Trade revisited Thread

[chubster]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Vince Carter trade:

New Jersey sent Alonzo Mourning (who refused to report), Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and 2 1st round picks to Toronto.

Toronto sent Vince Carter to New Jersey.

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

[chubster]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Rasheed Wallace trade.

Detroit gave up: Lindsay Hunter, Bobby Sura, Zeljko Rebraca, Chris Mills to Boston and Atlanta

Detroit Acquired Rasheed Wallace and Mike James

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

[chubster]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Ray Allen trade:

Boston sent: Wally Sczerbiak, Delonte West and Jeff Green to Seattle
Boston acquired Ray Allen

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

[chubster]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Marcus Camby trade:

Clippers sent: 2nd round pick (if lower than Denver) to Denver
Clippers acquired: Marcus Camby and Denver's 2nd round pick (if higher)

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

[chubster]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Caron Butler trade:

LA sent Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins to Washington
LA acquired Kwame Brown

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

[KSeal]

lol, u fkd up..

[KSeal]

lol, you fkd up again...

[chubster]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Elton Brand trade:

Clippers sent Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner to Chicago
Clippers acquired Elton Brand

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

[Kori Ellis]

You keep putting Vince Carter in your posts when you aren't talking about Vince. So here's one Revisited thread for you.

Stop starting others.

Thanks.

[Ghazi]

So basically, the lakers traded Caron Butler for Pau Gasol.

doesn't sound nearly as lopsided now does it :)

[chubster]

So basically, the lakers traded Caron Butler for Pau Gasol.

doesn't sound nearly as lopsided now does it :)

The Lakers sent to Memphis:
A rookie Center who just dropped 12 and 7
Javaris Crittenton who is better than Jordan Farmar
Capspace worth nearly 13 million which Memphis almost turned to Josh Smith at the beginning of this season (Atlanta had regretted their decision of matching it now).

The Lakers acquired: Pau Gasol, who apparently have never won a single playoff game as the 1st option. I mean, god dang it, Vince Carter and Rasheed Wallace won more playoff game than this dude and they got traded for even worse garbage.

The trade was never that lopsided in the first place. Memphis fans are pretty happy about it. They're looking to get good FA this offseason with the ginormous cap space the Lakers had given them.

The Lakers fans are happy about it
Memphis fans are happy about it

Other fans scream "murder!"

[chubster]

No reply? Can someone explain to me the logic behind the bitterness on this board about the Gasol trade?

Tell you what, if any of you can find another team who were able to offer larger expiring contracts than Kwame Brown + Aaron Mckie while willing to give up 2 1st round pick at the same time, let me know. I will gladly join the conspiracy theorists when that happens.

[Bob Lanier]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/f/f8/MyBFFJill.jpg/339px-MyBFFJill.jpg

[chubster]

http://i43.tinypic.com/xrrbt.gif

[Trainwreck2100]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Elton Brand trade:

Clippers sent Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner to Chicago
Clippers acquired Elton Brand

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.


The Elton Brand deal was a sign and trade. I know you were probably 5 when it happened but that's how sign and trades work you sign a guy then you trade him.

[YellowFever]

gtfo chubster.

You make too much sense for this board.

[Trainwreck2100]

gtfo chubster.

You make too much sense for this board.

cept for the fact he used a sign and trade, which doesn't make much sense

[YellowFever]

cept for the fact he used a sign and trade, which doesn't make much sense

And the others?

[sedale threatt]

Excellent thread. Let's not forget the Baron Davis trade and of course the Scola trade. Most of these trades were much more outrageous than the Gasol trade as far as talent for talent.

[chubster]

The Elton Brand deal was a sign and trade. I know you were probably 5 when it happened but that's how sign and trades work you sign a guy then you trade him.
And Kwame Brown was a cap relief but that doesn't stop the bitter fans on this board to evaluate the Gasol trade on talent alone, doesn't it?

Beside, a sign and trade is essentially a trade which needs approval from the main piece to get through (in this case Brand) but that doesn't mean that that player holds all the leverage in the trade. Brand was a a restricted FA at that point, if the Bulls didn't like what the Clips had to offer, they could just say "screw you Elton, you're playing for us for another year whether you like it or not." so in a sense, Bulls still got raped on that one because there's no way Elton Brand who was a 20-10-2 threat was worth Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner.

How come people on this board aren't bitter about that?

Or am I making too much sense?

[timvp]

Celebrate number 15, Laker Fan.

Stop worrying about the collusion.

It's in the past. Let the rest of the team figure out how to combat the gift.

[NewcastleKEG]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Vince Carter trade:

New Jersey sent Alonzo Mourning (who refused to report), Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and 2 1st round picks to Toronto.

Toronto sent Vince Carter to New Jersey.

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.
Who were the 2 1st round picks and which pick in that draft?

[NewcastleKEG]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Rasheed Wallace trade.

Detroit gave up: Lindsay Hunter, Bobby Sura, Zeljko Rebraca, Chris Mills to Boston and Atlanta

Detroit Acquired Rasheed Wallace and Mike James

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.
Hawks wanted to handle over Sheed that bad. Obviously this trade won the Pistons a title

[NewcastleKEG]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Ray Allen trade:

Boston sent: Wally Sczerbiak, Delonte West and Jeff Green to Seattle
Boston acquired Ray Allen

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.
Obviously disaster for Seattle considering two of the better players they picked up are currently on the Cavs

[chubster]

Celebrate number 15, Laker Fan.

Stop worrying about the collusion.

It's in the past. Let the rest of the team figure out how to combat the gift.
No matter how old the Spurs are, they can still handle Nets gifted Vince Carter and Pistons gifted Rasheed Wallace.

Or are you talking about another "gift"?

