Debunking the Myth that Kobe is a Great Closer

[FoxPerez]

http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe

"In Game 2, as the seconds ticked away, Kobe attempted a game-winning shot as he was double-teamed. Despite several open teammates, he didn't defer to them and instead had his shot blocked.

In Game 3, Pau Gasol played superbly... And yet, in the final five minutes of Game 3, Gasol only had three significant touches: a steal that led to a Kobe Bryant missed layup, a trip to the free throw line where he made both, and another layup. Meanwhile, Kobe Bryant went 2-6 in the last five minutes with a big missed free throw, two missed three-pointers and a meaningless layup as time was expiring."

Full article (WITH PICTURES!) here: http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe (http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe)

Enjoy.

[TheMACHINE]

i refuse to click on another blog

[manufan10]

Are the people posting blogs just giving themselves self-promotion or what?? I've seen a lot of blog posts starting threads.

[sonic21]

Kobe game 1:
4th quarter? 1-5fg (doesn't really matter/blowout)
Kobe game 2:
4th quarter? 3 turnovers, 2-5fg
Kobe game 3:
misses 13 of his last 17 shots

[IronMexican]

Greatest of all time.

[JamStone]

Everyone already knows Kobe is overrated as a closer. Still a great player, still a great closer, just not as great as many have tried to claim over the last few years. He's still about as dangerous as they come at the end of games. But of course he's not immune to some bad performances in the clutch sometimes. Even these best players in the world fail more often than not when the game is on the line, even among the league's elite. We know Kobe's not Jesus. We know Kobe's not Jordan. This is not a new, ground breaking claim. Even most rational Laker fans know this.

[ambchang]

Kobe is so clutch, they should replace the logo with his silhouette.

[Ghazi]

His "clutch" stats over the past 5 years have been very poor

But those stats are skewed since for most players we're still dealing with 50-60 shot samples, creating a high amount of variance.

[2Cleva]

Everyone already knows Kobe is overrated as a closer. Still a great player, still a great closer, just not as great as many have tried to claim over the last few years. He's still about as dangerous as they come at the end of games. But of course he's not immune to some bad performances in the clutch sometimes. Even these best players in the world fail more often than not when the game is on the line, even among the league's elite. We know Kobe's not Jesus. We know Kobe's not Jordan. This is not a new, ground breaking claim. Even most rational Laker fans know this.

So Kobe's 3rd behind Jesus and MJ? Thats decent company.

[manufan10]

So Kobe's 3rd behind Jesus and MJ? Thats decent company.

:lol

I agree with JamStone. He's not perfect, so he's going to have games or series where he sucks at closing out games. He's still one of the guys that you want the ball in his hands in a close game. He's got ice water running through his veins. :toast

[DPG21920]

we know kobe's not jesus. We know kobe's not jordan. This is not a new, ground breaking claim. Even the 4 rational laker fans know this.

fify

[Allanon]

Kobe's not perfect but he's still probably the best Closer in the game right now. Kobe has more or less delivered for the last decade...you'd probably have to go way back to the 90's versus the Jazz to find a Kobe clutch moment as bad as yesterday's Game 3.

NBA GM Survey 08/09:

Which team will win NBA Finals 2009?
1. L.A. Lakers -- 46.2%
2. Boston -- 19.2%
3. New Orleans -- 11.5%
4. Houston -- 7.7%
San Antonio -- 7.7%
Others receiving votes: Detroit, Orlando

Which player in the NBA would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?
1. Kobe Bryant -- 88.9%
Others receiving votes: Gilbert Arenas, LeBron James, Paul Pierce

[Ghazi]

Kobe's not perfect but he's still probably the best Closer in the game right now. Kobe has more or less delivered for the last decade...you'd probably have to go way back to the 90's versus the Jazz to find a Kobe clutch moment as bad as yesterday's Game 3.

