Stone Oak.

[TheWriter]

Drove through Stone Oak earlier today (about 3:00) and I haven't been through there in about a year and a half.

Must say I love that freakin' area.

Some Obso's I made:


Loved the density of the community.

Can't wait for the moment the South Texas Medical Center is being challenged by the ever growing Stone Oak Medical Center.

Saw a ton of homes/subdivisions that I didn't see a year and a half ago.

Hated the generic looking ones near the Mormon Temple.

That damn Temple still isn't finished yet. lol

I can see why Washington Mutual wants to put a regional office in the MCI building in Stone Oak.

Saw over a dozen Illinois license plates. I heard Stone Oak had a large population of people from Chicago.

Saw 7 red cursive California license plates. Surprised actually.

I did not like what I saw coming down the last Stone Oak Parkway hill before hitting 281, what I saw was the hillside across 281 completely stripped of any vegetation and a bunch of bulldozers and construction workers building homes. I love the growth but did they have to strip all the green? Hopefully they replace a majority of it. Who knows though.

I made a comment last time I drove SOPwky, that the huge medians were soon going to have to be made much smaller in order to accommodate all the growth.

Most of the huge medians on Stone Oak Parkway have been but in half and the street is being widened.

Doesn't Bruce live in the Stone Oak area?

Meet a very attractive girl at the Jason's Deli in Sonterra Park.

I want to live in Stone Oak.

Or Shavno Park. Or The Dominon. Or Alamo Heights. Or Bandera. Or Medical Center. lol


Good day all.

[KEDA]

Bruce, Malik, Devin and a few coaches live there.

I see them alot when they are in town.

[exstatic]

:lmao

[TheWriter]

Bruce, Malik, Devin and a few coaches live there.

I see them a lot when they are in town.

I thought Malik lives in Stone Oak, but when I did a Bexar County Appraisal search of his name, a home on the far northeast side (between 281 and Bulverde Rd) showed up. Didn't know Devin lived there.

Here's some freeway info on 281 past 1604 and what is in store for it:

The five-stack 281/1604 Interchange:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/TimManuParker/281_1604_int.png (http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/h_imgs/281_1604_int.jpg)
Was a long term project but now that it will be a toll interchange along with most of north 1604 being toll road, construction will start within '07 and '08.


Current Expansion of 281 from Sonterra Parkway to Stone Oak Parkway:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/TimManuParker/us281map.bmp (http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/h_imgs/us281const.gif)
Sonterra will be an overpass then 281 becomes a "highway" with the following streets up until Stone Oak being underpasses.


Entire 281 Expansion map:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/TimManuParker/us281n.bmp (http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/h_imgs/us281n_exp.jpg)


Entire 281 Expansion map Legend:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/TimManuParker/us281.bmp (http://home.att.net/~texhwyman/h_imgs/us281n_exp_l2.jpg)
What essentially will happen is Freeway 281 will eventually be upgraded 7 more miles and end at FM 306 which is the Comal/Blanco County line.

[Kori Ellis]

Devin doesn't exactly live in Stone Oak.

[Kori Ellis]

We used to live near Stone Oak (1604 and Evans). We looked at houses in Stone Oak and it's a nice area, but it's not that awesome. The areas off 10, North of 1604 (and I don't mean The Dominion) are much nicer.

[TheWriter]

We used to live near Stone Oak (1604 and Evans). We looked at houses in Stone Oak and it's a nice area, but it's not that awesome. The areas off 10, North of 1604 (and I don't mean The Dominion) are much nicer.

No doubt.

I like the Shavano Park area as well.

Also, The Golf Club of Texas at Briggs Ranch off of 211 in far West Bexar county plans to build homes in the 400,000 - 6 million dollar range.

Wow... Another Dominion in the works?

[TheWriter]

Kori, you delete my petty immature rebuttal but not the instigators immature, petty and repetitive jaxass material.

What gives?

[Kori Ellis]

So you want me to go to the trouble of deleting all of it?

[Kori Ellis]

There is that better? I figured deleting the last message might give you two the hint to STFU!

[SpursWoman]

Malik's house is in Grey Stone...outside of 1604 off Blanco. :)

[TheWriter]

Blanco, there we go, not Bulverde Rd. I remember it was a B name.

[Spurgal]

I thought Malik lives in Stone Oak, but when I did a Bexar County Appraisal search of his name, a home on the far northeast side (between 281 and Bulverde Rd) showed up.

Some of Maliks' family live on Wysteria Way off of Bulverde & 281 as for Malik he still lives In Stone Oak...

[ChumpDumper]

Spurgal says the shrubbery is too high at Malik's house. She's had to go infrared.

[exstatic]

:lmao

[mookie2001]

urban sprawl

[1369]

Drove through Stone Oak earlier today (about 3:00) and I haven't been through there in about a year and a half.

Must say I love that freakin' area.

Some Obso's I made:

[list]
Loved the density of the community.

Can't wait for the moment the South Medical Center is being challenged by the ever growing Stone Oak Medical Center.



I live in Stone Oak and 1) the density sucks as the infrastructure can't handle the load it has now, and 2) when the medical center goes up the traffic will get worse.

[Shelly]

I live in Stone Oak and 1) the density sucks as the infrastructure can't handle the load it has now, and 2) when the medical center goes up the traffic will get worse.

That's what I don't like about that area. Next house for me will be in Helotes.

[KEDA]

For those who went to the GTG @ Kennedys, it was right next to Greystone, I refer it to the Stone Oak "area" there are a TON of very nice homes in and around this area, I see them almost every day!


The cars in the parking lot here at the store are VERY nice at times!

[alamo50]

Stone Oak is beautiful area to live, but JACK going on being too far away from everything San Antonio has to offer.

I did love it as my home away from home tough!

:spin

[2Blonde]

We have lived in the Stone Oak area for almost 5 years now and we love it. We will be moving further out 281 to Highway 46 by Smithson Valley High School in about a year and a half because we bought some land for our retirement home but we have been very happy in this area. We are on the Blanco/Wilderness Oak side, and yes the traffic does get bad sometimes but there are always shortcuts. The upsides to living here are that it is peaceful, beautiful views, a great place for kids and safe.

...2Blonde

[1369]

We are on the Blanco/Wilderness Oak side...2Blonde

Whaddya say neighbor? I live in the same area off Wilderness Oak.

[TheWriter]

The traffic is bad. But I saw a few roads being built (for retail purposes) and they're cutting those huge medians in half and adding more lanes.

