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Darthkiller
05-28-2009, 11:45 AM
hmm, maybe that will get Stern to change it when the largest sport website in the world has had enough with his BS.

DrHouse
05-28-2009, 11:49 AM
Why would Stern change a thing?

He's got everyone talking about the refs which will only generate more interest in the NBA.

Any publicity is good publicity.

lefty
05-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Why would Stern change a thing?

He's got everyone talking about the refs which will only generate more interest in the NBA.

Any publicity is good publicity.
I agree

Stump
05-28-2009, 11:51 AM
I'm at work and can't access ESPN. Can anyone post the article here?

ambchang
05-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Bill Simmons call out the refs all the time, he does it every year.

Darthkiller
05-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Where Aging Doesn't Happen ...

Fifty-five years later, professional basketball is played by the greatest athletes in the world. They run like gazelles and jump like kangaroos. They are chiseled in ways that we cannot fathom. They are taller, faster, stronger and more coordinated than us. We have nothing in common with them. That's one of the reasons we like watching them. They are modern-day superheroes.

[+] EnlargeDwight Howard
AP Photo/Phelan EbenhackLet guys like Dwight Howard and LeBron James mix it up a little. Basketball is supposed to be a physical game.

In Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals, with one second to play and his Cavaliers trailing by 1, a 6-foot-9, 275-pound local kid from Akron bullied toward the basket like a tight end. His goal was to jump as high as he could, extend his hands 2 feet over the 10-foot rim, then catch a lob from 50 feet away that had to be perfectly thrown. When his path was cut off, he recalibrated his mission almost as a navigation system reroutes a car, darted away from the basket toward the top of the key, caught a pass coming from his left, turned toward the rim, took a split second to center his body, bounced off the balls of his feet, extended in the air, then arched a 24-foot shot over the extended fingers of a 6-foot-10 opponent from Turkey. Even as he released the shot, he was falling backward, so his momentum carried him toward the other basket. Somehow, the shot rattled home. And that's when LeBron James turned around, sought out his teammates and joyously hopped into their arms.

This was one of the bigger moments in recent NBA history: The time when our latest hope for "The Next Jordan" actually did something MJ would have done. Like so many other die-hards, I spent the next 24 hours rehashing the moment through phone calls and e-mails and texts. This wasn't about hype, or blowing things out of proportion, or racing to put the proper context in place before everything else. This was just a beautiful moment, one of those nights that made us remember why we waste so much time following sports.

Two nights later, Cleveland and Orlando played an unspeakably awful game that featured a whopping 58 fouls. All the momentum from Game 2 was gone. Here was the new NBA in its new age of unadulterated impurity: Teams hoisting bad 3-pointers, referees trying to "manage" the game and failing, players going one-on-five, stoppages again and again and again, free throws and more free throws, more stoppages, more mismanaging by the refs ... by the time it was over, I wanted to commit a flagrant one on myself. The two teams combined to attempt 96 2-point field goals, 43 3-pointers and a staggering 86 free throws. In other words, there were nearly nine free throws for every 10 2-point field goal attempts. Egads. The next night, Los Angeles and Denver combined to play a similarly brutal game: 113 2-point attempts, 55 3-pointers, 84 free throws. Yuck.

You might argue this happens every playoffs: we bitch about bad calls or choppy games and nothing ever changes. But this spring feels different for two reasons. First, the NBA can't seem to replenish its officiating ranks. 1937, 1939, 1943, 1944, 1947, 1948, 1950, 1951, 1951, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1955 ... those are the actual birth years of 13 current referees. In professional sports, athletes slip from the ages of 34 to 39 unless they extend their stay with PEDs. In the NBA, where officials are required to run or jog for 150 minutes and make split-second decisions on hundreds of plays, we're expected to believe that the aging process doesn't apply. And if you believe that, I have some Bernie Madoff stock tips for you.

Second, a league-wide objective to regulate physical play has inadvertently compromised a decent slice of competitive spirit. Come playoff time -- with teams kicking into a higher gear, with edginess from a long series inevitable, with desperation in the air -- the league seems more interested in constantly nipping things in the bud (even if there's nothing to nip) over letting these guys compete as human beings would.

I played hoops until I was 33 years old and my back gave out. The best thing about basketball -- really, the single best thing, what I miss over everything else combined -- is the interaction between players. I spent hundreds and hundreds of hours playing pickup in college; to this day, I can rattle off an extended list of everyone I loved playing with. Basketball is about connections. You connect with teammates, reach an advanced form of ESP with them, start moving in rhythm, and then it's magic. The more you play with someone, the better you know them. Same goes for opponents. Play with someone enough and you learn every head fake, every stutter step, everything. I played with my buddy Bish so many times in high school that we just started swallowing up each other's favored moves. That's basketball. It's like chess crossed with ballet.

Because of that, you search for any edge you can get. Maybe you piss off someone with a foul that's a little too hard. Maybe you mutter under your breath, "Can't stop me." Maybe you make a 20-footer and preen a little too long after. Maybe you swing an elbow after a rebound simply because the little pest on the other team has an annoying habit of reaching in and invading your personal space. Basketball resembles real life in that way: You coexist for as long as you can, you try to get along, but sometimes, it's impossible.

