Does TMac have Bowen's number?

[whottt]

Every great athlete has someone that owns them for some reason...

Nolan Ryan would murder guys like Barry Bonds, Griffey and Thomas but he coudn't get Craig Grebek out to save his life

Barry Bonds was asked who the toughest guy for him to face was and he named some journeymen reliver that never got another guy out in his entire life...

The Spurs as a team have always had scrub role players from other teams go off on them...

Everyone has someone that has their number...it doesn't even have to be a star...but when it is a star...you've got problems.

To date in his Spurs career...no one has ever owned Bruce Bowen...but I think it's time we start to realize that TMac has Bruce's number...it's not that Bowen doesn't play hard against him, it's not that he plays him differently...it's just for whatever reason anything TMac throws up against Bowen goes in...whether it's in the final 13 second of the game or at any other point.

Maybe it's because TMac is so big...maybe it's because TMac gets up to play against Bowen so he can show the world he's better than Kobe against the NBA's premier perimeter defender...but what cannot be denied is TMac V Bowen is not a match up that works in the Spurs favor.

I thought at first maybe it was Bowen's age catching up to him...but he was active today...he did every thing in his power to slow TMac down and Tmac ate his lunch.

I say this not because of a dislike of Bowen, in truth he is one of my favorite players on this team, and one of my all time Spurs, and his toughness is so important to the Spurs success...

I say it's because it's the truth...Manu does a much better job against TMac than Bowen. And hopefully Manu will get the call against TMac in the future...while Bowen can disrupt Sura or another key perimeter player for the Rockets.

[MannyIsGod]

Manu was awesome on Tmac in the fourth, but yes, Tmac killed Bowen the rest of the game. I have no clue as to why that is, but if Manu can stop him then we need to go with what works.

[Nikos]

Then why have Bowen on the floor if your not going to use him against the best offensive option? I could see if Houston had another stud swingman, but if your not gonna play him against the best, then the team is better off putting Barry and or Brown in anyway.

[Supergirl]

Manu was definitely better defending TMac today. In a 7 game series, though, Bowen will still wear TMac down.

What's really impressive, and underrated - Parker's D on Sura today. He pretty much shut him down, and it wasn't till Parker sat that he scored.

[whottt]

I don't really agree with that Nikos...Bruce's offense has improved this year to the degree that there are times when he is the only guy capable of making a three or even hitting a shot. And the Rockets have more than 1 dangerous perimeter guy.

I used to feel the way that you do, that Bowen would be better off the bench due to him needing legs to play his great D......but due to his offensive improvement I don't mind him starting just based on his offense, which is greatly improved, even if he is having a an off game...he's outscored Kobe in a game this season...Bruce is even a clutch FT shooter now.

Just for what ever reason Bruce is mortal against TMac. And this one match up Manu seems to be able to handle better.

[whottt]

Manu was definitely better defending TMac today. In a 7 game series, though, Bowen will still wear TMac down.

What's really impressive, and underrated - Parker's D on Sura today. He pretty much shut him down, and it wasn't till Parker sat that he scored.


Yeah he did a great job on Sura. Then again...he didn't have to do much in the first half with the way TMac was dominating.

[Spurs Biggest Fan]

Manu was awesome on Tmac in the fourth, but yes, Tmac killed Bowen the rest of the game. I have no clue as to why that is, but if Manu can stop him then we need to go with what works.


Devin does a darn good job on T-Mac too -- but yea there are few guys that for some reason or other, Bowen can't seem to stop them... but the majority of them are owned by Bowen :) --

Isn't Peja one of those that is great vs other SF but when he plays vs Bowen he does very poorly ...

But for some reason T-Mac does seem to play well vs Bowen. Thank goodness for Manu :) -- and hopefully Devin will be back in good form if in fact we face the Rockets in the playoffs.

[whottt]

It may not be a permanent thing...maybe it's just this year...I don't really think anyone totally owns Bruce...but Tmac is lucky against him this season if nothing else.