[mookie2001]

urban sprawl

[sbsquared]

Hey, I live in Stone Oak and I have my house up for sale. Anybody interested?

BTW, both Tony and Manu live in Stone Oak. There have even been some Eva sightings at the HEB at 281 and Evans.

[Kori Ellis]

BTW, both Tony and Manu live in Stone Oak

Manu moved from Stone Oak to The Dominion.

[sbsquared]

I guess when he got that big contract last summer he decided to "move on up!"

[SpursWoman]

:lol

[mookie2001]

hey does anybody know if anyone drives any tahoes or suburbans in stone oak
?

[mookie2001]

how about yukons?

[sbsquared]

Many, many, many, many of all types of SUV's are driven in Stone Oak - usually with numerous decals on the back window declaring the athletic prowess of their progeny!!

[2Blonde]

:lol
How true..
I refuse to put those stickers on my car. And for the record I got rid of my SUV almost three years ago. I now drive a small car. A BMW. :p

...2Blonde

[KEDA]

I saw a Maserati Quattropolle at Stone Werks as I was leaving the store, badass ride

but I saw the baddest one of all today

Rolls Royce Phantom, all white, sickest thing I have ever seen!

[mookie2001]

the thing about urban sprawl is that the people that live there love to buy tahoes and suburbans and yukons, it is sicking, especially when they have no use for them at all
im all for having the right to drive what you want but why would you buy an useless, slow, ugly, gas guzzling machine that 80% of your neighbors own already
comformity at its worst

[Kori Ellis]

im all for having the right to drive what you want but why would you buy an useless, slow, ugly, gas guzzling machine that 80% of your neighbors own already

A lot of people buy SUV's because they are roomy when you have a lot of kids, equipment, etc.

What's the real issue for you, the gas-guzzling? Because you shouldn't care if it's ugly or their neighbors have one too.

[Shelly]

I don't care wtf you drive, just get out of my way.

[mookie2001]

8 out of 10 tahoes i see have a lone female driver, 50% of those talking on the cell phone, since i've noticed this, i look even more at the passenger/s and the numbers still are the same
try it out and see what number you get
the issue is the gas, we have to reduce our oil consumption, i cant scoff at others because i drive an 11 year old pickup with a 350 cub in 5.7 liter v8, and i almost cry when i go to the pump, this truck my dad gave me, and if i could afford it i would buy a nice gas sipping new car in a heart beat
the conformity is what its all about
you have the right to drive what you want, but you also must be responsible and be aware that others might see you as an asshole
its become a status symbol, to brag that you can afford it as your everyday driver
they used to have mini-vans, and stationwagons as the family car, now the dad buys a yukon and the mom drives an escalade

[TheWriter]

Yeah, shame on the mother of three buying a SUV.

She could so easily take her kids and their friends to the movies or to the store in a nice Insight or Prius.

Oh wait, no she can't.

Blame the auto manufactures for the smog and air problems. For the crappy mile per gallon. For the gas guzzling.

Manufactures are just now coming out with hybrid SUV’s. Just now. When they could have a long time ago.

I can see you being pissed at a single guy who buys a SUV to look cool. But a majority of people who buy SUV's buy them because they need the room.

[Shelly]

So what?

oops...you slipped in there, Writer.

Mookie, do you really think people give a shit that someone will think they're an asshole for what kinda of car they drive? And no, I don't drive an SUV.

[TheWriter]

the issue is the gas, we have to reduce our oil consumption,

How about we start looking to an alternative method, like fuel cells or electric or peanut oil.

Oil is not a renewable resource.

[AlamoSpursFan]

Last time I checked, this was still America and it is still legal to drive whatever the hell you want to.

[IX_Equilibrium]

In my opinion, Stone Oak is overcrowded and overpriced.

That's why I bought a house inside of Loop 1604. Bigger lots, more space between homes, and less expensive.

[MannyIsGod]

Personally, I'd buy a house out torwards Helotes for the same reason TX Equil just laid out. Bigger houses, same price.

I'm not going to get into SUVs in here anymore. As the gas price goes up, they are going to regret their stupid Expedition even more.

[AlamoSpursFan]

I thought you'd be buying out in Helotes to be closer to that brand new Wal-Mart.

:lol

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not going to get into SUVs in here anymore. As the gas price goes up, they are going to regret their stupid Expedition even more.

What kind of car should a family with 3 or 4 kids get?

[davi78239]

LOL on the Wal-Mart. Helotes is getting pretty big as well.

[Kori Ellis]

Next time we move, it's going be even further out than we live now. I want land. Helotes has some areas with good 2+ acre homesites. But we may even go further than that.

(So yes, you'll have to drive damn far for GTG's in a couple years.)

[MannyIsGod]

Dude, move out far, it's awesome out there.

How about a minivan Kori? Actually, I don't have a problem with certain people with their SUVs. A family with 3 kids that carries the kids around in one car with an SUV isn't a bad thing, because it's either that or more than one car.

But I'd wager that the percentage of SUVs on the road that have more than 1 passanger, or even 2, is small.

I've never seen any real and accurate information on that, but look into the SUVs you see on the road. How often do you see multple peopl in them? Not very often.

See, now you made me into a liar. I said I wasn't going to get into it and I did.

[Kori Ellis]

8 out of 10 tahoes i see have a lone female driver, 50% of those talking on the cell phone, since i've noticed this, i look even more at the passenger/s and the numbers still are the same
try it out and see what number you get


But I'd wager that the percentage of SUVs on the road that have more than 1 passanger, or even 2, is small.

Just because you guys see a woman driving an SUV with no kids in it doesn't mean that later in the day she doesn't have all 3 of her kids in their car with their soccer equipment. I think the majority of people who have SUV's need the room.

[MannyIsGod]

I see.

[TheWriter]

Kori, have you looked into Bandera or Boerne?

I drove out towards Bandera and the landscape is just gorgeous.

The hills are beyond beautiful.

Or maybe move out towards Medina Lake or even Canyon Lake.

I know a guy who moved his family from New Mexico to Bandera because of cheap land, the amount of land, the serene feel, and the beautiful landscape.

[SpursWoman]

I love that area, but the traffic is horrendous.



And the only thing I don't like about my car that would make me even consider an SUV is that I like to go camping and I can't even fit a freakin' normal size ice chest in the trunk, and if I could somehow manage to get it in there....forget things like clothes and other supplies.

