Popovich: ‘I cannot envision trading‘ Ginobili

[Spurs Brazil]

By Buck Harvey on Jun 10, 09 06:06 PM
When Manu Ginobili flew back to San Antonio after the Beijing Olympics, Gregg Popovich was there to pick him up at the airport. Now Ginobili says he wouldn't be shocked if Popovich drives him back this summer to catch the next flight out of town.

Asked this week in Argentina about the possibility of being traded, Ginobili told a reporter there: "A year ago I thought this would be impossible, and today I believe there is a chance it could happen."

There's always a chance. "People get in trouble when they say never," Popovich said Wednesday. There could always be "a stupid offer" from another team, he said.



"But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading," Popovich said. "He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded."



(2008 Express-News file photo)

Ginobili also talked about the Spurs halting contract-extension discussions with him last summer after the Olympics. "I do not know what they want to do," he told an Argentine reporter.

I think Ginobili knows what the Spurs want to do. They want to see if he can make it through a season before they decide whether they want to pay him, or how much they want to pay him.

He's been a bargain for the Spurs on both of his San Antonio contracts, including the one that will pay him about $10 million next season. But even if Ginobili does well next year, how much money should the Spurs invest in someone who will be 33 years old in 2010?

A June, 2009 guess: They would offer a two-year deal near his current salary.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/buckharvey/2009/06/popovich-to-ginobili-relax-you.html

[Warlord23]

:tu

[timvp]

Since when did Buck Harvey start blogging? This is good news though because Harvey is the most connected person in the media that is still around ... by far. The more Harvey Spurs content, the better.

Regarding this blog post, it's not too surprising. Pop loves Manu. The only way Manu gets traded is if the Spurs suddenly have to begin a rebuilding effort. Winning a championship and trading Manu doesn't go hand in hand.

[Thompson]

I hope Manu gives the Spurs a bit of a break when it comes to his next contract. Especially considering how the last couple of years went.

[tmtcsc]

Since when did Buck Harvey start blogging? This is good news though because Harvey is the most connected person in the media that is still around ... by far. The more Harvey Spurs content, the better.

Regarding this blog post, it's not too surprising. Pop loves Manu. The only way Manu gets traded is if the Spurs suddenly have to begin a rebuilding effort. Winning a championship and trading Manu doesn't go hand in hand.

Nicely said. I'm still surprised at how many people don't understand what Manu means to this team. At his salary, he's a huge bargain.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

ducks just got fucking owned :lmao

[ducks]

not
cia pop
manu is as good gone

[ducks]

A June, 2009 guess: They would offer a two-year deal near his current salary.

if that is true
the spurs would be stupid
way overpaid

[SA210]

"But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading," Popovich said. "He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded."


:flag: :toast :downspin: :nope


I haven't been excited about something Pop said or did in a while. I hope we get back to SPURS basketball. Manu is coming back with a vengeance!


:ihit


:lobt2:

[ducks]

:flag: :toast :downspin: :nope


I haven't been excited about something Pop said or did in a while. I hope we get back to SPURS basketball. Manu is coming back with a vengeance!


:ihit


:lobt2:

he better take it easy if he is not traded tell the playoffs
otherwise he will be on the bench on the computer with facebook again

[MaNuMaNiAc]

he better take it easy if he is not traded tell the playoffs
otherwise he will be on the bench on the computer with facebook again

:lol you're pathetic

[ducks]

:lol you're pathetic

I am being realistic
my head is not buried in the sand like yours

[GSH]

The Spurs have managed to prove that sometimes nice guys do finish first. And I don't care how cornball it sounds, that has meant a lot to me as a fan. And Pop is right - Manu has been a huge part of the heart and soul of the team, and he has made the game fun to watch. He's also a guy who will appreciate someone taking a chance on him. I guarantee you, Manu will bleed Silver and Black for as long as he is here.

If he gets back to 100%, he's going to make some people eat their words, too. Bravo, Pop.

[ducks]

I do not care if the game is fun to watch
I take the wins and rings over that

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I am being realistic
my head is not buried in the sand like yours

GTFO! you're being an idiot. Being realistic means dealing with facts, not conjectures. Pop basically just told you to STFU. Pay attention

[ducks]

pop speaks with forked tongue to the media
if you follow the spurs you know that

[MaNuMaNiAc]

pop speaks with forked tongue to the media
if you follow the spurs you know that

what are you? his fucking translator? seriously, you can't be this thick.