[chubster]

Who were the 2 1st round picks and which pick in that draft?
"The two first round selections sent to Toronto were originally acquired from Denver as part of a trade made this past summer. The draft picks include Philadelphia’s first round pick in 2005, protected 1-8 or 2006, protected 1-5 or 2007, unprotected and Denver’s first round pick in 2006, protected 1-5, 2007, protected 1-2, 2008, unprotected." (InsideHoops.com)

The Philly pick got them Joey Graham, The Denver pick was sold for cash consideration.

[Purple & Gold]

Actually the Lakers gave up 4 first rounders since Gasol was Spanish League MVP and obvious first round talent. 4 firsts and a huge expiring and people cry like it was the most lopsided trade ever :wakeup

[timvp]

No matter how old the Spurs are, they can still handle Nets gifted Vince Carter and Pistons gifted Rasheed Wallace.

Or are you talking about another "gift"?

Obviously, you don't understand that the Gasol trade is not comparable to sign-and-trade deals, trading players on the last year of their deal to get something rather than nothing and straight salary dumps of players who aren't worth their contract. The Gasol trade doesn't fit into any three of those categories.

Game over.

Wipe away the tears.

Go celebrate number 15.

[Purple & Gold]

Go celebrate number 15.

:toast

[chubster]

Obviously, you don't understand that the Gasol trade is not comparable to sign-and-trade deals, trading players on the last year of their deal to get something rather than nothing and straight salary dumps of players who aren't worth their contract. The Gasol trade doesn't fit into any three of those categories.

Game over.

Wipe away the tears.

Go celebrate number 15.
Kwame Brown - last year of his deal. Lakers wanted to get talent rather than cap space (category #2)

Aaron Mckie - sign and trade for salary filler and became instant capspace for Memphis (category #1)

Brook Lopez, Kevin Love and Marc Gasol were the absolute top 3 of the big men class of 2008 draft and Memphis acquired 1 of them.

Pau Gasol, at the time he was traded had, 60 millions/ 4 years left on his contract and Memphis management didn't feel like paying that kind of money for a 1st option who could't win a single playoff game, so they traded him to a team who was willing to absorb his salary (category#3)

You were saying?

[timvp]

Kwame Brown - last year of his deal. Lakers wanted to get talent rather than cap space (category #2)Are you a troll or have we really reached a lower level of Laker Fan?

Did you just give a reason why the Lakers did the trade ... as if it isn't obvious?


Brook Lopez, Kevin Love and Marc Gasol were the absolute top 3 of the big men class of 2008 draft and Memphis acquired 1 of them. :rolleyes It's amazing how much Laker Fan loves the players traded for Gasol. I remember ROFLing when Laker Fan said that they were sad to see JCritt go because he was the next Kobe.

Let it go.

Your Lakers won.

Jerry West furthered his Laker legacy.

Even other fans are starting to get over the Gasol collusion.

The whole "Gasol sucks and the Lakers gave them great value!" take has gotten old.

Celebrate.

[chubster]

Are you a troll or have we really reached a lower level of Laker Fan?

Did you just give a reason why the Lakers did the trade ... as if it isn't obvious?

And you conveniently ignore why MEMPHIS did the trade. The posters here are so bitter about it, they couldn't even argue without having their hatred clouding their logic.

It's amazing how much Laker Fan loves the players traded for Gasol. I remember ROFLing when Laker Fan said that they were sad to see JCritt go because he was the next Kobe.
Hey, I have a rookie 7 footer who can replace Matt Bonner or Oberto in the Spurs starting lineup. He just dropped 12 and 7 for the entire season, shoot 50% and had 1.7 blocks.

Do you want him?

[timvp]

And you conveniently ignore why MEMPHIS did the trade. The posters here are so bitter about it, they couldn't even argue without having their hatred clouding their logic. What hatred? I congratulated the Lakers on their championship a month ago. I've moved on.

Apparently you haven't.


Hey, I have a rookie 7 footer who can replace Matt Bonner or Oberto in the Spurs starting lineup. He just dropped 12 and 7 for the entire season, shoot 50% and had 1.7 blocks.

Do you want him?Yes ... but you can't have Tim Duncan.

As shocking as that may be to a Laker Fan.

[chubster]

What hatred? I congratulated the Lakers on their championship a month ago. I've moved on.


Jerry West furthered his Laker legacy.

Even other fans are starting to get over the Gasol collusion.

I call BS.

Yes ... but you can't have Tim Duncan.

As shocking as that may be to a Laker Fan.
And the Lakers had never asked for in return the greatest power forward to ever play the game, as shocking as it was for other fans.

[Trainwreck2100]

And Kwame Brown was a cap relief but that doesn't stop the bitter fans on this board to evaluate the Gasol trade on talent alone, doesn't it?

Beside, a sign and trade is essentially a trade which needs approval from the main piece to get through (in this case Brand) but that doesn't mean that that player holds all the leverage in the trade. Brand was a a restricted FA at that point, if the Bulls didn't like what the Clips had to offer, they could just say "screw you Elton, you're playing for us for another year whether you like it or not." so in a sense, Bulls still got raped on that one because there's no way Elton Brand who was a 20-10-2 threat was worth Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner.

How come people on this board aren't bitter about that?

Or am I making too much sense?

