the Gasol trade.

[poop]

lets take a moment to remember this travesty once again. here you have a franchise(Lakers) that had done a great job of surrounding their superstar with a solid supporting cast. they went from being a team that got beat up by the phoenix buns to a team competing for the West in just a few years. but they were still one peice away from putting them over the edge.
in the entire NBA at the time, if they could have chosen one player who would be so completely fitting for their team, who would be perfectly complementary to kobe, other than tim duncan, it would probably be pau gasol.
what happens then? the griz...i mean jerry west proceeds to GIVE pau gasol to the lakers in exchange for a complete proven scrub. as predicted he is perfect for the Lakers and tips them into basically unbeatable territory. unbelievable.
biggest crock of shit 'trade' probably ever. even the other coaches were pissed that something so ridiculous and unfair was even allowed.

this would literally be the equivalent of if a lifetime spurs associate were in charge of a miami or orlando, and proceeded to Give the spurs dwayne wade or dwight howard in exchange for ime udoka, and proceeded to rape the rest of the league. how would the rest of the nba feel about that?

[PBEEZY]

:repost:How many of these threads have been made??? think its time to get over it....

[Muser]

It's happened. Get the fuck over it already.

[pauls931]

I think he's trying to get pinked again.

[Banzai]

:hat

[DeadlyDynasty]

lets take a moment to remember this travesty once again. here you have a franchise(Lakers) that had done a great job of surrounding their superstar with a solid supporting cast. they went from being a team that got beat up by the phoenix buns to a team competing for the West in just a few years. but they were still one peice away from putting them over the edge.
in the entire NBA at the time, if they could have chosen one player who would be so completely fitting for their team, who would be perfectly complementary to kobe, other than tim duncan, it would probably be pau gasol.
what happens then? the griz...i mean jerry west proceeds to GIVE pau gasol to the lakers in exchange for a complete proven scrub. as predicted he is perfect for the Lakers and tips them into basically unbeatable territory. unbelievable.
biggest crock of shit 'trade' probably ever. even the other coaches were pissed that something so ridiculous and unfair was even allowed.

this would literally be the equivalent of if a lifetime spurs associate were in charge of a miami or orlando, and proceeded to Give the spurs dwayne wade or dwight howard in exchange for ime udoka, and proceeded to rape the rest of the league. how would the rest of the nba feel about that?

CJeKS0gNz48

[TheManFromAcme]

lets take a moment to remember this travesty once again. here you have a franchise(Lakers) that had done a great job of surrounding their superstar with a solid supporting cast. they went from being a team that got beat up by the phoenix buns to a team competing for the West in just a few years. but they were still one peice away from putting them over the edge.
in the entire NBA at the time, if they could have chosen one player who would be so completely fitting for their team, who would be perfectly complementary to kobe, other than tim duncan, it would probably be pau gasol.
what happens then? the griz...i mean jerry west proceeds to GIVE pau gasol to the lakers in exchange for a complete proven scrub. as predicted he is perfect for the Lakers and tips them into basically unbeatable territory. unbelievable.
biggest crock of shit 'trade' probably ever. even the other coaches were pissed that something so ridiculous and unfair was even allowed.

this would literally be the equivalent of if a lifetime spurs associate were in charge of a miami or orlando, and proceeded to Give the spurs dwayne wade or dwight howard in exchange for ime udoka, and proceeded to rape the rest of the league. how would the rest of the nba feel about that?

:deadhorse

:blah:blah:blah:blah

[redzero]

Bitching about it won't make the Lakers beatable. Bitching about it won't retroactively rescind the trade.

[ginobili's bald spot]

There is already a thread bitching about this on the first page. Why do you feel the need to make another one?

[poop]

give me a fucking break i didnt see any other threads about this!!! i made it as soon as i logged on. jesus christ fucking nazi forum police around here.

[Allanon]

Whether it's Pau Gasol or Marc Gasol, the Lakers would have been contenders either way.

As mentioned before, the Lakers were contenders prior to trading for Pau.

Pau was better for 2008 as he got the Lakers into the Finals. But this year, with Marc Gasol, the Lakers would still have been favored. And with Marc, the Lakers would have no problems signing both Ariza and Odom.

Memphis got back a very good and very $cheap$ starting Center in Marc Gasol, a #1 draft pick and an expiring contract...they made out like bandits.

[samikeyp]

Which NBA rule was broken exactly?

It sucks for a lot of us but the trade was legal.

[sedale threatt]

i'd be more interested in the fifty threads dealing with the nba conspiracy behind the gasol trade if someone would tell me why memphis made the deal. were they paid off? did someone drug their food? please explain it to me.

i'm pretty sure that they were looking for the biggest expiring contract available, which they got.

[JamStone]

NdBk3cnhtP4

Actually, I think after Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett would have been the next best complimentary guy to add to the Lakers, and then after Garnett, probably Dirk, and then after Dirk, maybe Amare. But, Gasol would have been high on the list too.

[lefty]

Which NBA rule was broken exactly?

It sucks for a lot of us but the trade was legal.


Collusion trade?

Tks to Jerry West

[samikeyp]

Collusion trade?

Tks to Jerry West

Is there a rule against collusion? (asking honestly, because I don't know)

Do we have proof it was broken.

I thought that as long as the salaries matched and the players involved pass their physicals, the trades were allowed.

Someone more knowledgable about traded and cap space can probably answer that.

[JamStone]

Collusion trade?

Tks to Jerry West

Not de facto though. If you're going to use collusion, at least be smart about it. That's what they did. Jerry West was already gone from the Memphis front office, so as shady and as suspect as it was, his hands were "technically" clean. No violation under the CBA. Plus, the NBA office could have still stopped the trade if they felt collusion was involved. They didn't.

We all know or at least think there was something very shady about it, but sam is right. There was no rule broken in the manner they handled it.

[lefty]

Is there a rule against collusion? (asking honestly, because I don't know)

Do we have proof it was broken.

I thought that as long as the salaries matched and the players involved pass their physicals, the trades were allowed.

