Spurs should trade Ginobili....

[SequSpur]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.

[ducks]

dude can you not read
there is another thread on the front page about this
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128376
and you even posted in it

[honestfool84]

i think it would be a safe bet to say that no one cares what you say.

[Tonto]

paleface midget drink fire water
tongue of snake and heart of buffalo unite
body like shrub, mouth like redwood
paleface midget need smoke peace pipe

[EricB]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.


So you want to rebuild and lose?

Make up your mind..

[SequSpur]

So you want to rebuild and lose?

Make up your mind..

so you want manu in a chair? how the fuck does that equate to winning?

[ducks]

So you want to rebuild and lose?

Make up your mind..

just because you rebuild you do not always
lose


if manu is so worth what this board thinks he is worth
spurs would be able to get any playing like bosh for him

[celldweller]

Dude, your shit is getting old and annoying. Move on.

[SequSpur]

Dude, your shit is getting old and annoying. Move on.

don't talk to me unless you have 10k posts.

[celldweller]

don't talk to me unless you have 10k posts.

How about don't post until you say something intelligent, fucking retard!

[SequSpur]

How about don't post until you say something intelligent, fucking retard!

I mastered the art of intelligence. :sequ

[CubanSucks]

dude can you not read
there is another thread on the front page about this
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128376
and you even posted in it

:lmao What an attention whore

[rayray2k8]

what I tell you about drinking??

[RonnekMC]

Stop talking about Manu trading! It will not happen.

[TDMVPDPOY]

trade ginoboli while his still worth something...

fuck the spurs FO if they not willing to make a move

[spursbird]

But you think you could trade Manu for whom? He just averaged 19.5 pts last season and 15.5 pts this season, what more do you want?

[Muser]

Depends who we could get for him.

[Bukefal]

Agreed, he should go. Spurs should look at the opportunities who we can get for him. We should trade him for someone younger. Look at the future...

[urunobili]

ok we got ducks and Pukefal already hating on the thread... Vander and rascal joining in 3, 2, 1...

[Bukefal]

ok we got ducks and
Bukefal already hating on the thread... Vander and rascal joining in 3, 2, 1...

Ok, why am I hating when I just think I would want to trade Manu? Has nothing to do with hate, I dont have any hate against Manu, he is a good player. But now I just think trading him would be a good option. So if I want for example; Oberto to be traded, just like many do, does that mean that I hate Oberto?!! No!!

So drop the ''you hate him'' blablabla.... BS.

You probably see it as hate, and you dont want Manu to go, since you are a spurs fan just because of Manu I think. Am I right? Well, not everyone is a Spurs fan solely because of Manu, like you are, and not everyone sees Manu as a god, like you do, and not everyone is part of the Manu church like you are.

I mean, arent we entitled to our own opinion?! If you dont agree with ours and you have your own opinion, fine! But that does not mean we are hating. It's just a matter of opinions my friend.

[rascal]

Ok, why am I hating when I just think I would want to trade Manu? Has nothing to do with hate, I dont have any hate against Manu, he is a good player. But now I just think trading him would be a good option. So if I want for example; Oberto to be traded, just like many do, does that mean that I hate Oberto?!! No!!

So drop the ''you hate him'' blablabla.... BS.

You probably see it as hate, and you dont want Manu to go, since you are a spurs fan just because of Manu I think. Am I right? Well, not everyone is a Spurs fan solely because of Manu, like you are, and not everyone sees Manu as a god, like you do, and not everyone is part of the Manu church like you are.

Good post. Manu should have been traded two years ago.

[Bukefal]

I just think we should focus on the future, instead of circling around the same players over and over again, who probably have not much extra to give to our game anymore. So if that means to trade Manu? So be it! Get some fresh, talented, younger players to build a solid team and secure your future.

So we dont have to deal with uncertainty, age, injuries etc....

[Dr. Gonzo]

I mastered the art of intelligence. :sequ

I agree with this post.

SequSpur is my favorite poster.

[urunobili]

Ok, why am I hating when I just think I would want to trade Manu? Has nothing to do with hate, I dont have any hate against Manu, he is a good player. But now I just think trading him would be a good option. So if I want for example; Oberto to be traded, just like many do, does that mean that I hate Oberto?!! No!!

I don;t mind Oberto being shipped...


So drop the ''you hate him'' blablabla.... BS.

Your refusal to see his value to the team the franchise overall and the city of San Antonio really doesn't allow me to...


You probably see it as hate, and you dont want Manu to go, since you are a spurs fan just because of Manu I think. Am I right? Well, not everyone is a Spurs fan solely because of Manu, like you are, and not everyone sees Manu as a god, like you do, and not everyone is part of the Manu church like you are.