Here's the crucial wrinkle: It's rarely personal. You're only trying to win. If someone makes you angry, you get over it. I played basketball for three decades and remember going after only one person, during an intramural game in college, when someone nailed me too hard in a must-foul situation and I responded with a hard push in the face. Ten seconds later, we were fine. That's basketball. Put 10 competitive guys on the same court, have them bang bodies for an hour or two, and stuff WILL happen. It's inevitable. You might have some yelling and pointing and staring and everything else. Big deal. That's just testosterone doing its thing.

That testosterone fueled the NBA in its heyday. My favorite game ever (and not just because Boston won) was Game 4 of the 1984 Finals, the ultimate example of stacked teams battling with an extra edge. I rewatched it last summer and couldn't get over how it would have been wrecked today. McHale gets tossed for the Rambis clothesline. Bird gets T'd for nudging Cooper out of bounds. Kareem gets tossed for nearly slicing off Bird's wispy mustache with an elbow. Maxwell gets T'd for walking across the lane and choking himself after Worthy's missed free throw. On the crucial play of OT, when Magic gets switched onto Bird and they fight for position down low -- with Bird finally draining a turnaround over Magic's mug -- the officials would have called Magic for a foul before Bird's shot happened. Six of the iconic moments of the game ... ruined. Could they have competed as hard with the current rules? No.

My single favorite old-school moment of the past two decades happened at the end of Game 5 of the 1993 Eastern finals, when Chicago's Jordan, Pippen and Grant famously blocked four straight Charles Smith shots to clinch the victory in New York. Were the blocks clean? I don't know. Did the Knicks complain after? No. Because you had to watch the whole game -- that play didn't just happen. All four quarters were played with that same cutthroat intensity. Unlike today, the officials didn't change their minds midway through the game on what contact was acceptable. They didn't try to manage the game. They let the players decide what happened and intervened when necessary.

That's basketball. At least, that's what basketball should be.

The General Motors syndrome

The 1993 playoffs were the last time players were allowed to compete like that. Things already were changing; we just didn't know it yet. Blame the Bad Boy Pistons and Pat Riley's Knicks: Once the sport became faster and more athletic in the late '80s, teams used violence and intimidation to even the odds for themselves. Blame ESPN, the Internet and the 24-hour sports cycle for enabling any negative incident to be hashed, rehashed and re-rehashed a million katrillion times. Blame the NBA's arrogance: not just its failure to acknowledge any officiating woes until the Donaghy scandal (and even then the league just shoved a few Titanic deck chairs and called it a day), but its refusal to come up with a better infrastructure for evaluating and developing referees. And by "better," I mean, "competent."

Once the game sped up after various (and sorely needed) rule changes before the 2004-05 season, the officials struggled to handle the increased swiftness. The NBA's solution was to blame players and not officials: by discouraging contact and preventing juices from flowing, as the theory went, the games would be easier to control. The Artest melee in November 2004 became a catalyst of sorts, even if it was the perfect storm of crazy players and crazy fans and couldn't possibly be replicated. We've been paying for it ever since. The NBA's ensuing overreaction would be like the airline industry reacting to Chelsey "Sully" Sullenberger's Hudson River flight by refusing to allow any planes to take off with birds in the air.

The insinuation is pretty clear: The league believes its players cannot police themselves, that every movement and innate reaction during a contest played at the highest possible speed should somehow be controlled. Two great Game 4 examples from this week: Andrew Bynum's "flagrant" foul on Kenyon Martin (really, just one guy preventing a layup by slapping down on the ball with both hands), and Dwight Howard getting T'd up for reacting after Anderson Varejao fouled him from behind, wrapped him up and tried to prevent a shot, only Howard still made it falling backward, then turned and screamed in delight at Varejao. (This call was so bad the NBA rescinded the technical Wednesday.) You're not allowed to get excited after a great play? Really? You're not allowed to gain any kind of a mental edge over a guy you're trying to beat?

[+] EnlargeLeBron James
Fernando Medina/NBAE/Getty ImagesWhen in doubt, just put your head down and drive hard to the hole.

Might one drop of bad blood lead to the next Artest melee or Kermit Washington punch? In the NBA's mind, yes. The league believes its athletes -- who hail from a veritable melting pot of backgrounds and countries, by the way -- should behave like the "Dead Poets Society" kids without exception. Those players are expected to be exceedingly polite and articulate at all times. They are expected to perform in front of thousands without ever getting irritated. Each one of their mistakes is graded in black and white with no shades of gray. Step off the bench because your teammate just got decked, you miss a game. Clobber someone on a hard foul, and the referees review that foul and determine a penalty: slow-motion justice for an act that happened in the blink of an eye.

What I can't understand: We're seeing just as many whistles and flagrants and technicals as ever, but we're also seeing more long-range shooting now that so many teams have embraced corner 3s and the slash-and-kick game. Shouldn't the number of whistles be dropping with considerably fewer big guys battling for position? Colleague Ric Bucher believes NBA players have become too quick and too fast; since it's not as if the officials can improve their vision or instincts, they can't keep up, and that explains the current mess. I disagree. You can't tell me that Pippen, MJ, Mailman, Mr. Robinson, Worthy, Barkley and everyone else weren't as gifted as the current crew. There might be MORE good athletes now, but any difference is negated by the difference in play. Back in Jordan's day, you fought like hell to control the paint on both ends. Now? You run high screens, jack up 3s or tell your superstar to go one-on-five. That's it.

