Tony Parker's Jumpshot

[sungo99]

Tony Parker is quite possibly the worst jumpshooting guard in the NBA. The following is copied from my blog (which is linked in my signature).

****

Then there's Tony Parker. Unfortunately the league has finally figured out how to guard him. I'll spell it out for everyone. Here it is. You have your pens and papers ready?

Step 1. Put a long and/or muscular player on him.
Step 2. GO UNDER THE SCREEN AND ROLL.
Step 3. Reread Step 2.

It's that simple and I have no idea what has taken teams so long to figure this out. Here's the thing. Tony Parker is quite possibly the worst jump-shooting guard in the NBA. Tony Parker is quite possibly the worst jump-shooting guard in the NBA. Reread those last two sentences. Despite being maybe the best finishing PG in the game, the man cannot consistently hit the J. Want proof? His effective FG% on jump shots is 41.1%. That is AWFUL. The following is a list of the rest of the Spurs effective FG% on jump shots:

Udrih -- 48.5%
Ginobili -- 51.0%
Barry -- 46.8%
Brown -- 42.8%
Bowen -- 49.2%
Duncan -- 41.3%
Nesterovic -- 34.5%
Horry -- 46.1%

According to ESPN.com, Kirk Hinrich has the lowest (non-effective) shooting percentage of qualified guards. His effective FG% on jump shots is 44.8%.

I knew, before even looking at the numbers, that Parker was a horrible shooter. Yet NBA teams, complete with advance scouts, endless game tape and the same internet I use still go over the top of just about every screen, exposing some big man who has no hope of preventing Parker from penetrating into the lane where he kills opponents. This shit drives me crazy.

I mean, fuck, just look at the way he shoots. He's got the most awful follow through -- he's one of those damned wrist-flickers -- after his shot his arm isn't extended all the way. Think of the great free throw shooters -- Reggie Miller, Damon Stoudamire, Steve Kerr, Ray Allen -- they all end with there arms fully extended. The only decent shooting wrist-flicker I can think of is Brent Barry.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not mad at Tony Parker. I love the guy as a player; I was hoping the Spurs wouldn't sign Kidd because of The Wee Frechman. Blind stupidity in sports just really pisses me off. When it comes to baseball, every at bat Rey Ordonez gets, every "pitching and defense wins championships" comment goes right to my core like someone slapped my face. This is just a basketball equivalent of that.

[TDfan2007]

You are right, he has no follow through on his jumper, it is simply disgusting.

[Kori Ellis]

He also gets to the rack easier than almost any player in the league.

Every player has their strengths and their weaknesses.

[sungo99]

He also gets to the rack easier than almost any player in the league.

Every player has their strengths and their weaknesses.

Not only can he get to the rack, he can finish. His effective FG% "close" is 63.8%, which is ridiculously high for a guard. In fact, it's better than Duncan (57.7%).

You're right, every player has strengths and weaknesses, but rarely are they both at the extremes: worst shooting guard and (possibly) best finishing guard.

The main point of my entry was NBA teams continue to guard him in the stupidest of manners.

[Nikos]

If Parker could get to the line more and hit his FT's I could accept the sub-standard shooting. But if he wants to take his game to the next level like his talent suggests, he will need to either start producing more at the line, or become a reasonable 3pt shooter (or a combination of both). Otherwise he will continue to seen as an above average PG with unfulfilled potential.

[Kori Ellis]

Well I believe Tony can improve his shooting. Not many players can improve to be able to get to the rack like he can. In the next few years I believe Tony is going to really develop his all-around game. He's already improved his defense ten-fold. His jump shooting should (hopefully) improve over the next few seasons.

[picnroll]

As I noted in another thread I'd also like to see Parker begin to think about change of pace and change of direction on drives not just blow and go. Watch some Nash tapes.

[wildbill2u]

Well I believe Tony can improve his shooting. Not many players can improve to be able to get to the rack like he can. In the next few years I believe Tony is going to really develop his all-around game. He's already improved his defense ten-fold. His jump shooting should (hopefully) improve over the next few seasons.

I question his commitment to improving his jumper. Haven't seen any signs of it so far in all his years here and while he's been the starting guard from day one.. It's getting a little late to say, "well, wait til he grows up, he's only (fill in blank here) years old.

You're in a position to know. Does he really work on it? I mean like shooting 500 shots every day?