Someone more knowledgable about traded and cap space can probably answer that.


I think there is.

But again, althought West wasn't the Grizz official GM anymore, you can suspect he had a long arm involved in the trade.
I mean, a player like Pau for nothing?

Also, McHale sending KG to his old team and former teammate (Ainge) was kind of weird, but at least he got something in return, so it's easier to accept.

ANd I'm sure David Stern didn't care either : " yes, this time we have our Lakers-Celtics finals ! :

[lefty]

Not de facto though. If you're going to use collusion, at least be smart about it. That's what they did. Jerry West was already gone from the Memphis front office, so as shady and as suspect as it was, his hands were "technically" clean. No violation under the CBA. Plus, the NBA office could have still stopped the trade if they felt collusion was involved. They didn't.

We all know or at least think there was something very shady about it, but sam is right. There was no rule broken in the manner they handled it.

I agree, technically, nothing wrong was done

[Banzai]

give me a fucking break i didnt see any other threads about this!!! i made it as soon as i logged on. jesus christ fucking nazi forum police around here.

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/hitlersnap.gif (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/hitlersnap.gif)
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/wdw.jpg (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/wdw.jpg)
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10063/Misc-Rolleyes.jpg (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10063/Misc-Rolleyes.jpg)
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/Upload/lol/LOL-Hitler_is_amused.jpg (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/Upload/lol/LOL-Hitler_is_amused.jpg)

[dirk4mvp]

Actually, I think after Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett would have been the next best complimentary guy to add to the Lakers, and then after Garnett, probably Dirk, and then after Dirk, maybe Amare. But, Gasol would have been high on the list too.

Dirk would be the best of those to go along with LeBron.

[TheMACHINE]

its collusion..i admit..i gave Jerry $50 to give us Gasol.

[lefty]

its collusion..i admit..i gave Jerry $50 to give us Gasol.
I knew it !!! :lol

[TheMACHINE]

I knew it !!! :lol

you know its true cuz i talk to Jerry in a first name bases. Sometimes i just call him "Jer".

[Chillen]

Everyone here knows that this was a trade made to please Kobe by both teams. Yes, the league got raped and the anger is justified but it was a perfectly legal trade. If franchises like Memphis want to hand their opponents "gifts" and get nothing in return for their franchise player that is up to them. West fedexed Kobe a Gasol. It's done and was perfectly legal. If they wanted to rebuild they would have taken Chicago's offer for him, this was clearly a "gift".

[DrHouse]

So was it collusion when Detroit got Rasheed Wallace for:

Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura and a future first round pick

or when the Warriors snagged Baron Davis for:

Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis

You all act like lopsided trades have never happened before. The truth of the matter is they do happen quite a bit in the NBA every other year or so. Basketball is as much about winning as it is about money, probably more about money IMHO. Teams make personnel decisions all the time that have little to do with winning.

[JamStone]

So was it collusion when Detroit got Rasheed Wallace for:

Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura and a future first round pick

Some say it was. And, it was a first round pick for that year's draft, 2004. That draft pick ended up being Josh Smith.

However, that Wallace trade was markedly different from the Gasol trade for several reasons:

1. There was no one on the Atlanta Hawk's front office or anyone recently in charge of things for the Hawks personnel who had ties with the Detroit Pistons.

2. Rasheed Wallace's contract expired when the Pistons traded for him. If the Hawks didn't trade Rasheed, he would have walked after the season for nothing. Gasol was under contract for another three seasons after the 2007-08 season when the Grizzlies traded him to the Lakers.

3. The Hawks negotiated with other teams for prospective trades involving Rasheed Wallace. Memphis didn't even tell teams that Gasol was on the block. They only dealt with the Lakers.

4. Rasheed Wallace had a bad reputation at that point that made him a risk player to trade for and one that some teams were not interested in acquiring because of his off the court issues. Gasol had no such baggage attached to him, particularly off the court, that made him a gamble to trade for.

The above reasons made that Wallace trade seem extremely reasonable compared to the Gasol trade.

[DrHouse]

Some say it was. And, it was a first round pick for that year's draft, 2004. That draft pick ended up being Josh Smith.

However, that Wallace trade was markedly different from the Gasol trade for several reasons:

1. There was no one on the Atlanta Hawk's front office or anyone recently in charge of things for the Hawks personnel who had ties with the Detroit Pistons.

2. Rasheed Wallace's contract expired when the Pistons traded for him. If the Hawks didn't trade Rasheed, he would have walked after the season for nothing. Gasol was under contract for another three seasons after the 2007-08 season when the Grizzlies traded him to the Lakers.

3. The Hawks negotiated with other teams for prospective trades involving Rasheed Wallace. Memphis didn't even tell teams that Gasol was on the block. They only dealt with the Lakers.

4. Rasheed Wallace had a bad reputation at that point that made him a risk player to trade for and one that some teams were not interested in acquiring because of his off the court issues. Gasol had no such baggage attached to him, particularly off the court, that made him a gamble to trade for.

The above reasons made that Wallace trade seem extremely reasonable compared to the Gasol trade.

And what about Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis?

The bottom line is you can't even begin to evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade right now. The Grizzlies unloaded Pau for the biggest expiring K they could find so they could rebuild.

[sook]

oh shut the fuck up already

[TheMACHINE]

Maybe memphis just wanted nothing.

[JamStone]

And what about Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis?

The bottom line is you can't even begin to evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade right now. The Grizzlies unloaded Pau for the biggest expiring K they could find so they could rebuild.

I don't really know enough about the Baron Davis trade, but on its face, it seems pretty bad. Didn't Baron Davis wear out his welcome with the Hornets and had become a malcontent? I don't know.

I personally don't have a problem with the Gasol trade having gone down. Shit happens. But, you have to acknowledge that it was shady, and it was borderline collusion. To deny that would be foolish. Memphis didn't tell any other team Gasol was on the trading block. They didn't look for any other big, expiring contract. They only dealt with the Lakers. They traded within the conference. Jerry West was the former GM for both the Lakers and the Grizzlies. You can evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade in how the trade was made and how suspiciously wrong it appeared.