[GSH]

I do not care if the game is fun to watch
I take the wins and rings over that

I'm a basketball fan, not an accountant. I like staring up at the jumbotron, because that last play was so freakin' amazing. I love it when the commentators say, "Everybody in the arena knows he's going left, and they STILL can't stop him." And, frankly, I miss some of the plays from Manu that used to make Pop so crazy.

Every single year, a number of really good basketball teams go home without a trophy. It's not realistic to expect 16 wins in the playoffs every season. So it's nice to enjoy the other 82 along the way.

Sometimes I forget that, for some people, nice guys finishing first isn't really a plus.

[SequSpur]

pop speaks with forked tongue to the media
if you follow the spurs you know that

dude, take your fuckin medication and get some therapy.

shit... :pctoss

[ducks]

what are you? his fucking translator? seriously, you can't be this thick.

no I follow the spurs since david robinson was a rookie

there is a reason pop's nickname is cia pop

[SequSpur]

no I follow the spurs since david robinson was a rookie

there is a reason pop's nickname is cia pop

take your meds jeffie.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Here's a thought:

Trade his ass.

When he's on his last leg (if he isn't there now) and about to retire, sign him to a cheap friend-of-the-family contract and retire him and his jersey.


I know this doesn't sit well with people but neither would being a sucky team for the rest of Tim's 20/10 (aka badass) years.

The reality is that there are maybe, just maybe 2 more TimVP years left in Duncan's career and they should not be wasted on broken down shooting guards like Finley and Manu and statues like KT and Oberto.

This team needs an overhaul. The organization likes D and you can't play D without youth and athleticism.

[350slk]

I'm a basketball fan, not an accountant. I like staring up at the jumbotron, because that last play was so freakin' amazing. I love it when the commentators say, "Everybody in the arena knows he's going left, and they STILL can't stop him." And, frankly, I miss some of the plays from Manu that used to make Pop so crazy.

Every single year, a number of really good basketball teams go home without a trophy. It's not realistic to expect 16 wins in the playoffs every season. So it's nice to enjoy the other 82 along the way.

Sometimes I forget that, for some people, nice guys finishing first isn't really a plus.
:toast:toast

[rascal]

Here's a thought:

Trade his ass.

When he's on his last leg (if he isn't there now) and about to retire, sign him to a cheap friend-of-the-family contract and retire him and his jersey.


I know this doesn't sit well with people but neither would being a sucky team for the rest of Tim's 20/10 (aka badass) years.

The reality is that there are maybe, just maybe 2 more TimVP years left in Duncan's career and they should not be wasted on broken down shooting guards like Finley and Manu and statues like KT and Oberto.

This team needs an overhaul. The organization likes D and you can't play D without youth and athleticism.

Good post. The spurs need an overhaul of the roster.

[gameFACE]

Pop just set himself up to be the good guy regardless of what happens.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

A June, 2009 guess: They would offer a two-year deal near his current salary.

if that is true
the spurs would be stupid
way overpaid

A haiku goes 5-7-5.:bang

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57088

[samikeyp]

A haiku goes 5-7-5.:bang

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57088

:lmao




If you can trade Manu and by doing so you make the team better now and also do not cripple your future, you do it. You don't just trade him for a salary cap break and hope for the best.

[ambchang]

There are ramnifications with trading away Manu. If the Spurs expect to have players be loyal to them and not jump at the next big chance, they have to build a culture of loyalty. Robinson and Duncan has been largely loyal (judging by the end result), Popovich has been with the organization forever.

They have also treated their front office personnel with their interest in mind. Sam Presti, Danny Ferry, Terry Porter, Avery Johnson and Mike Brown all had a career boost from the Spurs recommendations. Even Carlisimo has gotten a second chance.

By showing the league that the organization will look out for your best interest (without being utterly stupid of course), the players would in turn look out for the interest of the organization without being totally selfish.

Derek Anderson and Stephen Jackson didn't work out, and there are bad investment that you have to get rid of, like Udrich, but overall, the Spurs have looked after their players quite well, providing them with 2nd and 3rd chances to prove themselves.