NBA GM Survey 08/09:

Which team will win NBA Finals 2009?
1. L.A. Lakers -- 46.2%
2. Boston -- 19.2%
3. New Orleans -- 11.5%
4. Houston -- 7.7%
San Antonio -- 7.7%
Others receiving votes: Detroit, Orlando

Which player in the NBA would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?
1. Kobe Bryant -- 88.9%
Others receiving votes: Gilbert Arenas, LeBron James, Paul Pierce

Still cracks me up :lol

LOL BR hornet
lol 121-63

[DPG21920]

Eh, the vote just goes to show you how hyped someone can be in people's minds versus reality. That is why it is called a misconception. If most did not vote for him, than it would just be the truth and in line with actual statistical evidence.

[Ghazi]

In fairness, it does appear the GM's are vulnerable to hype too.

I mean, 11.5% for Hornets? A team with David West as its 2nd best player and Peja/Butler as the starting wings?

:lol

[Allanon]

In fairness, it does appear the GM's are vulnerable to hype too.

I mean, 11.5% for Hornets? A team with David West as its 2nd best player and Peja/Butler as the starting wings?

:lol

11% of GM's would be 3 guys so it's not too bad. If the GM's got sucked into the Kobe hype, that's 26 out of 30 GM's to get to 89%

[Ghazi]

yeah, true

This survey was for 26 GM's I believe based on the percentages

[urunobili]

Kobe>Hedo

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I've seen this episode. Jamie and Adam put a 24 jersey on Buster and put a remote control steering rig on an Aston Martin too see if it's possible for a human to jump a speeding car. Meanwhile the build team stays busy. Tory tastes the rectums of a variety of species to see if there are enough differences that a person can describe how someone's ass tastes. And Grant designs a robot that attempts to rape Kari.

For the big finish they test the C4 vs. Ego myth by seeing just how much of each it takes to blow up a dynasty.

[DPG21920]

Kobe is a great closer, but statistically there are guys who fare better. But Kobe has done it in big moments so those are magnified.

[lefty]

"Debunking the myth that Kobe is a great closer "

It's really simple; you just have to take the only "C" off that sentence

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Only a matter of time before Kori locks this thread. Anyone who has little to no posts and creates a thread where they post their blog is asking for it.

[Allanon]

"Debunking the myth that Kobe is a great closer "

It's really simple; you just have to take the only "C" off that sentence

It took me a couple of seconds to get that :lol

[Ghazi]

"Debunking the myth that Kobe is a great closer "

It's really simple; you just have to take the only "C" off that sentence

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

[FoxPerez]

Last I checked, the regular season doesn't matter. It's the Finals that counts. And in the 2 Finals where he was the alpha dog, he hasn't played well, particularly down the stretch.

And if I were a coach, I'd design a play for him to PASS the ball because he has three guys collapse on his when he drives to the bucket...

Except he DOESN'T pass. That's the problem.

http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe

[DPG21920]

Kori is usually cool as long as you are not spamming by starting threads every where about the same subject and as long as you talk about appropriate subject matter.

[dirk4mvp]

I'd rather have Hedo or Raw Lew taking the last shot than Kobe.

[DPG21920]

I'd rather have Hedo or Raw Lew taking the last shot than Kobe.

This is not the unpopular opinions thread Lebroski

[dirk4mvp]

This is not the unpopular opinions thread Lebroski

Ok I'm headed over there now then.

Fishsticks.

[sonic21]

kobe is the better closer, he's just missing some shoots and FTs at the end of games, no big deal.

[DPG21920]

Ok I'm headed over there now then.

Fishsticks.

I will follow you over there my boys in boys.

[dirk4mvp]

I will follow you over there my boys in boys.

That was legit.

[IronMexican]

Anyways, I just finished a series vs the Spurs on NBA 2k9. It took me all 7 games.

They're Roster:
Mike Bibby
I forgot
Kevin Durant
Boris Diaw
Roy Hibbert

and 6th man was Gooden.

They took me to 7 games, but I prevailed.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kori is usually cool as long as you are not spamming by starting threads every where about the same subject and as long as you talk about appropriate subject matter.


I'm not saying Kori's mean about it or anything. If I created this site I wouldn't want people giving blogs their own thread when I could charge advertisors.

[DPG21920]

That was legit.