And, regardless, my post was to distinguish the Rasheed trade from the Gasol trade, as you tried to compare the two. They were very much different. That was the point of my post, to draw a distinction with the Rasheed trade you tried to draw parallels with. My point wasn't to discuss the merits of the Gasol trade anyway.

[TJastal]

Some say it was. And, it was a first round pick for that year's draft, 2004. That draft pick ended up being Josh Smith.

However, that Wallace trade was markedly different from the Gasol trade for several reasons:

1. There was no one on the Atlanta Hawk's front office or anyone recently in charge of things for the Hawks personnel who had ties with the Detroit Pistons.

2. Rasheed Wallace's contract expired when the Pistons traded for him. If the Hawks didn't trade Rasheed, he would have walked after the season for nothing. Gasol was under contract for another three seasons after the 2007-08 season when the Grizzlies traded him to the Lakers.

3. The Hawks negotiated with other teams for prospective trades involving Rasheed Wallace. Memphis didn't even tell teams that Gasol was on the block. They only dealt with the Lakers.

4. Rasheed Wallace had a bad reputation at that point that made him a risk player to trade for and one that some teams were not interested in acquiring because of his off the court issues. Gasol had no such baggage attached to him, particularly off the court, that made him a gamble to trade for.

The above reasons made that Wallace trade seem extremely reasonable compared to the Gasol trade.

BLING!

As Mark Jackson would say "Jamstone delivers the pass, on POINT!"

Nice take, Jam

[DrHouse]

I don't really know enough about the Baron Davis trade, but on its face, it seems pretty bad. Didn't Baron Davis wear out his welcome with the Hornets and had become a malcontent? I don't know.

I personally don't have a problem with the Gasol trade having gone down. Shit happens. But, you have to acknowledge that it was shady, and it was borderline collusion. To deny that would be foolish. Memphis didn't tell any other team Gasol was on the trading block. They didn't look for any other big, expiring contract. They only dealt with the Lakers. They traded within the conference. Jerry West was the former GM for both the Lakers and the Grizzlies. You can evaluate the merits of the Gasol trade in how the trade was made and how suspiciously wrong it appeared.

And, regardless, my post was to distinguish the Rasheed trade from the Gasol trade, as you tried to compare the two. They were very much different. That was the point of my post, to draw a distinction with the Rasheed trade you tried to draw parallels with. My point wasn't to discuss the merits of the Gasol trade anyway.

Give me proof. All you have is theory and conjecture. And nobody has explained why the OWNERS OF THE MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES would ever allow this to happen if it were so lopsided and detrimental to them. Why would they purposefully do something like that to destroy their team and hurt revenues? If you want to blame anyone, go blame their GM Chris Wallace for not getting more.

West was almost a year or more removed as GM of Memphis. If you knew the character of the man and what he has done since he was the Laker's GM, which you obviously don't despite claiming to be a Laker fan, you would never question the man's integrity. He's the fucking Logo for a reason.

And if you really believe this crap why on earth do you watch the NBA?

[JamStone]

Give you proof of what? That Jerry West was the former GM of both the Lakers and the Grizzlies? You don't need proof of that. That the trade didn't look suspicious? You don't need proof of that. That Memphis didn't tell any other teams that Gasol was on the trading block? Several NBA GMs said as much. I'm not an insider and don't have any sources to tell me exactly what happened, but I'm pretty sure Memphis didn't even deny that they only talked to the Lakers.

Once you provide proof that Memphis told other teams that Gasol was on the trading block and that they fielded trade offers from other teams, then I'll provide proof that they didn't.

I don't question that Jerry West is a good man. I'm sure he doesn't lose sleep over the Gasol trade. And, I'm sure he doesn't feel his integrity should get called into question for any influence he had over the Gasol trade happening. People like you who never question the true nature of men are often hopelessly blind in your faith. Kobe the all American McDonald's poster boy could never do any wrong. You probably ate that shit up. Part of you probably is still in denial that Kobe actually sexually assaulted that girl in Colorado. It's that same blind faith that tells your value system that there's no way in the world that Jerry West could have been involved in the trade. He's a man of supreme integrity. If that's how you feel, good for you. I know that even a good man has his character flaws, his evil vices. I don't think Jerry West is a bad person or a man without integrity. But, I don't believe for a second his character wouldn't allow him to do something like help orchestrate the Gasol trade.

I watch and follow the NBA because I like basketball. I enjoy watching basketball. I actually don't care if there was collusion with the Gasol trade. I just got into the topic because you gave a poor example to compare the Rasheed trade with the Gasol trade, so I was correcting you. And then I gave my opinion in response to your post. Good for the Lakers for making the Gasol trade. If any other team could have done it, they would have too. I don't blame the Lakers for making the trade or taking advantage of suspicious means in order to consummate the trade. It's not a big deal to me. I think Kobe sexually assaulted that girl in Colorado but I'm still a fan of him as a basketball player. I watch basketball for the basketball, not for players to always demonstrate great character. I still would rather watch Kobe and Shaq than Shane Battier and Emeka Okafor. I'm not an NBA conspiracy theory type fan. I don't think the entire league is rigged. But, I am not blind to the shady things that go on either. I still watch despite that because I like basketball.

[TJastal]

Give me proof. All you have is theory and conjecture. And nobody has explained why the OWNERS OF THE MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES would ever allow this to happen if it were so lopsided and detrimental to them. Why would they purposefully do something like that to destroy their team and hurt revenues? If you want to blame anyone, go blame their GM Chris Wallace for not getting more.

West was almost a year or more removed as GM of Memphis. If you knew the character of the man and what he has done since he was the Laker's GM, which you obviously don't despite claiming to be a Laker fan, you would never question the man's integrity. He's the fucking Logo for a reason.

And if you really believe this crap why on earth do you watch the NBA?

Ahh, the old "give me proof" line. Its a mountain of circumstantial evidence pal. Which should have been enough to raise doubts for the league to step in and rescind this fiasco.

[Gino]

I wouldnt worry about things too much.

