Do we hold Kobe to a higher standard than any other player in NBA history?

[DrHouse]

Kobe (2009 Finals): 4 games, 44.0 min., 33.0 PPG (48/112, 43%), 5.5 RPG, 8.0 APG, 1.3 SPG, 3.8 TO
Pierce (2008 Finals): 6 games, 38.8 min., 21.8 PPG (38/88, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.2 SPG, 3.7 TO
Lebron (2007 Finals): 4 games, 42.5 min., 22.0 PPG (32/90, 36%), 7.0 RPG, 6.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 TO
Wade (2006 Finals): 6 games, 43.5 min., 34.7 PPG (65/139, 47%), 7.8 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.7 TO

Jordan (1996 Finals): 6 games, 42.0 min., 27.3 PPG (51/123, 42%), 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.0 TO
Jordan (1997 Finals): 6 games, 42.7 min., 32.3 PPG (72/158, 46%), 7.0 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.2 SPG, 2.2 TO
Jordan (1998 Finals): 6 games, 41.7 min., 33.5 PPG (70/164, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.8 SPG, 1.7 TO

[Red Hawk #21]

He's supposed to be the best player since Jordan and some retards even think he actually is better than Jordan, of course he is going to be held to a higher standard.

[z0sa]

i thought you had higher personal standards than another mj vs kobe thread

[Medvedenko]

Why..because we have a whole plethora of uneducated ball fans on this site. Too young to have watched the MJ games and only spout their expertise on what they have heard or read...no internet back in those days...

It's a shame really, KOBE=MJ in talent and as a ball player. I have been blessed as a ball fan to have watched KOBE play throughout his entire career.

[z0sa]

^^ yo, Kobe can still equal MJ. But even now that still hasn't happened. Kobe has work at that Leader thing still, the Leader thing MJ always had.

Besides 6 champs as "the man" with scottie pippen as your #2 :whine

[Red Hawk #21]

Why..because we have a whole plethora of uneducated ball fans on this site. Too young to have watched the MJ games and only spout their expertise on what they have heard or read...no internet back in those days...

It's a shame really, KOBE=MJ in talent and as a ball player. I have been blessed as a ball fan to have watched KOBE play throughout his entire career.

Mentiras, he is not. MJ>>>>Kobe. MJ took teams far less talented than Kobe's to 6 championships by Himself. Kobe won his rings as a sidekick. Kobe is only shooting 41% in the finals btw.

[Medvedenko]

Mentiras, he is not. MJ>>>>Kobe. MJ took teams far less talented than Kobe's to 6 championships by Himself. Kobe won his rings as a sidekick. Kobe is only shooting 41% in the finals btw.

Man, you're dumb....I'm talking about talent not team accomplished goals you dummy. You can't compare rings in different eras, just as you can't compare Bill Russell's rings as well. KOBE is the most talented player to ever play the game, the most fundamental as well. Why hate, MJ the player on the BULLS is > than KOBE on the Lakers. I agree...

[Rogue]

Why..because we have a whole plethora of uneducated ball fans on this site. Too young to have watched the MJ games and only spout their expertise on what they have heard or read...no internet back in those days...

It's a shame really, KOBE=MJ in talent and as a ball player. I have been blessed as a ball fan to have watched KOBE play throughout his entire career.
great point, my beloved highly-educated immigrant. Even though the great education you recieved has never given you enough knowledge about this language, you still managed to make your viewpoints pretty clear.

[Red Hawk #21]

Man, you're dumb....I'm talking about talent not team accomplished goals you dummy. You can't compare rings in different eras, just as you can't compare Bill Russell's rings as well. KOBE is the most talented player to ever play the game, the most fundamental as well. Why hate, MJ the player on the BULLS is > than KOBE on the Lakers. I agree...

No, You're retarded. You just called Kobe the "Most talented and most fundamental player to ever play the game" that post proves your a fool.

[Mel_13]

Kobe wants to be held to a higher standard. So does LeBron. They want to be in conversations about their places among the all-time greats. They crave the limelight and want to be talked about. And so they are.