But you-know-who has a big assin' truck, so I don't have that problem anymore. Now I just have to get him to go camping. :lol :)

[GoldToe]

I like older homes better. Not the new over priced ones where your neighbor can hear you break wind.
That area is way too crowded for me.
Give me the older neighborhoods where homes were built solid.
And it seems that the people who moved out north of 1604 have found that their area is becoming more "city" and less country.

[TheWriter]

I like older homes better. Not the new over priced ones where your neighbor can hear you break wind.

Alamo Height, King Williams, Monte Vista, Terrell Hills, Olmos Park, SouthTown.

No doubt.

[GoldToe]

Alamo Height, King Williams, Monte Vista, Terrell Hills, Olmos Park, SouthTown.

No doubt.

Much better built too. No doubt.

[3rdCoast]

And it seems that the people who moved out north of 1604 have found that their area is becoming more "city" and less country.

And for that reason, I am pondering a move to Floresville or Poth or even far east Texas. I am partial to a town out there called Kilgore. I got some family out there and I would love a small,country atmosphere.

[NameDropper]

It seems to me that every freakin' day I hear another ad from "Taylor Real Estate" about another "fantastic and beautiful development" in the hill country with fantastic views and only a short drive to the city.

[TheWriter]

And for that reason, I am pondering a move to Floresville or Poth or even far east Texas. I am partial to a town out there called Kilgore. I got some family out there and I would love a small,country atmosphere.

Why not move to Kerrville, Ingram, or Hondo?

If you move to far away, you'll miss the Spurs games. :smokin

[3rdCoast]

Not a bad idea...not bad at all. I like the way you think.

[TheWriter]

Kerrville isn't bad. Mostly populated by older retired people. It seems like a nice place.

Pictures I found:

Kerrville
http://www.innofthehills.com/images/golf_lg_2.jpg
http://www.kerrville-tx.net/collagec.jpg
http://www.kerrville-tx.net/golf-320c.jpg
http://www.innofthehills.com/images/golf_lg_1.jpg
http://www.innofthehills.com/images/hc_1_lg.jpg
http://www.innofthehills.com/images/hc_3_lg.jpg
http://www.innofthehills.com/images/around_6.jpg
http://www.kerrville-tx.net/franciscos-316c.jpg
http://www.kerrville-tx.net/riverslidec.jpg
http://www.innofthehills.com/images/conf_6.jpg
http://www.kerrville-tx.net/stonehenge-326c.jpg
http://kerrvilletexascvb.com/Waterfall-downtown.jpg
http://www.kerrvilletexas.cc/Inside%20Cailloux.jpg
http://www.symphonyofthehills.com/Herring%20Photos%20SOH%20Spr%202004/img_0114_full_600x400.jpg
http://www.kacckerrville.com/frontk3.jpg
http://www.kacckerrville.com/images/Gallery%20inside.jpg
http://www.comanchetrace.com/Food_Beverage/img16.jpg
http://www.comanchetrace.com/Food_Beverage/img15.jpg
http://www.comanchetrace.com/Food_Beverage/img18.jpg

[GoldToe]

Give it time.

[TheWriter]

Give it time.

Give what time?

Do you know how far Kerrville is from SA?

No real monster growth is occur any time soon. Not within the next 40-50 years.

Must of us will be dead by then. So quite worrying your life away about it.

[GoldToe]

Who's worried?

Put a sock in it.

[mookie2001]

imagine people that actually live in the city
poor scum
how do they do it
alot of them dont even have tahoes
where do these people play their golf?

[TheWriter]

Who's worried?

Put a sock in it.

You. You keep bringing it up.

[TheWriter]

imagine people that actually live in the city
poor scum
how do they do it
alot of them dont even have tahoes
where do these people play their golf?

http://www.innofthehills.com/images/golf_lg_1.jpg

Here.

But really, that qhole post was clever. It really was.

[Mark in Austin]

I did not like what I saw coming down the last Stone Oak Parkway hill before hitting 281, what I saw was the hillside across 281 completely stripped of any vegetation and a bunch of bulldozers and construction workers building homes. I love the growth but did they have to strip all the green? Hopefully they replace a majority of it. Who knows though.

The Developer claimed grandfathering status. (HB 1704) The City either didn't care, didn't have time, or felt they didn't have the legal basis to challenge the developer.

The bottom line is the more educated the public becomes on development issues, and the more determined the SA City Council becomes to hold developer's feet to the fire, the less and less this will happen. Even if the developer could legally do what it did, there are ways to encourage better development. For instance, if the developer knew that the result of clearcutting and regrading that site would mean that every other project of theirs that needs council action (for zoning, platting, or variances) for the next generation will be scruitinized, delayed, and more extensive conditions placed on the project in exchange for support, you wouldn't have shit like this happen.

And it is more than stripping the green. They changed the way the land works. Natural drainageways are gone. When I went out and looked at the site, the erosion and sedimentation controls were minimal and complete dogshit. Any rain event would result in sediment leaving the site (against EPA / TCEQ stormwater discharge guidelines) and silting up streams.

One solution that works well in Austin - in the more sensitive watersheds (anything over the aquifer recharge, contributing, or transition zones, for example) you are limited by City Code to a max of 4 feet of cut or fill on the site, in order to preserve the natural character of the land. Any more or less, and you have to apply for a variance that goes before the City's environmental board, then Planning and Zoning, and in some cases City Council too. This gives the City an opportunity to review what the developer wants to do, and in extreme instances like this one where the developer is completely in rape and pillage mode and refuses to revise the plan to a more reasonable design, they can deny the variance and keep shit like this from happening.

You have to have the political willpower to do it, though. If the developer can simply appeal to City Council and make a few key campain donations in exchange for the variance, you're fucked.

In Austin, there was basically a green revolution in 1992, when the SOS (Save Our Springs) Ordinance was passed in a Citywide election. It limited impervious cover (paving and buildings) in the most sensitive watersheds to 15%, and established a non-degradation water quality standard for runoff leaving the site. (There could be no net increase in pollutant levels in the runoff from pre-development conditions.) Any variances to this ordinance had to be granted by a supermajority of the councilmembers (6-1 or 7-0). The interesting thing was this was citizen-initiated. Every Councilmember who was up for election and didn't endorse the measure was voted out of office.

I don't think San Antonio as a city (or perhaps more percisely as a voting populace) will ever be this passionate about developemnt issues until a much higher percentage of the population has a college education. The higher the education level of the parents, the higher the income. Once a family income is sufficiently high enough that your primary concern isn't having enough money day to day to put food on the table and clothes on your kid's backs, then secondary issues like the environment or development standards get more attention. Until that happens though, COPS, MetroAlliance, and the HO/TPA will continue to dominate the political debate and frame issues before Council almost exclusivly in their terms. Other people and groups may show up and talk, but until there are the voting numbers behind them to get councilmembers' attention, it won't be very effective.

