Game 4: Cleveland @ Orlando

[Lebron4MVP]

If Mo Williams doesnt play the game of his life, it will be 3-1 Orlando. Bron will bring it but will Mo and Z bring it?

[stretch]

the whole team needs to step up and hit their wide open freaking shots. this series is so reminicent of the 2007 Mavs vs. Warriors series. soooooooo many open shots being missed and turning into transition opportunities for the Magic, the way it happened with the Mavs missing open shots and Warriors getting more fastbreak opportunities.

[Ghazi]

I agree.

[Lebron4MVP]

the whole team needs to step up and hit their wide open freaking shots. this series is so reminicent of the 2007 Mavs vs. Warriors series. soooooooo many open shots being missed and turning into transition opportunities for the Magic, the way it happened with the Mavs missing open shots and Warriors getting more fastbreak opportunities.


Sadly Mo is our 2nd option. If he cant step up, then you are asking ALOT out of West to pick up the slack. Z has sucked and we dont have any other scoring bigman. The Bench is pathetic as it is.

[stretch]

i think if anything, this series has really proved just how good Lebron is, and if he wins the title, this might have been the most impressive season/title run by an individual leader in NBA history. his team is soooo bad, yet he has had them in title contention for several years now.

[Lebron4MVP]

i think if anything, this series has really proved just how good Lebron is, and if he wins the title, this might have been the most impressive season/title run by an individual leader in NBA history. his team is soooo bad, yet he has had them in title contention for several years now.


While I agree that Bron is amazing, the Cavs arent winning anything unless his supporting cast steps up in a HUGE way. 1 guy cant do it alone.

[The_Game]

just hope the refs don't decide the game....

[JustBlaze]

I wanna say Orlando wins this, but I just don't see 'Bron allowing his team to go down 3-1.

And to think the Magics would've been going for the sweep tonight had it not been for LeBron's heroics late in game 2.

[Muser]

I wanna say Orlando wins this, but I just don't see 'Bron allowing his team to go down 3-1.


LeBron has to go for something crazy like 80 if the support doesn't turn up again.

[hhml]

LeBron is indeed one, fantastic player. I truly believe Cavs will win game 4 and even up the series.

[Bukefal]

Go cleveland!!!!! :king

Btw, I miss vbookie lately?? Can we have some?? :toast

[TampaDude]

Go cleveland!!!!! :king

Btw, I miss vbookie lately?? Can we have some?? :toast

+1 vBookie!!!

[Ghazi]

i think if anything, this series has really proved just how good Lebron is, and if he wins the title, this might have been the most impressive season/title run by an individual leader in NBA history. his team is soooo bad, yet he has had them in title contention for several years now.

They're not that bad.

[DrHouse]

:lmao yea right stretch

[Ghazi]

Dirk's run in 2006 comes off as more impressive to me.

Defeated 4 hall of famers in Round 2 (big 3+ Pop)

another hall of famer in the WCF (Nash)

and perhaps 3-4 hall of famers in the Finals (Whistle, Riles, Shaq, Zo?)

THis w/ Jason Terry as the 2nd best player on the roster and Dampier as the starting 5.

[Morg1411]

Go Magic!

[Ghazi]

Oops forgot about the Glove too!

[Phonzie20]

Go Magic!

word

[bostonguy]

It comes down to if Lebron has help tonight. His desire and all will only do so much. If no one else is stepping up outside of Lebron, the Cavs simply arent winning game 4.

[IronMexican]

i think if anything, this series has really proved just how good Lebron is, and if he wins the title, this might have been the most impressive season/title run by an individual leader in NBA history. his team is soooo bad, yet he has had them in title contention for several years now.

You were boasting about that roster before the series. Aren't they better than the 2001 Lakers?


Edit: typo

[hhml]

The theme is Hope and Will Power. Magic looks to be the superior team here but if the T vs T match has shown us anything, it's that as long as there's a glimmer of hope nothing is impossible. Strong will is also a key.

Take the TvT game for example. Upmagic had the clear advantage and control early in the game but up against Flash (a Terran vs Terran specialist), he was the underdog. Flash managed to build up BCs and at one point looked like he pulled a comeback and was looking at a victory. His superior BC play gave him the upper hand and allowed him to regain control of the game. He was so close to winning but Upmagic somehow staged a miraculous comeback from the jaws of defeat and snatched the victory out of Flash's hand. This was the most epic of epic battles. One of the most, if not the most, unbelievably amazing game I have ever seen.

