There's a Cat Killer out there!

[tlongII]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/11/florida.cats.killed/index.html

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/CRIME/06/11/florida.cats.killed/art.cat.jpg
The death and mutilation of Tommy the cat has been linked to a serial pet killer, say police in Miami, Florida.

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- He was black and white, the perfect gift for the 6-year-old daughter of Donna and Ronald Gleason. His name was Tommy.

The black and white tuxedo cat was one of a dozen pets that have been killed and mutilated recently by someone in the Miami area, police said.

On Thursday, the list of confirmed cat deaths and mutiliations grew to 19 pets, police said. They are looking into another 14 feline fatalities.

The Gleasons do not want their daughter's name to be published. Donna Gleason asked the child to leave the room before telling CNN the gruesome details of what happened to their cat.

"Part of his skin was missing underneath ... and part of his legs," Gleason said. "He was partially skinned."

Miami-Dade County police say Tommy's demise is part of a string of sadistic feline fatalities that have occurred recently in the Cutler Bay and Palmetto Bay areas of southern Miami-Dade County, south of Miami.

Miami-Dade Police spokesman Bobby Williams said two of the cat carcasses were "posed." He said that anyone capable of such cruelty toward and torture of an animal "is disturbed at some sort of level."

The crimes began May 13. A reward of up to $10,000 has been offered for any information leading to an arrest.

Police have been inundated with dozens of phone calls from people who have discovered dead cats throughout the community. Investigators have determined that most of the cases are not related to the string of cat killings. The number grew from 12 to 15 to 19 in just the past two days.

Ronald Gleason found Tommy lying in their yard May 25. At first, he thought his family's pet had been killed by a dog, but a closer look revealed the cruelty behind his death.

Tommy was a gift for the Gleasons' little girl. She desperately wanted a cat, Donna Gleason said. She searched for a cat that could get along with their dog, but none of the shelter cats they brought home was compatible.

"We prayed that we would find a nice cat that liked our dog, and a few days later, he just showed up at our front door," Donna Gleason said. Tommy was adopting them.

The Gleasons put signs up in the neighborhood, and when no one claimed him, they kept Tommy.

"It's disturbing to know that this happened right in front of your house, while you're sleeping inside," Donna Gleason said. "I'm not terrified, but I'm not sleeping as well as I used to."

Others in south Miami-Dade County are telling similar stories. A woman whose Siamese mix cat, Caesar, was killed and mutilated didn't want her name published.

"This person killed my cat. He doesn't need to know anything else about me," she said. "I don't know if it's a gang initiation thing or a satanic ritual thing, but to do what he's doing, he has to be extremely sick."

The month-long cat-killing spree has police concerned.

"We're telling people to be aware where their cats are at. Keep your pets inside," said Williams, the police spokesman.

"If anyone looks or acts suspicious, call police," he added. "Have us come out there and check them out. This could be the missing link we're looking for."

For the Gleasons and 11 other cat owners, it's too late. All they can do is break the news gently to a little girl who always wanted a kitty.

"She loved him and played with him every morning. ... She just misses him," Donna Gleason said.

"We told her that Tommy was killed by an animal," she said.

Then she added, "Well, an animal did kill him."

[ace3g]

sick bastard, who gets off mutilating and killing animals.

[Bender]

maybe someone will do the same to whoever it is.

[caribbean_spur]

The question is: what happens when he/she cannot find a cat to kill?

[chode_regulator]

The question is: what happens when he/she cannot find a cat to kill?

I was gonna say who cares, their cats (I dont really care for cats at all)? But I think Ive read somewhere that killing/maiming animals is a tell tale sign of a person who has it in them to be a serial killer. Not saying whoever it is will be or is a serial killer but I think its one of the signs.

[Udokafan05]

People who abuse or kill animals are low lifes who need to be mutilated themselves. The B.S part of it is, if caught, they will only serve a couple of years, when they deserve the electric chair.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/thatsnice_cat.jpg

[v2freak]

sick bastard, who gets off mutilating and killing animals.

Word. That's incredibly disgusting

[Laker Lanny]

I don't consider animal abuse to be that heinous of a crime.
I think it was ridiculous that Vick was put away for 2 years. Humans are the apex predators on Earth so we get to do pretty much whatever we want.