[Nikos]

Bowen is horrible on offense in general. Yes he hits the open three, but that only seems more glaring because Parker is not a good spot up shooter from long range. And Rasho tends to be missing a lot of open shots, and making the more difficult contested one on one attempts. And with Manu best being used as a drive and dish guy -- who is going to hit the three? Especially if Barry is not in a groove?

I can remember about 4-5 passes Manu made today that he should have easily gotten an assist atleast on 3-4 of them and did not. This was due to lack of confidence of Spur shooters, especially with Horry and even Marks.

It seems the Spurs are not making the simple shots with regularity, at least not most of the perimeter shooters. Horry was strangely making step back contested shots better than when the guards set him up.

As for Bowen, he simply is not a good offensive option in general. Without Duncan it becomes a bit more glaring. There were about 3-4 passes I remember Manu getting to him in the last two games where he couldn't finish, and those were plays about 90% of the swingmen on the league could have capitlized on.

Yes he has improved offense, and is a very valuable player provided his shot is dropping. But on average, I do not want Bowen taking a lot of shots, or trying to create his shot. He can do it a few times here and there, but again its not something I want to see him try often.

As long as he hits the three and does not attempt shots he is incapable of making, he can be valuable considering his defense. But if defense not a primary issue for a 4th quarter or certain instances of a game, I DO NOT want Bowen in there. I much rather have Barry or Devin in that case.

Bowen has improved his offensive repetoire, but his BEST basketball came in 0203 when he hit the three AND defended well (aka Lakers series where his Game 2 was about as perfect as you can ask for).

[T Park]

loose the hate on Bowen.

He helped win that damn game tonight.

Where were you when he was bagging clutch ass threes in the 4th quarter.

[whottt]

Nikos, I still say his offense is good enough to get court time even if not on TMac...Bruce does a lot of stuff that helps...and if you look...he's the second best 3 shooter on the team...as far as the guys that take a lot of threes...out of Brent, Manu and Bowen and that is integral to our offense...And there have been a lot of games where Bowen has ended scoring draoghts with his floater...

Plus, the next time we meet the Rockets will be in the playoffs and Bruce is more experienced in the playoffs than any guy on our team besides Duncan(and Horry).

TPark...due to your failure to name names on who you were talking to...I can't tell if your comments were a justified response or your usual over-reaction.

[Nikos]

loose the hate on Bowen.

He helped win that damn game tonight.

Where were you when he was bagging clutch ass threes in the 4th quarter.

I don't hate him. I am just saying from whott's perspective, if you do not need his defense, he is not worth getting court time. He is not a good offensive player in general. His value for this team is soley from defense and hitting the open three.

[exstatic]

??? The ABC crew said that before today, TMac's shooting % against SA, for his career, was 37%. Not exactly "ownership".

[whottt]

Bowen has been matched up on Tmac for about half of those games...

This season TMac is winning that battle...

And TMac didn't shoot at a particularly good PCT today...but if you watch that game he only missed like 1 or 2 shots with Bowen on him....the rest were anyone else who was guarding him...in particular Manu.

[T Park]

what did he shoot, 11 of 25?

thats low 40s. Nothin to write home about, Hell that would be a decent game from Barry.

[exstatic]

7-21
12-29
10-28

Those are McGrady's numbers for the three games previous to this one, so far this season. That's a combined 29-78, or spot on for his career 37%. I feel like I need to get David Spade in here with all of his different ways to say NO from the Capital One commercials. Bowen had an off game, defensively, today.

NANKA!

[whottt]

You must have missed the Houston game where TMac scored 50 points in the final 13 seconds of the game....all on Bowen.

[T Park]

You must have missed the Houston game where TMac scored 50 points

Yeah I must admit, I did miss that game.

[exstatic]

12-29

That was the last minute scoring game. I didn't miss anything. You can't blame Bowen for that loss, either. Overall, he did a good job on TMac. If the Spurs had been able to do anything on O, other than miss and turn the ball over, they win that game.

[T Park]

12-29 what is that high 30s?