Wow where to begin, first off, that's actually not how RFA works, at all. Elton agreed to the S&T its because he gets more money signing with the team that drafted him, then getting traded. The reason the Bulls agreed was because they got something instead of Elton leaving in FA and getting nothing. Something>Nothing

At least you changed your favorite team from the Raptors to the Lakers cause nobody woud be stupid enough to believe you were a raptor fan

[chubster]

Wow where to begin, first off, that's actually not how RFA works, at all. Elton agreed to the S&T its because he gets more money signing with the team that drafted him, then getting traded. The reason the Bulls agreed was because they got something instead of Elton leaving in FA and getting nothing. Something>Nothing

Brand leaving for free agency was not a pre-ordained thing had he not been traded. Even if they had let him become an unrestricted FA, the Bulls still could offer him the most money because they were the one who drafted him, thus acquiring his bird right. So the Bulls must have liked what the Clips had to offer at that time to agree for a S & T. The thing with that trade was, Chandler was a total bust until after he played with Chris Paul and Skinner was just a salary filler (not sure if he was expiring or not) while Brand posted 20-10 with 2 blocks a game.

Now tell me if the Clips didn't rape the Bulls on that one.

At least you changed your favorite team from the Raptors to the Lakers cause nobody woud be stupid enough to believe you were a raptor fanI'm a fan of both team. I'm just fed up with the constant conspiracy theory suggested by other fans everytime something good happened to the Lakers. I didn't change the team, a mod must have done it. Why? I can only guess.

[MiamiHeat]

Memphis didn't even take -1- phone call other than the Lakers. They didn't tell anyone else.

They didn't even shop around, ask for offers, see what they could get. Nothing.

It was done with the Lakers in secret. Collusion

[chubster]

Memphis didn't even take -1- phone call other than the Lakers. They didn't tell anyone else.

They didn't even shop around, ask for offers, see what they could get. Nothing.

It was done with the Lakers in secret. Collusion
Like I said before. If you can find any other team that was willing to offer more expiring contract than Kwame Brown + Aaron Mckie combined while giving up 2 1st round picks, I'm all for the conspiracy theory.
Memphis did that trade for 1 thing and 1 thing only; lighten their financial burden so the amount of the expiring contract they could get was reason #1 for them. The draft picks and the fact the Lakers gave them their starting Center was just icing on the cake.

Let me save you the trouble; there's only 1 player with better expiring contract than Kwame's and he was Theo Ratliff. The problem at that time, Ratliff was playing for the Timberwolves and there's no way in hell that they're giving up their 1st round draft picks (which netted them Kevin Love).

I'll gladly eat crow if you can find other team that could've helped Memphis' financial situation more than the Lakers did.

[Muser]

This thread hurts my head.

[Thomas82]

Memphis didn't even take -1- phone call other than the Lakers. They didn't tell anyone else.

They didn't even shop around, ask for offers, see what they could get. Nothing.

It was done with the Lakers in secret. Collusion

That's how I remember it happening.

[chubster]

That's how I remember it happening.
No, that's how you remember Peter Vecsey writing about it and he's the only one who did, mind you.

As for Vecsey's credibility, well, I don't even need to say anything about that.

[Chieflion]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

The Deal: On June 9, 1980, the Celtics acquired two-thirds of their Big Three in one deal. In a blockbuster trade with Golden State, Boston received center Robert Parish and the No. 3 pick in the 1980 draft, which they used to select forward Kevin McHale. In return, the Warriors received the No. 1 pick in the draft, which they used to take center Joe Barry Carroll, and the No. 13 choice, which they used on guard Rickey Brown. The impact: Parish and McHale teamed with Larry Bird to form one of the best frontlines in NBA history. Both were named to the list of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players, and Boston won three championships and reached five NBA Finals during their careers in Beantown. Carroll played 6½ seasons with the Warriors and averaged more than 20 points in four of those seasons, including a career-high 24.1 in 1982-83. However, Golden State reached the playoffs only once with Carroll in the middle. Brown played just five NBA seasons and never averaged more than six points per game.

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

[Jacko]

Something that is continually lost on the pea minded brains of fans like timvp is that Memphis wasn't looking for equal talent back. They were looking to dump salary, plain and simple. They tried to trade Gasol for 2 straight seasons but nobody was offering anything close to equal talent, most notably Chicago who refused to part with any of their core.

The bottom line is nobody here has named a team with a better package to clear caproom than what LA offered. All this talk about no teams being aware Gasol was on the block is complete horse shit. Very few teams were willing to take on his hefty contract.

LA took advantage and came up big, and you're hating.

[Trainwreck2100]

Brand leaving for free agency was not a pre-ordained thing had he not been traded. Even if they had let him become an unrestricted FA, the Bulls still could offer him the most money because they were the one who drafted him, thus acquiring his bird right. So the Bulls must have liked what the Clips had to offer at that time to agree for a S & T. The thing with that trade was, Chandler was a total bust until after he played with Chris Paul and Skinner was just a salary filler (not sure if he was expiring or not) while Brand posted 20-10 with 2 blocks a game.

Now tell me if the Clips didn't rape the Bulls on that one.



Once again you still are talking out of your ass, how restricted free agency works is that the restricted FA signs whats called an offer sheet, and the team he belongs to has an option to match it. CHI didn't want to pay him the max that the clips did. Restricted doesn't mean his team can restrict him from going and say "no don't go". They can keep him but they'd have to pay him the same as the offer sheet he signed. They can't "let him become an unrestricted free agent" He could only have become an unrestricted free agent if he stayed on a year without looking for another team. He is the only one who could decide if he would be a UFA not his team. The reason he signed with the Bulls was because of his bird rights, but when they signed that agreement they had no intention of keeping him cause they couldn't afford it. The Bulls weren't going to sign him to the max that the Clippers were so instead of the Bulls getting jack shit with him walking they agreed to a sign and trade because something>nothing. And brand agreed to the S&T because he gets more money.


I'm a fan of both team. I'm just fed up with the constant conspiracy theory suggested by other fans everytime something good happened to the Lakers. I didn't change the team, a mod must have done it. Why? I can only guess.

