View Full Version : Brown Could Be Out In Cleveland
Spurs Brazil
06-11-2009, 08:44 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59738/20090611/brown_could_be_out_in_cleveland/
Some key members of Cleveland front office feel Mike Brown was badly out-coached by Stan Van Gundy, according to sources.
One source said Cavs management wasn't only disappointed in the losses, "but equally disappointed in the (two) wins" in a series that went six games.
It is believed that owner Dan Gilbert is among those who thinks the Cavs need an upgrade on the sidelines, while general manager Danny Ferry is standing strongly behind Brown.
Frank Isola of the New York Daily News filed a similar report and suggested a big name such as Pat Riley could be possible for the Cavaliers.
pauls931
06-11-2009, 08:47 AM
If they boot him and don't get lebron help, they're going to feel stupid when boston or Orlando boots them out again next year.
Muser
06-11-2009, 08:48 AM
He did get outcoached, but come on, he has one baller and then a team full of shit stains. What coach could do any better?
sribb43
06-11-2009, 08:56 AM
You can't really blame Brown for what happened. His assistants were the ones doing all the coaching during the playoffs. They should be fired
http://i42.tinypic.com/28lyo39.jpg
Chieflion
06-11-2009, 08:59 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59738/20090611/brown_could_be_out_in_cleveland/
Some key members of Cleveland front office feel Mike Brown was badly out-coached by Stan Van Gundy, according to sources.
One source said Cavs management wasn't only disappointed in the losses, "but equally disappointed in the (two) wins" in a series that went six games.
It is believed that owner Dan Gilbert is among those who thinks the Cavs need an upgrade on the sidelines, while general manager Danny Ferry is standing strongly behind Brown.
Frank Isola of the New York Daily News filed a similar report and suggested a big name such as Pat Riley could be possible for the Cavaliers.
I thought Pat was still with the Heat as GM or something.
lefty
06-11-2009, 09:05 AM
Oh, big surprise
lil_penny
06-11-2009, 09:48 AM
Ladies and gentlemen... your coach of the year!!
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 09:50 AM
it's not true. It's a NY tabloid trying everything they can in order to ruin the Cavs and get Lebron.
It's classic. They attach Pat Riley's name so it gets legs. The NY media are the ones that benefit the most by Lebron coming there, so remember that when you hear these stories
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 09:53 AM
You can't really blame Brown for what happened. His assistants were the ones doing all the coaching during the playoffs. They should be fired
http://i42.tinypic.com/28lyo39.jpg
that is how the Cavs have been run for over 3 years. They won 66 game by having the offensive coordinator draw up plays. It's no different than the guy for the Celtics who draws up the defense. The Cavs are different because their head coach is a defensive guy and draws up defense, and has a offensive guy draw up the offense. Most NBA teams have these guys and the head coach just talks with him and goes over it with the team, Brown just lets the other guy do it without the middle man. It's not anything groundbreaking, and its not bad coaching
DUNCANownsKOBE2
06-11-2009, 10:47 AM
It would be stupid to fire Mike Brown and I think TD is right that this is NY bullshit. Danny Ferry is not one of those dumb GM's that blames the coaching when the roster simply isn't good enough.
Mel_13
06-11-2009, 11:19 AM
it's not true. It's a NY tabloid trying everything they can in order to ruin the Cavs and get Lebron.
It's classic. They attach Pat Riley's name so it gets legs. The NY media are the ones that benefit the most by Lebron coming there, so remember that when you hear these stories
Firing Brown would be unjustified based on performance.
You should, however, actually read the NY blog. He argues that if the Cavs fire Brown and bring in a big name like Riley, it would DECREASE the chance that LeBron goes to NY. His point, while based on nothing more than his imagination, was that getting Riley to go to Cleveland would require a boatload of money and a commitment from LeBron to stay in Cleveland.