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_IA5nokOFh84/SG1KY01A04I/AAAAAAAABmo/646keTwdTTY/pot-kettle.jpg

[caribbean_spur]

I was gonna say who cares, their cats (I dont really care for cats at all)? But I think Ive read somewhere that killing/maiming animals is a tell tale sign of a person who has it in them to be a serial killer. Not saying whoever it is will be or is a serial killer but I think its one of the signs.

Yeah, from what I heard, it starts with bed wetting, little arson, animal killing and then onto serial killer.

I live nearby, I am not scared or anything, but it is something to keep in mind.

[LnGrrrR]

I was gonna say who cares, their cats (I dont really care for cats at all)? But I think Ive read somewhere that killing/maiming animals is a tell tale sign of a person who has it in them to be a serial killer. Not saying whoever it is will be or is a serial killer but I think its one of the signs.

It can be, due to a lack of empathy shown on the part of the killer.

[JudynTX]

:( Sick bastards is right! We have our own cat serial killers in SA. :bang

[tlongII]

People who abuse or kill animals are low lifes who need to be mutilated themselves. The B.S part of it is, if caught, they will only serve a couple of years, when they deserve the electric chair.

You have got to be kidding me...

:rolleyes

[Bender]

You have got to be kidding me...
who's kidding? Anybody that gets off on torturing animals deserves whatever.

What's the matter tlong, you think a cat mutilator is a worthwhile, productive member of society?

[tlongII]

who's kidding? Anybody that gets off on torturing animals deserves whatever.

What's the matter tlong, you think a cat mutilator is a worthwhile, productive member of society?

So anybody that kills a cat deserves the electric chair? Gotcha. :rolleyes:

[z0sa]

So anybody that kills a cat deserves the electric chair? Gotcha. :rolleyes:

the moral of the story is don't fuck with people's cats bro. You may not like what the owner thinks is just punishment.

[Bender]

So anybody that kills a cat deserves the electric chair? Gotcha.

way to miss the entire point of the discussion. It's not ONLY about killing A cat, it's about mutilating and torturing LOTS of cats.

I never said the electric chair was the correct punishment, but a slap on the wrist and a small fine isn't enough. Sorry.

[MiamiHeat]

the moral of the story is don't fuck with people's cats bro. You may not like what the owner thinks is just punishment.

this coming from the same guy who argues in the god threads

hey, you stole 50 bucks from my wallet. I want 2,000 dollars compensation and 10 years in prison.

if you don't like it, don't steal from my wallet. you may not like what the owner thinks is just punishment. :lol:lol

son, we left that sort of thinking back in the bronze age.

[Leetonidas]

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/thatsnice_cat.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/pwnjoo1/1241629308823.jpg

[Obstructed_View]

I'm curious how the guy gets into these people's houses in order to kill their cats.

[Wild Cobra]

Why does so much stupid and sick stuff happen in Miami-Dade county?

[King]

He was caught - 18 year old kid.

[mookie2001]

electric chair??
ROFLROFL














im for dog and cat genocide

[z0sa]

this coming from the same guy who argues in the god threads

hey, you stole 50 bucks from my wallet. I want 2,000 dollars compensation and 10 years in prison.

if you don't like it, don't steal from my wallet. you may not like what the owner thinks is just punishment. :lol:lol

son, we left that sort of thinking back in the bronze age.

you're an obsessed idiot.

[sabar]

Put these sickos in prison for life. I don't care if you think that pets are no more worthy than the bugs you step on, because I know you wouldn't let your child anywhere near these whack-jobs. And if you would, you can go to prison with the guy for being a crappy parent.

[boutons_deux]

"gets off mutilating and killing animals"

Lots of people get off killing animals (deer, ducks, pigs, turkeys, cows). Putting a bullet or arrow through an animal is apparently as titillating as it is mutilating.

[Bender]

I guess I should have known some anti-hunting bleeding heart would compare shooting a deer with torturing/mutilating a cat for fun...

[manufan10]

Hunting for food is different than killing a cat for fun.

[Bender]

Miami-Dade County Commissioner Katy Sorenson, who represents the area, called him ``twisted and depraved, somehow really not right as a human being.''