Because no real Raptor fan bitches about the VC trade

[Trainwreck2100]

Something that is continually lost on the pea minded brains of fans like timvp is that Memphis wasn't looking for equal talent back. They were looking to dump salary, plain and simple. They tried to trade Gasol for 2 straight seasons but nobody was offering anything close to equal talent, most notably Chicago who refused to part with any of their core.

The bottom line is nobody here has named a team with a better package to clear caproom than what LA offered. All this talk about no teams being aware Gasol was on the block is complete horse shit. Very few teams were willing to take on his hefty contract.

LA took advantage and came up big, and you're hating.

If it was a straight salary dump, then why didn't Memphis hinge the trade on Brian Cardinal's expiring deal like they did with Mark Miller. The only reason he wasn't traded at the deadline to the Mavs was because they couldn't match the salaries because memphis wouldn't take Cardinal's contract off the table. So they hinge a MM trade on brian cardinal, but they let Gasol, their best asset go by his lonesome?

[monosylab1k]

5PDuqk_DSMw

[chubster]

Once again you still are talking out of your ass, how restricted free agency works is that the restricted FA signs whats called an offer sheet, and the team he belongs to has an option to match it. CHI didn't want to pay him the max that the clips did. Restricted doesn't mean his team can restrict him from going and say "no don't go". They can keep him but they'd have to pay him the same as the offer sheet he signed. They can't "let him become an unrestricted free agent" He could only have become an unrestricted free agent if he stayed on a year without looking for another team. He is the only one who could decide if he would be a UFA not his team. The reason he signed with the Bulls was because of his bird rights, but when they signed that agreement they had no intention of keeping him cause they couldn't afford it. The Bulls weren't going to sign him to the max that the Clippers were so instead of the Bulls getting jack shit with him walking they agreed to a sign and trade because something>nothing. And brand agreed to the S&T because he gets more money.

Brand wasn't being offered anything from the Clips. He was RFA but he didn't want to sign anything less than the max so the Bulls did the S&T with the Clips who had salary cap to absorb Brand's contract without giving back equal salaries in return. But here's the catch; The Bulls could let him become an unrestricted FA and still not worry about losing him for nothing. Why? Because like I said before, he wanted nothing less than the max and the Bulls could offer him more max than any other team because of his bird rights. The only thing Brand had as leverage was if he became disgruntled for an entire season due to not signing an extension. Other than that, the Bulls held all the aces.

Then again, NBA players always sign with the teams that can offer them the most money. I can't think of a single player (other than ring chasers) who signed with another team just to spite the team that had their bird rights even when he's being offered the most money by that particular team. Can you?

Again, The Bulls held all the leverages. All teams do, actually. Why do you think The Cavs had no problem letting Anderson Varejao become an UFA? Or the Bulls actually offered Ben Gordon less money last summer when he already rejected their initial offer 2 years ago? Those teams know that money drive the players and as long as they have their bird rights, those players ain't going nowhere unless a totally wonderful trade prospect arises.

That's what happened with Elton Brand. They had no problem whatsoever letting Brand become UFA but then the Clips came knocking with Chandler and Skinner to offer. They took it, even when they held all the leverages with Brand. Why do you think they did that? They must have liked what they saw at that time.

If you think RFAs are ever in a position to hold a franchise hostage, you must be one gullible mf-er.

Because no real Raptor fan bitches about the VC trade Oh yeah, we were totally happy to have Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and Joey Graham to show for it. By the way, Rob Babcock was immediate fired after that deal, what does that tell you?

Dumbfuck.

If it was a straight salary dump, then why didn't Memphis hinge the trade on Brian Cardinal's expiring deal like they did with Mark Miller. The only reason he wasn't traded at the deadline to the Mavs was because they couldn't match the salaries because memphis wouldn't take Cardinal's contract off the table. So they hinge a MM trade on brian cardinal, but they let Gasol, their best asset go by his lonesome?What are you saying? You wanted Memphis to pair Gasol and Cardinal together and see if there's any taker? Gasol, by himself is making 16M/year plus Cardinal's contract of 6M/year. Yeah, a 22M/year salary dump. That totally makes sense. The Lakers are one of the wealthiest team in the league but they're not that wealthy. I doubt even the Knicks or Mavs with such big pockets could absorb that.
The Gasol trade was a salary dump but they expected to acquire some talent in return because he was their franchise player after all. Hence, their starting C (Marc Gasol) and starting PF (Darell Arthur) were products of that trade.

At the end of the day, Chris Wallace was able to find taker for Cardinal's contract while at the same time traded Kevin Love for OJ Mayo who was a much superior player so all is good right now for Memphis.

And people still insist on calling him an idiot for helping the Lakers out while ignoring the fact that the Memphis also got what they wanted. A young and talented squad, draft picks and cap space flexibility. Tell me right now if they're not in a better position than 50% of other teams in the league especially with this economic situation.

With Mayo, Gay, Conley, Gasol and Thabeet/Rubio as their core, they could make some serious noise in 2-3 years...and that without having used the cap space they acquired from the Lakers. What FA wouldn't be interested in playing for 11M/year?

[KSeal]

The way I view the Gasol trade is the Lakers finally getting equal value for Shaq. They traded arguable the most dominant big in the game at the time for not even one all star, that's lame. You trade Shaq you should get one all star back, Lamar is a nice player, but no all star. So they turned Butler into Kwame and then Kwame into Gasol and they got their all star.

[baseline bum]

In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Vince Carter trade:

New Jersey sent Alonzo Mourning (who refused to report), Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and 2 1st round picks to Toronto.

Toronto sent Vince Carter to New Jersey.