Key quote:
How does Brown's job status impact the Knicks? If Cavs owner Dan Gilbert were to decide to make a big, bold coaching move, that would certainly enhance the club's chances of re-signing LeBron James.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2009/06/brown-out-in-cleveland-could-h.html
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 12:00 PM
Firing Brown would be unjustified based on performance.
You should, however, actually read the NY blog. He argues that if the Cavs fire Brown and bring in a big name like Riley, it would DECREASE the chance that LeBron goes to NY. His point, while based on nothing more than his imagination, was that getting Riley to go to Cleveland would require a boatload of money and a commitment from LeBron to stay in Cleveland.
Key quote:
How does Brown's job status impact the Knicks? If Cavs owner Dan Gilbert were to decide to make a big, bold coaching move, that would certainly enhance the club's chances of re-signing LeBron James.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2009/06/brown-out-in-cleveland-could-h.html
now who actually believes that? How can firing Brown and start all over possibly help keep Lebron? Mike Brown is a Top 10 coach in the league, the problem is that his team's are undermanned. If you give him the assets his system can win. It's like Doc Rivers, the guy coaches the worst team in the league in 2004, but give him 3 Hall of Famers and he is the best coach in the league with a ring.
monosylab1k
06-11-2009, 12:03 PM
You mean Cavs management is actually doubting Mike Brown's genius gameplan of "Let LeBron do everything"?
monosylab1k
06-11-2009, 12:05 PM
I seriously think Mike Brown just says the same thing in every time out -
"Okay let's have LeBron run the offense, also LeBron will help guard all 5 guys on defense, and if any of you find yourself in trouble and LeBron isn't around to rescue your ass, just flop and hope for the best"
Ghazi
06-11-2009, 12:05 PM
My high is coming down,.
JamStone
06-11-2009, 12:08 PM
Mike Brown is probably an all right coach. Probably top 10 coach in the league, but the league is littered with average head coaches. If there were a big coaching upgrade available, I think the story would have credibility. If Phil Jackson or even Larry Brown were available, I'd find the claim legit. But, right now, Cleveland is better off sticking with Mike Brown.
Doc isn't a great example. He won COY in Orlando with Darrell Armstrong as the leading scorer on his team (before T-Mac and Grant Hill were acquired). Doc proved to be a pretty good coach before Boston. This is Mike Brown's first head coaching gig, so there isn't much evidence that he'd be a top 10 coach without riding on the back of LeBron.
DUNCANownsKOBE2
06-11-2009, 12:13 PM
It's a player's league. Firing a coach and bringing in a random coach has never and will never magically make a team better.
JamStone
06-11-2009, 01:10 PM
It's a player's league. Firing a coach and bringing in a random coach has never and will never magically make a team better.
True, but if it weren't a "random" coach but a proven championship winning coach, it would be a different story. That's probably why the article threw out Riley's just to add fuel to the fire.
I don't think the Pistons win the 2004 title with Rick Carlisle on the sidelines still. And, they probably would have eventually won at least one, but Phil Jackson was the right hire for the Shaq-Kobe Lakers in 1999. But of course those weren't "random" coaching hires.
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 02:05 PM
Phil Jackson is the classic chicken and the egg question. It's hard to say he is the best coach because he has had the benefit of having Jordan and Kobe/Shaq, and when he didn't have those combos his teams weren't great and winning championships. However, it's hard to argue against his resume. Mike Brown is a good coach, and his system can work- he just needs better players. It's hard to stop Rashard Lewis with Andy Varajeo and Wally Szerbiak, and hard to stop Howard with Z. People can blame it on Brown all they want, but it's not like anyone had any other ideas to help stop it. When you don't have the skill set, you don't have the skill set, it has nothing to do with coaching.
Allanon
06-11-2009, 02:07 PM
Ladies and gentlemen... your coach of the year!!
That's the kiss of death.
This is the nail in the coffin.
http://i42.tinypic.com/28lyo39.jpg
Mike Brown won't get fired over the Summer, but I don't think he will survive LeBron.