Things will even out. The Lakers wont be able to keep Odom, Im guessing.

Let em have their trophy. Without Odom the Lakers wont be collectively good enough to compensate for Kobe's selfishness and bone-head plays.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I wouldnt worry about things too much.

Things will even out. The Lakers wont be able to keep Odom, Im guessing.

Let em have their trophy. Without Odom the Lakers wont be collectively good enough to compensate for Kobe's selfishness and bone-head plays.

smartest thing you've said all day

[TJastal]

The funny thing about all this is that if they would have entertained other trade offers with other teams there is no way it would have ever looked "LEGIT". Can you imagine the better offers they could have gotten for Gasol? They would have looked like clowns taking Lakers scrubs and crapola.

They had to do this hush-hush and under the table.

[TJastal]

I wouldnt worry about things too much.

Things will even out. The Lakers wont be able to keep Odom, Im guessing.

Let em have their trophy. Without Odom the Lakers wont be collectively good enough to compensate for Kobe's selfishness and bone-head plays.

I wouldn't speak too soon, Odom has already stated on record he will take less $$ to stay in LA.

[poop]

great posts by Jamstone.

lets see...the '07 finals had horrible ratings; ratings were down in general previous years, and bottomed in '07.

but im sure it was just a coincidence that the following year, the lakers recieve Gasol in one of the most shady, controvertial 'trades' in NBA history. And im also sure that the boston celtics-through several blockbuster trades-had the biggest most sudden overnight turnaround in NBA history following decades of mediocrity happened the same year entirely by chance, setting up a miraculously convenient Lakers-Celtics rivaly rebirth, and that the third biggest market (chicago) defied the odds to win the draft lottery.

im sure all these incredible things just happened to occur, all at the same time, at a time when the league needed it the most, entirely by chance.

just a coincidence im sure.

[DeadlyDynasty]

great posts by Jamstone.

lets see...the '07 finals had horrible ratings; ratings were down in general previous years, and bottomed in '07.

but im sure it was just a coincidence that the following year, the lakers recieve Gasol in one of the most shady, controvertial 'trades' in NBA history. And im also sure that the boston celtics-through several blockbuster trades-had the biggest most sudden overnight turnaround in NBA history following decades of mediocrity happened the same year entirely by chance, setting up a miraculously convenient Lakers-Celtics rivaly rebirth, and that the third biggest market (chicago) defied the odds to win the draft lottery.

im sure all these incredible things just happened to occur, all at the same time, at a time when the league needed it the most, entirely by chance.

just a coincidence im sure.

If you suspect foul play then STOP WATCHING. Do you realize how pathetic you look when you cry foul, yet continue to watch?

[Rogue]

The Lakers just promoted Gasol from their D-League companion, that's not even a trade not to mention a robbery or some.

[TJastal]

The Lakers just promoted Gasol from their D-League companion, that's not even a trade not to mention a robbery or some.

+1

I'm sure O.J Mayo is next on thei radar. Just when the poor dolt Grizz fans think their team is getting somewhere, *poof* OJ Mayo gone, and the pundits will all tell us the grizzlies back to their "rebuilding" plans.

:lol

[TheMACHINE]

+1

I'm sure O.J Mayo is next on thei radar. Just when the poor dolt Grizz fans think their team is getting somewhere, *poof* OJ Mayo gone, and the pundits will all tell us the grizzlies back to their "rebuilding" plans.

:lol

good idea..let me give my boy Jer another 50 bucks

[DrHouse]

Nobody has answered the following question.

Why would the Memphis organization purposefully shoot itself in the foot by making a "lopsided" trade that hurts revenues? If we can all agree money is the bottom line for any franchise, why does Memphis do this?

You can't answer this question because it doesn't fit into your neat little conspiracy theory. The bottom line is Gasol was not cutting it as the main man in Memphis. It was clear they weren't going to win with him, a trade had to be made. Now when a team is in this situation they do one of two things: they either trade for equivalent talent coming back or they get draft picks and expirings so they aren't burdened by more long term contracts. Clearly Memphis wanted to clear capspace and give the NEW OWNERS the flexibility to mold the team the way they wanted to. This meant they needed their GM Wallace to find the biggest expiring possible and as many draft picks as they could. The Lakers were a trading partner who fit the bill on both accounts, could a better deal have been had? Sure, but Wallace was under the gun to get a deal done quickly and he dead. If you are going to blame anyone, blame this guy for not going out there and getting a better deal.

What people don't realize is Gasol was put on the block publicly for a full year before LA got him. Chicago expressed interest but they refused to give up the kind of talent Memphis needed coming back because they overrated guys like Deng/Hinrich/Gordon/Thomas. Memphis decided to keep Gasol instead and it wasn't until their hands were forced financially that they had to make the decision to let Gasol go.

So you can call this trade whatever you want to, I agree that Memphis did not make a smart decision here. But this is the NBA, there are stupid GM's all over the place. Some dumb fuck paid Gilbert Arenas 120 million dollars.

Just don't give me this Jerry West conspiracy BS. You have no facts, evidence, or anything of the like to support that. Just hot air out of your ass because you can't stand the fact that the Lakers got better because of it.

[JamStone]

Nobody has answered the following question.

Why would the Memphis organization purposefully shoot itself in the foot by making a "lopsided" trade that hurts revenues? If we can all agree money is the bottom line for any franchise, why does Memphis do this?

You're pretty thick in the head. The fact that Memphis made such a lopsided trade that hurts revenues is precisely why there's a conspiracy theory of collusion.



You can't answer this question because it doesn't fit into your neat little conspiracy theory. The bottom line is Gasol was not cutting it as the main man in Memphis. It was clear they weren't going to win with him, a trade had to be made. Now when a team is in this situation they do one of two things: they either trade for equivalent talent coming back or they get draft picks and expirings so they aren't burdened by more long term contracts. Clearly Memphis wanted to clear capspace and give the NEW OWNERS the flexibility to mold the team the way they wanted to. This meant they needed their GM Wallace to find the biggest expiring possible and as many draft picks as they could. The Lakers were a trading partner who fit the bill on both accounts, could a better deal have been had? Sure, but Wallace was under the gun to get a deal done quickly and he dead. If you are going to blame anyone, blame this guy for not going out there and getting a better deal.