[Frenchise player]

If it was that easy to stop Parker, I wonder why he is scoring 16.6 points per game.
The way you are trying to resolve the problem creates another: who will you put on Manu?
If you matchup Tony with a SG, you will probably slow him a bit, but you will have an horrible matchup with your PG against Manu. It is not a solution, you are just moving the problem to another matchup.
The only problem with Tony's game is that he is too much dependent on Tim and Manu to create his shots.
He can't be the first offensive threat because he can't cope with a defense focused in stoping him. Since he has Manu and Tim, defenders must worry about at least 2 other players and Tony has some freedom to attack the other PG and to create for himself or for his teamates

[Kori Ellis]

I question his commitment to improving his jumper. Haven't seen any signs of it so far in all his years here and while he's been the starting guard from day one.. It's getting a little late to say, "well, wait til he grows up, he's only (fill in blank here) years old.

You're in a position to know. Does he really work on it? I mean like shooting 500 shots every day?

I know he worked on it somewhat this summer. How much? I don't know to be honest. I can ask around. I think his game improved a lot on the defensive end this season, which I like. So I'm not complaining much about his jumpshooting. But yes, if it doesn't improve in the next couple seasons by him putting in hard work on it, that would suck.

[exstatic]

It's getting a little late to say, "well, wait til he grows up, he's only (fill in blank here) years old.
Except that if he went to college, he'd be a rookie now. Gary Payton's jumper was so bad at 24 or 25 that Seattle was ready to dump him. He turned out allright.

I think that Parker had done some good shooting his first few years, and has slid back a bit, specifically from beyond the arc. In a way, his commitment to defense may be leaving him with tired legs late in the game. I would like to see him work on his endurance, as well as repetitive shooting drills. He should really have a shooting coach work with him, and shoot beaucoup jumpers every day this summer. If Parker could add a consistant jumper, it doesn't even have to be great, he could become the best all around PG in the game. He's already pretty much unstoppable off the dribble, and his decision making and defense have vastly improved. I think a better jumpshot form would also bleed over into his FT shooting.

[maxpower]

Considering most Spurs fans had Avery as their starting pg for quite a few years, Tony's jumpshot is not something I will lose sleep over. Like it's been alluded to above, Tony seems the type of player who will look to improve his game as time goes by.

[sungo99]

If it was that easy to stop Parker, I wonder why he is scoring 16.6 points per game.
The way you are trying to resolve the problem creates another: who will you put on Manu?
Though I didn't list it as number 1, the main component to slowing Parker is how you play the pick and roll, not who you have guarding him. However, I think teams should put their better guard defender on Parker. Not because he's a better offensive player than Ginobili, but rather due to the fact that the offense runs through Parker and he uses more possessions per game than Manu.

[SequSpur]

You all are f in high

[boutons]

Is there a stat which breaks overall shooting %age into paint (layups and short jumpers/runners) and non-paint(jumpers)?

Tony's fine in the paint. But the general observation is that his jumpers and FTs that are below average, but I'd like to the stats. Bad shot mechanics, and overall weak athleticism/body control. Even when he's laying up off his correct foot, he looks like he's flat-footed off the wrong foot. It looks he wants to stop at the basket and put in in, rather than lay it up as he runs through/under the basket. Weird, and clumsy.

Tony scores because not many teams are capable of shutting down the paint (or even pretend to play defense), the way Lakers did last May, and the way Heat did @MIA, and the way Rockets did last night (Spurs -6 in the paint, only 28 vs 34.), and the way I think Mavs will under AJ, and the way Pistons will when preparing for/focusing on Spurs in the playoffs. Combined with his qtrs of nothing on offense, he surely has long way to go on offense.

Even if he's 22, 4 years in the NBA is quite enough to be close to potential. He went to a non-academic sports insititute and played pro for 3 or 4 years before the Spurs. How many years of professional competition does it take to learn how to shoot the damn ball?

But one can't be too picky because his rebounding and defense has looked great this season. Noticeable improvements in two key deparments in one season is quite enough.

Worse than the shooting is his inconsitency for a 1 qtr, a half, a game. Some games, he looks so detached and uninvolved and unalert with a near-empty stat line.

[ducks]

rember a guy named aj
parker can make a jumpshot easier then that fellow

[ducks]

lets trade him for that broken down point guard named kidd

[1Parker1]

HAHAHAHA. I love how Ducks brings up Kidd every time someone says something bad about Tony. Kind of like how Whott brings up Barry every time someone says something bad about....well any spurs player :)

[ducks]

Knowing pop I think pop told tp to work on his d this summer more then his jumpshot

[slayermin]

At least he's developed a bonafide jumper rather than that crappy set shot he had in his rookie season.

[leemajors]

dude is 22 years old, he has plenty of time to develop a good jumper. he may not even be done growing yet.