You're such an ignorant loser... you haven't been here long enough to know me and what i am all about or even the reason why i am a Spurs fan... i LOL'd :lol


I mean, arent we entitled to our own opinion?! If you dont agree with ours and you have your own opinion, fine! But that does not mean we are hating. It's just a matter of opinions my friend.Objectively speaking... there is a difference between the sole fact of just trade someone because you want him out for some reason you will probably not be able to explain and you'll end up in the same place ducks has always fallen... envy... and think that could help the franchise win now if the right trade comes along... give me something that will make us better and i'll celebrate nbr 5 without Ginobili...

[Chieflion]

Ginobili has more value to the Spurs than other teams. Trading him will not bring back equal value.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Manu haters always fall in the same trap - they claim he's injured, worthless, washed up but they expect us to get younger, talented and athletic players for him.

Somewhere the logic is not right. Either he's good enough to entice other teams to give us great players, or he's washed up and done, in which case we can't expect to get anything that has more value to the team than his expiring 10 mil contract...

[2Cleva]

Better to trade away a player a year too early than a year too late.

[Dr. Gonzo]

That's it. I'm sending SequSpur a friend request. He better accept!!

[Mel_13]

Manu haters always fall in the same trap - they claim he's injured, worthless, washed up but they expect us to get younger, talented and athletic players for him.

Somewhere the logic is not right. Either he's good enough to entice other teams to give us great players, or he's washed up and done, in which case we can't expect to get anything that has more value to the team than his expiring 10 mil contract...


Indisputable logic.

Manu could possibly bring some younger in pieces in return. In the long run, such a trade could be beneficial for the franchise. In the short run, the team is much less likely to be ranked among the elite. If you are willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term, then that is a fair position.

Most of the "trade Manu" crowd, however, seem to think that there is trade out there that makes the Spurs better immediately AND improves their long-term outlook. When asked to propose some such realistic possibilities that benefit the Spurs and their trading partners, these posters either leave the thread or fall back on some response like "well that's the job of the FO".

It's the same with the "fire Pop" and the "FO sucks" bunch. They rant and complain, but rarely suggest realistic alternatives.

[Bukefal]

I don;t mind Oberto being shipped...



I dont mind trading Oberto too, so does that make us Oberto haters?!

No!

You did not even get my point there. :sleep

Doesnt matter, :toast lets toast with some Uruguayan Grappa Miel. :toast

[Bukefal]

Indisputable logic.

Manu could possibly bring some younger in pieces in return. In the long run, such a trade could be beneficial for the franchise. In the short run, the team is much less likely to be ranked among the elite. If you are willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term, then that is a fair position.

Most of the "trade Manu" crowd, however, seem to think that there is trade out there that makes the Spurs better immediately AND improves their long-term outlook. When asked to propose some such realistic possibilities that benefit the Spurs and their trading partners, these posters either leave the thread or fall back on some response like "well that's the job of the FO".

It's the same with the "fire Pop" and the "FO sucks" bunch. They rant and complain, but rarely suggest realistic alternatives.

No, no! I always think about the long run. Ive said numerous times, to secure our future, that does not mean next year, but the years after. Im looking in the future. For the beneficial of the spurs in the long run. That's why I want the Spurs to focus on young players now, who can be bright in the future and so we can have the benefits of them later.

[Mel_13]

No, no! I always think about the long run. Ive said numerous times, to secure our future, that does not mean next year, but the years after. Im looking in the future. For the beneficial of the spurs in the long run. That's why I want the Spurs to focus on young players now, who can be bright in the future and so we can have the benefits of them later.


I don't think that you are among those I referred to in the sentence you bolded. Look at the sentence right before that where I said: If you are willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term, then that is a fair position.:toast

[JudynTX]

Agreed, he should go. Spurs should look at the opportunities who we can get for him. We should trade him for someone younger. Look at the future...

As much as I love Manu and what he's done for this team, I agree with this. :depressed

We have to rebuild at some point, when is a good time to do that? 2-3 years?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If you are willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term, then that is a fair position.:toast

I don't see how this is a justifiable position.

It is widely recognized that our window as a contender is until 2012. Because of this we are in a "win now" mode more than ever before. It makes no sense whatsoever to look too much into the future beyond the summer of 2012, it is then when we'd have to rebuild. Yes we could acquire some marginal talent right now, which could eventually help after a few years, but that's a long shot and we simply haven't got the pieces to be able to attract top level young talent. What could we achieve? Being a 40-win, instead of a 30-win team in 2012/13? One could easily argue that'd be even worse in the longer long term LOL

[samikeyp]

Widely recognized? by who? Does the NBA issue "success windows" now? :lol

I have no problem with sacrificing the short term to a point. If not winning a title this season means multiple titles down the road? Sure but again, what deal is out there that would ensure this by trading Manu?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Widely recognized? by who?

By Tim Duncan's contract.

[samikeyp]

By Tim Duncan's contract.

So when Duncan leaves, the Spurs will never ever win another title.


OK. :toast :)


There can be life after Duncan. That is probably why some want to trade Manu. Personally I don't think dealing Manu can do that.