Provide proof that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with teams that also had big, expiring contracts.



What people don't realize is Gasol was put on the block publicly for a full year before LA got him. Chicago expressed interest but they refused to give up the kind of talent Memphis needed coming back because they overrated guys like Deng/Hinrich/Gordon/Thomas. Memphis decided to keep Gasol instead and it wasn't until their hands were forced financially that they had to make the decision to let Gasol go.

Let's talk about when the deal went down. Whenever that was, February 2008 I believe, where is the evidence that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with other teams at that time. Not the summer before. When the trade went down mid season. Who else did Memphis talk to about trading Pau Gasol?



So you can call this trade whatever you want to, I agree that Memphis did not make a smart decision here. But this is the NBA, there are stupid GM's all over the place. Some dumb fuck paid Gilbert Arenas 120 million dollars.

If you agree that it was a dumb move, then you should understand why people think something shady went down. Arenas got overpaid. But, he also averaged 28 ppg and 6 apg. It's not like the Wizards paid Kwame Brown a $120 million contract. Your examples to support your argument are horrible.



Just don't give me this Jerry West conspiracy BS. You have no facts, evidence, or anything of the like to support that. Just hot air out of your ass because you can't stand the fact that the Lakers got better because of it.

It's absolutely true that there is no hard evidence (that we know of) that Jerry West was involved at all in the Gasol trade. The fact it was such a horrible trade for Memphis that simply didn't make any sense is all circumstantial evidence. But, that's why fans come to that conclusion. Of course it's conjecture.

[DrHouse]

You're pretty thick in the head. The fact that Memphis made such a lopsided trade that hurts revenues is precisely why there's a conspiracy theory of collusion.




Provide proof that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with teams that also had big, expiring contracts.




Let's talk about when the deal went down. Whenever that was, February 2008 I believe, where is the evidence that Memphis explored other trade possibilities with other teams at that time. Not the summer before. When the trade went down mid season. Who else did Memphis talk to about trading Pau Gasol?




If you agree that it was a dumb move, then you should understand why people think something shady went down. Arenas got overpaid. But, he also averaged 28 ppg and 6 apg. It's not like the Wizards paid Kwame Brown a $120 million contract. Your examples to support your argument are horrible.




It's absolutely true that there is no hard evidence (that we know of) that Jerry West was involved at all in the Gasol trade. The fact it was such a horrible trade for Memphis that simply didn't make any sense is all circumstantial evidence. But, that's why fans come to that conclusion. Of course it's conjecture.

Thank you for admitting that in all of your multi-paragraph response you are simply blowing hot air out your ass.

And you still haven't answered the question of WHY the ownership would allow such a trade to go through. You think West and Wallace did this behind the back of the owners? If there was a concerted effort of collusion here then the OWNERS of the Memphis Grizzlies would HAVE to be involved.

At the end of the day this trade was nothing more than a salary dump. This isn't the first or last of its kind. The only reason it has warranted special attention is because it benefited the Lakers whom everyone hates with a violent passion.

/thread

[Ghazi]

House ur pretty dum bra

[Lars]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Gasol-080205

fuck...insider only

"
While most GMs weren't publicly venting their frustration on having missed out on Gasol, plenty were willing to do so privately.


The excuses ranged from blaming Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace to blaming their owners to … well … pointing the finger in just about every direction but their own.


One GM I spoke to asserted he had a better deal to offer, claiming that Wallace didn't return his calls.


Another said that just two weeks ago, Wallace was asking for twice as much in return. If this GM had known the Grizzlies were lowering the asking price on Gasol, he would've made another offer, he said.

"

[DrHouse]

ALL HEARSAY

Give me proof, otherwise STFU.

[lefty]

Maybe memphis just wanted nothing.
:lmao

Is Seinfeld their GM?

[cobbler]

The funny thing about all this is that if they would have entertained other trade offers with other teams there is no way it would have ever looked "LEGIT". Can you imagine the better offers they could have gotten for Gasol? They would have looked like clowns taking Lakers scrubs and crapola.

They had to do this hush-hush and under the table.

It wasn't hush hush at all. Gasol was on the trade block for months. Half the season ticket holders were demanding he be traded. The grizz followed the trailblazers process and decided to go for prospects, draft picks, and the largest expiring contract. They achieved all thier goals and are poised to build a decent team with a core of young good players.

I love how everyone talks about how soft Gasol is. How he cost the lakers the title last year. How he never won a playoff game in Memphis... and now that the Lakers are on the verge of winning it all... the tune changes, the whiney bitches come out of the woodwork and start repeating 2 year old BS claims that have yet to be proven. Get over it and admire the ....

:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:
:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:
:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2: <----- :lobt2:

[JamStone]

Thank you for admitting that in all of your multi-paragraph response you are simply blowing hot air out your ass.

And you still haven't answered the question of WHY the ownership would allow such a trade to go through. You think West and Wallace did this behind the back of the owners? If there was a concerted effort of collusion here then the OWNERS of the Memphis Grizzlies would HAVE to be involved.

At the end of the day this trade was nothing more than a salary dump. This isn't the first or last of its kind. The only reason it has warranted special attention is because it benefited the Lakers whom everyone hates with a violent passion.

/thread

I never once claimed there was hard evidence for collusion. I even made a post last night that said there was nothing technically wrong with the trade in terms of violating the CBA. All of this "conjecture" and yes it is conjecture is opinion, just like the majority of posts, including yours, on this public message board.

As for the ownership agreeing to the trade, they are ownership. I don't even know who the Grizzlies owners are. But, chances are they aren't basketball people. They hire people to make the basketball decisions. There are very few owners like Mark Cuban that get actively involved in the actual basketball decisions. Chris Wallace could just as easily told the owners it's best to deal Gasol and overhyped how good Marc Gasol and Javaris Crittenton. Who knows what happened?