In that respect, Jordan was both the best and worst thing ever to happen to the league. You know the good things he did, but he also paved the way for a generation of one-on-one players who careen toward the basket in big moments, create some form of contact and hope officials will bail them out. With four seconds to play in Game 4 and his team trailing by 2, LeBron put his head down, dribbled as fast as he could and prayed Michael Pietrus would either bump him or trip him. If you watch the clip, he's moving so fast that it would have been humanly impossible for him to make a shot. That wasn't his goal. He wanted a call. And he got one. Their feet got tangled, LeBron lurched forward, and the refs bailed him out.

Dwyane Wade won a Finals for Miami that way. Three years later, LeBron nearly saved Cleveland's season that same way. It's a reprehensibly effective strategy that has nothing in common with anything we would ever see on a playground, an intramural game or a one-on-one battle in someone's backyard. I have been writing this column for 12 years dating back to my old Web site. Never have I received as many "I hate the referees" and "I hate watching these guys drive to the basket and get bailed out" and "Why can't they just let these guys play basketball and act like human beings?" e-mails as I did this spring.

The crucial difference between 2009 and the last few years? This spring featured the most talented group of playoff performers we've seen in 16 years, as well as two truly quirky teams coming into their own (Denver and Orlando). That makes it more personal for us. The league should be in great shape. We want it to work. All the pieces are in place. It's like going over to a friend's beautiful new house, walking in and being appalled by the shoddy wallpaper, ugly furniture and disgusting wooden floors.

Buddy, why won't you fix your house?

In this case, David Stern is the buddy. Today's games should be easier to call because they're more predictable. Teams run the same play five or six straight times down the stretch. For Cleveland, it's the high screen with Ilguaskas and James. For Boston, it's the high post play with Pierce. For the Lakers, it's the "Let's run the triangle for 42 minutes, then we'll just clear out for Kobe for the last six" offense. For Denver, it's either a high screen for Chauncey or a clear-out for Carmelo. Only the Magic (God bless them) seem interested in playing a style that doesn't revolve around the same guy hoisting 3s or barrelling toward the basket again and again.

You would think that seeing the same types of plays run again and again and again and again would be an advantage for referees. It's not. The question is why.

Time for a revolution

The NBA's failure to develop a new generation of decent referees might be its single biggest misfire of the past 20 years. You can't tell me that someone in their mid-50s or older has the same eyesight and reaction time as people 20-30 years younger. I can't think of another profession that works quite this way: No accountability, no repercussions, nothing. Whenever they make a crucial mistake -- such as all three refs missing J.R. Smith's jump ball violation that helped decide Game 2 last week -- the league invariably pulls its Frank Drebin routine and stands in front of a burning warehouse with fireworks exploding.

Please disperse! Nothing to see here! Please disperse!

Look, we still don't know everything that happened with Tim Donaghy, or whether his claims of playoff fixes in the past were valid. We still don't know why Donaghy called fellow referee Scott Foster hundreds of times before and after games. We still don't know why certain referees get assigned to certain games, why Bennett Salvatore always seems to be involved when a home team needs a win to change the momentum of a series, why Joey Crawford keeps getting assigned to Spurs games, why Danny Crawford keeps getting assigned to Mavericks games, why Bill Kennedy would get assigned to a big Celtics game only six weeks after an argument cost Doc Rivers money. We are told that referees don't matter, but that's the thing: They do.

[+] EnlargeDick Bavetta
Fernando Medina/NBAE/Getty ImagesHere's one of the stars of the 2009 playoffs in action.

Whenever TNT's Charles Barkley bitches about the officials, you can count on Kenny Smith to interject that they miss calls just like players miss shots. That's not the point. We shouldn't have a league where every game is officiated differently. Game 2 of the Bulls-Celtics series was beautiful to watch: 118-115, 146 2-pointers, 36 3s, 39 fouls, 54 free throws. The chippiness increased through the next four games, culminating in skittish officials ruining Game 7 because they were so desperate to manage it: 109-99, 114 2-pointers, 41 3s, 52 fouls, 75 free throws. Guess which game they'll show on ESPN Classic 20 years from now.

In a perfect world, officials should crack down on everything early and set the tone. From there, the players make necessary adjustments and then we're fine. We keep seeing the opposite pattern: lots of leeway early, then a catalyst that leads to a massive overreaction, followed by quick whistles and frustrated players the rest of the way. Game 3 of Orlando-Cleveland changed as soon as Anthony Johnson belted Mo Williams. Game 4 of LA-Denver changed as soon as Dahntay Jones tripped Kobe Bryant and the refs missed it, then Kobe flipped out to the point that the refs overreacted to everything that followed. This happens routinely: One aberrant moment shaping the next few hundred moments that come.