Akers said she was surprised a kid from the neighborhood committed the killings. Still, she said, Weinman should receive a stiff sentence for what he did to his feline victims.

''I'm glad he's 18, because now he can be tried as an adult,'' she said. ``If he's in prison for life, that would suit me just fine.''

there ya go, tlong (and boutons)

[sonic21]

it's not really killing if it's not the cat's 9th life.

oh and sick bastard!! hope you're going to jail.

[manufan10]

it's not really killing if it's not the cat's 9th life.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk308/Hikaruhime17/Funny%20Animals/CatHas8Lives.jpg

[tlongII]

Oh sure. Let's send an 18 year old to prison for life for killing some cats.

[z0sa]

Oh sure. Let's send an 18 year old to prison for life for killing some cats.

He didn't just kill them. He tortured and mutilated them.

My first cat, by the name of Dude, suddenly went missing a couple years ago when I let him out to roam a little. We were very close. He slept by my pillow almost every night I had him for. I wonder if a similar fate befell him and it sickens me to do so. If I ever found out a nearby senior in high school fucking tortured him ... oh the anger.:ihit

[Bender]

what's the point of arguing anymore with people like tlong? People like him think this guy is just a normal guy having a little fun, although in a bad way.

This dude is a sick, twisted individual with something wrong with him (the cat mutilator, not tlong).

maybe the jury will slap the guy with a $500 fine or 30 days in jail and tlong will be happy. Hopefully though, the jury will be made up of normal people with normal sensibilities.

If I had to put money on whether this guy will grow up to be the CEO of a large, successful corporation, or another Ted Bundy, well you know which I would pick.

[JudynTX]

Who would want to hurt this little guy?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/ladyspur/kitten.jpg

[manufan10]

This dude is a sick, twisted individual with something wrong with him (the cat mutilator, not tlong).



The same could be said of tlong for "accepting" this kind of behavior.

[Bender]

I agree, but I was being nice.

[FaithInOne]

You've really got to be a different kind of cat to be able to carry out such actions on such an innocent creature.

[tlongII]

The same could be said of tlong for "accepting" this kind of behavior.

I never said I "accepted" this behavior. The behavior certainly doesn't warrant life imprisonment though.

[mookie2001]

i guess yall never worked or lived on a ranch or farm? killing animals (not for food) is part of the job

[mookie2001]

The behavior certainly doesn't warrant life imprisonment though
true

[Bender]

i guess yall never worked or lived on a ranch or farm? killing animals (not for food) is part of the jobwrong. The whole meaning of this incident is that he caught cats and 1. gouged their eyes out and or 2. cut off their noses and or 3. partially skinned them and or 4. whatever else his sicko mind thought of.

shooting rodents and other pest animals on a ranch is NOT THE SAME.

when a domestic, pet cat comes up to you to get its ears scratched or whatever, and then you mutilate it and kill it... you are a fucking sick bastard.

[resistanze]

I wouldn't mind if that kid gets locked away for life.

I don't give a shit about animals, but any 18 year old who skins and mutilates cats in his free time doesn't deserve freedom.

[caribbean_spur]

Ok , he might not deserve life in prison, but this guy needs to be put in an institution. Someone who mutilate 30 something cats is a total whack job and needs to be put in a mental institute. Who knows what/who he will kill next.

[Cry Havoc]

I never said I "accepted" this behavior. The behavior certainly doesn't warrant life imprisonment though.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/15/florida.cat.killer.arrest/index.html

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/CRIME/06/15/florida.cat.killer.arrest/art.cat.suspect.jpg

A teenager is being held on 19 counts of animal cruelty linked to a month-long killing spree of pet cats in the Miami area, police said. Tyler Hayes Weinman, 18, also is charged with 19 counts of improper disposal of dead animals and four counts of burglary, police said.

Weinman lives in Cutler Bay and has lived with his parents in Palmetto Bay, the two towns where police said 19 cats were mutilated and killed.

Pet owners and police began discovering disfigured cats May 13. One pet owner, Donna Gleason, said her family cat, Tommy, was "partially skinned" and left dead in her yard.