[whottt]

12-29

That was the last minute scoring game. I didn't miss anything. You can't blame Bowen for that loss, either. Overall, he did a good job on TMac. If the Spurs had been able to do anything on O, other than miss and turn the ball over, they win that game.


I don't think Bowen is slacking...but TMac has his fucking number this season, I am sorry if you don't see it.

[T Park]

yeah I guess 11 of 25 is horrible defense.

I dont see it either.

took 25 shots to get 26 points???

Thats called good defense.

[texbound]

??? The ABC crew said that before today, TMac's shooting % against SA, for his career, was 37%. Not exactly "ownership".

Exactly. In fact they went on to say that this is the worse % T-mac has against any team. I would say Bowen has alot to do with that. He can't stutdown everyone, but he can stay in front of the guy and make it difficult. However, with players such as T-mac, Kobe and Pierce sometimes there is not thing you can do.

[whottt]

yeah I guess 11 of 25 is horrible defense.

I dont see it either.

took 25 shots to get 26 points???

Thats called good defense.

Yeah and he was about 9-13 with Bowen on him today...

[cherylsteele]

loose the hate on Bowen.

He helped win that damn game tonight.

Where were you when he was bagging clutch ass threes in the 4th quarter.

Oh My God!!!!

I agree with T Park.

I will expand on this thought...Bowen's mid-range jumper is better....and he is better off the dribble this year.......To be fair...everyone seemed to missing layups....especially early in the game.

[Kori Ellis]

Bowen didn't have a good first half at all against TMac. Manu played him really well when matched up against him and Bowen played really well against him late. TMac played "scared" of Manu. He is kind of used to Bowen's tactics now.

By the way Whottt, he was no where close to 9-for-13 against Bowen or whatever. Some of his first half points came against Manu, some came against Barry, and some on fast breaks. He got a couple lucky shots, he got that BS foul on Barry that should have been offensive (when Barry was a frickin' statue). In the first half he shot 6-for-11.

He plays well against Bruce in stretches, and horrible against Bruce in other stretches. But he was definitely scared/rattled by Manu's style tonight.

[Useruser666]

You must have missed the Houston game where TMac scored 50 points in the final 13 seconds of the game....all on Bowen.

You must of missed it too. You must have missed the 3 and 1 on Duncan. That is 4 of his miracle points you are talking about right there.

[ChumpDumper]

Don't forget the last transition 3 over Barry.

[Spurminator]

Um, simply put... No.

Bowen had a bad game today. That's maybe his second bad game out of 8 against TMac since becoming a Spur. Aside from today and 30 seconds of a previous game during which Jesus Himself could not have stopped McGrady's shots from finding the basket, Bowen has held his own just fine.

Before today, here are McGrady's numbers against the Spurs since Bowen joined the team:

2/23/05: 7-21, 22
1/15/05: 10-28, 28
12/9/05: 12-29, 33
4/01/04: 12-26, 30
1/31/04: 15-36, 35
2/03/03: 12-36, 26
11/6/02: 7-21, 20

That's a whopping 38%. Less than a point per shot, for someone who has averaged 1.25 PPS over that period. And today somehow shifts the advantage to McGrady? He's going to have to pull a couple 40-point games out of the bag before Bowen relinquishes ownership.

[whottt]

Kori...I don't think Bowen played badly againt TMac in technique or effort, I think he busted his ass and arguably played harder against him than any other game...I just think TMac his number. And Manu does seem to fluster him more...he seems totally comfortable with Bruce on him.

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't see Tmac run off any picks when Manu was on him. I'll have to look at the tape.

[whottt]

Yes do watch the tape...you'll see TMac hitting a ton of shots over Bruce...even when Bruce has help defending him, even when Rasho and Nazr were helping him...TMac does not sweat Bowen being on him at all, it seems to bring out the best in him...so please do watch that game closely.

The thing is he is more lilkely to shoot it when Bruce on him as well...I saw him giving the ball up when he had freaking Barry on him...

[ChumpDumper]

Guess what idiot, when Bowen covers a guy for 35 minutes, he's going to get scored on.