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

Carter forced his way out and no one wanted to give comparable talent for a whiner who quit on his team.


In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Rasheed Wallace trade.

Detroit gave up: Lindsay Hunter, Bobby Sura, Zeljko Rebraca, Chris Mills to Boston and Atlanta

Detroit Acquired Rasheed Wallace and Mike James

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

No one wanted to gamble on Rasheed; he was viewed as a cancer by a lot of GMs.


In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Ray Allen trade:

Boston sent: Wally Sczerbiak, Delonte West and Jeff Green to Seattle
Boston acquired Ray Allen

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

Jeff Green is a first-rate talent. It was a great trade for Seattle/OKC.


In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Marcus Camby trade:

Clippers sent: 2nd round pick (if lower than Denver) to Denver
Clippers acquired: Marcus Camby and Denver's 2nd round pick (if higher)

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

Camby is old, sucks, and is a huge cap albatross. Funny that Denver's defense drastically improves once the DPOY leaves town.


In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Caron Butler trade:

LA sent Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins to Washington
LA acquired Kwame Brown

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

That trade was just stupid, but the Lakers had these grand ideas that Brown was an A+ talent that was just in a bad situation.


In spirit of bitterness that is so celebrated on this board, let's become bitter together about ALL lopsided trades in NBA. Even if the 2 teams involved had moved on from it, who cares right?

I present to you the Elton Brand trade:

Clippers sent Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner to Chicago
Clippers acquired Elton Brand

Is this trade fair or lopsided?
Let the bitterness commence!
And don't forget the mandatory "Kobe is a rapist" gig. A thread wouldn't be complete without it.

Jerry Krause was smitten with the idea of Eddy Curry and Chandler becoming the next Duncan & Robinson. A lot of experts had Chandler pegged as another Garnett.


The Lakers sent to Memphis:
A rookie Center who just dropped 12 and 7
Javaris Crittenton who is better than Jordan Farmar
Capspace worth nearly 13 million which Memphis almost turned to Josh Smith at the beginning of this season (Atlanta had regretted their decision of matching it now).

The Lakers acquired: Pau Gasol, who apparently have never won a single playoff game as the 1st option. I mean, god dang it, Vince Carter and Rasheed Wallace won more playoff game than this dude and they got traded for even worse garbage.

The trade was never that lopsided in the first place. Memphis fans are pretty happy about it. They're looking to get good FA this offseason with the ginormous cap space the Lakers had given them.

The Lakers fans are happy about it
Memphis fans are happy about it

Other fans scream "murder!"

Pao Gasol, an allstar bigman in his prime, dealt for nobodies in a hush hush manner to keep other teams from making better offers. Memphis only got a $9M expiring in Brown and a so-so bigman who doesn't have a lot of potential to improve in Fat Gasol. Crittendon's a complete scrub PG on a team that was loaded with scrub PGs.

[chubster]

Pao Gasol, an allstar bigman in his prime
Yes, let's glorify a player who was labelled "soft" by his own fans and had never led his team to a single win in any playoff series while at the same time making max money.

dealt for nobodies in a hush hush manner
Peter Vecsey enthusiast, huh? Stupidity breeds stupidity, I guess.

keep other teams from making better offers.
I kept asking what teams can provide Memphis with better salary relief than the Lakers while at the same time giving up 2 1st round draft pick and I have yet to hear it from you guys.

You kept shaking your fist to the sky while screaming "conspiracy" have provided no real alternative on what Memphis could've done.

Bitterness at it's best.

Memphis only got a $9M expiring in Brown
Bzzt, it's actually close to 11M because of Mckie's contract.

a so-so bigman who doesn't have a lot of potential to improve in Fat Gasol
Nostradamus, are we? Would you say Brook Lopez and Kevin Love were so-so big men? Look at their numbers and compare it with Gasol's. Hey, even one of the poster admitted that he would want Gasol starting for the Spurs. Sounds like double standard to me.

Crittendon's a complete scrub PG on a team that was loaded with scrub PGs.
Lakers fans prefer him than Jordan Farmar and he was being acquired as back up for Mike Conley anyway who was posting great numbers a few months before last season ended. He was supposed to be a role player.

It's funny how anyone have the gall to justify Rasheed Wallace, Elton Brand and Vince Carter trade but keep clinging to the conspiracy theory when it comes to Gasol. Those players, at the time they were traded were better players than Gasol and they were traded for even less assets.

Where were the bitter fans asking for those GM's head when that happened?

Bitter and stupid, that's what you conspiracy theorists are.

[chubster]

The way I view the Gasol trade is the Lakers finally getting equal value for Shaq. They traded arguable the most dominant big in the game at the time for not even one all star, that's lame. You trade Shaq you should get one all star back, Lamar is a nice player, but no all star. So they turned Butler into Kwame and then Kwame into Gasol and they got their all star.
Don't you know? When the Lakers are the one that's getting raped on a deal, all is fine in the world. But when they acquire something good like Ariza and Gasol, it must be conspiracies.

And the comedic value lies on the fact that the ones screaming for conspiracy were not the fans of the Lakers' trading partners but rather other fans who are bitter about it.

[baseline bum]

Nostradamus, are we? Would you say Brook Lopez and Kevin Love were so-so big men? Look at their numbers and compare it with Gasol's. Hey, even one of the poster admitted that he would want Gasol starting for the Spurs. Sounds like double standard to me.


Kevin Love and Brook Lopez are 21.



Lakers fans prefer him than Jordan Farmar and he was being acquired as back up for Mike Conley anyway who was posting great numbers a few months before last season ended. He was supposed to be a role player.


Crittendon was crap. Laker fans were stupid for liking him.