(Another underrated problem: The three referees are constantly in flux during games. Joey Crawford might end up under Cleveland's basket on one side and standing at midcourt on Orlando's side. Why does this matter? Because he calls everything tight. So if he's whistling everything by the book on one end, and his partner is letting things go on the other end, how are the players supposed to adjust to the constant ebbs and flows? They can't. This is why certain games become hopelessly choppy. God forbid all the refs called games by the rulebook without their own personal spin.)

Only when a championship gets swayed by a bad call will Team Stern admit there's a problem. (Hell, they won't even fire longtime referees.) You should have seen the number of e-mails I received during and after Game 3 of the Cavs series, with many readers making the same point: "I was out on the NBA until LeBron's shot, so I thought I'd give it another chance, and now I remember why I left in the first place." Great.

You could counter that doomsday routine with the league's healthy ratings and wealth of likable superstars -- and, by the way, both points are true -- but that doesn't mean things can't be better. Sadly, there isn't one simple solution like a shot clock this time. For instance, I love Jeff Van Gundy's idea of a "penalty box" (basically, banishing guys to their bench for a specific period of time). Say Rafer Alston slaps Eddie House again: instead of a one-game suspension, he'd be benched for the first half. Say Amare Stoudemire drifts off the bench because Steve Nash got whipped against the scorer's table and it's human instinct to protect a teammate: maybe he'd miss the first quarter of the next game. Maybe instead of double technicals for jawing, players would get sent off for five minutes to calm down. You get the drift.

A grander idea: Since the league is already throwing tens of millions behind self-serving ventures such as the WNBA, the D-League and the Redeem Team, why wouldn't it spend a few extra bucks on D-League officiating salaries in an attempt to lure better talent? Better yet, why not splurge on a development academy for younger officials? Shouldn't Team Stern be actively recruiting former players as future refs? Just this past year, we learned USA Basketball is building a $1.2 billion facility in The Middle of Nowhere, Arizona, that makes absolutely no practical sense whatsover unless you remember that longtime Stern crony Jerry Colangelo brokered the deal. So, we can have a $1.2 billion headquarters for USA Basketball, but we can't have a tiny NBA Referee Academy somewhere?

[+] EnlargeDahntay Jones/Kobe Bryant
Noah Graham/NBAE/Getty ImagesA defensive stopper like Dahntay Jones doesn't have much of a chance against a star like Kobe Bryant.

(The following is absolutely true: Last week, the NBA sent out a memo for its Development League Referee Tryout Camp, which is scheduled for June 19-21 in Los Angeles. Participants officiate two games with prospective D-League players and need a minimum of two years experience at the high school level or higher. Not only do the participants have to pay their own way to get there, but the NBA charges them a $550 fee that covers "lodging for two nights at the camp headquarters, transportation to and from the games, and a camp officiating jersey." YOU HAVE TO PAY TO TRY OUT! The NBA, where amazingly dumb happens.)

Finally, the logic behind "flagrant fouls" was that it was supposed to prevent ... (drumroll, please) ... flagrant fouls! Do you feel like that mission has been accomplished? Imagine your local police force telling you, "Since our crackdown on home robberies, home robberies have doubled in the past three years. We couldn't be happier!" Wouldn't you think they were insane? The "flagrant" rule not only slowed down games and made them more confusing; it certainly didn't curtail rough play, that's for sure. I'd rather see Van Gundy's penalty box idea. Make these guys feel repercussions with playing time instead of their already fat wallets.

The question remains: What's wrong with a few rough fouls? Isn't that an occupational hazard, no different than pitchers occasionally getting hit by line drives or defensemen getting nailed by slapshots? What's wrong with the occasional shoving match where nobody gets hurt, or the wild roundhouse right that never connects? What are we afraid of? Why does hockey condone fighting and baseball still allows dugouts and bullpens to empty during brawls, but the NBA doesn't allow glaring? If everyone else in society can butt heads from time to time, why can't NBA players? What makes them a higher form of being? There's no answer.

I don't see the NBA bending on that idealistic philosophy. The league is turning into a Disney movie come hell or high water. At the very least, we can pressure Team Stern to fix its shaky officiating. That's why I'm calling on the Internets. If you want a blog that gets traffic, start tracking bad playoff calls. Read the rulebook, familiarize yourself with it, watch each game with a fine-toothed comb and jot down every missed call and incorrect call. Chart how the fouls go up and down depending on the quarter. Chart the inconsistencies. Chart the number of calls, as well as the types of calls, that each referee makes and see if there's some sort of common theme. If you do a good job, I will send you traffic and so will everyone else. It's that easy.

One other thing to chart: Does the NBA "control" the outcomes of certain games by assigning referees with certain call patterns? For instance, the 2009 Celtics were the most physical team in the league. Let's say they were leading a series 3-2 and the NBA wanted a Game 7. Would it assign some of its most whistle-happy refs to that game? Or let's say the NBA needed Utah to pull out a must-win game at home. If it had one or two refs with a history of being intimidated by tough crowds, would it feed them to the wolves in Utah? So let's see this stuff on paper. We have hundreds of stat-obsessed lunatics tracking Jeter's defensive range or unearthing new ways to rip off VORP; we couldn't find a few of them to pick apart officials and assignments?