[sungo99]

Is there a stat which breaks overall shooting %age into paint (layups and short jumpers/runners) and non-paint(jumpers)?


http://82games.com/04SAS2A.HTM

That site lists effective FG%, which is total points scored on shots (FT not counted) divided by FGA*2. It basically accounts for the fact that shooting 40% from three point land is better than shooting 50% from two point land.

[IceColdBrewski]

Here come the excuses.

[ducks]

yep working on what pop wants you to do during offeason or doing what ice wants him to do
humm I wonder what will result in more playing time

[IceColdBrewski]

yep working on what pop wants you to do during offeason or doing what ice wants him to do
humm I wonder what will result in more playing time

Spare me the Bullshit. You're just speculating that Pop told him to work on defense. Take off the homer goggles.

[ducks]

well you are specualling pop said jumpshot

[ducks]

atleast he took the effort to work on his jump shot and worked on his d on the offensive
steve smith could help him he helped him before atleast smith did something
not sure who on this spur team I would want him to learn from

[IceColdBrewski]

well you are specualling pop said jumpshot

Now you're just makin shit up. Tell me where did you read that?

Truth is, I remember Parker saying he was going to work on his shooting in the offseason.

[ducks]

he did kori has told you he did

[ducks]

it looks like he will have to again this offseason
everyone including mj should work on their jumpshot during the summer

[IceColdBrewski]

Thankfully, we'll have Beno when we need a PG who can shoot. I'm sure Parker will get all the credit though if we can manage to win the Championship.

[ducks]

actually the big three will get the credit
manu,tp and duncan
but you would give all the credit to beno

[TDMVPDPOY]

Didnt parker said he was practising on his jumpshot durin the summer last year?? i think his been practising on sumthing else.

[ducks]

he went with rose,bowen I believe to the gym

[IceColdBrewski]

Didnt parker said he was practising on his jumpshot durin the summer last year?? i think his been practising on sumthing else.

Yep. Her name is Eva.

[ducks]

do you know for a fact they met each other this summer?

[Kori Ellis]

They met in November, but that's not what this thread is about.

[1Parker1]

Ice, why do you hate Parker so much? Where were you're Parker sucks, Beno should start threads for the month of Jan-Feb, when Parker was playing like a stud?

[NCaliSpurs]

When Parker gets doubled on the perimeter, somebody is wide open somewhere. This team needs to learn how to capitalize on that open man.

As an aside, why don't they run those 1-1 isolation plays at the top of arc (like they do at the end of quarters) for Tony like they do for Manu?

[IceColdBrewski]

Ice, why do you hate Parker so much? Where were you're Parker sucks, Beno should start threads for the month of Jan-Feb, when Parker was playing like a stud?

Never said Parker sucks. I sure as hell don't remember saying Beno should start.

I've always maintained that Parker was overrated by most fans and that he has a tendency disappear down the stretch. Sorry for having an opinion but he hasn't done much to prove me wrong.

[Dartherus]

IMO, if Parker if he wants to be considered an clear Superstar, he should focus more in improving his court vision and passing skills, rather than working out focused just in improving his scoring, by not doing that, he will look more like an undersized SG or just a scoring guard instead of a more complete PG.

[Jimcs50]

Well I believe Tony can improve his shooting. Not many players can improve to be able to get to the rack like he can. In the next few years I believe Tony is going to really develop his all-around game. He's already improved his defense ten-fold. His jump shooting should (hopefully) improve over the next few seasons.


You can coach shooting....you can not coach speed.

Nuff said.

[Jimcs50]

Another thing....look at Rose's and Bowens shooting now and compare it to 5 yrs ago.

nuff said.

[boutons]

"you can not coach speed."

Tony will lose his speed, and it's not terribly useful in a half-court offense that the Spurs too-often fall into. Nash isn't as nearly as fast, but his his relentless attempts to get into the paint (the way Tony does some games), to run pic n roll anywhere and everywhere make him very dangerous and effective. When Tony has those qtrs, halves, games where he doesn't try to penetrate, disappears on offense, his speed is useless.

But, he can always hit his shots (Kerr, Nash), find the open man, move the ball to de-stabilize the defense like a Stockton. He's not hitting his jumpers and FTs enough to be the 2nd Spurs offensive option, to be an undersized scoring guard, if that's what he wants to be.

His inconsistency and weak jumpers and FTs will hurt us badly in the playoffs, as they did vs 04 LAL, where the opponent will be focussing on stopping the Tim/Tony/Manu paint game.

[Jimcs50]

Tony will lose his speed,

You do not lose speed til you are 33-34 yrs old.