With that in mind, I think the best hope for San Antonio's future is the building and opening of the A&M campus on the South Side, and the continued expansion of UTSA's downtown and northside campuses. In the past, you had a vast majority of college-bound seniors leaving San Antonio to attend school in other cities. With more local choices, and greater capacity, this rate will trend closer to other major metropolitan areas, and more of San Antonio's best and brightest will stay in town. This translates to more college graduates staying in town post-graduation too.

[TheWriter]

It's not so much college education or money issues that are resulting in no aggression towards development laws.

It's the simple fact that the southside, eastside, and inner westside (not far west) have been ignored so long by the city, why should they care about the land in the northside?

Also, SA's city council used to be and might still be very CORRUPT.

[Mark in Austin]

It's not so much college education or money issues that are resulting in no aggression towards development laws.

It's the simple fact that the southside, eastside, and inner westside (not far west) have been ignored so long by the city, why should they care about the land in the northside?

Also, SA's city council used to be and might still be very CORRUPT.

I agree to a point, but trust me, as a professional who works in the field, the level of education has a direct impact on what issues a family deals with on a day-to-day basis.

It is why there is a concerted effort under way to focus on raising the levels of hispanic college graduates over the next 20 years in Central Texas. Hispanics will be the fastest growing demographic group, but have as a group the lowest High School graduation rate in the area and one of, if not the lowest College Degree ratesin the area.

You can directly link education, income, and economic vitality of a region. It is no coincidence that in areas with a higher level of education per capita, the development rules and environmental requirements are higher.


There is a general trend that the more attention people pay to councilmembers on a day to day basis, and the more attention that is focused on each decision or vote councilmembers make, the harder it becomes to buy and sell councilmembers or thier votes. The only way for people to pay more attention is to have more of the combination of interest and time to do so. Interest and time directly correlates to income and by extension education levels.

[JoeChalupa]

I concur.

[TheWriter]

No question.

But in terms of the city as a whole not being aggressive in terms of land development laws.

It's simple.

A. A lot fo the lower income areas of SA have been ignored. They worry about their own problems before what's happening in the northside.

B. A corrupt city council.

C. Hell, even the northsiders who live in the area of 400,000 dollar homes with their educated smarts don't give a crap about restrictions.

[TheWriter]

it used to be that if you lived outside loop410 you were living large :lol

now, if you live inside 1604 you are dogshit.

I know you say that in jest.

However, Elm Creek is the wealthest area of San Antonio. Wealthier than The Dominon.

Elm Creek is inside 1604 and outside 410.

Is Elm Creek off of Huebner or Wurzbach?

I think Huebner.

[Mark in Austin]

No question.

But in terms of the city as a whole not being aggressive in terms of land development laws.

It's simple.

A. A lot fo the lower income areas of SA have been ignored. They worry about their own problems before what's happening in the northside.

B. A corrupt city council.

C. Hell, even the northsiders who live in the area of 400,000 dollar homes with their educated smarts don't give a crap about restrictions.


Buddy, I don't have time to propery explain everything to you right now, (I have to go finish writing a Development Agreement between a city and my client) but in short responses:

A. Yes, lower income areas of SA have been ignored. But bringing a bookstore to the southside won't change anything. Per capita incomes have to rise. That won't happen until education levels rise, or growth restrictions and/or land prices on the north side encourage gentrification (not as likely given the current lack of land use restrictions on the nroth side). The Toyota plant will help a little; but a major University Campus on the south side will be an economic generator like no other. Not only will it employ staff that will want to be reasonably close to work, but it will pump out thousands of highly skilled, highly educated potential workers that that employers looking to locate or relocate place a premium on.

B. Corrpution works best with an ignorant, apathetic, or disptracted public. All of these things trend downward as education levels trend upward.

C. There is a different demographic that is evolving / emerging over the past decade or so in new growth areas (like Stone Oak) that would make it a closer vote even in Austin if the SOS Ordinance was on the ballot today instead of 1992. Basically, sprawl areas vote red. Compare Williamson and Travis Counties as a good example of this trend: Williamson is almost exclusively sprawl and commuters driving into Austin. Overwhelmingly Red. Travis, although it has a growing Sprawl percentage, is still not a majority sprawl county. Majority Blue. When you focus in on Austin, overwhelmingly blue. Sprawl Republicans almost always are against stricter development standards in general (typical thought pattern: restrictions make it less attractive for businesses, and therefore force me to pay more in property taxes [which have to go up in order to support the infrastructure costs associated with sprawl, but this connection is often not made]), but almost always want the development to happen as far away from their particular neighborhood as possible.

What business leaders in Austin (mixed Repub and Demo), and increasingly across more of cental Texas, have come to understand is that the natural beauty of the City - the Hill Country, the green space preserved for endangered species and water quality reasons, tree preservation, etc is in fact one of the big reasons, along with a highly skilled and educated population, that employers list as factors associated with relocating to the area. San Antonio's leaders haven't come to that conclusion yet. Or if they have, they lack the political muscle necessary to transform that knowledge into a vision for the City. I hope it happens though. San Antonio has amazing potential.

[MannyIsGod]

There are laws on the books put there by San Antonio to protect trees and the aquifer. However, as MIA pointed out, they are able to do what they want because of vested rights aka grandfathering.

I agree completely with you Mark. Untill the education level of this city rises, corporations will do what is best for their bottom line with little to no regard to what is best for the people of the city as whole. No one here even knows what vested rights are except a core group of activists and the engineering community. The candidate who leads the polls in the race for mayor down here would never be doing so if the people here cared enough about local politics to hold him accountable for the environmentaly shaddiness he has shown.

All the development you get so giddy over in this thread, it's all over some oft he most sensetive land in Bexar county. Yet, the city many times little to no power to enforce laws that are on the books because if the land was even in the most preliminary developmental stages when those laws were placed on the books, they are usually granted vested rights due to state laws.

The PGA village situation was brought on because Payne Dawson was able to get their client vested rights to the land they owned, which allowed the developer to hold the city hostage to the idea of building housing communites over very sensitive laws. Nevermind that the only reason they had those vested rights was due to a loophole placed into effect partialy by a member of the Dawson family.

By the time city council went back to close the loophole, many companies represented by Payne Dawson had already taken advantadge of the situation in order to get their vested rights and the ability to ingore the aquifer protection ordinences as well as the tree protection ordinence.