Remember this: The league will change only if it's embarrassed enough. Web sites tracking official statistics and playoff calls would embarrass them. YouTube clips edited to include every bad call from every playoff game would embarrass them. (For instance, an edited reel of questionable calls from Wednesday night's Game 5 would be eye-opening, especially Nene's last two fouls and the 73 times that 'Melo got hacked without a whistle.) Maybe this column will embarrass them. And if it does, I'm glad. A reader e-mailed after the 86-FT Game that he would rather watch a playoffs where players called their own fouls. At first glance, ridiculous. Within a few seconds, I started talking myself into it. By the three-minute mark, I was genuinely excited. No referees. The players policing themselves. Pickup rules for the playoffs. Hmmmmmm.

That's how bad things have gotten. An idea THAT dumb got my wheels spinning. The thing is, we don't need unfiltered cigarettes, Borsalino hats and a radical invention to save the league from itself this time. We need common sense. We need ideas. We need spinning wheels. We need the league to stop the Frank Drebin routine and start fixing things. Fifty-five years ago, fans had to revolt during an unwatchable playoffs for NBA owners to accept Danny Biasone's shot clock. I don't know what the tipping point will be this time around. I just know it's coming.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090528&sportCat=nba

Darthkiller
05-28-2009, 11:55 AM
Why would Stern change a thing?

He's got everyone talking about the refs which will only generate more interest in the NBA.

Any publicity is good publicity.

"Only when a championship gets swayed by a bad call will Team Stern admit there's a problem. (Hell, they won't even fire longtime referees.) You should have seen the number of e-mails I received during and after Game 3 of the Cavs series, with many readers making the same point: "I was out on the NBA until LeBron's shot, so I thought I'd give it another chance, and now I remember why I left in the first place." Great.
"

lefty
05-28-2009, 11:58 AM
Wait........



He doesn't mention the fact that the Lakers have got some help as well ?




Fuck Bill Simmons

TheMACHINE
05-28-2009, 12:07 PM
Wait........



He doesn't mention the fact that the Lakers have got some help as well ?




Fuck Bill Simmons

Altho the Lakers got some help..it wasnt so blatently obvious like it was in Game 3 ECF.

lefty
05-28-2009, 12:08 PM
Altho the Lakers got some help..it wasnt so blatently obvious like it was in Game 3 ECF.
True

And as I stated in my thread, even without the refs, Denver lose the series anyway

Dex
05-28-2009, 12:10 PM
Incredible article by Simmons. Long, but worth the read. Absolutely nailed it on the head.

iggypop123
05-28-2009, 12:10 PM
boston homer. who cares. its not like he was outraged at all the things rondo got away with

101A
05-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Wait........



He doesn't mention the fact that the Lakers have got some help as well ?




Fuck Bill Simmons



(For instance, an edited reel of questionable calls from Wednesday night's Game 5 would be eye-opening, especially Nene's last two fouls and the 73 times that 'Melo got hacked without a whistle.)

manufan10
05-28-2009, 12:29 PM
^Beat me to it.

manufan10
05-28-2009, 12:30 PM
boston homer. who cares. its not like he was outraged at all the things rondo got away with

Read the article. That's what he wants. Less foul calls, and more letting the players play.

poop
05-28-2009, 12:33 PM
where was all the outrage in 2006??????

im glad people are waking up to this and are beginning to admit it...but it sure would have been nice if at least someone came forward and admitted the refs hijacked the spurs-mavs WCF in '06.

that was one of the all-time reffing travesties, costing the spurs the title and a 3-peat, but no one ever seems to remember it. sad.

Dre_7
05-28-2009, 12:35 PM
It also seemed to me that LA got away with a lot of over the back fouls on Offensive rebounds when the defender had position.

TJastal
05-28-2009, 12:57 PM
It also seemed to me that LA got away with a lot of over the back fouls on Offensive rebounds when the defender had position.

Odom is the main culprit of this, I lost count of how many loose ball fouls he's committed on the nuggets already, but its at least 5 or 6 (and blatant).

When you can liberally shove your opponent in the back in order to get a rebound and nothing is called, that is a huge advantage.

Oh, and I heard a few interesting factoids

Dwight Howard, DPOY averaging 5.25 fouls during this series while the MVP Lebron James averages 3.0

Also, Howard led the league in FTApg per game is averaging 4 fewer FTApg than the regular season while Lebron averages 8.5 more FTApg than the regular season.

WTF??

TheMACHINE
05-28-2009, 01:14 PM
damn, you guys are crybabies, the fouls for the WCF has been going back and forth each game. The ECF, on the other hand, has always been in the Cavs favor. Damn..stop the whining...Game 6 in Denver will be all calls favored for the nugs.

Killakobe81
05-28-2009, 02:08 PM
The refs have sucked for years some games the Lakers get the calls others they don't Nene foul calls were weak but we didnt get calls in Denver either it evens out stop bitchin'
SPurs may have got shafted in WCF but DAllas got scewed in NBA Finals ...

REfs just need to be more consistent ...