[iggypop123]

kobe isnt Jordan but he is the closest thing we have and will ever see.

[Red Hawk #21]

Honestly, I think Red Hawk was right when he said I was retarded. It does take me a while to understand basic concepts, and I still have a hard time understanding that MJ>>Rapist

[LnGrrrR]

Kobe (2009 Finals): 4 games, 44.0 min., 33.0 PPG (48/112, 43%), 5.5 RPG, 8.0 APG, 1.3 SPG, 3.8 TO
Pierce (2008 Finals): 6 games, 38.8 min., 21.8 PPG (38/88, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.2 SPG, 3.7 TO
Lebron (2007 Finals): 4 games, 42.5 min., 22.0 PPG (32/90, 36%), 7.0 RPG, 6.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 TO
Wade (2006 Finals): 6 games, 43.5 min., 34.7 PPG (65/139, 47%), 7.8 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.7 TO

Jordan (1996 Finals): 6 games, 42.0 min., 27.3 PPG (51/123, 42%), 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.0 TO
Jordan (1997 Finals): 6 games, 42.7 min., 32.3 PPG (72/158, 46%), 7.0 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.2 SPG, 2.2 TO
Jordan (1998 Finals): 6 games, 41.7 min., 33.5 PPG (70/164, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.8 SPG, 1.7 TO

Yes.

Is it fair? Probably not. But that's what happens when you're one of two people considered to be the best player in basketball.

[Lars]

kobe isnt Jordan but he is the closest thing we have and will ever see.

Kobe is making a fair case to beat out Drexler on the #2 spot of all time SG.

:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

It speaks volumes on the comparison when Kobe in his prime has to be compared to Jordan past his prime, just so their numbers can be somewhat comparable..I wrote this on RealGM too, where Mr.House took this from..

[kingmalaki]

It speaks volumes on the comparison when Kobe in his prime has to be compared to Jordan past his prime, just so their numbers can be somewhat comparable..I wrote this on RealGM too, where Mr.House took this from..

Very true. The only way Kobe is held to a higher standard is when he is thrown into the GOAT convo, which none of those other players are (except for MJ). He hasn't had a GOAT series in the Finals in 6 tries. Hell, he hasn't played better than D.Wade did in the 06 Finals in any of his 6 trips there.

What Kobe is doing now is great and good enough to win a ring, but to be considered the best ever...he hasn't displayed that on the biggest stage one time in 6 years. And if you are honest, this Finals or any of the other 5 don't rank on your "best I ever saw" list.

[DrHouse]

It's clear Kobe is not on MJ's level, but he is the closest thing to him.

[NBAfan83]

One thing is for sure, years after Kobe Bryant retires, you won't hear his name pop up every nba half time show, or still hear his name, referenced the same way MJ was. People will continually try to find the next MJ, not the next Kobe Bryant.

As bad as it is to take, even if Kobe does win more rings after this, his name will never be muttered with the same respect as MJ's.

When was the last time you heard people say MJ couldn't win his rings w/out pippen?

[DrHouse]

You don't win rings by yourself. People who think that don't know shit about basketball. It takes a team, more importantly it takes a HELL of a balanced team to win championship.

No one man has ever done it by himself. Nobody.

[DeadlyDynasty]

One thing is for sure, years after Kobe Bryant retires, you won't hear his name pop up every nba half time show, or still hear his name, referenced the same way MJ was. People will continually try to find the next MJ, not the next Kobe Bryant.

As bad as it is to take, even if Kobe does win more rings after this, his name will never be muttered with the same respect as MJ's.

When was the last time you heard people say MJ couldn't win his rings w/out pippen?
his 81 points will live on forever though

[Indazone]

We look at Kobe and compare him to MJ. He's not MJ by any means. Not as many titles. Killer instinct in the finals isn't there either and he doesn't dominate like MJ in clutch moments but he could. So we sit here and hope that he could have the competive fire of MJ and do the things that MJ could do. That is a pretty high standard to aspire to and he's not there yet. Perhaps by the end of Kobe's career he might have achieved this recognition but not yet.