If the Spurs traded away Manu after what he has done to the franchise, a large part of this culture would be destroyed.

[samikeyp]

There are ramnifications with trading away Manu. If the Spurs expect to have players be loyal to them and not jump at the next big chance, they have to build a culture of loyalty. Robinson and Duncan has been largely loyal (judging by the end result), Popovich has been with the organization forever.

They have also treated their front office personnel with their interest in mind. Sam Presti, Danny Ferry, Terry Porter, Avery Johnson and Mike Brown all had a career boost from the Spurs recommendations. Even Carlisimo has gotten a second chance.

By showing the league that the organization will look out for your best interest (without being utterly stupid of course), the players would in turn look out for the interest of the organization without being totally selfish.

Derek Anderson and Stephen Jackson didn't work out, and there are bad investment that you have to get rid of, like Udrich, but overall, the Spurs have looked after their players quite well, providing them with 2nd and 3rd chances to prove themselves.

If the Spurs traded away Manu after what he has done to the franchise, a large part of this culture would be destroyed.

I disagree. Manu is a large part of this franchise's success but he is not at the superstar level of Robinson or Duncan. Trading Manu would be along the same lines of when they traded Elliott. People would be pissed but not to the level of if a Robinson or Duncan was traded. The culture of loyalty you described would take a hit but not as big of one as you might think.

[ambchang]

I disagree. Manu is a large part of this franchise's success but he is not at the superstar level of Robinson or Duncan. Trading Manu would be along the same lines of when they traded Elliott. People would be pissed but not to the level of if a Robinson or Duncan was traded. The culture of loyalty you described would take a hit but not as big of one as you might think.

No question that Manu is similar to Elliott in terms of value to the franchise. You can even argue that Elliott > Manu based strictly on the value to the franchise, but Eliott wasn't as big a part of the Spurs franchise back when he was traded, as he made most of his mark after being traded back to the Spurs. Also, trading Eliott back then created a lot of negative feedback from the fans.

Finally, Manu is all passion, he is the heart and soul. You just don't trade away your heart and soul.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I disagree. Manu is a large part of this franchise's success but he is not at the superstar level of Robinson or Duncan. Trading Manu would be along the same lines of when they traded Elliott. People would be pissed but not to the level of if a Robinson or Duncan was traded. The culture of loyalty you described would take a hit but not as big of one as you might think.

You can't comapre what Elliott had done before being traded to what Manu has done.

If you're talking about emotional binding then OK.

[JoeChalupa]

I trust Pop's judgement.

[DPG21920]

This is something we already knew. For the Spurs to contend, they have to add to a HEALTHY Duncan, Parker & Ginobili. The elite teams are all so deep, it would do nothing to trade Ginobili for someone of equal value. That would just keep the Spurs a float, not elevate them to serious contender status.


The Spurs have to make a decent trade or FA signing and have the big 3 healthy in order to have any chance of winning #5.

[elbamba]

I don't think Manu needs to take a paycut. He might have played for his country but that doesn't mean he hasn't given the Spurs his heart and soul. Tim played for the USA in 2003-2004. David played for the USA in 1992 and 1996, no one cared then. He has been the best deal in the NBA over the last decade. There is not a single player that is close to his talent that has been paid as little as he has.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I do not care if the game is fun to watch
I take the wins and rings over that

Yep, and we'd have a couple fewer rings without him. Your boy Parker sure wouldn't have been able to carry us all those years.

STFU ducks.

[samikeyp]

No question that Manu is similar to Elliott in terms of value to the franchise. You can even argue that Elliott > Manu based strictly on the value to the franchise, but Eliott wasn't as big a part of the Spurs franchise back when he was traded, as he made most of his mark after being traded back to the Spurs. Also, trading Eliott back then created a lot of negative feedback from the fans.

Elliott had his two best scoring years immediately after the trade but his ASG appearances were split, one before and one after. And yes there was tons of negative feedback with the Elliott deal as I alluded to. The backlash over Manu would be louder because there are now more ways to communicate but I would wager that if the same options were around at the time of Sean's trade, it would be very similar and for the same reasons.


Finally, Manu is all passion, he is the heart and soul. You just don't trade away your heart and soul

You do if you makes the team better now and doesn't cripple the future. However that being said, I don't know what kind of deal, if any, would accomplish that.