The salary dump could have netted a better deal. That's the point. You haven't offered any evidence that Memphis actually fielded offers from other clubs at the same time early in January/February 2008. And, just as posted above, there have been reports by NBA GMs that Memphis didn't even make it known that Gasol was available at the time he was traded.

You want to claim that people are blowing hot air, so are you. You haven't offered any proof to show that Memphis made Gasol available to other teams at the time they traded him, that they actually fielded offers from other teams other than the Lakers. That's why there's conjecture of a shady deal and collusion. You're a diehard follower of Laker propaganda. It's your blind faith. And, the earth is flat.

[JamStone]

ALL HEARSAY

Give me proof, otherwise STFU.

Proof that there were actual talks with other clubs other than the Lakers in January/February of 2008 with respect to trading Gasol?

[JamStone]

It wasn't hush hush at all. Gasol was on the trade block for months. Half the season ticket holders were demanding he be traded. The grizz followed the trailblazers process and decided to go for prospects, draft picks, and the largest expiring contract. They achieved all thier goals and are poised to build a decent team with a core of young good players.


ALL HEARSAY

Give me proof, otherwise STFU.

[cobbler]

From the owner... not 2nd hand

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…”

more implys some shopping was done

Several sources close to the process insist West played no part, and Heisley swears, “Jerry didn’t know about the trade until after it was done.”

One source with knowledge of the process said the Bulls had made the most credible offer. For Gasol and Memphis’ Hakim Warrick, the Bulls were willing to part with Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Thabo Sefolosha, possibly Adrian Griffin and draft picks.

Heisley didn’t offer up those names, but insisted, “Chicago wouldn’t offer us any of their good, core players,” he said. “Our people told me that we weren’t able to get equal trade value for Gasol and that we needed to do a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks. It was no secret in the league that we were considering offers for him, but the Lakers were the one team that stepped up.”

[Jacko]

Who cares?

What's done is done. You people sound like my fucking annoying ass cousin who is always crying about what could have or should have been.

[Jacko]

From the owner... not 2nd hand

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…”

more implys some shopping was done

Several sources close to the process insist West played no part, and Heisley swears, “Jerry didn’t know about the trade until after it was done.”

One source with knowledge of the process said the Bulls had made the most credible offer. For Gasol and Memphis’ Hakim Warrick, the Bulls were willing to part with Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Thabo Sefolosha, possibly Adrian Griffin and draft picks.

Heisley didn’t offer up those names, but insisted, “Chicago wouldn’t offer us any of their good, core players,” he said. “Our people told me that we weren’t able to get equal trade value for Gasol and that we needed to do a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks. It was no secret in the league that we were considering offers for him, but the Lakers were the one team that stepped up.”

There you have it.

Other teams were contacted about Gasol. Nobody wanted to give up anything good so they went for a salary dump. The Lakers were one of the few times with a big enough expiring and draft picks and they landed Gasol. This shit ain't rocket science.

Oh, and most importantly. JERRY WEST AINT GOT SHIT TO DO WITH THIS.

[JamStone]

All that implies is that the owner didn't know what happened.

[DrHouse]

I find it funny that a Piston fan who claims to also be a Laker fan cares this much about the Gasol trade.

Somebody is lying

[underdawg]

All that implies is that the owner didn't know what happened.

I'm sure that other teams were reluctant to trade nothing for Gasol - just another example of the genius of the Lakers front office. They truly found a diamond in the rough in Gasol.

[JamStone]

I find it funny that a Piston fan who claims to also be a Laker fan cares this much about the Gasol trade.

Somebody is lying


I find it funny that you infer I care so much about the Gasol trade simply from me responding to the topic on a messageboard. The first time I posted in this thread was to correct you. You didn't even respond to that because you knew my correction of you trying to compare the Gasol trade to the Rasheed trade was right on point. After that, I responded to your post responding to mine. I've offered my opinion. You can infer what you want from that.

This would be akin to me saying I find it funny for a Laker fan to obsess so much about posting on a Spurs messageboard, has nervous breakdowns on a Spurs messageboard, posts repeated threads on the same topic just to talk smack to Spurs fans on a Spurs messageboard, and gets pissy angry when someone disagrees with his opinion.

By the way, this same Laker fan a few weeks ago was a Pistons fan cheerleader when that Pistons fan spoke on behalf of the Lakers in a discussion. Didn't you say some shit like, "Wow JamStone is shutting shit down?" That was you who was my cheerleader. Right, DrHouse? I'm too lazy to go find the post. Maybe you'll have enough time to delete or edit it.


EDIT: Nvm, I found it rather quickly.


Damn Jamstone laying down the law.

Excellent analysis :toast

I might be a Pistons fan and the Lakers are my second favorite team, but I'm pretty objective. I try to be pretty consistent with that. I blast the Pistons when they're bad and when they fuck up. I'm still a Pistons fan. And, I'll call it how I see it.


When you're proven wrong or stupid (which happens frequently enough), just like you were with the Rasheed trade comparison, you don't even respond and you try to flip the discussion. A better policy would be for you to admit your idiocy, then shut up.

[MiamiHeat]

How about that shitty cheap trick the Lakers pulled in the Gasol trade?

Using a retired player's contract to make the salaries match.

[Def Rowe]

How about that shitty cheap trick the Lakers pulled in the Gasol trade?

Using a retired player's contract to make the salaries match.

Man, why you so mad at the Lakers all the time. They traded you Shaq in his prime and then took Brian Grant's shit contract off your books. Then :lobt2:in Miami. Jeez.

[spurscenter]

So was it collusion when Detroit got Rasheed Wallace for:

Zeljko Rebraca, Bob Sura and a future first round pick

or when the Warriors snagged Baron Davis for:

Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis

You all act like lopsided trades have never happened before. The truth of the matter is they do happen quite a bit in the NBA every other year or so. Basketball is as much about winning as it is about money, probably more about money IMHO. Teams make personnel decisions all the time that have little to do with winning.


so this makes the Gasol trade ok?