Cry Havoc
05-28-2009, 02:20 PM
damn, you guys are crybabies, the fouls for the WCF has been going back and forth each game. The ECF, on the other hand, has always been in the Cavs favor. Damn..stop the whining...Game 6 in Denver will be all calls favored for the nugs.

And if the Nuggs had HCA, we'd be hearing all about how the Lakers are going to get the calls in game 6 but it doesn't matter because Game 7 is in Denver.

:wakeup

I read the whole article by Simmons. He couldn't be more right, but it's something every NBA fan has been saying for about 6-8 years now.

DrHouse
05-28-2009, 02:54 PM
I have no problems with people saying the NBA officiating is crap. It is.

But it is in no way MORE biased to the Lakers than any other team in this post season. That I refute.

InRareForm
05-28-2009, 03:43 PM
simmons is right.

LOL @ laker fans with the quick trigger of "oh lakers are the better team still, refs aside"

Ghazi
05-28-2009, 03:45 PM
2006 NBA Champions Dallas Mavericks

hhml
05-28-2009, 03:46 PM
I have no problems with people saying the NBA officiating is crap. It is.

But it is in no way MORE biased to the Lakers than any other team in this post season. That I refute.

I refute as well. But there are those who will refuse to refute.

Morg1411
05-28-2009, 03:46 PM
2006 NBA Champions Dallas Mavericks

I was waiting for you to jam this in. :lol

endrity
05-28-2009, 03:50 PM
Hollinger just drilled them as well.

And I think he explains the situation well. It's not that the officials are going out of their way to help the Lakers, but that if they call it tight it affects the Nuggets more than the Lakers. I do think though that Pau got the benefit of some really shady calls on Nene last night, who by the way is trying really hard on defense.

endrity
05-28-2009, 03:50 PM
Actually I like it that Simmons continuall takes shots at the Heat's 2006 title.

sribb43
05-28-2009, 03:55 PM
Actually I like it that Simmons continuall takes shots at the Heat's 2006 title.

As we all should

FromWayDowntown
05-28-2009, 03:56 PM
I think Simmons is right about the diminished quality of officiating. And, at the same time, I think what the NBA has tried to do in terms of finding younger officials to bring some new blood to the top-levels of officiating has been part of the cause of that reduction in quality.

The league has elevated officials like Scott Foster, Mark Wunderlich, and Monty McCutchen to crew chiefs at playoff time while reducing the roles of officials like Dick Bavetta and we seem to be headed towards a Finals that will likely see McCutchen and another youngish official join Foster, Wunderlich, and Tom Washington in the group I call Finals Officials -- the 12 officials who are "the best" and call the Finals. But I'm not sure that Foster, Wunderlich, McCutchen, Washington, Greg Willard, Bill Spooner and others in that younger group are as poised as they need to be to make the right call (objectively, not "right" in terms of what the league wants) in a big moment.

I do vehemently disagree with Simmons on the notion that game assignments are dictated by things like the need to extend a series or anything like that. There are fairly discernable patterns in the assignment of officials to games -- particularly in the later games of any series and even more particularly in the latter rounds of the playoffs. It would take amazing foresight for the league to account for particular situations that might happen down the road in creating the beginnings of the patterns that exist in the assignment of officials.

manufan10
05-28-2009, 03:57 PM
2006 NBA Champions Dallas Mavericks


http://workbench.cadenhead.org/media/dallas-mavericks-nba-champs-2006.jpg

TheMACHINE
05-28-2009, 03:59 PM
simmons is right.

LOL @ laker fans with the quick trigger of "oh lakers are the better team still, refs aside"

who is saying "oh lakers are the better team still, refs aside".

BRHornet45
05-28-2009, 04:00 PM
sons again .... it is ALL about the $$$$.

DPG21920
05-28-2009, 04:11 PM
No one knows how they assign the refs. They keep the option open to change and use discretion and they probably do it because if it was patterned or pre-determined, the refs would be open to influence such as bribery or fixing.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
05-28-2009, 04:31 PM
Whether or not Simmons is making a legitimate point which IMO he is, the way I read this article it translates to, "My team got eliminated, I'm bored, so I'm going to write an article in an attempt to put an asterisk next to whoever wins the title this year."

I like Simmons but he needs to work on not sounding like a crybaby Celtic homer.

GuerillaBlack
05-28-2009, 04:44 PM
sons again .... it is ALL about the $$$$.

Signature...girl's name...now! :toast

You have the best signatures.

BRHornet45
05-28-2009, 04:44 PM
the refs would be open to influence such as bribery or fixing.

son every pro sport has refs that are open to bribery and have been since way back in the day. its just that the NBA is much easier to detect the blatant favoritism and cheating for certain players/teams. $$$$ talks

BRHornet45
05-28-2009, 04:45 PM
Signature...girl's name...now! :toast

You have the best signatures.

rosa acosta

GuerillaBlack
05-28-2009, 04:48 PM
And again, with all this ref talk, it just proves that the NFL is the best run pro-league.

BRHornet45
05-28-2009, 04:49 PM
And again, with all this ref talk, it just proves that the NFL is the best run pro-league.

son the NBA has never really claimed to be a LEGIT basketball league so I guess we should cut them some slack ...the NBA is sports ENTERTAINMENT just like the WWE.