It's funny how anyone have the gall to justify Rasheed Wallace, Elton Brand and Vince Carter trade but keep clinging to the conspiracy theory when it comes to Gasol. Those players, at the time they were traded were better players than Gasol and they were traded for even less assets.


Gasol wasn't a league pariah like Wallace (think Iverson by the end of this season), Marc Gasol was never projected as the next Garnett like Chandler was, and Pao Gasol never quit on his team and faked injuries like Carter did in Toronto.

[chubster]

Kevin Love and Brook Lopez are 21.

So? Are you saying big men stop improving at 24?
Brook Lopez is a stud and if the Lakers had a talent like him, they wouldn't need to do the Gasol trade in the first place.

Crittendon was crap. Laker fans were stupid for liking him.

That's what they say about Ariza, Powell, Luke Walton and Shannon Brown. Without those guys, the Lakers were not winning the championship.

Let Mitch Kupchak be the talent evaluator, ok? You just stay bitter and stupid.

Gasol wasn't a league pariah like Wallace (think Iverson by the end of this season), Marc Gasol was never projected as the next Garnett like Chandler was, and Pao Gasol never quit on his team and faked injuries like Carter did in Toronto.
Oh? Suddenly we stop judging the trade by talent alone and start getting into the personality of those players? What kind of reputation Pau Gasol has build in Memphis during his tenure that pissed his fans to the point that they were asking him to be traded?

Don't believe me?
Read this article;
http://www.sportsfrog.com/2007/01/22/pau-gasol-demands-trade/


“Privately, the organization is growing dissatisfied with the effort Gasol has brought to work. The perception is that Gasol’s lackadaisical defensive and rebounding performances coupled with inconsistent offense are by design to emphasize his desire for a trade. Asked his thoughts on the team’s direction, Gasol sounded concerned. ‘I don’t really know the direction of the franchise,’ he said before adding that he ultimately wants to play for a winner.”
Yeah, keep using Rasheed Wallace and Vince Carter's personality as the reason that their trade was fair.
And who cares if Chandler was rumored to be the next Garnett? Gerald Green was rumored to be the next T-mac but I don't see GMs fawning over him. When John Paxson is a retarded talent evaluator, you can't place the blame on "hype" and justify it as giving Elton Brand, an MVP candidate at one point in his career, away for nothing.

[timvp]

lol sportsfrog

[chubster]

lol sportsfrog
Peter Vecsey?

[baseline bum]

Let Mitch Kupchak be the talent evaluator, ok? You just stay bitter and stupid.


You got both covered pretty well, so I'll leave them for you. Kupchack did a great job evaluating Kwame. :lol



Oh? Suddenly we stop judging the trade by talent alone and start getting into the personality of those players? What kind of reputation Pau Gasol has build in Memphis during his tenure that pissed his fans to the point that they were asking him to be traded?

Don't believe me?
Read this article;
http://www.sportsfrog.com/2007/01/22/pau-gasol-demands-trade/


Yeah, keep using Rasheed Wallace and Vince Carter's personality as the reason that their trade was fair.


It's obvious there wasn't a lot of demand for either of them because they were both widely viewed as huge cancers. Carter's reputation around the league was exactly what Iverson's is right now.



And who cares if Chandler was rumored to be the next Garnett? Gerald Green was rumored to be the next T-mac but I don't see GMs fawning over him. When John Paxson is a retarded talent evaluator, you can't place the blame on "hype" and justify it as giving Elton Brand, an MVP candidate at one point in his career, away for nothing.

Gerald Green might have been called the next TMac by idiot fans like you, but scouts and GMs had Chandler as the next KG. That's not giving Brand away for nothing. That's trading Brand because your GM sincerely believed it was worth the gamble for the guy who was supposed to be an NBA star. No one has ever had Marc Gasol pegged as anything but a rotation player.

[chubster]

You got both covered pretty well, so I'll leave them for you. Kupchack did a great job evaluating Kwame. :lol

He screwed up on that one and one the Shaq trade. I won't even deny that.

It's obvious there wasn't a lot of demand for either of them because they were both widely viewed as huge cancers. Carter's reputation around the league was exactly what Iverson's is right now.
Carter's reputation around the league is irrelevant. The fact that Rob Babcock was fired after such a trade was testament enough on how pissed Raptors fans and owners at him on the blunder. But as a Raptor fan, I can guarantee you that we never saw him as a "cancer". Quiter, big baby and lazy, yes but a cancer like stephon Marbury, he was not.

scouts and GMs had Chandler as the next KG.
Proof it.

No one has ever had Marc Gasol pegged as anything but a rotation player.
Proof it.

[baseline bum]

Carter's reputation around the league is irrelevant. The fact that Rob Babcock was fired after such a trade was testament enough on how pissed Raptors fans and owners at him on the blunder. But as a Raptor fan, I can guarantee you that we never saw him as a "cancer". Quiter, big baby and lazy, yes but a cancer like stephon Marbury, he was not.


LOL, so you just admitted to being a bandwagon Laker fan? :lmao

[YellowFever]

Now you've gone and done it chubster.

You were talking facts and they were talking opinions and they got you talking opinions now.

LoL.

Nice read, guy.

But give it up.

They're going to believe what their heart tells them to believe.

Edit: see the post before mine as proof.

[chubster]

LOL, so you just admitted to being a bandwagon Laker fan? :lmao
I'm a fan of both team. I got my fav team as Raptors but the mod here changed it to LA.

[baseline bum]

Now you've gone and done it chubster.

You were talking facts and they were talking opinions and they got you talking opinions now.

LoL.

Nice read, guy.

But give it up.

They're going to believe what their heart tells them to believe.

Edit: see the post before mine as proof.

So you're also on the Gasol was a pariah like Iverson, Carter, Rasheed bandwagon too?

