanted him to....Jack was a balla, Barry isn't it..he's more like a point guard.

Barry doesn't want to always shoot...Barry enjoys a keying a great fast break, setting another guy up for a great dunk(like he did on just about every great dunk by Devin Brown this eason) or making a great pass just as much as he does getting to shoot...

whottt

03-27-2005, 06:25 PM

PS Manny...those are some good observations about Barry and Beno.

The truth is Beno has been the best spot up shooter on the team this season, he should be the guy that camps out at the 3 and designated to shoot off of Duincan's kickouts...Devin too, they both shoot better on those kickouts from Duncan than Barry does.....the roles of Barry and Beno should be reversed. And Barry should be the one running the offense off the bench.

Nikos

03-27-2005, 06:35 PM

Brent Barry played awesome in 2001-02. Check out his efficiency numbers, ridiculous.

He basically scored with the efficiency of a Steve Kerr in 96 as a Bull, difference is he took more shots, got tons of assists, and had very few turnovers.

He probably was a Top 10 SG that one season (whatever that means). If you go by pure efficiency he was up there with pretty much any SG, except maybe the all stars, considering they used up more possesions and lead their offenses more.

But Brent Barry is capable of scoring and racking up points without taking a lot of shots. If he can do that, the passing will be even more appreciated.

xcoriate

03-27-2005, 06:43 PM

Props to Barry, I've always been on his side this season, I have questioned him, but I have always considered myself a supporter. Keep it up Brent your kicking ass.

As for Shane Heal... He would have been on the team at the deadline if you didn't waive his ass.

Heal is one of the best players from Australian basketball, second only at the stage to Gaze. If pop had given him time to acclimatise, like he has Hedo, Barry, numerous other players. If pop had kept him for a few more games Heal would have bought it.

Thats my take. The Spurs lost out on a good thing when they didn't keep it around. He was going to catch fire for you eventually just like Barry is now.

whottt

03-27-2005, 06:46 PM

Yeah I think 01-02 was the year he had a higher 2pt percentage than Shaquille O'Neal.

Another reason we should be doing everything in power(including going outside in with the bench offense) to get Barry's shot going...if he hits the playoffs hot no one is going to leave him to double Duncan even if he isn't shooting or making a ton...one less guy for Duncan to to worry about.

whottt

03-27-2005, 06:48 PM

Word Xcoriate...these guys never saw Heal against Payton in the Olympics...I didn't recognize Heal's name at first but once I was told he was that Aussie from the Olympics I wanted him over Carter all the way.

Don't forget to mention Heal is international Aussie of the Year(or whatever the thing he won is)

Useruser666

03-27-2005, 07:19 PM

We have too many heels in this forum.

ShoogarBear

03-27-2005, 07:22 PM

Hey, whottt: chip much?

whottt

03-27-2005, 07:29 PM

I'm not sure if I do or not.

wildbill2u

03-27-2005, 07:31 PM

This true...whottt also continues to be right...:smokin

Whottt also hasn't stepped away and left a fellow soldier under intense fire in midbattle during Rose fights...

Migawd, he did it! He got the Malik fight into a thread on Barry. He's so good at staying on message Whottt should be in politics :elephant

1Parker1

03-27-2005, 07:37 PM

Kori, Manny, and even 1Parker have crediblity :)

LOL. Thanks Whott...I think :)

whottt

03-27-2005, 07:45 PM

Good point WildBill...Apologizing to Malik is now worthy of it's own separate thread...

The list of the owned on the Malik Rose debate is even longer than those who were wrong about Barry.

I mean hey...if we were gonna play Marks behind Rasho we didn't have to trade Malik.

Nazr is the worst bigman on the team, Marks is much better...and to think we only gave up two number 1 picks and a proven winner to get him...

Edit: And you're welcome 1Parker...I had you on the list of the top Barry haters that needed to step forward, but you were one of the first to step forward and give props...and you deserve the compliment. PicNRoll and ducks need to take notes.

1Parker1

03-27-2005, 07:46 PM

I wonder, what will happen to Barry's minutes once Devin comes back? I really don't see Pop using Barry at point. I just hope the team (especially Barry) can continue this way once Duncan is back.

The thing to note about Barry's game today was that not only did he hit those critical three's in the 4th, he made some pretty good 2 pt shots in the begining of the game too. His defense and rebounding weren't too shabby either.

T Park

03-27-2005, 08:39 PM

gee whottt guess you werent paying attention today on ESPN Radio when a guy said that a source in the team said that Nazr Mohammed's groin is still bothering him and its still hindering him.

But lets keep hating on the guy right??

Thats "proper critique" but if you say something about Barry its "hate"

classic hypocrisy, nothing different from Coyote > Robinson.

whottt

03-27-2005, 08:42 PM

TPark, if you think the problems Nazr Mohammed has on this team are related to his groin you are fucked in the head....he fucks up.