Police said 34 cats have been found dead in the towns, but only 19 mutilated cats could be linked to a serial killer. Police confirmed that some of the cats were killed by dogs, said Maj. Julie Miller of Cutler Bay police.

Weinman, who works odd jobs but spends most of his time at home and unemployed, had been a person of interest for several weeks, Miller said. He was arrested Saturday.

The police are looking into whether any people Weinman associates with might have been accomplices in the killings. Weinman's sealed juvenile record includes two prior offenses, Miller said.

He could face a maximum of 158 years in state prison if convicted on all counts, said Terry Shavez, spokeswoman for the state attorney's office.

The mayor of Cutler Bay referred to the string of feline attacks as a "plague in South Miami-Dade."

"The cruelty of these crimes were horrific for the animal victims, but there were many human victims as well," Mayor Paul Vrooman said.

"Let's not forget the children and the families who found their pets mutilated. These awful scenes inflicted a human toll."


--------


So what do you think is adequate punishment?

Do you realize that psychologically speaking, individuals who hurt animals are EXTREMELY likely, almost guaranteed, to abuse people as well? This isn't just some guy getting his jollies off. He's hurting defenseless creatures. That hints at a far darker mindset than you appear to be thinking about.

I should point out that this individual is just a suspect and has not been convicted yet. There is a video of his initial court appearance on the CNN link.

[mookie2001]

Police confirmed that some of the cats were killed by dogs
sickos

[tlongII]

My dad told me that he used to tie 2 cats tails together and throw them over a clothesline when he was a kid in Tennessee. Should he be executed too?

[tlongII]

O0qMT2YBIcg

[Cry Havoc]

O0qMT2YBIcg

Relevance?


My dad told me that he used to tie 2 cats tails together and throw them over a clothesline when he was a kid in Tennessee. Should he be executed too?

:sleep

Way to be an idiot to intentionally not respond to the question.

[TDMVPDPOY]

its bs if his getting 150yrs

sometimes i think being a fkn pet, you get better rights and treated better than a human being.

eg. if ur a dog u go up to the president, you likely get cuddled or play fetch

if ur a person, a nobody you probably get a punch in the face by SS.

[Cry Havoc]

its bs if his getting 150yrs

sometimes i think being a fkn pet, you get better rights and treated better than a human being.

eg. if ur a dog u go up to the president, you likely get cuddled or play fetch

if ur a person, a nobody you probably get a punch in the face by SS.

Talk about a completely inept analogy.

What do you think the chances are of a dog attempting to assassinate the president? And even saying that, it is doubtful a stray dog or ANY large dog could approach the president without SS members right there in case something happens. A trained attacker could kill the president if he got within arms reach of him in seconds. My goodness man, THINK before you make such silly comparisons!

It's expressly against the law to hurt animals. He probably won't get life, but I PROMISE you that if he tortured and maimed PEOPLE before killing them, life would be the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM sentence he could hope for. If he is indeed convicted of this, the judge will hand out a sentence that goes in accordance with the severity of the crime. He individually tortured over a dozen animals. What kind of person do you really think he is?

[mavs>spurs2]

Mutilating animals is usually the first step..

[manufan10]

What kind of person do you really think he is?

Not a person that is doing something for society. He's unemployed and stays home all day.


Weinman, who works odd jobs but spends most of his time at home and unemployed

He deserves whatever punishment he gets, and then some.

[Udokafan05]

He could face a maximum of 158 years in state prison if convicted on all counts, said Terry Shavez, spokeswoman for the state attorney's office.



Please let this happen.

[tlongII]

He killed a bunch of cats.

[Cry Havoc]

He killed a bunch of cats.

Are you going to answer the question of what you feel is apt punishment, or dodge it and post more random youtube videos?

[tlongII]

Are you going to answer the question of what you feel is apt punishment, or dodge it and post more random youtube videos?

Apt punishment would be a fine and probation.

[Cry Havoc]

Apt punishment would be a fine and probation.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd you're an idiot.

The law could not disagree with you more thoroughly in this instance. Even killing and torturing a single animal is grounds for imprisonment, and for a very good reason.

[MiamiHeat]

Not a person that is doing something for society. He's unemployed and stays home all day.