Just goes to show you that nothing is ever over until it is actually over. Fight to the end and never give up hope, because even that last glimmer of hope can change the outcome of a decisive war. That hope is the difference between winning and losing.

[Banzai]

Rp6-wG5LLqE

[Allanon]

Unfortunately, I think Orlando gets this one. Hope I'm wrong.

[redzero]

Let's go, Orlando. Do it for me.

If the Magic win, I'm moving to Orlando.

[Libri]

A technical already? :lol

[Soul]

Dwight!

[me15lo]

A technical already? :lol


wasnt that a def. 3 sec?

[hhml]

Mo looks like Kenyan.

Are all these guys in the NBA related? :lol

[Libri]

wasnt that a def. 3 sec?

yes

[Libri]

Lebron dunk.

[me15lo]

a lay up in front of howard? :lol

[hhml]

A cleanly officiated game so far. A rarity in the NBA these days.

[baseline bum]

Nice work backing up your guarantee, Mo!

[Libri]

Howard with 11 points

[baseline bum]

I can't believe Orlando is only up 3 with the way Cleveland's looking.

[baseline bum]

Cleveland is damn lucky.

[hhml]

That is one nasty cut. It's amazing how an elbow can make that kind of a cut.

[hhml]

That was a bad call.

[timtonymanu]

Magic cant hit shit.

[hhml]

Well played by Pietrus. Nice of Lebron to help him up too.

[hhml]

I have a feeling these guys will meet up after the game and go out for a nice, hot cup of tea.

[me15lo]

I have a feeling these guys will meet up after the game and go out for a nice, hot cup of tea.

mo wont join them though

[ffadicted]

Are we about to witness a Magical Choke? :depressed

[hhml]

Orlando is so dangerous with that many 3 pt shooters.

[hhml]

Well, this game has been a snooze fest thus far.

[Pablo Escobar]

are all those asshats wearing lebrons shoes

[peskypesky]

where the fuck is everyone?

and btw, Turkey Glue is pretty damn good for a 6'10" PG.

[endrity]

Turkoglu is playing really well, can't believe the Spurs gave up on the guy after one year. Add it to the Scola and Howard mistakes.

[Libri]

Gortat Dunk!

[lefty]

Lewis sucks tonight

[024]

pietrus sure has a low bball iq...:wakeup

[peskypesky]

Turkoglu is playing really well, can't believe the Spurs gave up on the guy after one year. Add it to the Scola and Howard mistakes.

exactly. and it wasn't like he played bad that whole year. he was good in the regular season but had a bad playoffs. you give up on a proven player because of that? fucking idiotic.

[hhml]

If the Cavs don't make it to the Finals, they can blame it on Delonte's ugly hair.

[timtonymanu]

goddamnit Anthony Johnson!

[endrity]

he had one bad series, the lakers, that was it. If you think of what the Spurs could have had right now... they would be mentioned with the Bulls and the 60s Lakers as the greatest dynasties ever.

[lefty]

Lewis sucks tonight
This

[Libri]

Cleveland takes the lead.

[peskypesky]

exactly. and it wasn't like he played bad that whole year. he was good in the regular season but had a bad playoffs. you give up on a proven player because of that? fucking idiotic.

well actually, now that i lookd at his stats, he didn't have a good regular season with the Spurs....but still, the FO should have given him a little more time to integrate into the system.

[Capt Bringdown]

Turkoglu is playing really well, can't believe the Spurs gave up on the guy after one year. Add it to the Scola and Howard mistakes.

Hair-trigger judgement and decision.

[peskypesky]

he had one bad series, the lakers, that was it. If you think of what the Spurs could have had right now... they would be mentioned with the Bulls and the 60s Lakers as the greatest dynasties ever.

true that

[hhml]

Basket: A game of runs.

The moral of the story? Run, run, run.

[hhml]

That is a nice song.

[portpower_11]

9:0 run for Cavs.

This is not new for Magic, they were outscored by 11 pts late first quarter too.

Magic need to reduce TOs and attack the rim.