And BTW, there is a thread for you to voice your opinion(or defend him) about Nazr VS Marks...do try and stay On T in this thread :)

T Park

03-27-2005, 08:44 PM

do try and stay On T in this thread

You officially with that statement, pass SequSpur for biggest hypocrit.

BTW, where is your apology for Rasho Nesterovic???

Guess thats also cleverly hidden.

whottt

03-27-2005, 08:50 PM

I have never trashed Rasho except to piss you off when you are trashing players undeservedly...but I do think he doesn't play up to his abilities most of the time. He floats...

Go take a look at recent threads and you will see I have always given Rasho props for his play against Yao in particular.

If you remember I even said Rasho was probably the third most talented C in the conference..but he floats.

But yes...Rasho kicked butt today and deserves huge props.

T Park

03-27-2005, 09:06 PM

I have never trashed Rasho except to piss you off

so you bring BS about Rasho, and I bring truths about Barry.

Thanks for being honest finally.

whottt

03-27-2005, 09:11 PM

I don't think Rasho is soft as everyone else does...because I have seen him give some hardass fouls and when challenged one on one by skileld guards like Kobe I usually see Rasho get the better end of that deal...

But don't even try and say Rasho plays hard every game...I am not judging him by his facial expressions either...

And what truths did you bring about Barry...you were among the ones calling him a choker too...

You are like Chump...you love Chokers...you were on Hedo's jock all of last season.

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 09:12 PM

But don't even try and say Rasho plays hard every game.I don't pretend Barry is effective every game.

T Park

03-27-2005, 09:15 PM

exactly.

What truths??

Hes stunk in the past couple games before Indiana.

That simple.

Thats all Ive said, Ive also said he needs to be more agressive in shooting the ball, and finally he did against Atlanta, and again against Houston.

Todays game in the 4th with his shooting was identical against the Suns.

THATS FANTASTIC HES EARNING HIS MONEY!!

But he needs to be that agressive in EVERY 4th quarter.

whottt

03-27-2005, 09:21 PM

Several meaning two?

If you think Barry is missing too many threes when he is hitting them at a 60% clip, you have very high standards indeed.

You make TimVP look like Barry's biggest fan.

T Park

03-27-2005, 09:22 PM

inagra, he didn't miss many shots today.

He was 6-11/

If he brings that in the playoffs, just put the goddamn trophy in SA already.

DuncanMVP

03-27-2005, 09:23 PM

WHO CARES what Barry does now, he doesn't do shit when Duncan is on the floor like Rasho

untill Barry plays well with Duncan stop ryding his nuts

T Park

03-27-2005, 09:25 PM

^^ I see that the preschool has been let out.

whottt

03-27-2005, 09:27 PM

TPark...well said.

MannyIsGod

03-27-2005, 09:28 PM

Man, if I was in the NBA, I'd be pissed if Tpark was my fan.

DuncanMVP

03-27-2005, 09:28 PM

^^ I see that the preschool has been let out.

"rashos my boy"

*realizes T Park has no credibility in anything he says*

whottt

03-27-2005, 09:29 PM

Actually I thought that last take by TPark was a good one.

DuncanMVP

03-27-2005, 09:29 PM

Barry hasn't done shit all year now you dumbasses are jacking off to Barry over a couple good games

whottt

03-27-2005, 09:30 PM

Yes another idiot with selective memory.

DuncanMVP

03-27-2005, 09:33 PM

Yes another idiot with selective memory.

*remembers latest Barry choke job against the Suns*

don't argue when you know nothing, you idiots seem to forgot then ENTIRE season up untill this past week :lol :lol

whottt

03-27-2005, 09:35 PM

Damn...you suck. You got the record for being the quickest to go on my ignore list.

Nothing you say is true and even worse you don't realize you are stupid.

Poof you are gone.

I suggest bringing better takes at this board.

DuncanMVP

03-27-2005, 09:40 PM

T Park

03-27-2005, 09:42 PM

Man, if I was in the NBA, I'd be pissed if Tpark was my fan.

feelings mutual howard dean.

Once again,

it made my day when Barry got that kick out 8 feet behind the line jacking it up.

Dude, you have an awesome shot, we know you have it, SHOOT IT.

So what if you miss, dont get fuckin tentative.

PS, that defense, hands in the lane, Pop i garuntee LOVED that.

I garuntee everytime Barry came back to the huddle pop wanted to hug him and say THANK YOU thats ALL I WANTED!!!

Bowen, Ginobili, Parker, Nesterovic, Barry won this game today.

I hope to see Barry's agressiveness against Seattle wednesday again.

Shoot the damn ball brent.

Give me 6-11 for the rest of the year, and the jersey I own will fuckin get framed.

Barry reminded me of Stephen Jackson quite a bit today, it was fantastic.