[DrHouse]

We look at Kobe and compare him to MJ. He's not MJ by any means. Not as many titles. Killer instinct in the finals isn't there either and he doesn't dominate like MJ in clutch moments but he could. So we sit here and hope that he could have the competive fire of MJ and do the things that MJ could do. That is a pretty high standard to aspire to and he's not there yet. Perhaps by the end of Kobe's career he might have achieved this recognition but not yet.

:lmao

You aren't rooting for Kobe at all. You are actively rooting for him to fail at every opportunity so that he can never be compared to MJ.

[NBAfan83]

You don't win rings by yourself. People who think that don't know shit about basketball. It takes a team, more importantly it takes a HELL of a balanced team to win championship.

No one man has ever done it by himself. Nobody.

That's true, but honestly watching the last two fourth quarters, where bryant wasn't the main offensive weapon, you could see that this is a Laker team that can get things done with or w/out him, it's not like they have trouble scoring on this magic team when bryant is out.

The impact of losing bryant and the impact of losing howard are huge difference. Honestly nobody else on the magic team even thinks of rebounding when dwight is around.

If you pay attention they're all running back on offence for a transition game that is non existent. BUT if you replace Bryant, with wade or Lebron, i'm sure Lakers will still get the job done. It's not like bryant is driving the lane as aggresively as he used to anyway.

[DrHouse]

That's true, but honestly watching the last two fourth quarters, where bryant wasn't the main offensive weapon, you could see that this is a Laker team that can get things done with or w/out him, it's not like they have trouble scoring on this magic team when bryant is out.

The impact of losing bryant and the impact of losing howard are huge difference. Honestly nobody else on the magic team even thinks of rebounding when dwight is around.

If you pay attention they're all running back on offence for a transition game that is non existent. BUT if you replace Bryant, with wade or Lebron, i'm sure Lakers will still get the job done. It's not like bryant is driving the lane as aggresively as he used to anyway.

Yes and if you replace D12 with a Prime Shaq or a Prime TD they could still get things done. Why the fuck do people say that? It's so stupid. Of course if you replace Kobe with LBJ or Wade the Lakers would still be good.

The Lakers are NOTHING without Kobe though. They would probably barely make the playoffs without him. That's something you just don't get unless you are a Laker fan.

[NBAfan83]

Yes and if you replace D12 with a Prime Shaq or a Prime TD they could still get things done. Why the fuck do people say that? It's so stupid. Of course if you replace Kobe with LBJ or Wade the Lakers would still be good.

The Lakers are NOTHING without Kobe though. They would probably barely make the playoffs without him. That's something you just don't get unless you are a Laker fan.

I'm not saying that Kobe is an insignificant player, I actually think he is a special player, BUT I also believe he is just another piece in the Laker championship team, rather than THE TEAM.

I just can't see myself calling the Lakers, Kobe's team. They really are more the Lakers, a team with a lot of strong points, with a weakness in the pg position and a young center who fouls a lot. Sure Kobe covers up for his team at times with his great play and clutch shots, but his team covers up for him for his bad games as well.

Although I do see Kobe nailing that game winning 3 more often than not, I would see MJ make sure that his team doesn't even get in that situation more often than not.

[DrHouse]

The Lakers ARE Kobe's team. He sets the dinner table up and everyone else feasts off of him.