I'm no fan of urban sprawl. Especially when it's placed right over some of the most sensitive land we have.

[MannyIsGod]

Buddy, I don't have time to propery explain everything to you right now, (I have to go finish writing a Development Agreement between a city and my client) but in short responses:

A. Yes, lower income areas of SA have been ignored. But bringing a bookstore to the southside won't change anything. Per capita incomes have to rise. That won't happen until education levels rise, or growth restrictions and/or land prices on the north side encourage gentrification (not as likely given the current lack of land use restrictions on the nroth side). The Toyota plant will help a little; but a major University Campus on the south side will be an economic generator like no other. Not only will it employ staff that will want to be reasonably close to work, but it will pump out thousands of highly skilled, highly educated potential workers that that employers looking to locate or relocate place a premium on.

B. Corrpution works best with an ignorant, apathetic, or disptracted public. All of these things trend downward as education levels trend upward.

C. There is a different demographic that is evolving / emerging over the past decade or so in new growth areas that would make it a closer vote even in Austin if the SOS Ordinance was on the ballot today instead of 1992. Basically, sprawl areas vote red. Compare Williamson and Travis Counties as a good example of this trend: Williamson is almost exclusively sprawl and commuters driving into Austin. Overwhelmingly Red. Travis, although it has a growing Sprawl percentage, is still not a majority sprawl county. Majority Blue. When you focus in on Austin, overwhelmingly blue. Sprawl Republicans almost always are against stricter development standards in general (typical thought pattern: restrictions make it less attractive for businesses, and therefore force me to pay more in property taxes [which have to go up in order to support the infrastructure costs associated with sprawl, but this connection is often not made]), but almost always want the development to happen as far away from their particular neighborhood as possible.

What business leaders in Austin (mixed Repub and Demo), and increasingly across more of cental Texas, have come to understand is that the natural beauty of the City - the Hill Country, the green space preserved for endangered species and water quality reasons, tree preservation, etc is in fact one of the big reasons, along with a highly skilled and educated population, that employers list as factors associated with relocating to the area. San Antonio's leaders haven't come to that conclusion yet. Or if they have, they lack the political muscle necessary to transform that knowledge into a vision for the City. I hope it happens though. San Antonio has amazing potential.


The people have started to speak out some. While turnount being incredibly low, the results of a recent election defeating the locating of a new community college in the nursing field away from downtown or the east side when there were sites in both location that made logical sense is a good sign.

However, they have a long way to go.

I think you're right on the ball, Mark.

[Guru of Nothing]

Mookie2001 is right on target.

I'm down with urban sprawl hate.

Then again, Urban Sprawl is mighty convenient - and it's ALWAYS about convenience.

[TheWriter]

I was kidding, but Elm Creek wealthier than the Dominion :lol :lol :lol Inwood, Shavano Park, Iverness, Hollywood Park, Deerfield........are the shit inside 1604. my family has been a tile contractor for many of the new and older homes (60years) when I was growing up I worked in many of these neighborhoods. the Dominion, and Fair Oaks were the best.

my family did custom tile work for vinny del negro, alvin robertson, chuck person(inwood), george strait and drob(the dominion).

I'm dead serious.In terms of overall worth of its residents. Elm Creek is wealthier.

[TheWriter]

San Antonio has amazing potential.

Potential in what way?

Job growth?

SA has the highest job growth in Texas.

Lowest unemployment in Texas.

Population growth?

San Antonio's metro has gone from 1,324,749 in 1990 to 1,820,719 in 2002.

The city has gone from 9th to 8th.

What potential?

[Mark in Austin]

Manny, I think you're referring to Pape-Dawson. But they have been a "payne", no doubt about it.


the results of a recent election defeating the locating of a new community college in the nursing field away from downtown or the east side when there were sites in both location that made logical sense is a good sign.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, (and I didn't follow the election, so I'm not aware of all the pertinient facts) but wouldn't locating a nursing school downtown or on the east side be a good thing for those areas? Downtown needs more employers that aren't associated with tourism, and anything to help the east side I would think would be welcomed. The fact that these locations were specifically defeated (unless there was a correlating option for it to happen on the south side) doesn't really indicate a higher awareness of the issues to me.

I do have hope though. Seems the Helotes Wal-Mart has kicked things up a little. I hope, though, that most of the public's energy is focused and spent on toughening up the regulations and development code in general. That is really the key issue that developers are hoping gets overlooked in all of the hubub over one project. If all that happens is a fight over this particular site and user, then all that energy and time will have to be duplicated every time somebody tries to do something considered irresponsible and / or undesireable. It is unlikely that this opposition level is sustainable. There's just something about a Wal-Mart that people love to fight. New neighborhoods don't generate the same level of hatred and outcry. A good example: the massive destruction at Stone Oak parkway and 281 that Buddy originally mentioned will actually be much worse than the Wal-Mart environmentally (and I would argue aesthetically, too - but that's a question of taste, as opposed to science) for a number of reasons. One, it is a bigger site. Two, Wal-Mart now has some of the most stringent erosion and sedimentation controls in the country - much more strict than anything on the books in SA or Austin. The likelyhood and magnitude of sediment discharge on the Wal-Mart site if it ever goes under construction will be much less. Three, most of the eventual homeowners will fertilize their yards. Domestic (not farm) fertilizer runoff is one of the biggest sources of aquifer pollution.

And yet, the level of outcry is several orders of magnitude less for the neighborhood. If the energy is focused on improving the regs overall (which doesn't automatically mean add more - adjusting what's there now to actually work in the real world is a good first step) instead of just fighting Wal-Mart; there will actually be a legitimate legacy left behind from the activists that will effect a real change in how things develop, instead of just (at best) drive off a Wal-Mart.

[Mark in Austin]

Potential in what way?

Job growth?

SA has the highest job growth in Texas.

Lowest unemployment in Texas.

Population growth?

San Antonio's metro has gone from 1,324,749 in 1990 to 1,820,719 in 2002.

The city has gone from 9th to 8th.

What potential?


In short, the potential to transition from a primarily blue collar city and mentality (old economy) to a white color city and mentality (new ecomony). You quoted statistics; but growth, in and of itself, shouldn't be pointed to a sign of good things happening. Check out the growth in the Houston metro area over the past 20 years: no zoning or design standards has resulted in block after block looking exactly the same over a metro area much larger than San Antonio's. Except for the humidity and dirtiest air in the country, you could pretty much describe it as Anytown, USA.

