Tim Duncan: The greatest power forward to play the game? He’s isn’t even the best PF

[Leftyventricle]

lameass artictle.

http://bareknucks.com/tim-duncan-the-greatest-power-forward-to-play-the-game-hes-isnt-even-the-best-pf-in-the-nba-right-now

Tim Duncan: The greatest power forward to play the game? He’s isn’t even the best PF in the NBA right now
Posted by Bob on May 24, 2009 in Featured, NBA • 3 comments

When the debate of the best Power Forward to ever play the game is brought up, Tim Duncan seems to be the trendy pick. I can’t consent with this for a couple of reasons.

Tim Duncan isn’t even the best Power Forward in the NBA right now:

How can we say Duncan is the best PF ever, when he’s not even the best in the league at this moment in time? Or the past decade for that matter?! Have we forgotten about Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett?


The infamous ring argument:

One will be quick to bring up the fact that Duncan has 4 championship rings while Dirk has a goose egg and KG boasts only 1 finger’s worth, but do rings really matter when we are talking about pure talent? No! I mean, when we say ‘The best power forward ever,’ I interpret that as the PF with the best skill set, NOT the player who has had a more successful career. So many people use the ring argument when trying to justify a player’s abilities, but if that was the case Robert Horry (7 rings) would trump the players mentioned above. Nothing against Big Shot Bob, but is he better than Duncan, Nowitzki or Garnett? Hell no!

The Numbers (Career Averages):

Garnett: 20.2 ppg, 11.1 rpg

Nowitzki: 22.7 ppg, 8.6 rpg

Duncan: 21.4 ppg, 11.7 rpg

Conclusion:

Dirk, KG and Timmay all have similar career statistics, and have all been a large part of their team’s success. However, if you put Dirk or KG on a Spurs team with David Robinson or players like Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli, they will win just as many, if not more championship rings. Given Dirk and KG’s versatility, I’d say they are better PFs than Tim Duncan. Duncan is a great player, but I think it’s ridiculous to say he’s the best PF in the history of the NBA. Top 10? Absolutely. The best? No way!

[TDMVPDPOY]

put duncan on the mavs he wouldve had rings

put duncan on the wolves, they would get at leasts pass the first round....

this guy is a tool

[Sausage]

HOF

:rollin

[ffadicted]

:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep

[dbreiden83080]

How can we say Duncan is the best PF ever, when he’s not even the best in the league at this moment in time?

That is like saying "how can we say Jordan is the best player of all time when he is retired and Lebron is in the league" I mean give me a break. Tim's career accomplishments make him the best ever at that position..



Given Dirk and KG’s versatility, I’d say they are better PFs than Tim Duncan.

Dirk can't play D and has proven to a be a choke artist in big spots. Oh yeah he is versatile alright..

[Pucho!!!]

Which one of these dudes was both a league mvp and finals mvp in the same year for that matter??? Yea, dumbass

[Pucho!!!]

That is like saying "how can we say Jordan is the best player of all time when he is retired and Lebron is in the league" I mean give me a break. Tim's career accomplishments make him the best ever at that position Amen brother

[xcoriate]

what a compelling argument that was...

[jag]

"Posted by Bob"

[GSH]

lameass artictle.




It's not an article, it's somebody's dumb shit blog. You missed the one where Bob debates Superman vs. Iron Man. It's really controversial stuff.

[ShoogarBear]

Place your bets: Mav Fan, Sun Fan, or Laker Fan?

[GSH]

Place your bets: Mav Fan, Sun Fan, or Laker Fan?


It had the feel of Nowitzki love to me.

[urunobili]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j175/Vodin_Deathrn/Lulz/epic_failure_seal.png

[Spursfan092120]

They should send this article to Slam or Sports Illustrated...they'll tell them where to shove it.

[Sean Cagney]

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read, and I am serious.


LOL this dude got killed on his own blog by everyone, damn. Thats what you get when you think something stupid and believe it and then post it thinking everyone will rally around you! Keep it to yourself next time BOB.

[SouthTexasRancher]

You obviously missed the shredder. It is over in the corner to your right. Did you pick this crap up at the Grayhound bus station community restroom? Best you scrub down with lye soap and go through your local car wash. :ihit

[CubanMustGo]

"Bob" wouldn't post my response. Coward.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm better than Wilt because I can beat him in a game of one on one right now. :lmao

"Fifty years from now, some stat geek will crunch numbers from Duncan’s era and come to the conclusion that Kevin Garnett was just as good. And he’ll be wrong."
- Bill Simmons

And finally...
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/Umyeah.jpg

[duncan228]

"Bob" wouldn't post my response. Coward.