[Ghazi]

Kobe had nothing to do with the Game 4 win

Absolutely nothing

[Ice009]

Kobe (2009 Finals): 4 games, 44.0 min., 33.0 PPG (48/112, 43%), 5.5 RPG, 8.0 APG, 1.3 SPG, 3.8 TO
Pierce (2008 Finals): 6 games, 38.8 min., 21.8 PPG (38/88, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.2 SPG, 3.7 TO
Lebron (2007 Finals): 4 games, 42.5 min., 22.0 PPG (32/90, 36%), 7.0 RPG, 6.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 TO
Wade (2006 Finals): 6 games, 43.5 min., 34.7 PPG (65/139, 47%), 7.8 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.7 TO

Jordan (1996 Finals): 6 games, 42.0 min., 27.3 PPG (51/123, 42%), 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.0 TO
Jordan (1997 Finals): 6 games, 42.7 min., 32.3 PPG (72/158, 46%), 7.0 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.2 SPG, 2.2 TO
Jordan (1998 Finals): 6 games, 41.7 min., 33.5 PPG (70/164, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.8 SPG, 1.7 TO


How about putting up all of Kobe's finals stats through out his career Vs all of Jordan's?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yes and if you replace D12 with a Prime Shaq or a Prime TD they could still get things done. Why the fuck do people say that? It's so stupid. Of course if you replace Kobe with LBJ or Wade the Lakers would still be good.

The Lakers are NOTHING without Kobe though. They would probably barely make the playoffs without him. That's something you just don't get unless you are a Laker fan.

true...there's Good Kobe and Evil Kobe, but I'm glad he's on our team, despite the many frustrating moments. If he wins one more game this year his sins will be absolved:lol

Seriously though, it's been a helluva ride following him since from the 96 draft, to the 3 Utah airballs, to the majestic 2000 Game 4 Finals performance, to his many amazing games against Portland, San Antonio and Sacramento, to his 81-point game, to these last two seasons and his resurgence as a leader...All the good and the bad...I feel privileged as a Laker fan to have seen him play, and hope he has a couple elite years left

[Amaso]

Mentiras, he is not. MJ>>>>Kobe. MJ took teams far less talented than Kobe's to 6 championships by Himself. Kobe won his rings as a sidekick. Kobe is only shooting 41% in the finals btw.

You act like Scottie Pippen isn't better than Pau Gasol.

[Amaso]

Kobe will never live up to MJ's legacy, even if he matches him in rings. Kobe has the same skill level, if not higher than MJ but it's just how it is. He's the closest thing we'll get though.

[Lars]

Kobe was never able to do anything without an absolutely loaded team. He has consistantly underacheived and never overacheived. Having his name mentioned in the same paragraph as Jordan is heresy.

[baseline bum]

Why..because we have a whole plethora of uneducated ball fans on this site. Too young to have watched the MJ games and only spout their expertise on what they have heard or read...no internet back in those days...

It's a shame really, KOBE=MJ in talent and as a ball player. I have been blessed as a ball fan to have watched KOBE play throughout his entire career.

No fucking way. Anyone who watched Jordan's entire career knows that ridiculous statement is horseshit.

[KSeal]

Kobe had nothing to do with the Game 4 win

Absolutely nothing

Really? So when Lewis hit a three to start overtime and then Kobe went down and hit back to back long jumpers to give the Lakers a one point lead and then later when the game was tied at 91, he attracted a double team in the post and kicked it out to Fisher for a wide open dagger three, Kobe had "absolutely nothing" to do with them winning that game, I think you're blind.

[phyzik]

The only reason Kobe is held at such a high standard, not a higher standard, is he himself wants to be like MJ. Its not a higher standard he is being held at, its THE standard when you want to be THAT guy.... and honestly, to quote a movie, he has been weighed, messured and has been found wanting.

[Amaso]

Kobe was never able to do anything without an absolutely loaded team. He has consistantly underacheived and never overacheived. Having his name mentioned in the same paragraph as Jordan is heresy.

Kobe's best accomplishment might be leading a starting lineup of Kwame Brown/Smush Parker/Luke Walton to a 47 win season.

[Ice009]

I will ask this again.

How about putting up all of MJ's finals stats and all of MJ's playoff stats and then compare them to Kobe?

Not a good post at all from the OP.