[Mel_13]

I don't see how this is a justifiable position.

It is widely recognized that our window as a contender is until 2012. Because of this we are in a "win now" mode more than ever before. It makes no sense whatsoever to look too much into the future beyond the summer of 2012, it is then when we'd have to rebuild. Yes we could acquire some marginal talent right now, which could eventually help after a few years, but that's a long shot and we simply haven't got the pieces to be able to attract top level young talent. What could we achieve? Being a 40-win, instead of a 30-win team in 2012/13? One could easily argue that'd be even worse in the longer long term LOL


Just read my post again. My point was to compare that position to those that believe Manu could be traded for players who improve the Spurs in the short-term AND the long-term. If someone believes that the championship window is closed, then one could reasonably argue for moving aging assets to obtain younger pieces.

I have a problem with those who believe that there is a realistic Manu trade out there that makes the Spurs an elite contender in the short term and improves long term prospects as well. I don't believe such a trade is possible.

I have stated my own position on the subject of trading Manu in several threads. I believe his current value is little more than as an expiring contract. Between now and the trade deadline his value can significantly increase, but cannot significantly decrease. Barring a Gasol type "stupid" trade, the Spurs should keep Manu this summer and see how he and TD are able to play this season. At the trade deadline they will be in a much better position to decide on the best course of action to pursue with Manu. They will have at least four possible options:

1. Trade at trade deadline
2. Sign to an extension
3. Sign and trade next summer
4. Let his contract expire and use the cap space to sign a FA

[z0sa]

Manu is not washed up, nor done. His winning attitude, low keyed personality and God-given natural ability have combined to help us win 3 championships in recent memory. Without him, it is more than feasible to say that none of those championships would exist.

However, the objective spurs fan must take a quick grasp of our assets and realize that Manu, along with his soon to be expiring contract, are by far our most lucrative chips on the trading block, and by far our most easily dealt for equal talent. Could Pop, or me, or any average spurfan see Manu being traded for fodder, or even the 5th pick? No. But I'd be pissed if I thought for one second, the FO wasn't shopping Manu after two unhealthy seasons for some big-time offer. It's only business.

[SenorSpur]

Even though nothing is likely to ever come of it, it looks as though the Spurs have already received an offer for Manu:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59740/20090611/wizards_make_offer_for_ginobili/

Wizards Make Offer For Ginobili

The Washington Wizards have made a trade offer for Manu Ginoibili.

Asked by the Argentine press this week whether he thought he could be traded, he said “impossible” had lost a few letters.

“Today I believe there is a chance it could happen,” Ginobili said.

“People get in trouble when they say never,” Gregg Popovich said Wednesday.

“But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading,” Popovich continued. “He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded.”

[Spurs16212]

The Spurs need to evaluate what they have and make the decision on whats best for the team.... Now Washington has been dangling the number five pick and I bellieve Antawn Jamison's hefty contract..... Take the five pick and get someone who will be able to produce.... Washington is trying to dump salary so whos to say that they do not try to payoff Manu or he does the Sean Elliott thing and go for a year and come back as a free agent.... This could be a winning situation for the Spurs.

[Mel_13]

Even though nothing is likely to ever come of it, it looks as though the Spurs have already received an offer for Manu:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59740/20090611/wizards_make_offer_for_ginobili/

Wizards Make Offer For Ginobili

The Washington Wizards have made a trade offer for Manu Ginoibili.

Asked by the Argentine press this week whether he thought he could be traded, he said “impossible” had lost a few letters.

“Today I believe there is a chance it could happen,” Ginobili said.

“People get in trouble when they say never,” Gregg Popovich said Wednesday.

“But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading,” Popovich continued. “He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded.”

No they haven't. It's just realgm.com badly paraphrasing the Harvey article. Look at the bottom of the realgm.com piece you linked to where it says "via Express-News". When you click that, you get Harvey's blog which contains this sentence "A rumor surfaced this month that the Wizards called the Spurs with an offer for him". Realgm takes that sentence and turns it into the declarative statement "The Washington Wizards have made a trade offer for Manu Ginoibili." Let's just say that exercised a little too much literary license.

Realgm.com headlines are often exaggerated, if not fictional, in order to attract readers.

[FromWayDowntown]

So when Duncan leaves, the Spurs will never ever win another title.


OK. :toast :)


There can be life after Duncan. That is probably why some want to trade Manu. Personally I don't think dealing Manu can do that.

I'd argue that it's extremely unlikely that the Spurs can remain an elite franchise post-Duncan without bumping into the sort of luck that landed them David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the first place. Unless you're lucky enough to be the Lakers, you generally can't become an elite team without first being a bad team for at least a little while and then having some luck with the lottery. It might not be that the lottery will get you a guy who wins you titles, but spending some time in the lottery is certainly the best bet to get such a player, either by drafting him or by using lottery-type assets to go get him.