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 02:09 PM
Why doesn't anyone have a problem with Tom Tibideu or whatever his name is for the Celtics drawing up defensive plays for them?
Allanon
06-11-2009, 02:14 PM
Why doesn't anyone have a problem with Tom Tibideu or whatever his name is for the Celtics drawing up defensive plays for them?
Because they won the Championship. It's easy to ignore details when everything is going right.
But if the Celtics don't start racking up the Rings again next year with KG, I don't see Doc Rivers sticking around either.
Indazone
06-11-2009, 02:19 PM
Please let the Cavs keep Brown. It's best for the Cavs and best for the rest of the league :lol
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 02:20 PM
Because they won the Championship. It's easy to ignore details when everything is going right.
But if the Celtics don't start racking up the Rings again next year with KG, I don't see Doc Rivers sticking around either.
but you are posting .gifs of Mike Brown delegating the offensive play calling as if it signifies a lack of coaching, but coaches do it all of the time. It's really nothing new. The Cavs have 2 guys who just scout a team for days before they play them (Malone and Melvin Hunt), and they go over what they know with the team. Kuester the guy in the video is the offensive guy, and Brown is the defensive guy. It's really nothing that special or different
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 02:22 PM
Please let the Cavs keep Brown. It's best for the Cavs and best for the rest of the league :lol
Brown is basically Rick Adelman
LnGrrrR
06-11-2009, 02:22 PM
I seriously think Mike Brown just says the same thing in every time out -
"Okay let's have LeBron run the offense, also LeBron will help guard all 5 guys on defense, and if any of you find yourself in trouble and LeBron isn't around to rescue your ass, just flop and hope for the best"
:rollin
Indazone
06-11-2009, 02:27 PM
lol Brown isn't fit to sniff Rick Adleman's jockstrap
JamStone
06-11-2009, 02:28 PM
but you are posting .gifs of Mike Brown delegating the offensive play calling as if it signifies a lack of coaching, but coaches do it all of the time. It's really nothing new. The Cavs have 2 guys who just scout a team for days before they play them (Malone and Melvin Hunt), and they go over what they know with the team. Kuester the guy in the video is the offensive guy, and Brown is the defensive guy. It's really nothing that special or different
Dude, get a sense of humor. People are "mostly" joking around while you're really taking it to heart. A couple years ago, most Cavs fans hated Mr. Potatohead too and thought he was a horrible coach.
Plus, while it does happen (not as much as you suggest), what gives Mike Brown his distinction particularly in the gif above is he's not even part of the huddle to see what kind of offensive set is being drawn up. He's in the background pacing all flustered like he isn't even part of the team, much less the head coach of it. That's what makes it so amusing. Other head coaches that delegate responsibility would still be part of the huddle or at least sitting down and not allowing themselves to be ridiculed as the clueless coach in the background. But, again, just learn to take a few jokes and a little ribbing. You're not Mike Brown, are you?
Allanon
06-11-2009, 02:33 PM
but you are posting .gifs of Mike Brown delegating the offensive play calling as if it signifies a lack of coaching, but coaches do it all of the time. It's really nothing new. The Cavs have 2 guys who just scout a team for days before they play them (Malone and Melvin Hunt), and they go over what they know with the team. Kuester the guy in the video is the offensive guy, and Brown is the defensive guy. It's really nothing that special or different
It's actually not normal. Most head coaches control the ship and make sure their assistants don't take their thunder. Unfortunately for Mike Brown, Kuester is taking too much air time.
Like on the Lakers, they have Phil for the triangle and Kurt Rambis is the defensive coach. But you'll never see Kurt talking and Phil looking into the stands.
That Gif just looks bad for Mike Brown. It'd be OK if he was in the Finals but to fall short is not good. Then you see pictures of him checking out the chicks in the stands while his assistant is coaching :lol
I would belittle the shit out of Brown, but he's overachieved as coach of the LeBrons. If he knew a lick of offense they might still be playing.