Baron was injury prone and no one wanted him

[cobbler]

How about that shitty cheap trick the Lakers pulled in the Gasol trade?

Using a retired player's contract to make the salaries match.

Its been done numerous times by many teams in trades over the years. No revelation here. Just sour grapes.

[cobbler]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq115/cobblerphoto/sourgrapes.jpg

[DrHouse]

What about Caron Butler for Kwame Brown? Where was the outrage then?

:lmao

[Allanon]

ROFL... you cannot.... be.... serious. I hope, for your sake, that this is sarcasm.

Yes...I....AM....serious. We've gone over this like a thousand times already; you must be new ROFL.

The Lakers were ALREADY contenders WITHOUT Pau Gasol and the Lakers would have added Marc Gasol this year. Prior to the Gasol trade, the Lakers had already been a number 1 seed in the West. Ask your fellow Spurfan here (in the NBA section), most know that the Lakers had the #1 West seed even before Pau ever put on a Laker jersey.



Kobe, Lakers looking like serious contenders (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22481972/)
by Sam Smith
Thursday, January 3, 2008

But the only thing really hot now is the Lakers, who have surprisingly emerged as a legitimate championship contender with a big front line and, of course, the irrepressible Bryant.

And now the Lakers, despite being the third-youngest team in the NBA, were competing with everyone in the conference.

They beat the Suns twice, split with the Spurs and Jazz, blew out the Nuggets. And they had the weapon no one really did in Bryant. There's nothing like the great finisher, especially in the playoffs, when the game slows some and the scores are lower. None of the contenders has a better one than Bryant.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yes...I....AM....serious. We've gone over this like a thousand times already; you must be new ROFL.

The Lakers were ALREADY contenders WITHOUT Pau Gasol and the Lakers would have added Marc Gasol this year. Prior to the Gasol trade, the Lakers had already been a number 1 seed in the West.

http://www.firekite.com/store/misc/pics/owned/owned-deerango.jpg

[spursfan1000]

As much bitch assness that trade was, get over it.

[Cry Havoc]

Yes...I....AM....serious. We've gone over this like a thousand times already; you must be new ROFL.

The Lakers were ALREADY contenders WITHOUT Pau Gasol and the Lakers would have added Marc Gasol this year. Prior to the Gasol trade, the Lakers had already been a number 1 seed in the West. Ask your fellow Spurfan here (in the NBA section), most know that the Lakers had the #1 West seed even before Pau ever put on a Laker jersey.

This is ridiculous.

Without Gasol, you guys lose in the 2nd round to Houston.

[cobbler]

This is ridiculous.

Without Gasol, you guys lose in the 2nd round to Houston.

About as ridiculous as if someone said... you lose Yao and you take the Lakers to 7 games.

You have no clue what would happen. None of us do.

[NBAfan83]

I think people are seriously underating Gasols role in the lakers reaching the finals twice and winning one.

That being said, trades been done, and this kind of trade will probably happen a lot more often as more and more owners become cheaper and cheaper, and tbh with loyal enough fan bases in most teams, their not afraid of rebuilding and getting younger.

All the teams are eventually going to trade their big stars for scrubs in one time or another, this is just LA's time, i'm sure the spurs will get a steal of their own in due time, maybe not now, but in 5 years time, they might trade 3 second round picks for dwight howard, who knows?

[Allanon]

This is ridiculous.

Without Gasol, you guys lose in the 2nd round to Houston.

Marc Gasol ain't no slouch and who knows how much Bynum would have developed without Pau taking shots and minutes. Marc's a much tougher defender than Pau and the Lakers may have ditched their "soft" label.

But we'll never know, what might have been cuz it didn't happen. We do know, the pre-Pau trade Lakers were considered serious contenders.

[Ghazi]

Marc Gasol ain't no slouch and who knows how much Bynum would have developed without Pau taking shots and minutes. Marc's a much tougher defender than Pau and the Lakers may have ditched their "soft" label.

But we'll never know, what might have been cuz it didn't happen. We do know, the pre-Pau trade Lakers were considered serious contenders.

Hurts my eyes reading this shit.

[NewJerSpur]

Marc Gasol ain't no slouch and who knows how much Bynum would have developed without Pau taking shots and minutes. Marc's a much tougher defender than Pau and the Lakers may have ditched their "soft" label.

But we'll never know, what might have been cuz it didn't happen. We do know, the pre-Pau trade Lakers were considered serious contenders.

Though I see where you're coming from, Marc isn't as polished as Pau offensively (which is his biggest asset as a Laker) and although Bynum has potential (better post moves than Dwight) his injuries have set him back on the offensive side of the ball more than anything IMO....that and foul trouble.

[Allanon]

Hurts my eyes reading this shit.

What do you disagree with?

[Allanon]

Though I see where you're coming from, Marc isn't as polished as Pau offensively (which is his biggest asset as a Laker) and although Bynum has potential (better post moves than Dwight) his injuries have set him back on the offensive side of the ball more than anything IMO....that and foul trouble.

Sure, Marc isn't as polished but he's still pretty good. At 12 points (53% shooting), 7 rebounds and 1 block per game, that's impressive.

A Top 10 NBA Center already and he's a rookie.

[Rogue]

Marc Gasol ain't no slouch and who knows how much Bynum would have developed without Pau taking shots and minutes. Marc's a much tougher defender than Pau and the Lakers may have ditched their "soft" label.

But we'll never know, what might have been cuz it didn't happen. We do know, the pre-Pau trade Lakers were considered serious contenders.
Without Pau, the Lakers were a contender for lottery pick. :lol

[Allanon]

Without Pau, the Lakers were a contender for lottery pick. :lol

I think they would still have won the Championship this year if they had Marc instead of Pau, but of course, it's just my opinion..



Kobe, Lakers looking like serious contenders (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22481972/)
by Sam Smith
Thursday, January 3, 2008

But the only thing really hot now is the Lakers, who have surprisingly emerged as a legitimate championship contender with a big front line and, of course, the irrepressible Bryant.

And now the Lakers, despite being the third-youngest team in the NBA, were competing with everyone in the conference.