That was a rare slip up that got you lol'd at. Fishsticks was legit when I used it, but people blew it out of proportion, and made up the fact I used it a lot to divert the laughter.

Genius move. Touche.

[DPG21920]

I'm not saying Kori's mean about it or anything. If I created this site I wouldn't want people giving blogs their own thread when I could charge advertisors.

I know what you meant, I was just saying Kori has said she does not mind as long as it does not get out of hand.

[DPG21920]

Plus, what is the debate here? Is it who would you like to take the last shot or who would you like to make the last play? Neither in my book would be Kobe, although he is a great option.

I would have Melo for the shot and Lebron for the play.

If the argument is about a closer, meaning in closeout games, Kobe has been pretty damn good.

[Amaso]

People make too big of a deal about one bad game.

[IronMexican]

People make too big of a deal about one bad game.

Lol, you say this now. After game 1 or 3 of the Cavs series, you were saying "LeBron played a great 3 quarters".


And the fucking Mavs are beating me 1-0:ihit

[dirk4mvp]

People make too big of a deal about one bad game.

Kobe's getting off easy.



When it happened to Dirk, the media wanted his head.

[Amaso]

Lol, you say this now. After game 1 or 3 of the Cavs series, you were saying "LeBron played a great 3 quarters".




Whats your point? You're obviously still butt-hurt whenever I called you a dumb poster(lol) but I'm not saying Kobe played a good game last night. I'm just saying 1 sub-par performance didn't ruin Jordan's rep, just how 1 bad performance by Lebron or Kobe doesn't diminish their reps.

[IronMexican]

Whats your point? You're obviously still butt-hurt whenever I called you a dumb poster(lol) but I'm not saying Kobe played a good game last night. I'm just saying 1 sub-par performance didn't ruin Jordan's rep, just how 1 bad performance by Lebron or Kobe doesn't diminish their reps.

I didn't get butt-hurt over you calling me a dumb poster. I just laugh at how much you suck off Kobe. He had a bad game, don't try and sugar coat it. You were saying some pretty stupid shit about Bron after he played below par in the 4th since he had like 40 that game.

[ambchang]

Whats your point? You're obviously still butt-hurt whenever I called you a dumb poster(lol) but I'm not saying Kobe played a good game last night. I'm just saying 1 sub-par performance didn't ruin Jordan's rep, just how 1 bad performance by Lebron or Kobe doesn't diminish their reps.

You are right, one bad game does not diminish Kobe's rep.
His disappearance in 2008 and 2004 finals, as well as refusing to shoot in a Game 7 did it for him.

[JamStone]

His disappearance in 2008 and 2004 finals, as well as refusing to shoot in a Game 7 did it for him.

I'm a Kobe fan so I admit bias but I do want to respond to this comment.

The 2008 and 2004 Finals and game 7 against Phoenix diminished Kobe's rep as a leader and go-to guy, but not as a "closer," which is the topic of the thread.

The second half of game 7 of that 2006 Phoenix series didn't prove he wasn't a great closer. It proved he was a whining, pouting little crybaby and a quitter. He was actually having a very good game before he decided to quit.

The 2004 NBA Finals didn't prove Kobe wasn't a great closer either. It proved he was a selfish egomaniac. There was only really one close game in those five Finals games, and Kobe actually did play really well and closed out the game great in that one close game (game 2).

In last year's NBA Finals, he wasn't great, but similar to the Detroit Finals, really only in game 4 was Kobe not a great closer. In the other games, the scores were either not close late in the fourth quarter or Kobe actually played well.

There's a lot to criticize about Kobe, including being over-hyped as a closer, but more pertinent criticisms involve his selfishness, his ego, and his failures as a team leader. Yes, he's still overrated as a closer. But, he's still a very, very good closer and his determination, mental approach, cold blooded attitude, and ability to maximize his skills late in close games have generally yielded positive results. He's not close to perfect at closing out games, but he's still currently one of the best closers in the league.