[Frenzy]

well i would just like to say...

first of all MJ is do dam likable...i never knew anyone who didn't like Mj or heard of him. Never spoken of in a negative way. It's like his game his legacy just happened. Now Bring up Kobe....people either say he's awesome or some people say... "he's good just no MJ" or "oh i hate him" i think this kobe = mj thing happen... cause people made it happen they wanted it so bad... that people just started to hate it. Most likely cause jordan was just so good people didn't want people saying kobe=mj. If kobe did = MJ i don't think you would have tons of people saying "no he's not mj" Not to mention they are not just spurs fans on this board. Fans of all teams loved jordan..... can you say that about kobe?

[hhml]

Really? So when Lewis hit a three to start overtime and then Kobe went down and hit back to back long jumpers to give the Lakers a one point lead and then later when the game was tied at 91, he attracted a double team in the post and kicked it out to Fisher for a wide open dagger three, Kobe had "absolutely nothing" to do with them winning that game, I think you're blind.

He was mocking Dr. House for creating a thread stating Kobe derserves no credit for the Lakers' win :hat

[Amaso]

well i would just like to say...

first of all MJ is do dam likable...i never knew anyone who didn't like Mj or heard of him. Never spoken of in a negative way. It's like his game his legacy just happened. Now Bring up Kobe....people either say he's awesome or some people say... "he's good just no MJ" or "oh i hate him" i think this kobe = mj thing happen... cause people made it happen they wanted it so bad... that people just started to hate it. Most likely cause jordan was just so good people didn't want people saying kobe=mj. If kobe did = MJ i don't think you would have tons of people saying "no he's not mj" Not to mention they are not just spurs fans on this board. Fans of all teams loved jordan..... can you say that about kobe?

That was pretty painful to read. But I think I get the gist of what you were saying. Kobe is polarizing guy because of Colorado and his time coming right off of MJ's retirement.

[Frenzy]

That was pretty painful to read. But I think I get the gist of what you were saying. Kobe is polarizing guy because of Colorado and his time coming right off of MJ's retirement.
dam it! i knew i should have used more periods and spacing and commas and spelling and all that jazz :depressed

But it was directed at lakers fans so i was trying to blend :hat

[underdawg]

That was pretty painful to read. But I think I get the gist of what you were saying. Kobe is polarizing guy because of Colorado and his time coming right off of MJ's retirement.

Kobe's a great player - there's no denying that regardless of anyone's opinion of him. The things that hurt Kobe are obviously some of the things he's done and I don't know if the Colorado situation hurt him more than the Shaq fiasco or the request to be traded/request to trade Bynum. Those things considered - the fact that Chicago wasn't that good before MJ and after MJ retired is more compelling than Kobe playing on LA that has had success for a long time, so it was expected that the Lakers would succeed where it was absolutely not expected that the Bulls would succeed - that's the big difference.

[DrHouse]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

[Frenzy]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

i agree....kinda like this show i watch....about this dr.... who is smart... but acts like a jerk ass...


heard of it? :lol

[underdawg]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

wow - that's news to me. When did Jordan ask to be traded and when did he cheat on his wife - are there articles that support that?

[underdawg]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

here are Kobe's shining moments:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant_sexual_assault_case

http://www.glam.com/blogs/gone_hollywood/lakers_kobe_bryant_cheats_again

http://www.newser.com/story/3276/kobe-slams-kupchak-bynum-in-bootleg-video.html

[DrHouse]

Gambling



During the Bulls' playoff run in 1993, controversy arose when Jordan was seen gambling in Atlantic City, New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_City,_New_Jersey) the night before a game against the New York Knicks.[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#cite_note-39) In that same year, he admitted to having to cover $57,000 in gambling losses,[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#cite_note-win-40) and author Richard Esquinas wrote a book claiming he had won $1.25 million from Jordan on the golf course.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#cite_note-win-40) In 2005, Jordan talked to Ed Bradley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Bradley) of the CBS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS) evening show 60 Minutes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60_Minutes) about his gambling and admitted that he made some reckless decisions. Jordan stated, "Yeah, I've gotten myself into situations where I would not walk away and I've pushed the envelope. Is that compulsive? Yeah, it depends on how you look at it. If you're willing to jeopardize your livelihood and your family, then yeah."[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#cite_note-EB-41) When Bradley asked him if his gambling ever got to the level where it jeopardized his livelihood or family, Jordan replied, "No."[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#cite_note-EB-41)


Cheating


On July 21, 2006, a Cook County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County,_Illinois), Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois) judge determined that Jordan did not owe a former lover, Karla Knafel, $5 million.[130] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#cite_note-KaK-129) Jordan had allegedly paid Knafel $250,000 to keep their relationship a secret.