Did you say something worse than the ones already there? :lol


this abortion of an article

Stop blogging about something you obviously have no idea about.

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read

writing stupid articles like that just shows your amateurism.
I can’t believe I just insulted amateurs.

There is no limit of obtuse writers in the world.

Your argument sucks

bob. you are an idiot. your argument holds no water.

[lefty]

writing stupid articles like that just shows your amateurism.
I can’t believe I just insulted amateurs
That was me :D

[Sean Cagney]

I'm better than Wilt because I can beat him in a game of one on one right now. :lmao

"Fifty years from now, some stat geek will crunch numbers from Duncan’s era and come to the conclusion that Kevin Garnett was just as good. And he’ll be wrong."
- Bill Simmons

And finally...
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/Umyeah.jpgThat quote from Simmons is classic! I loved when he said that there, and it's true.

Some kid will watch sportscenter now too and see Dirk or someone shooting alot of threes or someone dunking and then say they are better than Tim Duncan, while never seeing what Tim has done for this game all these years.

I think some forget, and how soon this BOB guy forgot. It's easy to get them when they are down, but when he was winning his titles forget it, no argument AT ALL.

[duncan228]

About the site the blog is on:


About Us
The Idea.

The idea of the site is to take it to, or criticize, every player in the sports that we love to watch. Our hope is to give a good jab to every player. If we make fun of your favorite player today, there’s a good chance we’ll be criticizing a player you dislike tomorrow. Use our articles as ammo against your friend’s favorite teams. Our goal is to criticize everyone and make sure everyone gets their fair share of crap.

Have fun with this and tell us why we’re dead wrong when it comes to your favorite players.

Take the gloves off.

[rayray2k8]

People go by ring count, not just stats. Duncan has as many MVP awards as Dirk and KG.

[poop]

tell them to watch Tim from '98 (where he was an MVP candidate his rookie season) to '03.
during that time he destroyed all forwards ever. every aspect of his game was flawless. offense and defense.

[bdictjames]

I thought in the end, its winning that matters? If that's the case, Duncan is certainly the best power forward to play the game.

[Solid D]

Championships count for a lot.

Never-the-less, most people understand that Duncan is a much better post defender than Dirk,.....down at the other end of the court where the other half the game is played. Garnett is an excellent defender, 1st-team All-NBA Defensive Team alongside Duncan many years. However, he's not the shot-blocker Duncan is. Timmy has averaged 2.3 blocks per game (Garnett 1.6, Nowitzki 1.0) and 2.6 in the playoffs.

Tim Duncan is the only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first 12 seasons. (The only player, not just the only PF/C).

Career playoffs numbers
Player...G...GS..MPG FG% 3-% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
Duncan 160 160 39.8 .501 .143 .689 12.6 3.5 0.7 2.6 23.3
Garnett 73 73 41.0 .470 .318 .776 12.4 4.4 1.3 1.6 21.6
Nowitzki 97 97 41.9 .454 .367 .879 11.0 2.6 1.2 1.0 25.5

If there is a discussion, it shouldn't be about Duncan, KG or Dirk. The question should be Bob Pettit, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone, or Tim Duncan?

[Blackjack]

About the site the blog is on:

About Us
The Idea.

The idea of the site is to take it to, or criticize, every player in the sports that we love to watch. Our hope is to give a good jab to every player. If we make fun of your favorite player today, there’s a good chance we’ll be criticizing a player you dislike tomorrow. Use our articles as ammo against your friend’s favorite teams. Our goal is to criticize everyone and make sure everyone gets their fair share of crap.

Have fun with this and tell us why we’re dead wrong when it comes to your favorite players.

Take the gloves off.

Leave it to 228 to get to the bottom of things.:toast

Simma-down-nah, people.:lol

But if that's the best "jab" Bob's got, I think the dude better never step into a ring.

[Blackjack]

If there is a discussion, it shouldn't be about Duncan, KG or Dirk. The question should be Bob Petitt, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone, or Tim Duncan?

I never got the chance to see Petitt play, but I get the feeling he's gotten a raw-deal over the years.

Some of the numbers he put up are flat-out disgusting.:wow

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm waiting for Bob's follow-up, calling Magic Johnson a fraud because he played with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and James Worthy, and arguing that John Stockton was really the superior player.

[mosdef17]

I can't believe he threw Dirk out there... HAHAHA

[HarlemHeat37]

what was his argument? his argument was that they have SIMILAR stats(the worst types of stats to compare), and Duncan has had better teammates(which hasn't been true when compared to KG the last 2 years)..one of the worst arguments I've ever heard, and I don't understand why somebody would actually post this weak shit on a blog..

you don't even have to mention the titles..that's the part that annoys me when people argue about Duncan..they seem to think that he doesn't stack up without the rings..the idiots that are anti-Duncan don't actually back their points up with valid facts or numbers or anything..