BTW, Lewis and Lee badly suck

[lefty]

Rescinded flagrant 5 on boobie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[portpower_11]

12:0 run and still counting

[timtonymanu]

Magic run
Cavs run
Magic run
Cavs run


whoever's lucky enough to get the last run in the 4th will win the game.

[lefty]

Wow LBJ

[resistanze]

Can you imagine if LeBron posts up more often?

[Jacko]

I predict the Cavs run won't last.

The Magic just need to remember what got them the lead and be patient on offense.

[pauls931]

I agree with teh commentators, the refs have made dhow afraid to play defense.

[Libri]

Gibson with a 3.

[Jacko]

The Magic will likely turn it up another notch in the 2nd half. D12 needs to be more aggressive defensively.

[lefty]

I predict the Cavs run won't last.

The Magic just need to remember what got them the lead and be patient on offense.

That's the problem

[lefty]

The Magic will likely turn it up another notch in the 2nd half. D12 needs to be more aggressive defensively.
But....but.........he's the "DPOY"

[hhml]

Cavs are on their way to evening up the series.

[Libri]

Lewis needs to get going.

[resistanze]

:lmao Gibson's SO happy!

[lefty]

Nice defensive rebounding Orlando :td

[pauls931]

orlando can't win if they continue to let cleveland's role players score like mad. I think the officiating in the last game has fucked up Orlando's D.

[timtonymanu]

Pathetic 2nd qtr by the Magic.

[hhml]

Mo has the face of a baby.

[Jacko]

Wow the Magic are not playing with any sense of urgency.

They look like the Lakers IMHO.

The problem for the Cavs is their role players won't keep up this kind of shooting for another half. And the Magic will cut back into the lead.

[Capt Bringdown]

No team in this playoffs is really that impressive.

[tso & lo Cavfanatic]

No team in this playoffs is really that impressive.
Orlando is.

[Jacko]

CB is right, nobody has really impressed me thus far.

That should be a good thing for the fans though, no blowouts really.

[Allanon]

The Cavs can win this one...c'mon LeBron!

[tso & lo Cavfanatic]

The Cavs can win this one...c'mon LeBron!
A lakers fan wants Cavs to win? Are you afraid of Magic or what?

[ffadicted]

Enough play, time to step up and show your championship caliber Orlando.
It's do-or-die time. No way the Magic win a best of three without HC advantage against the Cavs.

[TheMACHINE]

A lakers fan wants Cavs to win? Are you afraid of Magic or what?

We all want the easier team. Go Cavs!

[peskypesky]

i think these 2 conference finals are some of the most exciting series i've ever watched and i think all the teams are playing with passion.

[Allanon]

A lakers fan wants Cavs to win? Are you afraid of Magic or what?

Shit...you've seen the Magic shoot lights out on 3's and Dwight's too strong for Pau and Bynum. I don't like the Lakers chances versus Magic at all.

I hope the Cavs take care of the Magic for the Lakers.

[hhml]

And here's another run.

[redzero]

Rafer Alston for Chris Paul.

[Pistons < Spurs]

nice start to the half!

[ffadicted]

ALSTOOOOOOOOOOOON! 7 quick ones on the King :king

[me15lo]

there you go!

[Allanon]

Got damn it Cavs, get a stop.

[peskypesky]

i think Lakers would have trouble with either the Cavs or the Magic....but they might not even get past Denver.

[Libri]

Alston has come out firing.

[Ghazi]

SKIP

to

my Lou

[lefty]

Alston has come out firing.

That sentence could have 2 significations

[pauls931]

man, turg is sucking ass this game.

[pauls931]

man, what the hell is wrong with orlando's d? You can swap amare in for dhow right now and not notice a thing.

[Libri]

Where is the Magic defense? ahh

[ffadicted]

I just puked a little in my mouth from Dwight's disgusting defense

[lefty]

I just puked a little in my mouth from Dwight's disgusting defense
DPOY :lmao

[lefty]

Hedo scored?

It's not the 4th quarter yet ?????

[pauls931]

seriously I think Amare is watching this thinking "and they say I suck on D!"

[MambaJuice2408]

The phantom calls to get Mo Williams off is ridiculous.

WAY TO GO STERN!