He deserves whatever punishment he gets, and then some.

the kid is 18, unemployed? lol, give him a break.

[manufan10]

the kid is 18, unemployed? lol, give him a break.

So he sits at home being a lazy ass all day. He doesn't deserve a break. Then, he gets his pleasure from torturing and killing cats. Again, he doesn't deserve a break.

[tlongII]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd you're an idiot.

The law could not disagree with you more thoroughly in this instance. Even killing and torturing a single animal is grounds for imprisonment, and for a very good reason.

You're a dumbass. You asked me what I thought apt punishment was, not what the courts say.

[manufan10]

MIAMI — A judge in Miami has released a teenager accused of more than a dozen cat killings from jail.

Tyler Hayes Weinman had already posted bond before Wednesday's hearing, but the judge would not release him until the 18-year-old's psychiatric evaluation could be reviewed.

Judge John Thornton released Weinman after a brief hearing, saying the teen was "competent" to be released under electronic monitoring. Thornton said Weinman would be allowed to attend the counseling recommended by a doctor.

Weinman's father and stepmother left the courtroom without comment.

Weinman is accused of a string of cat mutilation killings that terrorized two suburban Miami communities for about a month.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526864,00.html

[Cry Havoc]

You're a dumbass. You asked me what I thought apt punishment was, not what the courts say.

And there have been several statements in this thread expressing exactly WHY he should go to jail, which are mostly the reason for the law being in place.

Hearing the opinions of those more well-versed in the subject than you offering sound rationale on a topic and then maintaining your own uneducated opinion without explaining why or how you feel this way?

Sorry. That's moronic. You can't even debate the issue because your basic defense is, "It was just a bunch of cats." It's hilarious that you know you cannot maintain any sort of reasonable argument (because there is absolutely no support for your opinion) yet you're doggedly sticking to a completely biased opinion with no basis in reality. You can have an opinion and it is still a stupid one. If I ask you what's a fit punishment for someone who beat their wife until she was in the hospital, and you say, "a slap on the wrist", the fact that it's your own belief does not remove the lack of thought that accompanies said opinion.

[F@#K You]

8 yrs ago a girl showed me pictures of her boyfriend and his friends fucking a cat... the thought still makes me sick.. she was/still is a teacher

[Spurtacus]

This guy better get more time than Vick.

[Bender]

this other guy got off scot free...

"she loved her cat more than me... so I stomped and kicked the cat to death"

hung jury (http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5894865&page=1)

edit: not that kind of "hung" Panda...

[mookie2001]

its just a bunch of cats
people shouldve kept their animals at the house, then they couldve blasted on this dude

[tlongII]

And there have been several statements in this thread expressing exactly WHY he should go to jail, which are mostly the reason for the law being in place.

Hearing the opinions of those more well-versed in the subject than you offering sound rationale on a topic and then maintaining your own uneducated opinion without explaining why or how you feel this way?

Sorry. That's moronic. You can't even debate the issue because your basic defense is, "It was just a bunch of cats." It's hilarious that you know you cannot maintain any sort of reasonable argument (because there is absolutely no support for your opinion) yet you're doggedly sticking to a completely biased opinion with no basis in reality. You can have an opinion and it is still a stupid one. If I ask you what's a fit punishment for someone who beat their wife until she was in the hospital, and you say, "a slap on the wrist", the fact that it's your own belief does not remove the lack of thought that accompanies said opinion.

Guess what? You're still stupid.

[mavs>spurs2]

its just a bunch of cats
people shouldve kept their animals at the house, then they couldve blasted on this dude



http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/15/florida.cat.killer.arrest/index.html

Tyler Hayes Weinman, 18, also is charged with 19 counts of improper disposal of dead animals and four counts of burglary, police said.

Looks like he did break in some of the houses to steal the cats

[mavs>spurs2]

I don't think killing a cat is the biggest deal in the world but it's just the thought behind it that gets me. Why would you get off to something like that? I mean, it just doesn't make sense it's pretty sick. I've seen a few documentaries about the mind of a serial killer and from what I've learned in psychology, this is usually the mark of a future serial killer.