MVP awards: Duncan 2, KG 1, Dirk 1(eliminated in the 1st round that year by 8th seed LOL)..

MVP voting shares: Duncan 4.21(2nd active behind Shaq, they're the only 2 guys that are even above 3.0), KG 2.75, Dirk 1.66..

all-NBA 1st teams D and O: Duncan 17, KG 12, Dirk 4(one of them was this year, where Duncan clearly would have gotten it had he stayed healthy)..

Duncan's PER is better than both guys, he has a significantly better defensive rating, he's significantly above anybody else in the NBA in defensive win shares, his playoff stats are significantly better than both..

he also carried a team of role players to a title in 2003, so the supporting cast argument barely holds water..

THEN I can mention the 4 titles he's led the team too, and the 3 finals MVPs..

there's really no argument..Dirk doesn't belong anywhere near either, since he doesn't even play defense, and he lost to an 8th seed..

[Ghazi]

Duncan more like DONEcan LOL!

[peskypesky]

Jordan wasn't all that great either. He only won Championships because he had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman and Phil Jackson on his side.

[Fernando TD21]

:bang Crappy article. At least there are some funny comments there. :lol

[Leftyventricle]

an interesting twitter about duncan from http://twitter.com/DufresneLATimes . what a fuckin jerk off.

1: Tim Duncan. Wake Forest. Fly cross-country to interview. Would not make eye contact. Rude. Why? So bad I walked out out the interview.
9:00 AM May 22nd from web


2; Ryan Leaf. QB. Wash St. Pullman. Heisman pub story. Snarky. PR assist."I think he's in good mood.." Wrong. "Bad guy," noted to self.
8:57 AM May 22nd from web

3: Ricky Williams, RB, Texas. Lunch. Hula Hut,. Austin. 2 hours, couldn't beat a sentence out of him. Wish I was wearing helmet. painful
8:52 AM May 22nd from web
4: Bode Miller, before Turino. Also on BEST interview list. Petulant, brilliant,. claimed he didn't pen words in his own book. Huh?
8:50 AM May 22nd from web

5: Ken Simonton: Oregon St. RB. went to Corvallis to pub him for Heisman along with J. Harrington. Acted like I was from IRS. check pls?
8:47 AM May 22nd from web

What's my top/bottom five? Well, the order changes depending on my mood and memory but Tim Duncan can NEVER be dislodged from No.1
8:33 AM May 22nd from web

[Ice009]

Duncan more like DONEcan LOL!

LOL you are the best man. Good old Mavs done good.

[sananspursfan21]

huh, that's interesting this know-it-all would say that. i think the greatest PF in the history should atleast have had an MVP at some point, and correct me if I'm wrong, but KG has never won an MVP and Dirk has won 1 while Timmy has 2 not to mention 3 finals mvps

[sananspursfan21]

it's okay, i left a nice little post on bareknucks.com for the bob guy

[toki9]

huh, that's interesting this know-it-all would say that. i think the greatest PF in the history should atleast have had an MVP at some point, and correct me if I'm wrong, but KG has never won an MVP and Dirk has won 1 while Timmy has 2 not to mention 3 finals mvps

KG won the MVP in 2004.

[HarlemHeat37]

his stats are also actually lower due to the Spurs pace as well..we're usually near the bottom of the NBA in pace..

[BWS-1994]

18. Kill_Bill_Panaca on May 25, 2009, 1:17 am:
You are liars! Soon Lebron will rise as the best player ever. Duncan only got 2 mvps, and Lebron wasn’t playing yet when Duncan won the mvps. So Duncan only won because he was going against weak competitors, like kobe, shaq, garnett, dirk, webber, etc.

And duncan always had greatest suporting cast, even in this season when the ginobili was hurt, he still had the finley, bruce bowen, matt bonner, hill and jaque vaughn and the french guy.

:lol

[TwinTowers]

The article is just dumb to say the least. Unfortunately, we might never see another post player as dominant, skillfull, and talented as Duncan is. As basketball fans we need to appreciate TD while we still have it.

[Libri]

About Us
The Idea.

The idea of the site is to take it to, or criticize, every player in the sports that we love to watch. Our hope is to give a good jab to every player. If we make fun of your favorite player today, there’s a good chance we’ll be criticizing a player you dislike tomorrow. Use our articles as ammo against your friend’s favorite teams. Our goal is to criticize everyone and make sure everyone gets their fair share of crap.