[samikeyp]

You can't comapre what Elliott had done before being traded to what Manu has done.

Actually you can, you can compare anyone.

Statistically, they are about dead even with Elliott having a very slight edge in all but 1 category.


If you're talking about emotional binding then OK.

This, however, was my point. :toast

[completely deck]

Finally we can put that inane idea to rest.

[EricB]

Yep, and we'd have a couple fewer rings without him. Your boy Parker sure wouldn't have been able to carry us all those years.

STFU ducks.

WTF does Tony Parker have to do with this?

[urunobili]

WTF does Tony Parker have to do with this?

The mere presence of ducks posting in the thread suggests it... :wakeup

[FromWayDowntown]

We're one season removed from Manu Ginobili being a third team All-NBA player who led his team in scoring through a strong regular season and a tough second round series against New Orleans and into the conference finals.

He has a team-favorable contract -- certainly a deal that won't allow the Spurs to get value-for-value, from a talent standpoint in a trade. Moreover, there's just no way that the Spurs can get back in such a trade anything resembling the intangible value and competitiveness that Manu has. When Kobe Bryant tells the whole world that you're a "bad man," it suggests to me at least that there's more to Manu than just talent.

That he had an injury plagued season -- one that started with him being injured as a carry over from the end of the prior season -- doesn't strike me as a particularly good reason to jettison him at this point. In fact, even at something less than 100% during 2008-09, Manu was 4th among SG in PER and 11th in the league. It's not like the guy can't play any more.

[wildbill2u]

I've beena Spurs fan since the days when we were sharing the team with Dallas. At first I was just feeding the lack of professional basketball I grew to love while in school in NYC.

But the arrival of the Iceman with his wonderful offensive moves gave me a reason to stay and keep my season tickets. In every game I ever watched him play he would make some miraculous shot that was worth the price of my entertainment dollar.

When it comes down to the nitty gritty, this is all about entertainment dollars, folks. Especially in a small market where the stands have to be filled for the franchise to succeed, let alone compete.

Manu is that "seat filler" player for the Spurs. I love to watch his magic. Every game he makes the fans fell like they got their money's worth. Tim and Tony are great for stats and wonerful play, but people walk out of the arena talking about the Great Ginobilli and his daring feats.

It also doesn't hurt that with a population of Hispanics over 50%, that Manu "speaks their language" literally and figuritively: A macho guy who will take the risk (last second foul in WCF) for the love of the game and his individual pride.

Financially, it would be stupid to trade Manu. Artistically it would be boring.

[FromWayDowntown]

It is funny that the blog notes that Popovich "cannot envision trading" Manu, but ESPN had a headline a little while ago that said something like "Popovich admits that Manu could be traded."

[spursfan09]

WTF does Tony Parker have to do with this?

Exactly! You don't have to build up one player by knocking down another.

[loveforthegame]

The Spurs will not trade any of the big 3. They'll roll with them for however long Duncan and Ginobli have left. After that it's rebuilding mode.

[TwoHandJam]

Has this link http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Money_talks_and_Manu_stays.html been posted from Buck Harvey?

Very interesting excerpts in there:


A team put in a call to the Spurs last season with a legitimate offer for Manu Ginobili.

“Helluva player for a helluva player,” is the way Gregg Popovich describes the proposal now.


A rumor surfaced this month that the Wizards called the Spurs with an offer for him, and maybe all of this made Ginobili wonder if the ground had shifted. Asked by the Argentine press this week whether he thought he could be traded, he said “impossible” had lost a few letters.

Could Washington have offered Caron Butler straight up for Manu?

[loveforthegame]

The article has been updated since the original was posted.

I'm assuming Caron Butler is the player Pop is talking about otherwise no reason to even mention the offer.

It's possible the first offer didn't include Butler but now they are??

Regardless, it's pretty clear the Spurs won't trade him.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm assuming Caron Butler is the player Pop is talking about otherwise no reason to even mention the offer.

Antawn Jamison's number in 2008-09 was almost an exact match with Ginobili salary-wise. FWIW.

[benefactor]

He is not going to be traded. Worst case scenario is that he is not re-signed, but that is also unlikely.
:wakeup

[ducks]

Yep, and we'd have a couple fewer rings without him. Your boy Parker sure wouldn't have been able to carry us all those years.