RedsLakers24
05-28-2009, 05:43 PM
son the NBA has never really claimed to be a LEGIT basketball league so I guess we should cut them some slack ...the NBA is sports ENTERTAINMENT just like the WWE.

Son ur saying this just cuz ur team cant get to the finals

pad300
05-28-2009, 05:50 PM
I have no problems with people saying the NBA officiating is crap. It is.

But it is in no way MORE biased to the Lakers than any other team in this post season. That I refute.

Refute? Refute would imply evidence, as opposed to anecdote, much like all the people who say the refereeing is biased in the Lakers favor...

The word you are looking for are "refuse to accept".

FromWayDowntown
05-28-2009, 06:13 PM
No one knows how they assign the refs. They keep the option open to change and use discretion and they probably do it because if it was patterned or pre-determined, the refs would be open to influence such as bribery or fixing.

Before a series starts, I couldn't tell you who will be assigned to a particular game, but once a round is in progress, I can make a pretty accurate guess that the officials for any given game will come from a relatively small group. It's pretty clear to me how the league generally assigns officials and after several years of studying it pretty closely, I'm sure it's not an arbitrary process and I'm confident that the assignments aren't made on a results-oriented, as the series progresses basis.

endrity
05-28-2009, 07:03 PM
Whether or not Simmons is making a legitimate point which IMO he is, the way I read this article it translates to, "My team got eliminated, I'm bored, so I'm going to write an article in an attempt to put an asterisk next to whoever wins the title this year."

I like Simmons but he needs to work on not sounding like a crybaby Celtic homer.

I don't know man, he has stated way before this began that he though the Celtics had no chance this year, yet he was proud of them and the way they were defending the title this year, and that having just won a title he was "playing with house money for the next 5 years".

He had convinced himself that LBJ was gonna scroll to the title this year (weren't we all?) so in a way him calling out the officials even when they have favoured the Cavs means it has been really bad.

endrity
05-28-2009, 07:04 PM
Before a series starts, I couldn't tell you who will be assigned to a particular game, but once a round is in progress, I can make a pretty accurate guess that the officials for any given game will come from a relatively small group. It's pretty clear to me how the league generally assigns officials and after several years of studying it pretty closely, I'm sure it's not an arbitrary process and I'm confident that the assignments aren't made on a results-oriented, as the series progresses basis.

Can you tell us more?

Ghazi
05-28-2009, 07:19 PM
As much as is said about the officiating, I think for the most part the best team usually wins a championship. The only exception in recent memory is, of course, 2006, when the Cheat cheated their way to a fluke bullshit championship.

ginobili's bald spot
05-28-2009, 07:22 PM
Whether or not Simmons is making a legitimate point which IMO he is, the way I read this article it translates to, "My team got eliminated, I'm bored, so I'm going to write an article in an attempt to put an asterisk next to whoever wins the title this year."

I like Simmons but he needs to work on not sounding like a crybaby Celtic homer.

^gets it.

tp2021
05-28-2009, 07:29 PM
I was waiting for you to jam this in.

Thats what she said

Halberto
05-28-2009, 07:39 PM
Why would Stern change a thing?

He's got everyone talking about the refs which will only generate more interest in the NBA.

Any publicity is good publicity.



You mean like the brawl in detroit?

carrao45
05-28-2009, 08:04 PM
As much as is said about the officiating, I think for the most part the best team usually wins a championship. The only exception in recent memory is, of course, 2006, when the Cheat cheated their way to a fluke bullshit championship.

Give it a rest. We all know that the Mavs would have won if the Refs hadnt helped D-Whistle so much. Everyone knows the Mavs should have a trophy for 2006. You dont have to say it in nearly every post you make. We all know that the Heat's 2006 Title is complete bullshit.

MAVS=2006 NBA CHAMPIONS.
We KNOW

DAF86
05-28-2009, 09:08 PM
The NBA should have challenge reviews like the NFL.

DAF86
05-28-2009, 09:09 PM
The NBA should have challenge reviews like the NFL.

Not for every single play but for really important ones like that 6th foul on Nene last night, that was a game decider.

FromWayDowntown
05-28-2009, 11:30 PM
Can you tell us more?

This (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3370034&postcount=56) is a post from back in Round 2 that spells out some of what I'm talking about:


I actually track playoff officiating assignments and have now for several years. I haven't ever picked up on some sort of arbitrary pattern of assignments that seem aimed at ensuring an outcome of any particular game.

Just look at the assignments so far in Round 2. Each of the 7 crew chiefs (Javie, Foster, J. Crawford, Wunderlich, Salvatore, D. Crawford, and McCutchen) has been assigned to one of the 7 games played after tonight. Danny Crawford worked Sunday in Denver, Foster and Wunderlich worked Monday in LA and Boston, Javie and McCutchen worked the games last night, and Joey Crawford and Salvatore are working the games tonight.

For the sake of completeness, Joey and Salvatore last worked on Sunday -- Game 7 in Atlanta. Javie and McCutchen, Tuesday's crew chiefs, last worked on Saturday -- Game 7 in Boston. Wunderlich worked the fame last Friday in Miami and Foster had worked last Thursday in Game 6 of Orlando/Philly; Danny Crawford had last worked last Tuesday in Game 5 of Houston/Portland.