[chubster]

So you're also on the Gasol was a pariah like Iverson, Carter, Rasheed bandwagon too?
There were never such bandwagon. You created that to justify your bitterness.

[monosylab1k]

Proof it.

Proof it.

I generally avoid spelling smack.....but....well.....this is Lakerfan we're talking about....





































:lmao

[monosylab1k]

Proof it rofl

[MiamiHeat]

b

[Trainwreck2100]

Brand wasn't being offered anything from the Clips. He was RFA but he didn't want to sign anything less than the max so the Bulls did the S&T with the Clips who had salary cap to absorb Brand's contract without giving back equal salaries in return. But here's the catch; The Bulls could let him become an unrestricted FA and still not worry about losing him for nothing. Why? Because like I said before, he wanted nothing less than the max and the Bulls could offer him more max than any other team because of his bird rights. Other than that, the Bulls held all the aces.


Again, The Bulls held all the leverages. All teams do, actually. Why do you think The Cavs had no problem letting Anderson Varejao become an UFA? s.


he didn't become a UFA if he was a UFA he would be playing for the bulls right now


That's what happened with Elton Brand. They had no problem whatsoever letting Brand become UFA but then the Clips came knocking with Chandler and Skinner to offer. They took it, even when they held all the leverages with Brand. Why do you think they did that? They must have liked what they saw at that time.

If you think RFAs are ever in a position to hold a franchise hostage, you must be one gullible mf-er.

Brand wouldn't have been a UFA he was restricted and agreed to a max deal with the Clippers, if he didn't sign with the Bulls for the max+bird he would have still signed with the Clips for the max. Brand was leaving regardless, they could have let him walk, he would have had less money, but still the max, and they would come away with nothing.


The only thing Brand had as leverage was if he became disgruntled for an entire season due to not signing an extension.

That's not what would have happened because he would sign an offer sheet with the clips for the max, then the bulls wouldn't match then he would be a clipper

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I would have gladly discussed and argued but you lack basic knowledge of how NBA deals work, CBA and you're illiterate to boot.

Congrats on your title, I see it's not as sweet when tons of people pop up and become extremely defensive over the collusion, in fact I'm sure some of you really think you actually got screwed right? So nothing to argue here. I don't see any Spurs fans starting threads about this 'deal' , only Laker fans. Get over it, 28 other teams already have.

[chubster]

Brand was leaving regardless, they could have let him walk, he would have had less money, but still the max, and they would come away with nothing.

And that was the point I was trying to make all along. The Bulls still had all the leverages when it came to Brand. Had they not been so high on Chandler, they would just call Brand's bluff because signing and trading him when he was a RFA or when he was an UFA made no difference whatsoever to the Bulls.
You think Brand's going to just sign with the Clips knowing full well that he'd have more money with a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted? Not in a million years.
Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing. That player must have to personally despise his old team's management to take less money just to leave them with nothing.

That's not what would have happened because he would sign an offer sheet with the clips for the max, then the bulls wouldn't match then he would be a clipper
Brand wouldn't signed the offer sheet knowing the Bulls could offer more. Even when he's planning to walk from them, he still would insist on a sign and trade because he gets more money that way. Actually if Brand had signed the offer sheet, he would be helping the Bulls by offering his service for less money (because they will definitely match it). That has never happened except for ring chasers.

Let's just make this simple rather than arguing back and forth on Brand's intention. John Paxson got a pass for making a gamble on Tyson Chandler but Chris Wallace was crucified for making a gamble on Marc Gasol (who hd proven that he's light years ahead of a rookie Chandler) and 11M worth of cap space.

How the fuck did that happen?

[chubster]

I don't see any Spurs fans starting threads about this 'deal' , only Laker fans.
I made this thread to bait those who are still bitter about the Gasol trade and therefore consider Lakers' 15th title to be illegitimate.

Seeing how many replied, I say you must be fucking blind.

[Trainwreck2100]

they would just call Brand's bluff because signing and trading him when he was a RFA or when he was an UFA made no difference whatsoever to the Bulls.

it would actually make a whole season's difference


And that was the point I was trying to make all along. The Bulls still had all the leverages when it came to Brand. Had they not been so high on Chandler,
You think Brand's going to just sign with the Clips knowing full well that he'd have more money with a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted? Not in a million years.
Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing. That player must have to personally despise his old team's management to take less money just to leave them with nothing.

Brand wouldn't signed the offer sheet knowing the Bulls could offer more. Even when he's planning to walk from them, he still would insist on a sign and trade because he gets more money that way. Actually if Brand had signed the offer sheet, he would be helping the Bulls by offering his service for less money (because they will definitely match it). That has never happened except for ring chasers.

Let's just make this simple rather than arguing back and forth on Brand's intention.

How the fuck did that happen?

Brand was leaving regardless, to the other team. the Bulls didn't need to give him a sign and trade. Brands leaving and all the leverage they had were his bird rights, essentially they traded Brand's bird rights (cause he was eaving anyway) for chandler. Yes he could get more money from the Bulls but they were never going to keep him to begin with. They got something back for paying nothing

John Paxson got a pass for making a gamble on Tyson Chandler but Chris Wallace was crucified for making a gamble on Marc Gasol (who hd proven that he's light years ahead of a rookie Chandler) and 11M worth of cap space.


I wasn't aware that Pau was a FA and was going to leave regardless.

Gms don't get crucified for sign and trades because their player was already leaving the next season.

[Trainwreck2100]

I made this thread to bait those who are still bitter about the Gasol trade and therefore consider Lakers' 15th title to be illegitimate.

Seeing how many replied, I say you must be fucking blind.