STFU ducks.

quit living in the past
manu is not the same player
keep buring your head in the sand

[Oh, Gee!!]

There's always a chance. "People get in trouble when they say never," Popovich said Wednesday. There could always be "a stupid offer" from another team, he said.

in other words, a straight up trade for kobe or lebron is the only way Manu doesn't end his career as a spur.

[TMTTRIO]

Kind of interesting now that he said this especially since not too long ago he talked about how not too many players end their careers playing for the team that they started with and it seems interesting that he would say this now after Manu said he might be traded and let go. CIA Pop

[Mel_13]

Has this link http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Money_talks_and_Manu_stays.html been posted from Buck Harvey?

Very interesting excerpts in there:





Could Washington have offered Caron Butler straight up for Manu?

The Harvey blog does not say that the Wizards were the team that called last year. I think it is more likely that he was referring to the rumors surrounding a possible trade for Vince Carter. While the reports at the time did not mention Manu as part of a possible trade, that doesn't mean that the Nets didn't ask for him.

[benefactor]

Refresh my memory...who is this mythical player that we will trade Manu for that can help us win now?

[Guajalote]

I think Manu is staying put, barring a "stupid" offer from another team.

I asked myself this same question as DRob's career was winding down: How many teams in the league would jump at the chance to have Manu on their team?

The answer is, I don't think there would be many (if any) teams that wouldn't want him for his skills, leadership, and experience. Not to mention, his heart. According to a post that I read recently (sorry, don't have the link), there was video of Kobe saying something like, "That's a bad man" when he saw Manu sitting on the bench.

I'm going to leave it up to the FO to make the decisions, but as for me, I think he's staying.

[tomtom]

good now the idiots on this board can stop spouting nonsense

[Mel_13]

good now the idiots on this board can stop spouting nonsense

You underestimate them

[lurker23]

I'm glad Popovich, Harvey, et al. are reinforcing what most of us have been saying all along: Manu is not going to be traded, barring "an offer that they can't refuse."

As I've said before, I wouldn't wait until the end of the season to start talking about extension/new contract. Make sure he can get through training camp and the first month or two of the season, then get it done. That way you don't worry about competing bids over the summer, and you can use the "threat of injury" argument to shave off a million or two. Negotiations in March through July creates too big a threat of distraction or losing him.

The two year contract that Harvey suggests makes sense. I've been saying 3 years for a while now, and I think you can get him for a decent amount less per year if you throw in that extra year.

[Mel_13]

I'm glad Popovich, Harvey, et al. are reinforcing what most of us have been saying all along: Manu is not going to be traded, barring "an offer that they can't refuse."

As I've said before, I wouldn't wait until the end of the season to start talking about extension/new contract. Make sure he can get through training camp and the first month or two of the season, then get it done. That way you don't worry about competing bids over the summer, and you can use the "threat of injury" argument to shave off a million or two. Negotiations in March through July creates too big a threat of distraction or losing him.

The two year contract that Harvey suggests makes sense. I've been saying 3 years for a while now, and I think you can get him for a decent amount less per year if you throw in that extra year.

Agreed, but I don't think that will happen unless Manu retires from the NT. I can't see the Spurs assuming the risk of future injuries unless Manu is willing to commit to only playing for the Spurs for the rest of his career.

[ploto]

Unfortunately, Pop does not always get what he wants and Holt wields more power than fans realize.

[Parker2112]

CIA Pop is telling the truth, but he is also simultaneously raising the price of any Ginobili deal. He is telling all potential trade partners "the price is steep, fatten your offers." If he wasn't listening to offers, he wouldn't be doing his job.

[Spurs Brazil]

Trade Manu would be a mistake.

Keep him next season and than see what happens

[Spurs Brazil]

Money talks, and Manu stays

Buck Harvey - Buck Harvey A team put in a call to the Spurs last season with a legitimate offer for Manu Ginobili.

“Helluva player for a helluva player,” is the way Gregg Popovich describes the proposal now.

Popovich's answer then is the same as it is now, even after Ginobili ended another season with a limp. Popovich has always loved the guy, and he knows a healthy Ginobili can't be replaced.

But there's another reason Ginobili will be a Spur as long as he is upright.

He's also a helluva draw at the box office.

That the Spurs would even consider trading Ginobili seemed impossible a year ago. Ginobili used the same word this week to describe his sense of that time.