[lefty]

seriously I think Amare is watching this thinking "and they say I suck on D!"
:lmao

[NewJerSpur]

Thank god for Rafer, or things my be way out of hand.

[lefty]

Wooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Pistons < Spurs]

Glass!!!!!!

[portpower_11]

I thought Magic play defence.

I am wrong, they look like mavs.

The will lose HC advantage one hour later

[peskypesky]

i really like Howard, but he's got to stop throwing those elbows. reminds me of asshole Karl Malone.

[ffadicted]

Rafer called bank, I heard it

[lefty]

Glass!!!!!!
ummm.....water please...err I mean Rafer

[peskypesky]

2 pt game. yes!

[lefty]

LMAO Hedo, great D

[lefty]

Rafer WTF

[Libri]

That sentence could have 2 significations

Are you referring to his legal problems? :lol

[NewJerSpur]

Magic are making some sloppy passes.

[peskypesky]

Howard is not having a good night.

[hhml]

Why is the crowd booing? That was a foul.

[ffadicted]

Rafer got cocky lol... but I'll forgive the Magic savior tonight

[lefty]

D122222222222

[portpower_11]

West, Mo, Gibson, everyone can score at their will on Magic

Without Alston's play, this game probably has been over

[Pistons < Spurs]

Oh C'mon........

[ffadicted]

Attaboy big mouth Dwight

[peskypesky]

why isn't Turkey Glue shooting over Delonte? he has about 11 inches on him.

[Libri]

Tech on Howard for taunting.

[lefty]

You've got to be kidding me

[NewJerSpur]

Damn nice play by Dwight...Anderson showing what he's good for, lol.

[peskypesky]

that shouldn't be a T. come on.

[lefty]

Suspended?

Fuck that shit

[Spursfan092120]

fuckin bullshit to get a tech like that.

[peskypesky]

refs helping Lebron YET AGAIN.

[Pistons < Spurs]

the league had better rescind that T on Howard.


Nice 'BullShit' chant going on!

[Spursfan092120]

Suspended?

Fuck that shit
Not yet...gotta get one more.

[pauls931]

looks like the kids get to learn a new chant tonight.

[peskypesky]

it should be rescinded. it fucking better be.

[hhml]

I don't agree with that T. That wasn't much of a taunt. He's just showing some emotion after a great play.

[Spursfan092120]

the league had better rescind that T on Howard.


Nice 'BullShit' chant going on!
better be rescinded.

[lefty]

I hope they rescind it

Anderson should be suspended :flipoff

[TheProfessor]

NBA should rescind that one.

[Hank the Tank]

A lot of players give that same look after making a dunk over someone...in fact, Lebron does it more than most. He flexes his muscles and gives that smug look...shitty T.

[peskypesky]

one question. where the fuck is Rashard Lewis?

[lefty]

Not yet...gotta get one more.
Really?

I thought the 6th T led to a suspension

[NewJerSpur]

Gotta' hope the Cavs keep bricking.

[portpower_11]

Lewis and Hedo have to stand up.

I can not expect that Alston plays good in the whole H2

[lefty]

one question. where the fuck is Rashard Lewis?
Probably trying to reproduce game 3 on his PS3

[TheProfessor]

Ridiculous shot.

[hhml]

Come on Ben Wallace, you've gotta take that shot. They gave you an open 3.

[portpower_11]

one question. where the fuck is Rashard Lewis?

Lewis, Hedo, Lee all disappear

[ffadicted]

Magic falling apart after those two Techs.... fuck

[Jacko]

The fix is in :)

[Pistons < Spurs]

Pietrus time!!!!

[lefty]

Woooooooooo33333333333

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The officiating is a fucking joke.

Fuck the league. That T on Howard was a joke.

[NewJerSpur]

33333333333333333333itrus!!

[Spursfan092120]

Fucking no call on Lebron's shove..that's pretty fucked up.

[lefty]

Suns D >>>>>>>>>>> Magic D

[peskypesky]

Hedo hasn't disappeared

[Spursfan092120]

Pietrus would be one hell of a San Antonio Spur. :)

[Jacko]

I have yet to see a worse T than the one they gave Dwight. Seriously, that was the worst call of the playoffs.