I especially loved after he got HAMMERED on defense by Mutombo (thanks Monty Mcutchen you assclown) he came right back and bagged a shot went to the bench lookin pissed.

HELL YEAH!!!!

BTW, Rasho and Ginobili's steals on Yao Ming were fucking classic.

T Park

03-27-2005, 09:42 PM

You makes threads about Marks being as good as Nazr

Well, today he was.

picnroll

03-27-2005, 09:46 PM

PicNRoll continues his slide from elite to scrub poster,
Will bagging on Malik for a few post do it? :smokin

IcemanCometh

03-27-2005, 10:21 PM

hey barry, go fuck yourself

Tek_XX

03-27-2005, 11:18 PM

Why should anyone apoligize for critiquing Mr. Barry for his past crappy play. Dude deserves props for good game

DuncanMVP

03-27-2005, 11:21 PM

Why should anyone apoligize for critiquing Mr. Barry for his past crappy play. Dude deserves props for good game

that's why this thread is a joke, Barry hasn't done shit till this past week

Spurminator

03-27-2005, 11:23 PM

I've always thought those who were ready to trade Barry before the deadline were jumping the gun a bit, but you'd have to suffer from blindness or low expectations to have been satisfied with Barry's play until the last few games.

I think Barry can be a very good asset to this team for the next few years. For now, I'm anxious to see whether he can maintain a high levl of play (a) in the Playoffs, and (b) with Duncan on the floor.

Solid D

03-27-2005, 11:26 PM

Based on Brent's performance the last 3 games....

I accept Brent's apology. :smokin

ChumpDumper

03-27-2005, 11:26 PM

whottt

03-27-2005, 11:28 PM

The apology is expected from those who said it was the pressure that was causing it and questioned his heart...not those who said his play was substandard. I don't think anyone was arguing that he wasn't playing up to expectations(although some were arguing that he wasn't playing as badly as many claimed and still helped the team even if his shot wasn't falling)...RIF.

T Park

03-27-2005, 11:33 PM

ggoose25

03-28-2005, 01:00 AM

props to barry! his problem has never been his heart or that he folds under pressure. It has always been his head. He is his own worst enemy and I'm glad he finally got over whatever mental block he had that was keeping his confidence down.

toosmallshoes

03-28-2005, 03:02 AM

the question is "what will barry do once Brown comes back"? Brown does some things that barry can't do. In general though, I'm a firm believer that the game that Barry has brought in the last three games (which is what we want from him and why we signed him) is more important than what Devin brings. Devin is an athletic scorer and an average defender. Barry is a complete offensive player and a below average defender. If he can just learn to get a hand up and suck his player into the twin tower trap he'll be okay. Devin should be brought in as he has in the past... when the spurs desperately need a basket and nobody is willing to shoot. Brown is never afraid to shoot.
The main question: Barry is doing well now while Duncan and Brown are out. When they come back can he maintain this level of confidence?

toosmallshoes

03-28-2005, 03:09 AM

but overall Manny is right. We want him to make three's more than anything and most fans will only like the rest of his game if he is drilling shots from outside consistently.

smeagol

03-28-2005, 08:40 AM

that's why this thread is a joke, Barry hasn't done shit till this past week
If you think Barry hasn't done shit, then the joke is on you.

GoSpurs21

03-28-2005, 12:11 PM

If Barry can continue to play at this pace for 2 more games then I will admit he is not useless.

baseline bum

03-29-2005, 02:52 AM

I need to bump this thread just to say Brent Barry was a fucking stud yesterday. He shot every time without any concern, and he made things easy for everyone on the team. I loved that he stayed in the same attack mode even after Cookie Monster swatted that layup into the crowd. This kind of play is exactly what made me a Barry fan in Seattle. He and Manu just trashed the Rockets.

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 02:55 AM

Barry has hit 10-of-15 3's in the last three games. That's just awesome considering how horrendous he had been earlier. Didn't he have a 3-for-35 stretch or something?

milkyway21

03-29-2005, 03:05 AM

i was one of the fans who rally for MORE MINUTES FOR BARRY... though it's kind of late in the season but he didn't disappoint me in the last 3 games Duncan was out w/ injury. Better Late than NEVER :lol

thanks for bringing this thread up front again, Kori. how i wish I could still see that thread where the fans bashed Barry's first few games back then:lol. i found some of the posts in there so hilarious....

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 03:10 AM

I bashed Barry a lot. I'm still not sure how he'll play when Duncan and Devin are back. But he's doing very well right now.

milkyway21

03-29-2005, 03:33 AM

Barry deserved the bashings until the last few games...my he even had 0 pt last week. Maybe he improved that lot bec. of those.

I only prayed for shots to fall, when can i see the old Barry, and it starts to happen. I just don't know for how long... :angel

Uncle Donnie

03-29-2005, 09:32 AM

bigzak25

03-29-2005, 10:18 AM

it's all about the playoffs, but barry's recent performances are encouraging, no doubt...

i never bashed him, but i admit, i had lost alot of faith in the man's shot...and i too, still wonder if he has the nuts to hit like that under playoff pressure...

we shall see. whatever your doing brent, keep doin it.