But then Ginobili collapsed in Beijing, and the Spurs chose to shelve any contract-extension discussions. When he felt pain before the All-Star break, then later went out for the rest of the season, there was more doubt.

A rumor surfaced this month that the Wizards called the Spurs with an offer for him, and maybe all of this made Ginobili wonder if the ground had shifted. Asked by the Argentine press this week whether he thought he could be traded, he said “impossible” had lost a few letters.

“Today I believe there is a chance it could happen,” he said.

There's always a chance. Popovich said that. “People get in trouble when they say never,” Popovich said Wednesday.

If somebody makes what Popovich calls “a stupid offer,” then who knows?

“But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading,” Popovich continued. “He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded.”

As Popovich put it, “He fits us.” He closes games as few can, and a moment in the Spike Lee documentary, “Kobe Doin' Work,” underlines that. Then, the Lakers are about to play the Spurs, and the camera focuses on Ginobili, who was unable to play that night because of an injury.

“That's a bad boy, right there,” Bryant said in the film. “I have so much respect for his game.”

Ginobili isn't perfect. Neither is Bryant, as his fourth-quarter collapse on Tuesday suggests.

But Ginobili wins games as few have, and an example came from an ESPN columnist who had a great idea. He called the Elias Sports Bureau and asked for the career winning percentages of 14 players, from Russell to Jordan to Magic.

There are variables, certainly, such as who was lucky enough to play with which team in which years. Still, Larry Bird was first. Ginobili second.

So the reasons to keep Ginobili are overwhelming: He gives the Spurs their best chance to win, and his contract is both reasonable and short.

But just as critical is the business of entertainment. Trading a popular player always has been dicey, and now it's marketing suicide. In this economic climate, with Plenty of Good Seats Available, no team wants to give its fans a reason to stay home.

The Phoenix Suns, for example, are willing to trade everyone but Steve Nash. “You have to care about these things now,” said one in the Suns organization.

The Spurs have to care about more. Nash might help another team, but Ginobili, if healthy, might turn another franchise into a contender.

Imagine the backlash if Ginobili took, say, the Wizards deep into the playoffs. It would be Scola times 10.

So the Spurs will happily stick with Ginobili. And if he shows even a glimmer of his old self next season, the Spurs will want to sign him to yet another contract.

Talent and box-office appeal are a helluva combination.


[email protected]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Money_talks_and_Manu_stays.html

[ploto]

The fact that Pop is talking publicly at all tells you something...

[Parker2112]

:rolleyes Didn't know that was an old quote

[clubalien]

Since when did Buck Harvey start blogging? This is good news though because Harvey is the most connected person in the media that is still around ... by far. The more Harvey Spurs content, the better.

Regarding this blog post, it's not too surprising. Pop loves Manu. The only way Manu gets traded is if the Spurs suddenly have to begin a rebuilding effort. Winning a championship and trading Manu doesn't go hand in hand.


Maybe spurs fans will learn the difference between a coach and a gm, one coaches the other trades players!

[lurker23]

Maybe spurs fans will learn the difference between a coach and a gm, one coaches the other trades players!

As long as Pop is the head coach of the Spurs, that line will be blurred more than 90% of professional teams.

[SCdac]

Buck Harvey-

Imagine the backlash if Ginobili took, say, the Wizards deep into the playoffs. It would be Scola times 10.

It would definitely be hard to watch Ginobili play for a contender. Definitely.

But I COULD handle him going to the eastern conference, to a weak team like the Wizards (where arenas and jamison will demand the ball), much much more than the west, where Ginobili could put a rival over the top.

If a trade came along to get Caron "tough juice" Butler and a top 5 draft pick back... I might put my fandom aside on that one, and say go for it. Ginobili's heart and drive for the game will eventually surpass his overall health.

But about Caron Butler (assuming he was offered), we're not talking just a Raja Bell quality player back, and the #5 pick. Butler averages almost 2 steals per game for his career (1.7 spg), and could easily fill the SF role for us for seasons to come. He's active on both ends, athletic, and hasn't shot below 45% from the field in about five seasons.

Most glaring problem I see with Caron.... might be just as injury prone as Ginobili..... if not worse..... Certainly something to be considered.