[Libri]

Shaq

[lefty]

Shaq wants to come back with the Magic

[Spursfan092120]

Shaq Daddy back in Orlando? lol

[NewJerSpur]

why isn't Turkey Glue shooting over Delonte? he has about 11 inches on him.

Been asking the same thing all series.

[Spursfan092120]

I have yet to see a worse T than the one they gave Dwight. Seriously, that was the worst call of the playoffs.
It'll get rescinded.

[lefty]

Super D Magic !!!! :tu

[peskypesky]

i think it's pretty damn clear that the refs have orders from Stern to get Lebron into the next round

[portpower_11]

Hedo hasn't disappeared


He's pretty good.

But Magic need more offensive support (more score) from him to take this one

[lefty]

Can Varejao's mom rescind his birth ?

[Jacko]

:lmao

This game is just too predictable.

The Magic are not going to win tonight. The refs will make sure of it. In fact, that T on Howard is not even close to the worse call you are going to see tonight.

[peskypesky]

I have yet to see a worse T than the one they gave Dwight. Seriously, that was the worst call of the playoffs.

you never saw the one Tim Duncan got for laughing on the bench?

[Spursfan092120]

i think it's pretty damn clear that the refs have orders from Stern to get Lebron into the next round
Cleveland will win this game....count on it. :):):):)

[Libri]

21 points for Alston

[Spursfan092120]

Cleveland's got this...no doubt about it. :):):):)

[peskypesky]

Lebron vs Rafer

who wins?

hmmm

[ffadicted]

Magic's defense has bee shit all night.
They're streaky shooting and Rafer Alston are keeping them in the game

[NewJerSpur]

Nice shots LeBron, lol.

[lefty]

4th quarter



It's Hedooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peskypesky]

i think the Magic can still get this. if just one other player catches fire, they win. c'mon Rashard!

[portpower_11]

Woo...

Alston!

[Spursfan092120]

Magic's defense has bee shit all night.
They're streaky shooting and Rafer Alston are keeping them in the game
Skip to My Lou is turning out to be a GREAT last minute addition to Orlando...will he battle Jameer for the starting spot next year?

[Jacko]

The Magic just need one lockdown defensive quarter to win this.

The Cavs need to keep up their hot shooting and pray the refs continue to bail them out the way they have.

I'd seriously be scared if I was a ref in this game. They keep this up and the fans will start taking matters into their own hands. I've seen this shit happen first hand and it's definitely a line the NBA does not want to cross.

[Spursfan092120]

i think the Magic can still get this. if just one other player catches fire, they win. c'mon Rashard!
Nope..Cleveland is going to blow them away in the 4th...win by 30.. :):):):)

[NewJerSpur]

This is Rafer's game to win/lose.

[pauls931]

dhow is in Rasheed Wallace land. I saw rasheed get a tech for looking at a ref once when he was in portland. Refs are going 0 tolerance on him.

[Spursfan092120]

This is Rafer's game to win/lose.
Wow..I don't think anyone's ever said that....ever...

[Ghazi]

Skip to My Lou is turning out to be a GREAT last minute addition to Orlando...will he battle Jameer for the starting spot next year?

No, Jameer's much better

[Spursfan092120]

dhow is in Rasheed Wallace land. I saw rasheed get a tech for looking at a ref once when he was in portland. Refs are going 0 tolerance on him.
I'm sure he'll get the T rescinded.

[NewJerSpur]

i think the Magic can still get this. if just one other player catches fire, they win. c'mon Rashard!

This is where their mental fortitude will be put to the test. Time to close this thing out.

[ffadicted]

Nope..Cleveland is going to blow them away in the 4th...win by 30.. :):):):)

Sounds like a reasonable cavs playoff 4th quarter with Stern in charge
:):):):):)

[Jacko]

I think the NBA is purposefully keeping this ref situation the way it is to draw attention to the NBA. It gives people something to talk about and as long as it's not seriously outrageous people will continue to watch.

[NewJerSpur]

Wow..I don't think anyone's ever said that....ever...

:lol

[portpower_11]

Magic needs to play some defence

They also need Lewis back to the game.

So far, Lewis and Lee have played like shit.

[NewJerSpur]

Good job not settling on the 3 Pietrus.

[Spursfan092120]

Sounds like a reasonable cavs playoff 4th quarter with Stern in charge
:):):):):)
shhh...trying the jinx. :):):):) Cleveland's gonna blow them away.