Look at Boston. It took a few years of being a lottery club to acquire the assets (Jefferson, picks) that allowed them to acquire Garnett and Allen. Look at Orlando, which had to win the lottery in 2004 to get Howard. Look at Cleveland and the 2003 lottery win (after years of being stuck in the lottery). The 2004 Pistons were loaded with lottery players, several of whom were acquired by trading other lottery players.

I'll admit that I might be in a distinct minority here, but I think the Spurs are barking up the wrong tree if they think that they can plan now to remain an elite team without Duncan. Absent some ridiculous luck in the summer of 2010, the Spurs' best chances to win titles after Duncan will depend upon them having some stumbles and rebuilding with lottery-type talent during that time. And getting some luck in doing so.

[rascal]

Just read my post again. My point was to compare that position to those that believe Manu could be traded for players who improve the Spurs in the short-term AND the long-term. If someone believes that the championship window is closed, then one could reasonably argue for moving aging assets to obtain younger pieces.

I have a problem with those who believe that there is a realistic Manu trade out there that makes the Spurs an elite contender in the short term and improves long term prospects as well. I don't believe such a trade is possible.

I have stated my own position on the subject of trading Manu in several threads. I believe his current value is little more than as an expiring contract. Between now and the trade deadline his value can significantly increase, but cannot significantly decrease. Barring a Gasol type "stupid" trade, the Spurs should keep Manu this summer and see how he and TD are able to play this season. At the trade deadline they will be in a much better position to decide on the best course of action to pursue with Manu. They will have at least four possible options:

1. Trade at trade deadline
2. Sign to an extension
3. Sign and trade next summer
4. Let his contract expire and use the cap space to sign a FA


I believe the championship window has closed for the current spurs without a significant addition on the frontline and I mean borderline all star next to Duncan.

The Lakers have kicked the spurs butts since they have gotten Gasol. The spurs are just a bad matchup against them. Also other teams are passing the spurs out with younger more talented players. As these younger players develope the spurs will be left in the dust.

The spurs won't be winning anything with their recent past philosophy of just plugging in the frontline with any below average talented players.

It would take trading an asset like Manu for a significant upgrade on the frontline

[SenorSpur]

No they haven't. It's just realgm.com badly paraphrasing the Harvey article. Look at the bottom of the realgm.com piece you linked to where it says "via Express-News". When you click that, you get Harvey's blog which contains this sentence "A rumor surfaced this month that the Wizards called the Spurs with an offer for him". Realgm takes that sentence and turns it into the declarative statement "The Washington Wizards have made a trade offer for Manu Ginoibili." Let's just say that exercised a little too much literary license.

Realgm.com headlines are often exaggerated, if not fictional, in order to attract readers.

Yes they have. In fact, if you follow the link below and read the top of the Buck Harvey article on E-News (link below), Pop indicates as much in the Buck Harvey article. Even though the offer was made last season, there indeed appears the Blizzards indeed made a legitimate offer for Manu.

I hear what you're saying in that RealGM makes it appear as though there was a recent offer, but the Blizzards have ventured into this area before.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Money_talks_and_Manu_stays.html

[E-RockWill]

Can't we stop all of the fussin' & fightin'?!
:flag:

[Mel_13]

I believe the championship window has closed for the current spurs without a significant addition on the frontline and I mean borderline all star next to Duncan.

The Lakers have kicked the spurs butts since they have gotten Gasol. The spurs are just a bad matchup against them. Also other teams are passing the spurs out with younger more talented players. As these younger players develope the spurs will be left in the dust.

The spurs won't be winning anything with their recent past philosophy of just plugging in the frontline with any below average talented players.

It would take trading an asset like Manu for a significant upgrade on the frontline

I can't see how a reasonable person could argue much with the points you make in your first three paragraphs. I certainly wouldn't take issue with those points.

Where I think we diverge is with the bolded statement. I can't see a "borderline all-star" frontline player that could be obtained in exchange for Manu. Now if Bryan Colangelo starts channeling Chris Wallace and offers up Bosh in exchange for Manu plus filler, then I'm in. I just don't believe such an unbalanced deal is possible. Now stat sheet fillers on bad contracts like Zach Randolph and Antawn Jamison may be available in exchange for Manu, but I wouldn't trade Manu for either one of those players.

What "borderline all-star" frontline player do you think the Spurs could obtain for Manu in a trade that makes sense for the other team as well?

[Mel_13]

Yes they have. In fact, if you follow the link below and read the top of the Buck Harvey article on E-News (link below), Pop indicates as much in the Buck Harvey article. Even though the offer was made last season, there indeed appears the Blizzards indeed made a legitimate offer for Manu.

I hear what you're saying in that RealGM makes it appear as though there was a recent offer, but the Blizzards have ventured into this area before.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Money_talks_and_Manu_stays.html

Wasn't looking to argue with you.