Que Gee

03-29-2005, 11:45 AM

Like I said before, Barry plays better when he gets more minutes and more shots. It has nothing to do with him starting, despite what has been suggested in here.

When Devin comes back, if the minute splits go back to what they were you will probably see Barry's play take a turn for the worse.

It HAD a lot to do with whether he was starting or not, because previous, the ONLY time he got the minutes, was when he was starting.

Que Gee

03-29-2005, 11:46 AM

I bashed Barry a lot. I'm still not sure how he'll play when Duncan and Devin are back. But he's doing very well right now.

He actually play great with Devin...Devin has been the receipient of MANY Barry outlet passes, and work very well with B. The issue with Tim is how they run the offense around TD. I still wonder how its going to affect BB. I AM NOT SAYING to change the offense for Barry...But its quit obvious the way they are playing now, is what suites his style of play.

kskonn

03-29-2005, 12:32 PM

He actually play great with Devin...Devin has been the receipient of MANY Barry outlet passes, and work very well with B. The issue with Tim is how they run the offense around TD. I still wonder how its going to affect BB. I AM NOT SAYING to change the offense for Barry...But its quit obvious the way they are playing now, is what suites his style of play.

I agree he playes very well with Devin on the court. I think the concern is will his confidence stay as high as it is now if pop starts yanking him to bring in Devin. will he be afraid to shoot the ball if he knows that Pop might yank him to bring Devin in if he misses.

boutons

03-29-2005, 02:26 PM

"I AM NOT SAYING to change the offense for Barry"

no worries there. When Tim sat out some games last year, the Spurs ran an up-tempo, balanced game with great success, even after Tim came back, 17 straight wins. Then Pop went to 4-down vs LAL series games 3-6 with horrendous results.

I don't Pop will ever really really see Tim as "just another option", Tim will always be the first option, even if our backcourt is hitting 80% from 3's. :)

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 03:18 PM

He actually play great with Devin...Devin has been the receipient of MANY Barry outlet passes, and work very well with B.

I mentioned Devin because Brent will play less minutes when Devin's back, not for any other reason. I know they play well together, those two together comprise part of my favorite Spurs lineup.

mookie2001

03-29-2005, 03:28 PM

yeah brent can hoop
he had a larcenous heart vs houston
he knows devin well
it does seem that devin plays well with all the spurs
devins a put me in cold cold i'm ready to play today guy
he's also a texas boy, he looks good, he feels good, he stays right between sbc and hillwood guy
well good except his back
devin and brent will be vital to the 05 title

whottt

03-29-2005, 03:32 PM

Barry deserved the bashings until the last few games...my he even had 0 pt last week. Maybe he improved that lot bec. of those.

People saying he didn't do anything all season was false...he shot 50% from 3 for the entire month of Janurary...he's hit some big shots for us..some clutch FT's, played well a an emergency starter, played well in our biggest comebacks of the season and one of our biggest wins, and he was part of the reason for our hot start, the best in team history.

He has gotten lost at stetches and lacked agressiveness, and his shooting his low by his own standards, but he hasn't been near as bad as some claimed...

and it wasn't because he choking or whatever...

And the reason I think it was so easy for many fans to have a major hate on for him is that in a competition with Devin Brown, Brown has home town advantage...not to mention athleticism and quickness...it really shouldn't be Barry VS Devin...

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 03:34 PM

And the reason I think it was so easy for many fans to have a major hate on for him is that in a competition with Devin Brown

No, the reason it was easy for some people to hate on him is that he had a stretch where he shot 3-for-30 from the three (or something like that).

whottt

03-29-2005, 03:36 PM

Steve Kerr went through a stretch like that in 03(2-27 I think)...no one even noticed it back then because all the other guards were injured and he was still hitting shots that mattered...

Uncle Donnie

03-29-2005, 03:36 PM

It HAD a lot to do with whether he was starting or not, because previous, the ONLY time he got the minutes, was when he was starting.

My point was that he doesn't need to start to play well, he just needs the minutes. Some were advocating bringing Manu off the bench and starting Barry because he needed more time with Duncan on the floor and he needed to start to boost his confidence (in other words, Hedo redux). The truth is, he just needs the minutes.

And I agree he plays well with Devin. All I'm saying is that if the minutes get split between them again when Devin comes back, Barry's play will more than likely suffer.

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 03:41 PM

It's funny. A lot of people who were giving excuses why Barry wasn't playing well earlier were saying it was because he needed more playing time with Duncan on the floor. Now this week, I've seen many posts saying that Barry just needed less playing time with Duncan on the floor (because the offense is more stagnant with Duncan in). Now people have decided that he just needed more minutes.