Chillen
06-11-2009, 03:27 PM
It's the players fault, always is. Franchises have to blame the Coach. Look back at the 2004 Pistons-Lakers NBA finals. The Lakers franchise was ticked at Phil Jackson for not getting a lineup of Shaq, Kobe, Malone and Payton to win the chip, were talking Phil Jackson. It can happen to any coach, with a coach like Pop being the exception. If this was some other franchise Pop would have been fired for getting ousted in the 1st rd after so much playoff success. Props to the Spurs.
Franchises sometimes make mistakes when they blame the Coach and oust him. Cleveland should keep Coach Brown put.
The players need to blame themselves for not winning it all. Instead the Coach is shown the door. terrible.
If this was some other franchise Pop would have been fired for getting ousted in the 1st rd after so much playoff success. Props to the Spurs.
He made questionable decisions. If Spurfan enjoys more boneheaded moves like Mason at PG, he may come under more pressure than last postseason.
The reason no one is giving him much shit is Manu's untimely injury. Everyone knew we had essentially no chance to win a championship when Manu went down. I still believe he misused a few players, especially Hill and Mason. Who foresaw the Spurs falling so easily to the Mavs?
JoeTait75
06-11-2009, 05:26 PM
Look, it doesn't matter what Dan Gilbert or the front office wants. The only one who matters here is LeBron. If he wants MB to stay, MB will stay. If he wants MB gone, MB will be cleaning out his office within five minutes. Right or wrong, that's the way it works around here.
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 05:33 PM
Dude, get a sense of humor. People are "mostly" joking around while you're really taking it to heart. A couple years ago, most Cavs fans hated Mr. Potatohead too and thought he was a horrible coach.
Plus, while it does happen (not as much as you suggest), what gives Mike Brown his distinction particularly in the gif above is he's not even part of the huddle to see what kind of offensive set is being drawn up. He's in the background pacing all flustered like he isn't even part of the team, much less the head coach of it. That's what makes it so amusing. Other head coaches that delegate responsibility would still be part of the huddle or at least sitting down and not allowing themselves to be ridiculed as the clueless coach in the background. But, again, just learn to take a few jokes and a little ribbing. You're not Mike Brown, are you?
I find you of all people telling me to get a sense of humor funny. I have the best sense of humor on the board and I've wanted to tell you to lighten up about 50 times on here but deleted it because I didn't want to offend you. I think I posted it 5 times in the ECF Rating thread but chose to edit it out because I didn't want to hurt your feelings.
Phil Jackson is the classic chicken and the egg question. It's hard to say he is the best coach because he has had the benefit of having Jordan and Kobe/Shaq, and when he didn't have those combos his teams weren't great and winning championships. However, it's hard to argue against his resume. Mike Brown is a good coach, and his system can work- he just needs better players. It's hard to stop Rashard Lewis with Andy Varajeo and Wally Szerbiak, and hard to stop Howard with Z. People can blame it on Brown all they want, but it's not like anyone had any other ideas to help stop it. When you don't have the skill set, you don't have the skill set, it has nothing to do with coaching.
Its hard to stop Rashard Lewis? The guy shoots jumpers all day, you guys seriously have to be the most overrated defensive team ever. Amazing defense vs the lower echelon teams but confused erratic defensive schemes vs good ones.
You can honestly say its hard to "Stop" players that are as versatile as Kobe and lebron but stop giving rashard that much credit to channel embarrassment away.
The way I see it, Mike Brown is more of a cheerleader than a coach, actually most have called that since his first season in cleveland.
When PJ wins 6 championships with Jordan, you may call it luck due to the GOAT. But the fact he translated that to a diff team, won with them, went through a crisis with his two best players, regrouped, and got them to the finals two straight years is just about as legit as it gets bud.
People SEVERELY underrate coaching, it is almost just as important as the actual players on your roster.
JoeTait75
06-11-2009, 05:46 PM
Its hard to stop Rashard Lewis?