They beat the Suns twice, split with the Spurs and Jazz, blew out the Nuggets. And they had the weapon no one really did in Bryant. There's nothing like the great finisher, especially in the playoffs, when the game slows some and the scores are lower. None of the contenders has a better one than Bryant.

[Rogue]

Sure, Marc isn't as polished but he's still pretty good. At 12 points (53% shooting), 7 rebounds and 1 block per game, that's impressive.

A Top 10 NBA Center already and he's a rookie.
How come the Grizzlies are just a co-winner of championship with so many great players: a top 10 center in Marc Gasol, a top 5 SF in Rudy Gay and a top 5 shooting guard in O.J. Mayo? They should own the championship themselves rather than sharing it with Lakers IMHO.

[Allanon]

How come the Grizzlies are just a co-winner of championship with so many great players: a top 10 center in Marc Gasol, a top 5 SF in Rudy Gay and a top 5 shooting guard in O.J. Mayo? They should own the championship themselves rather than sharing it with Lakers IMHO.

Give 'em time, they'll be good.

[Ghazi]

Well for one, the part that insinuates the lakers would be just as good if their 3rd team all-NBA big man got replaced by a rookie.

For two, the implication that Bynum's development was somehow hindered by Gasol taking away shots and minutes. Bynum was developing fine, only thing that set him back was an unlucky injury.

And three, the Lakers were NOT considered serious contenders before the Gasol trade. They were considered a good team, not much more. And their season looked basically over when Bynum went down and they went into a tailspin.

I don't watch the Grizzlies play much :lol, but Marc mutha fuckin Gasol isn't as good a rebounder, passer, scorer than Pau... less skilled, probably not as good defensively, couldn't log the heavy minutes Pau logs, etc.

[NewJerSpur]

Sure, Marc isn't as polished but he's still pretty good. At 12 points (53% shooting), 7 rebounds and 1 block per game, that's impressive.

A Top 10 NBA Center already and he's a rookie.

He's still more of a complementary player than an All-Star calibur big like Pau. His rebounding also helped him to maintain a close to 12-point average.

[Allanon]

Well for one, the part that insinuates the lakers would be just as good if their 3rd team all-NBA big man got replaced by a rookie.

I didn't say they would be just as good. But they would be good enough. An All-Star like Pau is a luxury that makes them hands-down better than pretty much any team. Like watering a plant when it's raining.

Marc Gasol and the Lakers would still be an elite team and a contender.



For two, the implication that Bynum's development was somehow hindered by Gasol taking away shots and minutes. Bynum was developing fine, only thing that set him back was an unlucky injury.

Who knows, perhaps Bynum would have developed even more. Certainly possible.



And three, the Lakers were NOT considered serious contenders before the Gasol trade. They were considered a good team, not much more. And their season looked basically over when Bynum went down and they went into a tailspin.



Kobe, Lakers looking like serious contenders (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22481972/)
by Sam Smith
Thursday, January 3, 2008

But the only thing really hot now is the Lakers, who have surprisingly emerged as a legitimate championship contender with a big front line and, of course, the irrepressible Bryant.

And now the Lakers, despite being the third-youngest team in the NBA, were competing with everyone in the conference.

They beat the Suns twice, split with the Spurs and Jazz, blew out the Nuggets. And they had the weapon no one really did in Bryant. There's nothing like the great finisher, especially in the playoffs, when the game slows some and the scores are lower. None of the contenders has a better one than Bryant.

[Ghazi]

Sam Smith can suck my cock.

Doubt they would be good enough to win a title with Marc mutha fuckin Gasol. It's not as if they've blown out the Nuggets or Magic. Pau's played very well in the playoffs and its doubtful a rookie could replicate that production in the postseason (or the regular season). Hell the Lakers may not have home court this series if Pau was replaced w/ Marc, etc etc etc.

[Allanon]

Sam Smith can suck my cock.

Doubt they would be good enough to win a title with Marc mutha fuckin Gasol. It's not as if they've blown out the Nuggets or Magic. Pau's played very well in the playoffs and its doubtful a rookie could replicate that production in the postseason (or the regular season). Hell the Lakers may not have home court this series if Pau was replaced w/ Marc, etc etc etc.

As I said, we'll never know for sure what could have happened.

But to say they weren't contenders prior to Pau Gasol is just crazy.

[Rogue]

The Lakers should have packed Bynum with Kwame Brown and shipped them to Memphis, Bynum would have grown faster and stronger, and less injury prone had that happened. Plus that would also make this "trade" more like a trade than a robbery. However, the Lakers just signed a veteran who had almost retired and already been hired as an assistant coach of the 76ers, and patched him onto this package to make the salary matched.

[Rogue]

As I said, we'll never know for sure what could have happened.

But to say they weren't contenders prior to Pau Gasol is just crazy.
contender to what? they were working their asses off trying to gain a ticket for the playoffs, as they had always been doing since Shaq left LA. Actually they were just a contender for either a playoff ticket or a lottery pick, they didn't need to contend though. They could and had to get either one of a lottery pick or a playoff seat. :lol

[spurscenter]

This is ridiculous.

Without Gasol, you guys lose in the 2nd round to Houston.

EXACTLY

YOU TAKE GASOL OUT and teams play the lakers differently

You take Gasol out and Lakers have to come up with 15-20 PPG nightly.


LAKERS without GASOL would be out in Round 2.

Lakers without GASOL is the team Kobe wanted to leave.

[spurscenter]

As I said, we'll never know for sure what could have happened.

But to say they weren't contenders prior to Pau Gasol is just crazy.


Dude seriously?

Tell me what the Lakers did without Gasol ?


Please

[Allanon]

Dude seriously?

Tell me what the Lakers did without Gasol ?


Please

Lakers got #1 seed in the West in 2008 prior to the Gasol trade.

[Ghazi]

Lakers got #1 seed in the West in 2008 prior to the Gasol trade.

For like a couple of days when the Suns/Hornets/Spurs/Mavs/Lakers were playing hot potato with the #1 seed