Timmy actually got some Recognition!!

[antgomez2009]

Mark (LA)

Is Kobe top 10 now?
John Hollinger

All-time? It's still a tough list to crack. For instance, just looking at contemporaries -- Shaq cleary outranks him, and you still have to rank Tim Duncan ahead of him too (four championships, top dog for all four, won without another All-Star in '03); it's really a battle for third with him and Garnett. Then you get into all the old-timers and the list fills up awfully fast. I'm comfortable with top 15, but top 10 is really crowded and I'm not sure he's in yet, or if he'll ever be.


:flag:

Timmy aint done yet!! ya digg!

[mytespurs]

Kobe Bryant is a top 10 player in my book. And I would rank him in the upper level of the 10 even though his career is still going strong. He may yet tie or even surpass Jordan in terms of championships.

I wouldn't say he's the best ever......I don't like using "best ever" because to me it dismisses those great players who have come before and may come after him......but he's definitely one of the best players in the NBA history.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would have been surprised if Hollinger didn't rank Duncan like he said..

Duncan's PER rankings have always been very good in a yearly comparison, and Hollinger is a stat-geek, so he actually takes stats and accolades/accomplishments into consideration..when you look at all that, there isn't any argument against Duncan being in the top 10, especially when you look at his defensive impact..

[duncan228]

It doesn't matter to me who says it or how they base it, it's always nice to hear Duncan get his due. He's one of the all-time greats. :toast

[Behrooz24]

lol, Garnett!? Nga please!

[Galileo]

Mark (LA)

Is Kobe top 10 now?
John Hollinger

All-time? It's still a tough list to crack. For instance, just looking at contemporaries -- Shaq cleary outranks him, and you still have to rank Tim Duncan ahead of him too (four championships, top dog for all four, won without another All-Star in '03); it's really a battle for third with him and Garnett. Then you get into all the old-timers and the list fills up awfully fast. I'm comfortable with top 15, but top 10 is really crowded and I'm not sure he's in yet, or if he'll ever be.


:flag:

Timmy aint done yet!! ya digg!

Kobe is 10th at best.

These players exceed him:

MJ
Jabbar
Magic
Russell
Duncan
Bird
Cousy
Shaq
Wilt

Equal

Havlicek
Karl Malone
West
Pettit

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL Bob Cousy is nowhere near Kobe or any of the great modern players..

[barbacoataco]

I thought Kobe's performance this playoffs was a little under-whelming. He is surrounded by tons of talent. The Lakers have to be the most talented team. Gasol was the 7-ft presence that most teams have needed to win a championship. Without Gasol this Laker team is just another borderline playoff team. Odom played better than anyone expected. Derek Fisher hit some big shots. I'm not sure why these playoffs move Kobe up in the alltime lists. Is he better than Clyde Drexler? If you switched Clyde and Kobe and put him on the 2009 Lakers do they still win a championship? I think yes.

[Sean Cagney]

LOL Bob Cousy is nowhere near Kobe or any of the great modern players..

Oscar Robertson >>>>> Cousy.

[Thomas82]

Oscar Robertson >>>>> Cousy.

Oscar Robertson is arguably the best PG of all-time.

[jcrod]

I don't get all the hate for Kobe. He's top ten and he's not done. Shaq, please, he has no skill all bulk and running over people. Not top ten.

[Taking it to the Hole]

I don't get all the hate for Kobe. He's top ten and he's not done. Shaq, please, he has no skill all bulk and running over people. Not top ten.

I would still rank Shaq ahead of Kobe based on the fact that Shaq won with a less talented team and a often banged up D. Wade. Kobe had everything go right for him personally this year and he had a very talented team as a safety net. Yeah, Kobe will probably win 1 or 2 more, but I don't think he will ever get out of the shadow of Shaq or even Tim.

[Thomas82]

I don't get all the hate for Kobe. He's top ten and he's not done. Shaq, please, he has no skill all bulk and running over people. Not top ten.