[whottt]

Shit he can get scored on if he's only guarding him for 13 seconds, multiple times......blame that on the picks. Dumbfuck...

[T Park]

iceberg right ahead.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, when he scored on Duncan and Barry, that was Bruce's fault.

[whottt]

That was one...you still have more to make excuses for...

[ChumpDumper]

That was 6 points.

[whottt]

Link? I know he scored on Bowen multiple times...Barry wasn't even on the court until the last fucking play where Devin choked. And TMac didn't hit that shot over Barry so I know you are lying...don't make me dig the game out.

[ChumpDumper]

Barry, Beno -- a white guard.

Not Bowen.

You remember everything about the game, so you obviously know that.

Get the tape.

Blame all the TOs on Bruce while you're at it.

[whottt]

Yawn.

TMac lights Bowen up...not really due to anything Bowen is doing wrong...he's just playing very well against him..period. I think Manu has more success against him and will continue to think that until it stops being true.

[Spurminator]

TMac lights Bowen up.


38% shooting, less than a point per shot

[ChumpDumper]

All the misses are when Barry is covering him.

[T Park]

he'll ignore that Spurm.

[Supergirl]

My observation just from today's game is that Bowen doesn't cover TMac as well in man-to-man D because TMac is all over the court, and Bowen doesn't stay on top of him as well as Manu does. In a zone D Bowen covers TMac better, and does a good job of basically forcing him to haul up long 2s and 3s, many of which he still makes when he's shooting well.

This may just be an anomaly, though, because Bowen is usually one of the best man-to-man defenders I've ever seen. Maybe he was off today, or maybe TMac is particularly hard to cover man-to-man.

[SequSpur]

Game blog.

[grjr]

He got a couple lucky shots, he got that BS foul on Barry that should have been offensive (when Barry was a frickin' statue). .

Far be it for ME to defend the refs and I thought that was a BS call when it happened but when they showed the replay from behind you could see that Barry clearly moved his right shoulder into TMac right before he got there. It was clearly a foul.

The Mutombo block on Barry looked clean on the replay too. (I can't believe I'm saying this)

HOWEVER, the foul that wasn't called on Manu as the first half ended was complete BS. We get fouls called on us in the last second of halfs. Why not the other way around?

jr

[Kori Ellis]

Far be it for ME to defend the refs and I thought that was a BS call when it happened but when they showed the replay from behind you could see that Barry clearly moved his right shoulder into TMac right before he got there. It was clearly a foul.

I haven't seen a replay. But live, I hated that call :)

[whottt]

Spurm...I know they said TMac has his lowest FG% VS any team against the Spurs...and I know that if you look at striaght PCT's it seems like the Spurs have shut him down this year...but I know Tmac shot well(incredible against him actually, at least 50% IIRC) against Bowen in the Devin Brown game because I broke it down after the game...and I am certain TMac shot well over 50% against Bowen this game. I am certain of it. One game I didn't see but we lost it...and the last game the Rockets were in a definite slump when we played them.


Chump...that Beno point was stupid...do you see me saying we should put Beno on Tmac? What a fucktard you can be.

We have one great perimeter defender and one all world perimeter defender...and it just so happens one of them seems to either have more luck against TMac or make him less comfortable than the other...

I am not the only one that noticed it...Hubie noticed that Manu's style was effecting TMac also...He said TMac is probably used to Bowen.

[Kori Ellis]

I am not the only one that noticed it...Hubie noticed that Manu's style was effecting TMac also...He said TMac is probably used to Bowen.

You are right. That's what happened tonight. But in general, Bowen gets the best of TMac in stretches, and then TMac gets the best of Bowen. That's what happens when you have to play against one of the best players in the league for extended minutes.

Bowen will probably watch a lot of tape on TMac now and do some things to adjust if they meet in the playoffs, so that McGrady isn't so "used to" his tactics.

[whottt]

Bruce might think of breaking out the Carter, Sczerbiak, or Barry tactics. Joking(kinda) :)