Just that realgm.com is notorious for their exaggerated headlines. Right now if you go to their front page the largest, boldest headline on the front page proclaims "Wizards make offer for Ginobili" The clear implication is that there is a current offer on the table and there is no reputable source to support that claim.

Realgm, hoopshype, and other collections of news reports, blogs, and rumors are good for what they are. I link to various content posted on those sites all the time. But they play fast and loose with their headlines and take statements out of context to get people to click thru.

[benefactor]

I can't see how a reasonable person could argue much with the points you make in your first three paragraphs. I certainly wouldn't take issue with those points.

Where I think we diverge is with the bolded statement. I can't see a "borderline all-star" frontline player that could be obtained in exchange for Manu. Now if Bryan Colangelo starts channeling Chris Wallace and offers up Bosh in exchange for Manu plus filler, then I'm in. I just don't believe such an unbalanced deal is possible. Now stat sheet fillers on bad contracts like Zach Randolph and Antawn Jamison may be available in exchange for Manu, but I wouldn't trade Manu for either one of those players.

What "borderline all-star" frontline player do you think the Spurs could obtain for Manu in a trade that makes sense for the other team as well?
This is what rascal doesn't seem to understand in all of his endless "trade Manu" rants. There is not a single front line player on the market this summer that can make us a contender.

[rogcl1]

don't talk to me unless you have 10k posts.

10,000 piles of bullshit still = A pile of bullshit.

[rascal]

This is what rascal doesn't seem to understand in all of his endless "trade Manu" rants. There is not a single front line player on the market this summer that can make us a contender.

Bosh will be on the market and is a player that would make the spurs a contender. Now I am not saying Manu could get Bosh straightup or even Manu + expiring contracts but Bosh is a player that could give the spurs a fighting chance against the Lakers. Camby is also a possibility and that deal would be a straitup trade that the clippers may make but not sure Camby would push the spurs past the Lakers.

The spurs are in a position that they have to make a major move to upgrade the frontline.


There are always deals that go down every year that include good frontline players and the spurs front office needs to pull something off.

I am not expecting the spurs to do much more than the usual below average role player moves and sell the idea that a healthy Manu gets them back to the top. This line of thinking will lead to another early playoff exit next year.

[rascal]

This is what rascal doesn't seem to understand in all of his endless "trade Manu" rants. There is not a single front line player on the market this summer that can make us a contender.

So you don't think it is possible for the spurs to be a contender next year.

[Duncan2177]

The only players i would trade Manu for are Kobe,LeBron,Wade,Amare or Bosh. Thats it

[ducks]

melo>manu

[coyotes_geek]

The only players i would trade Manu for are Kobe,LeBron,Wade,Amare or Bosh. Thats it

Howard, Durant, Paul, Melo, Granger, Jefferson.................

[benefactor]

Bosh will be on the market and is a player that would make the spurs a contender. Now I am not saying Manu could get Bosh straightup or even Manu + expiring contracts but Bosh is a player that could give the spurs a fighting chance against the Lakers. Camby is also a possibility and that deal would be a straitup trade that the clippers may make but not sure Camby would push the spurs past the Lakers.

The spurs are in a position that they have to make a major move to upgrade the frontline.


There are always deals that go down every year that include good frontline players and the spurs front office needs to pull something off.

I am not expecting the spurs to do much more than the usual below average role player moves and sell the idea that a healthy Manu gets them back to the top. This line of thinking will lead to another early playoff exit next year.
It's just not going to happen. Why would Toronto give away Bosh for a player that is just as likely to walk away? Manu has already stated that he could see himself in Houston with Scola if the Spurs don't re-sign him, so Toronto has no shot at keeping him. Camby? You are really out of touch with reality.

I agree that it is a crap shoot with Manu's health...but the odds are much better on that gamble, and you...once again...fail to suggest any scenario that would make us a championship contender if we traded him.

[MB20]

Howard, Durant, Paul, Melo, Granger, Jefferson.................

Really?
Is that because of age only? Those guys are not better than Manu.

[coyotes_geek]

Really?
Is that because of age only? Those guys are not better than Manu.

Age is part of it, but not all of it. And yes, those two are better than Manu right now. Two years ago, no. Today, yes.

[TMTTRIO]

I don't care anymore. I guess I'm one of the few who thinks Manu will come back very healthy and have a great year. I think I'm more concerned with Tim's chronic knee condition then Manu's ankles. If it makes the Spurs better then Bye Manu and I will still enjoy watching him play but I wouldn't just trade him to get rid of him like everyone wants to do. Let's see what he can do before just getting rid of him. At least he has only one year with the Spurs before he can go anywhere he wants and he knows this so he's going to be even more motivated to play well this year. Just like Pop said most players don't stay with the same team that they started with so who knows.

[MB20]

Age is part of it, but not all of it. And yes, those two are better than Manu right now. Two years ago, no. Today, yes.