Ona more personal level, the one thing to me that Austin lacks is a cultural identity. Besides a culture of live music / music appreciation and civic involvement, there really isn't anything that connects the City to its past. The Hispanic culture and Arts in San Antonio is a treasure I didn't appreciate until I left. The marriage of that culture with a highly educated Hispanic population will generate something very, very special, IMHO.

A good example of this is the UTSA College of Architecture. Once it moved downtown and really embraced the city, magical things started to happen. It is garnering national attention for some of the designs coming out of there - clearly influenced by Hispanic culture and themes - and at a frequency and level practically unheard of for such a young program. It isn't a coincidence that it has the highest percentage of hispanic architecture students of any major university in the country.

[TheWriter]

but growth, in and of itself, shouldn't be pointed to a sign of good things happening.

Oh no? Because people like moving to plkaces where good things aren't happening?

San Antonio economy is very diverise.

Are largest industry is Bio-sciences followed by Tourism.

The list goes something like this I believe:

Bio-sciences
Tourism
Telecommunications
Manufacturing
Information Technology
Logistics
Aerospace and Aviation

15 years ago, I don't think San Antonio had any fortune 500 companies. Now we have 6.

San Antonio has 4 billionaires.

The economy isn't too shabby.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/edd/industry_dev/index.asp

[TheWriter]

Some more reading on San Antonio's economy. These are very recent articles.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=67628&highlight=antonio

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=70199&highlight=antonio

[Mark in Austin]

Oh no? Because people like moving to plkaces where good things aren't happening?




Nothing like oversimplification to prove a point. People move to places where there are jobs. Over the next twenty to thirty years, the single most important factor for the health of the economy is the education level of the population. When you factor in projected growth by demographic, if the current graduation / college enrollment levels continue, there will overall be a significant LOWERING of the education level in the Texas workforce. And that will be a disaster, since education level is number one with a bullit on the checklist of things major employers look for when looking for new areas for their operations.

From an article posted on Skyscraper page:
San Antonio is also placing a real emphasis on developing its residents' skills and education, and that is attracting interest from outside companies, said Ramiro Cavazos, the city's economic development director.

"We are overcoming some of the traditional perception that San Antonio didn't have a strong emphasis on that," Cavazos said.

When it comes to economic development in the San Antonio and Austin region, education is the key to future growth, said Leo Sayavedra, vice chancellor for academic and student affairs for the Texas A&M System.

[TheWriter]

I never said that wasn't true.

I've said over and over that the city needs to completely fix the schools from the ground up. From pre-k to high school.

When people were crying about a book store (they still don't really have one) I said if all the demographics were in place, they'd have one, but they aren't.,

That education is key to getting those demographics.

I understand.

But you're speaking of San Antonio as some city in Mexico with crap for an economy and a work force of day laborers.

San Antonio is a city that has for the past 20 years been under achieving its full value. And that's due to bad leadership since Henry Cisneros left office as Mayor.

It's still impressive however, that through bad leadership, through under achieving, through all that, we've been able to grow at the rate we have. Imagine were this city would be had we achieved, hell even overachieved with a great educational system, fantastic leadership. But I see the problems turning around. I am excited about this year Mayor election.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, I think you're referring to Pape-Dawson. But they have been a "payne", no doubt about it.


Doh, yes, Pope Dawson. Freudian slip, perhaps?




Maybe I'm reading this wrong, (and I didn't follow the election, so I'm not aware of all the pertinient facts) but wouldn't locating a nursing school downtown or on the east side be a good thing for those areas? Downtown needs more employers that aren't associated with tourism, and anything to help the east side I would think would be welcomed. The fact that these locations were specifically defeated (unless there was a correlating option for it to happen on the south side) doesn't really indicate a higher awareness of the issues to me.

No no. The ACCD board ruled out both those locations, even though they have lots of benefits such as what you outlined in favor of a NW Medical Center location in order to persue a partnership with the UTHSC even though it would be more expensive and was arguebly equal to the other locations.

The board placed the NW location on a bond package that was voted down. The majority of the voting was based soley on the location of that school. Had they gone with an eastside or downtown location, it would have passed easily.




I do have hope though. Seems the Helotes Wal-Mart has kicked things up a little. I hope, though, that most of the public's energy is focused and spent on toughening up the regulations and development code in general. That is really the key issue that developers are hoping gets overlooked in all of the hubub over one project. If all that happens is a fight over this particular site and user, then all that energy and time will have to be duplicated every time somebody tries to do something considered irresponsible and / or undesireable. It is unlikely that this opposition level is sustainable. There's just something about a Wal-Mart that people love to fight. New neighborhoods don't generate the same level of hatred and outcry. A good example: the massive destruction at Stone Oak parkway and 281 that Buddy originally mentioned will actually be much worse than the Wal-Mart environmentally (and I would argue aesthetically, too - but that's a question of taste, as opposed to science) for a number of reasons. One, it is a bigger site. Two, Wal-Mart now has some of the most stringent erosion and sedimentation controls in the country - much more strict than anything on the books in SA or Austin. The likelyhood and magnitude of sediment discharge on the Wal-Mart site if it ever goes under construction will be much less. Three, most of the eventual homeowners will fertilize their yards. Domestic (not farm) fertilizer runoff is one of the biggest sources of aquifer pollution.

And yet, the level of outcry is several orders of magnitude less for the neighborhood. If the energy is focused on improving the regs overall (which doesn't automatically mean add more - adjusting what's there now to actually work in the real world is a good first step) instead of just fighting Wal-Mart; there will actually be a legitimate legacy left behind from the activists that will effect a real change in how things develop, instead of just (at best) drive off a Wal-Mart.

Well also, the people of Helotes have the resources to put together a fight against Wal Mart than other residents in the city.

However, I agree in large part, and I know there was some legislation put forth by a San Antonio rep in the state legislature regarding tougher laws on areas such as the recharge zone. I have failed to keep up with it however, and I don't know how much of a chance it has to pass.

The bottom line is that people don't care enough. They get giddy over having a new store or movie theater near them but they don't stop to think of the consequences of the new development, and they don't pay attention to legislation that is meant to do that thinking for them.

No, thats not going to change untill the people of this country take a step back and stop caring about gay marriage and the like, and focus on the politics in their own back yards.

[MannyIsGod]

I never said that wasn't true.

I've said over and over that the city needs to completely fix the schools from the ground up. From pre-k to high school.

When people were crying about a book store (they still don't really have one) I said if all the demographics were in place, they'd have one, but they aren't.,

That education is key to getting those demographics.