OMFG 8 Spurs fans replied 1 of them was to tell you your threads were being merged. The Spur fan with the most posts, me is trying to explain to you the difference between RFA and UFA since you don't mr "when the cavs let anderson varejao become an UFA"

[chubster]

Brand was leaving regardless, to the other team. the Bulls didn't need to give him a sign and trade.


Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing.

I wasn't aware that Pau was a FA and was going to leave regardless.

Neither was Brand. He was going to leave because the Bulls didn't want to pay him not because he was a RFA. Had the Bulls offered him the sign and trade when he's an UFA a year later, he would've taken it in a heartbeat because the other alternative was signing with another team for less money.

Same thing happened with Gasol. The decision was purely financial.

OMFG 8 Spurs fans replied 1 of them was to tell you your threads were being merged. The Spur fan with the most posts, me is trying to explain to you the difference between RFA and UFA since you don't mr "when the cavs let anderson varejao become an UFA"
Obviously I've been paying attention to the general consensus on this board has when it comes to the Gasol trade. The response I got from this trade just confirms that my observation was right.

"Collusion", "conspiracy", "gift", "hush hush", not just in this thread but in others.

The reason why you keep arguing about Brand's intention was a direct result of not accepting the Gasol trade as fair anyway.

[Trainwreck2100]

Neither was Brand. He was going to leave because the Bulls didn't want to pay him not because he was a RFA. Had the Bulls offered him the sign and trade when he's an UFA a year later, he would've taken it in a heartbeat because the other alternative was signing with another team for less money.



That would have never happened he would have been in a Clippers uniform when the Bulls didn't match the offer made when he was a RFA. You seem to have this crazy idea that teams can block RFAs from leaving, by telling them they can;t go, that's not what was meant by restricted. The only way a team can block a player leaving is by matching offers.



Obviously I've been paying attention to the general consensus on this board has when it comes to the Gasol trade. The response I got from this trade just confirms that my observation was right

No you don't understand how RFA works, if you did, then you would know that once Brand agreed in principle to the terms the clips offered he was gone. The Bulls would have lost their best player with nothing in return. So rather then get nothing they got tyson chandler, and tyson chandler>nothing.

[chubster]

That would have never happened he would have been in a Clippers uniform when the Bulls didn't match the offer made when he was a RFA.


Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing.

You seem to have this crazy idea that teams can block RFAs from leaving, by telling them they can;t go, that's not what was meant by restricted. The only way a team can block a player leaving is by matching offers.

And you have this crazy idea that Brand would actually signed the offer sheet when he's getting less money from the Clips. Was-not-going-to-happen.

The Bulls would have lost their best player with nothing in return. So rather then get nothing they got tyson chandler, and tyson chandler>nothing.
Let say we live in a fantasy world where Brand would actually signed the offer sheet and played for the Clips for less money.
Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner were the best Paxson could get for him? Really? Not even draft picks?

Let's call a spade a spade, ok? The Bulls got raped on that deal.

[Trainwreck2100]

And you have this crazy idea that Brand would actually signed the offer sheet when he's getting less money from the Clips. Was-not-going-to-happen.


Let's call a spade a spade, ok? The Bulls got raped on that deal.

Brand was going to get payed the max by the Clips, the bulls weren't going to pay him the max. If the bulls were going to pay him the max they would have agreed to match the Clips offer. That's how RFA work. He would have got the max from the clips anyway THE MAX. He was going to be gone the next season, and he would be making MAX money. The bulls weren't going to pay the max, the bulls wouldn't match. He was signed to the max to be traded. If the Bulls didn't agree to the S&T Brand would have left anyway WITH A MAX CONTRACT and the Bulls would be left with nobody.


Let say we live in a fantasy world where Brand would actually signed the offer sheet and played for the Clips for less money.
Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner were the best Paxson could get for him? Really? Not even draft picks?


No because in this fantasy world he's already on the clippers, why would the clippers trade for a player that's already on their team.

[chubster]

Brand was going to get payed the max by the Clips, the bulls weren't going to pay him the max. If the bulls were going to pay him the max they would have agreed to match the Clips offer.

Brand didn't sign anything with the Clips, how can the Bulls match?

He would have got the max from the clips anyway THE MAX
Not as much as THE MAX he would get from signing with the Bulls.

If the Bulls didn't agree to the S&T Brand would have left anyway WITH A MAX CONTRACT
No he wouldn't. He wouldn't sign with the Clips for less money. It's either pay him and keep him long term or sign and trade him. There's no 3rd option which was to sign with the Clips directly.

And this is the 3rd time I posted this;

Name me one player who chose to sign with another team outright when the team who had his bird right offered him a sign and trade even when he was unrestricted. No such thing.

No because in this fantasy world he's already on the clippers, why would the clippers trade for a player that's already on their team.
Way to step it up another notch, man. That's fantasy on crack.

[chubster]

Well, I'm off on a family vacation for the next 3 days. Before I leave, I'll just leave those who think the Elton Brand's trade was fair with this to think about:

Joe Johnson trade.

He was RFA like Brand was.
traded for Boris Diaw who was better than Tyson Chandler.
and 2 first round draft pick from Atlanta who was a bottom dweller.

Up untill this day, there are few Suns fans who bemoan that trade as a bad move even when they got more than what the Bulls got for Brand.

Oh, and I should mention Brand (at the time he was traded)>>>>>>JJ (at the time he was traded).

Think about that and say with a straight face, "Yes, the Elton Brand trade was fair."

[chubster]

Should I do a revisit on the Jefferson trade?

If either Oberto, Thomas or Bowen are waived and return to the Spurs, I think most of the fans here should never utter the words "conspiracy", "collusion" and "hush hush manner" ever again when it comes to the Gasol trade.