Graphically, the crew chief assignments have looked like this over the last 8 days:

TUE -- Wunderlich, J. Crawford, McCutchen, D. Crawford
WED -- Bavetta, Javie
THU -- J. Crawford, Foster, Salvatore
FRI -- Wunderlich
SAT -- Javie (+McCutchen)
SUN -- J. Crawford (+Salvatore), D. Crawford
MON -- Wunderlich, Foster
TUE -- Javie (+Bavetta), McCutchen
WED -- Salvatore, J. Crawford

To me, that looks like a fairly regular rotation. In Round 2, everyone is working in rotation based mostly on when he worked last. In fact, I'd be willing to guess that the crew chief on Thursday night in Cleveland is likely to be Dan Crawford. If it's not him, it will be Wunderlich or Foster.

I'd even be willing to guess that the 2nd and 3rd officials in Cleveland tomorrow night will include at least one of: Sean Corbin, Marc Davis, Ron Garretson, and Derrick Stafford.

For whatever it's worth, the officials for that game in Cleveland (Thursday, 5/7/09) were Dan Crawford, Derrick Stafford, and Violet Palmer. I got 2 of the 3 right with just a short list of 7 potential officials (there were 27 officials still working at that point in time).

Louae
05-29-2009, 08:53 AM
Give it a rest. We all know that the Mavs would have won if the Refs hadnt helped D-Whistle so much. Everyone knows the Mavs should have a trophy for 2006. You dont have to say it in nearly every post you make. We all know that the Heat's 2006 Title is complete bullshit.

MAVS=2006 NBA CHAMPIONS.
We KNOW

It doesn't matter to me that the MAVS weren't the 2006 NBA Champions b/c they shouldn't have gotten there in the first place. D-Whistle could've been Dirk Nowitski with the calls he was getting the the Spurs-Mavs series.

To me, the Mavs going down like that was sweet justice.

manufan10
05-29-2009, 10:58 AM
Whether or not Simmons is making a legitimate point which IMO he is, the way I read this article it translates to, "My team got eliminated, I'm bored, so I'm going to write an article in an attempt to put an asterisk next to whoever wins the title this year."

I like Simmons but he needs to work on not sounding like a crybaby Celtic homer.

If you're a regular reader of the Sports Guy, you would know that he is often very critical of the officials. This isn't his first rant that the refs suck. I don't think his article has anything to do with the Celtics at all. What part of the article gave you that impression?

Spurlady
05-29-2009, 11:06 AM
It doesn't matter to me that the MAVS weren't the 2006 NBA Champions b/c they shouldn't have gotten there in the first place. D-Whistle could've been Dirk Nowitski with the calls he was getting the the Spurs-Mavs series.

To me, the Mavs going down like that was sweet justice.

Amen to that. Spurs got screwed in that series. Dirk got breathed on and would get a call. Anytime the Spurs had momentum going, the refs would get whistle happy and call the Spurs for a foul ruining the momentum.

Dex
05-29-2009, 11:53 AM
Not for every single play but for really important ones like that 6th foul on Nene last night, that was a game decider.

I think they should allow for one challenge per half. If the foul is overruled, the ball would be given back to the challenging team (or the correct call would be made, were it a foul situation). If the ruling stands, then the opposite team gets a technical free throw, maybe even two. This would keep teams from using it purposefully to stop momentum. If you're going to challenge a call, you better be damn sure you are correct, and it better be worth the chance to give up points.

Unfortunately, I don't think they'll ever put into play, for that very same reason. There are too many situations where teams could use it to just stop a break or kill momentum. Then again, any player or coach can just get a technical and do the same thing if they really want to (like last night when Van Gundy's technical kept a Williams trey off the board).

But Stern would NEVER want to question the credibility of his perfect refs.

DUNCANownsKOBE2
05-29-2009, 12:03 PM
If you're a regular reader of the Sports Guy, you would know that he is often very critical of the officials. This isn't his first rant that the refs suck. I don't think his article has anything to do with the Celtics at all. What part of the article gave you that impression?

No part of this article, but the fact he doesn't say shit when the Celtics get the benefit of the officials is what gives me that impression.

manufan10
05-29-2009, 12:05 PM
No part of this article, but the fact he doesn't say shit when the Celtics get the benefit of the officials is what gives me that impression.

:toast

poop
05-29-2009, 02:01 PM
It doesn't matter to me that the MAVS weren't the 2006 NBA Champions b/c they shouldn't have gotten there in the first place. D-Whistle could've been Dirk Nowitski with the calls he was getting the the Spurs-Mavs series.

To me, the Mavs going down like that was sweet justice.

EXACLTY. the mavs fans conveniently forget this part. they whine about wade but ignore the fact that they got past us in the same exact way with their own D(irk)-Whistle.

DPG21920
05-29-2009, 02:13 PM
There were some poorly officiated games in the Mavs/Spurs series, but imo the Mavs got royally screwed by the refs against the Heat.

Miami should have gotten more calls than the Mavs, but sometimes it was out of hand.