Have fun with this and tell us why we’re dead wrong when it comes to your favorite players.

Take the gloves off. http://www.motivationpics.com/images/you_fail_at_failing.jpg

[thekingrobert]

The funny thing is how he says Duncan isn't the best in the game and proceeds to show career averages to prove his point. But Duncan's are better......idiot

[Obstructed_View]

I think the Lakers fan saying Timmy's the worst person ever because he was rude and wouldn't make eye contact has more credibility than this dude.

[galvatron3000]

This arguments is so full of holes, Dirk has had more talented teams than Tim or Garnett and when he should have taken hi guys to the mountain top he choked big time. Garnett on the other hand is not the same type of player as either, he is more versatile on the defensive end of the floor than either and Dirk is more versatile on the offensive end. That being said Tim is a beast on the low block, has the range to consistently hit the 15 to 17 footer, has the footwork to make the best defender look like a high school kid, get to the line, gets the opposing team in the penalty, plays great teams defense (use too) and you say these guys are better. Sure they are more versatile but that's not better just useful but Tim, you got to be kidding coming in here with the flavor of the month hype fact sheet.

[Hornets1]

Tim Duncan made the PF position what it is today. Garnett's stats are very comparable. The difference:
1. Players have better stats when they are they only or one of the only good players on their team(Where KG obviously benefited)\
2. Duncan has 4 (FOUR!) rings!

BTW, I really like both players, and was probably a bigger fan of garnett due to his intense nature and more-outspoken love for the game(not saying anything bad about duncan here). Timmy might be the only player to have "quietly" dominated anyone in his way during his prime like he did.

Dirk is a great PF! Especially the last 5 years, but KG and Duncan have been doing it a lot longer. I wouldnt argue if someone said dirk was the best shooting PF in the history of the NBA

[galvatron3000]

Tim Duncan made the PF position what it is today. Garnett's stats are very comparable. The difference:
1. Players have better stats when they are they only or one of the only good players on their team(Where KG obviously benefited)\
2. Duncan has 4 (FOUR!) rings!

BTW, I really like both players, and was probably a bigger fan of garnett due to his intense nature and more-outspoken love for the game(not saying anything bad about duncan here). Timmy might be the only player to have "quietly" dominated anyone in his way during his prime like he did.

Dirk is a great PF! Especially the last 5 years, but KG and Duncan have been doing it a lot longer. I wouldnt argue if someone said dirk was the best shooting PF in the history of the NBA

I would

[Sean Cagney]

Duncan more like DONEcan LOL!

He got near 20-11 this year, thats done? Are you serious? He is still the best PF ever, Dirk is not even in the argument Mavs fan.

[dougp]

I would

Why would someone try to even argue that Dirk is the best shooting PF? Maybe he is currently, but he couldn't even hold a candle to Bird ... and that's the first person to come to mind for me.

[Obstructed_View]

Bird was a small forward. McHale was the power forward.

[dougp]

Bird was a small forward. McHale was the power forward.

Bird played both positions.

[Obstructed_View]

Bird played both positions.

Not once Kevin McHale showed up.

[dougp]

Not once Kevin McHale showed up.

So you're agreeing that he played PF ...

[Road House Captain]

Conclusion:

Dirk, KG and Timmay all have similar career statistics, and have all been a large part of their team’s success. However, if you put Dirk or KG on a Spurs team with David Robinson or players like Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli, they will win just as many, if not more championship rings. Given Dirk and KG’s versatility, I’d say they are better PFs than Tim Duncan. Duncan is a great player, but I think it’s ridiculous to say he’s the best PF in the history of the NBA. Top 10? Absolutely. The best? No way!

Pure speculation on his part with no proof any of this would be true.

[z0sa]

get ready for many, many more articles sort of like this. The media will be writing Tim's accomplishments off for many years to come, including our 4 championships.

[FromWayDowntown]

Why is that when people choose to show their ignorance about Tim Duncan's greatness, they almost invariably resort to calling him "Timmay" or something stupid like that?

[Horse]

This is usually where I'd call this guy a whole bunch of curse words but this stupid thread is so rediculous I can't honestly believe he's serious.

[Obstructed_View]

So you're agreeing that he played PF ...

I never said he didn't. That he was playing out of position doesn't change the fact that he's a small forward.

[FromWayDowntown]

I never said he didn't. That he was playing out of position doesn't change the fact that he's a small forward.

Come on! Everyone knows that Magic Johnson is the best passing Center of all-time because he played center in Game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals!

[dougp]

Come on! Everyone knows that Magic Johnson is the best passing Center of all-time because he played center in Game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals!