I understand.

But you're speaking of San Antonio as some city in Mexico with crap for an economy and a work force of day laborers.

San Antonio is a city that has for the past 20 years been under achieving its full value. And that's due to bad leadership since Henry Cisneros left office as Mayor.

It's still impressive however, that through bad leadership, through under achieving, through all that, we've been able to grow at the rate we have. Imagine were this city would be had we achieved, hell even overachieved with a great educational system, fantastic leadership. But I see the problems turning around. I am excited about this year Mayor election.

First of all, fixing the public schools is a state issue, not a city one. The vast majority of this city is a blue collar city. You can tout the science industry as a leader, but it means little when the overral percentage of the workers here are in blue collar jobs or low paying white collar service industry jobs. I don't know what the average San Antonio household income is, but it's much lower than most cities in the country, hence the low cost of living.

I don't know what you want and mean by great leadership. To get more of the development you crave, you need people like you have in office right now who cator to the big business they are in bed with. But if thats what you want, it doesn't make any sense to complain about coruption, because that is exactly what this type of leadership generates.

If you mean a leadership that puts the environment and the city itself before corporations, then you aren't going to have such a large volume of growth because the city will not be as friendly to corporations. It will put up environmental legislation and make it harder and more expensive for companies to come here.

What this city needs is more growth on the already developed but neglected sections of town. It needs revitalization of the poorer portions of the city, and that involves projects such as the proposed A&M school, not a new movie theater or book store out in Stone Oak.

[TheWriter]

What does an A&M college mean if all the high school students in the Southside are dropping out or not going to college?

The Mayor and city council need to concentrate more on education.

An A&M University isn’t going to fix the schools.

[Mark in Austin]

Manny,

Thanks for the clarification on the Nursing College vote and situation... makes more sense now.

[MannyIsGod]

What does an A&M college mean if all the high school students in the Southside are dropping out or not going to college?

The Mayor and city council need to concentrate more on education.

An A&M University isn’t going to fix the schools.

I suggest you stop thinking about city council and the mayor and start talking with your state representatives. Education is not a city matter, but a state one.

[TheWriter]

I suggest you stop thinking about city council and the mayor and start talking with your state representatives. Education is not a city matter, but a state one.

When it's a public school, it sure as hell is a city matter.

Quit being a retard.

[MannyIsGod]

When it's a public school, it sure as hell is a city matter.

Quit being a retard.

Look, I don't know what the hell your thinking, but city government has very little to say/do in public schools. School Boards answer to the state, the city has no jurisdiction or any other form of say so.

This retard obviously knows a bit more about it than you, but feel free to continue to disagree.

[travis2]

I know you say that in jest.

However, Elm Creek is the wealthest area of San Antonio. Wealthier than The Dominon.

Elm Creek is inside 1604 and outside 410.

Is Elm Creek off of Huebner or Wurzbach?

I think Huebner.

Wurzbach and Lockhill-Selma.

And on what do you base this claim?

[TheWriter]

Wurzbach and Lockhill-Selma.

And on what do you base this claim?


One example:


While the Dominion, Crown Ridge and Elm Creek, a gated community that Hall says has the highest average income in the city, help give District 8 a reputation for affluence


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/citycouncil/stories/MYSA121904.1H.arthall.137cba79.html

[travis2]

One example:




http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/citycouncil/stories/MYSA121904.1H.arthall.137cba79.html

OK...

Not proof, but also no reason to discount it.

[TheWriter]

OK...

Not proof, but also no reason to discount it.

Yeah, the city councilman for that district doesn't know what he's talking about.

Good job there kid.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm going to sit back,and watch travis kick your ass

[travis2]

I'm going to sit back,and watch travis kick your ass

Enjoy...

[TheWriter]

I'm going to sit back,and watch travis kick your ass

Kick my ass.

Yeah, like your "the city can't help with school" crap.

God.

[TheWriter]

Enjoy...

Oh wow, talk about a Ryu in the making.

[travis2]

Yeah, the city councilman for that district doesn't know what he's talking about.

Good job there kid.


Ummmmm...OK.

First, tell me where I made such a claim.

Second, tell me why a secondary (at minimum) source is by definition unimpeachable.

Third, regardless of (Second) above, tell me where I did in fact impeach that source.

All I did was make a neutral statement of fact. I accepted you at your word, but did not make the claim that the source you used was a perfect source.


Oh, and BTW...I'm probably older than you are. Definitely no "kid".

[TheWriter]

Yeah,


OK...

Not proof, but also no reason to discount it.

Just rings with genuine feeling.

How is District 8 city councilman, Art Hall, not going to know his shit?

He's not Manny.

I’ve read numerous times besides this recent article, on how Elm Creek is the wealthiest area of the city. I'm sorry that for whatever reason that is unacceptable to you.

I guess because you feel houses at The Dominion are nicer and more cock pleasing than the ones at Elm Creek.

Well bucko that just doesn't hold two coins in a rhino's ass.

Arlucas!

[TheWriter]

Oh, and BTW...I'm probably older than you are. Definitely no "kid".

Not familiar with condescension?

[MannyIsGod]

Ok, I have a question for you.

What does the city have in it's power, and keep in mind a budget, on what it can do for public schools that the state doesn't have authority over?

[travis2]

Yeah,



Just rings with genuine feeling.

How is District 8 city councilman, Art Hall, not going to know his shit?

He's not Manny.

I’ve read numerous times besides this recent article, on how Elm Creek is the wealthiest area of the city. I'm sorry that for whatever reason that is unacceptable to you.

I guess because you feel houses at The Dominion are nicer and more cock pleasing than the ones at Elm Creek.

Well bucko that just doesn't hold two coins in a rhino's ass.

Arlucas!

Well, gee whiz, it's kinda hard to ring with genuine feeling when it's a neutral statement...:rolleyes

And just because I refused to kneel down and kiss your @$$ doesn't mean I called you or anyone else a liar.

You need to review the basics of reading comprehension.

[travis2]

Not familiar with condescension?

Sure. Been accused of it many times, too. Just ask Manny :lol

I just refuse to make note of it from someone who has no standing to condescend to me. :angel

[TheWriter]

Ok, I have a question for you.

What does the city have in it's power, and keep in mind a budget, on what it can do for public schools that the state doesn't have authority over?

How about drawing attention to the serious lack of funding, teaching, etc that a lot ofschools are facing.

Yeah, the cty can't do that, just like a mother and father can't get Jesse Jackson to talk to a governer about a private matter. Huh?