Obviously it's going to be difficult to prove something like cheating, but just know his ex-wife Juanita got a $168 million dollar divorce settlement after being married to MJ for 17 years. The largest divorce settlement of any sports athlete.

Fighting with teammates
Jq6avQRL37Y

[DrHouse]

Jordan's character flaws are swept aside because he was a winner.

Ultimately all anybody ever remembers you in sports for is what you have won.

[kingmalaki]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

When did MJ ask to be traded? That's news to me. Where is the support for that one.

I recall behind the scene books coming out which mentioned how cruel he was to teammates, fighting them in practice and what not. But I rarely recall him blasting a teammate to the media or getting into it with one of them on the court, even in major instances such as the "Pippen mirainge in the playoffs" one.

[underdawg]

Jordan's character flaws are swept aside because he was a winner.

Ultimately all anybody ever remembers you in sports for is what you have won.

wow you're a moron - that video just helped explain the difference between MJ and Kobe. MJ fought with his teamates and they respected him. Kobe didn't fight with his teamates and they still don't respect him. "Phil Jackson wasn't the coach - Michael Jordan was the coach" - that just goes to show that PJ had been in the right place at the right time. I'll give you the gambling and the settlement, but you do have to admit - MJ was never arrested or tried for a crime. Steve Kerr still says that he was never motivated by anyone like he was by MJ (other players have said the same thing.) No Kobe teamates have ever said that.

[Ghazi]

Really? So when Lewis hit a three to start overtime and then Kobe went down and hit back to back long jumpers to give the Lakers a one point lead and then later when the game was tied at 91, he attracted a double team in the post and kicked it out to Fisher for a wide open dagger three, Kobe had "absolutely nothing" to do with them winning that game, I think you're blind.

Was mocking that FGT House

[Jacob1983]

Weren't Kobe's stats for the 2004 Finals really shitty?

[Medvedenko]

Yeah, and Grant, Pippen, and Phil Jackson are all on record saying Kobe is a better player than Jordan. Jordan was the most selfish, hard to get along with teammate in the history of all sports.

Jordan even faked friendships with guys like Barkely. As soon as Pippen went to the Rockets, Jordan went behind Barkely's back and told Pippen not to play with Barkely. Jordan also ran Grant out of town.

While Jordan made 30 mil a year. No other player on the team made over 5mil. Were talking guys like Ron Harper, Rodman, Pippen, Kucok. Most of you have only heard about Jordan, but his life was a mess.

I wouldnt be surprised if his father was murdered behind someone he owed from gambling.

Why argue with 13 year olds that never even seen MJ play during his prime. I hated MJ while he played, but I respected his game as any fan against the bulls in that era did as well. Stern used MJ to prop the league internationally and it was a good calculated risk. Still, if KOBE would have quit to play soccer for 2 years and then come back the internet would explode.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Gambling


Cheating


Obviously it's going to be difficult to prove something like cheating, but just know his ex-wife Juanita got a $168 million dollar divorce settlement after being married to MJ for 17 years. The largest divorce settlement of any sports athlete.

Fighting with teammates
Jq6avQRL37Y

the difference between them, one is a snitcher

[Trainwreck2100]

Not much difference between snitching and hating. When Pippen threatened to opt out of his 1.2 mil dollar a year contract. Jordan went to his media and called Pippen selfish. All the while, MJ was getting 30 mil. a year.

there's light years difference between snitching and hating. Snitching is a little pissant bitch move, it's what vaginas do. You can be a hater and not be a bitch, but snitches are bitches. All the shit MJ did he backed up. Snitching is for pussies, hating is for evurybody

[KSeal]

Was mocking that FGT House

Sorry, I have no clue what is going on in this thread.