Just for the record, I disagree. :lol

[coyotes_geek]

Just for the record, I disagree. :lol

I can understand having a debate about Manu versus Granger, but how can you not want to trade Manu for a 23 year old 20-10 guy like Al Jefferson? If there's ever going to be anything close to a Tim Duncan clone it's that guy.

[MB20]

I can understand having a debate about Manu versus Granger, but how can you not want to trade Manu for a 23 year old 20-10 guy like Al Jefferson? If there's ever going to be anything close to a Tim Duncan clone it's that guy.

Damn CG !!
I was thinking about Richard Jefferson !!!:lmao

Al Jefferson is better. No doubt.

[coyotes_geek]

Damn CG !!
I was thinking about Richard Jefferson !!!:lmao

Al Jefferson is better. No doubt.

:lol

That would explain it. No way in hell I'm trading Manu for Richard Jefferson.

[poop]

But you think you could trade Manu for whom? He just averaged 19.5 pts last season and 15.5 pts this season, what more do you want?

alot of good that did us in the playoffs.

[Chillen]

The only players i would trade Manu for are Kobe,LeBron,Wade,Amare or Bosh. Thats it

About right, I think that is what Pop mean't by someone making a "stupid offer" for Manu.

[Duncan2177]

Howard, Durant, Paul, Melo, Granger, Jefferson.................

Yea them to

[Indazone]

Manu = Spurs T-Mac

[45 bank shot]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.

yo why everytime you said that u weren't coming back, u came back right away

[45 bank shot]

Manu = Spurs T-Mac

hell no, when was the last time you see T-mac contribute to win a championship?

[Indazone]

hell no, when was the last time you see T-mac contribute to win a championship?

They both score a lot. They both can alter another teams defense. They are both chronically injured.

[MmP]

This Manu injury thing is really overhyped, he'll be fine people...
calm down for COL.

[Chieflion]

Just something I randomly thought about. And throw in the 5th pick to the Raptors or something. I am helping to give lux tax relief to Washington also with the trade. Sorry my bad, update.

Raptors will be under the cap this off season. Wizards on the other hand, will be in the area of the luxury tax. Spurs want to add a player who can impact the team and for another championship.

Wizards trade Deshawn Stevenson, Antawn Jamison, Mike James and the 5th pick for Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto. By buying out Fabricio Oberto, the Wizards should get out of the lux tax.

Raptors trade Chris Bosh for Antawn Jamison, 5th pick, Mike James and Deshawn Stevenson. Chris Bosh is not signing an extension. Bryan Coangelo may be worried he flies out of Toronto, so it would be best to trade him for assets before he leaves. With them under the tax, they can afford to eat up Mike James and Stevenson while preparing themselves for the 2011 season with Marcus Banks, Reggie Evans and Deshawn Stevenson expiring. They can also get James Harden and start him at the 2 guard spot immediately.

The Spurs trade Manu Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto for Chris Bosh. For the Spurs, trading Ginobili is a huge risk, high return. The Spurs can then get Chris Bosh and form the most formidable Center-Power Forward combination in the NBA and their games mesh very well. With Tony Parker playing for the Spurs, Bosh can also focus more on defense. We have seen he is capable of that in the Olympics, and with Duncan as his mentor like what David Robinson did for him, Bosh can become the new top power forward in today's game while competing for the championship.

Does that sound fair to you guys?

[diego]

They both score a lot. They both can alter another teams defense. They are both chronically injured.


the past couple years manu may have missed 80% of what tmac did, ok that's comparable. but that doesnt change that manu is a warrior that plays through injury while tmac is a pussy that sits out whenever he gets the chance

[urunobili]

They both score a lot. They both can alter another teams defense. They are both chronically injured.


sorry I lol'd... comparing T-Mac with Manu injuries wise? :lmao

just in case..

http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/epic-fail-daughter-black-guy-demotivational-poster.jpg

[rascal]

Just something I randomly thought about. And throw in the 5th pick to the Raptors or something. I am helping to give lux tax relief to Washington also with the trade. Sorry my bad, update.

Raptors will be under the cap this off season. Wizards on the other hand, will be in the area of the luxury tax. Spurs want to add a player who can impact the team and for another championship.

Wizards trade Deshawn Stevenson, Antawn Jamison, Mike James and the 5th pick for Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto. By buying out Fabricio Oberto, the Wizards should get out of the lux tax.

Raptors trade Chris Bosh for Antawn Jamison, 5th pick, Mike James and Deshawn Stevenson. Chris Bosh is not signing an extension. Bryan Coangelo may be worried he flies out of Toronto, so it would be best to trade him for assets before he leaves. With them under the tax, they can afford to eat up Mike James and Stevenson while preparing themselves for the 2011 season with Marcus Banks, Reggie Evans and Deshawn Stevenson expiring. They can also get James Harden and start him at the 2 guard spot immediately.