[Udokafan05]

"Judge John Thornton released Weinman after a brief hearing, saying the teen was "competent" to be released under electronic monitoring."

Seriously, the dumbass is "competent". The low life piece of shit will probably put cat food on his front porch so he can mutilate some more. Just another sign of how flawed the justice system is.

[mookie2001]

if he could do that ^

its another sign of the irresponsible pet owners and stray cat problem we have in this country i could walk outside right now and kill 3 in about 5 minutes

[Bender]

judge released him and said that he posed no danger to himself or others...

hopefully "others" will pose a danger to this wacko.

[tlongII]

I doubt that the kid posed a threat to the community. He tortured and killed a bunch of cats. BFD.

[Cry Havoc]

Guess what? You're still stupid.

Yep. And all the psychological research that's been conducted that points to this man being at extreme risk for hurting/torturing/killing a person is bunk.

Why is it bunk? Because YOU think so. Your opinion outweighs all the evidence, all the research, and all the links that have placed people who hurt animals and people who hurt people in proximal categories. That's how damned intelligent you are. Because your thoughts are powerful enough to override all of this and see you through with conviction.

Well played, sir.

[manufan10]

According to the New York Times, "[t]he FBI has found that a history of cruelty to animals is one of the traits that regularly appears in its computer records of serial rapists and murderers, and the standard diagnostic and treatment manual for psychiatric and emotional disorders lists cruelty to animals a diagnostic criterion for conduct disorders.[33] "A survey of psychiatric patients who had repeatedly tortured dogs and cats found all of them had high levels of aggression toward people as well, including one patient who had murdered a young boy."[33] Robert K. Ressler, an agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation's behavioral sciences unit, studied serial killers and noted,"Murderers like this (Jeffrey Dahmer) very often start out by killing and torturing animals as kids."[34]

^ a b Felthous, Alan R. (1998). Aggression against Cats, Dogs, and People. In Cruelty to Animals and Interpersonal Violence: Readings in Research and Applications.. West Lafayette, Indiana: Purdue University Press. pp. 159–167.
^ "Clues to a Dark Nurturing Ground for One Serial Killer". New York Times. 1991-08-07.

[Bender]

nobody needs a PHD in psychology to know that anybody that does something like this is screwed up in the head.

[caribbean_spur]

According to the New York Times, "[t]he FBI has found that a history of cruelty to animals is one of the traits that regularly appears in its computer records of serial rapists and murderers, and the standard diagnostic and treatment manual for psychiatric and emotional disorders lists cruelty to animals a diagnostic criterion for conduct disorders.[33] "A survey of psychiatric patients who had repeatedly tortured dogs and cats found all of them had high levels of aggression toward people as well, including one patient who had murdered a young boy."[33] Robert K. Ressler, an agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation's behavioral sciences unit, studied serial killers and noted,"Murderers like this (Jeffrey Dahmer) very often start out by killing and torturing animals as kids."[34]

^ a b Felthous, Alan R. (1998). Aggression against Cats, Dogs, and People. In Cruelty to Animals and Interpersonal Violence: Readings in Research and Applications.. West Lafayette, Indiana: Purdue University Press. pp. 159–167.
^ "Clues to a Dark Nurturing Ground for One Serial Killer". New York Times. 1991-08-07.

That is why people who think it's not a big deal are wrong. It is a freaking big deal that for no reason a 18 year old boy torture and mutilate cats!

[Udokafan05]

And why we are on the story of animal abuse, all the people comparing Vick to Stallworth are a bunch of dumbasses. Vick deserved the time he got plus more, and its the courts fault for not sentencing Stallworth to a bigger sentence. It is a joke that suddenly Vick looks like a victim.

[Cry Havoc]

nobody needs a PHD in psychology to know that anybody that does something like this is screwed up in the head.

Nope. No big deal. Because tlong says so and he KNOWS ALL.

:lmao

[tlongII]

Nope. No big deal. Because tlong says so and he KNOWS ALL.

:lmao

That's the first intelligent statement you've made in this thread.

[florige]

Actually we are on a person here in Baltimore who is torturing cats. I won't go into the gruesome details, lets just say it involves a cat, a fence, and some firecrackers. I guess you can use your imagination as to what that entails.