Has AI lost that much?
Even AJ was still one of the quickest PGs around well into his 30's.

TP's shot will get better. His Ft shooting will improve as well.

He will be twice the PG he is now, in two yrs.

[waly.mg]

The real numbers of Jumps Shots in the last 30 games of SA (TP don´t play few ones) are pathetic

Since the Clippers game (32-9) trough now 52-18 his numbers are:

Jump Shots attempts: 211
Jump Shots made: 64
Jump Shots missed: 147
Jump Shots %: 30.33%

Last 10 games: 31 of 88: 35.22%

Since TD Injured: 10-37: 27.02%

In 82games the Jump stat includes all the Jump attempts, Running Jumps, Jump hooks and Jump Shots, not only the Jump shots

And in the Clutch:
The Jump stat downs from 40.7% to 30.8%
His Close shots from 63.8% to 33.3%
His FG% from 48.6% to 28.9%

For that reason he is a 75% All-Star

[Jimcs50]

It is much much better to have penetrating PG than a jump shooting PG. TP gets to rack and five things happen, four are good, one bad. He either makes shot, passes off to teammates who shoots the three, or they get a dunk or TP he gets fouled or he misses shot. If he gets fouled, he is getting the opponent bigs in foul trouble and piling up team fouls. Bonus if he gets 3 pt play.

A jump shooter is either going to miss, or make. I will take a 80% positve outcome over a 50% any day.

[waly.mg]

The reason by which he loses effectiveness without TD is that with TD in field the defense is open marking TD, however when TD is out, the defense can wait for Tony inside and they give the shot him because they know that he is better to give space to throw before to fit the mark him and that Tony surpasses them with speed

[Frenchise player]

This thread is becomming ugly and there isn't as many french to defend Parker as argentinians to defend Manu in this forum.
Let's first stick to the facts, Tony improved statistically in:
_points + 1.9
_assists +0.6
_rebounds +0.7
_steals +0.45
_FG% +0.039%
His FT%, 3P%, TO and BPG are worse.
There is no statistics about defense but Kori and other posters keep saying that he also improved on the defensive end.
He is putting these stats after a very bad month of november and his playing time is pretty much the same. Another thing that is a little overlooked is that he has only missed one game in the entire season.
I know that I am a little far from the subject but some posters are just acting like Tony didn't improve his game at all this year (they will recognize themselves).
Parker don't need excuses, he is playing his greatest year ever.

There are also a lot of Nostradamus heirs (althought Nostradamus is french) who foresees Tony crashing in the Playoffs.
It is a total mystery for me how Tony will play in may, june, but I remember that he had a lot of great achievments in the post-season: in his first year he dominated Gary Payton when he was still one of the top 3 PG in the league, in 2003 he outplayed Kidd in the first two games of the Finals, eventually, he was the best player on the court the first two games in the Lakers series last year.
Why would it be wors this year?

It's funny how often Parker's haters bring his private life when they are arguing about his game, I can't watch Desperates Housewifes from here and Eva Longoria must be really gorgeous to provoke so much jealousy.
I never thought I will post something as long as Whoot's texts and I apologize for all the mistakes in the text.

[Frenchise player]

Though I didn't list it as number 1, the main component to slowing Parker is how you play the pick and roll, not who you have guarding him. However, I think teams should put their better guard defender on Parker. Not because he's a better offensive player than Ginobili, but rather due to the fact that the offense runs through Parker and he uses more possessions per game than Manu.
You are maybee right, but I don't really know if Parker uses more possesions per game than Manu. Manu shoots less, but he goes more often to the free-throw line, and you give the ball back the same way after shooting the free-throws.

[bigzak25]

and that's why it's important for tp to run, run, run and beat the D down the floor vs the superior defensive teams.....just needs to pace himself and save a little for the 4th...

i agree with what your saying jimbo about attacking the paint, and tony and manu are two of the best, but how many do you need when you got TD down low? a pg with a shooters touch combined with TD would be unstoppable. if not for barry's subpar D most of the year and of course beno playing steady, i think Pop would have given brent much more minutes at the point. if tony can develop a consistant 3pt shot for when they back off of him and clog the paint and get on TD, our Spurs will be unbeatable.

[GrandeDavid]

Tony`s jump shot can be frustrating, no doubt. However, on ESPN 2K5 I can make him pop the three on a consistent basis.