The Spurs trade Manu Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto for Chris Bosh. For the Spurs, trading Ginobili is a huge risk, high return. The Spurs can then get Chris Bosh and form the most formidable Center-Power Forward combination in the NBA and their games mesh very well. With Tony Parker playing for the Spurs, Bosh can also focus more on defense. We have seen he is capable of that in the Olympics, and with Duncan as his mentor like what David Robinson did for him, Bosh can become the new top power forward n today's game while competing for the championship.

Does that sound fair to you guys?

Sounds great. Anyway to land Bosh for Manu would be good.

[SouthTexasRancher]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.


Yeah we all want to end up like the Clippers, Kings and the T-Wolves. You're the one who should be traded to Timbuktu.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Just read my post again. My point was to compare that position to those that believe Manu could be traded for players who improve the Spurs in the short-term AND the long-term. If someone believes that the championship window is closed, then one could reasonably argue for moving aging assets to obtain younger pieces.

I have a problem with those who believe that there is a realistic Manu trade out there that makes the Spurs an elite contender in the short term and improves long term prospects as well. I don't believe such a trade is possible.

I have stated my own position on the subject of trading Manu in several threads. I believe his current value is little more than as an expiring contract. Between now and the trade deadline his value can significantly increase, but cannot significantly decrease. Barring a Gasol type "stupid" trade, the Spurs should keep Manu this summer and see how he and TD are able to play this season. At the trade deadline they will be in a much better position to decide on the best course of action to pursue with Manu. They will have at least four possible options:

1. Trade at trade deadline
2. Sign to an extension
3. Sign and trade next summer
4. Let his contract expire and use the cap space to sign a FA

I read your post and agree with all of your points. My comment was regarding people who think that trading Manu for whatever younger talent is justifiable because we're no longer an elite team. And this is a ridiculous assumption at this moment, maybe next summer or at the january trade deadline, at the earliest, but deffinitely not now.

I believe we'll be an elite team for as long as the big 3 are healthy and there is no point in breaking a successful core, just adding pieces. What happens after 2012 is of no importance right now.

[manu the best]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.



just wait and see .. when MANU will avg. 20+ ppg next season .. you will shut the fuck up ..



MANU=:lobt2:

[manu the best]

That's it. I'm sending SequSpur a friend request. He better accept!!


steven=gay ... :lmao

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.

Cutting nose off to spite face forum.

[Sean Cagney]

Trade him for fukkin who? Who will be near a healthy GINOBILIIIIIIIIII if we trade him? Get the fukk outta here, we will not get equal value for the great Gino.


Gino they were saying as early as last year as the second best SG in the game, I swear so many said that early on (07-08), now trade him? For who? Give me Wade okay, Give me someone who can be elite when healthy okay, but no scrub role player..

[jjktkk]

Very grateful that real, knowledgable, Spurs fans know that Sequ Spur never has a clue about how the Spurs should make any personnel moves. Thank the heavens Sequ your pointless rants are limited to just ST. That way only us ST's know how what a ass you make of yourself.

[jjktkk]

BTW Sequ, I thought you were retired from ST. Come on just go!!!! I'll send you a retirement gold watch. Just go somewhere Bro.

[Cherry]

Wake up people. We will not get equal value for him. Manu give up money this team, come off the bench for this team and he's working everyday for get in shape ASAP.

We need good role players rigth now.

[mookie2001]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.
listen to this dude Rufus, he knows what hes talking about.

[silk]

Now if we can have have bosh for manu and oberto, that's the kind of ridiculous offer we'd have to say yes

But the spurs without manu, don't know, i'm not a spurs fans because of san antonio, but because of the player san antonio has, and without manu, san antonio coud lose some fans

but heck, goal is to win games, not fans....

[Spurtacus]

I'm torn on this. Ginobili, as we've seen the past two offseasons, makes us a contender for the championship. Without him we have no chance. But, his ankle continues to worry me. At what point will the Spurs begin rebuilding with youth around Duncan and Parker?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

The bottom line to me is simple. If you are going to trade him be careful where he's landing. The worst case scenario would be to a contender that becomes better overnight with him. He's a professional. He will play his best on any team if his health allows him to.

Still I don't think under what scenario a trade like this would happen. It just doesn't make sense for the value and what he's getting paid now.

[ducks]

the bottom line to me is simple. If you are going to trade him be careful where he's landing. The worst case scenario would be to a contender that becomes better overnight with him. He's a professional. He will play his best on any team if his health allows him to.

Still i don't think under what scenario a trade like this would happen. It just doesn't make sense for the value and what he's getting paid now.

if his health
that is a big big big big if

[antgomez2009]

I don't give a shit about what Pop says... He needs to go to... so does Buck Harvey...

Heart doesn't count when its wrapped up in a bandaid sitting in a fuckin chair...