[TheWriter]

Well, gee whiz, it's kinda hard to ring with genuine feeling when it's a neutral statement...:rolleyes

And just because I refused to kneel down and kiss your @$$ doesn't mean I called you or anyone else a liar.

You need to review the basics of reading comprehension.

You're ass was wrong and you're too proud to admit defeat.

That's cool, kid.

[MannyIsGod]

How about drawing attention to the serious lack of funding, teaching, etc that a lot ofschools are facing.

Yeah, the cty can't do that, just like a mother and father can't get Jesse Jackson to talk to a governer about a private matter. Huh?

Oh I see, you want city officials to be activists and forget about running the city.

You are so utterly clueless in this matter.

[TheWriter]

Oh I see, you want city officials to be activists and forget about running the city.

You are so utterly clueless in this matter.

Manny, good lord.

[MannyIsGod]

I work for an educational non profit, do you really think I'm not in the loop?

[TheWriter]

I work for an educational non profit, do you really think I'm not in the loop?

You work for tips valeting.

Someday you might just be the janitor at one of the schools were talking about.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't valet, I work for an education non profit. Dude, I tried to have a decent "debate" with you, and it's impossible, so I leave you to your concrete porn. Have fun.

[TheWriter]

So that wasn't you crying about Tim not tipping.

Oh wait, it was.

[MannyIsGod]

#1 No, it wasnt me crying about Tim tiping, I've never parked Tim's car, it was about Manu.

#2 That was actually quite a while ago.

[travis2]

You're ass was wrong and you're too proud to admit defeat.

That's cool, kid.

:lmao

It's much too early in the day to be drinking that heavily.

[IX_Equilibrium]

And for that reason, I am pondering a move to Floresville or Poth or even far east Texas. I am partial to a town out there called Kilgore. I got some family out there and I would love a small,country atmosphere.


I used to live in Longview, which is 20 minutes from Kilgore. I fucking hated it. That part of Texas sucks, in my opinion. Going from San Antonio to Kilgore would be like going from a 5 star hotel to a bed in a cancer ward.

But, each to his own.

[KEDA]

I used to live in Longview, which is 20 minutes from Kilgore. I fucking hated it. That part of Texas sucks, in my opinion. Going from San Antonio to Kilgore would be like going from a 5 star hotel to a bed in a cancer ward.

But, each to his own.


Oil Bowl is a grrrreeaaaatt place :rolleyes

I have bowled a few torunaments in the thriving metropolis of Longview.

The only good thing is that Shreveport and the casinos are about an hour and a half away!!!!

[IX_Equilibrium]

Oil Bowl is a grrrreeaaaatt place :rolleyes

I have bowled a few torunaments in the thriving metropolis of Longview.

The only good thing is that Shreveport and the casinos are about an hour and a half away!!!!


ughhhh...Shreveport is even worse.

They do have a couple of nice casinos though.

[Mark in Austin]

An article by the SABJ on the links between education level and income level. Saw this and thought it might as well get posted here.


San Antonio Business Journal - March 31, 2005

SA Business Journal Article (http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/03/28/daily33.html )



LATEST NEWS
San Antonio Business Journal - 4:02 PM CST Thursday
Lowering Texas' drop-out rate would boost wages, study says
The Alliance for Excellent Education released a study Thursday showing that wages in the state would increase by $404 million annually if Texas cut the student drop-out rate in half.

If those same students completed some postsecondary education, wages would double to $808 million annually. If those same students actually completed a bachelor's degree, wages would go up by $1.3 billion.

Currently, 32 percent of all Texas students drop out of high school.

High school drop-outs only earn $19,000 a year on average.

If those drop-outs completed high school, they could expect to earn $26,200 a year. A person with an associate's degree can expect to earn $33,400. With a bachelor's degree, the average annual salary jumps to $42,200; with a master's degree, $52,300; and with a doctoral degree, $70,700. Jobs requiring professional degrees, such as a doctor, lawyer or dentist, pay $81,500 on average.

The Alliance for Excellent Education is a Washington, D.C.-based policy, research and advocacy organization. It is funded, in part, by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

"There is an important connection between a state's high school graduation rate and its economic vitality," Alliance President Bob Wise says.

Officials with the organization argue that states must implement effective programs that promote high school graduation and postsecondary education.

"The gains realized include higher employment, better wages, and a healthier state economy," Wise adds.

[TheWriter]

The new Mormon temple they're building in Stone Oak.

http://www.sahelicopter.com/images/2005_04_16_2.jpg

http://www.sahelicopter.com/images/2005_04_16_3.jpg

These were taken on 3/10/04.

[Kori Ellis]

Is there a big Mormon population in San Antonio?

[TheWriter]

Much bigger Mormon population than Lubbock, which has one of the only 4 temples in Texas.

One in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Lubbock.

Weird, but yeah, Lubbock.

As for SA's mormon population.

From an article I found:


The number of Mormon adherents in the San Antonio area grew from 9,038 to 12,084, or 33.7 percent, from 1990 to 2000, according to the American Religion Data Archive.

The new temple is to serve approximately 45,250 church members in 69 counties in a district stretching from Waco to Brownsville. The district includes 11 stakes, which are analogous to Catholic dioceses. Four of those stakes are in San Antonio, which has 15,000 LDS members.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon102.html

[Faccia di Angelo]

The Temple is officially complete. I went to tour it yesterday during the Open House and its a very beautiful building.

[mookie2001]

imagine people that actually live in the city
poor scum
how do they do it
alot of them dont even have tahoes
where do these people play their golf?

i must admit that is my funniest post by far

[Useruser666]

Did you take these pics too writer? I bet this place isn't real. :lol

[SPARKY]

I have a question. If you aren't a developer (or plan to be one) why the fuck are you driving around San Antonio de Bexar and taking notes about every God damn thing?

Just curious.

[3rdCoast]

I have a question. If you aren't a developer (or plan to be one) why the fuck are you driving around San Antonio de Bexar and taking notes about every God damn thing?

Just curious.

:lol :lol :lol

[Mr Dio]

Is there a big Mormon population in San Antonio?

Ask PakiDan, the family that adopted & broght him to the US is Mormon. They are great people.

[SequSpur]

Stone Oak is for Queers.

[scott]

I drive an SUV just to piss off people environmentalist wackos like Manny.

[T Park]

I do the same thing scott, except its a diesel 1 ton pickup that I like to sit in parking lots, and eat on my lunch break.

Sit and idle.

DIE OZONE lmao....

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

According to Bush... there's no such thing as the green house effect.