[Trainwreck2100]

Sorry, I have no clue what is going on in this thread.

apparently eddie house is a fag and he was being mocked

[Ice009]

Where are the quotes of Grant, Pippen and Jackson saying Kobe is better than Jordan? I'd like to see them Lakaluva.

Btw I'm not really a Jordan fan. I watched a clip on Youtube where Jordan said at a camp of his that he could stop Kobe more than Kobe could stop him. That's why he'd win.

[Amaso]

Where are the quotes of Grant, Pippen and Jackson saying Kobe is better than Jordan? I'd like to see them Lakaluva.

Btw I'm not really a Jordan fan. I watched a clip on Youtube where Jordan said at a camp of his that he could stop Kobe more than Kobe could stop him. That's why he'd win.

I know Pippen and Jackson have said it before, I don't remember Horace Grant saying it but that's obviously because he's not as famous as the other two. And I'm sure Kobe thinks he'd beat Michael playing one on one as well.

Kobe will never live up to MJ's legend. People won't let him. He obviously doesn't have the accomplishments (yet) and might never have as many as MJ has. If he ever does match him in rings/accomplishments and it would be a virtual tie, people would still give the nod to MJ just because no one likes Kobe because he "raped" some slutty white girl, because he came after Jordan, and because people think he's trying to be MJ.

I didn't make the post to say MJ > Kobe or Kobe > MJ.

Tell me if I'm wrong about my assessment.

[IronMexican]

This Kobe/MJ shit is so annoying.

[MiamiHeat]

nice job using MJ's final 3 rings as an old man

comparing 30 yr old kobe to a 35 year old mj

[MiamiHeat]

I know Pippen and Jackson have said it before,

Think again

Pippen is on record, many times, saying that Michael is the GOAT. Bar none.
So is Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley, Shaquille O'Neal, etc.

even your Laker Kobe Bryant says MJ is better than him.

and the only thing Phil Jackson said was that Kobe had a better long range jumper, that he was more skilled in that area, while MJ had greater skill in other areas and that Michael had great hands. but keep in mind, this is WHILE BEING KOBE'S COACH. He can't down talk his own player and hurt his confidence. That's not what coaches do.

Let's wait until Phil is not his coach anymore.

[Muser]

This Kobe/MJ shit is so annoying.


Yep.

[mystargtr34]

Kobe is definately the closest thing to MJ we have seen - and i think the comparison can be made, but that doesnt mean Kobe is as good as MJ - because hes not. Neither in pure physical talents, nor accomplishments.

Hes Top 10 All Time IMO though, even without a Finals MVP.

[resistanze]

Tune in next time for DrHouse's upcoming thread in his flip-flopping series, Kobe Bryant is a good-for-nothing rapist.

[Tacker]

No, You're retarded. You just called Kobe the "Most talented and most fundamental player to ever play the game" that post proves your a fool.

The most fundamental player is Tim Duncan......

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao at insecure Lakers fans.

[sook]

Yes.

[stretch]

Kobe is definately the closest thing to MJ we have seen.

In terms of playing style, other than how Kobe tries to copy MJs jumper, fadeaway, and how he carries himself (gestures, speech, etc...), I'd say that Wade is a lot more like MJ. Wade relentlessly drives, slashes, and works to constantly get high percentage shots, keeping his outside shooting to a minimum. Kobe settles for jumpers a hell of a lot more than MJ. Wade and MJ both are better at penetration, slashing, and finishing than Kobe, IMO. He might not try to do things exactly the same way MJ does (like Kobe), but his playing style is definitely a lot more similar.

[baseline bum]

Why argue with 13 year olds that never even seen MJ play during his prime. I hated MJ while he played, but I respected his game as any fan against the bulls in that era did as well. Stern used MJ to prop the league internationally and it was a good calculated risk. Still, if KOBE would have quit to play soccer for 2 years and then come back the internet would explode.