So when Duncan comes back and Barry gets some minutes with Duncan and some minutes without Duncan, and his playing time is reduced when Devin returns, will he still be able to perform? In other words, what I'm asking is ... Do you think he'll be able to carry over the type of play that he's playing now?

mookie2001

03-29-2005, 03:43 PM

yeah he has to get some kind of spark when the playoffs start, knowing he actually can go deep and contribute, be seen as the missing link they needed last year

whottt

03-29-2005, 03:53 PM

Probably not...and we'll be going with Pop's boys in the playoffs...a rookie who had no expectation on him, and has been able to play out of the spotlight all season, and an NBDL player who has played shaky in the crunch of big games, whose big games never seem to translate to wins, and who is often as disruptive to our overall team play as he is to our opponents...and who has choked in at least one game this season.

It's not just Barry that has struggled with this rotation this season either....Devin has struggled too...the difference is that Devin has been with the team in part of 3 different seasons, has known Pop since a child, and has a skill set more suited to Pop's mindset of basketball....

I don't think it's all the minutes...I think it's Pop having quick hook with these guys and doing things like...giving one of them 2 minutes of PT in a loss has screwed them up...that's not a case of not coddling them...that's a case of anti coddling. 2-5 minutes of PT says you suck.

At the beginning of the season Devin and Barry(as well as Malik and Horry) were all playing well with basically equal minutes. But the depth of talent gives Pop more outlets for his temper...and these guys are human...for all we know Duncan could be effected the same way confidence wise if it happened to him.

tlongII

03-29-2005, 03:54 PM

Brent Barry is a punk! He signed with the Spurs even though we offered him more money.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 04:00 PM

Looks like Whottt wants to bet that Brent plays less than 10mpg in the playoffs....

Uncle Donnie

03-29-2005, 04:14 PM

In other words, what I'm asking is ... Do you think he'll be able to carry over the type of play that he's playing now?

Like I said, probably not. Pop needs to pick Devin or Barry. Play one and sit the other except for spot minutes. We are better off with one of them playing well than both of them playing decent or poor.

At this point I'd advocate sticking with Brent even when Devin comes back because of the injury and because Barry makes the offense run more smoothly, which we need more than Brown's defense.

But Pop hasn't shown a willingness to stick with one guy so things will probably go back to the way they were once Devin returns.

whottt

03-29-2005, 04:22 PM

Looks like Whottt wants to bet that Brent plays less than 10mpg in the playoffs....

Looks like Chump wants to suck the intelligence out of an argument yet again by obstinately focusing on a stupid tangent that only has relevance in the world of the Popsac.

Through the fog of dimness...do you remember me saying it wasn't about minutes at that time? I think you do. Wait no...you probably don't remember it...I have to remember who I am arguing with.

Did playing Barry more than 10 mins per game solve the problem? No it didn't. And it didn't even keep you from bitching about Barry.

I am not gonna make a another stupid bet with you where make about as conservative an estimate as you can and get propped by TimVP as if you are a genius. I do not try and guess what Pop will do...and I was stupid to make a bet based on what he will do...but it was a bet that I argued the relevance of from the beginning.

Que Gee

03-29-2005, 04:25 PM

So when Duncan comes back and Barry gets some minutes with Duncan and some minutes without Duncan, and his playing time is reduced when Devin returns, will he still be able to perform? In other words, what I'm asking is ... Do you think he'll be able to carry over the type of play that he's playing now?

Personally, I don't think so. He has shown since the beginning of the season that when he plays 25 to 35 minutes a game...He plays well. He plays right around his career avg in points, assists, and shooting %...(not counting 3pt%) although thats starting to climb again. He needs the minutes, he needs to have the ball...You get Tony, Tim, Manu all back...he starts not seeing the ball much...misses a couple shots, Devin comes back...And we are back to square one.

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 04:28 PM

Like I said, probably not. Pop needs to pick Devin or Barry. Play one and sit the other except for spot minutes. We are better off with one of them playing well than both of them playing decent or poor.

At this point I'd advocate sticking with Brent even when Devin comes back because of the injury and because Barry makes the offense run more smoothly, which we need more than Brown's defense.

But Pop hasn't shown a willingness to stick with one guy so things will probably go back to the way they were once Devin returns.

I think Pop has to pick one or the other, too.

I think he'll pick Barry and just lets Devin play spot minutes. Ludden's latest article said that Devin's back hasn't shown any signs of improvement. So Devin in only spot minutes when he returns might be a good thing. Plus Devin can probably still contribute in limited minutes.

whottt

03-29-2005, 04:40 PM

Give Barry all the minutes you want but if he's just standing out there waiting for Duncan kickouts and getting yanked for Devin or Beno when he doesn't hit them, he is going to suck IMO....it's a problem....but how can having a guy that doesn't need Duncan to play well truly be a problem? It should be a strength. But the Spurs aren't used to having that much talent...and don't really know how to use it.