[Capt Bringdown]

Winning a championship and trading Manu doesn't go hand in hand.

Depending on Manu's increasingly fragile health and winning championships doesn't go hand in hand either.

If you're a Spurs fan, you're open to trading Manu. Period.

[GSH]

When he's on his last leg (if he isn't there now) ...




You guys have it all figured out, don't you? Ginobili is broken down won't be able to finish another season?

What about the league's poster child for being constantly injured - Grant Hill? In his seventh year in the league, he played exactly 4 games. Then 14, 29, 67, 21, and 65. Everyone... and I mean EVERYONE... was certain that his career was over, because he couldn't stay healthy. But in his first season with Phoenix, he played in 70 games. And this season, Hill's 14th season in the league, he played in all 82 games, and averaged 29.8 minutes. And none of the Phoenix players or coaches would tell you that he wasn't a big contributor to the team.

So this was Manu's 7th season in the league, and he played 44 games. From that, you can say with certainty that he is broken down? Time to take out the trash? Tell that to Grant Hill and the Phoenix Suns.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in Manu's 14th season in the league he is still playing as well as Grant Hill did this season. And I won't be surprised if, this upcoming season Manu averages 18-19 PPG and close to 5 boards and assists. There just aren't that many players in the league who can offer more support for Duncan's last few seasons. And the ones who can? We can't afford them.

Maybe his ankle holds up, maybe it doesn't. But you don't know, any more than the team does. But if Manu is healthy, he's a guy you want on your team. Period.

[tim_duncan_fan]

CIA Pop is telling the truth, but he is also simultaneously raising the price of any Ginobili deal. He is telling all potential trade partners "the price is steep, fatten your offers." If he wasn't listening to offers, he wouldn't be doing his job.

He's not saying that.
Trade for Butler is a steal
That's why trade is fake



Caron for Manu straight up would be an awesome steal in and of itself, let alone the 5th pick.

Unfortunately, this trade is too lopsided and doesn't make any sense for the Wiz.

[Marcus Bryant]

Unless there's a stupid offer made, it'd be stupid to deal him. Yes, he could continue to not be available when it matters, or he could beat the injury bug and put in 3 more solid seasons. There are very few players in NBA history who have exhibited his ability when it's winning time. The Spurs would be without 3 championships if they never had him on their roster.

[Capt Bringdown]

Unfortunately past accomplishments have little bearing on the present. Manu's health has failed the Spurs for two straight seasons, and he's 32. His best days are behind him, it's time to move on.

[Sean Cagney]

I am being realistic
my head is not buried in the sand like yours

Nope it is not, intead it must be burried in some good weed or STRONG alcohol.

[rayray2k8]

Any new trade offers?? Manu for LeBron come up yet??

[TDMVPDPOY]

who wouldnt want a guy who can play on the starting 5 or off the bench, even if his injury risky, its only 1 year rental and they can just offload him...

i was trollin on the wizards board, man they like to overrate their players who would just be bench players on this spurs team.....heck they even want HIll in most of the deals.

this is a pathetic draft class anyway....

why not go back to the table with the nets and ask for carter another bonafide 20pt scorer who we needed in playoffs, instead of relying on benchwarmers to come up with the needed 20pts a night.....the nets would probably ask for gino now compared to what we wouldve given them when mason was playin hot with hill.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

quit living in the past
manu is not the same player
keep buring your head in the sand

Tim is also not the same player he was in 2003, should we get rid of him as well while we're at it? Keep hating.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Why doesn't this trade make sense for the Wizards? There teams chemistry has not proven it can win anything and Manu is a better player than Caron Butler. So why doesn't it help? You can't honestly believe that Gilbert Arenas and the the Wizard front Wizards team wouldn't prefer Manu over Caron.

[benefactor]

Unfortunately past accomplishments have little bearing on the present. Manu's health has failed the Spurs for two straight seasons, and he's 32. His best days are behind him, it's time to move on.
Move on to who?

[Marcus Bryant]

Unfortunately past accomplishments have little bearing on the present. Manu's health has failed the Spurs for two straight seasons, and he's 32. His best days are behind him, it's time to move on.

Duncan's health has begun to fail him as well. His best days are behind him. And....he's 33. Adios.

[Marcus Bryant]

Move on to who?

Move on to a player who is not proven in the clutch, I suppose.