[hhml]

That's a good hard foul by West.

[Spursfan092120]

No, Jameer's much better
I don't know man..you can't just completely disregard what Rafer's done.

[NewJerSpur]

Dman, even Wally's struggling, LOL.

[Spursfan092120]

2 early fouls in the 4th for Cleveland. :)
Cleveland will still blow them out. :):):):)

[peskypesky]

that ball movement was fucking SICK!

[Libri]

good passing

[Hank the Tank]

who the fuck was guarding alston??? haha.

[hhml]

No one can stop Rafer.

[NewJerSpur]

Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer!!!!!!!!!

[Spursfan092120]

Wow...they keep forgetting about Skip.

[peskypesky]

Alston>Jordan

[portpower_11]

Wow, MP!

He has been playing great during this series!

He is a Posy-type player, probably even better

[Spursfan092120]

Cleveland will still win. :):):)

[Libri]

Cleveland forgot about Alston. haha

[peskypesky]

just think, if Magic and Lakers meet in the Finals, we'll have a Rafer vs a raper.

[ffadicted]

Everybody in the spurs for Rafer Alston please

[Spursfan092120]

What are they bitching about? He still missed...and Orlando had the rebound...could have been less than a second anyway.

[peskypesky]

Lewis at last!!

[Spursfan092120]

Everybody in the spurs for Rafer Alston please
:rolleyes

[peskypesky]

that 3 woulda been huge

[portpower_11]

I don't know man..you can't just completely disregard what Rafer's done.


Rafter deserve all credit.

But Jamer is easily the most efficent scorer in Magic team

[peskypesky]

the Magic D has finally shown up!

[redzero]

Pietrus is the sex.

[me15lo]

my king my king, where u at?
:lol

[peskypesky]

Magic have the momentum and the crowd. Cavs have the refs. Who wins?

[Jacko]

The game is not over yet.

Still way too much time left on the clock.

ORL needs to push this lead out while the Cavs are bricking shots.

[NewJerSpur]

When Wally is struggling from the field, you know you're in trouble, LOL.

[peskypesky]

:rolleyes

that chick in black in your signature shaking her ass is driving me fucking crazy!!

[Hank the Tank]

my king my king, where u at?
:lol

b-b-but he has no help...:(

[portpower_11]

While Lewis and Lee are down, Magic get huge lift from Rafer and MP

I wish that Lewis can hit a bit more shots

[ffadicted]

Lebron shoots 16 FTs in the final 3 minutes to steal back home court

[hhml]

If both the Lakers and Cavs don't make it to the finals, Lebron should just come join the Lakers. He and Kobe can take gigantic pay cuts and join forces to win the 'ship.

:hat

[NewJerSpur]

While Lewis and Lee are down, Magic get huge lift from Rafer and MP

I wish that Lewis can hit a bit more shots

4th quarter usually = Hedo/Lewis time.

[TimDunkem]

All I see are screen and rolls, and one-on-one basketball being played by Cleveland. :sleep

[peskypesky]

Fuck YEAH!!!!

[Libri]

Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

[NewJerSpur]

Courtney 333333333333333333333333

[Hank the Tank]

motherfuckin Lee...man i wish we he dropped down to us somehow.

[hhml]

Uh oh, spaghettios. Cavs are in trouble if they don't stop the run.

[pauls931]

lebron is going to get 20 fts here.

[Trainwreck2100]

fffffffaacemask guy

[peskypesky]

If both the Lakers and Cavs don't make it to the finals, Lebron should just come join the Lakers. He and Kobe can take gigantic pay cuts and join forces to win the 'ship.

:hat

keep dreaming

[Darthkiller]

damn , it was a decently reffed game. now it looks like the refs are trying to help james again.

[Jacko]

Bad pass by the King.

[peskypesky]

lebron is going to get 20 fts here.

and he'll make 8 of them

[ginobme]

wow, that block from behind was a foul last game

[peskypesky]

still a lot of time

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Cavs are done where is the Coach of the year?

[resistanze]

:lmao @ CLE scrubs whenever they're losing.

[ffadicted]

Lee's game totally reminds me of Hamilton.
The mask just makes the similarities scary close