You're the one who sounds like an ignorant 13 year-old, claiming Kobe is more talented than Jordan.

1. Better penetrator: Jordan
2. Quickness: Jordan
3. Jumping ability: Jordan
4. Strength: Jordan
5. Ability to finish in traffic: Jordan
6. Jumpshot: Kobe
7. Range: Kobe
8. Post skills: Jordan
9. Defense: Jordan
10. Passing: Jordan
11. Rebounding: Jordan

[JoeTait75]

MJ came to a team that had never won a thing and turned it into the most dominant franchise in professional sports for almost a decade. Kobe will never be able to make that claim. He had his chance. He could have gone to Charlotte and done for the Hornets what MJ did for the Bulls. But he didn't want to go there.

[LakerHater]

You're the one who sounds like an ignorant 13 year-old, claiming Kobe is more talented than Jordan.

1. Better penetrator: Jordan
2. Quickness: Jordan
3. Jumping ability: Jordan
4. Strength: Jordan
5. Ability to finish in traffic: Jordan
6. Jumpshot: Kobe
7. Range: Kobe
8. Post skills: Jordan
9. Defense: Jordan
10. Passing: Jordan
11. Rebounding: Jordan
12. Elbows: Kobe

g8k0OrOf7_Q

[DeadlyDynasty]

12. Elbows: Kobe

g8k0OrOf7_Q
I love the elbow to Manu's grill...probably the only time he took a legit fall:lol
That's how you gotta handle floppers though

[Killakobe81]

I agree evn with 3 moe titles he will never reach Mj's staus in most people's eyes ....and I don't care.
Kobe is teh 2nd best 2 guard and If he continues at a high rate I would even bump Larry for kobe on my alltime staring 5 (since '1980) but for now it's still ...

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
Kareem

If Kobe continues to excel than i put him at 2 and bump Jordan to 3 because Mj was really a SF even though Kobe was taller ...plus we all know Duncan is really a center ...

[Killakobe81]

12. Elbows: Kobe

g8k0OrOf7_Q

Agree that MJ is better overrall but a lo of this is subjective.
MJ looks quicker (and well maybe) but remember league was MUCH slower then especially BIGS. Unless we timed then no way to tell but MJ is stronger by looking at film and is a better no, stronger finisher at the rim everything else is subjective

Kobe has better foot work and handle as well ...better FT shooter (I think)

Most everything else favors MJ ALSO you cant say he is a better passer that is subjective more willing ...agreed.

[Killakobe81]

MJ came to a team that had never won a thing and turned it into the most dominant franchise in professional sports for almost a decade. Kobe will never be able to make that claim. He had his chance. He could have gone to Charlotte and done for the Hornets what MJ did for the Bulls. But he didn't want to go there.

Who cares he can build on 3 title sthat is all that matters ...

[Bob Lanier]

league was MUCH slower then especially BIGS.
:lol

Kobe has better foot work
:lol

and handle
:lol

you cant say he is a better passer
:lol

[kingmalaki]

I know Pippen and Jackson have said it before, I don't remember Horace Grant saying it but that's obviously because he's not as famous as the other two. And I'm sure Kobe thinks he'd beat Michael playing one on one as well.

Kobe will never live up to MJ's legend. People won't let him. He obviously doesn't have the accomplishments (yet) and might never have as many as MJ has. If he ever does match him in rings/accomplishments and it would be a virtual tie, people would still give the nod to MJ just because no one likes Kobe because he "raped" some slutty white girl, because he came after Jordan, and because people think he's trying to be MJ.

I didn't make the post to say MJ > Kobe or Kobe > MJ.

Tell me if I'm wrong about my assessment.

Pippen is one of my favorite players all-time, and I never recall him saying Kobe was better than MJ. Actually, if Pippen ever made that kind of statement it would have been major news for the time and very easy to find support of it. There is no need to create stuff to prop your boy. :lol

[024]

lol at kobe worshipers whining about high expectations for kobe when it was them that made the comparisons to jordan in the first place. kobe fans are too much.