Nice guys finish last..rebuild this damn team and move the fuck on.


cmon on bra, if he is actually worth caron butler (proven vet still not ginobili ) and a lottery pick # 5 to be exact, then he still got some left in his tank. the man can hoop, and for being in the number 3 spot this year after an injury plagued year for the Spurs, thats not bad at all. A couple moves here and there, withou involving the big three, should take the spurs to elite status! But they have to make some moves to get a REAL CENTER, and a one or two young hard working with great potential indviduals. Its not over yet homie, Tim still playing, and your opinion is your opinion, but the obvious is that with Tim at the helm, you never out a championship run! Still had hope this season, just cut alot shorter then usual! Bonner, mason and gooden laid an egg this postseason! Tim and tony held it down, especailly timmy, on one leg, still going at them boi's, you got to resepct that!! ya dig

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'm sure Manu is reading Spurstalk right now...

[SequSpur]

Wake up people. We will not get equal value for him. Manu give up money this team, come off the bench for this team and he's working everyday for get in shape ASAP.

We need good role players rigth now.

are you related to Ducks or Dr. Seuss?

[phxspurfan]

Seeing Manu in another NBA uniform would break my heart.




...and I was one who started a thread about trading Manu for Tayshaun Prince.


...and later started a thread about trading Manu and Tony for Dirk and Bass.

[ducks]

Seeing Manu in another NBA uniform would break my heart.




...and I was one who started a thread about trading Manu for Tayshaun Prince.


...and later started a thread about trading Manu and Tony for Dirk and Bass.
:wgaf:
you trade him if you can get better
regardless if your heart is broken
manu knows it is a business

[ducks]

Trade him for fukkin who? Who will be near a healthy GINOBILIIIIIIIIII if we trade him? Get the fukk outta here, we will not get equal value for the great Gino.


Gino they were saying as early as last year as the second best SG in the game, I swear so many said that early on (07-08), now trade him? For who? Give me Wade okay, Give me someone who can be elite when healthy okay, but no scrub role player..

will manu be a near a healthy ginobobillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll













QUESTION

[ducks]

Hey Ducks how did your mother raise you to be so stupid?

she had your mommy and daddy's help

[phxspurfan]

This thread went south fast.

[Solid D]

This thread went south fast.

This thread started out south. 'Bunch of internet physicians, cyber prophets, and recliner coaches drunk on their own methane fumes who wear Depends so they won't miss any posts on Spurstalk.

[RC's Boss]

This thread started out south. 'Bunch of internet physicians, cyber prophets, and recliner coaches drunk on their own methane fumes who wear Depends so they won't miss any posts on Spurstalk.

:lmao

[underdawg]

listen to this dude Rufus, he knows what hes talking about.

I agree and I hope you're serious - we could have won a crap more titles with players other than mermaid, "no emotion" duncan and elliott - nice guys do finish last.

[silverblackfan]

It seems obvious that a healthy Manu is the best option for the Spurs and stops all the chatter about trading. He is in his last year of the contract, should be ready by training camp and has a year to prove everyone wrong. Manu and Tony are going to be a pair of beasts this year with Timmy playing his normal outstanding game. If we can just get a bit more athletic front line guys and Hill comfortable with PG, the Spurs will be solid.
I think another year of gambling on Manu is worth it. It's lower cost than anything we can get in trade, leaves 2010 options wide open and makes the fans go crazy whenever Manu dunks the ball.

[vincent]

It seems obvious that a healthy Manu is the best option for the Spurs and stops all the chatter about trading. He is in his last year of the contract, should be ready by training camp and has a year to prove everyone wrong. Manu and Tony are going to be a pair of beasts this year with Timmy playing his normal outstanding game. If we can just get a bit more athletic front line guys and Hill comfortable with PG, the Spurs will be solid.
I think another year of gambling on Manu is worth it. It's lower cost than anything we can get in trade, leaves 2010 options wide open and makes the fans go crazy whenever Manu dunks the ball.

Isn't that the same fantasy we had last year?? Nothing personal, just wish this team getting younger. Plus how many years can Tim wait ??? We can totally trade manu to get someone younger and stronger.

[SteelerNation]

I dont think the Spurs have the luxury of wasting another year of Tim Duncan to see if Manu can stay healty. Duncan looks like his knees arent gonna hold out much longer and the Spurs need to do what they can right now to help him. Not take chances with father time and Manu's ankles.

[ffadicted]

I dont think the Spurs have the luxury of wasting another year of Tim Duncan to see if Manu can stay healty. Duncan looks like his knees arent gonna hold out much longer and the Spurs need to do what they can right now to help him. Not take chances with father time and Manu's ankles.

Exactly, and you people are suggesting trading for draft picks and potentials because...?

[SteelerNation]

Who is "you people"? That was the 1st time I have given response in this thread. I agree that they need some kind of experience in return. But they want to get a little younger to.

[NewcastleKEG]

It would have to be QUITE an offer. Stuff like Ben Gorden and Tyrus Thomas, I dunno if you pull the trigger on that

[oski1000]

Trade Manu for Scola !!!!!!:downspin::downspin::downspin: