Vince Carter

[jermaine]

If we're not going to trade Manu, can we afford Vince Carter? What about Zaza from the Hawks also? Get ride of the scrubs we have an be a attacking team instead of a jump shooting team. I dont know anything about the Spurs money problems so forgive me if that idea sounds to far feched to happen.:downspin:

[Mel_13]

If we're not going to trade Manu, can we afford Vince Carter? What about Zaza from the Hawks also? Get ride of the scrubs we have an be a attacking team instead of a jump shooting team. I dont know anything about the Spurs money problems so forgive me if that idea sounds to far feched to happen.:downspin:

To make the numbers work to acquire VC, you pretty much have to include Manu in the deal.

Zaza for all or most of MLE is a realistic target. Whether he would be the best target is another question. But he would fill a need and will probably sign a deal that starts in the neighborhood of the MLE.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm all for the Spurs bringing in Pachulia, I think he would be a great fit here.

[jermaine]

Vince is a FA right? So if we quit trying to find scrubs from the D-league that wont ever see the court then we should have funds to get Carter! Right?

[Mel_13]

Vince is a FA right? So if we quit trying to find scrubs from the D-league that wont ever see the court then we should have funds to get Carter! Right?

VC is guaranteed almost 34M over the next two years, with a third year at 19M that is partially guaranteed for at least 4M.

If he was a FA, there would be no way for the Spurs to sign him.

Since NJ may want to unload his contract, he is a possible trade target.

[Big P]

Vince is a FA right? So if we quit trying to find scrubs from the D-league that wont ever see the court then we should have funds to get Carter! Right?

He is not a FA, he has 3 years & about $51 mil due to him in thos 3 years. So no we cant afford him.

Edit ..like Mel said, the 3rd year is a team option, but even with 2 years & $35 mil. hes to expensive.

[manufan10]

To make the numbers work to acquire VC, you pretty much have to include Manu in the deal.


Do you think that is why the trade didn't go down last year? How would the trade have worked for last season, and not this coming season?

[jermaine]

So Luther Head, Mcdyess, Bardon Bass, mikki moore, Zaza, Von Wafer, Nesterovic, Hakim worrick, and Theo Ratliff is our only choices in the NBA. (I dont know any onerseas people!) :bang

[Mel_13]

Do you think that is why the trade didn't go down last year? How would the trade have worked for last season, and not this coming season?

If you remember, all the stories that came out at the trade deadline were about some kind of 4 for 1 trade that couldn't be finalized. Last week, when Pop talked about Manu he referred to how the Spurs almost traded a "great player for a great player". Although Manu's name never was associated with the possible deal for VC, I think that a Manu for VC deal is what Pop was talking about. Just my best guess, some think he was referring to a possible deal with the Wizards.

[jermaine]

If you remember, all the stories that came out at the trade deadline were about some kind of 4 for 1 trade that couldn't be finalized. Last week, when Pop talked about Manu he referred to how the Spurs almost traded a "great player for a great player". Although Manu's name never was associated with the possible deal for VC, I think that a Manu for VC deal is what Pop was talking about. Just my best guess, some think he was referring to a possible deal with the Wizards.

I would trade manu for carter an throw in oberto to go with his friend

[HarlemHeat37]

There was a realistic shot last year, but I don't see it coming up..Carter won't be a Spur, but there's a realistic chance that another team will take him..I see him remaining with the Nets though..

He looks great though, he's already started working hard in the off-season..he was at a charity game in DC last week, he was throwing down windmills with his head at the rim, looked like he was still 25..

I wouldn't object to that trade, although most here would..

[manufan10]

If you remember, all the stories that came out at the trade deadline were about some kind of 4 for 1 trade that couldn't be finalized. Last week, when Pop talked about Manu he referred to how the Spurs almost traded a "great player for a great player". Although Manu's name never was associated with the possible deal for VC, I think that a Manu for VC deal is what Pop was talking about. Just my best guess, some think he was referring to a possible deal with the Wizards.

:tu

Thanks.

If people think that Manu is already injury prone, why would we want Carter for Manu? Carter has been known not to give a damn, and show up to play every once in awhile. If it's a Carter for Spurs scrubs, then I'd be ok with that, but not for Manu. Don't let my screen name fool you, I've said that trading Manu is a possibility, but it has to be something that would make the Spurs better, and a trade that the other team would be willing to do. A Carter for Manu trade wouldn't make the Spurs better.

[jermaine]

[QUOTE=HarlemHeat37;3465321]There was a realistic shot last year, but I don't see it coming up..Carter won't be a Spur, but there's a realistic chance that another team will take him..I see him remaining with the Nets though..

He looks great though, he's already started working hard in the off-season..he was at a charity game in DC last week, he was throwing down windmills with his head at the rim, looked like he was still 25..

Sign his ass up. Carter on the Spurs makes us ESPN favorite team. they dont like to show Spurs highlights but they will then for sure. I know that dont win gms but im sure we will.

[HarlemHeat37]

:tu

Thanks.

If people think that Manu is already injury prone, why would we want Carter for Manu? Carter has been known not to give a damn, and show up to play every once in awhile. If it's a Carter for Spurs scrubs, then I'd be ok with that, but not for Manu. Don't let my screen name fool you, I've said that trading Manu is a possibility, but it has to be something that would make the Spurs better, and a trade that the other team would be willing to do. A Carter for Manu trade wouldn't make the Spurs better.

ugh, the misconceptions..

[Sdayi135]

I wouldn't object to getting VC, but I'd object giving up Manu Ginobili for VC.

[objective]

Numbers wise VC is gettable without Manu.

I used to think that because of his contract there's no way the Spurs would do a deal like that.

But now I think the Spurs would make money off of VC.

First, ticket sales for the regular season are down and will get worse. By adding a big name like Vince Carter, I think the Spurs would go back to year round sell-outs for at least the first season before novelty wore off. Ancillary sales of merchandise would also raise significantly.

Furthermore, adding Vince in addition to the big three would very likely mean a longer playoff run. How many millions in shortfall did the Spurs experience this year losing in 5 1st round games as opposed to losing in the WCF or appearing in the Finals? And they couldn't even sell out playoff games easily that they did have.

If the Spurs still have any number crunching nerds and did the math I think they'd find having VC around better than not having him.

[ffadicted]

Numbers wise VC is gettable without Manu.

I used to think that because of his contract there's no way the Spurs would do a deal like that.

But now I think the Spurs would make money off of VC.

First, ticket sales for the regular season are down and will get worse. By adding a big name like Vince Carter, I think the Spurs would go back to year round sell-outs for at least the first season before novelty wore off. Ancillary sales of merchandise would also raise significantly.

Furthermore, adding Vince in addition to the big three would very likely mean a longer playoff run. How many millions in shortfall did the Spurs experience this year losing in 5 1st round games as opposed to losing in the WCF or appearing in the Finals? And they couldn't even sell out playoff games easily that they did have.

If the Spurs still have any number crunching nerds and did the math I think they'd find having VC around better than not having him.

Please do go learn about financial dealings in the NBA

Then you can come back and post

[objective]

Please do go learn about financial dealings in the NBA

Then you can come back and post

My rep is solid and assertions viable.

This case is closed.

[Mel_13]

Numbers wise VC is gettable without Manu.


Only if you assume one of two scenarios:

1. The Spurs exceed the luxury tax by several million.

Or

2. You have a roster that is the Big 4 plus 9-11 guys on vet min or rookie minimum contracts.

The new Big 4 would cost 61.6M. The lux tax line will be somewhere from 68-71M. The Spurs would have to choose between adding 10M or so to payroll costs or go with a very low paid supporting cost.

I would be surprised if the Spurs trade for any player to add to the Big 3 that makes much more than 8-9M. More than that and it gets real hard to complete the roster without going over the tax.

Your take on the impact VC could have on the bottom line was very interesting. Cleveland has obviously calculated that the cost of losing LeBron is so high that they are willing to take on virtually any additional payroll that enhances their chances of keeping him. And I always suspected that the VC deal fell apart because the Nets wanted Manu and the Spurs were concerned about the negative impact that trade would have had on the season ticket renewals that had just gone out.

[rayray2k8]

Only if you assume one of two scenarios:

1. The Spurs exceed the luxury tax by several million.

Or

2. You have a roster that is the Big 4 plus 9-11 guys on vet min or rookie minimum contracts.

The new Big 4 would cost 61.6M. The lux tax line will be somewhere from 68-71M. The Spurs would have to choose between adding 10M or so to payroll costs or go with a very low paid supporting cost.

I would be surprised if the Spurs trade for any player to add to the Big 3 that makes much more than 8-9M. More than that and it gets real hard to complete the roster without going over the tax.

Your take on the impact VC could have on the bottom line was very interesting. Cleveland has obviously calculated that the cost of losing LeBron is so high that they are willing to take on virtually any additional payroll that enhances their chances of keeping him. And I always suspected that the VC deal fell apart because the Nets wanted Manu and the Spurs were concerned about the negative impact that trade would have had on the season ticket renewals that had just gone out.


But.. But.. We can still get Vince Carter, right??//aidjd :madrun

:rolleyes

[objective]

Only if you assume one of two scenarios:

1. The Spurs exceed the luxury tax by several million.

Or

2. You have a roster that is the Big 4 plus 9-11 guys on vet min or rookie minimum contracts.

The new Big 4 would cost 61.6M. The lux tax line will be somewhere from 68-71M. The Spurs would have to choose between adding 10M or so to payroll costs or go with a very low paid supporting cost.

I would be surprised if the Spurs trade for any player to add to the Big 3 that makes much more than 8-9M. More than that and it gets real hard to complete the roster without going over the tax.

Your take on the impact VC could have on the bottom line was very interesting. Cleveland has obviously calculated that the cost of losing LeBron is so high that they are willing to take on virtually any additional payroll that enhances their chances of keeping him. And I always suspected that the VC deal fell apart because the Nets wanted Manu and the Spurs were concerned about the negative impact that trade would have had on the season ticket renewals that had just gone out.

Yes it would involve assumptions, the biggest being the Nets trading VC for expirings + Hill/bonuses like Splitter.

But strictly by the numbers, trades that work under the salary cap rules, VC is gettable and the trades to do it were documented back during the season.

Re: the tax and minimum players . . . I want the Spurs to have rookies and low cost players next year. I don't want anything to do with the cast of roleplayers they have now who have proven the Spurs can't win with them. Give me Gist and Sanikidze and Hairston and 3 second rounders this year like De Colo or Casspi through a trade. Even without Vince Carter. Give me youth and hunger over tired over the hill plodders any day. Plus second rounders on minimum deals are discounted towards the luxury tax, even better to sign them.

Re: my VC financial impact theory and the luxury tax. It's a gamble. But the Spurs have paid the tax before. And adding Vince Carter would mean they wouldn't have to paper the AT&T every night and lie about attendance every night. This city has experienced fan enthusiasm deflation and everybody knows it. Things will only be worse next year after this past season's incredibly disappointing finish.

I've no doubt that if the Spurs got Vince Carter without giving up Manu there'd be news stories within 48 hours about how many additional season ticket sales had been generated.

[Mel_13]

I want the Spurs to have rookies and low cost players next year. I don't want anything to do with the cast of roleplayers they have now who have proven the Spurs can't win with them. Give me Gist and Sanikidze and Hairston and 3 second rounders this year like De Colo or Casspi through a trade. Even without Vince Carter. Give me youth and hunger over tired over the hill plodders any day. Plus second rounders on minimum deals are discounted towards the luxury tax, even better to sign them.


On this we have perfect agreement. When Boston made the Garnett and Allen trades, they had no choice but to give PT to players who would normally not get a chance on a contending team. Out of that process, they found two rotation players in Davis and Powe. I would also like to see Gist, Sanikidze, Hairston, Williams, and the 2nd rounders fight it out for 4 spots on the roster and then give the winners PT and see who seizes the opportunity to stay in the rotation. The Spurs are not likely to get any high draft picks anytime soon, they need to grow some young rotation players from the sources available to them.

[diego]

i'm sorry, but getting VC because you dont want to be a jumpshooting team shows you havent seen vince play in a long time.

dont get me wrong, he'd improve the spurs because he is a very good shooter, clutch too, and can still create shots but penetration and finishing inside are no longer big parts of his game.

[HarlemHeat37]

yes, they are actually..another misconception about Vince Carter..

Vince shoots less jumpers than Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Kobe Bryant, Danny Granger, Tracy McGrady, Richard Hamilton, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Ben Gordon, Kevin Martin, and Joe Johnson on the notable SG/SF list..

he shoots around the same % of jumper attempts as Paul Pierce, John Salmons, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, Richard Jefferson, Michael Redd, Kevin Durant, and Hedo Turkoglu..

he would really be a great fit, but like Mel explained, it won't happen for us..

[TDMVPDPOY]

Yes it would involve assumptions, the biggest being the Nets trading VC for expirings + Hill/bonuses like Splitter.



add in YI if the spurs are smart about gettin extra $$$ from the chinese market.

[diego]

yes, they are actually..another misconception about Vince Carter..

Vince shoots less jumpers than Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Kobe Bryant, Danny Granger, Tracy McGrady, Richard Hamilton, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Ben Gordon, Kevin Martin, and Joe Johnson on the notable SG/SF list..

he shoots around the same % of jumper attempts as Paul Pierce, John Salmons, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, Richard Jefferson, Michael Redd, Kevin Durant, and Hedo Turkoglu..

he would really be a great fit, but like Mel explained, it won't happen for us..

since when are any of those guys slashers? the only ones who could be called slashers no longer slash (tmac, kobe). Carter falls in the same category, he no longer takes it to the hole like he used to (and Im afraid manu is also falling into this category). He takes 25% of his shots inside, 29% from 3. I didnt say he doesnt drive or make layups or dunks anymore. I said its not a big part of his game, and I dont see how the players you listed makes my statement false.

[poop]

Re: the tax and minimum players . . . I want the Spurs to have rookies and low cost players next year. I don't want anything to do with the cast of roleplayers they have now who have proven the Spurs can't win with them. Give me Gist and Sanikidze and Hairston and 3 second rounders this year like De Colo or Casspi through a trade. Even without Vince Carter. Give me youth and hunger over tired over the hill plodders any day. Plus second rounders on minimum deals are discounted towards the luxury tax, even better to sign them.



THIS x10000000.

this is what ive been saying for over a year now..

yet we all know, unfortunately that next year will start with the usual cast of dinosaurs whilst all the young guys we are talking about are either in austin, overseas or doing well with another team.