IF we are going to go to 4 down offense in the playoffs with Duncan kickouts...Beno and Devin both do that better than Barry(but I am not sure they do it well enough to win an NBA title). If that is really all we are going to do...then I think our struggles will look like those we usually have when our season ends...then again we don't have the Lakers to worry about this year....

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 05:04 PM

Hey, don't whine about taking a sucker bet. No one held a gun to your head.

If Barry can't convert wide open shots from Duncan kickouts, signing him was a huge mistake.

whottt

03-29-2005, 05:16 PM

I'm not...I'm whining about possibly not winning a title due to predictable offense and stubborness.

Everyone thinks all Barry wants is minutes...but it's not that simple.

Everyone is resistant to going towards a more guard oriented offense in the playoffs..one that will allow Barry(and I think Manu and Parker as well) to fit the team better...to put less pressure on Duncan...and one that IMO, will make our team that much tougher.

If you guys just want players to hit threes off Duncan kickouts...then Devin and Brown should be the guys doing it because Barry doesn't do that well...for what ever reason...he thinks too much...timing...he just doesn't do it well.

Me personally? I don't even think Duncan liked that type of offense...I think he likes to do it some...but why did he want Jason Kidd if he liked 4 down so much?

And everyone acts like that's the only way Duncan can play well and some infallible offense...I think it's a predictable offense that is easily disrupted by a smart coach and team. And I think having more scoring threats will make Duncan more effective.

Duncan plays as well in an uptempo offense as any bigman in the NBA...Duncan never has problems adjusting his game to his teamates strenghts...he's a great player...

4 down is an archaic and predictable offense that was useful on teams with limited talent in the backcourt...

We got freaking Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker. Brent Barry, those 3 alone make this the best guard rotation in Spurs history...throw in Beno and Devin...it's just a sick rotation.

But what are we going to do? Put the ball where all our opponents know it will be...and have those guys stand around shooting threes...on the posessions Duncan doesn't turn it over due to the triple team.

Que Gee

03-29-2005, 05:20 PM

Hey, don't whine about taking a sucker bet. No one held a gun to your head.

If Barry can't convert wide open shots from Duncan kickouts, signing him was a huge mistake.

I wish this was possible, but I've seen every single game this year. I would LOVE to go back and count how many times Duncan has kicked the ball out to Barry for a 3. I would be willing to bet it has been no more than 10 times ALL YEAR!

whottt

03-29-2005, 05:20 PM

If Barry can't convert wide open shots from Duncan kickouts, signing him was a huge mistake.

It was a huge mistake and I don't think anyone expected it to work out this way.

But that doesn't mean it has to be a failure...

But what's an even bigger mistake is refusing to try and utilize the talents Barry does have that mesh well with Parker and Manu, talents that if utilized, make Duncan's life easier, make things tougher on our opponents, and make us a better team(got us off to the best start in history)..and probably make 4 down an even more effective option.

But keep clinging to the choke.

whottt

03-29-2005, 05:23 PM

I wish this was possible, but I've seen every single game this year. I would LOVE to go back and count how many times Duncan has kicked the ball out to Barry for a 3. I would be willing to bet it has been no more than 10 times ALL YEAR!

It doesn't have to be Duncan kicking it out...it's that post offense where Duncan sucks the clock for 15 seconds of it while the other guys stand around at the top of the key and watch.....I think Pop calls it "polished".

Even if Duncan is not kicking it out to Barry he is still standing around there with the rest of them and getting the ball from someone else who has been standing around.

I call it the "turn it over, kill all offensive momentum, blow a double digit 4th quarter lead, break Duncan's back, and usually choke" offense.

I think the only guys that truly shoot better 3's that way are guys that aren't truly 3 point shooters...real shooters seem to struggle with it...

EG...since Duncan went out,(and we stoped using Horry and Mass as Duncan) whose 3 point shooting PCT has been going up?...and whose has been going down?

Que Gee

03-29-2005, 05:26 PM

It doesn't have to be Duncan kicking it out...it's that post offense where Duncan sucks the clock for 15 seconds of it while the other guys stand around at the top of the key and watch.....I think Pop calls it "polished".

I call it the "turn it over, kill all offensive momentum, blow a double digit 4th quarter lead, break Duncan's back, and usually choke" offense.

I totally agree with you...I was just making an observation.

kskonn

03-29-2005, 05:32 PM

Brent Barry is a punk! He signed with the Spurs even though we offered him more money.

He wanted to play for a winner. In hinesight it was a good decision. Even with eveything he has gone through.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 07:22 PM

You guys act like four down is the only play this team has ever run. Simply not true. At the same time you act like it's a bad idea to give the ball to the best post player in the league where he is most effective and most likely to get a wide open shot for anyone man enough to knock it down. I have always agreed that the Spurs should mix it up, but everyone that thinks four down is anathema to winning a championship is fooling themselves.

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 07:25 PM

The Spurs don't run 4-down much this season. It's mixed in with a variety of other plays that are called. Spurs fans think every time Duncan touches the ball on the block it's because 4-down was called. Sometimes they call it, sometimes it ends up there on broken plays. But a lot of the plays are for something other than 4 -down. It was that way last season too. There's a lot more picnroll, motion plays, and a variety of other things.

But Chump is right, 4-down is a necessary play call to win a title.

whottt

03-29-2005, 07:30 PM

It is usually the main offense we run in the 4th quarter of playoff games. You know, those quarters that we are infamous for blowing leads in in the playoffs.

And it's a bad idea to give the ball to the best post player in the league, when the other team knows that play frontwards and backwards, when they know it is coming, and when he is being triple teamed and has a propensity for putting on the floor and turning it over.

Guards handle the ball...it's their job. We have great guards...let them handle it.

And I am not saying we should eliminate it from the play book...it becomes a better option when it isn't the predictable option and when other guys are threats...

We don't have journeymen playing the guard spots anymore...we have some of the most talented guards in the NBA.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 07:36 PM

You know, those quarters that we are infamous for blowing leads in in the playoffs. And the ones we win championships in. Go figure.

I will say that one of the major problems with four down is Tim's holding the ball and waiting to see what the defense might do when he puts the ball on the floor. I believe if he goes into his moves almost immediately the effect would be quite profound.

whottt

03-29-2005, 07:38 PM

The Spurs don't run 4-down much this season. It's mixed in with a variety of other plays that are called. Spurs fans think every time Duncan touches the ball on the block it's because 4-down was called.

I use the term 4 down generously...the point I am making is actcually much more controversial and earth shattering...I am saying we are too much of an inside out team...

You notice that 3 game losing streak occurred when were still mainly running inside out plays through Massenburg and Horry...

A bigman didn't initiate the offense one single time in our 4th quarter asswhipping of Houston.

Sometimes they call it, sometimes it ends up there on broken plays. But a lot of the plays are for something other than 4 -down. It was that way last season too. There's a lot more picnroll, motion plays, and a variety of other things.

But Chump is right, 4-down is a necessary play call to win a title.

IF you guys think that's what we have to do to win then it was stupid to sign Parker, and Manu....we should have waited and signed Ray Allen...in fact right now we should trade them for Ray Allen. He fits that offense better...and if that is going to be our backbone offense we wasted money on our current group of guards.

I wonder how much Manu and Tony really love that conservative halfcourt offense....I don't even think Duncan likes it that much or he wouldn't have wanted Jason Kidd.

I sense our team is set in it's ways and doesn't fully realize or understand how to utlilize all the talent that is on it.

whottt

03-29-2005, 07:41 PM

And the ones we win championships in. Go figure.

What's sickening is that you think we have won titles because of that offense...We won because of our D and we overcame that offense...

I will say that one of the major problems with four down is Tim's holding the ball and waiting to see what the defense might do when he puts the ball on the floor. I believe if he goes into his moves almost immediately the effect would be quite profound.

And I'll agree with you on that point.

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 07:41 PM

Whottt, it has to be a mixture. I'm not saying to just run 4-down.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 07:47 PM

What's sickening is that you think we have won titles because of that offense.LMAO. Yeah, Duncan sucks. He never scored once on the low post and no one ever got an open look from the arc on a kickout.

Waive Duncan. Just get a guy who can trail on the break and stay out of our guards' way.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 07:49 PM

Too bad Parker can't finish a game and Manu can't finish practices at this point in the season. Otherwise I might agree with waiving Duncan.

whottt

03-29-2005, 07:50 PM

And the beauty of it is Kori..we can do both...and it's debatable which one we can do better...even with Tim Duncan. That's an embarassment of riches...it shouldn't be a problem, but it seems that it is. The mindset seems to be that in crunch time it's Duncan or nothing...

That plays to the strengths of the Rockets and Pistons...and the Heat...not their weaknesses.

We got Manu freaking Ginobili...and putting the ball in his hands is just as good as putting it in Duncan...because it's a hell of a lot harder to doubleteam a guard than it is a bigman...I know Manu can turn it over at times...but so can Duncan.

Kori Ellis

03-29-2005, 07:51 PM

The mindset seems to be that in crunch time it's Duncan or nothing...

Why do you say that? This season the Spurs seem to go to Manu as much (if not more than) Duncan in fourth quarters.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 07:52 PM

we can do both.that's been said.

whottt

03-29-2005, 07:53 PM

Too bad Parker can't finish a game and Manu can't finish practices at this point in the season. Otherwise I might agree with waiving Duncan.

The sad thing is that Manu, Parker, Barry, even Devin and Beno...all have games that are much more compatible with each other than with an inside out offense...there is an assumption that Duncan can't still be Duncan unless we are running 4 down or a similar type offense...