I wouldn't put Kobe in the top ten yet.

[ambchang]

It's just laughable how people all of a sudden is talking about Kobe in the top 10 now that he has won a Finals MVP. This is clearly black&white thinking, with no regard of surrounding circumstances.

Over his career, his statistics were inferior to those of Shaq and Duncan, he has less individual accolades, he won 1 championship as the top dog, and as the second banana in the other 3. There really is no comparison.

This is similar to all the Garnett > Duncan last year after the Celtics won last year. Just pure idiocy.

[Thomas82]

it's just laughable how people all of a sudden is talking about kobe in the top 10 now that he has won a finals mvp. This is clearly black&white thinking, with no regard of surrounding circumstances.

Over his career, his statistics were inferior to those of shaq and duncan, he has less individual accolades, he won 1 championship as the top dog, and as the second banana in the other 3. There really is no comparison.

This is similar to all the garnett > duncan last year after the celtics won last year. Just pure idiocy.

+1

[SpursWench21]

I honestly think Kobe will end no better than top 15 of all time. I just dont feel that hes close enough to all-aroundness that Tim and Shaq brought to their teams, but thats just MHO. If he woulda become a Lebron or Jordan and passed alot more/fascilitated (and in doing so, adding that to his great shooting skills and DOMINATING all around) when he was young, I think he would be top 10 already even before this latest title. If he would have started as a team player/a supporter of sharing the #1 spot with Shaq and shown it on the court (he def. had the skills to do so) instead of talking and helping destroy the relationship, I think the Shaq/Kobe duo could have easily been the best surpassing MJ/pippen, Magic/Kareem, Bird/mchale, etc....

If i were considered a top 10 player of all time because I was part of the best duo of all time and (hypothetically) won 2 or 3 more rings sharing the glory with the big Shaqtus, I think i would be way more content (instead of how its faired for Kobe so far doing his thing individually), but thats just me.

BUT, to me, the fact that Kobe has always been all about Kobe, wanting to shoot the ball WAY TOO MUCH (sorry, not a big fan of volume shooters), and from the beginning wanting to be bigger than MJ (which there will never be another, sorry Lebron), he could have easily been considered a top 10 player and possibly the 2nd or 3rd best shooting guard ever. Instead, he chose his path and tried to out do MJ and become the best of the best of the best...and imo this was his ultimate downfall.

Lots and lots of NBA fans (except Spurs fans and peeps that respect Tim) dont realize how RIDICULOUS Tim's scoring stats would be these last 10 years had he played like Kobe and instead of getting 25 a game getting 35 a game....but ill take timmy's career averages and his overall team-first mentality (sharing with tp and manu, drob, etc etc) over kobes play ANY DAY. THATS what separates Tim Duncan from the rest....AND hes not done yet!!

In the end, though, Kobe will probably be considered top 10 by most analysts...why...because hes kobe. But, to me, whoever considers him better than Tim or Shaq is off.

...:flag:

[Yuixafun]

Faulting Kobe for wanting to be better than MJ is silly. You should actually admire that type of ambition. How many of you have the heart and self belief to go after a dream like that..?

If someone puts in all this work individually, spends countless hours and immense effort to improve his game year in and year out... why should they have to dampen their ability because some Fat Slob who was physically gifted wanted all the shine. Let that man ball like he can.

Kobe doesn't sign paychecks, ultimate decision to let go of Shaq was the Lakers FO. Maybe they got tired of Shaq missing so many games 'injured' and sitting on his laurels during the off season, not putting in work or conditioning. And he wants to be the top dog on the team. You want the leader of the team to be that nonchalant and flippant about the game? You ever see TD come in out of shape? Shaq was much as fault for the L.A fallout.


As far as Kobe, rank him when he's done. He's that classic tragic figure. When you get to a certain level of skill, that power can make you arrogant, because you know how good you are and never know if the people around you are that committed. Even if you started out everything they wanted you to be, people in the end will find reasons to hate you. It's lonely being on top.