[Jimcs50]

and that's why it's important for tp to run, run, run and beat the D down the floor vs the superior defensive teams.....just needs to pace himself and save a little for the 4th...

i agree with what your saying jimbo about attacking the paint, and tony and manu are two of the best, but how many do you need when you got TD down low? a pg with a shooters touch combined with TD would be unstoppable. if not for barry's subpar D most of the year and of course beno playing steady, i think Pop would have given brent much more minutes at the point. if tony can develop a consistant 3pt shot for when they back off of him and clog the paint and get on TD, our Spurs will be unbeatable.

Zak, if you have a 2 and a 3 to shoot the three, that is sufficient.
But I am not totally sold that TP can not shoot the J. He can hit them in bunches and the more his confidence grows, the better he will be.

[bigzak25]

very true, and we know bruce can be money from the corner, but manu is a penetrator as well...although he can get hot from outside.

[wildbill2u]

Here come the excuses.

Exactly.
1. He's young still.
2.If he'd gone to college, he'd only be a senior
3. and if he'd taken 6 years to graduate, he'd be a sophomore
4. I think he's working on his D. (after-hours lonely footwork?)
5. But he can drive the paint (how long before he's slowed by age or injury) 6. He's still one of the top 5 (or ten)
7. He uses up a lot of energy (on Eva?)
8. He only follows Pop's directions.
9. He promised he'd work on it. Besides, he's a PG, not a SG.
10. Lighten up, he's TP and can do no wrong.

Gervin took hundreds of shots every day in practice, even after he was acclaimed one of the best shooters ever. Sometimes when success comes too early and too easily, a player tends to quit thinking about improvement and stagnates. If he'd complement his current skills with an adequate outside shot and short pull-up jumper, he'd have a chance to be GREAT instead of GOOD.

[boutons]

"for tp to run, run, run and beat the D down the floor"

That's a transition game, and Tony/Spurs won't do it if Pop say not to. Pop prefers 19th century set-piece battles, where he's lines his Big Tim-Gun and ramrods it with forced-entry passes, hoping the powder is dry.

The whole Spurs-can't-shoot-straight criticism would be less admissable if the Spurs were a league-leading in offensive rebounds to match their rebound-generation "skills". :)

I still find way too many plays where the Spurs are caught in no man's land : not crashing the basket to get rebounds, nor back on defense, just sorta spectating the shot as if the play was over with the jumpshot launched. :)

[stéphane]

well this thread, even if the questions brought are clearly justified, is a bit sad...
i wonder how hard his J % in such specific cases hurt the team...
for me a player who is that young has to keep improving every year... guess what? Tony is better than last year. Was he even close to go the ASG last year? nope
and what about this year?
for every player you can point out a thing he has to improve... but overall?
Tony is a way better defender than he ever was... and he's for me a TRUE PG...
you want him to turn into a Wade or LBJ type of PG... sorry for me these aren't PG.
There are 5different positions in a bball team, and each of them is supposed to bring something different to make the team win.
yes he lacks accuracy on his J... where are the threads about him improving some areas of his game with all the bunch of statistics that comes w/ it...
and btw you have no idea of how inconsistent he was when he was playing in France... he has done such a tremendous growth in the way he plays and how much he wants to win that i'm still amazed...
you want him to be the best PG ever? well sorry he may not be....
but he has definitely enough talent and things to bring to the team to help the spurs to get another ring... and believe me, he wants to get better and that's why he'll keep improving year after year...

[T Park]

he has a tendency disappear down the stretch

Being an Eagles fan, Brewski is an utmost expert on teams dissapearing down the stretch.

Brewski hates him, where is he when Parker has a good game??

BTW speaking of that, Parker nailed CLUTCH jumpshots in the 4th quarter sunday,

no comment on that?

[IceColdBrewski]

I'll say it one more time. If Parker can manage to get through the playoffs without disappearing on us, I'll get off his back. I'm not talking about one game here or there. Everbody has bad games. I'm talking about that mental wall he always seems to hit that makes him disappear for games at a time.

[stéphane]

that's true but believe me... its not even close to what it used to be when he was here in france... he just played for fun like a kid who has fun playing bball not really caring about who wins at the end... he has obviously done some improvement in this area even if its not perfect its more a physical/mental problem than only a mental one as it was...

[ducks]

HIS JUMPER WAS WORKING TONIGHT :elephant

[IceColdBrewski]

HIS JUMPER WAS WORKING TONIGHT :elephant

Lets hope he can keep it up. I won't be holding my breath.

[ducks]

sonics is a good team
I would rather see him do it against good teams then say the cavs

[IceColdBrewski]

parker's jumpshot is fine...when the game is on the line...he is MONEY...stop your whining and recognize what a special player we have on our team

Make sure you keep those rose collored glasses cleaned.

[ducks]

I rember tp hitting the game winner in person a year ago in phoenix