Apparently. The Lakers aren't exactly stopping him either. The guy is a 6'10" shooting guard, he's tough to match up with.
Brown is basically Rick Adelman
As much as I have hated on that stubborn little fucker this season, Brown doesn't even come close. Its a disgrace to mention them in the same sentence. Look at what RA does with nobodies every year and vs the lakers this year.
Aaron Brooks
Shane Battier
Ron Artest
Luis Scola
Chuck Hayes
Giving one player the ball everytime and expecting him to work magic is a paradox when couped with RA's teachings of team play. So even in their style of coaching what illogical comparison are you trying to make?
Apparently. The Lakers aren't exactly stopping him either. The guy is a 6'10" shooting guard, he's tough to match up with.
The Lakers aren't exactly your "Defensive team of the year"
And they have Pau Gasol on him. Tell me when Pau comes out to contest his 3.
Spurs Brazil
06-11-2009, 05:56 PM
Plain Dealer Says Brown Reports Are False
According to multiple team sources that spoke with Brian Windhorst of the Plain Dealer, reports that Mike Brown's job is in jeopardy are false.
The Cavs are indeed in a period of evaluation right now and are conducting meetings in which there is sometimes intense discussions. But Brown continues to have the backing of the organization's leaders and decision makers.
ProBasketballNews.com and the New York Daily News independently broke similar stories on Wednesday evening.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59739/20090611/plain_dealer_says_brown_reports_are_false/
Plain Dealer Says Brown Reports Are False
According to multiple team sources that spoke with Brian Windhorst of the Plain Dealer, reports that Mike Brown's job is in jeopardy are false.
The Cavs are indeed in a period of evaluation right now and are conducting meetings in which there is sometimes intense discussions. But Brown continues to have the backing of the organization's leaders and decision makers.
ProBasketballNews.com and the New York Daily News independently broke similar stories on Wednesday evening.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59739/20090611/plain_dealer_says_brown_reports_are_false/
Anyone that has common sense knows he won't get fired. Lebron won't let him be, he would leave so fast. They have a strong relationship.
JamStone
06-11-2009, 06:00 PM
I find you of all people telling me to get a sense of humor funny. I have the best sense of humor on the board and I've wanted to tell you to lighten up about 50 times on here but deleted it because I didn't want to offend you. I think I posted it 5 times in the ECF Rating thread but chose to edit it out because I didn't want to hurt your feelings.
At least you think something is funny. You can make fun of me all you want. Have it at, Dan. I post stupid shit all the time.
And why would you worry about offending anyone or hurting anyone's feelings on a messageboard?
I get into plenty of disagreements and I've been told that I'm butt hurt before on these very boards. And, I've gone overboard in discussions before. Oh well. But you are getting butt hurt over people cracking about the Cavs head coach looking clueless, like they're making fun of your sun. You started a fucking thread about how LeBron is more popular than Kobe after LeBron lost in the playoffs. Yes, you should lighten the fuck up.
If you want more humor, go back and read some of your current posts. They're absolutely hilarious.
Thunder Dan
06-11-2009, 06:30 PM
And why would you worry about offending anyone or hurting anyone's feelings on a messageboard?
because I'm so classy and I do what Jesus would do
YellowFever
06-11-2009, 07:03 PM
Brown and Rivers = Two shitty coachs gifted with some very good assistant coaches.
Brown and Rivers = Two shitty coachs gifted with some very good assistant coaches.
I can't believe TT isnt a head coach yet. He would be top five in the league.
redzero
06-11-2009, 08:12 PM
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/redzero/mikebrowncoachoftheyear.gif
How to win coach of the year:
1.) Have LeBron James on your team.
2.) Wear a suit.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/redzero/mikebrowncoachoftheyear.gif
How to win coach of the year:
1.) Have LeBron James on your team.
2.) Wear a suit.
Check.
Check.
Oh, and have your asst coaches do all the work.
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