[SpursWench21]

I didnt say it was ALL Kobes fault, not at all. In fact, those two lit the fuse that blew up a "potentially legendary duo" together. This is my thinking... Shaq is monster of a center that loves the spotlight and loves to entertain...Kobe is that intelligent and very (as you put it) ambitious competitor...Both are close to or at the top of their game. Now, what if Kobe decided to be the bigger badass and go up to Shaq and say, "listen big man, i wanna be great, but in order to be great, we have to do this together, and if that means leaving you as the #1 guy then so be it..ill stay a close 2nd, but know this! Together....we can be great...we can win more than 3 rings...we cant let those '03 Championship Spurs get us down..hehe..if WE stick together...and dominate like we always have and win 5 or 6 rings...we can be better than great. TOGETHER, we can be the most legendary Little/big man Duo this league has ever and will ever see...but we gotta learn to live together." and vice versa for Shaq.

Just my theory on how Kobe would and could have won me over....just my opinion. Ugh, frustrates me thinking about it...glad I root for the silver and black!

Good defense for Kobe, though, I guess i never really thought of him as a tragic figure...interesting and well put.

[Galileo]

LOL Bob Cousy is nowhere near Kobe or any of the great modern players..

That's baloney. Cousy is a lot better than John Stockton, who compares well with Kobe.

Cousy is a better scorer than Stockton, and is the best dribbler in NBA history.

Cousy makes your team better, Kobe doesn't.

[polandprzem]

That's baloney. Cousy is a lot better than John Stockton, who compares well with Kobe.

Cousy is a better scorer than Stockton, and is the best dribbler in NBA history.

Cousy makes your team better, Kobe doesn't.

Cousy WAS one of the best dribblers back then. Now many kids on the backyard can do stuff Bob was doing

[Yuixafun]

Just my theory on how Kobe would and could have won me over....just my opinion. Ugh, frustrates me thinking about it...glad I root for the silver and black!

Good defense for Kobe, though, I guess i never really thought of him as a tragic figure...interesting and well put.

I understand where you are coming from. Thankfully for the rest of the league, Shaq and Kobe were not able to, or willing to be a complimentary player to the other for longer than the 3-peat.

I've never been too big on Kobe... right before Fisher hit that .4 shot, they had a close up of Kobe showing his reaction and I was jabbing him with an imaginary dagger vigorously. At that time I felt like he had way too much hubris (and still does).

But as years go by we grow, mature, get humbled, stop looking at things with a child's mind. Experience in your own life, struggles that you go through, change your perspective. Some things that I used to waste energy and emotion on, now when I look back, was just a silly waste of time.

I'm not defending Kobe. It's that you can learn from everyone, when you stop looking for flaws and see the beauty underneath. Too many people are trapped in their bodies and tired immature ways of thinking, dying with every breath, instead of breathing in the universe.

Why would you want to choose to live in a world that is constantly diminishing when you can wake up everyday to limitless possibilities.

But haters keep on keeping on, and while you concentrate on your ability to tear the good things down life gives you, stronger spirits and wills keep growing, and maybe one day we will help you see.

[jcrod]

I would still rank Shaq ahead of Kobe based on the fact that Shaq won with a less talented team and a often banged up D. Wade. Kobe had everything go right for him personally this year and he had a very talented team as a safety net. Yeah, Kobe will probably win 1 or 2 more, but I don't think he will ever get out of the shadow of Shaq or even Tim.

Are you shitting me, D. Wade was the reason they won, not Shaq. I bet you didn't even watch one game. Also as dominate as Shaq was with the Lakers, it was always Kobe putting the game away. Kobe is the one who always killed the spurs.

[Thomas82]

Are you shitting me, D. Wade was the reason they won, not Shaq. I bet you didn't even watch one game. Also as dominate as Shaq was with the Lakers, it was always Kobe putting the game away. Kobe is the one who always killed the spurs.

+1
D. Wade carried that team on his back that year.