I doubt Bird would have moved to SF ... his size & length made him more of a PF than his game did. He was 6'9" and had long arms - next thing you know, they'll be calling him a shooting guard because of his game.

[ShoogarBear]

I doubt Bird would have moved to SF ... his size & length made him more of a PF than his game did. He was 6'9" and had long arms - next thing you know, they'll be calling him a shooting guard because of his game.

Bird and Magic were the same size.

[FromWayDowntown]

I doubt Bird would have moved to SF ... his size & length made him more of a PF than his game did. He was 6'9" and had long arms - next thing you know, they'll be calling him a shooting guard because of his game.

So was it Parish or McHale that played the SF on the Boston teams of the 80's?

[ShoogarBear]

The Celtics' low-post threats were Parish, McHale, and Maxwell. Bird was definitely the small forward on offense. And he rarely guarded the power forward on defense except for a brief stretches when Parish and McHale were taking a blow.

[xellos88330]

This thread is

we-ta-ded!!!

[galvatron3000]

Then you are an imbecile..simple as that. :ihit

Classic:downspin:

[Obstructed_View]

Come on! Everyone knows that Magic Johnson is the best passing Center of all-time because he played center in Game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals!

:lol I thought of that too. Bird DID in fact play PF for a couple of years because Cedric Maxwell was too small to play the 4 and too good not to start. And to be fair, Bird was probably at least as much of a 4 as Dirk is.

[galvatron3000]

:lol I thought of that too. Bird DID in fact play PF for a couple of years because Cedric Maxwell was too small to play the 4 and too good not to start. And to be fair, Bird was probably at least as much of a 4 as Dirk is.

Bird was a better 4 than Dirk but I'm the imbecile so what do I know:whine

[Obstructed_View]

Bird was a better 4 than Dirk but I'm the imbecile so what do I know:whine

Guess I am too, because despite my continued assertion that Bird is a 3, I agree that he's a better post player and tougher inside player than Dirk.

[barbacoataco]

I could write forever about this ridiculous thread. What I would say has already been said.
Duncan is at the point in his career where he is still really good, but has lost quite a bit compared to say, his 2002-2003 form. Then what happens is idiots who never watched him play that much, or forgot what they saw, start saying things like "tim Duncan wasn't really that good." Nobody who just finished watching the 2003 playoffs would have said that, but that was 6 years ago.

[Obstructed_View]

I could write forever about this ridiculous thread. What I would say has already been said.
Duncan is at the point in his career where he is still really good, but has lost quite a bit compared to say, his 2002-2003 form. Then what happens is idiots who never watched him play that much, or forgot what they saw, start saying things like "tim Duncan wasn't really that good." Nobody who just finished watching the 2003 playoffs would have said that, but that was 6 years ago.

I just think it's funny that somebody says "Duncan's over the hill" and suggests KG's better while failing to notice that Duncan had better numbers than KG and also managed not to physically break down.

[Sean Cagney]

I could write forever about this ridiculous thread. What I would say has already been said.
Duncan is at the point in his career where he is still really good, but has lost quite a bit compared to say, his 2002-2003 form. Then what happens is idiots who never watched him play that much, or forgot what they saw, start saying things like "tim Duncan wasn't really that good." Nobody who just finished watching the 2003 playoffs would have said that, but that was 6 years ago.

Not just 03, he played great after that too! I agree and see what you are saying though, after 03 he was on top of the world and the best PF EVER already! How soon some forget how great he has been in this game for so long because of a down year.

I agree some idiots will start saying that though based on now (He still is very good), they will say oh he is not that great and forget what he has done, but seriously they could not be more wrong!

It is so easy to just forget what they or we saw a few years ago, people are so into the now that they forget how truly saw in him, they go with the just now or the last game they saw on players (Tim played great in his last game but the Spurs lost).

[Horse]

TImmy was hurt this year but he was damn near 20 10 yet again I think only two other players finished 20 10. He was very good against dallas and has been for a very long time what about 06 when he scored like 40 a gm vs. dallas. He always steps it way up in the playoffs, Who could ever forget how he took over when detroit went up 9 in gm 7. dick and gaynett would never do that and there's no comparison

[FaithInOne]

How can we say Duncan is the best PF ever, when he’s not even the best in the league at this moment in time? Or the past decade for that matter?! Have we forgotten about Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett?




hahahaha what a fucking joke.

[TampaDude]

"Bob" is an idiot...'nuff said...

[Brazil]

Can we just let this thread die ?

[Taijihu]

Rob on May 24, 2009, 6:50 pm:

Bob, I’m disappointed to share a similar name with you, this argument is terrible.

orz...