I am not the one underestimating Duncan...I have yet to see a style that Duncan can't be effective and our best games the past 2 years have been games where Duncan didn't score a humoungous amount of points...

whottt

03-29-2005, 07:57 PM

Why do you say that? This season the Spurs seem to go to Manu as much (if not more than) Duncan in fourth quarters.

Sometimes...and sometims they don't, they haven't really been consistent with it...most of our losees have been games where we forgot about Manu and all of our guards.

Watch the 4th quarter and invariably our guards will get break opportunities and slow it down waiting to run the set offense(of which the majority of plays are still run for Duncan)...

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 07:58 PM

The sad thing is that Manu, Parker, Barry, even Devin and Beno...all have games that are much more compatible with each other than with an inside out offense.Immaterial if the top two of those can't finish games or practices. And Devin and Beno play either quite well.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 08:00 PM

Watch the 4th quarter and invariably our guards will get break opportunities and slow it down waiting to run the set offenseThat's their fault. They're supposed to run if they have the opportunity (and Parker always does -- again, it's a shame he's nowhere to be found in the fourth). This is Pop, not JVG.

whottt

03-29-2005, 08:00 PM

Bottom line is that Barry is effective when our guards are running the show and the tempo is up and he doesn't seem to be as effective standing around waiting for kickouts...he definitely plays better in the motion offense.

So I guess my point is that...if you want guys to stand around and bang threes when Duncan gets them open...for this season at least...we should go with Devin and Beno in that role...but if we are going to be trying an uptempo game then I think Barry is a much better option...in fact he might even serve us the best as being the main ballhandler at those times.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 08:01 PM

I say do both.

whottt

03-29-2005, 08:01 PM

That's their fault. They're supposed to run if they have the opportunity (and Parker always does -- again, it's a shame he's nowhere to be found in the fourth). This is Pop, not JVG.

That's horseshit Chump...Parker has a permanent crick in neck from looking over his shoulder at what Pop wants him to do...

Even Barry looks over his shoulder some(and I don't mean when we are trying to burn the shotclock)...don't even try and tell me that's what Barry's instincts are.

The only guy that doesn't seem to give a fuck what Pop wants is Manu...and that's becaus ehe knows he can get away with it.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 08:05 PM

Parker has a permanent crick in neck from looking over his shoulder at what Pop wants him to do...That's horeshit Whottt. How can he look back when he's leading the break all the time? Oh yeah, he's often so gassed at the end of games he can't really run it as much and defenses get back on him. Half of the Spurs' attack is predicated on his speed alone. When it's gone, what do you really have?

Manu and Duncan.

whottt

03-29-2005, 08:18 PM

He can look back at the times he's' not leading the break.

I don't know what you are arguing here...Pop tends to go with conservative offense more against the better team in the NBA...You look at our matchups with Detroit...Houston...Miami...even Indiana...and those were conservatively played games on offense...when Duncan got injured Pop tried getting more conservative...

Pop should be doing just the opposite(and I give him credit for FINALLY doing this against Houston)...you don't want to get conservative against Houston, Detroit, Indiana, Miami....those are the teams you want to push because they can't match our speed or our talent at the guard spots, and it wears down their bigs.....what they can do is defend our interior game better than any teams in the NBA and match or even surpass our effectiveness in a half court offense.

The worm has turned and wrong is now right...I know this(wanting to be more uptempo) goes against the tenets of playoff basketball...

but I think it's entirely possible that the NBA has never seen a team that combines both the defensive prowess and transition and passing abilities of the Spurs...in one team. I don't think there's ever been a team has had the capabilities in both those facets of the game that the Spurs now do.

I want Pop to view and utilize our small ball abilities, our transitional abilities etc...as more than just experiments...and I don't think he does.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2005, 08:43 PM

The key to the transition game is getting defensive rebounds and steals. That was completely happening against the Rockets. It's not like Pop is telling the Spurs to hold up on 2-1 or better breaks. Hell, Parker often goes in 1-3 without looking back.

whottt

03-29-2005, 09:09 PM

Sometimes Pop does hold Tony back...when we have a big lead he often does that...

Other than the obvious(rebounding), I'll agree that one of the keys to the transition is steals...something Pop discourages(and it makes sense for him to do so at some points)...

But it's also those "risky" passes that got Barry yanked from a game about a month ago...and that Manu is infamous for...

And I am not just talking about transition either...I am talking about guard oriented offense...just so we are clear on this...I mean not initiating the offense by tossing it into Mass or Horry...like we did a lot in the Detroit Game(when Detroit ate our lunch)...like we did for most of this past Houston game(and for most of the previous ones)...

I know we don't really embrace it because if we did we wouldn't be trying to figure out if we can use Barry on this team or not..unglodly awful 350% 3pt shooting PCT or not. .