[FoxPerez]

http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe (http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe)

Kobe wasn't a good closer in the past and he's not a good one now. In the big moments, he's failed. He failed in the Denver series, but his team was able to advance. For the past two games he's failed in the big moments, but his team has carried him to a win in one of them. They're lucky to be up 2-1, and they're in trouble if he keeps playing like this.

http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe (http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe)

[TheMACHINE]

http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe (http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe)

Kobe wasn't a good closer in the past and he's not a good one now. In the big moments, he's failed. He failed in the Denver series, but his team was able to advance. For the past two games he's failed in the big moments, but his team has carried him to a win in one of them. They're lucky to be up 2-1, and they're in trouble if he keeps playing like this.

http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe (http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe)

can you link your blog again...i must have missed it

[MiamiHeat]

OP is right. It certainly is a myth.

Kobe is #1 in attempted clutch shots, but #4 in made clutch shots. Behind LeBron, Ray Ray, and someone else. Was either Melo or Vince Carter

[Findog]

Kobe is absolutely a closer, because I'll take him over just about anybody for who I want on my team for the final 6 minutes of a tight game. Now last shot of the game on a final possession? Kobe doesn't shoot so well in those situations, because he wants to be the hero. Teams know he's going to be taking the final shot and they can plan accordingly. In G2 when he got blocked by Hedo, he had Odom open in the corner and Ariza at the top of the key, and he still chose to drive right into the heart of the defense by himself.

I think his FG percentage is 25% on shots with less than 10 seconds to play to tie or go ahead. Carmelo is actually been the best at that over the past 5 years, and nobody calls him a closer. Kobe usually performs in a manner though that makes those kind of last-second shots unnecessary.

[DPG21920]

Findog, what the hell is your vote, your reason?

[Amaso]

I didn't get butt-hurt over you calling me a dumb poster. I just laugh at how much you suck off Kobe. He had a bad game, don't try and sugar coat it. You were saying some pretty stupid shit about Bron after he played below par in the 4th since he had like 40 that game.

When did I sugar-coat it? How is saying people make too big of a deal with 1 bad game sugar-coating? I'm acknowledging he didn't play well. :lol

[Gino]

I'm a Kobe fan so I admit bias but I do want to respond to this comment.

The 2008 and 2004 Finals and game 7 against Phoenix diminished Kobe's rep as a leader and go-to guy, but not as a "closer," which is the topic of the thread.

The second half of game 7 of that 2006 Phoenix series didn't prove he wasn't a great closer. It proved he was a whining, pouting little crybaby and a quitter. He was actually having a very good game before he decided to quit.

The 2004 NBA Finals didn't prove Kobe wasn't a great closer either. It proved he was a selfish egomaniac. There was only really one close game in those five Finals games, and Kobe actually did play really well and closed out the game great in that one close game (game 2).


In last year's NBA Finals, he wasn't great, but similar to the Detroit Finals, really only in game 4 was Kobe not a great closer. In the other games, the scores were either not close late in the fourth quarter or Kobe actually played well.

There's a lot to criticize about Kobe, including being over-hyped as a closer, but more pertinent criticisms involve his selfishness, his ego, and his failures as a team leader. Yes, he's still overrated as a closer. But, he's still a very, very good closer and his determination, mental approach, cold blooded attitude, and ability to maximize his skills late in close games have generally yielded positive results. He's not close to perfect at closing out games, but he's still currently one of the best closers in the league.

+1

All true.

I think some additional deserved criticisms include being a bad actor. The dude is the biggest phony Ive ever seen in sports.

[Gino]

Oh one more.

How about demanding to be traded in 07 after his team got curb-stomped.

Any self respecting fan base would tell the guy to take a hike. If Pierce did that I would demand they ship his ass out.

But Lakers fan sympathize with the guy who doesnt give a shit about them or that franchise and continue to worship him like pathetic assholes.

[FoxPerez]

For TheMachine: http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe (http://budurl.com/noCoffeeKobe)

There ya go, buddy!

[NewJerSpur]

I'd rather have Hedo or Raw Lew taking the last shot than Kobe.

I like it....could even flip it and cal him LewRaw.

Back to the topic at hand: Chokey Bryant missing those FT's was classic chokage....rare for that situation and not likely to be seen in the near future, but it certainly was nice to see.